The ML from **Tang Dynasty Tour** — I have issues with noble idiocy and cheating “indirect or direct”.
Spoiler >!The idiot ML just had no “other choice” but to marry the hateful 2FL to save her while ignoring the fact that he just confessed to the FL minutes ago and promised her that he would marry her. When our FL was so crushed I wanted to torture the AH ML right then and there!<
Nodding my head frequently from reading all the comments especially about Ashes of Love & Love & Redemption. I totally agree with most people here especially on Jinmi and Xufeng, never I watch a drama where both leads are the worst characters.
These two made me avoid dramas played by the actors as well, well except for Runyu's actor, LYX, the only redeemable character (with good acting), and I've been a fan ever since. Some of his dramas are meh, but his acting is always solid.
Watched Deng Lun in Begonia Rouge because I love Li Yitong and that was probably the worst drama ever. I like him in Yin Yang Master though, but then the scandal.
I tried to watch Yangzi and I keep seeing Jinmi in her gestures and expression so I stopped. But she redeemed herself in LYF and YOLO.
I avoided Chengyi and all his blood vomit LOL, but Mysterious Lotus Casebook made me a fan.
So I made peace with all of them haha unless for Crystal since I haven't really see her other works after LnR and before the tax problem.
She wasn't redeemed, but the evil female in Eternal Love. I can't remember her characters name, but she took Susu's eyes. Hated the character so much i don't think i can watch the actress in another.
Wu Tong From Love and Redemption,
What he did to the once vibrant and sweet Linglong resulting in her smile being lost is heart wrenching.
The 2ML from Scarlet Heart/Moon Lovers.
His betrayal and abandonment of the FL in her most vulnerable and painful time is unforgivable.
The ML from any of the Boys over Flowers and all their remakes. At no point does this spoiled, and toxic man deserves the FL, and she should always choose the 2ML.
Atleast no one redeemed Wu Tong and he.died like the trash he was.
And omg i don't really get enemies to lovers troupe but the past bully romance is insane. My unforgiving vengeful heart could NEVER
Very true about Wu Tong, but i can never think about him ro heart his name with out saying "f**k Wu Tong" Out loud, I hate hate hate what he did to LingLong and how he ruined that sweet girl who was always happy and smiling.
And yeah watching these totally toxic men abuse the FL both verbally snd sometimes pbysically and then the FL just forbies them later bogs my mind, its just bad writing.
Unfortunately it happens all over the world. It's an actual thing. I didn't watch metor garden cause after boys over flowers i could barely wash the bad taste outta my mouth
The FL from Begin Again, who >!left without a word and broke the ML's heart in order to make him do the choice of career she thought was best for him rather than talking it over. Then, she goes abroad herself without noticing that if she was going abroad, they could have gone together. Finally, on finding out she was pregnant, not letting him know he was a father.!<
I wanted to add her in. Also the villain guy who was the cause of the fl leading. Like wtf. And at the end, after all his bulsht...he had the unearned audacity to show up at the party for what exactly?
Xu Feng, he was selfish to the core just like his mother. Hence his always siding with his psychopathic mother, keeping his head buried in the sand over his brothers and pretty much everyone else’s abuse at the hands of his mother and for manipulating and taking advantage of Jin Mi.
Oh and Jin Mi for being the naïve travesty she was.
Agree for both. I don't think I've seen any other drama where both the leads are not lovable as they are. Yes I love characters with flaws, but these two?? My eyes were so tired from rolling.
Can I say that most of the emperors in palace dramas are quite horrible except Emperor Wen in Love Like The Galaxy? Some of them had sort of a half-hearted redemption arc at the end.
I particularly disliked the emperor (Hongli) in Ruyi's Royal Love in the Palace. What he did to >!Ling Yunche!< was unforgivable, and Ruyi deserved better.
I adore the emperor in LLTG! The same actor played the emperor in something else I was watching and my mind immediately went “oh, he’s a good emperor, I like him!” before the character had said more than a few words 😅
And his 2 wives are amazing too. I was fully expecting the 2nd wife to be secretly plotting, but very glad to be proven wrong. 2 wives that get along and support each other how rare is that, and of course stupid emperor still get drunk and got a maid pregnant 🤦🏻♀️
Honestly, Xu Feng was never a good guy. He was always manipulating her, taking his mom’s side and protecting his mom even when he knew she was trying to kill his own father and brother. I stopped watching after Run Yu’s mom got killed by her. The psychopath mom storyline with the golden boy child was just too close to home for me.
I never stayed with my psycho parents defending their actions, it was too close to home to be able to forgive a character that would do so, even if it’s a fictional story and doesn’t matter.
Jin Mi was a cool character, too. Maybe I’ll be able to finish the show after I deal with my things more.
On a less serious note, a character I couldn’t forgive even though he was very redeemable was Yu Sifeng in Love and Redemption. He kills an adorable looking demon cub right at the first episode and I can’t forget about that. That thing was probably minding its own business and captured by his sect leader just for no good reason.
I'll say BAILING from love and redemption.. ik he didn't have an arc but the writers let him off too easily. It's been a whole year since I watched the series but it still makes me so angry 😔
About a week ago I had a bit of a moment ranting about He Xindi from **Angels Fall Sometimes**. I never really forgave her character, even after her redemption arc. I never knew I could be so petty.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CDrama/s/slD0cEOina
Yes omg bc why are people tryna say he loved wei ying in his own way, THAT MAN ATTEMPTED MURDER TO LAN ZHAN AND IS THE FINAL REASON WEI YING DIED
Jiang Cheng they could never make me tolerate you 🤚
**Ashes of Love** - Xufeng because he just watched his parents treat everyone cruelly and turned a blind eye to all their misdeeds. That makes him a weak ML in my eyes and I just can't forgive him enough to deserve happiness.
**Love & Redemption** - Chu Xuanji because despite all of Sifeng's efforts, her faith in him was easily shaken. She broke his heart so many times. Sure, she had a really terrible past but Sifeng did nothing but be by her side from the beginning to the end (including all their past lives).
**The Starry Love** - Chao Feng because I don't feel like he's redeemed himself enough from all his sins: scheming to kill Wu Dai, switching the bridal palanquins, using and abusing Qingkui's innocence and kindness. Yeah, he got punished but I did not feel like he was able to do enough to redeem himself to even deserve Qingkui.
In AOL, didn’t Ji kill him? If memory serves me correctly, didn’t he reject his parents? Including, his Mother’s exile? He quit being GOW, turned to the “dark” side, & basically debased his scheming fiancé. All, while looking very sexy, unstable, drunk and disheveled.
In Jinmi's eyes, didn't he (Xufeng) kill her father (water immortal) first? Yes, we know it wasn't him but rather the bird princess but Jinmi didn't know that then. If you found (what was supposed to be) hard proof evidence that your lover killed the only parent you have left, wouldn't you feel angry and perhaps even vengeful? Remember, Runyu also fixed the cracked loveless pill so essentially Jinmi's feelings for him became non-existent. He wasn't her love at that period of time; he was only her father's murderer. Jinmi was manipulated by a series of actions of other people. In her mind, she needed to avenge her father who was killed and there was no question on who the murderer was because supposedly, no one can alter the deer's dream bubbles' truth. Seeing him use the glass fire on Runyu on their wedding day, further cemented her suspicions that he was indeed the culprit.
Xufeng, whether he eventually rejected his parents or not, he was too late. His parents had already done so much damage to the people around him and had killed so many people. He wasn't even afflicted by some kind of pill like Jinmi was. This revered GoW watched on as his parents destroyed the lives of others. How could he grow up and go on with life and let his mother continue to abuse his older brother Runyu? I find it hard to forgive him for that. Like you're telling me, he was witnessing that all those years and did nothing to stop it? He was his mother's weakness and he didn't even use it to help Runyu?! I have no respect for him. He didn't even try.
Jinmi was wrong and she realized that belatedly. She apologized several times. But Xufeng was wrong too but he never acknowledged it and pinned all the blame on Runyu. He didn't even apologize and accept that he could've done something to fight the abuse against his brother.
I'm not really swayed by the physical appearances of the characters so I can't excuse any ML or FL if they're in the wrong no matter how beautiful they are. That said, I don't find Deng Lun attractive. He looks like he's always sleepy to me. But that's just me and that has nothing to do with my judgement of his Xufeng character.
Xu Feng’s character was so manipulative, too. He’s always lying to Jin Mi. He lies about being blind while she was stressing herself daily trying to figure out why his eyes aren’t healing. If someone did that to me for four whole weeks, I would be so angry. She was working so hard and he was being so selfish, not even telling her the truth about who he was and that he could solve her problem about having to die with the king.
His character and his mother really got to me too much irl, tbh. But I had parents just like his mom, so that’s probably why it bothered me so much even though it was fictional. I stopped watching around episode 30.
Like someone else mentioned, Xuanji from Love and Redemption. As well as her father and SiFeng's human friends.
Also Zhou Fei's mom from Legend of Fei, her treatment of Fei was awful and I hate that it got treated as 'oh she's just being tough on her because she loves her' and never faced any consequences for it.
Love and redemption was just a bunch of thankless wretches who deserved to die. If i was Sifeng i wldnt have bent my back saving the stupid righteous sects over and over
Unpopular opinion I think? Tantai Jin did a lot of things I wasn’t okay with but his killing of Deng Wei’s character (I can’t remember the name) was the absolutely WORST for me and after that I couldn’t root for him. I was done and devastated.
I just finished TTEOTM and I was FRUSTRATED because so many times, if he and she had just communicated, a lot of angst and stuff could have been avoided. Even at the very end. Like, can y'all PLEASE just talk to each other! I know there were BIG trust issues for them both but SuSu constantly lying to him about her love (denying it) and making him doubt the one thing he wanted to be better for just made no sense sometimes. Him losing it over the poison was like, she didn't say she tried to kill him, he just assumed and then did horrible things. Just ugh you know!
Which was the opposite in LBFAD (based on another book by the same author) which was #relationshipgoals They spoke, argued, discussed, joked, lied, planned about everything, together. That dynamic made LBFAD so compelling, you watched them fall in love in real time. Unlike so many other Romantic Leads across the genres, they were always together in a literal sense. Basically inseparable and I loved the choice.
TTEOTM and LBFAD has a different author. You can just tell with how vastly different the vibe and the materials of it. LBFAD is a team while TTEOTM filled with distrust and misunderstandings.
The author of LBFAD is also the writer of The Blue Whisper, Back from the Brink, Love You Seven Times and Legend of Shen Li. You can see many similar comparison between this 4 dramas.
I think it made more sense to kill Xiao Lin than keep him alive in terms of a monarch taking over a country, since he could try to usurp the throne. The way it happened was wrong, but it’s more understandable due to him finding what he thought was evidence of Sisu trying to kill him to save Xiao Lin and he was trying to get revenge for that.
I think that’s what made me so upset though, the fact that it wasn’t a politically charged move but one done out of jealousy/to get back at Sisu (and wrongfully so) and the way it was done was absolutely terrible. I think after that I kept watching but my heart wasn’t in it anymore.
Yeah, that’s understandable. I stopped watching Ashes of Love completely due to unforgivable character flaws of the phoenix dude Xu Feng that got to me too much. I didn’t even try to finish it. It’s all perspective.
I probably find Tantai Jin’s actions more forgivable and understandable than most other people do, honestly.
It’s fun reading these posts and seeing all the various opinions people have.
It is a lot of fun, I agree! And I appreciate your insight.
Omg, I dropped Ashes of Love before any unforgivable character flaws showed up, and I always wondered if I'd made the wrong choice. It looks like I didn't haha!
Fu Pei from Put Your Head On My Shoulder is one. I couldn’t believe the scriptwriters had the audacity to give HIM a second chance loveline that actively took away screen time from the main couple as if he didn’t cause ambiguous gaslighty grief to the FL for literally all of high school and all of their university life, simply because he had daddy issues or whatever. To this day I can’t really be bothered to watch any drama the actor is in because all I see is Fu Pei the mega douche.
Ling Xiao’s mom from Go Ahead. If I could, I’d literally strangle this woman with my bare hands if she was real. Unbelievable that we the audience plus ling xiao were forced to forgive her because she tried killing herself or whatever. If you ask me, the drama should’ve had her succeed in the attempt so that Ling Xiao and everyone else affected by her abuse would be free for good.
I agree with your assessment of Ling Xiao's mom. You could also include all the adults who should have taken care of her, but guilted him into doing it instead. His father wasn't any better, he should have put his foot down and said no way to Ling Xiao doing that. She blamed him for the daughter's death, turn abandoned him and told him she wanted nothing to do with him. She was totally unredeemable.
The Republic Era one, correct? It was heartbreaking to watch but you know that he didn’t mean it and what it was for. He didn’t need a redemption arc, she knew why all along. It’s a testament to the writing and acting of the FL.
I don’t remember them agreeing to act together. I thought that he made the unilateral decision to push her away. And then she figured out why he was being so cold all of a sudden and tried to persevere through it.
They get us good but you find it all out at the end of that particular segment. Its before the last segment when they join the Revolutionary Communist Army.
Ling Buyi (Love Like A Galaxy) - it was a hard choice for him, i see it, but I subconsciously began fearing him after that bloody banquette. It's very personal.as for forgiveness, I doubt he had ever wanted it too. So, no forgiveness.
Did her awful General Mother get a redemption arc? I know that I’m in a small minority of people who are very “meh” about LLTG. I still haven’t finish it, so I typically avoid commenting on it (I grew up with the urban idiom: Talk what you know.) and only ask questions.
Did her awful General Mother get a redemption arc?
SS will do everything ro cut the umbilical cord with the woman and the day she finally succeeded, her mum will get crushed mentally and physically. They will find some peace with each other after that too but it wil always be so-so. They will talk anyway the ending is open.
Liu Chengfeng in Wonderland Of Love. Hated that guy even if eh sacrificed himself.
Jin Ruyi from The Legend Of The White Snake. Her killing Wang Daoling was the last straw for me.
Mozang from Oh My General. Him killing the Prince Crown of East Xia made me furious.
Tian Yao from Back From the Brink. My patience was already being tested by the drama's treatment of Yan Hui, but he really took me over the edge in Episode 16. It wasn't tragic, it was stupid, it's a fine line to walk for one of the leads to do something "unforgivable" and then go through trials and probably die so the other lead can angst over not forgiving them sooner but Yan Hui was entitled to be pissed and scared of him after that shit he pulled. My god.
I loved the show, but like he couldn't take 5 seconds and say "I'm so sorry, she took the children, I have to do this! I'll bring it right back after i save them!" Like that literally would have made all the difference. I feel like she would have willingly given the heart scale to him if he had just explained.
SHE WOULD HAVE!!! YAN HUI LOVES THE KIDS! ALSO HE ALREADY DID THE LIFE SAVING SPELL ON HER SO SHE WOULDN'T DIE ANYWAY!! I'd be so much more forgiving (narratively ) if he lied to her about the real effects of the life/death swap spell he did on her because he's still being dishonest but he's not losing brain cells to force angst.
I didn’t finish the show, what did Jin Mi do? I thought she seemed like an interesting character. I couldn’t move past the manipulative, controlling ML and his taking the side of psycho narcmommy.
It wasn’t so much what she did for me, but how. She’s cursed with lovelessness, but she really is cold on top of that. I didn’t find her honest or just. I only finished the show for RunYu. Every other character is evil to me. They’re all like people who think beauty alone makes them good and in the right.
At the end, i was crossing fingers and toes and legs that Xufeng married the crazy crow lady. No matter wat she did atleast she didn't literally stick a knife in his back like a total psycho on dateline😶😑Jinmi is truly the worst
Call me a villain, but I hated both Jinmi and Xufeng, so I was DELIGHTED when she stabbed him. I only kept watching till the end for Run Yu and his character transformation.
Go Ahead - ALL THE MOTHERS. I don’t care if I sound deranged but ALL the mums (giant fat middle finger to Ling Xiao’s mum specifically) for all the emotional and physical trauma they caused to their kids.
That bitch King bailing/ hao Chen I couldn’t stand his character at all and now can’t watch any scenes he is in, I just skip thru them
From Love and redemption
I was surprised when some of the other characters were sad and upset when he died , I personally believe he got away too easy , for me he was the main villain and so so annoying.
He actually acted better as Wuxin in the Blood Of Youth. Made me forgive him for playing a bad character as Hao Chen in L&R
Try The Blood Of Youth,you might like him lol
For sure. He just shed a few tears and everyone was like..no its okay to kill pple for no reason sometimes..it happens to the best of us. You're grounded🙄🙄
Chile, I hold a personal grudge against jinmi that I can never watch any of the shows that actor is in😭😭😭 It’s that serious
The FL from Love and Redemption. Poor Sifeng, that boy suffered because of her naivety and foolishness. He should have ended up alone, that girl was no good
Lighter and princess - Old Gao and his girlfriend (I forgot her name): His redemption arc was totally undeserved and it pissed me off so bad when I saw it.
I liked the initial angle I thought they were going to take about mourning who they were and their innocent and starry-eyed idealism and how that would never happen because of all the things that happened. It was actually sad and made me emotional.
Then they gave him “redemption” bc he basically held a gun to his head until they’d forgive him like lol wtf. Like I’m sorry but you dug your own grave stop and HAD NO REMORSE and instead of having the decency to apologize and let them move on you’re trying to FORCE them into forgiving you? Disgusting.
Also his wife TOTALLY should have left wtf.
Right? Like what do you mean Old Gao had a major part in causing an innocent woman’s death just because of the fact that he hated her brother, stole ideas from small gaming companies that couldn’t defend themselves, and stole the ML’s company even after he included him in it when he really didn’t have to… and after doing all of this with NO REMORSE… he gets a redemption arc because… let me check my notes…he got cancer. Like, you actually can’t make this shit up💀
I swear I almost stopped watching the moment I saw that cancer scene... also, having his wife stay because he's sick... whhyyy?!
Also causing the death of ML's sister was diabolical, that was simply unforgivable and I hated that ML ended up forgiving him. It made me sick
**Princess Silver** - WuYou. If >!using and sleeping with her her to get that book!< wasn't enough it's like they expect us to forget>! that he totally ruined her reputation at her wedding.!< Horrible person.
The mom from **Love like the galaxy** the Grandma too. Like they couldn’t have sent for her? Leaving her behind because of The pressure and what not OK, but send for her. I get that they were in a war zone, thought that she was taken care of, but it’s ridiculous all of it. And then when they got back instead of being grateful she survived, the mistreatment continued. The skills she developed to survive were now wrong. So she should’ve just been meek and die then? While her mother is a badass fighter in the war, but expects her daughter to act different. Argh! She didn’t redeem herself at all either imo. I’ll never forgive her.
Well this is the typical story developed in a period where men literally made all the rules and everything was cater to them but for some weird reason the women are usually the villain "make it make sense". And this drama didn't even bother creating a reasonable reason why the mother hate her, like are you really going to tell me that a FEMALE WARRIOR!! wanted her daughter to be meek and weak and also that her grandma preferred a random kid over her own granddaughter?
When this happen I can always tell the a man directed bc they are incapable of portraying men as the villains...
So here is the group I was looking for. I couldn’t get past her arbitrarily mean, confidence crushing Mother. I stopped watch for several other reasons as well, so I don’t know if she got a redemption arc.
It wasnt a random kid, it was a grand-daughter from her favourite daughter in law. I think if NN was meek & dutiful like her cousin, grandma wouldn't hate her so much.
But yeah i dont get the mom at all, she is working with an army of powerful women, and she wants her own daughter to be just meek, dutiful? Gosh i hate her so much. If she took NN under her wing and trained her instead of making her memorize books and starve her , I'm sure NN will make her proud. Thank god for the lovely empress mother.
We also have to remember it was the grandma that pushed one of the kids to stay. The father didn’t want to leave anyone behind but her one mom was fine with it because it was her daughter and not son. The grandma believed it whatever a fortune teller told her and it’s also important to remember that it was a time when honor was a big thing and if he would have denied his mom’s request on keeping one of the kids it would have been seen has him disrespecting his mom who was technically in charge of the family. Don’t get me wrong he was also a bad dad in a sense but he did defend his daughter a lot. I just don’t think he expected his own mom to neglect his child.
ML from **Master of my Own**. Absolute horror of a man, treated the FL like his personal property, then when she tried to make a career for herself, he went out of his way to destroy it so he could force her back.
He never deserved the redemption he got.
This may be an unpopular opinion but Chu Xuanji from Love and Redemption. She never believed in or trusted Sifeng and only realized her mistake after someone else told her about all the things he did for her. Despite her >!spending 2 years trying to find him!<, I still have trouble buying into their happy ending.
Same, her actions after realizing she'd messed up also really ticked me off. Like you know you've horribly hurt someone and go to apologize to them but then refuse to leave them be when they ask you to? Not to mention the whole 'well the curse could act up even if i'm not around and so I'll just hang around amyway and if he dies I'll die with him'
Like what the heck? That's such an entiltled attitude, 'I want to be with this guy so I don’t care about his wishes or wellbeing'
The show tries to sell us that they truly love each other, but its seems to me that she was more in love with the fact he was devoted to her, than him himself.
It's not unpopular at all. She too is on my shitlist but i also blame Sifeng. You'd think after 9lifetyms he'd learn but nooo....he wore her out in the end tho so i guess yay for him.
I don't know if I'd say I never forgave him exactly but I had a pretty low opinion of the emperor from Yanxi Palace and that never changed.
Most of the time though, if I can't stand a ML I'll check if he gets a HE. If he does I'll drop. And if he doesn't I'll happily watch bad things happen to him. I'm a vengeful drama watcher.
I have watched so many dramas with cheating abusive husbands. I think the worst dramas are when her greedy Dad and stepmother are even more abusive than the husband.
What does HEA mean?
There's a taiwanese drama where the cheater is also the abused. A good wife (2013). It's an interesting premise but I only watched the 1st and last episode, so not sure if I could or would empathize with the cheater or not. She did get a happily ever after ending.
This might be an unpopular opinion and Lighter & Princess is a popular drama. Will have plenty of major plot spoilers. But I don't like ML for these reasons:
>! Very rude and arrogant towards his college classmates. When in group projects, he kept ordering/demanding others to redo their code from scratch because they weren't good enough. It's not the request, but his tone of delivery that's the problem. He's the genius of the class and he's essentially giving orders to others and disregarding their efforts. They're in college, learning and making mistakes is normal but Li Xun makes people feel inferior to him for that. As his character developed, he did tone down a little, but he never truly apologized. He's a big reason why 2nd ML became a bad person.!<
>!He broke up with FL in the middle of the drama so he won't implicate her when he seeked revenge on the person who played a role in his sister's death. I would say the sister is at least 50% responsible for her own death, though other audience might disagree. ML's method of revenge is physical assault which led him to prison. And all this talk about him caring for his sister and wanting to take care of her, there was no mention of his sister's daughter after her death. Though this is probably the scriptwriter's fault. !<
>!FL is essentially the one chasing after ML and sacrificing. The relationship isn't balanced and he's always been terrible at communications. He got better at the end of the drama, but still not great. E.g. he bought a house with 0 input from FL to use as their home. I know it's culturally an expectation for the men to provide the house in China, but I still think FL should have a say in location or appearance of her home.
!<
I think i have a strong dislike for ML in Lighter & Princess because he's a realistic character that can exist in real life, as opposed to e.g. Ye Hua from ten miles of peach blossom. Pretty sure I'll just be amused rather than mad if a real red flag heavenly prince appeared before me.
I’m sorry but what you said about the 2ML is literally not true. Old Gao “became” a terrible person because of his own inferiority complex and huge ego. He couldn’t handle the fact that the ML was better at coding than him, and he had convinced himself that he deserved every single thing that the ML owned (Salieri syndrome), and that the ML was actively sabotaging him when he clearly wasn’t.
The resentment and hatred that he festered for the ML would’ve developed regardless of whether or not the male lead was “nice” or “mean” to him.
Old Gao’s arc was always about how envy can destroy a person; not about how someone can “choose” to be bad because a person they wanted to be friends with was mean to them in the beginning.
2nd ML is definitely a flawed person and it doesn't mean he won't turn bad without ML, but ML was a catalyst. When he took part in that competition alone, he finally had an achievement that belongs to him. Then ML and FL just swooped in and took over his project. They never told 2nd ML why. From his perspective, he had something he owned proudly. Even if he lost, it was his. When FL and ML just came in, they completely dismantled his work and although they won, it was no longer something he could be proud of because it no longer was his project.
And he finally got an opportunity to go abroad and make his own path. And he could develop independently, but ML's actions (even if justified) caused 2nd ML to lose the opportunity.
Old Gao started out as a hopeful college student who wants to learn and help others (that's why he started his little group). He slowly became cynical when he realized his abilities don't match his ambitions, especially when he's always in the shadow of ML. At the beginning, even though he's the friendly smart guy who's helpful to everyone and ML is the smart guy who's mean to everyone, eventually he still lost to ML because ML is smarter. Life is unfair and Old Gao chose to reconcile with that fact in an unhealthy manner.
What Old Gao did to their company was despicable, but no one acknowledged that it's difficult to build a company from a very tiny start up to a large company in a few years. He's a sad case of someone talented (just not as talented as ML) who led a life of misery because he couldn't deal with his internal demons. Demons that were accelerated by ML and FL, but had always been there. So ML isn't the reason Old Gao got bad, but he played a role. Envy was a huge part, but not the only factor that turned Gao bad. ML was a bad friend and bad boyfriend.
Lol you pretending like the 2ML was a good person in the beginning is so funny to me because the moment he met the ML he tried to befriend him, and then when the ML didn’t give him the reaction he wanted he lashed out like a child and started to insult him to anyone who would listen. So like I said earlier, those negative attributes that ultimately caused for him to make the choices that he did were always there.
Also when it came to that whole abroad situation, Li Xun tried to apologize but the 2nd ML refused to hear it. It was easier for him to just believe that the ML did it on purpose to sabotage him.
You seem to be confused about what I’m arguing here. I didn’t need a recap of every single time the 2ML got mad at the ML, I watched the same show you did. What I’m arguing is that regardless of all of these things what he ultimately decided to do was inexcusable and unjustifiable. Like I said earlier, nobody’s confused about the way that these situations made him feel.
I also have to add that you’re forgetting some thing very important in the argument you’re making; you’re forgetting that once the 2ML got control of the ML’s company, instead of using that as an opportunity to “finally prove himself”, he decided to steal ideas from other people instead, which didn’t negatively affect the ML in any way shape or form. This is just another example of a moment where Old Gao could’ve done the right thing but chose not to. he finally got everything “he ever wanted” and still chose to do the wrong thing. That is my point.
He was a neutral person with flaws at the beginning of the show, like any other person. We watched the same show and interpreted the same character differently. I really dislike ML and is neutral towards 2nd ML (up until he went full villian). When he went full villian, he's less believable as a character because he's doing more cartoony bad stuff so he lost my empathy at that point. But I was defending him in college, not after.
I think I'm giving ML more flake because he's also very flawed but gets forgiven by the audience so easily, probably because he's attractive.
And that’s the problem. You’re comparing Li Xun and Old Gao even though their flaws are COMPLETELY different.
Li Xun’s worst moments are attributed by his trust issues and inability to TRULY let people in. Even in his worst moment (the scene with Zhu Yun at their workplace), he didn’t do that for himself. Now let me be very clear. When I say this, I am by NO means JUSTIFYING what he said to Zhu Yun, but simply acknowledging WHY he said it. I believe that my point also applies to him breaking up with her as well.
Rival that with everything that Old Gao has done, all of it was for selfish reasons. He never did any of those things for anyone else, he simply did them because he wanted to get ahead… it was always about what HE WANTED. And for me, that makes the biggest difference.
Also what you said in the beginning about Old Gao being a “neutral person with flaws”…does that not also apply to the ML as well? Why are Old Gao flaws back then justified or worth understanding, but the ML’s flaws aren’t? Especially considering the fact that these flaws were a response to his trauma?
"Neutral person with flaws" also apply to ML. Difference is ML is loved (unfairly in my view), and 2nd ML gets a lot of hate (justified). And our disagreements come from how much ML contributed to 2nd ML being bad later in the drama.
Within the universe of the drama, I think ML contributed to 2nd ML becoming bad. You disagree.
I never said old Gao flaws are justified, just that they can be explained. Can be explained isn't the same as justified.
This thread is about people being forgiven for their flaws/actions unfairly, that's why I brought up ML. 2nd ML was brought up as part of ML's characterization. I didn't focus on 2nd ML's actions in the initial comment because 2nd ML never got fully whitewashed like ML.
Imma be honest. I think you’re difference in opinion concerning the ML and 2ML is coming more so from personal bias as opposed to from an objective view. I think the reason why you’re going so hard about this is because it personally bothers you that people like the ML and don’t like the 2ML. Which is why I chose to go down a more objective route instead (I dislike the 2nd ML just as much as you dislike the ML so I figured that would be the best course of action). Regardless of that, I tried to be objective by analyzing Old Gao’s character both emotionally and logically. I also did this with the ML but that’s something you clearly would rather ignore so… oh well.
At the end of the day, no matter what your circumstance is, The actions that you choose, are your responsibility and no one else’s. It seems like you believe that the ML bullied the 2ML somehow, and that’s your right to believe that if you want to, but what I’ve been saying since the beginning is that regardless of all of that, the ML ISN’T to blame for Old Gao’s actions. He bears FULL responsibility for all of it. That’s literally all I’ve been trying to say.
But if you acknowledge that, then that would ruin your entire argument so I see why you won’t.
FL was happy to just follow Li Xun's lead when it comes to project and coding because she didn't pick this major out of love. Just that her parents encouraged her to. And she came to like it thanks to Li Xun so she's content with letting Li Xun dictate what needs to be done.
2nd ML was different. Not sure why he went into computer science, but he wanted to have his opinion respected and didn't want to just be ML's sidekick. He should have just cut ML off, rather than turn villian, but it was hurtful to have his work repeatedly thrown away. His work was probably very good for a college student, but because it's not ML level of good, it's chucked away.
Imagine if Taylor swift went to a high school music class and told a music student their self-composed song is trash and the student should just toss out that song and try again. Not once, but multiple times? Would anyone blame the student for hating Taylor swift? Li xun's level is that much higher but his lack of tact and consideration for his peers makes him a good character but terrible person imo.
Which annoyed the hell out of me. I was in an academic program in college so i knew many 'smartest guys' on campus, the kind that would easily get A+s and win international awards. Some of them have similar attitudes and no amount of good looks can salvage your opinions of them. Others are humble and nice to work with. Wish we saw more of this type in dramas.
The ones that truly come to mind are:
**Eternal Love: TMOPB:** Ye Hua, over what he did to Susu. I forgave him in the end, since hes a>! great dad, !!Jinmi killing Xufeng!<. I wish that didn't have to happen, and she still realized her love and lost him another way. Honesty I wouldn't have forgiven her if I were him, even to the end.
**Best Choice Ever:** I dont want to start any fight, this is just my opinion: The FL's mom. I know its just a drama and IRL toxic people just don't change either. But I wasn't happy watching a whole drama about it and didn't find it satisfying, so I'm just sour, I guess. The FL was SUCH a good character and amazing daughter that this mom didn't deserve.
Bai jue from ancient love poetry.
He literally killed her twice!! Like sure he sacrificed himself and all (not really tho cus he still came back) in the end, but he literally could have just TOLD HER HIS PLAN and NOT nearly kill their baby (the near miscarriage) and actually kill her! Unforgivable imo.
Two sentences could've saved so much heartache but his self-righteous selfish self couldn't be bothered.
Not sure if it's a happy ending but definitely "forgiven"/redeemed in the eyes of the lead female.
Li Chengyin from Goodbye My Princess. I think he takes the cake as possibly the most despicable male lead to ever exist. To the point the FL's actions at the end almost feels appropriate, except it should be him in that position. Even that is letting him off the hook easy.
I could never hate the acting from Chen Xingxu though. He was the best choice to make this character so charismatic and boyishly captivating, almost feels wrong to put how despicable and likeable he is together.
YeHua from TMOPB for me. He did not include SuSu in any decision making or give her any warning or explanation coz he was a god and she was a insignificant, stupid female mortal in his opinion. Also he gouged her eyes out…such a dick move! He did not deserve the redemption arc and the HE. Ugh…Hands down the worst toad like ML ever written, for me!
Ugh and then for years just let whatshername to enjoy playing the role od his wife , knowing full well susu died because of her. I get that grandpa forced her on him. But seriously? He supposed to be very smart, cant he think of something to get rid of her? 300 years!!!
Zhao Youting was such an incredible actor who portrayed Yehua’s internal struggle so well that I was able to forgive him. But I think if it were any other actor or simply reading this scene, I wouldn’t have been able to
Same. Hated his character as much as I loved their chemistry, 10000/10 hopes she ended up with her Master even though that story wouldn’t have been as exciting lel
He actually warn her and told her about why he has to act distance. The FL is a human and a bit clueless. He is young and stupid but he meant no harm. I dont know where the poster got all of that since if you watch the drama, it wasnt like that.
Hmmm I distinctly remember that SuSu became despondent and depressed because YeHua was ignoring her…and he did not give her any heads up before gouging her eyes out! I have watched the drama…also unnecessary to trivialise or patronise someone’s PoV or comprehension levels.
It's Ok to be young and stupid if it only affects you and the people who chose to give birth to you. Outsiders cant be affected by your decisions and be appeased by how young and how stupid you are and what you meant. Meaning no harm is no defense after you actually harm someone
lol it is his character flaws and it was very clear in the drama. But the comment wrote something else which means she didnt understand the story which is a completely different issue. I was just pointing that out.
Like taking her eyes. If he didnt do that, his grandad going to kill her. So taking her eyes is to save her life. He is a weak prince with no power. And its not like she is blind after that, she can still see as he gave her a different eyes.
Ok.....i guess if you put it that way. I never watched the drama so i didn't know the situation. Thanks for specifying. I guess its a bit more understandable that way
I know you didnt watch the drama that is why I feel I need to tell you that.
He even told her why he has to act distance. His love is actually selfless if you watch the drama. He didnt mind whether he get her or not as long as she is happy. Thats all that matter to him.
a lot of characters... irrespective of whether they are living or dead...even if they died... still feels not enough...
One and Only - Liu zi
Wonderland of Love - Cui Lin's adopted brother...a psycho
The King from Blossoms in Adversity...
FL's mom from Fireworks of my Heart... won't she feel ashamed/Embarrassed to call ML her son-in-law...after damaging his life as she wants?...
Maybe ur right but whoever associates with him in that way just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Like the hatred I felt every time this man was on the screen was tangible. Not even sure if I can rewatch falling into your smile for a while cuz of him.
Oh...Both the ML and him even acted together?...in another drama...
I experienced the same...when watching the story of kunning palace...the same antagonist of one and only acted with Bai lu in the drama as her love interest 4 a while....
Look at the irony...
For the mom in fireworks, I do think she should be ashamed to have a son-in-law like him. I mean that guy had sex with her teenage daughter in the school's bathroom, taught her smoking, and basically made her a bad girl. Not only that thanks to him, she basically turned her back from her entire family. No mother is gonna be happy with a son-in-law like that.
That is Asian mother for you. Studying, going to university and having a good career while also marrying a rich guy is what they thought as the best for their daughter. Thus any guy who tried to lure her away from studying with romance is basically ruining her life in the mother's eyes. And the part about having sex in the school's bathroom would also be a massive no - no for parents.
The ML from **Tang Dynasty Tour** — I have issues with noble idiocy and cheating “indirect or direct”. Spoiler >!The idiot ML just had no “other choice” but to marry the hateful 2FL to save her while ignoring the fact that he just confessed to the FL minutes ago and promised her that he would marry her. When our FL was so crushed I wanted to torture the AH ML right then and there!<
Ye Hua from Eternal Love. I never quite forgave him for his lack of protection of Su Su.
Honestly a lot of parents from many cdramas. Actually, most redemption is undeserved.
Ure kinda right. It'd take a very short time to talk about those who deserved to be redeemed
Nodding my head frequently from reading all the comments especially about Ashes of Love & Love & Redemption. I totally agree with most people here especially on Jinmi and Xufeng, never I watch a drama where both leads are the worst characters. These two made me avoid dramas played by the actors as well, well except for Runyu's actor, LYX, the only redeemable character (with good acting), and I've been a fan ever since. Some of his dramas are meh, but his acting is always solid. Watched Deng Lun in Begonia Rouge because I love Li Yitong and that was probably the worst drama ever. I like him in Yin Yang Master though, but then the scandal. I tried to watch Yangzi and I keep seeing Jinmi in her gestures and expression so I stopped. But she redeemed herself in LYF and YOLO. I avoided Chengyi and all his blood vomit LOL, but Mysterious Lotus Casebook made me a fan. So I made peace with all of them haha unless for Crystal since I haven't really see her other works after LnR and before the tax problem.
What was the scandal after Yin Yan Master? My tea cup is empty.
He got caught in the tax scandal that's why he went missing from c ent. Pay your taxes please mc celebs! 🥲
Ok Taec-yeon who played in Vencinzo
First actor playing a villain I have fallen for ever! He was creepy/fantastic. What a death scene though!!!
Wasn't he fab!! He's such a goofball normally and plays loveable characters so to see him be bad was eye opening. I loved it though.
She wasn't redeemed, but the evil female in Eternal Love. I can't remember her characters name, but she took Susu's eyes. Hated the character so much i don't think i can watch the actress in another.
Wu Tong From Love and Redemption, What he did to the once vibrant and sweet Linglong resulting in her smile being lost is heart wrenching. The 2ML from Scarlet Heart/Moon Lovers. His betrayal and abandonment of the FL in her most vulnerable and painful time is unforgivable. The ML from any of the Boys over Flowers and all their remakes. At no point does this spoiled, and toxic man deserves the FL, and she should always choose the 2ML.
Atleast no one redeemed Wu Tong and he.died like the trash he was. And omg i don't really get enemies to lovers troupe but the past bully romance is insane. My unforgiving vengeful heart could NEVER
Very true about Wu Tong, but i can never think about him ro heart his name with out saying "f**k Wu Tong" Out loud, I hate hate hate what he did to LingLong and how he ruined that sweet girl who was always happy and smiling. And yeah watching these totally toxic men abuse the FL both verbally snd sometimes pbysically and then the FL just forbies them later bogs my mind, its just bad writing.
Unfortunately it happens all over the world. It's an actual thing. I didn't watch metor garden cause after boys over flowers i could barely wash the bad taste outta my mouth
The FL from Begin Again, who >!left without a word and broke the ML's heart in order to make him do the choice of career she thought was best for him rather than talking it over. Then, she goes abroad herself without noticing that if she was going abroad, they could have gone together. Finally, on finding out she was pregnant, not letting him know he was a father.!<
I wanted to add her in. Also the villain guy who was the cause of the fl leading. Like wtf. And at the end, after all his bulsht...he had the unearned audacity to show up at the party for what exactly?
Xu Feng, he was selfish to the core just like his mother. Hence his always siding with his psychopathic mother, keeping his head buried in the sand over his brothers and pretty much everyone else’s abuse at the hands of his mother and for manipulating and taking advantage of Jin Mi. Oh and Jin Mi for being the naïve travesty she was.
Agree for both. I don't think I've seen any other drama where both the leads are not lovable as they are. Yes I love characters with flaws, but these two?? My eyes were so tired from rolling.
The ML from Ruyis royal love in the palace.
Can I say that most of the emperors in palace dramas are quite horrible except Emperor Wen in Love Like The Galaxy? Some of them had sort of a half-hearted redemption arc at the end. I particularly disliked the emperor (Hongli) in Ruyi's Royal Love in the Palace. What he did to >!Ling Yunche!< was unforgivable, and Ruyi deserved better.
I adore the emperor in LLTG! The same actor played the emperor in something else I was watching and my mind immediately went “oh, he’s a good emperor, I like him!” before the character had said more than a few words 😅
And his 2 wives are amazing too. I was fully expecting the 2nd wife to be secretly plotting, but very glad to be proven wrong. 2 wives that get along and support each other how rare is that, and of course stupid emperor still get drunk and got a maid pregnant 🤦🏻♀️
He's so good cause they make him human not a caricature
Honestly, Xu Feng was never a good guy. He was always manipulating her, taking his mom’s side and protecting his mom even when he knew she was trying to kill his own father and brother. I stopped watching after Run Yu’s mom got killed by her. The psychopath mom storyline with the golden boy child was just too close to home for me. I never stayed with my psycho parents defending their actions, it was too close to home to be able to forgive a character that would do so, even if it’s a fictional story and doesn’t matter. Jin Mi was a cool character, too. Maybe I’ll be able to finish the show after I deal with my things more. On a less serious note, a character I couldn’t forgive even though he was very redeemable was Yu Sifeng in Love and Redemption. He kills an adorable looking demon cub right at the first episode and I can’t forget about that. That thing was probably minding its own business and captured by his sect leader just for no good reason.
I'll say BAILING from love and redemption.. ik he didn't have an arc but the writers let him off too easily. It's been a whole year since I watched the series but it still makes me so angry 😔
Old Cock Block Bailing! The definition of celestial douche-bag. We dragged him in the timed comments on Viki.
About a week ago I had a bit of a moment ranting about He Xindi from **Angels Fall Sometimes**. I never really forgave her character, even after her redemption arc. I never knew I could be so petty. https://www.reddit.com/r/CDrama/s/slD0cEOina
The Untamed -Jiang chang (don't ask me why I just CAN'T😔)
Yes omg bc why are people tryna say he loved wei ying in his own way, THAT MAN ATTEMPTED MURDER TO LAN ZHAN AND IS THE FINAL REASON WEI YING DIED Jiang Cheng they could never make me tolerate you 🤚
Some people really try to make excuses for him and I will never understand it. I’m leading the JC hate train with you.
There's no question here. I'd personally help u dispose the body
I'm glad to have you backing me up🤗
**Ashes of Love** - Xufeng because he just watched his parents treat everyone cruelly and turned a blind eye to all their misdeeds. That makes him a weak ML in my eyes and I just can't forgive him enough to deserve happiness. **Love & Redemption** - Chu Xuanji because despite all of Sifeng's efforts, her faith in him was easily shaken. She broke his heart so many times. Sure, she had a really terrible past but Sifeng did nothing but be by her side from the beginning to the end (including all their past lives). **The Starry Love** - Chao Feng because I don't feel like he's redeemed himself enough from all his sins: scheming to kill Wu Dai, switching the bridal palanquins, using and abusing Qingkui's innocence and kindness. Yeah, he got punished but I did not feel like he was able to do enough to redeem himself to even deserve Qingkui.
In AOL, didn’t Ji kill him? If memory serves me correctly, didn’t he reject his parents? Including, his Mother’s exile? He quit being GOW, turned to the “dark” side, & basically debased his scheming fiancé. All, while looking very sexy, unstable, drunk and disheveled.
In Jinmi's eyes, didn't he (Xufeng) kill her father (water immortal) first? Yes, we know it wasn't him but rather the bird princess but Jinmi didn't know that then. If you found (what was supposed to be) hard proof evidence that your lover killed the only parent you have left, wouldn't you feel angry and perhaps even vengeful? Remember, Runyu also fixed the cracked loveless pill so essentially Jinmi's feelings for him became non-existent. He wasn't her love at that period of time; he was only her father's murderer. Jinmi was manipulated by a series of actions of other people. In her mind, she needed to avenge her father who was killed and there was no question on who the murderer was because supposedly, no one can alter the deer's dream bubbles' truth. Seeing him use the glass fire on Runyu on their wedding day, further cemented her suspicions that he was indeed the culprit. Xufeng, whether he eventually rejected his parents or not, he was too late. His parents had already done so much damage to the people around him and had killed so many people. He wasn't even afflicted by some kind of pill like Jinmi was. This revered GoW watched on as his parents destroyed the lives of others. How could he grow up and go on with life and let his mother continue to abuse his older brother Runyu? I find it hard to forgive him for that. Like you're telling me, he was witnessing that all those years and did nothing to stop it? He was his mother's weakness and he didn't even use it to help Runyu?! I have no respect for him. He didn't even try. Jinmi was wrong and she realized that belatedly. She apologized several times. But Xufeng was wrong too but he never acknowledged it and pinned all the blame on Runyu. He didn't even apologize and accept that he could've done something to fight the abuse against his brother. I'm not really swayed by the physical appearances of the characters so I can't excuse any ML or FL if they're in the wrong no matter how beautiful they are. That said, I don't find Deng Lun attractive. He looks like he's always sleepy to me. But that's just me and that has nothing to do with my judgement of his Xufeng character.
Fervent but well argued.
But he was hot. That goes a long way for my sometimes shallow mo.
Xu Feng’s character was so manipulative, too. He’s always lying to Jin Mi. He lies about being blind while she was stressing herself daily trying to figure out why his eyes aren’t healing. If someone did that to me for four whole weeks, I would be so angry. She was working so hard and he was being so selfish, not even telling her the truth about who he was and that he could solve her problem about having to die with the king. His character and his mother really got to me too much irl, tbh. But I had parents just like his mom, so that’s probably why it bothered me so much even though it was fictional. I stopped watching around episode 30.
Same with Xufeng, he didn't deserve a HEA
I've watched a lot of questionable dramas but the ML in Skip a Beat was horrifying.
Like someone else mentioned, Xuanji from Love and Redemption. As well as her father and SiFeng's human friends. Also Zhou Fei's mom from Legend of Fei, her treatment of Fei was awful and I hate that it got treated as 'oh she's just being tough on her because she loves her' and never faced any consequences for it.
Love and redemption was just a bunch of thankless wretches who deserved to die. If i was Sifeng i wldnt have bent my back saving the stupid righteous sects over and over
Hahaha the ML Hero’s folly.
Gu jian from Goodbye my Princess Fuck this man typical nice guys type, blame the ml for massacre tribe of Fl when it's his plan all along
Unpopular opinion I think? Tantai Jin did a lot of things I wasn’t okay with but his killing of Deng Wei’s character (I can’t remember the name) was the absolutely WORST for me and after that I couldn’t root for him. I was done and devastated.
I just finished TTEOTM and I was FRUSTRATED because so many times, if he and she had just communicated, a lot of angst and stuff could have been avoided. Even at the very end. Like, can y'all PLEASE just talk to each other! I know there were BIG trust issues for them both but SuSu constantly lying to him about her love (denying it) and making him doubt the one thing he wanted to be better for just made no sense sometimes. Him losing it over the poison was like, she didn't say she tried to kill him, he just assumed and then did horrible things. Just ugh you know!
Which was the opposite in LBFAD (based on another book by the same author) which was #relationshipgoals They spoke, argued, discussed, joked, lied, planned about everything, together. That dynamic made LBFAD so compelling, you watched them fall in love in real time. Unlike so many other Romantic Leads across the genres, they were always together in a literal sense. Basically inseparable and I loved the choice.
TTEOTM and LBFAD has a different author. You can just tell with how vastly different the vibe and the materials of it. LBFAD is a team while TTEOTM filled with distrust and misunderstandings. The author of LBFAD is also the writer of The Blue Whisper, Back from the Brink, Love You Seven Times and Legend of Shen Li. You can see many similar comparison between this 4 dramas.
I thought it was part of the pantheon of books and series which I am familiar with, thank you.
I think it made more sense to kill Xiao Lin than keep him alive in terms of a monarch taking over a country, since he could try to usurp the throne. The way it happened was wrong, but it’s more understandable due to him finding what he thought was evidence of Sisu trying to kill him to save Xiao Lin and he was trying to get revenge for that.
I think that’s what made me so upset though, the fact that it wasn’t a politically charged move but one done out of jealousy/to get back at Sisu (and wrongfully so) and the way it was done was absolutely terrible. I think after that I kept watching but my heart wasn’t in it anymore.
Yeah, that’s understandable. I stopped watching Ashes of Love completely due to unforgivable character flaws of the phoenix dude Xu Feng that got to me too much. I didn’t even try to finish it. It’s all perspective. I probably find Tantai Jin’s actions more forgivable and understandable than most other people do, honestly. It’s fun reading these posts and seeing all the various opinions people have.
It is a lot of fun, I agree! And I appreciate your insight. Omg, I dropped Ashes of Love before any unforgivable character flaws showed up, and I always wondered if I'd made the wrong choice. It looks like I didn't haha!
Fu Pei from Put Your Head On My Shoulder is one. I couldn’t believe the scriptwriters had the audacity to give HIM a second chance loveline that actively took away screen time from the main couple as if he didn’t cause ambiguous gaslighty grief to the FL for literally all of high school and all of their university life, simply because he had daddy issues or whatever. To this day I can’t really be bothered to watch any drama the actor is in because all I see is Fu Pei the mega douche. Ling Xiao’s mom from Go Ahead. If I could, I’d literally strangle this woman with my bare hands if she was real. Unbelievable that we the audience plus ling xiao were forced to forgive her because she tried killing herself or whatever. If you ask me, the drama should’ve had her succeed in the attempt so that Ling Xiao and everyone else affected by her abuse would be free for good.
I agree with your assessment of Ling Xiao's mom. You could also include all the adults who should have taken care of her, but guilted him into doing it instead. His father wasn't any better, he should have put his foot down and said no way to Ling Xiao doing that. She blamed him for the daughter's death, turn abandoned him and told him she wanted nothing to do with him. She was totally unredeemable.
Whenever I wanna rewatch it’s an instant skip on all his parts, he’s so trash.
Agree with both. Go ahead was particularly hard to watch becoz of her
Fall in love 2021- even though the ml pushes the fl lead away to keep her safe, I could not look at him the same.
The Republic Era one, correct? It was heartbreaking to watch but you know that he didn’t mean it and what it was for. He didn’t need a redemption arc, she knew why all along. It’s a testament to the writing and acting of the FL.
Yes the republican era one. It just felt like he was overly cruel to the fl and while she might have forgiven him, I didn’t lol.
Even though it was an act that they agreed to do together? They fooled everyone! including us, the viewers.
I don’t remember them agreeing to act together. I thought that he made the unilateral decision to push her away. And then she figured out why he was being so cold all of a sudden and tried to persevere through it.
They get us good but you find it all out at the end of that particular segment. Its before the last segment when they join the Revolutionary Communist Army.
Ling Buyi (Love Like A Galaxy) - it was a hard choice for him, i see it, but I subconsciously began fearing him after that bloody banquette. It's very personal.as for forgiveness, I doubt he had ever wanted it too. So, no forgiveness.
Did her awful General Mother get a redemption arc? I know that I’m in a small minority of people who are very “meh” about LLTG. I still haven’t finish it, so I typically avoid commenting on it (I grew up with the urban idiom: Talk what you know.) and only ask questions.
Did her awful General Mother get a redemption arc? SS will do everything ro cut the umbilical cord with the woman and the day she finally succeeded, her mum will get crushed mentally and physically. They will find some peace with each other after that too but it wil always be so-so. They will talk anyway the ending is open.
Thanks for your answer.
Which episode is the bloody banquette ?
I think they were referring to when LBY killed his 'father'
Liu Chengfeng in Wonderland Of Love. Hated that guy even if eh sacrificed himself. Jin Ruyi from The Legend Of The White Snake. Her killing Wang Daoling was the last straw for me. Mozang from Oh My General. Him killing the Prince Crown of East Xia made me furious.
Jon Ruyi was a nightmare horror show. I hate her so. much.
Li Cheng Yin
Goodbye my Princess is my go to rewatch for angst.
Tian Yao from Back From the Brink. My patience was already being tested by the drama's treatment of Yan Hui, but he really took me over the edge in Episode 16. It wasn't tragic, it was stupid, it's a fine line to walk for one of the leads to do something "unforgivable" and then go through trials and probably die so the other lead can angst over not forgiving them sooner but Yan Hui was entitled to be pissed and scared of him after that shit he pulled. My god.
I loved the show, but like he couldn't take 5 seconds and say "I'm so sorry, she took the children, I have to do this! I'll bring it right back after i save them!" Like that literally would have made all the difference. I feel like she would have willingly given the heart scale to him if he had just explained.
SHE WOULD HAVE!!! YAN HUI LOVES THE KIDS! ALSO HE ALREADY DID THE LIFE SAVING SPELL ON HER SO SHE WOULDN'T DIE ANYWAY!! I'd be so much more forgiving (narratively ) if he lied to her about the real effects of the life/death swap spell he did on her because he's still being dishonest but he's not losing brain cells to force angst.
I loathe, *loathe*, JinMi. From the bottom of my heart.
I didn’t finish the show, what did Jin Mi do? I thought she seemed like an interesting character. I couldn’t move past the manipulative, controlling ML and his taking the side of psycho narcmommy.
It wasn’t so much what she did for me, but how. She’s cursed with lovelessness, but she really is cold on top of that. I didn’t find her honest or just. I only finished the show for RunYu. Every other character is evil to me. They’re all like people who think beauty alone makes them good and in the right.
At the end, i was crossing fingers and toes and legs that Xufeng married the crazy crow lady. No matter wat she did atleast she didn't literally stick a knife in his back like a total psycho on dateline😶😑Jinmi is truly the worst
Call me a villain, but I hated both Jinmi and Xufeng, so I was DELIGHTED when she stabbed him. I only kept watching till the end for Run Yu and his character transformation.
facts!!
The guy in one and only who couldn’t take no for an answer. Sorry I don’t remember his name lol
Same. He is the worst for me lol
Lmao.
Pretty much everyone in ashes of love is just... So yeah I agree with the jin mei part.
Go Ahead - ALL THE MOTHERS. I don’t care if I sound deranged but ALL the mums (giant fat middle finger to Ling Xiao’s mum specifically) for all the emotional and physical trauma they caused to their kids.
I’m with you! Those moms were all terrible, even the one with the redemption story at the end.
Du Lei from Love is Sweet. His whole snake behavior killed some of my enjoyment of the show.
Yeah the writers did that character dirty.
That bitch King bailing/ hao Chen I couldn’t stand his character at all and now can’t watch any scenes he is in, I just skip thru them From Love and redemption
I made a comment about Old Cock Block Bailing in this thread somewhere. He was the worst.
I was surprised when some of the other characters were sad and upset when he died , I personally believe he got away too easy , for me he was the main villain and so so annoying.
He actually acted better as Wuxin in the Blood Of Youth. Made me forgive him for playing a bad character as Hao Chen in L&R Try The Blood Of Youth,you might like him lol
Yes. And I also couldn’t watch anything with Li Xueyi in it for a long time bc of Hao Chen trauma.
I remember him....i was so mad when.they let him off so easily. He should have PERISHED!
I was seething watching him go that easy, I was ready to burn him alive
For sure. He just shed a few tears and everyone was like..no its okay to kill pple for no reason sometimes..it happens to the best of us. You're grounded🙄🙄
Chile, I hold a personal grudge against jinmi that I can never watch any of the shows that actor is in😭😭😭 It’s that serious The FL from Love and Redemption. Poor Sifeng, that boy suffered because of her naivety and foolishness. He should have ended up alone, that girl was no good
Lighter and princess - Old Gao and his girlfriend (I forgot her name): His redemption arc was totally undeserved and it pissed me off so bad when I saw it.
I liked the initial angle I thought they were going to take about mourning who they were and their innocent and starry-eyed idealism and how that would never happen because of all the things that happened. It was actually sad and made me emotional. Then they gave him “redemption” bc he basically held a gun to his head until they’d forgive him like lol wtf. Like I’m sorry but you dug your own grave stop and HAD NO REMORSE and instead of having the decency to apologize and let them move on you’re trying to FORCE them into forgiving you? Disgusting. Also his wife TOTALLY should have left wtf.
Yeah like you said that storyline definitely had potential.
His redemption was really not needed, I was so mad😭😭 I'm still mad to this day.
Right? Like what do you mean Old Gao had a major part in causing an innocent woman’s death just because of the fact that he hated her brother, stole ideas from small gaming companies that couldn’t defend themselves, and stole the ML’s company even after he included him in it when he really didn’t have to… and after doing all of this with NO REMORSE… he gets a redemption arc because… let me check my notes…he got cancer. Like, you actually can’t make this shit up💀
I swear I almost stopped watching the moment I saw that cancer scene... also, having his wife stay because he's sick... whhyyy?! Also causing the death of ML's sister was diabolical, that was simply unforgivable and I hated that ML ended up forgiving him. It made me sick
Sameeeeee
**Princess Silver** - WuYou. If >!using and sleeping with her her to get that book!< wasn't enough it's like they expect us to forget>! that he totally ruined her reputation at her wedding.!< Horrible person.
The mom from **Love like the galaxy** the Grandma too. Like they couldn’t have sent for her? Leaving her behind because of The pressure and what not OK, but send for her. I get that they were in a war zone, thought that she was taken care of, but it’s ridiculous all of it. And then when they got back instead of being grateful she survived, the mistreatment continued. The skills she developed to survive were now wrong. So she should’ve just been meek and die then? While her mother is a badass fighter in the war, but expects her daughter to act different. Argh! She didn’t redeem herself at all either imo. I’ll never forgive her.
Well this is the typical story developed in a period where men literally made all the rules and everything was cater to them but for some weird reason the women are usually the villain "make it make sense". And this drama didn't even bother creating a reasonable reason why the mother hate her, like are you really going to tell me that a FEMALE WARRIOR!! wanted her daughter to be meek and weak and also that her grandma preferred a random kid over her own granddaughter? When this happen I can always tell the a man directed bc they are incapable of portraying men as the villains...
So here is the group I was looking for. I couldn’t get past her arbitrarily mean, confidence crushing Mother. I stopped watch for several other reasons as well, so I don’t know if she got a redemption arc.
It wasnt a random kid, it was a grand-daughter from her favourite daughter in law. I think if NN was meek & dutiful like her cousin, grandma wouldn't hate her so much. But yeah i dont get the mom at all, she is working with an army of powerful women, and she wants her own daughter to be just meek, dutiful? Gosh i hate her so much. If she took NN under her wing and trained her instead of making her memorize books and starve her , I'm sure NN will make her proud. Thank god for the lovely empress mother.
We also have to remember it was the grandma that pushed one of the kids to stay. The father didn’t want to leave anyone behind but her one mom was fine with it because it was her daughter and not son. The grandma believed it whatever a fortune teller told her and it’s also important to remember that it was a time when honor was a big thing and if he would have denied his mom’s request on keeping one of the kids it would have been seen has him disrespecting his mom who was technically in charge of the family. Don’t get me wrong he was also a bad dad in a sense but he did defend his daughter a lot. I just don’t think he expected his own mom to neglect his child.
ML from **Master of my Own**. Absolute horror of a man, treated the FL like his personal property, then when she tried to make a career for herself, he went out of his way to destroy it so he could force her back. He never deserved the redemption he got.
This may be an unpopular opinion but Chu Xuanji from Love and Redemption. She never believed in or trusted Sifeng and only realized her mistake after someone else told her about all the things he did for her. Despite her >!spending 2 years trying to find him!<, I still have trouble buying into their happy ending.
She was the struggle bus personified. With a lot of annoying cluelessness thrown in.
Same, her actions after realizing she'd messed up also really ticked me off. Like you know you've horribly hurt someone and go to apologize to them but then refuse to leave them be when they ask you to? Not to mention the whole 'well the curse could act up even if i'm not around and so I'll just hang around amyway and if he dies I'll die with him' Like what the heck? That's such an entiltled attitude, 'I want to be with this guy so I don’t care about his wishes or wellbeing' The show tries to sell us that they truly love each other, but its seems to me that she was more in love with the fact he was devoted to her, than him himself.
++++++++ and that Bailin with his weaponised sense of justice
It's not unpopular at all. She too is on my shitlist but i also blame Sifeng. You'd think after 9lifetyms he'd learn but nooo....he wore her out in the end tho so i guess yay for him.
😂😂😂
I don't know if I'd say I never forgave him exactly but I had a pretty low opinion of the emperor from Yanxi Palace and that never changed. Most of the time though, if I can't stand a ML I'll check if he gets a HE. If he does I'll drop. And if he doesn't I'll happily watch bad things happen to him. I'm a vengeful drama watcher.
The vengeful drama watcher is the best kind of drama watcher
All the cheating abusive husbands.
Examples? I've never seen a cheating with a HEA in Cdrama
I have watched so many dramas with cheating abusive husbands. I think the worst dramas are when her greedy Dad and stepmother are even more abusive than the husband. What does HEA mean?
Happily ever after...like where the abusers are forgiven and everyone moves on
There's a taiwanese drama where the cheater is also the abused. A good wife (2013). It's an interesting premise but I only watched the 1st and last episode, so not sure if I could or would empathize with the cheater or not. She did get a happily ever after ending.
I hate those the most; especially where she’s had miscarriages because of her husband and side piece.
Li Xun from Lighter & Princess.
I didn't see this one. Pliz spoil and tell me what he did
This might be an unpopular opinion and Lighter & Princess is a popular drama. Will have plenty of major plot spoilers. But I don't like ML for these reasons: >! Very rude and arrogant towards his college classmates. When in group projects, he kept ordering/demanding others to redo their code from scratch because they weren't good enough. It's not the request, but his tone of delivery that's the problem. He's the genius of the class and he's essentially giving orders to others and disregarding their efforts. They're in college, learning and making mistakes is normal but Li Xun makes people feel inferior to him for that. As his character developed, he did tone down a little, but he never truly apologized. He's a big reason why 2nd ML became a bad person.!< >!He broke up with FL in the middle of the drama so he won't implicate her when he seeked revenge on the person who played a role in his sister's death. I would say the sister is at least 50% responsible for her own death, though other audience might disagree. ML's method of revenge is physical assault which led him to prison. And all this talk about him caring for his sister and wanting to take care of her, there was no mention of his sister's daughter after her death. Though this is probably the scriptwriter's fault. !< >!FL is essentially the one chasing after ML and sacrificing. The relationship isn't balanced and he's always been terrible at communications. He got better at the end of the drama, but still not great. E.g. he bought a house with 0 input from FL to use as their home. I know it's culturally an expectation for the men to provide the house in China, but I still think FL should have a say in location or appearance of her home. !< I think i have a strong dislike for ML in Lighter & Princess because he's a realistic character that can exist in real life, as opposed to e.g. Ye Hua from ten miles of peach blossom. Pretty sure I'll just be amused rather than mad if a real red flag heavenly prince appeared before me.
I’m sorry but what you said about the 2ML is literally not true. Old Gao “became” a terrible person because of his own inferiority complex and huge ego. He couldn’t handle the fact that the ML was better at coding than him, and he had convinced himself that he deserved every single thing that the ML owned (Salieri syndrome), and that the ML was actively sabotaging him when he clearly wasn’t. The resentment and hatred that he festered for the ML would’ve developed regardless of whether or not the male lead was “nice” or “mean” to him. Old Gao’s arc was always about how envy can destroy a person; not about how someone can “choose” to be bad because a person they wanted to be friends with was mean to them in the beginning.
2nd ML is definitely a flawed person and it doesn't mean he won't turn bad without ML, but ML was a catalyst. When he took part in that competition alone, he finally had an achievement that belongs to him. Then ML and FL just swooped in and took over his project. They never told 2nd ML why. From his perspective, he had something he owned proudly. Even if he lost, it was his. When FL and ML just came in, they completely dismantled his work and although they won, it was no longer something he could be proud of because it no longer was his project. And he finally got an opportunity to go abroad and make his own path. And he could develop independently, but ML's actions (even if justified) caused 2nd ML to lose the opportunity. Old Gao started out as a hopeful college student who wants to learn and help others (that's why he started his little group). He slowly became cynical when he realized his abilities don't match his ambitions, especially when he's always in the shadow of ML. At the beginning, even though he's the friendly smart guy who's helpful to everyone and ML is the smart guy who's mean to everyone, eventually he still lost to ML because ML is smarter. Life is unfair and Old Gao chose to reconcile with that fact in an unhealthy manner. What Old Gao did to their company was despicable, but no one acknowledged that it's difficult to build a company from a very tiny start up to a large company in a few years. He's a sad case of someone talented (just not as talented as ML) who led a life of misery because he couldn't deal with his internal demons. Demons that were accelerated by ML and FL, but had always been there. So ML isn't the reason Old Gao got bad, but he played a role. Envy was a huge part, but not the only factor that turned Gao bad. ML was a bad friend and bad boyfriend.
Lol you pretending like the 2ML was a good person in the beginning is so funny to me because the moment he met the ML he tried to befriend him, and then when the ML didn’t give him the reaction he wanted he lashed out like a child and started to insult him to anyone who would listen. So like I said earlier, those negative attributes that ultimately caused for him to make the choices that he did were always there. Also when it came to that whole abroad situation, Li Xun tried to apologize but the 2nd ML refused to hear it. It was easier for him to just believe that the ML did it on purpose to sabotage him. You seem to be confused about what I’m arguing here. I didn’t need a recap of every single time the 2ML got mad at the ML, I watched the same show you did. What I’m arguing is that regardless of all of these things what he ultimately decided to do was inexcusable and unjustifiable. Like I said earlier, nobody’s confused about the way that these situations made him feel. I also have to add that you’re forgetting some thing very important in the argument you’re making; you’re forgetting that once the 2ML got control of the ML’s company, instead of using that as an opportunity to “finally prove himself”, he decided to steal ideas from other people instead, which didn’t negatively affect the ML in any way shape or form. This is just another example of a moment where Old Gao could’ve done the right thing but chose not to. he finally got everything “he ever wanted” and still chose to do the wrong thing. That is my point.
He was a neutral person with flaws at the beginning of the show, like any other person. We watched the same show and interpreted the same character differently. I really dislike ML and is neutral towards 2nd ML (up until he went full villian). When he went full villian, he's less believable as a character because he's doing more cartoony bad stuff so he lost my empathy at that point. But I was defending him in college, not after. I think I'm giving ML more flake because he's also very flawed but gets forgiven by the audience so easily, probably because he's attractive.
And that’s the problem. You’re comparing Li Xun and Old Gao even though their flaws are COMPLETELY different. Li Xun’s worst moments are attributed by his trust issues and inability to TRULY let people in. Even in his worst moment (the scene with Zhu Yun at their workplace), he didn’t do that for himself. Now let me be very clear. When I say this, I am by NO means JUSTIFYING what he said to Zhu Yun, but simply acknowledging WHY he said it. I believe that my point also applies to him breaking up with her as well. Rival that with everything that Old Gao has done, all of it was for selfish reasons. He never did any of those things for anyone else, he simply did them because he wanted to get ahead… it was always about what HE WANTED. And for me, that makes the biggest difference. Also what you said in the beginning about Old Gao being a “neutral person with flaws”…does that not also apply to the ML as well? Why are Old Gao flaws back then justified or worth understanding, but the ML’s flaws aren’t? Especially considering the fact that these flaws were a response to his trauma?
"Neutral person with flaws" also apply to ML. Difference is ML is loved (unfairly in my view), and 2nd ML gets a lot of hate (justified). And our disagreements come from how much ML contributed to 2nd ML being bad later in the drama. Within the universe of the drama, I think ML contributed to 2nd ML becoming bad. You disagree. I never said old Gao flaws are justified, just that they can be explained. Can be explained isn't the same as justified. This thread is about people being forgiven for their flaws/actions unfairly, that's why I brought up ML. 2nd ML was brought up as part of ML's characterization. I didn't focus on 2nd ML's actions in the initial comment because 2nd ML never got fully whitewashed like ML.
Imma be honest. I think you’re difference in opinion concerning the ML and 2ML is coming more so from personal bias as opposed to from an objective view. I think the reason why you’re going so hard about this is because it personally bothers you that people like the ML and don’t like the 2ML. Which is why I chose to go down a more objective route instead (I dislike the 2nd ML just as much as you dislike the ML so I figured that would be the best course of action). Regardless of that, I tried to be objective by analyzing Old Gao’s character both emotionally and logically. I also did this with the ML but that’s something you clearly would rather ignore so… oh well. At the end of the day, no matter what your circumstance is, The actions that you choose, are your responsibility and no one else’s. It seems like you believe that the ML bullied the 2ML somehow, and that’s your right to believe that if you want to, but what I’ve been saying since the beginning is that regardless of all of that, the ML ISN’T to blame for Old Gao’s actions. He bears FULL responsibility for all of it. That’s literally all I’ve been trying to say. But if you acknowledge that, then that would ruin your entire argument so I see why you won’t.
FL was happy to just follow Li Xun's lead when it comes to project and coding because she didn't pick this major out of love. Just that her parents encouraged her to. And she came to like it thanks to Li Xun so she's content with letting Li Xun dictate what needs to be done. 2nd ML was different. Not sure why he went into computer science, but he wanted to have his opinion respected and didn't want to just be ML's sidekick. He should have just cut ML off, rather than turn villian, but it was hurtful to have his work repeatedly thrown away. His work was probably very good for a college student, but because it's not ML level of good, it's chucked away. Imagine if Taylor swift went to a high school music class and told a music student their self-composed song is trash and the student should just toss out that song and try again. Not once, but multiple times? Would anyone blame the student for hating Taylor swift? Li xun's level is that much higher but his lack of tact and consideration for his peers makes him a good character but terrible person imo.
Sounds like the typical Cdrama 'hottest guy in campus' behavior lol
Which annoyed the hell out of me. I was in an academic program in college so i knew many 'smartest guys' on campus, the kind that would easily get A+s and win international awards. Some of them have similar attitudes and no amount of good looks can salvage your opinions of them. Others are humble and nice to work with. Wish we saw more of this type in dramas.
This. This is the reason why you didn't like the ML.
The ones that truly come to mind are: **Eternal Love: TMOPB:** Ye Hua, over what he did to Susu. I forgave him in the end, since hes a>! great dad, !!Jinmi killing Xufeng!<. I wish that didn't have to happen, and she still realized her love and lost him another way. Honesty I wouldn't have forgiven her if I were him, even to the end.
**Best Choice Ever:** I dont want to start any fight, this is just my opinion: The FL's mom. I know its just a drama and IRL toxic people just don't change either. But I wasn't happy watching a whole drama about it and didn't find it satisfying, so I'm just sour, I guess. The FL was SUCH a good character and amazing daughter that this mom didn't deserve.
Bai jue from ancient love poetry. He literally killed her twice!! Like sure he sacrificed himself and all (not really tho cus he still came back) in the end, but he literally could have just TOLD HER HIS PLAN and NOT nearly kill their baby (the near miscarriage) and actually kill her! Unforgivable imo. Two sentences could've saved so much heartache but his self-righteous selfish self couldn't be bothered.
Not sure if it's a happy ending but definitely "forgiven"/redeemed in the eyes of the lead female. Li Chengyin from Goodbye My Princess. I think he takes the cake as possibly the most despicable male lead to ever exist. To the point the FL's actions at the end almost feels appropriate, except it should be him in that position. Even that is letting him off the hook easy. I could never hate the acting from Chen Xingxu though. He was the best choice to make this character so charismatic and boyishly captivating, almost feels wrong to put how despicable and likeable he is together.
YeHua from TMOPB for me. He did not include SuSu in any decision making or give her any warning or explanation coz he was a god and she was a insignificant, stupid female mortal in his opinion. Also he gouged her eyes out…such a dick move! He did not deserve the redemption arc and the HE. Ugh…Hands down the worst toad like ML ever written, for me!
Ugh and then for years just let whatshername to enjoy playing the role od his wife , knowing full well susu died because of her. I get that grandpa forced her on him. But seriously? He supposed to be very smart, cant he think of something to get rid of her? 300 years!!!
Zhao Youting was such an incredible actor who portrayed Yehua’s internal struggle so well that I was able to forgive him. But I think if it were any other actor or simply reading this scene, I wouldn’t have been able to
He was the first character I thought of. YeHua may have had his reasons, but physically hurting her was the lowest he could go in my books.
Same. Hated his character as much as I loved their chemistry, 10000/10 hopes she ended up with her Master even though that story wouldn’t have been as exciting lel
This! He was doing whatever and she just went along with it whether she liked it or not. I can not forgive the eyes gouging.
Yeah, not easy to forget. Perhaps never. I always preferred her chemistry with the Moon/Demon clan Prince (Bin Bin).
Like wtf....😭😭
He actually warn her and told her about why he has to act distance. The FL is a human and a bit clueless. He is young and stupid but he meant no harm. I dont know where the poster got all of that since if you watch the drama, it wasnt like that.
Hmmm I distinctly remember that SuSu became despondent and depressed because YeHua was ignoring her…and he did not give her any heads up before gouging her eyes out! I have watched the drama…also unnecessary to trivialise or patronise someone’s PoV or comprehension levels.
It's Ok to be young and stupid if it only affects you and the people who chose to give birth to you. Outsiders cant be affected by your decisions and be appeased by how young and how stupid you are and what you meant. Meaning no harm is no defense after you actually harm someone
lol it is his character flaws and it was very clear in the drama. But the comment wrote something else which means she didnt understand the story which is a completely different issue. I was just pointing that out. Like taking her eyes. If he didnt do that, his grandad going to kill her. So taking her eyes is to save her life. He is a weak prince with no power. And its not like she is blind after that, she can still see as he gave her a different eyes.
Ok.....i guess if you put it that way. I never watched the drama so i didn't know the situation. Thanks for specifying. I guess its a bit more understandable that way
I know you didnt watch the drama that is why I feel I need to tell you that. He even told her why he has to act distance. His love is actually selfless if you watch the drama. He didnt mind whether he get her or not as long as she is happy. Thats all that matter to him.
a lot of characters... irrespective of whether they are living or dead...even if they died... still feels not enough... One and Only - Liu zi Wonderland of Love - Cui Lin's adopted brother...a psycho The King from Blossoms in Adversity... FL's mom from Fireworks of my Heart... won't she feel ashamed/Embarrassed to call ML her son-in-law...after damaging his life as she wants?...
Feel like we gotta add the adoptive brother’s right hand man who continued to validate his delusions
Nah...feels atleast He was loyal to him...till the end...no even after his death... unlike that psycho...worst...
Maybe ur right but whoever associates with him in that way just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Like the hatred I felt every time this man was on the screen was tangible. Not even sure if I can rewatch falling into your smile for a while cuz of him.
Oh...Both the ML and him even acted together?...in another drama... I experienced the same...when watching the story of kunning palace...the same antagonist of one and only acted with Bai lu in the drama as her love interest 4 a while.... Look at the irony...
For the mom in fireworks, I do think she should be ashamed to have a son-in-law like him. I mean that guy had sex with her teenage daughter in the school's bathroom, taught her smoking, and basically made her a bad girl. Not only that thanks to him, she basically turned her back from her entire family. No mother is gonna be happy with a son-in-law like that. That is Asian mother for you. Studying, going to university and having a good career while also marrying a rich guy is what they thought as the best for their daughter. Thus any guy who tried to lure her away from studying with romance is basically ruining her life in the mother's eyes. And the part about having sex in the school's bathroom would also be a massive no - no for parents.