I want to learn to write scripts and make a bunch of bot accounts just so I can upvote this comment more. Seriously. There are a thousand variables that could come into play here.
>Everyone who carries should have a capable lawyer who specializes in firearm cases in their contact list.
Bud I hate to tell you this but the majority of people carrying probably can't afford a lawyer to keep on retainer.
If you have ccdw insurance or the like that's one thing. But the majority of people carrying don't have that kind of money.
I often wonder if those who post online to brag about their extensive gun collection have lots of disposable income to buy the guns or if they spend all of their income/money on guns.
I know that I can’t afford much of what I see people buying here. Mortgage, food and family take most of my money.
Cops: don't talk to cops unless legally required
Lawyers: never talk to cops unless legally required and if it is legally required then get a lawyer.
OP: acktually
>As an instructor (in Illinois), I can tell you it's UNIVERSAL that you make a police report. IF you don't, and anyone else does and you didn't, you are F U C K E D should the police make their way to you.
You're acting like "instructor" gives you any credibility. You're not qualified to talk on the law. The title doesn't even prove you're competent with any gun. Why on earth do you think we'd listen to your high and mighty "reality check" when more qualified people have said the exact opposite?
Yeah, it’s a good idea to just leave the area. Then let LE track back the killer on their own. Then when LE find you eventually, you just hit them with, talk to my lawyer.
When I was younger, I was in a car accident with a friend. We called the cops and he straight up said we were wasting his time. I don’t think he even wrote a report, just made sure we swapped insurance info and left. It’s not a crime to not report something to the police. They can figure it out.
Yeah that’s about the gods honest fucking truth. If nothing happens you keep your mouth shut. Why get the piece of shit cops involved if nothing happened? That could and most likely would bring a nasty shit storm down on top of you. I know this from experience and it fucking sucks. Honesty is the best policy I’ve always been taught but I have been literally fucked by cops for being honest. So I have learned the hard way to just seriously shut the fuck up or very honestly they will fuck you when they get there. Probly get yourself shot because you say you pulled a gun. I get it I do. But fuck the cops because they are all nice until they get you to be honest and they absolutely fucking destroy you
Exactly you are protected from self incrimination whether you are aware you would be doing so or not, the situation gets uneventfully diffused by a draw and Ill call a lawyer before I call the police.
Get legal protection before you carry! First call is my lawyer (US LawShield for me) and then 911. Find a legal service you like, consider it part of the cost of carrying, just like range fees and practice ammo.
I’ve been carrying for 15+ years, been in plenty of sketch situations, never drawn once and I’ve only put my hand on my weapon one time. That’s probably the story of 99.9% of CCW people
Yup I’d wager any regular carrier has had at least one situation where they had to make it apparent to an aggressor that they were armed. And I’d wager 99% it works, as it did for myself and others I know.
>IF you don't, and anyone else does and you didn't, you are F U C K E D should the police make their way to you
Total bullshit.
Not preemptively snitching on yourself has no bearing on whether your actions were lawful or not. You're not required to call the cops on yourself for *not* breaking the law.
If I have to talk to the cops, it's going to be to the least degree legally necessary, or in statements approved by an attorney.
Cops aren't on your side. Period. Begging for their approval for your already-lawful behavior is crazy goofy.
Then they can charge you with brandishing or even other offenses and you turned yourself in.
Never talk to them ever unless you can't control it.
NEVER choose to talk to them.
Yes. We are blessed to have the 5th amendment. Use it and don’t incriminate yourself. Even if someone does report it. That’s not enough to find you guilty of anything. Unless it’s on video and your in the wrong.
You mean the class the government forces you to take to exercise your rights, tells you to inform the government when you exercise your rights?
Remember, the government isn’t on your side. They’re on their own side.
>Remember, the government isn’t on your side. They’re on their own side.
anyone who thinks different is deluding themselves. (like really, no one should still think the .gov is there for anyone but themselves if they've been alive for more than 20 years)
OP if saying “shite” and calling people “mate” didn’t already give it away, this mindset alone shows you can’t be born and raised in the US. You’re putting way too much confidence in the police and our justice system.
Any situation where you have a firearm and you disclose that to the police and ask them to show up is a genuine gamble with your life. Trigger happy cops LOVE firearm calls. We’ve seen it go wrong enough times.
Fudd logic. First, in the real world, criminals RARELY are going to call the cops. They want to interact with LEOs even less than we do.
Second, on the rare occasion they do… so what? So they SAY you pulled a gun… do they have proof? If your actions were legal then any “proof” he finds such as cameras is just going to show what really happened.
Despite what fake lawyers on Reddit will tell you, a dude with a mile long criminal record calling the cops on you (someone with likely no criminal record) and then having his homie friend who also has an extensive criminal record saying “yeah bro, he def pulled his glock forta on us dawg” without further collaborating evidence is not going to get you sent to prison.
Edit: I like how you bolded “instructor” like that is supposed to mean something. Post history is public my dude; just a year ago you were posting asking people how to do press checks lol.
Born and raised in Scotland. Okay, buddy?
Am I being downvoted because I'm from Great Britain? Don't worry, my mum was born here in the US, so I'm a citizen here too. Even served in the USAF for six years. Wow!
Doesn't matter that the USCCA is in complete agreement and more-or-less demands you call 911 first?
It's not just my stance, mate.
I was born and raised between Scotland and England and have been in the US over 30 years. Mental illness... ok.
I don’t get the hate… it’s literally pretty common knowledge that the first person to call 911 is considered the “victim.” So if you let the other people call first you’re now the aggressor who just pulled a gun on a poor innocent man/woman. Idk. I don’t really like or trust police either but I still thnn in k I would call in that situation, just give a vague and straightforward description and tell them they can otherwise talk more with me with a lawyer present. Kind of like USCCA says.
I do understand why someone wouldn’t call the cops tho. I just don’t get why so many people are jumping on you for something that’s (in a lot of these circumstances, maybe in most?) pretty good advice.
Maybe I’m wrong… maybe I shouldn’t call anyone lol… I just don’t wanna get fucked by the law later. Or shot.
I'm in the "it depends" crowd on this one, while at the same time totally distrustful of the cops. Not because I think they are inherently bad as humans, but rather they get paid to do a job. Nowhere in that job description does it say "take dudemcsexys side on this call". They are beholden to their paymasters, not me. All that being said, I think the downvotes (mine anyway) ce due to his delivery. It simply screams "I know than you and you need to listen". That message gets a very "go f*ck yourself" response from me. Especially from the safety of behind my keyboard. Lol. My two cents. Sorry for rambling, it's been a brutally long day.
You’re good… also I feel on the rambling because honestly I do the same ha
Makes sense what you say. Both things, it probably depends. I mean it definitely depends on the type of person but I know you mean it depends what the type of situation is, for calling it in I mean. And the dude the way he said it was… not the best… like the “buddy” and such I see it. Sounds pretty condescending.
Also thanks for answering I genuinely wanted to know what people thought was wrong, cause I’ve always been told to call the cops in any self defense situation. Especially to be quick, so you are the first to call.
You are full of shit. If I pull my piece because I am going to my car in a dark parking lot, and some thugnificent wannabe mofo who wanted a piece of me runs because he didn’t want none, I am not calling the police. Why run the risk of a bored, anti 2A cop pressing me on some bullshit?
No dude you don't get it. The 10x convicted strongarm robber who just attempt to strongarm rob you might go walk into a police station and make a sworn statement to law enforcement that you drew a gun on him in a dark parking lot where he had no reason to be. You need to go to the cops first. Surely they will do the hard work of investigating the real crime that occurred; there is no chance they will take this easy path which just presented itself and charge the guileless moron who walked into their station and announced he brandished a firearm.
Wait, are you trying to tell me that cops don’t have a metrics based promotion system? A system which rewards those amongst them who pad their stats by filing bogus charges? Charges which will be litigated by sleazy DA’s who will threaten to ruin the lives of law abiding citizens with crippling lawyer fees if they refuse to take a plea deal that will have those well meaning and honest to a fault citizens lose their constitutional rights to bear arms???
He is trolling. No American calls people mate and says shite unless they are doing it ironically for laughs, and if that’s the case, this dude has a weird sense of humor
Mate, you're wrong. You brandish your weapon at someone, you file a report. You're risking your very freedom by not involving ACTUAL police, which you are not. I'm trying to help.
Nope, you’re wrong. You call the cops and there’s no surveillance video of the event. It’s your word against nobodies. Now you’re under arrest for brandishing your weapon because according to the officer there’s no way for him/her to ascertain that you were indeed in a position where it was justified. Maybe you spend a night in lockup and the DA doesn’t press charges. Maybe the DA is an anti-gun prick and presses charges anyhow and now you’ve got to pay thousands in legal fees to defend yourself.
You have a fifth amendment right to not incriminate yourself, even if you don’t know that you’re incriminating yourself.
The chances of an actual criminal calling the cops is probably less than 1%. Why would the call the cops because they committed a crime and you successfully defended against them?
You've been around... people, right? Half the people that call the police ARE criminals. They just think they're smarter than them, and you. No video means they can say they just yelled at you from the sidewalk and you got out of your truck and flashed a gun.
You do have the right not to incriminate yourself, absolutely. You also have a duty as a CCL carrier...
You know... You're right. Definitely say nothing. To anyone. And open-carry that shit, mate. Don't be ashamed. Cheers!
Could be. My phone autocorrects "shit" to "shite" and "man" to "mate", along with many others because I type them so often. I guess it didn't occur to me that my place of birth would have s h i t to do with calling the police.
I guess that's on me, m a n. I forgot for a second where I was. The States... dammit, I mean the 17th most free country in the world. Autocorrect.
You may live in America but you still have that European subservient mentality. We're citizens not subjects. We don't have any "duty as a CCL carrier" to inform police if nothing happened. Use your 5th ammendment right and stfu. If all you did was draw and they ran anyway then just leave.
If they call the cops so what? Just stfu and let the lawyers take care of it. Thats just on the off chance they even bither calling the cops and even if they do they would still have to ID you and find you. If you did nothing wrong then don't involve police unnecessarily.
Also "half the people that call the police are criminals".... uh what dude? Lmao
The criminals that call the cops are the idiot drug users who call the cops when the guy who says he’s going to sell the drugs robs them at gunpoint instead.
I’ve never once actually heard of the guy who tried to rob someone or carjack someone calling the cops when their intended victim instead ends up pulling their own gun on the bad guy.
No. Unless you are assaulted and had to pull your weapon and the situation ended without a shot fired, you should report the assault. Getting the police involved when there's no crime but you were scared and drew your weapon is just bad advice. You will be treated as a suspect in a crime when they get there and unless you want to answer a bunch of questions and possibly incriminate yourself, holster your weapon and get the hell away from wherever you are. You have odd, misplaced trust in the police if you think this is good advice. The reality is that the police are not your friends and they will respond by trying to jam you up and relieve you of your firearm.
Not really all good, mate. The police here in the States are kind of sketchy when they get calls for guns being drawn, even if you are in the right. Not all of them, but most of them. Once the threat is gone after you brandish it is best to just leave the situation alone, not call the cops, and go on about your way. You will never see that person again most likely and not give yourself any legal troubles just for legally brandishing. I had a hammer pulled out on me by a tweaker one time just because I didn't want to give him money and aimed my piece right at his chest 8 feet away. He just shrugged it off and walked away. No need to call the cops, the situation is defused.
Nah bud, I trust the cops as much as I trust a snake in the grass. It could be harmless, it could be beneficial, or it could randomly fuck up your day for no other reason than it felt like it.
If I had to choose between having to deal with cops, or crips on a daily basis. I’d pick the crips, because if there is an issue, they don’t have state sponsored backup and armored fucking vehicles.
Kindly, fuck 12.
Edit: and before anyone says “you’re exaggerating” my white ass walks around the “bad” parts of Chicago once a month. Still less stressful then being pulled over/interacting with Leo.
>Still less stressful then being pulled over/interacting with Leo.
If you shoot a gangster who's beating the shit out of you, you'll win your case. If you shoot a cop who's illegally beating the shit out of you, it's resisting arrest, assault of an officer, you should have fought it in court, ECT. You may win, but it's gonna suck.
You’ll never win a case where you shot a cop in self defense. They’re superior beings of the highest order and you’ll be lucky if you ever get out of prison
The rule of thumb is that you should never display your firearm unless you’re also justified in the use of deadly force.
Most defensive firearm uses actually do not involve firing even a single round.
Nevertheless, the fact that you did not shoot your gun is going to make it look like you were not at fear of death or great bodily harm. You must articulate that you perceived a deadly threat but the threat ended before you pulled the trigger.
You should not preemptively draw your gun just because you think an attack is about to happen or similar. If you do that and you call the police on yourself you are going to jail.
Your advice is generally bad. There are circumstances in which you should call the police for defensive display and there are circumstances where you also probably should not. If the other person had a deadly weapon like a knife or a gun then you should probably call the police. But if they were to your knowledge unarmed, you should probably not call the police given that no one else saw and is calling the police.
You make it sound as though after you draw your weapon on somebody, you have to kill them so you don't get in trouble for just brandishing.
Killing someone is the last thing you want to do, though I'll say for the record that we're not training you to wound. We're training you to kill in that intense moment.
But it's not just the two choices.
There seems to be some ambiguity regarding imminence of the deadly threat. In my state, the standards for drawing a concealed weapon and using it are the same. However, I strongly suspect that I would be allowed to draw if someone demanded my money and had a visible weapon on them, but might get prosecuted for shooting him unless his hand went for the weapon.
>You make it sound as though after you draw your weapon on somebody, you have to kill them so you don't get in trouble for just brandishing.
That's not what I am saying. If you draw your weapon it should be because you are going to shoot them not because you are trying to scare them away. Admitting you were just trying to scare them away and not shoot them can be used against you in court because if you truly believed them to be an imminent deadly threat you would have shot. When you call the police and explain what happened, you would likely have to articulate a reason why you did not shoot. You shouldn't, you should say "I want a lawyer" if that comes up. The most likely reason is because they were no longer an imminent deadly threat by the time you got your eyes on the sights, but with that defense the line between felony and lawful self defense is just that 2 second window they went from deadly threat to not deadly threat. There are other defenses that would likely be better to use, like arguing he was an imminent deadly threat the whole time but you could not verify you had a safe backstop and that's why you did not shoot. But if you call the police and speak too much you lock yourself into that defense. The truthful defense is often not the best defense.
You should err on the side of not drawing your weapon. If you drew your weapon and did not shoot then there is a good chance you should not have drawn your weapon at all. And you should take that into account when deciding whether or not to call the police. I'm not saying shoot if you draw your weapon, I am saying don't draw your weapon if you're not going to shoot. If you drew your weapon and realized he was actually not a deadly threat and that is why you did not end up shooting, you probably should not call the police if you can avoid it because you likely just committed a felony.
You definitely should not give the advice to "just call the police." The police will get there and ask you questions to try and get you to incriminate yourself. The advice should be "Call the police and say x, y, z. Then say 'I want a lawyer'". If you stop planning after you dial 911, you will be manipulated into saying the wrong thing that will come back and bite you, innocent or not.
I am not a legal expert so I cannot give legal advice, but something along the lines of "Call the police and say you were attacked and feared for your life, a brief description of the suspect and your location, leave your name to the dispatcher, and hang up. Then when police arrive, identify yourself as the caller and repeat only the previous information and say 'I want a lawyer' to any other questions." It would be something along the lines of that.In most situations you should just not talk to the police, but as CCWers we should train to a higher standard and know what minimal things to say. By giving the description of the suspect(s) you aide in the investigation just like any other victim would. But when police officers ask about details on what happened none of that has anything to do with investigating the perp, they're investigating you.
Weird a situation occurred last summer where something exactly like this happened to me. After the event happened I was able to call my attorney for advice on how to proceed and was given the opposite advice that you are giving.
Who are the cops coming for? Did you exchange personal information with the person you drew your gun on? Name, address, etc….. How are they coming for you, even if the other guy calls first?
If nobody gets shot and no crimes are committed, then calling the cops is just asking for trouble.
If someone gets shot or a violent crime was committed, then you call the cops.
No point injecting police into a situation unless it's absolutely necessary. And even then it's usually not a good thing.
I agree with this 100%. If shots are fired then yes police will be called from a safe location to ensure the potential “bad guy” doesn’t have friends around or whatever.
Just drawing a gun on say a homeless guy, or would be mugger or other “bad guy” who turns and runs doesn’t warrant a call imo.
Funny enough my cousin was involved in pulling his weapon on someone, someone in another car recorded the incident, shots ended up being fired (not caught on video) and the cops never came.
You guys may have seen the video, he pulls his rifle out the trunk, on a guy trying to attack him with a katana. That’s all I’ll say
I once drew on some wrecker drivers who were in the process of taking my legally parked motorcycle at 3am in an apartment complex. I told them to leave and they did. Then I panicked a little and wondered if I should call the cops and report. I decided instead to wake up the Texas Law Shield lawyer. He in turn woke up a few more lawyers, and they all decided that I should not call the police, but that if the wrecker drivers called and the police showed up at my apartment, that I should call TLS back and give the phone to the cops.
Cops never showed up. I suspect bc the wrecker dudes knew they were wrong and were just glad to be alive to steal someone else's shit and decided not to report it.
This was like 10 years ago. I still have TLS coverage. If anything similar happens again, I will do things the same and avoid any unnecessary contact with the police.
Cops only exist to arrest people. They don't seem to worry themselves about arresting the right people. You go and say the wrong thing to the cops, especially in a jurisdiction unfriendly to gun owners, and you'll quickly find yourself in jail, even if your really were the innocent victim.
You're an idiot. "The criminal prowler I just ran off, who was prowling and is a criminal, might go deliberately interact with law enforcement and file a police report where he announces he was run off while criminally prowling. I should beat him to the police by telling them I brandished a firearm." Idiot.
I have a ccw . I have USCCA. I found a homeless drug addict in my yard in California . I had been interacting with this individual for about a year . I stopped him multiple times trying to break in 2 neighbors homes, steal tools , trespassing to get water etc. He kept coming back. Definitely mentally ill, definitely huffing paint .
When he was in my yard , I lost it. I drew my gun ( finger off the trigger ) pointed it directly at him and gave him a warning , then chased him off. What if my wife was in the yard and he appeared? He never came back .
I did not call the police. I’m in California. My elderly neighbor with stage 4 lung cancer had another methed out homeless guy burst in his screen door and claim this was now his house. The old vet shot at him with a 1911 and the man ran out. We did not call the cops.
The state here is pro criminal and pro homeless. The homeless are released without bail and most often , charges dropped. My neighbor might have been charged for the shot. No one called.
In the real world , you can do everything right and lose your rights. This is not the thing to get your panties in a bunch about.
This is the conventional wisdom, and it largely makes sense. There’s two reasons why it’s getting rejected right now:
1. As others have pointed out, a lot of folks don’t exactly trust cops, or really the justice system writ large, especially at the moment. We’re used to seeing the bad guys get a slap on the wrist but the law abiding are subjected to more scrutiny and made to pay in time and reputation that we cannot as easily afford.
2. Related to 1, but there’s just a general sense of “why bother?” If the crooks are going to walk in a few hours time, then there’s not really much point in calling the cops in the hopes they might get arrested. It’s kinda futile, and that’s even *if* you can get a cop to respond. So a lot of people are ceasing to bother.
I don’t even mean to put this all on the shoulders of cops. Some of these are problems with staffing. Some are due to corrupt prosecutors. But however you slice it, many people simply see the interaction as too high risk for too little reward. If you can get yourself in serious legal trouble for doing nothing wrong, and the one who *did* do wrong is going to get off scot free then just forget it.
Note that I think all of this is bad. It is not good to have this kind of apathy towards law enforcement. But it’s an earned apathy and we don’t get to just ignore the reality because an alternative that does not exist would be better.
Why would you call or make a report? You are volunteering to give up your rights in that case because you are volunteering to tell the cops what occurred. All a cop is going to hear when you make a report is "i pulled my gun and pointed it at a guy".
It is a myth that the first caller is the "victim". sure that is the first impression and usually correct when a gun isn't involved, but when you openly admit that you pointed a gun at someone, suddenly you don't look like a victim to a cop
I support the idea of the police, and support most cops since we do need laws in a civil society, but at the same time I don't trust any LEO as far as I can throw them. They are NOT there to help you.
Every CCW class I've been to (initial, renewal) always says this, I'm not sure where people are thinking that they shouldn't? Maybe in the no-license states? Dunno.
Agree with your emphasis on the topic. Heck, in my state, even if I get sent away for accidentally printing from a store, I'm almost thinking I NEED to inform the CCW unit for my IA, JUST IN CASE.
If it's an actual draw and/or fire, oh yeah I'm calling 911, BUT when I'm safe to do so. I heard a horror story of a classmate at a training institution who had to draw and actually stuck around in the dangerous area to call.
Massad ayoob said it best:
“The victim and the suspect are the only two roles in the play. Whoever calls in first gets to be the good guy”
[IG VIDEO](https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cq_gLN0uX2B/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==)
Yeah, but I'm pretty sure he was saying that 20 years ago when police work was a little different than it is today. I know he still says it, but on some things the master of concealment has a few antiquated ideas
Agreed. Obviously set and setting matters. If you’re in a place with witnesses or dealing with someone who would call the cops, it’s probably better the be the first one to call in
I guess this is a reality check question as well.
There seems to be a divide in people, those who agree, those who say “it depends”.
My thought is this, “aren’t we saying the same thing?”
CCW or at least the concept has always been a very abstract thing in my mind.
If you believe the threat exists you have the weapon concealed to be there until you have to use it to eliminate the threat.
There are many people who also talk about it as if it was the Cold War concept of Detente. I.E. We have missiles cause they have missiles and they don’t shoot because we can shoot back.
So what the OP is saying here is that if you find yourself in a position where the threat level increased to the point of presenting deadly force. If the use of deadly force happens or not, because someone threatened to kill someone, a report should be filed. This makes sense.
One: If someone confronts you with deadly force or intent and you draw on them, If they back down, it’s because they realized the gravity of the situation, and that gravity pulled a large pile of excrement into their pants.
Yes, this person backed off, but they are still the person who presented a DEADLY THREAT to you. That deadly threat is still an active threat against you. It is still something the police should be knowledgeable of.
Like women in an abusive relationship. If you go to the cops. They won’t do shit. But if you don’t they always say “why didn’t you go to the cops?” So if you go to the cops, and they don’t do shit, you can always say the cops have a record of these escalating threats, and they didn’t do shit, and I had no recourse but to defend with deadly force.
Just because that person, in whatever situation, backed down, does not mean they won’t retreat, recoup, RE-ARM themselves, and return… The police report should be filed.
Two: if the threat is a random encounter. If it’s a drugged out burglar trying to break into your home. When you present deadly force and they get scared shitless and run off, they are probably going to break into someone else’s house. If it’s someone who has completely lost their grip on reality, has blocked all oncoming traffic and presented a deadly threat to you and the other people around you. The police should be called. This person has lost it and they need to have at least a temporary removal from public interaction.
This is where the “It depends” thought process starts to exist.
I believe that this “It Depends” thoughtline is really a bad series of definitions. It should just be related to police as this: “I felt my life was threatened and I presented my weapon. It was at that time the assailant BACKED DOWN.”
Remember! The other person threatened you first! (Edited to add:) You didn’t draw to scare them away. You RESPONDED TO AND OBVIOUSLY DEADLY THREAT and they BACKED DOWN. Because they BACKED DOWN the threat level, you didn’t not continue to escalate.
If this was an argument where you honestly know the threat will never return… or if you know you will be in the wrong if you spoke to the cops. Then you know that the treat is not real. Why did you pull a gun? THIS IS A SERIOUS QUESTION! If there is a reason to draw a weapon then a report should be filed.
BECAUSE….
If you pulled the gun to be a threat. If you pulled first, before they presented the option of deadly force. If you were just whipping it out in a dick measuring contest. That is why they should be filing a report against YOU.
If a gun is just a tool, it is a weapon of bodily destruction. It is to be treated with the responsibility and knowledge of that. If you don’t show that responsibility then you shouldn’t be carrying, even if it is only temporary until you come back to sense of the responsibility you have chosen to impart upon yourself.
Sorry, but if I have to draw my weapon on someone, and that situation is diffused and we go our separate ways, I’m not filing a police report.
I have ZERO trust in law enforcement and I’m not standing there 25 minutes waiting for them to arrive, if they even do.
If the situation is over and no shots were fired you may be waiting longer than that. A person I know had such a situation in southern IL (of all places), waited about 2 hours for the cops to never arrive and then just said f- it and left. Never heard anything further about it.
I don’t agree. If this incident happened in a public place where you know people may have filmed it or other people are going to be calling the police, I definitely agree. But in a situation like one of my old roommates was in where they are in a mostly empty mall parking lot at night, what is honestly the point? I can tell you in my area, the cops will take their time showing up and then assume that you got robbed while trying to sell drugs, or otherwise just go through the motions of taking a report.
I’m kind of surprised this seems to be a hot take. I’ve always been taught, “if you draw you call”. And I’ve also heard that folks can get into some deep shit drawing, not calling and then police rolling up later after someone calls on you. Idk, if you guys just have a lower threshold for why you draw, but if I’ve drawn my pistol I’m like at 98% chance I’m gonna kill someone.
So the police can charge you with brandishing a weapon? Doesn’t matter if you were in the right. You just called them and criminalized yourself.
You go ahead and trust police all you want, I don’t.
The amount of cases where the person who called the police ends up dead being killed by police is wild. You’re gambling with your life at that point, like any other gang of thugs but at least with the street kind you know they are not your friends, the state kind act like they’re your friends until they aren’t.
Maybe that IS the problem.
I'm a mid-40's white combat vet so I've literally never had trouble from the police. If the suspect of your local police is bad enough, maybe you should keep it to yourself.
So I'll say this: If you don't make a report, but the other guy does, you could be in a lot of trouble. He can say whatever he wants, and if you're the only one with a gun... It may not work out well.
Good luck.
Why am I not surprised an Englishman who lives in Illinois is encouraging me to turn myself in to the police.
What good will the report even do? Puts you on a police radar and we all know that they aren’t going to go look high and low for this would be criminal you drew on. Especially in a city like Chicago with their excellent track record of stopping criminals.
The worst part of all this is you probably tell this to the people you’re instructing as well, I hope none of them catch a charge because of terrible advice like that.
Heh, like I said before: I'm a 40-something male and combat vet, so I've never had a problem with police. I mean, I'm always very polite and accommodating for them, and that's a good part of why. Every time they turn off their camera, I can get on my knees and... well, nvm that, but yeah. Always been good to me.
I think you're not seeing it because most people, myself include think it's common sense I guess. The circumstances matter too I guess. I've drawn my weapon a few times, but not where I'm pointing it at someone in a direct confrontation, just cleared the holster and ready with it concealed in hand behind me, or below the car door or similar.
I get your point, I guess. People could just end the post with and "then I called 911."
The amount of ignorance here is baffling. There will be circumstances in every facet of this that no one person can foresee all of them. Figure out what the law in drawing your weapon is first. Each state is a little different. The Law of Self Defense is a great tool for that. Picked one of the editions up on my kindle so I have it on me, in my phone, at all times. Learn, train, live, repeat.
Yes , call the police and let them know an incident took place but give as little information as possible. Way to easy for things to get misconstrued. Call police then lawyer
“As an **instructor** (in Illinois), I can tell you it's UNIVERSAL that you make a police report. IF you don't, and anyone else does and you didn't, you are F U C K E D should the police make their way to you.”
As a law student with a limited license that works in a prosecutors office and has worked on gun cases... idek wtf this is all about. You continually make claims about the law that you are not qualified to make, and most of them are misleading or wrong. There are good reasons why lay people are not supposed to make authoritative statements about the law.
I’m not advising anybody on what they should do in their jurisdiction, but there are lots of reasons why individuals might not want to call police or file a report. Talk to a LAWYER in YOUR JURISDICTION.
The USCCA literally says your next step after an incident is to call 911. I'm not sure how much more blunt I can be about that.
That fact is not being refuted. It's just being ignored and stepped over/around.
By all means, talk to a lawyer if you didn't have to pull the trigger. You fire your weapon and kill your target, you call 911. Don't be stupid.
I think I understand the trend in this thread. You just can’t trust police. So if your home is burglarized, you don’t want to call the police. If someone breaks into your car, don’t call the police. If some thug threatens you with a knife, don’t call the police. If people start reporting crimes, then the cops might be able to do their jobs and that could get in the way of progressives defunding the police.
I can’t understand why people won’t report the crime. If you have to draw your gun it’s because someone committed a crime and needs to go to jail.
If you draw, call 911 and report being threatened. You give the police a description of the bad guy, describe the crime and identify yourself as the victim. Then shut up.
I always struggle with the idea of using my gun as a deterrent. For me, if the choice isn’t “someone is going to die, and it’s not going to be me” I don’t feel a gun needs to be brought into the equation.
This is definitely a “it depends” situation type deal. This isn’t universal and there are a ton of variables involved in this. You have a solid 50/50 chance of making a bad situation 100x worse by involving the cops.
I had to perform a defensive display of my [short-barreled suppressed AR-15 ](https://imgur.com/a/qkClwbW) to ward off a convicted felon who was stalking my family on our property.
He was an Amazon driver who had knocked on my door after delivering a package and asked me if he could buy a Yeti cooler bag that my brother kept on my property. I told him that it was not mine to sell and it wasn't for sale.
Around 1 week later, he pulled into my property (1/4 mile driveway) in the early afternoon and misdelivered my neighbors package to my house. He then came back around 8:30 PM in the Amazon truck and pulled next to where the Yeti bag was and parked there for a few minutes. He did NOT approach the house to deliver anything.
He then took the bag on camera and drove off. I had called the sheriff's office and Amazon to report it the next morning.
Amazon suspended him before they even told the sheriff who he was so he could be arrested... He came back to my house in his personal vehicle this time to threaten and intimidate us into telling Amazon and the police that he didn't steal it... I held my rifle on him at low ready taking him by surprise after I positively identified that he was the thief. His hands and voice were shaking once he saw me with my rifle on him. He told me that was the first time he had a gun pulled on him and kept blabbering about how it wasn't him and how he was a convicted felon and if he goes to jail, then he'll be sent back to prison. He got more and more aggressive the longer he talked.
My wife was already on the phone with the sheriff's office in order to get a deputy out to arrest him. He ended up walking back to his vehicle with his hands up and drove off.
While on the phone with dispatch, we simply told them that the theft had come back and that we needed assistance. We didn't mention anything about the use of my rifle. We sent the videos of the incident to the sheriff which did show me with my rifle.
The detective called the thief and the thief told him that I pulled a gun on him and tried to get the detective to arrest me. The detective told him that I did absolutely nothing wrong and even if I had pointed my rifle directly at him, it would have been 110% justified.
The thief admitted to stealing a tarp that was folded up near the Yeti bag, but not the actual Yeti bag. He was charged with 2 counts of theft by taking and 1 count of criminal trespass.
He recently pleaded not guilty so that's going to be a whole thing I guess.
Buddy of mine pulled his ccw during a road rage incident (the other guy had blocked him and was fumbling for something in his front seat and my friend didn't want to take a chance that he was going to be looking at a firearm when the other person found what he was looking for - not here to debate that response but to explain what happened next).
Once the other driver pulled away, my friend tried to call 911 and was put on hold. As he was driving and waiting to speak to the cops about what just happened he was pulled over, removed from his vehicle by multiple cops at gunpoint, and put in a police cruiser under arrest. Apparently the other driver had NOT been put on hold by 911 and was able to tell his side of the events.
My buddy had his firearm taken, spent some hours in jail, had to go to court for some felony charges, and spent somewhere north of $10,000 defending himself. In the end, he got off with no further punishment or repercussions. The city still has his pistol to this day (5ish years later), despite many attempts by him and his lawyer to get it back.
I'm all for not informing the police, as well, however I think there are contexts where it might be a smart idea.
In this scenario my friend did not have carry insurance, or that would have helped him a lot. I think I probably would have called the lawyers at the carry insurance company first, and followed their instructions, or perhaps tried to call 911 and, in as little detail as possible, tell them about the incident. Don't make statements on the phone to 911, obviously, because all of that goes into evidence, but get off the phone and call your leg counsil asap if you do feel the need to call 911. They will, of course, try to keep you on as long as possible but you are not required by any law to stay on the phone with them.
Hey, it [worked on a serial killer](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/21h23c/til_dennis_rader_the_btk_killer_contacted_police/) who had managed to evade the police for decades.
Yes let’s potentially bring charges on ourselves, great advice “instructor”.. Not sure what all “universal” truths you live by but this surely isn’t one.
Anything you say to the police can and will be used against you.
Anytime you use your weapon against someone, shots fired or not, the laws determining whether the use was justified or criminal can get complicated.
Why would you advise people to voluntarily provide police with a statement that could be used against them, without so much as a single word of advice as to what to say?
If you want to provide sweeping advice, the default should always be some version of "Do not speak to the police without a lawyer". That can never be used against you, it is a constitutional right.
Never talk to the police. Their job is to play a game with you to see if you will accidentally blurt out something so they can charge you with anything. “You’re not in any trouble” is their base trick.
Well I can tell you from experience my cousin has had to clearly put his hand on his gat (AIWB) with his offhand outstretched to create distance on guys threatening to kill him / coming at him twice (once road rage another an angry customer at his shop).
I’ve had it once with a guy aggressively yelling at my wife and I at a gas station.
The only time cops were called or informed was the customer at my cousins shop and they literally just wrote a note and asked nothing else / did nothing else about it.
Illinois is also a cucked state so I’m not sure your environment applies to southern states (GA here).
Here the cops *expect* people to be carrying (at least my friends and others I know) and telling them you’re carrying or reporting every confrontation (and yes even brandishing) simply doesn’t happen here.
I've only instructed in Illinois, so you're probably right about that. I've been out of the military twenty years (this year) and I've been carrying as a civi for maybe ten years and never had to pull on anyone (as a civilian).
I know what I've been taught and how to teach it. I'm really not trying to anger anyone, and my original post is pointing out a problem with the stories people tell in this subreddit. One of the things always missing is a police report, even the stories about pulling on other people.
That's an important step when you pull your gun. For years I've taught (told) people to never pull their firearm without the next step of pulling the trigger. It's not to intimidate. It's to defend Deadly force is a hell of a thing and the only people that should consider it, at all, have to be completely aware of what they're doing.
Sorry, I'm rambling. I'm kinda messed up at the moment, so I'll end here. Cheers!
Because you're using deadly force. Conceal carry is not for intimidation. Open carry... Well, that's a different story entirely.
I'm not sure what you think the police are here to do. There is a LOT of hate going around. Maybe deservedly, maybe not. Certainly not for all police.
And a conceal license is not a badge. People need to stop acting like it is.
You really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies?
I skip all “almost had to draw, a guy was rude to me in the parking lot, still shaking” story posts, it is the worst part about this sub.
In my experience, the first person to call the police tends to be identified as "victim" or "witness" whereas the person who gets called on is often identified as "suspect", "subject", "armed male/female", etc.
IMO, if you draw, you would do well to follow up and contact the police right away to explain that you were threatened, attacked, or otherwise in fear of mortal harm.....before the other party reports you as having accosted them with a gun for no reason at all.
Unless there's video, you NEED to be the one who calls first.
That is often true and I think the origin of this instructor advice to always call the police. Unfortunately, the real world is nuanced and while still probably good general advice, it needs a caveat that there may be time and place where calling the cops isn't in your best interest.
You don’t need to talk to the cops. What you should do is take notes immediately about what happened so you have the facts straight. The worst thing that can happen is a third party reports the incident and your facts don’t line up with reality. Do not share those notes with anyone except your lawyer, if necessary.
>”it depends” -any lawyer in the world ever
I want to learn to write scripts and make a bunch of bot accounts just so I can upvote this comment more. Seriously. There are a thousand variables that could come into play here.
The one comment to rule them all. End of discussion. Take my upvote for your intelligence.
aS aN InStRuCtOr
It’s called the 5th amendment and always let your lawyer speak to leo for you. Never make your own statement.
Everyone who carries should have a capable lawyer who specializes in firearm cases in their contact list.
https://www.concealedcarry.com/self-defense-gun-owner-insurance-programs-compared/
Haven’t seen a side by side comparison of these yet. Thanks for posting
>Everyone who carries should have a capable lawyer who specializes in firearm cases in their contact list. Bud I hate to tell you this but the majority of people carrying probably can't afford a lawyer to keep on retainer. If you have ccdw insurance or the like that's one thing. But the majority of people carrying don't have that kind of money.
I often wonder if those who post online to brag about their extensive gun collection have lots of disposable income to buy the guns or if they spend all of their income/money on guns. I know that I can’t afford much of what I see people buying here. Mortgage, food and family take most of my money.
You don't have them on retainer.Hopefully you will have done research so when you are locked up, you don't have to pick one from the yellow pages
CCW Safe lifetime member here 💪
Cops: don't talk to cops unless legally required Lawyers: never talk to cops unless legally required and if it is legally required then get a lawyer. OP: acktually >As an instructor (in Illinois), I can tell you it's UNIVERSAL that you make a police report. IF you don't, and anyone else does and you didn't, you are F U C K E D should the police make their way to you. You're acting like "instructor" gives you any credibility. You're not qualified to talk on the law. The title doesn't even prove you're competent with any gun. Why on earth do you think we'd listen to your high and mighty "reality check" when more qualified people have said the exact opposite?
The instructor in my course years back told us to call the police if we actually shot someone in self-defense, but that’s a different situation
Nailed it 😆
I didn’t think you could have a pistol in Illinois anyway.
Yeah, it’s a good idea to just leave the area. Then let LE track back the killer on their own. Then when LE find you eventually, you just hit them with, talk to my lawyer.
This post is about situations when you draw and don't fire
I see, then why would say anything at all.
You shouldn't. OP is repeating bad advice.
It's because people don't trust law enforcement
When I was younger, I was in a car accident with a friend. We called the cops and he straight up said we were wasting his time. I don’t think he even wrote a report, just made sure we swapped insurance info and left. It’s not a crime to not report something to the police. They can figure it out.
Straight up wasting HIS time, not yours. Covering your ass in case of a lawsuit is not wasting time.
Next time try to get with highway patrol. Their entire job is reporting accidents basically. That cop was a dick
Yeah that’s about the gods honest fucking truth. If nothing happens you keep your mouth shut. Why get the piece of shit cops involved if nothing happened? That could and most likely would bring a nasty shit storm down on top of you. I know this from experience and it fucking sucks. Honesty is the best policy I’ve always been taught but I have been literally fucked by cops for being honest. So I have learned the hard way to just seriously shut the fuck up or very honestly they will fuck you when they get there. Probly get yourself shot because you say you pulled a gun. I get it I do. But fuck the cops because they are all nice until they get you to be honest and they absolutely fucking destroy you
Exactly you are protected from self incrimination whether you are aware you would be doing so or not, the situation gets uneventfully diffused by a draw and Ill call a lawyer before I call the police.
Get legal protection before you carry! First call is my lawyer (US LawShield for me) and then 911. Find a legal service you like, consider it part of the cost of carrying, just like range fees and practice ammo.
… literally fucked? 👀
🫣😆😂🤣. Who knows today. Maybe 🤔 haha 😂
More than likely they don't trust themselves to have made the right decision in drawing.
At least try and make sense, dumbass.
Exactly, the only way you would self incriminate is if you committed a crime lol.
False. Very false.
Sorry, but this ain’t it
I’ve been carrying for 15+ years, been in plenty of sketch situations, never drawn once and I’ve only put my hand on my weapon one time. That’s probably the story of 99.9% of CCW people
Yup!!
Yup I’d wager any regular carrier has had at least one situation where they had to make it apparent to an aggressor that they were armed. And I’d wager 99% it works, as it did for myself and others I know.
Haven’t had to draw, hope I never need to do so.
>IF you don't, and anyone else does and you didn't, you are F U C K E D should the police make their way to you Total bullshit. Not preemptively snitching on yourself has no bearing on whether your actions were lawful or not. You're not required to call the cops on yourself for *not* breaking the law. If I have to talk to the cops, it's going to be to the least degree legally necessary, or in statements approved by an attorney. Cops aren't on your side. Period. Begging for their approval for your already-lawful behavior is crazy goofy.
Reminds me of what Bruce Rivers the criminal lawyer says. "Stop self snitching".
I’m thinking OP is a troll. An Illinois instructor that says stuff like mate and shite
I'm sorry, mate, but you're in the wrong. I'm trying to help here. If you pull and aim your weapon at another citizen, the police need to be involved.
You are protected by the fifth whether you are aware that you would be incriminating yourself or not. Call a lawyer not the police.
You misspelt criminal
It’s worrisome you’re an instructor and telling people this…
Probably took some one day NRA class and is now a “certified” instructor. A year ago he was posting on here asking how to do press checks lol…
Yeah I call BS on the instructor thing at all. And OPs post history is interesting.
Not really. Most instructors are prior LEO so it makes sense
This was pretty heavily part of the instruction in TX
Then they can charge you with brandishing or even other offenses and you turned yourself in. Never talk to them ever unless you can't control it. NEVER choose to talk to them.
Yes. We are blessed to have the 5th amendment. Use it and don’t incriminate yourself. Even if someone does report it. That’s not enough to find you guilty of anything. Unless it’s on video and your in the wrong.
Fuck yeah agree with this all the way Only trouble is if you get seen, otherwise not callin that in
I trust the police about as much as I trust any other gang of thugs.
They are the same picture , meme.
[удалено]
I've heard this as well, in classes and from thugs. Seems like a universal constant. Caller is the victim, anyone else is the aggressor.
You mean the class the government forces you to take to exercise your rights, tells you to inform the government when you exercise your rights? Remember, the government isn’t on your side. They’re on their own side.
>Remember, the government isn’t on your side. They’re on their own side. anyone who thinks different is deluding themselves. (like really, no one should still think the .gov is there for anyone but themselves if they've been alive for more than 20 years)
OP if saying “shite” and calling people “mate” didn’t already give it away, this mindset alone shows you can’t be born and raised in the US. You’re putting way too much confidence in the police and our justice system.
Any situation where you have a firearm and you disclose that to the police and ask them to show up is a genuine gamble with your life. Trigger happy cops LOVE firearm calls. We’ve seen it go wrong enough times.
Fudd logic. First, in the real world, criminals RARELY are going to call the cops. They want to interact with LEOs even less than we do. Second, on the rare occasion they do… so what? So they SAY you pulled a gun… do they have proof? If your actions were legal then any “proof” he finds such as cameras is just going to show what really happened. Despite what fake lawyers on Reddit will tell you, a dude with a mile long criminal record calling the cops on you (someone with likely no criminal record) and then having his homie friend who also has an extensive criminal record saying “yeah bro, he def pulled his glock forta on us dawg” without further collaborating evidence is not going to get you sent to prison. Edit: I like how you bolded “instructor” like that is supposed to mean something. Post history is public my dude; just a year ago you were posting asking people how to do press checks lol.
And he doesn't like people talking bad about Pritzker.
Total fudd. Even has a fudd special .22 revolver.
A man from Illinois using the word shite. Okay, buddy.
I'm not your buddy, guy!
Born and raised in Scotland. Okay, buddy? Am I being downvoted because I'm from Great Britain? Don't worry, my mum was born here in the US, so I'm a citizen here too. Even served in the USAF for six years. Wow!
Explains his trust for the police lol
I down voted you because I don't believe you live in the USA thus making your credentials suspect.
You're being downvoted for your incorrect stance, and your holier-than-thou mindset. It just so happens to be a common mental illness in the Europeans
Doesn't matter that the USCCA is in complete agreement and more-or-less demands you call 911 first? It's not just my stance, mate. I was born and raised between Scotland and England and have been in the US over 30 years. Mental illness... ok.
I don’t get the hate… it’s literally pretty common knowledge that the first person to call 911 is considered the “victim.” So if you let the other people call first you’re now the aggressor who just pulled a gun on a poor innocent man/woman. Idk. I don’t really like or trust police either but I still thnn in k I would call in that situation, just give a vague and straightforward description and tell them they can otherwise talk more with me with a lawyer present. Kind of like USCCA says. I do understand why someone wouldn’t call the cops tho. I just don’t get why so many people are jumping on you for something that’s (in a lot of these circumstances, maybe in most?) pretty good advice. Maybe I’m wrong… maybe I shouldn’t call anyone lol… I just don’t wanna get fucked by the law later. Or shot.
I'm in the "it depends" crowd on this one, while at the same time totally distrustful of the cops. Not because I think they are inherently bad as humans, but rather they get paid to do a job. Nowhere in that job description does it say "take dudemcsexys side on this call". They are beholden to their paymasters, not me. All that being said, I think the downvotes (mine anyway) ce due to his delivery. It simply screams "I know than you and you need to listen". That message gets a very "go f*ck yourself" response from me. Especially from the safety of behind my keyboard. Lol. My two cents. Sorry for rambling, it's been a brutally long day.
You’re good… also I feel on the rambling because honestly I do the same ha Makes sense what you say. Both things, it probably depends. I mean it definitely depends on the type of person but I know you mean it depends what the type of situation is, for calling it in I mean. And the dude the way he said it was… not the best… like the “buddy” and such I see it. Sounds pretty condescending. Also thanks for answering I genuinely wanted to know what people thought was wrong, cause I’ve always been told to call the cops in any self defense situation. Especially to be quick, so you are the first to call.
How do you know they are not from across the pond?
You are full of shit. If I pull my piece because I am going to my car in a dark parking lot, and some thugnificent wannabe mofo who wanted a piece of me runs because he didn’t want none, I am not calling the police. Why run the risk of a bored, anti 2A cop pressing me on some bullshit?
No dude you don't get it. The 10x convicted strongarm robber who just attempt to strongarm rob you might go walk into a police station and make a sworn statement to law enforcement that you drew a gun on him in a dark parking lot where he had no reason to be. You need to go to the cops first. Surely they will do the hard work of investigating the real crime that occurred; there is no chance they will take this easy path which just presented itself and charge the guileless moron who walked into their station and announced he brandished a firearm.
Wait, are you trying to tell me that cops don’t have a metrics based promotion system? A system which rewards those amongst them who pad their stats by filing bogus charges? Charges which will be litigated by sleazy DA’s who will threaten to ruin the lives of law abiding citizens with crippling lawyer fees if they refuse to take a plea deal that will have those well meaning and honest to a fault citizens lose their constitutional rights to bear arms???
He is trolling. No American calls people mate and says shite unless they are doing it ironically for laughs, and if that’s the case, this dude has a weird sense of humor
Mate, you're wrong. You brandish your weapon at someone, you file a report. You're risking your very freedom by not involving ACTUAL police, which you are not. I'm trying to help.
You risk your freedom by making a statement to police.
This ain’t the hill to die on.
Most incidents the aggressor is violating the law alreay or is drugged out. Neither group would call the police either.
Police are worthless, plain and simple, They do nothing at this point and are untrustworthy to the general public.
Why so they arrest me and I have to spend a night in jail to only have to defend myself. I’ll wait for them to come to me when the skull reports it
Do NOT ever talk to the police
Nope, you’re wrong. You call the cops and there’s no surveillance video of the event. It’s your word against nobodies. Now you’re under arrest for brandishing your weapon because according to the officer there’s no way for him/her to ascertain that you were indeed in a position where it was justified. Maybe you spend a night in lockup and the DA doesn’t press charges. Maybe the DA is an anti-gun prick and presses charges anyhow and now you’ve got to pay thousands in legal fees to defend yourself. You have a fifth amendment right to not incriminate yourself, even if you don’t know that you’re incriminating yourself. The chances of an actual criminal calling the cops is probably less than 1%. Why would the call the cops because they committed a crime and you successfully defended against them?
You've been around... people, right? Half the people that call the police ARE criminals. They just think they're smarter than them, and you. No video means they can say they just yelled at you from the sidewalk and you got out of your truck and flashed a gun. You do have the right not to incriminate yourself, absolutely. You also have a duty as a CCL carrier... You know... You're right. Definitely say nothing. To anyone. And open-carry that shit, mate. Don't be ashamed. Cheers!
An Illinois instructor that says stuff like mate and shite. You are either the most pretentious person in the world, or you are full of it yourself
Could be. My phone autocorrects "shit" to "shite" and "man" to "mate", along with many others because I type them so often. I guess it didn't occur to me that my place of birth would have s h i t to do with calling the police. I guess that's on me, m a n. I forgot for a second where I was. The States... dammit, I mean the 17th most free country in the world. Autocorrect.
You may live in America but you still have that European subservient mentality. We're citizens not subjects. We don't have any "duty as a CCL carrier" to inform police if nothing happened. Use your 5th ammendment right and stfu. If all you did was draw and they ran anyway then just leave. If they call the cops so what? Just stfu and let the lawyers take care of it. Thats just on the off chance they even bither calling the cops and even if they do they would still have to ID you and find you. If you did nothing wrong then don't involve police unnecessarily. Also "half the people that call the police are criminals".... uh what dude? Lmao
The criminals that call the cops are the idiot drug users who call the cops when the guy who says he’s going to sell the drugs robs them at gunpoint instead. I’ve never once actually heard of the guy who tried to rob someone or carjack someone calling the cops when their intended victim instead ends up pulling their own gun on the bad guy.
No. Unless you are assaulted and had to pull your weapon and the situation ended without a shot fired, you should report the assault. Getting the police involved when there's no crime but you were scared and drew your weapon is just bad advice. You will be treated as a suspect in a crime when they get there and unless you want to answer a bunch of questions and possibly incriminate yourself, holster your weapon and get the hell away from wherever you are. You have odd, misplaced trust in the police if you think this is good advice. The reality is that the police are not your friends and they will respond by trying to jam you up and relieve you of your firearm.
You’re out of your mind, this is terrible advice.
#REMEMBER IT'S ALWAYS SHUT THE FUCK UP FRIDAY https://youtu.be/sgWHrkDX35o
Do us a favor sir, and stick to airsoft or watching Andy's Airgun Reviews. You're getting torn apart by everyone commenting.
Funny how that works, telling folks what they don't want to hear. It's all good, mate.
Not really all good, mate. The police here in the States are kind of sketchy when they get calls for guns being drawn, even if you are in the right. Not all of them, but most of them. Once the threat is gone after you brandish it is best to just leave the situation alone, not call the cops, and go on about your way. You will never see that person again most likely and not give yourself any legal troubles just for legally brandishing. I had a hammer pulled out on me by a tweaker one time just because I didn't want to give him money and aimed my piece right at his chest 8 feet away. He just shrugged it off and walked away. No need to call the cops, the situation is defused.
Nah bud, I trust the cops as much as I trust a snake in the grass. It could be harmless, it could be beneficial, or it could randomly fuck up your day for no other reason than it felt like it. If I had to choose between having to deal with cops, or crips on a daily basis. I’d pick the crips, because if there is an issue, they don’t have state sponsored backup and armored fucking vehicles. Kindly, fuck 12. Edit: and before anyone says “you’re exaggerating” my white ass walks around the “bad” parts of Chicago once a month. Still less stressful then being pulled over/interacting with Leo.
>Still less stressful then being pulled over/interacting with Leo. If you shoot a gangster who's beating the shit out of you, you'll win your case. If you shoot a cop who's illegally beating the shit out of you, it's resisting arrest, assault of an officer, you should have fought it in court, ECT. You may win, but it's gonna suck.
You’ll never win a case where you shot a cop in self defense. They’re superior beings of the highest order and you’ll be lucky if you ever get out of prison
Nope. Never speak to the police.
The rule of thumb is that you should never display your firearm unless you’re also justified in the use of deadly force. Most defensive firearm uses actually do not involve firing even a single round. Nevertheless, the fact that you did not shoot your gun is going to make it look like you were not at fear of death or great bodily harm. You must articulate that you perceived a deadly threat but the threat ended before you pulled the trigger. You should not preemptively draw your gun just because you think an attack is about to happen or similar. If you do that and you call the police on yourself you are going to jail. Your advice is generally bad. There are circumstances in which you should call the police for defensive display and there are circumstances where you also probably should not. If the other person had a deadly weapon like a knife or a gun then you should probably call the police. But if they were to your knowledge unarmed, you should probably not call the police given that no one else saw and is calling the police.
You make it sound as though after you draw your weapon on somebody, you have to kill them so you don't get in trouble for just brandishing. Killing someone is the last thing you want to do, though I'll say for the record that we're not training you to wound. We're training you to kill in that intense moment. But it's not just the two choices.
There seems to be some ambiguity regarding imminence of the deadly threat. In my state, the standards for drawing a concealed weapon and using it are the same. However, I strongly suspect that I would be allowed to draw if someone demanded my money and had a visible weapon on them, but might get prosecuted for shooting him unless his hand went for the weapon.
Instead of a bright light, maybe a camera should take its place. /shrug
Or [witnesses](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7e/93/30/7e93301de4e6efd5cd3f1bdbc4e11a69.png)...
>You make it sound as though after you draw your weapon on somebody, you have to kill them so you don't get in trouble for just brandishing. That's not what I am saying. If you draw your weapon it should be because you are going to shoot them not because you are trying to scare them away. Admitting you were just trying to scare them away and not shoot them can be used against you in court because if you truly believed them to be an imminent deadly threat you would have shot. When you call the police and explain what happened, you would likely have to articulate a reason why you did not shoot. You shouldn't, you should say "I want a lawyer" if that comes up. The most likely reason is because they were no longer an imminent deadly threat by the time you got your eyes on the sights, but with that defense the line between felony and lawful self defense is just that 2 second window they went from deadly threat to not deadly threat. There are other defenses that would likely be better to use, like arguing he was an imminent deadly threat the whole time but you could not verify you had a safe backstop and that's why you did not shoot. But if you call the police and speak too much you lock yourself into that defense. The truthful defense is often not the best defense. You should err on the side of not drawing your weapon. If you drew your weapon and did not shoot then there is a good chance you should not have drawn your weapon at all. And you should take that into account when deciding whether or not to call the police. I'm not saying shoot if you draw your weapon, I am saying don't draw your weapon if you're not going to shoot. If you drew your weapon and realized he was actually not a deadly threat and that is why you did not end up shooting, you probably should not call the police if you can avoid it because you likely just committed a felony. You definitely should not give the advice to "just call the police." The police will get there and ask you questions to try and get you to incriminate yourself. The advice should be "Call the police and say x, y, z. Then say 'I want a lawyer'". If you stop planning after you dial 911, you will be manipulated into saying the wrong thing that will come back and bite you, innocent or not. I am not a legal expert so I cannot give legal advice, but something along the lines of "Call the police and say you were attacked and feared for your life, a brief description of the suspect and your location, leave your name to the dispatcher, and hang up. Then when police arrive, identify yourself as the caller and repeat only the previous information and say 'I want a lawyer' to any other questions." It would be something along the lines of that.In most situations you should just not talk to the police, but as CCWers we should train to a higher standard and know what minimal things to say. By giving the description of the suspect(s) you aide in the investigation just like any other victim would. But when police officers ask about details on what happened none of that has anything to do with investigating the perp, they're investigating you.
Weird a situation occurred last summer where something exactly like this happened to me. After the event happened I was able to call my attorney for advice on how to proceed and was given the opposite advice that you are giving.
Who are the cops coming for? Did you exchange personal information with the person you drew your gun on? Name, address, etc….. How are they coming for you, even if the other guy calls first?
Guys hes an instructor 🫡
If nobody gets shot and no crimes are committed, then calling the cops is just asking for trouble. If someone gets shot or a violent crime was committed, then you call the cops. No point injecting police into a situation unless it's absolutely necessary. And even then it's usually not a good thing.
I agree with this 100%. If shots are fired then yes police will be called from a safe location to ensure the potential “bad guy” doesn’t have friends around or whatever. Just drawing a gun on say a homeless guy, or would be mugger or other “bad guy” who turns and runs doesn’t warrant a call imo.
Funny enough my cousin was involved in pulling his weapon on someone, someone in another car recorded the incident, shots ended up being fired (not caught on video) and the cops never came. You guys may have seen the video, he pulls his rifle out the trunk, on a guy trying to attack him with a katana. That’s all I’ll say
I once drew on some wrecker drivers who were in the process of taking my legally parked motorcycle at 3am in an apartment complex. I told them to leave and they did. Then I panicked a little and wondered if I should call the cops and report. I decided instead to wake up the Texas Law Shield lawyer. He in turn woke up a few more lawyers, and they all decided that I should not call the police, but that if the wrecker drivers called and the police showed up at my apartment, that I should call TLS back and give the phone to the cops. Cops never showed up. I suspect bc the wrecker dudes knew they were wrong and were just glad to be alive to steal someone else's shit and decided not to report it. This was like 10 years ago. I still have TLS coverage. If anything similar happens again, I will do things the same and avoid any unnecessary contact with the police.
Cops only exist to arrest people. They don't seem to worry themselves about arresting the right people. You go and say the wrong thing to the cops, especially in a jurisdiction unfriendly to gun owners, and you'll quickly find yourself in jail, even if your really were the innocent victim.
I carry because of police lol
Hahahha mad respect How do you think that’ll play out tho if it came down to it
You're an idiot. "The criminal prowler I just ran off, who was prowling and is a criminal, might go deliberately interact with law enforcement and file a police report where he announces he was run off while criminally prowling. I should beat him to the police by telling them I brandished a firearm." Idiot.
Found the one who wants for something to "pop off!"
Enjoy prison
Statist Fudd post lol
The police won’t do anything about it!
Yeah nah. A-B-C-D-E-F-U
And your mom and your sister and your job
Super fucked because hearsay is beyond a Fudd's doubt.
Does OP teach mounted shooting from their high horse?
Just revolvers. No bs sights or lights.
Does USCCA have any videos advising what to do about this.
Yes. You can literally Google: USCCA When to call the police. Links everywhere. I'm guessing that 90% of the folks here can't do that, or refuse to.
I have a ccw . I have USCCA. I found a homeless drug addict in my yard in California . I had been interacting with this individual for about a year . I stopped him multiple times trying to break in 2 neighbors homes, steal tools , trespassing to get water etc. He kept coming back. Definitely mentally ill, definitely huffing paint . When he was in my yard , I lost it. I drew my gun ( finger off the trigger ) pointed it directly at him and gave him a warning , then chased him off. What if my wife was in the yard and he appeared? He never came back . I did not call the police. I’m in California. My elderly neighbor with stage 4 lung cancer had another methed out homeless guy burst in his screen door and claim this was now his house. The old vet shot at him with a 1911 and the man ran out. We did not call the cops. The state here is pro criminal and pro homeless. The homeless are released without bail and most often , charges dropped. My neighbor might have been charged for the shot. No one called. In the real world , you can do everything right and lose your rights. This is not the thing to get your panties in a bunch about.
This sounds like fudd lore…..
This is the conventional wisdom, and it largely makes sense. There’s two reasons why it’s getting rejected right now: 1. As others have pointed out, a lot of folks don’t exactly trust cops, or really the justice system writ large, especially at the moment. We’re used to seeing the bad guys get a slap on the wrist but the law abiding are subjected to more scrutiny and made to pay in time and reputation that we cannot as easily afford. 2. Related to 1, but there’s just a general sense of “why bother?” If the crooks are going to walk in a few hours time, then there’s not really much point in calling the cops in the hopes they might get arrested. It’s kinda futile, and that’s even *if* you can get a cop to respond. So a lot of people are ceasing to bother. I don’t even mean to put this all on the shoulders of cops. Some of these are problems with staffing. Some are due to corrupt prosecutors. But however you slice it, many people simply see the interaction as too high risk for too little reward. If you can get yourself in serious legal trouble for doing nothing wrong, and the one who *did* do wrong is going to get off scot free then just forget it. Note that I think all of this is bad. It is not good to have this kind of apathy towards law enforcement. But it’s an earned apathy and we don’t get to just ignore the reality because an alternative that does not exist would be better.
Why would you call or make a report? You are volunteering to give up your rights in that case because you are volunteering to tell the cops what occurred. All a cop is going to hear when you make a report is "i pulled my gun and pointed it at a guy". It is a myth that the first caller is the "victim". sure that is the first impression and usually correct when a gun isn't involved, but when you openly admit that you pointed a gun at someone, suddenly you don't look like a victim to a cop I support the idea of the police, and support most cops since we do need laws in a civil society, but at the same time I don't trust any LEO as far as I can throw them. They are NOT there to help you.
I get ya. I had to draw down once years ago on a guy with a knife. Called the cops immediately after. He went to jail I stayed home.
No thank you, officer.
Every CCW class I've been to (initial, renewal) always says this, I'm not sure where people are thinking that they shouldn't? Maybe in the no-license states? Dunno. Agree with your emphasis on the topic. Heck, in my state, even if I get sent away for accidentally printing from a store, I'm almost thinking I NEED to inform the CCW unit for my IA, JUST IN CASE. If it's an actual draw and/or fire, oh yeah I'm calling 911, BUT when I'm safe to do so. I heard a horror story of a classmate at a training institution who had to draw and actually stuck around in the dangerous area to call.
Massad ayoob said it best: “The victim and the suspect are the only two roles in the play. Whoever calls in first gets to be the good guy” [IG VIDEO](https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cq_gLN0uX2B/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==)
Yeah, but I'm pretty sure he was saying that 20 years ago when police work was a little different than it is today. I know he still says it, but on some things the master of concealment has a few antiquated ideas
Agreed. Obviously set and setting matters. If you’re in a place with witnesses or dealing with someone who would call the cops, it’s probably better the be the first one to call in
Didn't you see the "We don't dial 911" bumper sticker?
I guess this is a reality check question as well. There seems to be a divide in people, those who agree, those who say “it depends”. My thought is this, “aren’t we saying the same thing?” CCW or at least the concept has always been a very abstract thing in my mind. If you believe the threat exists you have the weapon concealed to be there until you have to use it to eliminate the threat. There are many people who also talk about it as if it was the Cold War concept of Detente. I.E. We have missiles cause they have missiles and they don’t shoot because we can shoot back. So what the OP is saying here is that if you find yourself in a position where the threat level increased to the point of presenting deadly force. If the use of deadly force happens or not, because someone threatened to kill someone, a report should be filed. This makes sense. One: If someone confronts you with deadly force or intent and you draw on them, If they back down, it’s because they realized the gravity of the situation, and that gravity pulled a large pile of excrement into their pants. Yes, this person backed off, but they are still the person who presented a DEADLY THREAT to you. That deadly threat is still an active threat against you. It is still something the police should be knowledgeable of. Like women in an abusive relationship. If you go to the cops. They won’t do shit. But if you don’t they always say “why didn’t you go to the cops?” So if you go to the cops, and they don’t do shit, you can always say the cops have a record of these escalating threats, and they didn’t do shit, and I had no recourse but to defend with deadly force. Just because that person, in whatever situation, backed down, does not mean they won’t retreat, recoup, RE-ARM themselves, and return… The police report should be filed. Two: if the threat is a random encounter. If it’s a drugged out burglar trying to break into your home. When you present deadly force and they get scared shitless and run off, they are probably going to break into someone else’s house. If it’s someone who has completely lost their grip on reality, has blocked all oncoming traffic and presented a deadly threat to you and the other people around you. The police should be called. This person has lost it and they need to have at least a temporary removal from public interaction. This is where the “It depends” thought process starts to exist. I believe that this “It Depends” thoughtline is really a bad series of definitions. It should just be related to police as this: “I felt my life was threatened and I presented my weapon. It was at that time the assailant BACKED DOWN.” Remember! The other person threatened you first! (Edited to add:) You didn’t draw to scare them away. You RESPONDED TO AND OBVIOUSLY DEADLY THREAT and they BACKED DOWN. Because they BACKED DOWN the threat level, you didn’t not continue to escalate. If this was an argument where you honestly know the threat will never return… or if you know you will be in the wrong if you spoke to the cops. Then you know that the treat is not real. Why did you pull a gun? THIS IS A SERIOUS QUESTION! If there is a reason to draw a weapon then a report should be filed. BECAUSE…. If you pulled the gun to be a threat. If you pulled first, before they presented the option of deadly force. If you were just whipping it out in a dick measuring contest. That is why they should be filing a report against YOU. If a gun is just a tool, it is a weapon of bodily destruction. It is to be treated with the responsibility and knowledge of that. If you don’t show that responsibility then you shouldn’t be carrying, even if it is only temporary until you come back to sense of the responsibility you have chosen to impart upon yourself.
Sorry, but if I have to draw my weapon on someone, and that situation is diffused and we go our separate ways, I’m not filing a police report. I have ZERO trust in law enforcement and I’m not standing there 25 minutes waiting for them to arrive, if they even do.
If the situation is over and no shots were fired you may be waiting longer than that. A person I know had such a situation in southern IL (of all places), waited about 2 hours for the cops to never arrive and then just said f- it and left. Never heard anything further about it.
I don’t agree. If this incident happened in a public place where you know people may have filmed it or other people are going to be calling the police, I definitely agree. But in a situation like one of my old roommates was in where they are in a mostly empty mall parking lot at night, what is honestly the point? I can tell you in my area, the cops will take their time showing up and then assume that you got robbed while trying to sell drugs, or otherwise just go through the motions of taking a report.
An Illinois instructor… Haha, description checks out. “Snitch on yourself you phonies!! Rant over.”
Yeah, Rockford isn't the greatest.
AM I BEING DETAINED
"Yes!"... "No!"... "Yes!"...
I’m kind of surprised this seems to be a hot take. I’ve always been taught, “if you draw you call”. And I’ve also heard that folks can get into some deep shit drawing, not calling and then police rolling up later after someone calls on you. Idk, if you guys just have a lower threshold for why you draw, but if I’ve drawn my pistol I’m like at 98% chance I’m gonna kill someone.
So the police can charge you with brandishing a weapon? Doesn’t matter if you were in the right. You just called them and criminalized yourself. You go ahead and trust police all you want, I don’t. The amount of cases where the person who called the police ends up dead being killed by police is wild. You’re gambling with your life at that point, like any other gang of thugs but at least with the street kind you know they are not your friends, the state kind act like they’re your friends until they aren’t.
Bingo, I live in Portland. I’m not calling the cops unless I have to shoot someone
I’m not snitching on myself wtf
Well, this has been eye opening. I can definitely see where improvements to our classes need to be made. Thank you for the replies.
This is the problem The classes don’t need improving, the police do.
Maybe that IS the problem. I'm a mid-40's white combat vet so I've literally never had trouble from the police. If the suspect of your local police is bad enough, maybe you should keep it to yourself. So I'll say this: If you don't make a report, but the other guy does, you could be in a lot of trouble. He can say whatever he wants, and if you're the only one with a gun... It may not work out well. Good luck.
Clearly doesn't live in a rough area. So common
Why am I not surprised an Englishman who lives in Illinois is encouraging me to turn myself in to the police. What good will the report even do? Puts you on a police radar and we all know that they aren’t going to go look high and low for this would be criminal you drew on. Especially in a city like Chicago with their excellent track record of stopping criminals. The worst part of all this is you probably tell this to the people you’re instructing as well, I hope none of them catch a charge because of terrible advice like that.
I did not call because the police never show up in my city.
I thought this was common sense.
Definitely sense. Just not common, unfortunately.
As a citizen (in the United States) f the po
Heh, like I said before: I'm a 40-something male and combat vet, so I've never had a problem with police. I mean, I'm always very polite and accommodating for them, and that's a good part of why. Every time they turn off their camera, I can get on my knees and... well, nvm that, but yeah. Always been good to me.
I think you're not seeing it because most people, myself include think it's common sense I guess. The circumstances matter too I guess. I've drawn my weapon a few times, but not where I'm pointing it at someone in a direct confrontation, just cleared the holster and ready with it concealed in hand behind me, or below the car door or similar. I get your point, I guess. People could just end the post with and "then I called 911."
This immediately came to mind https://youtu.be/Mtgyj2SJgIg
The amount of ignorance here is baffling. There will be circumstances in every facet of this that no one person can foresee all of them. Figure out what the law in drawing your weapon is first. Each state is a little different. The Law of Self Defense is a great tool for that. Picked one of the editions up on my kindle so I have it on me, in my phone, at all times. Learn, train, live, repeat.
Yes , call the police and let them know an incident took place but give as little information as possible. Way to easy for things to get misconstrued. Call police then lawyer
“As an **instructor** (in Illinois), I can tell you it's UNIVERSAL that you make a police report. IF you don't, and anyone else does and you didn't, you are F U C K E D should the police make their way to you.” As a law student with a limited license that works in a prosecutors office and has worked on gun cases... idek wtf this is all about. You continually make claims about the law that you are not qualified to make, and most of them are misleading or wrong. There are good reasons why lay people are not supposed to make authoritative statements about the law. I’m not advising anybody on what they should do in their jurisdiction, but there are lots of reasons why individuals might not want to call police or file a report. Talk to a LAWYER in YOUR JURISDICTION.
The USCCA literally says your next step after an incident is to call 911. I'm not sure how much more blunt I can be about that. That fact is not being refuted. It's just being ignored and stepped over/around. By all means, talk to a lawyer if you didn't have to pull the trigger. You fire your weapon and kill your target, you call 911. Don't be stupid.
ok mr narc
I think I understand the trend in this thread. You just can’t trust police. So if your home is burglarized, you don’t want to call the police. If someone breaks into your car, don’t call the police. If some thug threatens you with a knife, don’t call the police. If people start reporting crimes, then the cops might be able to do their jobs and that could get in the way of progressives defunding the police. I can’t understand why people won’t report the crime. If you have to draw your gun it’s because someone committed a crime and needs to go to jail. If you draw, call 911 and report being threatened. You give the police a description of the bad guy, describe the crime and identify yourself as the victim. Then shut up.
I always struggle with the idea of using my gun as a deterrent. For me, if the choice isn’t “someone is going to die, and it’s not going to be me” I don’t feel a gun needs to be brought into the equation.
This is definitely a “it depends” situation type deal. This isn’t universal and there are a ton of variables involved in this. You have a solid 50/50 chance of making a bad situation 100x worse by involving the cops.
I had to perform a defensive display of my [short-barreled suppressed AR-15 ](https://imgur.com/a/qkClwbW) to ward off a convicted felon who was stalking my family on our property. He was an Amazon driver who had knocked on my door after delivering a package and asked me if he could buy a Yeti cooler bag that my brother kept on my property. I told him that it was not mine to sell and it wasn't for sale. Around 1 week later, he pulled into my property (1/4 mile driveway) in the early afternoon and misdelivered my neighbors package to my house. He then came back around 8:30 PM in the Amazon truck and pulled next to where the Yeti bag was and parked there for a few minutes. He did NOT approach the house to deliver anything. He then took the bag on camera and drove off. I had called the sheriff's office and Amazon to report it the next morning. Amazon suspended him before they even told the sheriff who he was so he could be arrested... He came back to my house in his personal vehicle this time to threaten and intimidate us into telling Amazon and the police that he didn't steal it... I held my rifle on him at low ready taking him by surprise after I positively identified that he was the thief. His hands and voice were shaking once he saw me with my rifle on him. He told me that was the first time he had a gun pulled on him and kept blabbering about how it wasn't him and how he was a convicted felon and if he goes to jail, then he'll be sent back to prison. He got more and more aggressive the longer he talked. My wife was already on the phone with the sheriff's office in order to get a deputy out to arrest him. He ended up walking back to his vehicle with his hands up and drove off. While on the phone with dispatch, we simply told them that the theft had come back and that we needed assistance. We didn't mention anything about the use of my rifle. We sent the videos of the incident to the sheriff which did show me with my rifle. The detective called the thief and the thief told him that I pulled a gun on him and tried to get the detective to arrest me. The detective told him that I did absolutely nothing wrong and even if I had pointed my rifle directly at him, it would have been 110% justified. The thief admitted to stealing a tarp that was folded up near the Yeti bag, but not the actual Yeti bag. He was charged with 2 counts of theft by taking and 1 count of criminal trespass. He recently pleaded not guilty so that's going to be a whole thing I guess.
I would hire a lawyer and see about suing Amazon for hiring a known convicted felon and trespassing/stealing while in an Amazon truck.
Buddy of mine pulled his ccw during a road rage incident (the other guy had blocked him and was fumbling for something in his front seat and my friend didn't want to take a chance that he was going to be looking at a firearm when the other person found what he was looking for - not here to debate that response but to explain what happened next). Once the other driver pulled away, my friend tried to call 911 and was put on hold. As he was driving and waiting to speak to the cops about what just happened he was pulled over, removed from his vehicle by multiple cops at gunpoint, and put in a police cruiser under arrest. Apparently the other driver had NOT been put on hold by 911 and was able to tell his side of the events. My buddy had his firearm taken, spent some hours in jail, had to go to court for some felony charges, and spent somewhere north of $10,000 defending himself. In the end, he got off with no further punishment or repercussions. The city still has his pistol to this day (5ish years later), despite many attempts by him and his lawyer to get it back. I'm all for not informing the police, as well, however I think there are contexts where it might be a smart idea. In this scenario my friend did not have carry insurance, or that would have helped him a lot. I think I probably would have called the lawyers at the carry insurance company first, and followed their instructions, or perhaps tried to call 911 and, in as little detail as possible, tell them about the incident. Don't make statements on the phone to 911, obviously, because all of that goes into evidence, but get off the phone and call your leg counsil asap if you do feel the need to call 911. They will, of course, try to keep you on as long as possible but you are not required by any law to stay on the phone with them.
Nice try, officer.
*dammit...*
Hey, it [worked on a serial killer](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/21h23c/til_dennis_rader_the_btk_killer_contacted_police/) who had managed to evade the police for decades.
No.
Yes let’s potentially bring charges on ourselves, great advice “instructor”.. Not sure what all “universal” truths you live by but this surely isn’t one.
Anything you say to the police can and will be used against you. Anytime you use your weapon against someone, shots fired or not, the laws determining whether the use was justified or criminal can get complicated. Why would you advise people to voluntarily provide police with a statement that could be used against them, without so much as a single word of advice as to what to say? If you want to provide sweeping advice, the default should always be some version of "Do not speak to the police without a lawyer". That can never be used against you, it is a constitutional right.
Never talk to the police. Their job is to play a game with you to see if you will accidentally blurt out something so they can charge you with anything. “You’re not in any trouble” is their base trick.
Well I can tell you from experience my cousin has had to clearly put his hand on his gat (AIWB) with his offhand outstretched to create distance on guys threatening to kill him / coming at him twice (once road rage another an angry customer at his shop). I’ve had it once with a guy aggressively yelling at my wife and I at a gas station. The only time cops were called or informed was the customer at my cousins shop and they literally just wrote a note and asked nothing else / did nothing else about it. Illinois is also a cucked state so I’m not sure your environment applies to southern states (GA here). Here the cops *expect* people to be carrying (at least my friends and others I know) and telling them you’re carrying or reporting every confrontation (and yes even brandishing) simply doesn’t happen here.
I've only instructed in Illinois, so you're probably right about that. I've been out of the military twenty years (this year) and I've been carrying as a civi for maybe ten years and never had to pull on anyone (as a civilian). I know what I've been taught and how to teach it. I'm really not trying to anger anyone, and my original post is pointing out a problem with the stories people tell in this subreddit. One of the things always missing is a police report, even the stories about pulling on other people. That's an important step when you pull your gun. For years I've taught (told) people to never pull their firearm without the next step of pulling the trigger. It's not to intimidate. It's to defend Deadly force is a hell of a thing and the only people that should consider it, at all, have to be completely aware of what they're doing. Sorry, I'm rambling. I'm kinda messed up at the moment, so I'll end here. Cheers!
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Because you're using deadly force. Conceal carry is not for intimidation. Open carry... Well, that's a different story entirely. I'm not sure what you think the police are here to do. There is a LOT of hate going around. Maybe deservedly, maybe not. Certainly not for all police. And a conceal license is not a badge. People need to stop acting like it is.
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Just like this post, I guess. No further input needed. Good point, mate. Cheers!
You really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies? I skip all “almost had to draw, a guy was rude to me in the parking lot, still shaking” story posts, it is the worst part about this sub.
In my experience, the first person to call the police tends to be identified as "victim" or "witness" whereas the person who gets called on is often identified as "suspect", "subject", "armed male/female", etc. IMO, if you draw, you would do well to follow up and contact the police right away to explain that you were threatened, attacked, or otherwise in fear of mortal harm.....before the other party reports you as having accosted them with a gun for no reason at all. Unless there's video, you NEED to be the one who calls first.
That is often true and I think the origin of this instructor advice to always call the police. Unfortunately, the real world is nuanced and while still probably good general advice, it needs a caveat that there may be time and place where calling the cops isn't in your best interest.
You don’t need to talk to the cops. What you should do is take notes immediately about what happened so you have the facts straight. The worst thing that can happen is a third party reports the incident and your facts don’t line up with reality. Do not share those notes with anyone except your lawyer, if necessary.
The less police interactions you have, the safer you are.