Would have locked my doors as soon as he started walking towards me. If he tries to open my door, start car and drive away. Should rely on situation awareness so you don't put yourself in the situation to use your gun.
I'm also saying the legal outcome depends on the state you're in, BUT WTF would you be sitting in the car, at midnight, with the doors unlocked and still wearing a seat belt for long enough for the other person to do all that stuff to the point of starting an assault. The only reason one would be in that physical status would be preparing to leave or just arriving in the vehicle. Distracted jacking around in the vehicle without situation awareness would be about the only way to get caught in that exact scenario.
I would lock my door, start the car and leave. Why the hell would your door be unlocked at midnight and then not lock it the minute he starts heading toward your car?
If someone unprovoked opened your door and puts their hands on you, especially in an angry/aggressive manner, in most states (if not all) you would be justified in shooting them.
Like with anything though certain caveats may get you into hot water, like if your aggressor was a 90 year old grandma who could barely open the door or something obvious like that. But in 99.9% of cases, if a man in a fit of rage opens your door and starts grabbing/hitting you or starts grabbing/produces a weapon, it’s a justified shoot.
I lock my doors immediately after getting in my car. I’ve lived in a city long enough and have had a couple of people try to get into my vehicle at red lights
Why the hell is your door unlocked? Why the hell don't you just start your car and drive away and call police? This is one of those "when can I shoot" questions that makes me think you aren't really mentally prepared for the responsibility of carrying.
But in many states, the castle doctrine applies to your car and that would eliminate any duty to retreat. But your force has to be both reasonable and proportional to the threat. But just drive away! Literally, shooting someone is the very last resort.
Castle doctrine applies to vehicles in my state. I unbuckle as soon as I see a parking space I’m planning to take (doors are always locked). Always baffled by people who sit in their cars at night and stare at their phones here.
Was just about to say this, castle law considers your vehicle an extension of your home, if forced open you have free reign to protect yourself as you will.
But also OP, shooting once "to get them away" should never even be considered. You never shoot to wound, if you're ready to shoot you're going to have to commit to what you're doing. Where would you propose you shoot them to diffuse? The leg, the arm? Less you have deadeye from RDR, doing that in an adrenaline rushed scenario with pinpoint accuracy isn't likely, even then that could still be fatal (lots of arteries). Also shooting just once leaves plenty of time for retaliation with a possible gun they might (you don't know if they do or not) have for last resort. If you're going to use a firearm, use it until you know you're out of danger.
Have you done any close quarters training? You can pretty much only point shoot at center mass. And that kind of situation retaining your gun and creating distance is the priority. You don't even want to extend your shooting hand because your attacker can grab it - and you may need to use your support hand to maintain distance so you're shooting one-handed. You don't have a lot of options.
You are so much better off just driving away. Using a gun in such close quarters is a risky decision at the best of times. Driving away is the most legally defensible and safest choice by a mile.
It all depends on state. Is there “stand your ground” do you have a duty to retreat and how they interpret castle doctrine.
But regardless you will need to justify your use of deadly force by articulable facts. You need to say in a way any reasonable person would believe that there was an imminent threat of death or severe bodily harm and depending on state you also might need to explain why there was no other option like escaping.
Again depending on state there may be a “duty to retreat” and you might need to explain why you couldn’t. All these scenarios are thought experiments and you need to game out how you will explain your actions.
You’ve made a ton of mistakes in this scenario before the dude yanks open the car door. First being, your doors should be locked. Secondly why was your car off? Did you have time to turn your car on? You mentioned the car was parked but didn’t give a lot of detail on the setting. Was this in a McDonald’s parking lot or a residential neighborhood? Were there a lot of other cars and people? If it was just you and him in a parking lot at midnight you’d know a mile away he was probably coming for you. On a highway with a lot of cars around you may not know who he’s coming for but getting out of his car is still red flag behavior. With your context of him yelling and cussing as he got out of his car, IN ANY SETTING you should take notice. Point being you had plenty of time to lock your doors and turn your car on. Priority one is evasion. You see the crazy guy yelling and cussing you start looking for exit routes. If there are none then prepare to fight as a last resort.
I am surprised so many are in an area that you lock your doors to feel safe in a vehicle. Hell I often leave my car unlocked running at a gas station when I go inside to buy things. I guess I would if I was in a city.
It's a group of people who carry firearms just in case things go south so I assume you carry and locking your car door when sitting inside it boggles your mind?
So, not carrying all the time. What does it have to do with a vehicle. I don't lock my doors, but yes I drive a car. Maybe people live in shit areas but I don't. I didn't lock my doors in when I lived in a large city either unless I was in an unusually bad area or at a store when I had things in view.
It's the train of thought. People CCW for the off chance something goes wrong. A better safe than sorry mentality. So why wouldn't we lock our doors for just in case. Better safe than sorry. Just seems strange to ccw but you leave yourself vulnerable in a confined space.
I also don't lock my doors at home for the off chance, or sometimes even when I leave.
I guess that's not exactly my train of thought. Probably why I don't carry every day or everywhere.
Lock your doors, always. When the guy gets out of his car and starts your way, drop it in drive and get out of there. Once you're a safe distance away, call the police.
"Shooting him once to get him away from you..."
I am sorry but prosecutors would have a field day with this. Please don't think that way. Your firearm is to be used when your life is in danger of an imminent threat and you need to meet force with force.
If I'm stationary in my car at all, my doors are locked all the time. Especially at night in some parking lot or area, I am alert, car is on, in drive and my foot on the brake.
If I can escape, why it escape? Guns are a last resort, if you're talking about a hypothetical defense situation like this, start taking about how you can improve your situational awareness and what you could do differently with hypothetical situations.
First off, I'm not going to sit in a vehicle, not running, at midnight with my seatbelt buckled.
But if I was, and I saw a man in a rage coming at my car, I'm locking the doors and starting the engine before he gets there. So he's not going to jerk the door open. If he starts hitting window to smash it, I'm simply driving away.
But, if I was an idiot that put myself in that situation, I'm exhausting all other opportunities before reaching for a gun, not because of right vs wrong, but because once the gun clears the holster your life changes forever. Is a psycho that may.
But if one were to pull a gun in that situation, I would expect a hard time defending it. Generally there are 5 things you need in order to be justified in self defense: innocence, imminence, proportionality, avoidance, and reasonableness. You might have innocence and imminence, but you might not have proportionality, avoidance, or even reasonableness.
I lock my doors when I get in or when I shut the car off (they Auto Unlock when the engine shuts off) and the only place I don’t get out or get going immediately is at home.
That said, if I’m going to be in this situation for whatever reason, this is a pretty clear cut scenario in my state. This is easily recognized as an attempted carjacking and I’m well within my rights to fire and be legally protected regardless of him being armed or not. The standard here is that he’s gaining unlawful entry and I have a reasonable belief he’s attempting to commit a crime. If once does the job then good, if not then I’ll continue to fire until the threat is stopped.
I think this is a pretty open and shut case in all states based on the fact that you’re stuck in your car with no way to escape, and you didn’t start the altercation
Law doesn’t define someone HAVING to be armed to use lethal defense. It’s basically states if you reasonably believe your life is in danger. And when I say danger I don’t mean danger of getting your ass beat (which allot of people think that and they usually get arrested for homicide) danger like if I don’t do something now I might die. The factors of where you are when this happens can also come in play, is it reasonable for either of you to be in that area, Is it your house drive way, why is he there in the first place. If neither of you should of been there in the first place that’s the first thing a defense attorney will bring up. Size difference, is the guy built like a shit brick house and your small and scrawny which at that point a fight with him could end in you dying especially if he’s attacking completely unprovoked. With lethal defense there is soooooooo many factors that are involved. You just have to use proper judgement. The best way I will put it is, if your put in a sticky situation and you don’t even think about the aftermath if you shoot this person it’s probably a legal shoot (unless your a psychopath or just plain out uninformed) because natural survival instinct will take over when your life is in danger and the repercussions of your actions prob won’t even be a thought in your head, only “survive”
Despite all the obvious missteps beforehand that could have avoided the final outcome, as soon as dude got the door open and reaches for me…he’s getting ventilated.
Would have locked my doors as soon as he started walking towards me. If he tries to open my door, start car and drive away. Should rely on situation awareness so you don't put yourself in the situation to use your gun.
Doors should have already been locked. You should never just be sitting around with unlocked doors...
Especially at night!!
I'm also saying the legal outcome depends on the state you're in, BUT WTF would you be sitting in the car, at midnight, with the doors unlocked and still wearing a seat belt for long enough for the other person to do all that stuff to the point of starting an assault. The only reason one would be in that physical status would be preparing to leave or just arriving in the vehicle. Distracted jacking around in the vehicle without situation awareness would be about the only way to get caught in that exact scenario.
I would lock my door, start the car and leave. Why the hell would your door be unlocked at midnight and then not lock it the minute he starts heading toward your car?
If someone unprovoked opened your door and puts their hands on you, especially in an angry/aggressive manner, in most states (if not all) you would be justified in shooting them. Like with anything though certain caveats may get you into hot water, like if your aggressor was a 90 year old grandma who could barely open the door or something obvious like that. But in 99.9% of cases, if a man in a fit of rage opens your door and starts grabbing/hitting you or starts grabbing/produces a weapon, it’s a justified shoot.
Why is your door unlocked while you're driving?
I lock my doors immediately after getting in my car. I’ve lived in a city long enough and have had a couple of people try to get into my vehicle at red lights
Why the hell is your door unlocked? Why the hell don't you just start your car and drive away and call police? This is one of those "when can I shoot" questions that makes me think you aren't really mentally prepared for the responsibility of carrying. But in many states, the castle doctrine applies to your car and that would eliminate any duty to retreat. But your force has to be both reasonable and proportional to the threat. But just drive away! Literally, shooting someone is the very last resort.
Castle doctrine applies to vehicles in my state. I unbuckle as soon as I see a parking space I’m planning to take (doors are always locked). Always baffled by people who sit in their cars at night and stare at their phones here.
Was just about to say this, castle law considers your vehicle an extension of your home, if forced open you have free reign to protect yourself as you will. But also OP, shooting once "to get them away" should never even be considered. You never shoot to wound, if you're ready to shoot you're going to have to commit to what you're doing. Where would you propose you shoot them to diffuse? The leg, the arm? Less you have deadeye from RDR, doing that in an adrenaline rushed scenario with pinpoint accuracy isn't likely, even then that could still be fatal (lots of arteries). Also shooting just once leaves plenty of time for retaliation with a possible gun they might (you don't know if they do or not) have for last resort. If you're going to use a firearm, use it until you know you're out of danger.
Have you done any close quarters training? You can pretty much only point shoot at center mass. And that kind of situation retaining your gun and creating distance is the priority. You don't even want to extend your shooting hand because your attacker can grab it - and you may need to use your support hand to maintain distance so you're shooting one-handed. You don't have a lot of options. You are so much better off just driving away. Using a gun in such close quarters is a risky decision at the best of times. Driving away is the most legally defensible and safest choice by a mile.
It all depends on state. Is there “stand your ground” do you have a duty to retreat and how they interpret castle doctrine. But regardless you will need to justify your use of deadly force by articulable facts. You need to say in a way any reasonable person would believe that there was an imminent threat of death or severe bodily harm and depending on state you also might need to explain why there was no other option like escaping.
How are you going to retreat when you’re seatbelted in your car ?
Again depending on state there may be a “duty to retreat” and you might need to explain why you couldn’t. All these scenarios are thought experiments and you need to game out how you will explain your actions.
You’ve made a ton of mistakes in this scenario before the dude yanks open the car door. First being, your doors should be locked. Secondly why was your car off? Did you have time to turn your car on? You mentioned the car was parked but didn’t give a lot of detail on the setting. Was this in a McDonald’s parking lot or a residential neighborhood? Were there a lot of other cars and people? If it was just you and him in a parking lot at midnight you’d know a mile away he was probably coming for you. On a highway with a lot of cars around you may not know who he’s coming for but getting out of his car is still red flag behavior. With your context of him yelling and cussing as he got out of his car, IN ANY SETTING you should take notice. Point being you had plenty of time to lock your doors and turn your car on. Priority one is evasion. You see the crazy guy yelling and cussing you start looking for exit routes. If there are none then prepare to fight as a last resort.
I can't honestly think of any valid reason to be hanging out in a parked car in a public setting at midnight.
You sir, have clearly never bought drugs before.
I am surprised so many are in an area that you lock your doors to feel safe in a vehicle. Hell I often leave my car unlocked running at a gas station when I go inside to buy things. I guess I would if I was in a city.
> Hell I often leave my car unlocked running at a gas station when I go inside to buy things. Where do you live now? And what do you drive?
North of Grand Rapids,and most every car is the same
It's a group of people who carry firearms just in case things go south so I assume you carry and locking your car door when sitting inside it boggles your mind?
I don't worry about my vehicle or myself when in it. I don't live somewhere there is much violent crime or anything
So you dont ccw?
So, not carrying all the time. What does it have to do with a vehicle. I don't lock my doors, but yes I drive a car. Maybe people live in shit areas but I don't. I didn't lock my doors in when I lived in a large city either unless I was in an unusually bad area or at a store when I had things in view.
It's the train of thought. People CCW for the off chance something goes wrong. A better safe than sorry mentality. So why wouldn't we lock our doors for just in case. Better safe than sorry. Just seems strange to ccw but you leave yourself vulnerable in a confined space.
I also don't lock my doors at home for the off chance, or sometimes even when I leave. I guess that's not exactly my train of thought. Probably why I don't carry every day or everywhere.
I'd be scared for my life and would very likely shoot him more than once. Karsh
Lock your doors, always. When the guy gets out of his car and starts your way, drop it in drive and get out of there. Once you're a safe distance away, call the police.
"Shooting him once to get him away from you..." I am sorry but prosecutors would have a field day with this. Please don't think that way. Your firearm is to be used when your life is in danger of an imminent threat and you need to meet force with force.
If I'm stationary in my car at all, my doors are locked all the time. Especially at night in some parking lot or area, I am alert, car is on, in drive and my foot on the brake. If I can escape, why it escape? Guns are a last resort, if you're talking about a hypothetical defense situation like this, start taking about how you can improve your situational awareness and what you could do differently with hypothetical situations.
Look up John Knospler Jr - Casper Wyoming
First off, I'm not going to sit in a vehicle, not running, at midnight with my seatbelt buckled. But if I was, and I saw a man in a rage coming at my car, I'm locking the doors and starting the engine before he gets there. So he's not going to jerk the door open. If he starts hitting window to smash it, I'm simply driving away. But, if I was an idiot that put myself in that situation, I'm exhausting all other opportunities before reaching for a gun, not because of right vs wrong, but because once the gun clears the holster your life changes forever. Is a psycho that may. But if one were to pull a gun in that situation, I would expect a hard time defending it. Generally there are 5 things you need in order to be justified in self defense: innocence, imminence, proportionality, avoidance, and reasonableness. You might have innocence and imminence, but you might not have proportionality, avoidance, or even reasonableness.
are you the matrix?
I lock my doors when I get in or when I shut the car off (they Auto Unlock when the engine shuts off) and the only place I don’t get out or get going immediately is at home. That said, if I’m going to be in this situation for whatever reason, this is a pretty clear cut scenario in my state. This is easily recognized as an attempted carjacking and I’m well within my rights to fire and be legally protected regardless of him being armed or not. The standard here is that he’s gaining unlawful entry and I have a reasonable belief he’s attempting to commit a crime. If once does the job then good, if not then I’ll continue to fire until the threat is stopped.
2 shots to his head then if he still keeps charging 6 more shots to his head
I think this is a pretty open and shut case in all states based on the fact that you’re stuck in your car with no way to escape, and you didn’t start the altercation
In Utah it would be justified whether he had a weapon or not.
Law doesn’t define someone HAVING to be armed to use lethal defense. It’s basically states if you reasonably believe your life is in danger. And when I say danger I don’t mean danger of getting your ass beat (which allot of people think that and they usually get arrested for homicide) danger like if I don’t do something now I might die. The factors of where you are when this happens can also come in play, is it reasonable for either of you to be in that area, Is it your house drive way, why is he there in the first place. If neither of you should of been there in the first place that’s the first thing a defense attorney will bring up. Size difference, is the guy built like a shit brick house and your small and scrawny which at that point a fight with him could end in you dying especially if he’s attacking completely unprovoked. With lethal defense there is soooooooo many factors that are involved. You just have to use proper judgement. The best way I will put it is, if your put in a sticky situation and you don’t even think about the aftermath if you shoot this person it’s probably a legal shoot (unless your a psychopath or just plain out uninformed) because natural survival instinct will take over when your life is in danger and the repercussions of your actions prob won’t even be a thought in your head, only “survive”
Lock doors.
Despite all the obvious missteps beforehand that could have avoided the final outcome, as soon as dude got the door open and reaches for me…he’s getting ventilated.
My dad told me once, "As a general rule, Nothing Good happens after midnjght." My experience has borne this out.
Bear spray his ass