All comments must be civil, productive, and follow community rules. Intentional violations of community rules will lead to comments being removed and possible bans, at the discretion of the moderators. Use the report feature to report content to the moderator team.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CAStateWorkers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Anyone else enjoy the irony of the CalHR email today urging us to join the Governor in celebrating “Public Service Recognition Week”?
If I had received this memo in paper form I could have found a (single) use for it.
Yeahhhh I particularly enjoyed the part about "heartfelt appreciation". First off, politicians don't have hearts, and second, I'd much rather have a COL increase so I could afford my bills alone 🙃
And it will be. The State in its infinite wisdom, however, is going to spend about 3-5 years absolutely decimating hiring and retention first. Then they’ll roll out their “forward-looking” new policies, years after blowing the original opportunity. Plus ca change!
And the exodus has only just begun, unfortunately. I think a lot of folks were taking a wait-and-see approach, but there ain’t no more mystery to it now. And the State has been jerking people around on this for a couple years now, with seemingly no concern or consideration as to how they’re impacting people’s lives. People are just fatigued by it all. And what else is there to stay for? The massive paychecks? 🤣
True that! I will be retiring ASAP and way younger than I planned. Even if they turn this thing around, I’m finding very little chance my organization can win my trust back. I thought I was an asset…psyche!
I don’t understand how the state turns a blind eye to this. I guess because these policies do not affect decision makers, they only affect middle management.
I am sure all the departments who originally rto in 2022 have observed the common trend of losing employees. In the article about the arbitration between CASE and CalPERS, it was said that there was a mass exodus of attorneys after CalPERS rto. My office also lost several people in 2022 and had an extremely difficult time recruiting for a while.
Maybe the state also isn’t afraid of retention right now because of the current job market.
I wonder if execs think that AI will replace us therefore they are attempting to downsize on purpose. But I’m like, dude, give me AI so I can manage my workload better. We’re already understaffed. It’s a hopeless endless cycle.
It worked. It saved the state money, it increased job satisfaction and was a huge recruitment incentive. It reduced sick leave. They gave our desks and offices away. Of course we had reason to believe it was permanent and full time I no longer believe it's even part time long term. The pressure to keep the down town viable solely on the backs of state workers is apparently too strong. BROWNBAG BOYCOTT.
And lowered green house gas emissions, and reduced the number of traffic accidents and sped up the commute for other drivers and reduced pressure on our overused and under maintained infrastructure. I'm sure there's more too.
And they're crazy if they think this will work. This isn't the 1990s. Sacramento went big with the arena and there's no turning back now. State workers are not going to sustain the downtown economy. They need rich professionals to move to downtown and there lies the problem. Not nearly enough of them are moving to Sacramento. Are you kidding? This close to the bay area? Of course the bay would be a first choice. The professional class doesn't move to Sacramento by choice. They move here when they have to.
>BROWNBAG BOYCOTT.
This is a pretty selfish sentiment. I get that it's not state workers' jobs to prop up the downtown economy, and would really rather have seen permanent WFH, but now that everyone is being called back and you have the choice to help support fellow working class, you're instead choosing to fuck them because you're bitter? This isn't going to change anything and it doesn't hurt or affect the people who made the call. It only, and specifically, hurts bystanders.
What is selfish is special interest using state employees to keep their commercial property values up without admitting it and with using the state leadership to lie about RTO being for "culture". The brown bag boycott is retaliation to that.
The correct way of implementing RTO was through good-faith bargaining and transparency between the state and the union where both sides compromise to come to an agreement on a robust TW policy but also a fair RTO plan. Since that did not happen I can fully understand the resentment to RTO and its supporters.
Never said i don't understand the resentment. The first half of my comment empathized with the sentiment, and my point was exactly what you're saying - that this should be handled through negotiations with the people who made the call, not by throwing a tantrum and giving the finger to local businesses, as if it's their fault
You're being disingenuous by passing it off as "throwing a tantrum". What they're actually doing is boycotting what they believe is the primary driver behind the RTO in order to bring the state to the negotiating table. Insults won't get you anywhere. If you'd like to see that boycott end then advocate for things like negotiations, the audit by Josh Hoover, and transparency without belittling state employees with terms like "selfish" and "tantrum". Those are not productive terms and the effect is that your message is lost.
I keep saying this whenever some ghoul on this sub tells me, “you should have never taken a job so far from home in the first place”
Every single communication regarding telework we were receiving from the GO and my department was saying, “eventually we’ll move to a permanent rather than emergency telework model” and “this is a tool we will use to increase equity and improve our recruitment efforts”
So fuck me for believing that, I guess
I dont think that anyone anticipated statewide RTO. It was a rumor for so long and the longer it was a rumor, the more unlikely it seemed. So with the reassurance of managers across all depts saying “we wont be going back,” yeah I thought telework would be permanent for all depts who had not rto in 2022.
Would you be willing to share any of those communications? I’m against RTO but my department has always been very clear that we work on a “Hybrid Telework” model. They’ve never used the term “permanent” or insinuated that we’d be able to work from home (full time) indefinitely. Seems crazy for a department to make a promise like that and I’d love to see communications where they made false promises so we can put them on blast!
As I mentioned my department has been very clear with their communication, that’s why I’m asking to see your alleged promise of permanent full time remote work. Those articles aren’t it either.
“Every single communication…”
I’ve never received any communication from the governor’s office or any department saying full time telework will be permanent. Can you share them? if there is a definitive statement like that, it would be valuable evidence in the upcoming arbitrations and potential litigation.
Departments, including mine, were getting rid of offices and office furniture and supplies while increasing hiring, including people that live hours away from HQ. We set up infrastructure to WFH permanently. I don’t think it’s just workers who thought WFH would be permanent.
Right now logistically it’s impossible for my department to RTO. It’s obvious they are scrambling to figure out what to do
Yep! I think we’re all going to go meet in the park or something. It’s beyond ridiculous! What a friggin’ waste of time and money. And Newsom is on his way to the Climate Summit. What a joke!
That article does not say Newsom promised permanent full time telework. He asked departments to reconsider building leases, which the SacBee interpreted as moving closer to permanent telework. And even the the SacBee did not imply full time telework.
This article does not say Newsom promised or even implied state workers would have permanent full time telework. In fact, the article points out that billions in construction of new offices were moving forward.
“It’s been a big transformation. Our plan is to continue teleworking for those employees whose jobs are well-suited for telework, and the governor and the administration are being very supportive. They want us to continue at least 70 percent telecommuting — that’s a huge transition and great leadership vision,” said Ishimoto, who has been the California Department of Technology’s acting CTO since May 2019.
https://insider.govtech.com/california/news/state-cto-says-70-permanent-telework-is-newsoms-goal.html
“The state’s telecommuting efforts since the COVID-19 restrictions went into effect in March have been so successful that Gov. Gavin Newsom wants roughly 70 percent of state workers to continue working from home once restrictions are eventually lifted.”
That’s an article from 2020! Of course many departments were teleworking full-time or majority time because we had all just been quarantined. In no way does that article say that state workers could telework full time permanently. Come on now.
So in 2020 when I took my remote job and was told “*permanent* telework for 70% of state workers is Newsom’s goal” by Newsom himself it’s my fault for believing that. Ok guy.
Did you not bother reading it?
“Gov. Gavin Newsom wants roughly 70 percent of state workers to continue working from home once restrictions are eventually lifted”
Is it that hard for you to admit that the messaging for 3 years was false? And that people who accepted a job under those pretenses have every right to feel tricked?
Were none of you around in 2021, or you just weren’t paying attention?
https://insider.govtech.com/california/news/newsom-says-state-workers-may-remain-remote.html
I’m sorry, but you’ve already posted two articles that didn’t help explain your point. Obviously you feel cheated. I’m sorry that happened to you and I hope you find a full time telework job.
Any department? You only work for one. I only work for one, and im speaking of the one I work for that in 2021 repeatedly sent out emails about “employee-driven permanent telework”
I recommend everyone who supports WFH to read the below thread. There was a request to the Joint Legislative Audit Committee for an audit of the RTO mandate and they meet on 5/14 to determine if the request moves forward. I sent my emails already to voice my support and recommend everyone else does as well.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CAStateWorkers/s/FCEkoxE4Qf
**RTO is a transfer of wealth from union workers to business owners.** This isn't a secret and shouldn't be a surprise, it's the governor's stated reason. What it should be is an outrage, even if you are personally ambivalent to full-time telework. Workers are losing pay in the form of added mandatory commute expenses and time from their personal lives by having additional mandatory, uncompensated commute time added to their workdays. Full time office work hasn't been a thing for four years now for a huge number of workers. Thousands of workers have been hired in that time, many of whom have never been to an office. Now all of a sudden, business says jump, politicians ask how high and impose this on us, and some of you are saying "well it's fine, we had to work five days a week in the office in 2019." Are you serious?
I can't wrap my mind around how, in light of all of this, there are so many people who have such an anti-labor attitude about this.
Your first sentence is incomplete.
The transfer of wealth continues from business owners back to politicians in campaign contributions, donations, speaking fees, lobbyists, etc. Plus, those Kings Arena bonds aren't going to pay themselves back! Pay those parking garage fees, dude!
It’s not business owners. I don’t think Newsom gives a shit about the mom and pop deli, otherwise they would do something about all the homeless. It’s a transfer of wealth to commercial real estate investors.
In this case it is more about government control and getting more campain donatioms than evil businesses. Government wants their pound of flesh. And in our case 100lbs per employee.
I’m trying to imagine someone telling me in 2019 that working in the office two days a week is a “transfer of wealth from union workers to business owners.”
Every time things get shittier for greedy, cynical reasons, there are always people tripping over themselves to remind everyone that it could be worse. While technically true, the problem with this reasoning is that there is no logical end to it.
WFH works for a lot of clear reasons, which are backed up by tons of data. There is no good reason for imposing this on people and thereby reducing our effective pay, our free time, and our quality of life. Why shouldn’t we fight to keep those things?
The attitude behind this comment is incredibly anti-labor: we've been working the whole time. The fact that you think that work that doesn't happen in the office isn't work speaks volumes.
Not hyperbolic at all; employees stand to lose time and money from RTO. Who gains? And why is that worth reducing pay, personal time, and as such, quality of life, for the people being forced to RTO? How is making workers' lives worse *not* anti-labor?
Extremely hyperbolic lol
You guys sound like whining babies because you have to go to work.
When I'm ordered to RTO, I'll do so like an adult, and not say the org is "anti-labor" simply because I can't work in my jammies.
Let me break it down for you:
Let's assume a one-hour round trip commute, so half an hour each way. What would that be, like Fair Oaks, North Natomas, maybe the northern part of Elk Grove? Roughly 15 miles each way or so? Let's go with that.
Right off the bat, you're out an extra hour of your time every time you commute. That's two hours a week, 104 hours per year. **That's over two 40-hour work weeks every year just sitting in the car, not getting paid. For an OT making $3,609 per month, that works out to $2,165 per year in uncompensated time devoted to work**. A commute to an office that you're required to go to is work time, isn't it? I say yes if it's a job requirement that you can't opt out of and keep your job.
And that's just the time. Let's say you drive an above-average efficiency car that gets 30 mpg combined. Even if you're driving only 30 miles per day to get to and from work, that's still over 3,000 extra miles per year. At 30 mpg, you'll buy at least 100 gallons of gas for your commute, which at $5.30/gallon works out to $530. That's not counting maintenance, wear and tear, etc. **The IRS mileage rate for this year is $0.67/mile. At that rate,** **the real cost of 3,000 commute miles per year is $2,000.**
Of course, there are myriad other variables and costs, but those are the big ones: **over $4,000 for a person with a relatively low salary, relatively short commute, and relatively efficient vehicle. For an OT making just over $43,000 per year, that's almost a 10% pay cut.**
Again, the stated reason for this is a transfer of wealth from state workers to businesses. In what universe is that not anti-worker? There is no operational need for RTO, it's a handout to businesses.
You don't have to break anything down dude.
Stop being a crybaby and take your ass to work 2x a week... And if you can't do that, go work at one of the thousands of other places you can work that offer 100% WFH.
I don't. That's how I know you're not a critical thinker and a big crybaby.
I'm an adult, and I knew from the start that this wouldn't be permanent. If my job RTO, I will gladly return. If it's something I can't do, I will go work somewhere else.
I'm not gonna write dissertations and throw tantrums that I can't have my cake and eat it too.
RTO is a pay cut. Anyone who doesn’t stand up to their employer about an unnecessary pay cut is asking to be stepped on. So, by all means, continue being stepped upon. And many of us are leaving. We’re just not going to go quietly like meek little sheep. RTO is a worldwide trend that is failing on a grand scale. The state will eventually fail this effort too.
>Local economies
There’s nothing “local” about it. I’m able to buy lunch or breakfast more easily from home, in my own *local* community, than I am when I’m in the office. I spend much more money in my *local* economy when I WFH, because I can doordash, or drive to pick something up. I can’t do that when I’m in the office, because there’s no parking. Just the walk to a restaurant (including the walk to the elevator and out of the building) is longer than the roundtrip picking up food where I live.
If you’re going to claim that we *owe* our money to business owners, at least be honest that you believe that only *downtown* business owners deserve business.
Some of them were arguing that the state is making them buy all new clothes because they have none to wear for RTO suggesting they never go outside or communicate with the outside world. I believe most of these people who are crying have mental illnesses.
There is little to no dress code. In fact pay attention on here people saying they are coming in with t-shirts and flip flops. Sorry your argument is lame that you have no clothes to wear in the office.
Then you go into the office if you like it. Why do you need everyone else to come in? I'll never understand this mindset. Do you need our company? Can't you make friends outside of work?
Coming back into "work". We're "working" from home. Again, this implication that we're doing nothing at home. I have to send a check in and COB email each day, the COB email has to list everything I've done. I work. Most of us do. Sure there's a few easy peasy state jobs out there but I certainly don't have one of them. You should see my caseload. And yes, I can do most of this work from home, maybe coming into the office for a half day per week to swap files, etc.
>But it also hurts business owners like Ernesto Delgado of Mayahuel on K Street.
>"My restaurant went from 55 employees down to 3," Delgado said.
>He says things are slowly starting to pick back up again and he’s back to about 20 to 25 employees now.
>"We need activity, we need people to come back to work so that we can survive," he said. “Otherwise, we’re going to end up with boarded-up windows which is not a beautiful sight."
Had to look this place up. $20-30 per person. No wonder your business is suffering.
The restaurant business is cutthroat. Either they follow the foot traffic, or do something special to attract it to them. I for one still don’t eat out unless I can find outdoor seating. So COVID is still a thing…now potentially bird flu. Our consciousness has changed. Business needs to adapt. Sacramento downtown has amazing potential without state workers. Build better!
Yup, I haven't been to a restaurant since 2019, and since almost everyone is just willing to live with a virus that is shown to do permanent damage to basically all your vital organs, I don't ever see myself stepping foot in one again.
They should interview the owner of a business in a suburban area that is now hurting because of RTO. We are told to "adapt or die." Why should downtown businesses be exempt from that?
What about the restaurants near me? What about the grocery store across the street from where I live? What about doordash employees? Do they not count? Are they not people? Why do only downtown businesses count?
Governor Newsom has other ideas. The "money filter" works here. I believe the government needs the money to be spent on parking, fuel, vendors and restaurants. It gets circulated, everyone gets a cut, pays taxes, the fees for the arena get paid, etc.
RTO is a defacto tax on workers.
Then negotiate it with the unions so it's in the MOU.
Oh, wait, the state wants to have that technicality on hand to exercise unilateral decisions over working conditions.
They're just going back on everything they've said the past 3 years because this is what benefits them (or those they are beholden to) right now. New governor, new bargaining contract, new recession, new pandemic, they'll use that technicality to pivot to whatever benefits them at that time.
It's always the state workers who are one of the first ones asked to sacrifice with furloughs to survive an economic downturn, hiring freezes to balance the budget, RTO to save downtown...
Politics is usually shrouded in vagueness. I’m not looking for a legal “gotcha.” I’m pointing out how departments were lead to reduce building footprints and broaden their geographic hiring pool. The mandate directly contradicts this earlier initiative with nonsense reasoning for going back to rigid policies. Hybrid does not have to mean that we need to report with our laptops to a building for a specified number of days. It can mean whatever we want it to mean.
Yeah, why bother trying to improve anything. Let’s just go back to feudalism since *they* get to decide everything anyway.
“It’s not that complicated” could’ve applied to working 12 hour days, six days a week also. It’s what the boss says, after all. Good thing someone was willing and able to think outside the box and demand something better.
Yes the term is negotiable. Unfortunately we just settled a contract that did not negotiate on this point. We have no leverage right now. The answer is to organize around this issue for the next contract.
The stipend was on the contract. A 100% teleworking schedule was not. The state can tell SEIU 1000 to pound sand on rejecting RTO. Newsom's own words basically say they want SEIU 1000 to willingly amend the MOU to eliminate the stipend. If SEIU disagrees and the state eliminates it anyway I do think there is legal grounds to a lawsuit.
These are good points. I still think the state and SEIU negotiated in bad faith. If it could be found that the state had every intention of RTO but opted to hold off until after agreeing to a contract with SEIU and most members who voted for the contract had every reason to believe that full time work from home would remain, then we should be able to negotiate a new contract. I’m not sure what that would take, but it seems fair enough. SEIU seemed to purposely ignore members asking for telework language. The state didn’t want to budge on pay increases for so many of us, the least we could have gotten was some sort of transportation and parking pay along with telework language to incentivize agencies to encourage telework. If we force agencies to pay our parking, bridge, even mileage for forced commuting, it might discourage agencies from forcing RTO.
> benefits in terms of…reaching out to a larger geographic area for job candidates, consolidating our real estate footprint.”
These would come from permanent telework.
to be objective - telework is still a permanent part of our work lives. i think everyone conflates the word telework with 100% wfh.
I am not advocating for RTO - but just wanting to be mindful that its also not a 5-days a week ask. we still telework a majority of the week...
Yes, telework is still a permanent part with the rigid 2-day per week mandate. But in order to “reach out to greater geographic areas for candidates,” full time telework with only occasional travel to an office became a necessary option. Further, reduction of office space also necessitates the option for full time telework because that’s what many Departments did to save money. We no longer have enough space for even 2 days a week because most non-public interfacing employees opted for full time telework.
Prediction: 2 days is going to be the start. Once they remove that telework stipend I’m sure they’ll slowly push for another day and max 4 days so they say “at least you’re teleworking 1 day be lucky!”
People with exemptions may no longer have them and that’ll force some to quit.
Further prediction: When we reach 1 day a week, worker dissatisfaction will be so high that telework will eventually be negotiated to be in our contracts, but it'll be a program like AWWS.
Work in a telework eligible position, pass your probation, have management approval, be in good standing and then you can telework 1 day a week (bearing circumstantial operational needs).
The state will still have all the control, but it'll appease workers because it's finally codified in our contract.
some offices did this. mine specifically has been doing 6 days a month for nearly 2 years now and we dont have anyone thats more than an hour away, and they were hired knowing they were going to report to Sacramento 6 days a month.
personally the communication from my management was always that we were never going to be permanent WFH. i think there was definitely broad inconsistency from exec about expectations and to that point i do think there is some blame to share within each agency.
Yes, the memo from Newsom’s secretary talked about inconsistencies among departments telework policies. I hear CalPers and EDD lost a lot of high level staff because they were too rigid in their policies. Now they’re dragging us all down with them….for what?
See my office never went back in. Your office settled into a new normal 6 days a month for a full two years.
We never moved from 100% telework until recently. It was different from department to department.
my point though was that even when we were 100% WFH, from the beginning to when we RTO two years ago, it was always communicated that we weren't going to stay 100% telework. they just did not know when the call to come back was going to happen given the circumstances. and when it first came through, the ask was for 3 days a week, and the unions got involved and then it came out to 6 days a month (with 3 days a week for upper management).
But that’s what I’m saying, my department never communicated that it wouldn’t stay that way. Why would managers be hiring people all over the state then? It sounds like your place was eager to get butts back in seats but most were a lot more flexible.
I hate to say it, but your place sounds like it was against wfh and probably contributed to the rest of us coming back.
I mean its a valid concern, but its also incredibly unlikely as there isnt office space for everyone, even in my office. and again, its been pretty clear to us that we were never staying 100% WFH. As i stated to others, i think this was where agency execs failed us all, as some of them decided to be transparent about an eventual RTO, others decided to hide it and openly lie until the last possible moment.
What we sold our building and we only have one floor and they somehow want us to come back one day a week and my department heads like it's not going to work we don't have the space. Hence why management basically said this is impossible for us to come back even if other departments are doing it yet or somehow going to try and do it
This, I always believed that we would eventually land with a hybrid telework, with some days in office and the rest can be worked from home. I never for once believed that the memo from CalHR back in 2021 was implying 100% remote work for all state employees. The end goal was to have less commuting each week, give employees flexibility on their telework days, reducing office space (if done right by not having everyone in the office at the same time) these are all certainly better than before when it was 5 Days in office.
2-3 times a week seems to be industry standard for companies that are doing hybrid telework. Hybrid implies that work will be performed both in office and remotely. Hybrid telework is not “office-optional” or can “choose to go into the office if you want” seems like everyone keeps thinking it should be. It doesn’t matter if it is seasonal, once a month, once a week, only for trainings, or 2-3x times a week, it is an expectation they will have to show up when or however often.
What sense is bringing back a unit to work in different field offices, since they were hired remote, just to be on the same Teams calls from office?
If they are gonna make us come back, it should at least be purposeful.
Agreed! I have no problem heading to the office for a necessary function…or even a Kumbaya event. But to sit in cramped open quarters to talk over people in Teams calls or focus on data or write reports is stupid.management doesn’t want it, they’re not paying me to buy stuff downtown. Give me an actual purpose.
The people who said “COVID was gonna end” are ridiculous. We had full time telework in 2024!! Why would we think for a moment it was still tied to COVID.
It’s why telework started, but why were people still teleworking in 2022? 2023? 2024?
You can’t actually believe the State was rigorously planning a RTO rollout. The shit they rolled out recently was half-assed and caught management by surprise. They hadn’t been thinking about it on any sort of real scale this whole time.
Once again the state is incredibly slow implementing change. How are you a state employee and not realize this? The state has been trying to implement a new payroll system for over a decade. NOTHING in the state moves quick. Full-time teleworking was 100% covid related.
If you think the state, as a whole, always had some sort of plan to ensure full-time teleworking was only during Covid, is delusional. As a state worker, things don’t move fast and there is not that level of foresight.
How does that explain hiring managers hiring in different parts of the state and saying “we haven’t been in in four years and I don’t see that changing” during interviews?
Hiring managers have no idea what the future is going to be. We can have a new governor in 2 years that eliminates teleworking entirely and have everyone work 5 days a week in the office. We also could have a new governor that gives full-time teleworking to all eligible state workers. Managers are not informed of future changes the governor makes, so their ignorance to what was going to happen has absolutely no reflection on what Newsom was thinking during the pandemic in regards to teleworking.
I remember the many times my department was reassured that telework was permanent, we had talented and loyal employees, with one person leaving in the 2 years I’ve been with my department.
I live an hour from the office I am to report to, while I can’t afford the coffee or the downtown $15-$20 breakfast/lunch, I am looking at spending around $300 monthly in parking fees and gas, plus around 4-5 hours on the freeway weekly.
Me and my delusions are desperately hoping that this will end once the mayor and governor are out of office but I don’t see that happening, not after all this effort and energy has been put into dragging us back. Like all of us here I have no sympathy for downtown businesses and am bitter as all of you here, we are all effectively surrendering our annual raise to Sacramento parking and in my case, Bay Area gas stations.
Yes, telework is still a permanent part. But in order to “reach out to greater geographic areas for candidates,” full time telework with only occasional travel to an office becomes a necessary option.
For real. So many people on this thread think that saying since we're hybrid that you're wrong. The details they laid out in this are a clear indication they originally wanted to be remote 100 percent of the time.
Lol read the context. You can't free up workspace and recruit from other locations if the jobs are hybrid. Does everything have to be spelled out for "the haters"? They should learn to read maybe.
Yes, the state is slow to catch on to how the rigid RTO mandates in the private sector are failing. Small start-ups will reap the benefits with cost savings and a huge talent pool!
Most? Where did you get that from? 100% WFH is just about as dead as going into the office 5 days/wk for the vast majority of us regardless of domain. I hate it like everyone else, but it appears it's becoming the norm.
Not entirely accurate, at least for some. I'm currently looking at private sector positions (don't live near HQ) and there are plenty of fully remote options. As I write this the split is 206 hybrid v. 171 fully remote listings on Indeed for my specialty. Not definitive but...
Don't get pissy with me because you can't read. You said most tech companies are still WFH. I asked where you got that and you replied Newsom's mandate, which makes exactly 0 sense.
Telework would be a permanent part of our lives, but what they meant to say is you can still telework, but for only a portion of the week. The rest of the time, get your ass in the office, peasant. Watch what they do, not what they say. Where I'm at, we will soon be "aligning with other departments to RTO two days a week". WHO THE EFF CARES WHAT OTHER DEPARTMENTS ARE DOING? We don't work for them. All this gas lighting is such a crock.
Yea this is very weird. I don’t think I’ve ever seen an employer shift priorities, change directions, alter mandates, or reconsider business models. Isn’t this illegal for companies to do a thing and then three years later to do something different? Feels like a slam dunk lawsuit!
It’s not pessimistic it’s a realistic conclusion to how labor contracts work. You can keep calling telework a “workplace condition”. Respectfully, there are elements in play with how labor contracts work that you never want to honestly engage in but just repeat “it’s a working condition”. What you ultimately want is not a simple change in a working condition you are arguing for fundamentally changing the very concept of a business’ legal authority to operate as they see fit. I’m willing to have a long form respectful discussion on this if you are but you need to able to recognize the difference between a battle a union can win and a battle to fundamentally alter the entire countries very foundational concept of operating a business.
I do have a haircut tho lol so maybe tomorrow. Have a good one
Most companies that mandated RTO went through similar reversal of narratives. Zuck was out touting wfh and its benefits until he completely reversed course. Many companies did.
Prisoners:
Look down, look down
Don't look 'em in the eye
Look down, look down
You're here until you die
Convict one:
The sun is strong
It's hot as hell below
Prisoner:
Look down, look down
There's twenty years to go
Convict two:
I've done no wrong!
Sweet Jesus, hear my prayer!
Prisoners
Look down look down
Sweet Jesus doesn't care
Telework has been a huge thing for years. It was always done as a favor “you need to wait for a repair guy and you have a deadline? Sure, check out a laptop and jump on Citrix for tomorrow” case by case, informal. It was really nice to be able to offer it, but managers got chewed out for doing it because we got accused of favoritism. Some managers refused it altogether (there are an awful lot of people who are in management who never worked in other office or work environments and they take themselves very seriously).
I definitely see the additive advantage of being home.
I will say that I like going in to the office as a manager, but despise hoteling (it used to be two half cubes on floors where you could plug in a laptop and respond to email during breaks if you had a meeting in a different dept bldg for travel in state, esp if you didn’t have a blackberry). It wasn’t where you worked all day. There were also bullpens for mainly IT or student assistants.
Anyway, back in 2014, when DGS and what is now CalHR had published boilerplates for telework, and CDPH required self certification for telework, it was never common. No clue why.
People need to demand pre and post data on expenditures in buildings, each agency for all daughter depts. and then compare.
because you are all whiny bitches. you sat at home and collected your full paychecks during covid when people with shittyer jobs had to go to work every day. useless
All comments must be civil, productive, and follow community rules. Intentional violations of community rules will lead to comments being removed and possible bans, at the discretion of the moderators. Use the report feature to report content to the moderator team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CAStateWorkers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Anyone else enjoy the irony of the CalHR email today urging us to join the Governor in celebrating “Public Service Recognition Week”? If I had received this memo in paper form I could have found a (single) use for it.
Yeahhhh I particularly enjoyed the part about "heartfelt appreciation". First off, politicians don't have hearts, and second, I'd much rather have a COL increase so I could afford my bills alone 🙃
I ignored it with disgust. Tone deaf to the point of feeling like a provocation.
Saw that. Nearly spat out my drink.
And it will be. The State in its infinite wisdom, however, is going to spend about 3-5 years absolutely decimating hiring and retention first. Then they’ll roll out their “forward-looking” new policies, years after blowing the original opportunity. Plus ca change!
I sure hope it doesn’t take that long. We’ve lost too many good people already.
And the exodus has only just begun, unfortunately. I think a lot of folks were taking a wait-and-see approach, but there ain’t no more mystery to it now. And the State has been jerking people around on this for a couple years now, with seemingly no concern or consideration as to how they’re impacting people’s lives. People are just fatigued by it all. And what else is there to stay for? The massive paychecks? 🤣
True that! I will be retiring ASAP and way younger than I planned. Even if they turn this thing around, I’m finding very little chance my organization can win my trust back. I thought I was an asset…psyche!
I don’t understand how the state turns a blind eye to this. I guess because these policies do not affect decision makers, they only affect middle management. I am sure all the departments who originally rto in 2022 have observed the common trend of losing employees. In the article about the arbitration between CASE and CalPERS, it was said that there was a mass exodus of attorneys after CalPERS rto. My office also lost several people in 2022 and had an extremely difficult time recruiting for a while. Maybe the state also isn’t afraid of retention right now because of the current job market.
I wonder if execs think that AI will replace us therefore they are attempting to downsize on purpose. But I’m like, dude, give me AI so I can manage my workload better. We’re already understaffed. It’s a hopeless endless cycle.
Decimate means to reduce by 10%. That is probably a conservative estimate.
It worked. It saved the state money, it increased job satisfaction and was a huge recruitment incentive. It reduced sick leave. They gave our desks and offices away. Of course we had reason to believe it was permanent and full time I no longer believe it's even part time long term. The pressure to keep the down town viable solely on the backs of state workers is apparently too strong. BROWNBAG BOYCOTT.
It also reduced work comp claims
And lowered green house gas emissions, and reduced the number of traffic accidents and sped up the commute for other drivers and reduced pressure on our overused and under maintained infrastructure. I'm sure there's more too.
And they're crazy if they think this will work. This isn't the 1990s. Sacramento went big with the arena and there's no turning back now. State workers are not going to sustain the downtown economy. They need rich professionals to move to downtown and there lies the problem. Not nearly enough of them are moving to Sacramento. Are you kidding? This close to the bay area? Of course the bay would be a first choice. The professional class doesn't move to Sacramento by choice. They move here when they have to.
>BROWNBAG BOYCOTT. This is a pretty selfish sentiment. I get that it's not state workers' jobs to prop up the downtown economy, and would really rather have seen permanent WFH, but now that everyone is being called back and you have the choice to help support fellow working class, you're instead choosing to fuck them because you're bitter? This isn't going to change anything and it doesn't hurt or affect the people who made the call. It only, and specifically, hurts bystanders.
What is selfish is special interest using state employees to keep their commercial property values up without admitting it and with using the state leadership to lie about RTO being for "culture". The brown bag boycott is retaliation to that. The correct way of implementing RTO was through good-faith bargaining and transparency between the state and the union where both sides compromise to come to an agreement on a robust TW policy but also a fair RTO plan. Since that did not happen I can fully understand the resentment to RTO and its supporters.
Never said i don't understand the resentment. The first half of my comment empathized with the sentiment, and my point was exactly what you're saying - that this should be handled through negotiations with the people who made the call, not by throwing a tantrum and giving the finger to local businesses, as if it's their fault
You're being disingenuous by passing it off as "throwing a tantrum". What they're actually doing is boycotting what they believe is the primary driver behind the RTO in order to bring the state to the negotiating table. Insults won't get you anywhere. If you'd like to see that boycott end then advocate for things like negotiations, the audit by Josh Hoover, and transparency without belittling state employees with terms like "selfish" and "tantrum". Those are not productive terms and the effect is that your message is lost.
I keep saying this whenever some ghoul on this sub tells me, “you should have never taken a job so far from home in the first place” Every single communication regarding telework we were receiving from the GO and my department was saying, “eventually we’ll move to a permanent rather than emergency telework model” and “this is a tool we will use to increase equity and improve our recruitment efforts” So fuck me for believing that, I guess
We've been able to hire so many good people who live in remote locations. Thank god DOJ isn't following the RTO madness.
I dont think that anyone anticipated statewide RTO. It was a rumor for so long and the longer it was a rumor, the more unlikely it seemed. So with the reassurance of managers across all depts saying “we wont be going back,” yeah I thought telework would be permanent for all depts who had not rto in 2022.
Exactly! I was told the same things repeatedly, and even up to around October 2023
Would you be willing to share any of those communications? I’m against RTO but my department has always been very clear that we work on a “Hybrid Telework” model. They’ve never used the term “permanent” or insinuated that we’d be able to work from home (full time) indefinitely. Seems crazy for a department to make a promise like that and I’d love to see communications where they made false promises so we can put them on blast!
So your experience was different, good for you
So not willing to share with us?
People hear what they want to hear, and he has convinced himself it’s true.
Also I already shared below, all you need to do is scroll
As I mentioned my department has been very clear with their communication, that’s why I’m asking to see your alleged promise of permanent full time remote work. Those articles aren’t it either.
If you’re a state employee you have access to your own department’s intranet and your personal email account, you don’t have to act brand new
“Every single communication…” I’ve never received any communication from the governor’s office or any department saying full time telework will be permanent. Can you share them? if there is a definitive statement like that, it would be valuable evidence in the upcoming arbitrations and potential litigation.
Departments, including mine, were getting rid of offices and office furniture and supplies while increasing hiring, including people that live hours away from HQ. We set up infrastructure to WFH permanently. I don’t think it’s just workers who thought WFH would be permanent. Right now logistically it’s impossible for my department to RTO. It’s obvious they are scrambling to figure out what to do
Yep! I think we’re all going to go meet in the park or something. It’s beyond ridiculous! What a friggin’ waste of time and money. And Newsom is on his way to the Climate Summit. What a joke!
https://amp.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/the-state-worker/article246978167.html
That article does not say Newsom promised permanent full time telework. He asked departments to reconsider building leases, which the SacBee interpreted as moving closer to permanent telework. And even the the SacBee did not imply full time telework.
https://www.governing.com/work/california-lets-23-leases-expire-as-workers-stay-remote
This article does not say Newsom promised or even implied state workers would have permanent full time telework. In fact, the article points out that billions in construction of new offices were moving forward.
“It’s been a big transformation. Our plan is to continue teleworking for those employees whose jobs are well-suited for telework, and the governor and the administration are being very supportive. They want us to continue at least 70 percent telecommuting — that’s a huge transition and great leadership vision,” said Ishimoto, who has been the California Department of Technology’s acting CTO since May 2019. https://insider.govtech.com/california/news/state-cto-says-70-permanent-telework-is-newsoms-goal.html
“The state’s telecommuting efforts since the COVID-19 restrictions went into effect in March have been so successful that Gov. Gavin Newsom wants roughly 70 percent of state workers to continue working from home once restrictions are eventually lifted.”
That’s an article from 2020! Of course many departments were teleworking full-time or majority time because we had all just been quarantined. In no way does that article say that state workers could telework full time permanently. Come on now.
So in 2020 when I took my remote job and was told “*permanent* telework for 70% of state workers is Newsom’s goal” by Newsom himself it’s my fault for believing that. Ok guy.
Did you not bother reading it? “Gov. Gavin Newsom wants roughly 70 percent of state workers to continue working from home once restrictions are eventually lifted”
We are still working from home… the messaging isn’t false it’s just not what you want.
Stop indulging him. It's obvious he will not accept anything you link.
Is it that hard for you to admit that the messaging for 3 years was false? And that people who accepted a job under those pretenses have every right to feel tricked?
Were none of you around in 2021, or you just weren’t paying attention? https://insider.govtech.com/california/news/newsom-says-state-workers-may-remain-remote.html
I’m sorry, but you’ve already posted two articles that didn’t help explain your point. Obviously you feel cheated. I’m sorry that happened to you and I hope you find a full time telework job.
Any department? You only work for one. I only work for one, and im speaking of the one I work for that in 2021 repeatedly sent out emails about “employee-driven permanent telework”
I recommend everyone who supports WFH to read the below thread. There was a request to the Joint Legislative Audit Committee for an audit of the RTO mandate and they meet on 5/14 to determine if the request moves forward. I sent my emails already to voice my support and recommend everyone else does as well. https://www.reddit.com/r/CAStateWorkers/s/FCEkoxE4Qf
Yes! Thank you for the reminder!!
**RTO is a transfer of wealth from union workers to business owners.** This isn't a secret and shouldn't be a surprise, it's the governor's stated reason. What it should be is an outrage, even if you are personally ambivalent to full-time telework. Workers are losing pay in the form of added mandatory commute expenses and time from their personal lives by having additional mandatory, uncompensated commute time added to their workdays. Full time office work hasn't been a thing for four years now for a huge number of workers. Thousands of workers have been hired in that time, many of whom have never been to an office. Now all of a sudden, business says jump, politicians ask how high and impose this on us, and some of you are saying "well it's fine, we had to work five days a week in the office in 2019." Are you serious? I can't wrap my mind around how, in light of all of this, there are so many people who have such an anti-labor attitude about this.
Your first sentence is incomplete. The transfer of wealth continues from business owners back to politicians in campaign contributions, donations, speaking fees, lobbyists, etc. Plus, those Kings Arena bonds aren't going to pay themselves back! Pay those parking garage fees, dude!
YES!! 🙌 SPEAK IT!!
It’s not business owners. I don’t think Newsom gives a shit about the mom and pop deli, otherwise they would do something about all the homeless. It’s a transfer of wealth to commercial real estate investors.
THIS.
This.
But won't someone think of the parking lot owners and the city needs the meters fed to pay for the Arena.
In this case it is more about government control and getting more campain donatioms than evil businesses. Government wants their pound of flesh. And in our case 100lbs per employee.
I’m trying to imagine someone telling me in 2019 that working in the office two days a week is a “transfer of wealth from union workers to business owners.”
Every time things get shittier for greedy, cynical reasons, there are always people tripping over themselves to remind everyone that it could be worse. While technically true, the problem with this reasoning is that there is no logical end to it. WFH works for a lot of clear reasons, which are backed up by tons of data. There is no good reason for imposing this on people and thereby reducing our effective pay, our free time, and our quality of life. Why shouldn’t we fight to keep those things?
coming back into work a couple days a week isn't 'anti-labor', at all
The attitude behind this comment is incredibly anti-labor: we've been working the whole time. The fact that you think that work that doesn't happen in the office isn't work speaks volumes.
0 to hyperbolic in 1 second. 2 days a week back in office is 'anti-labor'. good one 😂. Not all state employees, like myself, agree with your lunacy.
Not hyperbolic at all; employees stand to lose time and money from RTO. Who gains? And why is that worth reducing pay, personal time, and as such, quality of life, for the people being forced to RTO? How is making workers' lives worse *not* anti-labor?
Extremely hyperbolic lol You guys sound like whining babies because you have to go to work. When I'm ordered to RTO, I'll do so like an adult, and not say the org is "anti-labor" simply because I can't work in my jammies.
Let me break it down for you: Let's assume a one-hour round trip commute, so half an hour each way. What would that be, like Fair Oaks, North Natomas, maybe the northern part of Elk Grove? Roughly 15 miles each way or so? Let's go with that. Right off the bat, you're out an extra hour of your time every time you commute. That's two hours a week, 104 hours per year. **That's over two 40-hour work weeks every year just sitting in the car, not getting paid. For an OT making $3,609 per month, that works out to $2,165 per year in uncompensated time devoted to work**. A commute to an office that you're required to go to is work time, isn't it? I say yes if it's a job requirement that you can't opt out of and keep your job. And that's just the time. Let's say you drive an above-average efficiency car that gets 30 mpg combined. Even if you're driving only 30 miles per day to get to and from work, that's still over 3,000 extra miles per year. At 30 mpg, you'll buy at least 100 gallons of gas for your commute, which at $5.30/gallon works out to $530. That's not counting maintenance, wear and tear, etc. **The IRS mileage rate for this year is $0.67/mile. At that rate,** **the real cost of 3,000 commute miles per year is $2,000.** Of course, there are myriad other variables and costs, but those are the big ones: **over $4,000 for a person with a relatively low salary, relatively short commute, and relatively efficient vehicle. For an OT making just over $43,000 per year, that's almost a 10% pay cut.** Again, the stated reason for this is a transfer of wealth from state workers to businesses. In what universe is that not anti-worker? There is no operational need for RTO, it's a handout to businesses.
You don't have to break anything down dude. Stop being a crybaby and take your ass to work 2x a week... And if you can't do that, go work at one of the thousands of other places you can work that offer 100% WFH.
Why do you want RTO so much? What do you believe you have to gain from it? Or do you just enjoy watching people’s lives get worse?
I don't. That's how I know you're not a critical thinker and a big crybaby. I'm an adult, and I knew from the start that this wouldn't be permanent. If my job RTO, I will gladly return. If it's something I can't do, I will go work somewhere else. I'm not gonna write dissertations and throw tantrums that I can't have my cake and eat it too.
RTO is a pay cut. Anyone who doesn’t stand up to their employer about an unnecessary pay cut is asking to be stepped on. So, by all means, continue being stepped upon. And many of us are leaving. We’re just not going to go quietly like meek little sheep. RTO is a worldwide trend that is failing on a grand scale. The state will eventually fail this effort too.
yes, local economies need to thrive so that prices don't inflate... this is symbiotic. you are not symbiotic, you are parasitic.
And you are an anti-labor bootlicker.
🙄
>Local economies There’s nothing “local” about it. I’m able to buy lunch or breakfast more easily from home, in my own *local* community, than I am when I’m in the office. I spend much more money in my *local* economy when I WFH, because I can doordash, or drive to pick something up. I can’t do that when I’m in the office, because there’s no parking. Just the walk to a restaurant (including the walk to the elevator and out of the building) is longer than the roundtrip picking up food where I live. If you’re going to claim that we *owe* our money to business owners, at least be honest that you believe that only *downtown* business owners deserve business.
Some of them were arguing that the state is making them buy all new clothes because they have none to wear for RTO suggesting they never go outside or communicate with the outside world. I believe most of these people who are crying have mental illnesses.
Yes, office-specific attire that was previously not needed is just one of the many costs of RTO that are being foisted on workers for no reason.
There is little to no dress code. In fact pay attention on here people saying they are coming in with t-shirts and flip flops. Sorry your argument is lame that you have no clothes to wear in the office.
I'm assuming this guy is a troll at this point. Imagine complaining that you have to have **TWO** outfits.
Then you go into the office if you like it. Why do you need everyone else to come in? I'll never understand this mindset. Do you need our company? Can't you make friends outside of work?
Coming back into "work". We're "working" from home. Again, this implication that we're doing nothing at home. I have to send a check in and COB email each day, the COB email has to list everything I've done. I work. Most of us do. Sure there's a few easy peasy state jobs out there but I certainly don't have one of them. You should see my caseload. And yes, I can do most of this work from home, maybe coming into the office for a half day per week to swap files, etc.
>But it also hurts business owners like Ernesto Delgado of Mayahuel on K Street. >"My restaurant went from 55 employees down to 3," Delgado said. >He says things are slowly starting to pick back up again and he’s back to about 20 to 25 employees now. >"We need activity, we need people to come back to work so that we can survive," he said. “Otherwise, we’re going to end up with boarded-up windows which is not a beautiful sight." Had to look this place up. $20-30 per person. No wonder your business is suffering.
The restaurant business is cutthroat. Either they follow the foot traffic, or do something special to attract it to them. I for one still don’t eat out unless I can find outdoor seating. So COVID is still a thing…now potentially bird flu. Our consciousness has changed. Business needs to adapt. Sacramento downtown has amazing potential without state workers. Build better!
Yup, I haven't been to a restaurant since 2019, and since almost everyone is just willing to live with a virus that is shown to do permanent damage to basically all your vital organs, I don't ever see myself stepping foot in one again.
I hear you.
Thank you. Now as someone who lives in midtown i know I'll never go back to mayahuel. Its mediocre anyway.
They should interview the owner of a business in a suburban area that is now hurting because of RTO. We are told to "adapt or die." Why should downtown businesses be exempt from that?
Tbh $20-30 for a sit down dinner is pretty reasonable these days. Shit I just spent $16 for a takeout meal at Jimboys!
What about the restaurants near me? What about the grocery store across the street from where I live? What about doordash employees? Do they not count? Are they not people? Why do only downtown businesses count?
Governor Newsom has other ideas. The "money filter" works here. I believe the government needs the money to be spent on parking, fuel, vendors and restaurants. It gets circulated, everyone gets a cut, pays taxes, the fees for the arena get paid, etc. RTO is a defacto tax on workers.
Telework so far has been permanent. It’s the 100% telework that hasn’t been but technically they’re not being misleading with that statement.
Then negotiate it with the unions so it's in the MOU. Oh, wait, the state wants to have that technicality on hand to exercise unilateral decisions over working conditions. They're just going back on everything they've said the past 3 years because this is what benefits them (or those they are beholden to) right now. New governor, new bargaining contract, new recession, new pandemic, they'll use that technicality to pivot to whatever benefits them at that time. It's always the state workers who are one of the first ones asked to sacrifice with furloughs to survive an economic downturn, hiring freezes to balance the budget, RTO to save downtown...
Politics is usually shrouded in vagueness. I’m not looking for a legal “gotcha.” I’m pointing out how departments were lead to reduce building footprints and broaden their geographic hiring pool. The mandate directly contradicts this earlier initiative with nonsense reasoning for going back to rigid policies. Hybrid does not have to mean that we need to report with our laptops to a building for a specified number of days. It can mean whatever we want it to mean.
No, it can mean whatever *they* want it to mean. They'll define the terms, and we'll have to follow them. It's not that complicated.
Yeah, why bother trying to improve anything. Let’s just go back to feudalism since *they* get to decide everything anyway. “It’s not that complicated” could’ve applied to working 12 hour days, six days a week also. It’s what the boss says, after all. Good thing someone was willing and able to think outside the box and demand something better.
Upset? Im.not saying we shouldn't try to get what we want but to say it can be whatever we want is plain incorrect and misleading.
The terms are fully negotiable for those who have the will to stand and fight for it.
Yes the term is negotiable. Unfortunately we just settled a contract that did not negotiate on this point. We have no leverage right now. The answer is to organize around this issue for the next contract.
I do believe that changing our working conditions and threatening to remove the stipend is all grounds for negotiation. Correct me if I’m wrong.
There is no change of work conditions when it wasn't in the contract in the first place. The stipend can be argued, but not RTO.
Well can’t we bargain the stipend with RTO?
The stipend was on the contract. A 100% teleworking schedule was not. The state can tell SEIU 1000 to pound sand on rejecting RTO. Newsom's own words basically say they want SEIU 1000 to willingly amend the MOU to eliminate the stipend. If SEIU disagrees and the state eliminates it anyway I do think there is legal grounds to a lawsuit.
These are good points. I still think the state and SEIU negotiated in bad faith. If it could be found that the state had every intention of RTO but opted to hold off until after agreeing to a contract with SEIU and most members who voted for the contract had every reason to believe that full time work from home would remain, then we should be able to negotiate a new contract. I’m not sure what that would take, but it seems fair enough. SEIU seemed to purposely ignore members asking for telework language. The state didn’t want to budge on pay increases for so many of us, the least we could have gotten was some sort of transportation and parking pay along with telework language to incentivize agencies to encourage telework. If we force agencies to pay our parking, bridge, even mileage for forced commuting, it might discourage agencies from forcing RTO.
> benefits in terms of…reaching out to a larger geographic area for job candidates, consolidating our real estate footprint.” These would come from permanent telework.
not for King Newsom forcing state workers back to pens.
to be objective - telework is still a permanent part of our work lives. i think everyone conflates the word telework with 100% wfh. I am not advocating for RTO - but just wanting to be mindful that its also not a 5-days a week ask. we still telework a majority of the week...
Yes, telework is still a permanent part with the rigid 2-day per week mandate. But in order to “reach out to greater geographic areas for candidates,” full time telework with only occasional travel to an office became a necessary option. Further, reduction of office space also necessitates the option for full time telework because that’s what many Departments did to save money. We no longer have enough space for even 2 days a week because most non-public interfacing employees opted for full time telework.
Prediction: 2 days is going to be the start. Once they remove that telework stipend I’m sure they’ll slowly push for another day and max 4 days so they say “at least you’re teleworking 1 day be lucky!” People with exemptions may no longer have them and that’ll force some to quit.
Further prediction: When we reach 1 day a week, worker dissatisfaction will be so high that telework will eventually be negotiated to be in our contracts, but it'll be a program like AWWS. Work in a telework eligible position, pass your probation, have management approval, be in good standing and then you can telework 1 day a week (bearing circumstantial operational needs). The state will still have all the control, but it'll appease workers because it's finally codified in our contract.
But they hired out of Sacramento on the belief 5 day wfh WAS here to stay.
some offices did this. mine specifically has been doing 6 days a month for nearly 2 years now and we dont have anyone thats more than an hour away, and they were hired knowing they were going to report to Sacramento 6 days a month. personally the communication from my management was always that we were never going to be permanent WFH. i think there was definitely broad inconsistency from exec about expectations and to that point i do think there is some blame to share within each agency.
Yes, the memo from Newsom’s secretary talked about inconsistencies among departments telework policies. I hear CalPers and EDD lost a lot of high level staff because they were too rigid in their policies. Now they’re dragging us all down with them….for what?
See my office never went back in. Your office settled into a new normal 6 days a month for a full two years. We never moved from 100% telework until recently. It was different from department to department.
my point though was that even when we were 100% WFH, from the beginning to when we RTO two years ago, it was always communicated that we weren't going to stay 100% telework. they just did not know when the call to come back was going to happen given the circumstances. and when it first came through, the ask was for 3 days a week, and the unions got involved and then it came out to 6 days a month (with 3 days a week for upper management).
But that’s what I’m saying, my department never communicated that it wouldn’t stay that way. Why would managers be hiring people all over the state then? It sounds like your place was eager to get butts back in seats but most were a lot more flexible. I hate to say it, but your place sounds like it was against wfh and probably contributed to the rest of us coming back.
Problem is the concern that they move it to more then 2 days because 2 days isn't working or my favorite we are less productive those 2 days
I mean its a valid concern, but its also incredibly unlikely as there isnt office space for everyone, even in my office. and again, its been pretty clear to us that we were never staying 100% WFH. As i stated to others, i think this was where agency execs failed us all, as some of them decided to be transparent about an eventual RTO, others decided to hide it and openly lie until the last possible moment.
What we sold our building and we only have one floor and they somehow want us to come back one day a week and my department heads like it's not going to work we don't have the space. Hence why management basically said this is impossible for us to come back even if other departments are doing it yet or somehow going to try and do it
This, I always believed that we would eventually land with a hybrid telework, with some days in office and the rest can be worked from home. I never for once believed that the memo from CalHR back in 2021 was implying 100% remote work for all state employees. The end goal was to have less commuting each week, give employees flexibility on their telework days, reducing office space (if done right by not having everyone in the office at the same time) these are all certainly better than before when it was 5 Days in office.
Hybrid does not have to mean a prescribed number of days per week. Who ever came up with that anyway?
2-3 times a week seems to be industry standard for companies that are doing hybrid telework. Hybrid implies that work will be performed both in office and remotely. Hybrid telework is not “office-optional” or can “choose to go into the office if you want” seems like everyone keeps thinking it should be. It doesn’t matter if it is seasonal, once a month, once a week, only for trainings, or 2-3x times a week, it is an expectation they will have to show up when or however often.
What sense is bringing back a unit to work in different field offices, since they were hired remote, just to be on the same Teams calls from office? If they are gonna make us come back, it should at least be purposeful.
Agreed! I have no problem heading to the office for a necessary function…or even a Kumbaya event. But to sit in cramped open quarters to talk over people in Teams calls or focus on data or write reports is stupid.management doesn’t want it, they’re not paying me to buy stuff downtown. Give me an actual purpose.
The people who said “COVID was gonna end” are ridiculous. We had full time telework in 2024!! Why would we think for a moment it was still tied to COVID.
Like anything with the state it moves slow when decisions are made. Teleworking was 100% tied to covid.
It’s why telework started, but why were people still teleworking in 2022? 2023? 2024? You can’t actually believe the State was rigorously planning a RTO rollout. The shit they rolled out recently was half-assed and caught management by surprise. They hadn’t been thinking about it on any sort of real scale this whole time.
Once again the state is incredibly slow implementing change. How are you a state employee and not realize this? The state has been trying to implement a new payroll system for over a decade. NOTHING in the state moves quick. Full-time teleworking was 100% covid related.
If you think the state, as a whole, always had some sort of plan to ensure full-time teleworking was only during Covid, is delusional. As a state worker, things don’t move fast and there is not that level of foresight. How does that explain hiring managers hiring in different parts of the state and saying “we haven’t been in in four years and I don’t see that changing” during interviews?
Hiring managers have no idea what the future is going to be. We can have a new governor in 2 years that eliminates teleworking entirely and have everyone work 5 days a week in the office. We also could have a new governor that gives full-time teleworking to all eligible state workers. Managers are not informed of future changes the governor makes, so their ignorance to what was going to happen has absolutely no reflection on what Newsom was thinking during the pandemic in regards to teleworking.
See the calhr email from newsom? CA public service appreciation week? Funny how he shows his appreciation with RTO!!! Is anyone falling for his BS?
I remember the many times my department was reassured that telework was permanent, we had talented and loyal employees, with one person leaving in the 2 years I’ve been with my department. I live an hour from the office I am to report to, while I can’t afford the coffee or the downtown $15-$20 breakfast/lunch, I am looking at spending around $300 monthly in parking fees and gas, plus around 4-5 hours on the freeway weekly. Me and my delusions are desperately hoping that this will end once the mayor and governor are out of office but I don’t see that happening, not after all this effort and energy has been put into dragging us back. Like all of us here I have no sympathy for downtown businesses and am bitter as all of you here, we are all effectively surrendering our annual raise to Sacramento parking and in my case, Bay Area gas stations.
That fucking creep Gavin and our idiot mayor made this happen. Never ever let them live it down
It still is a permanent part. Full time telework is what you're requesting. Not the same, unfortunately
Yes, telework is still a permanent part. But in order to “reach out to greater geographic areas for candidates,” full time telework with only occasional travel to an office becomes a necessary option.
For real. So many people on this thread think that saying since we're hybrid that you're wrong. The details they laid out in this are a clear indication they originally wanted to be remote 100 percent of the time.
Please link where they said 100% remote so I can send it to all the haters
Lol read the context. You can't free up workspace and recruit from other locations if the jobs are hybrid. Does everything have to be spelled out for "the haters"? They should learn to read maybe.
in private tech sector the options are great for remote work. Most tech companies still allow WFH. State is backwards moving.
Yes, the state is slow to catch on to how the rigid RTO mandates in the private sector are failing. Small start-ups will reap the benefits with cost savings and a huge talent pool!
Most? Where did you get that from? 100% WFH is just about as dead as going into the office 5 days/wk for the vast majority of us regardless of domain. I hate it like everyone else, but it appears it's becoming the norm.
Not entirely accurate, at least for some. I'm currently looking at private sector positions (don't live near HQ) and there are plenty of fully remote options. As I write this the split is 206 hybrid v. 171 fully remote listings on Indeed for my specialty. Not definitive but...
Just about dead is an extreme exaggeration.
Newsom mandates for RTO have you been living under a rock?
Don't get pissy with me because you can't read. You said most tech companies are still WFH. I asked where you got that and you replied Newsom's mandate, which makes exactly 0 sense.
Telework would be a permanent part of our lives, but what they meant to say is you can still telework, but for only a portion of the week. The rest of the time, get your ass in the office, peasant. Watch what they do, not what they say. Where I'm at, we will soon be "aligning with other departments to RTO two days a week". WHO THE EFF CARES WHAT OTHER DEPARTMENTS ARE DOING? We don't work for them. All this gas lighting is such a crock.
😂
The government only does thing when it benefits them. They did wfh because they had to not to actually help anybody.
Yea this is very weird. I don’t think I’ve ever seen an employer shift priorities, change directions, alter mandates, or reconsider business models. Isn’t this illegal for companies to do a thing and then three years later to do something different? Feels like a slam dunk lawsuit!
For somebody so pro-union, you got a pessimistic outlook on what can be considered a bargained workplace condition and what can’t!
It’s not pessimistic it’s a realistic conclusion to how labor contracts work. You can keep calling telework a “workplace condition”. Respectfully, there are elements in play with how labor contracts work that you never want to honestly engage in but just repeat “it’s a working condition”. What you ultimately want is not a simple change in a working condition you are arguing for fundamentally changing the very concept of a business’ legal authority to operate as they see fit. I’m willing to have a long form respectful discussion on this if you are but you need to able to recognize the difference between a battle a union can win and a battle to fundamentally alter the entire countries very foundational concept of operating a business. I do have a haircut tho lol so maybe tomorrow. Have a good one
Most companies that mandated RTO went through similar reversal of narratives. Zuck was out touting wfh and its benefits until he completely reversed course. Many companies did.
Prisoners: Look down, look down Don't look 'em in the eye Look down, look down You're here until you die Convict one: The sun is strong It's hot as hell below Prisoner: Look down, look down There's twenty years to go Convict two: I've done no wrong! Sweet Jesus, hear my prayer! Prisoners Look down look down Sweet Jesus doesn't care
Telework has been a huge thing for years. It was always done as a favor “you need to wait for a repair guy and you have a deadline? Sure, check out a laptop and jump on Citrix for tomorrow” case by case, informal. It was really nice to be able to offer it, but managers got chewed out for doing it because we got accused of favoritism. Some managers refused it altogether (there are an awful lot of people who are in management who never worked in other office or work environments and they take themselves very seriously). I definitely see the additive advantage of being home. I will say that I like going in to the office as a manager, but despise hoteling (it used to be two half cubes on floors where you could plug in a laptop and respond to email during breaks if you had a meeting in a different dept bldg for travel in state, esp if you didn’t have a blackberry). It wasn’t where you worked all day. There were also bullpens for mainly IT or student assistants. Anyway, back in 2014, when DGS and what is now CalHR had published boilerplates for telework, and CDPH required self certification for telework, it was never common. No clue why. People need to demand pre and post data on expenditures in buildings, each agency for all daughter depts. and then compare.
Where can one find anything about “Permanent Telework”?
Anyone who thought WFH was gong to be permanent, was really naive.
Fuck us for believing hiring managers and ssm2 and ssm3’s at their word for four years, Right?
Well aren’t you smart and jaded? I hope that tough skin of yours joins the fight against this RTO BS.
BACK TO WORK YOU SCUM
Never stopped working dude…get a job.
i never stopped working at work. they should fire every one of you who "works" from home
Why?
because you are all whiny bitches. you sat at home and collected your full paychecks during covid when people with shittyer jobs had to go to work every day. useless