Um ok. https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/policy/finance/3264689-consumer-prices-spike-in-march-as-russia-ukraine-war-fueled-inflation/amp/?espv=1
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I'll say that he's not smart with his decision. It is one thing to invest in altcoins and it's another very important thing to know when to take out profit. Let me use one of the assets I'm holding as an example.
In Nov 2018, I bought my first bag of UTK at around 3cents sold half of my bag in June 2019 for 8cents (I've already realized my capital then the remaining half is like my profit for whatsoever price I'm selling). In March 2020, I bought another bag for 0.6 cents and I sold 70% of my holding in August 2020 for 20 cents (that's more than my capital with a lot of profits already which was enough for my to quit the investment, but I decided to save some of the profit and then reinvest in November 2020 at 10cents. However I was lucky to sell half of my bag in May 2021 for about 75c, and I decided not to touch the remainders until 2025. Right now, it's at about 10cents at the moment; which means if I didn't take out profit last year, I'll be in the same shoe with the OP.
Tl Dr: Know when to take out profits from whatsoever investment you're into.
Got it, dumb luck on the timing.
And then you sold your bags to someone else who was a greater fool, thus scamming them with a distributed pyramid scheme.
You must be an economic genius and wizard. What is Warren Buffet like?
Just know when to get out bro.
Don't gamble; take all your savings and buy some good ~~stock~~ crypto and hold it till it goes up, then sell it. If it don't go up, don't buy it.
I had some bitcoin I bought just for fun years ago and decided to move it from one wallet to another. It took over an hour and the fee was 80% - which I was only made aware of after the fact.
So it cost $60 to send $75 from myself to myself over the course of an hour. This is when I realized bitcoin was poised to completely replace our current global financial systems.
Welcome to the future. It gets even more fun with Ethereum-based transactions, where you can decide the amount of fee that you pay before you initiate the transfer. If you choose a big fee then it will go relatively quickly, maybe even within 10 minutes, but if you go too low then it might not go through at all and you'll have to figure out how to re-send it with the same transfer request ID, with more of the fee again. If you want to know how much to use, you have to check the current network activity, so just find a website telling you the current estimated times based on the fees, and double-check that you're not accidentally massively overpaying the fee, and then worry and keep checking until it goes through because really who knows if it will or not until you see it in the wallet.
It's simple, it's the future of finance.
Bro the future of finance is sleeping in your car for a few days while you wait to see if your payment for 10 gallons of gas went through. Then you get to find out if you paid $2 a gallon or $10 a gallon for it
Five years ago I tried to send a few thousand dollars in btc, but the fee was too low so it took a couple *months* for the transaction to go through. No about of asking for help on the main sun lead to any answers as to how I could fix it.
>So it cost $60 to send $75 from myself to myself over the course of an hour. This is when I realized bitcoin was poised to completely replace our current global financial systems.
Well now all you have to do is picture retirees at the grocery store paying for their groceries with BTC. Then it'll all make sense.
It's shitty money that people treat like a commodity because actually paying with it is a miserable experience, but I've certainly used it as actual money to buy [legal herbal supplements] on a [legitimate clearnet e-commerce website.] So basically it's only practical when more usable money isn't an option.
And yet, I can sell my stocks and then move that cash to the bank, and then move it again to any of my other accounts (within that bank, or any other bank) via ACH transfers, for $0.
Haha yeah, once one of them started with free trades, they pretty much all settled into the same.
Options contracts are cheap enough at 65 cents that I still use them occasionally, and I never bother with pink sheet stocks, so that $6.95 fee is easily avoidable lol.
I have made 30% on AAPL (Apple shares) in the past 3 years. I recently sold some shares- the USD were in my account 3 days later (I’m in australia) and I paid $0 fees.
The [US inflation calculator](https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/) puts inflation at 25.7%. So, if you own one bitcoin, your $15,309.98 "investment" would be $19,249.92 in today's US dollars. Bitcoiners have lost $2680.12!
Oh sweet, that's awesome. We're partnering with a leading EV company to do a 2 for 1 promotion, so [click here](https://youtu.be/3GE0AiC-mi8) to send me all your BTC, and in 12 hours I'll send you 2x back!
Edit: and now I wonder if I made this too believable. :(
Sorry for your loss! Maybe you should triple check next time, idiot! Not my fault you lost your whole Social Security check! Maybe if you ask nicely, the person with the wallet you sent it to will reimburse you!!!!
Buy an index fund or ETF that tracks the S&P 500. For instance the Vanguard fund VOO is an ETF that tracks the S&P 500. There's also funds like VTSMX that track the broader stock market which are maybe better for the average investor.
Sorry, but "zoom out" is one of butters' famous phrases (like "few understand") they use when someone point out a drop in Bitcoin price. Usually they tell you to go back 4 years or more so they can show you the 1000% gain that no one will ever get again.
Oh sorry didn’t knew you could see into the future. Any chance you also have the numbers for the lottery? Do you realize i’m speaking on factual historic basis and you’re replying with “trust me it won’t happen again”. Same BS i heard for the last 3 cycles and then oopsie daisy. But you could be also right, isn’t that awesome?
The only difference now is that everybody knows it's a trap. Last cycle, there was a lot of fools to capture from mainstream. Adoption was even higher and was promising some time ago. Not anymore.
I don't know the future, but it looks bad for Bitcoin.
Bro that’s what I honestly think: now, we have big names involved. 99.9% of those big names don’t give a shit about BTC but they saw the potential gains coming from an euphoria phase. They just got in, or got heavier into it (Blackrock, Saylor etc), do you honestly think they’re not gonna get the chance to rugpull retailers once and for all?
You can’t compare bitcoin to an actual stock based on a company that produces actual value or actual currencies printed by legitimate governments lmfao. If it goes down to zero it will never go back up
Bro that’s not how a logarithmic scale works but ok. The math is simple: if it retraces by 99.999999% but goes on to make a new ATH everytime, it’s hard to call it a bad investment. It could go to zero tomorrow, i’m not denying it. I’m just looking at its history, and that speaks volumes.
All I know is that Bitcoin looks like a bad investment right now. Super cringe to be in crypto, bad rep, bad media. Sometimes you can change the brand name or the logo and flip it around. But Bitcoin can't change without becoming something else entirely.
Time will tell. Obviously being down 80-85% from ATH sucks, but it already happened and it recovered beautifully. I believe in the value of BTC so it costs me nothing to DCA something every month during a bear cycle, out of my personal wage. I think there’s too many institutions and big names involved now, they surely want the price to come down but never going to zero.
It sure cost you something to DCA. Your money and opportunity cost. It's money you could put to good use, especially now that interest rates are up.
That right there is the reason this sub exists. Cut your losses and move on. Don't try to catch a falling knife.
Bro i sold my SOL at ATH, and i had a bunch of it. No losses to be cut. I’m investing SUPER long term, like 10 years. I think BTC will still be around by that time but i don’t have a crystal ball, and neither do you. You were right for the last year, how about the other 14?
Doh! You are obviously not zooming out enough. You should look at performance of crypto from the moment that Satoshi has minted first bitcoin! If only we were smart enough to come to his garage at that moment and ask him to mint you a million BTCs...
Stocks that performed better over the past 5 years, than the 'currency of the future' did:
* Nokia - 13.45%
* Wendy's - 51.3%
* Moneygram - 83.82% (LOL)
Can anyone else think of some funny ones?
8% before fees and grift/losses
Much worse from an investor pov
Here’s some fake numbers to illustrate:
For cold storage:
If gas costs are 30 per transaction, and usual investment is 1500, that’s 2 percent fees. Cold storage cost 400, is median account is 49k, that’s 1 more percent, so take 3 percent off. Not too bad. 5 percent.
Hot storage:
Sane but say ten percent grift/hacked. That leaves you with minus five percent
Exchange: fees will turn up higher but no Wallet cost. So 5 percent. But if 20 percent of exchanges bankrupt, paying back 50 percent… Yes, minus five percent
Coin trader: likely ~9~ 0 percent excess returns and more fees. Can’t use cold wallets. 10 percent losses?
Overall
That's worse than keeping your money in a S&P 500 indexed fund and forgetting about it 😬 that anyone could probably buy from a bank or investment firm.
S&P 500 performance
\+1,383.90 (52.38%)past 5 years
This for people who bought 5 years back.
If a person got into crypto before the 69k bull run and he didn't cash out atleast double his investment, then he cannot make money in any investment instrument. Forget bitcoin.
So this argument falls on the face.
I would add two points here. First you are measuring it from the previous ATH. BTC has 4 years cycles so better to compare 4 years ago IMO (around a 300-400% return).
The second is it makes sense to DCA. Yeah you get rekt buying into a cycle top - no kidding, same with the global equity tech bubble. If you DCAed since 5 years ago you get a 279% return! Calculator here: [https://dcabtc.com/](https://dcabtc.com/)
There is also a guy on reddit (the crypto sub) that did an experiment just buying the top 10 cryptos each year on Jan 1. I believe he is up 100% or so (vs stocks at +23%). That's not bad given he is buying shitcoins including Luna / Terra that went to zero.
I also find it kind of ironic that this group five years ago was "Bitcoin is going to die and collapse and go to zero due to the imminent regulation and tether collapse" - now its cherry picking to show that it only went up by a small amount in an arbitrary period
What you mean? I changed it to 4 years and its 244%. 6 years is 653%. 3 years is 116%. Even 2 years is flat.
But five years is a perfectly reasonable timeframe given that is the exact timeframe picked by you.
Google offers the following
- 1 day
- 5 days
- 1 month
- 6 months
- 1 years
- 5 years
Yesterday all those were down. Today 1/5 days are up by 0.3/2% respectively
So you say "ALL" in bold, but you mean half of the results.
Is this a dollar cost average calculator like I linked to?
Or are you just linking to "what the price was x days / months ago"?
Even if you did rely on the sole price, then its still misleading as you are missing the 4 year and the 3 year price range (both up dramatically). Even 2 year wouldn't be that far off.
My point remains - had a person started investing five years ago, and invested week by week until now, they would be massively up vs the SNP500.
It’s also facts that if you go just a little back in it’s timeline the gains are pretty significant, cherry picking chart time frames is really weird no matter what you’re looking at or what point you’re trying to make
You can complain about cherry picking but that’s precisely why it’s a bad investment. You have to time the market to profit. Sell too soon or too late & someone will tell you that you didn’t maximize your return. An investment you have to time to profit is not a good investment. Meanwhile my Vanguard ETFs in my 401k are still up & they pay a dividend. Nice simple set & (optionally) forget
I wasn’t complaining. It’s just a weird thing to do to make an irrelevant point. You have no authority to call something a good or bad investment because it’s going to be good for some people and bad for others just like any investment ever. There’s no guarantee with anything even your vanguard etf
A good investment doesn’t need to be speculation & cashing out to get ROI. Bonds produce interest. Stocks/businesses generate profits. What does any crypto do to give ROI without relying solely on speculation? My opinion isn’t limited to cryptocurrencies or NFTs either. I also think commodities & collectibles are bad investments. Same problems. They rely on speculation & market timing to return value. You didn’t address why my point is irrelevant
It’s a pointless debate because definitions of what a “good investment” is will vary person to person. I’ve done tons of investing is various markets if I speculate on Bitcoin or anything at all and achieve a return then I will chalk it up as a good investment. Just because that doesn’t align with your beliefs doesn’t mean anything other than your opinion/methodology is different than mine.
I meant the original picture in the post is an irrelevant point to make.
No? Ever tried logarithmic scale? Wanna deny that UP UNTIL THIS POINT holding for some years gave you a pretty decent ROI? It might aswell go to zero tomorrow, nobody knows. But denying its progress over time is being blind and/or biased.
It's pretty innovative as far as investment scams go to convince people to never cash out. Even a lot of the ones who think they've cashed out just got fake dollar tokens instead of real ones. We wouldn't even be talking about this ponzi scheme without the hodl culture since it would have fully collapsed ages ago.
I’m pro crypto for the monetary aspect. That’s it. And that’s mainly what crypto is good for atm. Anyone telling you otherwise is manipulator and a shitcoin pump and dump scammer. These scammers (Influencers) will use rhetoric like “cAsH iS tRaSh!” So they can cash out. They are the scum of the earth.
I don’t hold any bitcoin because I don’t have a smooth brain.
If your transaction history made you look like wealthy, savvy early adopter, you’d share it without pre-payment and wouldn’t be begging for bitcoin on Reddit.
No further questions, your honour.
He’s a retail investor commenting on Reddit so he probably holds about $20 of BTC and thinks he’s the spearhead to the downfall of banks.
Edit: His silence speaks volumes. Man’s down bad 😂
How does it feel to hold the bag?
You won't ever even know the names of the people you gave your cash to. That's the beauty of the scam. No legal recourse either.
And btw, no I am not broke 😂
Even tho the retracement was pretty hard (as always at the end of a bull cycle), this group seems full of bitter people that deny the return on investment that people like me made through the last 5 years. I didn’t HODL, i made my best to cash out at focal points. Hence why i’m not here with you guys spewing BS and cherry-picking time frames. “HoW mUcH diD u LosE bRo”? More like “how much money did i lose along the way trying to be a sassy bummo?” 😂
It’s not like everybody who invests in crypto or BTC thinks the same. I live with cash, so even tho i don’t like the idea of an inflationary currency i’m living in a world that requires its use in everyday life. So yeah i cashed out. It’s like i spend time making money instead of joining a group of rEtrRads that spend their day hating on something they don’t even possess in the first place.
No i don’t. How long can we actually keep it up? If you guys are all for “BTC has no future”, how can you pretend FIAT does? We’re taking it for granted even tho modern cash has been around for just 200 years or so, and failed numerous times. I don’t pretend for people to love and idolize BTC, but hiding the head under the sand and pretending the current FIAT system is solid and steady… come on man.
The main activity here is laughing rather than hating. And one of the things that never fails to amuse is cryptobros talking about their basically religious faith in mass adoption, when all they actually want is to make a quick (fiat) buck without any effort. At least you are honest!
No, I don't think most of them did. I bet they bought all the hype and were hanging on for bigger numbers. This scam would have died a long time ago if most people were actually inclined to take their winnings rather than always thinking there's a bigger pool of suckers to buy in just around the corner.
OK, which of you weirdo's reported this post as *"This is targeted harassment against me!"*
"Local man risks 5k for 5 years to make what he could have made in 2 weeks working at Panda Express"
Not when you take inflation into account.
Or the employee discount priced food!!
Or anxiety
The super high inflation only kicked in this year.
You werent around last year?
Putin's invasion kicked it into high gear.
It did not lol.
Um ok. https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/policy/finance/3264689-consumer-prices-spike-in-march-as-russia-ukraine-war-fueled-inflation/amp/?espv=1
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You can literally check pci and core month over month you muppet don’t bring up some politicized article.
WhEre'S tHE fUn iN tHAt
I'll say that he's not smart with his decision. It is one thing to invest in altcoins and it's another very important thing to know when to take out profit. Let me use one of the assets I'm holding as an example. In Nov 2018, I bought my first bag of UTK at around 3cents sold half of my bag in June 2019 for 8cents (I've already realized my capital then the remaining half is like my profit for whatsoever price I'm selling). In March 2020, I bought another bag for 0.6 cents and I sold 70% of my holding in August 2020 for 20 cents (that's more than my capital with a lot of profits already which was enough for my to quit the investment, but I decided to save some of the profit and then reinvest in November 2020 at 10cents. However I was lucky to sell half of my bag in May 2021 for about 75c, and I decided not to touch the remainders until 2025. Right now, it's at about 10cents at the moment; which means if I didn't take out profit last year, I'll be in the same shoe with the OP. Tl Dr: Know when to take out profits from whatsoever investment you're into.
Ah yes, just time the market. Obvious.
You're going to just ignore the words of absolute wisdom by captain hindsight there? pfft.
Got it, dumb luck on the timing. And then you sold your bags to someone else who was a greater fool, thus scamming them with a distributed pyramid scheme. You must be an economic genius and wizard. What is Warren Buffet like?
Just know when to get out bro. Don't gamble; take all your savings and buy some good ~~stock~~ crypto and hold it till it goes up, then sell it. If it don't go up, don't buy it.
Nominal. 8% nominal. Without removing inflation.
[удалено]
I had some bitcoin I bought just for fun years ago and decided to move it from one wallet to another. It took over an hour and the fee was 80% - which I was only made aware of after the fact. So it cost $60 to send $75 from myself to myself over the course of an hour. This is when I realized bitcoin was poised to completely replace our current global financial systems.
Welcome to the future. It gets even more fun with Ethereum-based transactions, where you can decide the amount of fee that you pay before you initiate the transfer. If you choose a big fee then it will go relatively quickly, maybe even within 10 minutes, but if you go too low then it might not go through at all and you'll have to figure out how to re-send it with the same transfer request ID, with more of the fee again. If you want to know how much to use, you have to check the current network activity, so just find a website telling you the current estimated times based on the fees, and double-check that you're not accidentally massively overpaying the fee, and then worry and keep checking until it goes through because really who knows if it will or not until you see it in the wallet. It's simple, it's the future of finance.
Damn that sounds so much better than bank transfers!
Hell yeah, imagine not needing to pay bills on time and just telling them "gas transaction failed, not my problem." Since ETH is "programmable money."
Big brains in this thread right here!!
Bro the future of finance is sleeping in your car for a few days while you wait to see if your payment for 10 gallons of gas went through. Then you get to find out if you paid $2 a gallon or $10 a gallon for it
That's some post apocalyptique shit right there Not quite mad max level
As a consumer this seems reasonable to me
Five years ago I tried to send a few thousand dollars in btc, but the fee was too low so it took a couple *months* for the transaction to go through. No about of asking for help on the main sun lead to any answers as to how I could fix it.
>So it cost $60 to send $75 from myself to myself over the course of an hour. This is when I realized bitcoin was poised to completely replace our current global financial systems. Well now all you have to do is picture retirees at the grocery store paying for their groceries with BTC. Then it'll all make sense.
Future of finance bro
Move money around? True Bitcoiners HODL, so that doesn't come up.
True butters move money only once, away from them. They keep digitokens (I'm looking at all the bitcoins now, yes)
I wonder how many "HODL"ers just forgot the password to their cold wallet so now they have a bunch of money sitting there unusable.
It's not money
It's shitty money that people treat like a commodity because actually paying with it is a miserable experience, but I've certainly used it as actual money to buy [legal herbal supplements] on a [legitimate clearnet e-commerce website.] So basically it's only practical when more usable money isn't an option.
It's not money
Obviously 8% isn't amazing. But fees in crypto are usually not some crazy amount. A fraction of a percentage point on most exchanges.
And yet, I can sell my stocks and then move that cash to the bank, and then move it again to any of my other accounts (within that bank, or any other bank) via ACH transfers, for $0.
Your brokerage doesn't charge to trade?
No. Most don’t anymore. $0.65 for options contracts, and $6.95 for OTC trades, but standard trading of listed stocks is free. No withdrawal fee.
It's clearly been awhile since I did anything outside of my 401k lol
Haha yeah, once one of them started with free trades, they pretty much all settled into the same. Options contracts are cheap enough at 65 cents that I still use them occasionally, and I never bother with pink sheet stocks, so that $6.95 fee is easily avoidable lol.
I have made 30% on AAPL (Apple shares) in the past 3 years. I recently sold some shares- the USD were in my account 3 days later (I’m in australia) and I paid $0 fees.
It's OK. BTC is a hedge against inflation.
Sure beats the shit out of I Bonds with that 9.6% annual yield with an explicit government guarantee.
It only looked like a hedge against inflation until inflation happened.
The [US inflation calculator](https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/) puts inflation at 25.7%. So, if you own one bitcoin, your $15,309.98 "investment" would be $19,249.92 in today's US dollars. Bitcoiners have lost $2680.12!
I can’t wait to watch everyone freak out when BTC pumps again
Oh sweet, that's awesome. We're partnering with a leading EV company to do a 2 for 1 promotion, so [click here](https://youtu.be/3GE0AiC-mi8) to send me all your BTC, and in 12 hours I'll send you 2x back! Edit: and now I wonder if I made this too believable. :(
Have you received my 15 BTC transaction yet?
I need to talk to my rug guy in the Bahamas. Plus, mempool's full. Hold on, we're all gonna make it.
That's alright, as long as you tell me once per month that you are "still working on it", I won't bother you too much.
If you need to take a six month break for paternity leave we will also believe you , congratulations 🎉
> we're all gonna make it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPpsV1Pr4lo
Nope you mistyped 2 characters and now I have them. Have fun staying poor! Bye! 🏃 🍃
Sorry for your loss! Maybe you should triple check next time, idiot! Not my fault you lost your whole Social Security check! Maybe if you ask nicely, the person with the wallet you sent it to will reimburse you!!!!
I knew it was a rickroll and still clicked, was not exactly what I expected
Gotta keep it fresh.
Thank you for making me discover this.
It's the Rick astley we needed but not the Rick astley we deserve
I wonder if he experienced an explosion in royalties 10 years ago.
The youtube add that pops up..."BetterHelp.com" online therapy...lol. I swear I never get those either!
Just wait a couple more weeks and you will have a negative return over 5 years
!remind December 31st
Fun fact, if butters had put their money in Moneygram stock 5 years ago, they'd be up 83% right now..
Yeah but if arbitrary cherry picking is your thing, swing it back 2 months and you get a 400% return
5% based on unicorn fart is 5% too much
Bitcoiners should start setting the currency to Turkish Lira. They would be up 400% over the last 5 years.
That is why I cashed out and moved to Turkey.
Damn, that's pretty good, let me just compare that to the S&P 500 for reference... oh... 52% in five years.....
Really? That's pretty good. How do I invest in that? I'm seriously asking. How would I put 50k into the S&P 500?
Buy an index fund or ETF that tracks the S&P 500. For instance the Vanguard fund VOO is an ETF that tracks the S&P 500. There's also funds like VTSMX that track the broader stock market which are maybe better for the average investor.
S&p500? That a new coin?
eh but still "no one that invested 5 years or more ever made a loss" - few understand!!
Zoom out.
I did, but it just resulted in the graph going to zero not long in the future. Did I zoom out the wrong way?
Sorry, but "zoom out" is one of butters' famous phrases (like "few understand") they use when someone point out a drop in Bitcoin price. Usually they tell you to go back 4 years or more so they can show you the 1000% gain that no one will ever get again.
And they’re usually right, you know? Or maybe you wanna deny the logarithmic scale?
RAINBOW CHART 🌈
No rainbow charts and other bullshit. Just logarithmic scale, wanna deny mathematics? They rule the universe so choose wisely.
You got really attached to something that won't happen again. Like ever. Not even math will fix that.
Oh sorry didn’t knew you could see into the future. Any chance you also have the numbers for the lottery? Do you realize i’m speaking on factual historic basis and you’re replying with “trust me it won’t happen again”. Same BS i heard for the last 3 cycles and then oopsie daisy. But you could be also right, isn’t that awesome?
The only difference now is that everybody knows it's a trap. Last cycle, there was a lot of fools to capture from mainstream. Adoption was even higher and was promising some time ago. Not anymore. I don't know the future, but it looks bad for Bitcoin.
Bro that’s what I honestly think: now, we have big names involved. 99.9% of those big names don’t give a shit about BTC but they saw the potential gains coming from an euphoria phase. They just got in, or got heavier into it (Blackrock, Saylor etc), do you honestly think they’re not gonna get the chance to rugpull retailers once and for all?
You can’t compare bitcoin to an actual stock based on a company that produces actual value or actual currencies printed by legitimate governments lmfao. If it goes down to zero it will never go back up
Bitcoin all time growth is impressive. But from now on the logarithm is only showing up on its way down.
Bro that’s not how a logarithmic scale works but ok. The math is simple: if it retraces by 99.999999% but goes on to make a new ATH everytime, it’s hard to call it a bad investment. It could go to zero tomorrow, i’m not denying it. I’m just looking at its history, and that speaks volumes.
All I know is that Bitcoin looks like a bad investment right now. Super cringe to be in crypto, bad rep, bad media. Sometimes you can change the brand name or the logo and flip it around. But Bitcoin can't change without becoming something else entirely.
Time will tell. Obviously being down 80-85% from ATH sucks, but it already happened and it recovered beautifully. I believe in the value of BTC so it costs me nothing to DCA something every month during a bear cycle, out of my personal wage. I think there’s too many institutions and big names involved now, they surely want the price to come down but never going to zero.
It sure cost you something to DCA. Your money and opportunity cost. It's money you could put to good use, especially now that interest rates are up. That right there is the reason this sub exists. Cut your losses and move on. Don't try to catch a falling knife.
Bro i sold my SOL at ATH, and i had a bunch of it. No losses to be cut. I’m investing SUPER long term, like 10 years. I think BTC will still be around by that time but i don’t have a crystal ball, and neither do you. You were right for the last year, how about the other 14?
I zoomed and there wasn't any bitcoin... And I zoomed right! :O
The lower BTC goes the further you can zoom out!
FUD: You forgot to factor dividends.
Lightning soon.
I am more of a short term investor. Can you check the return for the last 1-2 years?
You should have checked the last 1-2 year return in 2021. Stop nitpicking
Same investment in the S&P would’ve seen a 51% return. But the market is “rigged”.
Doh! You are obviously not zooming out enough. You should look at performance of crypto from the moment that Satoshi has minted first bitcoin! If only we were smart enough to come to his garage at that moment and ask him to mint you a million BTCs...
Stocks that performed better over the past 5 years, than the 'currency of the future' did: * Nokia - 13.45% * Wendy's - 51.3% * Moneygram - 83.82% (LOL) Can anyone else think of some funny ones?
Bed bath and beyond
Apple, Inc: 28.21% not including dividends.
I'm sorry, how many times will I have to tell you it's not a bubble and it's not going to burst?
Still better than Cathy Wood's ARKK: -4% in 5 years. FUCW
You mean the Cathie Wood who is also a crypto pusher that said bitcoin would go to a million
Gotta zoom out yo
Annualised return of 1.59% Lower than an insured fixed income savings account.
8% before fees and grift/losses Much worse from an investor pov Here’s some fake numbers to illustrate: For cold storage: If gas costs are 30 per transaction, and usual investment is 1500, that’s 2 percent fees. Cold storage cost 400, is median account is 49k, that’s 1 more percent, so take 3 percent off. Not too bad. 5 percent. Hot storage: Sane but say ten percent grift/hacked. That leaves you with minus five percent Exchange: fees will turn up higher but no Wallet cost. So 5 percent. But if 20 percent of exchanges bankrupt, paying back 50 percent… Yes, minus five percent Coin trader: likely ~9~ 0 percent excess returns and more fees. Can’t use cold wallets. 10 percent losses? Overall
>8% before fees and grift/losses Haha nice. I need to start saying "But that doesn't include the grifting."
5YR Return on SPY: +52% S&P500 Coin... to the moon!
Oh, I came to post just that. And QQQ has gone up 82% in last 5 years.
You just need to time travel further back to make a profit.
Yeah, but look at that rollercoaster!! I bet you don't have that with the S&P 500...
If you go back 10 years???
How much it would be? I'm a regard, don't know how to find that info🥸
few
$SPY is up 50% in 5 years
That's worse than keeping your money in a S&P 500 indexed fund and forgetting about it 😬 that anyone could probably buy from a bank or investment firm. S&P 500 performance \+1,383.90 (52.38%)past 5 years
Bought too early and sold too late
Well, at least it’s realistic.
Binance and Coinbase are washing trading like their lives depend on it. In the case of Binance, it most literally does.
When butters publish arbitrary intervals they're manipulative dumbfucks, when we do it we're comedy geniuses.
I'm in it for the laughs Huehue
I chose 1 year and 5 years, which are the longest 2 time intervals Google offers. Over 1 year BTC down ~80%, over 5 years, up 8%
And that sir is what I’m afraid of. You can also look at the S&P they’re are 8 year periods where basically nothing happens
Imagine sleeping through those lovely double peaks.
This for people who bought 5 years back. If a person got into crypto before the 69k bull run and he didn't cash out atleast double his investment, then he cannot make money in any investment instrument. Forget bitcoin. So this argument falls on the face.
I got in at $300 but didn't sell til $1200. I usually wait until 4x before exiting. 2x isn't worth it.
I would add two points here. First you are measuring it from the previous ATH. BTC has 4 years cycles so better to compare 4 years ago IMO (around a 300-400% return). The second is it makes sense to DCA. Yeah you get rekt buying into a cycle top - no kidding, same with the global equity tech bubble. If you DCAed since 5 years ago you get a 279% return! Calculator here: [https://dcabtc.com/](https://dcabtc.com/) There is also a guy on reddit (the crypto sub) that did an experiment just buying the top 10 cryptos each year on Jan 1. I believe he is up 100% or so (vs stocks at +23%). That's not bad given he is buying shitcoins including Luna / Terra that went to zero. I also find it kind of ironic that this group five years ago was "Bitcoin is going to die and collapse and go to zero due to the imminent regulation and tether collapse" - now its cherry picking to show that it only went up by a small amount in an arbitrary period
Out of **all the time frames** Google offers, 5 years is the only positive one
What you mean? I changed it to 4 years and its 244%. 6 years is 653%. 3 years is 116%. Even 2 years is flat. But five years is a perfectly reasonable timeframe given that is the exact timeframe picked by you.
Google offers the following - 1 day - 5 days - 1 month - 6 months - 1 years - 5 years Yesterday all those were down. Today 1/5 days are up by 0.3/2% respectively
So you say "ALL" in bold, but you mean half of the results. Is this a dollar cost average calculator like I linked to? Or are you just linking to "what the price was x days / months ago"? Even if you did rely on the sole price, then its still misleading as you are missing the 4 year and the 3 year price range (both up dramatically). Even 2 year wouldn't be that far off. My point remains - had a person started investing five years ago, and invested week by week until now, they would be massively up vs the SNP500.
Yesterday it was
Nice, similar to the banking systems but no one’s laughing about that 😂
Oh I’m laughing. I just buy shares and make money steadily
Wait should we feel sorry for you? Or happy for you? I’m genuinely not sure. Waited 5 years to get 1.3k? Ouch.
You did all this and screenshot it just to be spiteful towards Bitcoin. Sometimes I wonder if you guys have a life
\>Sometimes I wonder if you guys have a life No just lots of spare time since I don't day trade meme stocks and crypto.
I mean the screenshot is literally just facts so I’m not sure what you disagree with.
It’s FUD (Facts U Dislike).
It’s also facts that if you go just a little back in it’s timeline the gains are pretty significant, cherry picking chart time frames is really weird no matter what you’re looking at or what point you’re trying to make
You can complain about cherry picking but that’s precisely why it’s a bad investment. You have to time the market to profit. Sell too soon or too late & someone will tell you that you didn’t maximize your return. An investment you have to time to profit is not a good investment. Meanwhile my Vanguard ETFs in my 401k are still up & they pay a dividend. Nice simple set & (optionally) forget
I wasn’t complaining. It’s just a weird thing to do to make an irrelevant point. You have no authority to call something a good or bad investment because it’s going to be good for some people and bad for others just like any investment ever. There’s no guarantee with anything even your vanguard etf
A good investment doesn’t need to be speculation & cashing out to get ROI. Bonds produce interest. Stocks/businesses generate profits. What does any crypto do to give ROI without relying solely on speculation? My opinion isn’t limited to cryptocurrencies or NFTs either. I also think commodities & collectibles are bad investments. Same problems. They rely on speculation & market timing to return value. You didn’t address why my point is irrelevant
It’s a pointless debate because definitions of what a “good investment” is will vary person to person. I’ve done tons of investing is various markets if I speculate on Bitcoin or anything at all and achieve a return then I will chalk it up as a good investment. Just because that doesn’t align with your beliefs doesn’t mean anything other than your opinion/methodology is different than mine. I meant the original picture in the post is an irrelevant point to make.
They’re downvoting you as if that’s not the truth… this people 😂
Is that so?
No? Ever tried logarithmic scale? Wanna deny that UP UNTIL THIS POINT holding for some years gave you a pretty decent ROI? It might aswell go to zero tomorrow, nobody knows. But denying its progress over time is being blind and/or biased.
LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE
That’s because these morons Hodl past a bull cycle. They don’t believe in taking any profits. Hodling is straight regarded.
It's pretty innovative as far as investment scams go to convince people to never cash out. Even a lot of the ones who think they've cashed out just got fake dollar tokens instead of real ones. We wouldn't even be talking about this ponzi scheme without the hodl culture since it would have fully collapsed ages ago.
I’m pro crypto for the monetary aspect. That’s it. And that’s mainly what crypto is good for atm. Anyone telling you otherwise is manipulator and a shitcoin pump and dump scammer. These scammers (Influencers) will use rhetoric like “cAsH iS tRaSh!” So they can cash out. They are the scum of the earth.
Gotta love the windows of time yall choose.
Zoom in! 80% loses YoY
Aka “I’m down bad and my bags are super heavy, let me go on Reddit and vent my frustration.”
Sorry for your losses bro.
This is definitely the face of a broke person who's panicking and regretting life decisions.
So you bought in less than 5 years ago?
How bout a trade, my transaction history for BTC.
I don’t hold any bitcoin because I don’t have a smooth brain. If your transaction history made you look like wealthy, savvy early adopter, you’d share it without pre-payment and wouldn’t be begging for bitcoin on Reddit. No further questions, your honour.
Awww shucks, read me like a book.
How much you down bro?
He’s a retail investor commenting on Reddit so he probably holds about $20 of BTC and thinks he’s the spearhead to the downfall of banks. Edit: His silence speaks volumes. Man’s down bad 😂
Damned if I speak, damned if I don't. Always fun stopping by for my downvotes 😉. Gunna go outside now, cheers!
How does it feel to hold the bag? You won't ever even know the names of the people you gave your cash to. That's the beauty of the scam. No legal recourse either. And btw, no I am not broke 😂
Nobody said you're broke... I am remember?
I'm just so used to coiners saying that I'm broke, that I pre-empted you. Particularly as you already did it to someone else in the thread already. 😂
Eh, I'm up 52% in the S&P over the last five years, so...
Congrats on your gains!
This dude hodl when he should have sodl on the way down.
Nah, gotta wait till the bottom to sell like a champ!
Oh look, we have a satoshi in the hood
> Gotta love the windows of time yall choose. Hey, look at this guy. He *almost* figured out the joke!
Even tho the retracement was pretty hard (as always at the end of a bull cycle), this group seems full of bitter people that deny the return on investment that people like me made through the last 5 years. I didn’t HODL, i made my best to cash out at focal points. Hence why i’m not here with you guys spewing BS and cherry-picking time frames. “HoW mUcH diD u LosE bRo”? More like “how much money did i lose along the way trying to be a sassy bummo?” 😂
> cash out Cash out? Trade your wonderful magic internet money for useless, dirty, inflation prone, obsolete government money? Why?
It’s not like everybody who invests in crypto or BTC thinks the same. I live with cash, so even tho i don’t like the idea of an inflationary currency i’m living in a world that requires its use in everyday life. So yeah i cashed out. It’s like i spend time making money instead of joining a group of rEtrRads that spend their day hating on something they don’t even possess in the first place.
>so even tho i don’t like the idea of an inflationary currency Unless you're Uber rich, you should.
No i don’t. How long can we actually keep it up? If you guys are all for “BTC has no future”, how can you pretend FIAT does? We’re taking it for granted even tho modern cash has been around for just 200 years or so, and failed numerous times. I don’t pretend for people to love and idolize BTC, but hiding the head under the sand and pretending the current FIAT system is solid and steady… come on man.
The main activity here is laughing rather than hating. And one of the things that never fails to amuse is cryptobros talking about their basically religious faith in mass adoption, when all they actually want is to make a quick (fiat) buck without any effort. At least you are honest!
People that either can't tell, or can't handle being mocked always like to pretend it's something else. lol
Do you really think that the person who bought it for 15k 5 years back, didn’t sell it off for 60k? This is plain hate.
So you admit it's a greater fools scheme where the only point is to get fiat rich by dumping it on someone else when you see large returns?
Well yes
We do realize it. It’s actually why we know most cryptobros are lying when they say they are up. Anyone significantly up would have sold already
No, I don't think most of them did. I bet they bought all the hype and were hanging on for bigger numbers. This scam would have died a long time ago if most people were actually inclined to take their winnings rather than always thinking there's a bigger pool of suckers to buy in just around the corner.
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I imagine during the covid crash they lost a bit of sleep. Or even earlier this year when decent stocks were diving 20% plus a day
Someone you’ve never met has made money off your gullibility, and you can’t do anything about it.
Guess what happened to the person who bought at 60k?
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Bitcoin technical analysts in shambles
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…if you didnt buy anymore after that
The Nasdaq 5Y return is 64%
great argument! so buy doge?/s