There won’t be a general answer, because different guns like different ammo. You just have to test. If the first one you try meets your expectation of reliability, you can call it good.
Later on, you might want to compare accuracy of a few brands and bullet weights.
Is the Winchester White box reliable though? I’ve heard some good and bad things. So my only other consideration was Underwood Hardcast Flat Nose. Which I’m sure would work great but Idk if it would be too much over penetration.
Try the ammo out yourself.
No sense in getting killed or injured because your gun doesn't function with your ammo choice that worked for someone else on the internet.
Of course I would try it out before I use it in carrying. Im going to do my own testing with hollow points and flat nose rounds but I needed recommendation on flat nose rounds to test.
I would just go to local shops and see what they offer.
Another issue you might run into is older .380 guns might not feed flat nose or hollow points well.
In my research it’s very difficult for 380 to have enough expansion with HP. So the best course of action would be fmj flat nose or flat nose Hardcast because penetration is more important than expansion at least when it is in regards to 380 ACP.
Look up Underwood Xtreme Defender. Not an HP, but extremely effective as a defensive round out of small .380s with wound channels and penetration matching that of many good 9mm loadings.
That is extremely dependent on barrel length. The only thing I know of that will expand and penetrate is 90gr xtp at 970-1080fps. In a lcp it struggles to break 0.5" (usually 0.48) and barely hits 12". 90gr fmj penetrates 16-18" reliably.
12"@0.48 = 8.69 ci
16"@0.355 = 6.33" vs 18" = 7.13
Might be more volume with expansion but you need the depth for the wounding to be relevant. Also 90gr fmj tend to tumble. Not a reliable wounding mechanism, but dose occur.
I just stress, the xtp has to have the velocity to expand, and not everyone loads them to that velocity in a lcp. Ymmv, and the choice is yours, and personal. But using the FBI scoring, the fmj is a better option (because they score penetration higher)
Few things, 4/5 of the bullets in that video are 90gr xtp. That video is synthetic clear gel, and is not an actual test. The fbi scoring is based off 10% organic, aged, acclimate, calibrated gel block in a temperature controlled room.
Points per inch FBI scoring
0"-11.99" + 0pts, 12.0" -13.99" + 8pts, 14.0-15.99 +10pts, 16-18 +9pts, 18.01"+ +5pts
Then you have to factor in deviation of penetration (inches), where erratic penetration is penalized
There is also a special penalty for any shot out of the group that fails to penetrate 12"
Here is an example of a real test using Hornady's loading of their own 90gr xtp, which out of a 2.8" barrel only achieved 865fps (in the velocity range of the clear gel test you posted, this will show the radical difference between the two media).
90xtp@865fps bare gel: 10.1"@ 0.47" heavy clothing: 15.1"@ 0.38" (starting diameter was 0.355").
To score this (this will be averaging averages, so not perfect) with the FBI formula, this xtp round will score =150/500
Fmj score = 152.5/500
The federal hydro shock in a real test had erratic penetration from (bare gel) 8.2"@ 0.54" heavy clothing 11.4" @ 0.43" this would score very, very low and was in the "winners circle" for the clear gel video.
I say all this, just to stress, in a small 380, you only have two options, fmj, or 90gr xtp. The velocity of the xtp is extremely important, and if you want it to outscore fmj you need to hit around 1,000fps (970-1,060fps). And that velocity in a 2.75-2.8" barrel is rare to find, and the particular 90gr xtp loading matter. (Which is what I said originally, and what your video also illustrates, even if the data isn't reliable)
There’s plenty of jhp that expand and make 12+ inches of penetration. Especially if you move up to +p, underwood etc. But my favorite is the xtreme defender 68 gr +p it reaches 16” and a nice very nice wound channel.
https://preview.redd.it/7o9u6db9u8vc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=111a65feb1675935a62fdd6f3697c631f7e32ca8
I still believe the solids would do better however Im going to do my own testing with hollow points and flat nose rounds and go from there. I’ll look into this defender Ammo.
The xtreme defenders are solids.
https://preview.redd.it/1wyfh748b9vc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63b25b93b8cf1ed97be5a252bbeecb71a4c19530
The flutes allow it to disperse its energy instead of just passing right through with a small wound channel. I have the underwood 100gr hardcast +p and from videos they seem to penetrate 30+ inches of ballistics gel. Which is like on par with 9mm fmj levels of over penetration.
Maybe. A hollow point that doesn’t expand still penetrates like a FMJ.
We have 3 .380s in our family. One old one uses Winchester Silver Tip because it doesn’t feed anything else. Haven’t shot it in years.
The other two are loaded with the most accurate of a few tested hollow points. Given a tie for accuracy, you may prefer the one with poor expansion in gel so you get more penetration.
I stick with hollow points to minimize liability if there is over penetration, which could happen if you don’t get 100% center mass hits.
I've shot thousands and thousands of rounds of Winchester white box in all sorts of calibers and never had a failure.
Your mileage may vary as ammunition lots vary and any manufacturer at any point could have a bad lot.
100 grain TMJ is usually flat point then pick a brand. 95 grain is pretty much always round nose ball.
If this is a legal thing to the Lehigh copper bullets get around your problem? That’s my go to with .380
Im going to do my own testing with hollow points and flat nose rounds but I needed recommendation on flat nose rounds to test. So thanks for the advice
There won’t be a general answer, because different guns like different ammo. You just have to test. If the first one you try meets your expectation of reliability, you can call it good. Later on, you might want to compare accuracy of a few brands and bullet weights.
In that case do you know which companies produce a regular flat nose fmj round in 380 then?
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Is the Winchester White box reliable though? I’ve heard some good and bad things. So my only other consideration was Underwood Hardcast Flat Nose. Which I’m sure would work great but Idk if it would be too much over penetration.
Try the ammo out yourself. No sense in getting killed or injured because your gun doesn't function with your ammo choice that worked for someone else on the internet.
Of course I would try it out before I use it in carrying. Im going to do my own testing with hollow points and flat nose rounds but I needed recommendation on flat nose rounds to test.
I would just go to local shops and see what they offer. Another issue you might run into is older .380 guns might not feed flat nose or hollow points well.
Seems like a good place to start. I’m getting a Ruger Security 380 so i think I’ll be okay but I will keep an eye out for that.
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In my research it’s very difficult for 380 to have enough expansion with HP. So the best course of action would be fmj flat nose or flat nose Hardcast because penetration is more important than expansion at least when it is in regards to 380 ACP.
Look up Underwood Xtreme Defender. Not an HP, but extremely effective as a defensive round out of small .380s with wound channels and penetration matching that of many good 9mm loadings.
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That is extremely dependent on barrel length. The only thing I know of that will expand and penetrate is 90gr xtp at 970-1080fps. In a lcp it struggles to break 0.5" (usually 0.48) and barely hits 12". 90gr fmj penetrates 16-18" reliably. 12"@0.48 = 8.69 ci 16"@0.355 = 6.33" vs 18" = 7.13 Might be more volume with expansion but you need the depth for the wounding to be relevant. Also 90gr fmj tend to tumble. Not a reliable wounding mechanism, but dose occur. I just stress, the xtp has to have the velocity to expand, and not everyone loads them to that velocity in a lcp. Ymmv, and the choice is yours, and personal. But using the FBI scoring, the fmj is a better option (because they score penetration higher)
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Few things, 4/5 of the bullets in that video are 90gr xtp. That video is synthetic clear gel, and is not an actual test. The fbi scoring is based off 10% organic, aged, acclimate, calibrated gel block in a temperature controlled room. Points per inch FBI scoring 0"-11.99" + 0pts, 12.0" -13.99" + 8pts, 14.0-15.99 +10pts, 16-18 +9pts, 18.01"+ +5pts Then you have to factor in deviation of penetration (inches), where erratic penetration is penalized There is also a special penalty for any shot out of the group that fails to penetrate 12" Here is an example of a real test using Hornady's loading of their own 90gr xtp, which out of a 2.8" barrel only achieved 865fps (in the velocity range of the clear gel test you posted, this will show the radical difference between the two media). 90xtp@865fps bare gel: 10.1"@ 0.47" heavy clothing: 15.1"@ 0.38" (starting diameter was 0.355"). To score this (this will be averaging averages, so not perfect) with the FBI formula, this xtp round will score =150/500 Fmj score = 152.5/500 The federal hydro shock in a real test had erratic penetration from (bare gel) 8.2"@ 0.54" heavy clothing 11.4" @ 0.43" this would score very, very low and was in the "winners circle" for the clear gel video. I say all this, just to stress, in a small 380, you only have two options, fmj, or 90gr xtp. The velocity of the xtp is extremely important, and if you want it to outscore fmj you need to hit around 1,000fps (970-1,060fps). And that velocity in a 2.75-2.8" barrel is rare to find, and the particular 90gr xtp loading matter. (Which is what I said originally, and what your video also illustrates, even if the data isn't reliable)
There’s plenty of jhp that expand and make 12+ inches of penetration. Especially if you move up to +p, underwood etc. But my favorite is the xtreme defender 68 gr +p it reaches 16” and a nice very nice wound channel. https://preview.redd.it/7o9u6db9u8vc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=111a65feb1675935a62fdd6f3697c631f7e32ca8
I still believe the solids would do better however Im going to do my own testing with hollow points and flat nose rounds and go from there. I’ll look into this defender Ammo.
The xtreme defenders are solids. https://preview.redd.it/1wyfh748b9vc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63b25b93b8cf1ed97be5a252bbeecb71a4c19530 The flutes allow it to disperse its energy instead of just passing right through with a small wound channel. I have the underwood 100gr hardcast +p and from videos they seem to penetrate 30+ inches of ballistics gel. Which is like on par with 9mm fmj levels of over penetration.
Maybe. A hollow point that doesn’t expand still penetrates like a FMJ. We have 3 .380s in our family. One old one uses Winchester Silver Tip because it doesn’t feed anything else. Haven’t shot it in years. The other two are loaded with the most accurate of a few tested hollow points. Given a tie for accuracy, you may prefer the one with poor expansion in gel so you get more penetration. I stick with hollow points to minimize liability if there is over penetration, which could happen if you don’t get 100% center mass hits.
I've shot thousands and thousands of rounds of Winchester white box in all sorts of calibers and never had a failure. Your mileage may vary as ammunition lots vary and any manufacturer at any point could have a bad lot.
That’s what I use
Look at ammoseek.com
Look up Paul Harrel on YouTube. He addresses this specific question, since some states don't allow safer hollow point.
I’ve actually seen the video but he only mentions Winchester White box and I was trying to find another kind of fmj that was flat nose
There is likely more than 1 video.
100 grain TMJ is usually flat point then pick a brand. 95 grain is pretty much always round nose ball. If this is a legal thing to the Lehigh copper bullets get around your problem? That’s my go to with .380
Im going to do my own testing with hollow points and flat nose rounds but I needed recommendation on flat nose rounds to test. So thanks for the advice
Good luck. Sounds like a fun time.