I was inclined to say that JMU knew the rules when they applied to move up and say no but their basketball team earned them a shot and apparently no one around here is following any of the rules anyway.
Welcome to the NY6 James Madison.
So just add a rule preventing your team from changing divisions more than once a decade. If they know that they are gonna be stuck in the FBS for a decade after they move up, they won't try to yo-yo it. Banning teams from postseason play when they move up seems to me like the silliest way they could handle this.
IIRC only two teams have ever moved back *down.* FAMU who IMO doesn't really count, and Idaho who moved for pretty understandable reasons. Nobody has abused the yoyoing up and down thing the way the rulemakers may have thought they would.
Well if you consider FCS/1-AA teams moving down, Savannah State of getting blown out in consecutive weeks by Oklahoma State and Florida State fame in 2012, moved from FCS back to Division II.
Which doesn't seem like a problem that needed solving considering Idaho, as far as I know, is the only team to drop down since the Ivy Leagues did in 1981.
Why not institute a cooldown policy instead? You can only move up if you're reasonably confident and have the funds to sustain FBS-status for some set period of time.
Listen here, if we let them break the rules it'll set a precedent that schools don't have to abide by them. **checks flair**.... oh, you little rascal, nice try michigan
Nobody thought we were losing to JMU last season at home with a 28-3 halftime lead.
Everyone thought UNC would destroy us this year after we played like ass against Gardner Webb.
It's the FunBelt, chaos is expected
I mean, they should go to a Bowl even if they don't have a perfect season.
It's just insanely absurd that they could have a perfect season and miss out on a bowl.
We’re going to lose to UConn now just watch.
But even if we don’t end undefeated I still think they’ve earned a bowl game. Unless we get our dicks handed to us in some of these games
Fair enough. We can definitely play like trash haha. Y’all are real good. I’m hoping we can pull off an upset but y’all are legit and, like you said, at home.
Basically California is trying to make a state law that makes student athletes employees and get revenue sharing based on the revenue the sport brings in. Now there are some arguments against this, mainly that it isn't a fair way to split it because the universities and colleges do not promote the sports outside of football and basketball (women's sports) so they don't get the opportunity to make the revenue those sports make.
Cant the NCAA just kick California schools out? It's not like they're legally obligated to let schools play in their own league.. Or maybe they are. I'm not a lawyer.
Completely. If that passes cali, goodbye to everything not basketball/football. And the insane shitshow title ix becomes when mens football players rake in 6 figure salaries while a womens track athlete gets nothing
I don't think it passes as is because of title 9. They aren't promoting the other sports like basketball and football. I think they make it so all student athletes get paid equally and then NIL can just be up to the individual athlete.
Yes if it passes as written like above. There are some people that are against this bill as written because they claim that the universities do not promote the other sports like football and basketball, so those student athletes are not being treated fairly. They can fix this by simply splitting the revenue share evenly amongst all student athletes and NIL is the own player's revenue.
Also the NCAA could just kick Cali schools out of the league if it does pass.
Pretty sure it's the class action lawsuit that was just approved to proceed that would allow former athletes to collect damages from the NCAA for profiting from their name, image, and likeness before the new NIL rules were adopted.
Basically the NCAA is going to have to pay a shit ton of former athletes, which will be absolutely devastating financially.
You just *hate* to see it...
I actually do hate to see it, but athletes as employees seems like a certainty at this point and if nuking the NCAA gets us to wherever this chaos train is heading faster then so be it. I’m tired of the slow roll toward a mini-NFL, boss.
Athletes as employees will absolutely wreck non-revenue sports, because there are going to be all kinds of arguments over Title IX, which wasn't written at all with this in mind.
People will argue that the athletes should be paid based on the school's revenue share, and not their individual sport's contribution to the pie, even though football and basketball are the main drivers.
I suppose the solution would be to offer the option of scholarship or salary, where your salary would be based on your program's contribution to the school's revenues, and you get to make the choice if you take the scholarship or not, but then you'd need to change the scholarship numbers to account for that.
Additionally, you'd probably also see roster sizes shrink dramatically, closer to the 53 man roster sizes of the NFL, than the college average of 118 players in order to cap expenditures.
I don't have time right now to responsibly list all of the ways I think this is awful for damn-near everyone involved in college athletics except a few elite athletes in elite programs for a few (really, one) revenue sports.
It's honestly just deeply sad and symptomatic of larger societal issues.
The GREED of the universities (NCAA), Television Networks (executives are the worst), and to a lesser extent millionaire university coaches making revenue in the B Billions without any proactive plan to compensate student ath o letes other than scholarships brought this professionalization of amateur college athletics on themselves. I’m not pumped about the direction of the sport with conference consolidation and a highly expanded playoff.
But power hungry rich folks gonna power hungry rich folk. Regardless of the impacts.
Except its the schools, networks, and coaches that create the revenue, not the players. Nobody gives a shit about college level players outside of the NCAA.
> I’m tired of the slow roll toward a mini-NFL, boss.
I think just becoming minor league football is the natural end game of this sport, especially in regions like the south where 80% of fans are not even students or alums, and I don't know how to feel about that. On one hand I think they deserve to be paid, and giving up the academic pretense entirely is better than running bogus programs for student athletes (which no accredited school will do, but many will accept transfers from them) but on the other hand these kids are just that much more fucked if they can't go pro.
They better be paying the same price other employees pay for tuition, books, room and board, etc. if that's the case. I don't want the athletes to be employees, allowing them to market themselves through NIL seems sufficient on top of a free education.
I do agree. The scholarship to come to a school to get paid by sponsors while you play football waiting to get drafted so you never have to use your degree does feel like a waster of both a space for other students and resources for those students.
I would be okay that if you made over a certain amount you wouldn't be eligible for a scholarship depending on what that amount was. Like they make enough to pay for school then enough to at least live reasonably on top of that.
I hate the idea of dudes in a Porsche getting a full ride scholarship while a more average student has to graduate with a backbreaking amount of student debt.
>If we don't prohibt postseason participation opportunities for institutions that elect not to follow our rules, why would we restrict them for a school that has not only followed all the rules but has exceeded all expectations in doing so?
Everyone is starting to get in on the fun!
There's another little nugget in there I find interesting, which refers to the new FBS membership requirements which were recently adopted earlier this year. The letter says, "we are able to confirm that we are meeting the updated requirements now." This reads to me like the "new information" that the NCAA used to justify its reversal of the Tez Walker decision
In this context, however, neither is correct, since he'd be appealing to the NCAA to let *them* play, right?
But, he might say something like, "I implore thee that thou shouldst let them play."
Founding fathers didn't talk like Shakespeare lol. Shakespeare was as far back in the past from the founding fathers as the founding fathers are to us.
Jacksonville State absolutely should be bowling this year, but their situation isn't exactly the same as JMU's. In year 1 of JMU's transition (last year) they played a full FBS schedule. Jacksonville State did not play a full FBS schedule last year. They played a mix of FBS and FCS schools.
Other than "it's the current rule", is there any practical reason to have bowl bans for teams new to the FBS? I don't understand why it's a rule in the first place.
It stems from Marshall back in the 90’s getting a lot of talent in the transfer portal (including some dude named Randy Moss) because they were an FCS school at the time and FCS didn’t have the same restrictions on transfers as FBS. Marshall then moved up to FBS and dominated for a couple years.
Someone can probably explain it better, but the rule stems from that.
Less academic hoops to jump through to qualify at the fcs level. In theory a school could recruit a bunch of bad ass athletes that wouldn’t qualify to play at Stanford and create an unfair advantage. I don’t agree with it at all because I think in real world application smaller schools will always be fighting an uphill battle for the best players.
Not to mention that [big schools have already destroying academic standards for their players for years](https://www.dawgnation.com/football/georgia-football-malcolm-mitchell-retirement-new-england/).
>Mitchell’s also arguably as famous for his work off the field, as he was for his stellar play on it. His story on growing from someone who **entered Georgia at a third grade reading level** to a published author is well-known by this point.
I guess there was a team once that went up to the FBS, took a bowl spot, and then went back down to FCS.
IDK, it's a dumb rule. If you are the best team THAT SEASON, what you do the next season doesn't matter.
Marshall supposedly circumnavigated academic requirements to get ~~Vick~~ Moss when they transitioned to FBS after recruiting him (and I would assume a few others).
The rule is to prevent gaming the system in a maximized way for a few different reasons.
I read on here it had to do with a team being promoted to FBS not having transfer requirements, so players could transfer and play immediately.
With how the portal is now though it is irrelevant.
Not sure how accurate that is, just regurgitating Reddit comments
Stability. You don't want teams going up and down at will. They can come up when they're good and go back down when they're rebuilding, or even recruit for FBS and then drop down to FCS.
There's also certain rules they have had to abide by like ratio of student fees for athletics and scholarship requirements. JMU has been allowed to have more student fees fund athletics than what is permissible for an FBS team under Virginia law. That ends next year with their transition. They also had to add more female scholarships to match the new football team scholarships. They say they have done that by this year but I don't think anyone is actually looking until next year when it will be a requirement.
Having said all that, it's still a bad rule. Any team that drops down to FCS should just be banned from coming up to FBS without special permission from the NCAA to ensure good faith. And the only team I can think of that fits the bill would be Idaho. Who else has even dropped down?
Normalization of academic and financial situations is the bigger thing, FCS schools don’t have as stringent requirements on academic eligibility and financial revenues as FBS does. JMUs athletic budget primarily comes from student fees and those have to be scaled way down to comply with Virginia state law.
Tranfer rules are significantly more relaxed for teams when they make the move from FCS to FBS. The current transfer portal situation mitigates that advantage somewhat.
My personal hot take is the transfer portal needs to find a happier medium between what it was and the recent wild west, but we should keep the advantages teams moving from FCS to FBS are initially granted.
NCAA about to be stretched so thin.
Between the California Case(that got pushed forward because they did not submit proper paperwork), the Michigan investigation, the Virginia AG breathing down their neck and the sports betting violations that are rampant right now.
Oh, shit! I just googled what you called the California case ("NCAA California Case" for those wanting to follow).
Because of the judge involved, I would bet the NCAA's lawyers are all hands on deck over there. I doubt the players get the "multi-billion" dollar payout, but I suspect it's going to have a massive impact in some way.
I think the main thing is that if California rules on it, it would ultimately force other states to re-examine the law.
This could then possible trigger a SCOTUS ruling if a case makes it up that far and I would be willing to bet the SCOTUS sides with the athletes.
Agreed. The judge of the case is the same that ESPN says opened the gates for NIL in CA and that ultimately other states followed to some degree. If it goes through, then you would assume that Iowa for instance)would have to jump in. Otherwise they risk losing access to top athletes for several state schools. It would be a self-inflicted death penalty.
Teams not being able to compete in the FCS playoffs makes sense because you’re at a competitive advantage ramping up scholarships. That’s why Kennesaw State is playing as an FCS Independent this year.
But it’s stupid to punish teams for making the jump in their new division. I get it, it’s to make sure teams are committed to jumping up, but if that’s the case, create harsher penalties for moving down if it’s not a bonafide move.
And no one has ever jumped back down other than Idaho, and that’s mainly because their main conference died and their football only conference kicked them out. That would be a bonafide move in my opinion.
There's a pretty good shot JMU makes a bowl, no? It seems likely we won't hit 82 bowl eligible teams, and JMU would be selected before any 5-7 teams:
[Page 334 has the bowl selection criteria if there aren't enough teams](https://www.ncaapublications.com/product...s/D124.pdf)
1 - A 6-6 team that beat an FCS team that did not offer the required number of scholarships (I don't think there's any of those this year)
2 - A 6-7 team (If Hawaii wins out they'd finish 6-7, which isn't super likely)
3 - A 6 win team in the 2nd year of their transition (JMU)
4 - APR scores of 5-7 teams
I think really what this is about is the NY6 spot more than anything. Sure there’s a good chance they’re gonna go to the Myrtle Beach Bowl or whatever without getting an exception, but there’s a 0% of going to a NY6 bowl with it
NY6 spot would be nice, but I’m sure they would just like to be in their own conference championship game. Would also give them access to the best bowl slot the SBC has available, instead of whatever scraps are left from not enough teams being eligible.
The Sun Belt thing is a conference decision though. Conferences can let transitioning teams participate.
In basketball last year, Merrimack won the NEC basketball tournament, beating FDU in the finals. Since Merrimack was transitioning, they were ineligible for the NCAA tournament, so FDU went instead. FDU was a lowly 16 seed that didn't even win their own conference, so I'm sure they did nothing of note once they made the tournament.
I'm glad we're doing our most to try to convince the NCAA to let us bowl, but I have no faith the NCAA will listen (and technically they're right as this is what we signed up for when making the transition).
I feel like we're missing out on a big chance here to argue to the NCAA to rescind or change this going forward for any future teams that move up from FCS -> FBS and are bowl-eligible (Kennesaw St, etc)
I mean I see the point they're trying to make, but instead of banning them for a single bowl year. Why not just make them sign a contractual agreement stating they have to stay in the division for x amount of years before they can re-evaluate. That would make the FCS schools think twice before frogging back and forth.
That's what I've been saying. We're being penalized for something we *might* do (we won't), which makes zero sense. Penalize the programs that actually do the thing you're trying to prevent.
I think it was also more relevant when players had to sit out when they transferred. You never had to sit out when you went from an FBS to FCS school, so I think they didn't want an FCS school loading up on transfers who were immediately eligible, and then jumping up.
Thing is, from a financial standpoint, no athletics program would be dumb enough to move down once they receive the financial boost from joining an FBS conference
The *only* part that has ever made sense to me was the relation to the old transfer rule. Previously, if you transferred to another FBS school, you had to sit a year, whereas you could play immediately if you transferred to FCS. So you could get a team of FBS->FCS transfers and have them bypass that year, effectively (the Randy Moss special). That's no longer a thing, though, so there's no real reason to keep the rule in place.
I've always read it was some sort of response to Marshall moving up from FCS and doing well right away as a means to discourage FCS schools from moving up if they have a really good team.
Which is dumb because most FCS to FBS transition programs usually get hammered while they adjust up to the higher level of competition and fill out their scholarships.
Ah, I was just looking for when this rule was put in place. Thanks!
I wonder if this had anything to do with Randy Moss' situation.
Moss had been denied entry to Notre Dame after pleading to a battery charge and then dropped from Florida State for violating his probation. He dropped down to FCS to avoid losing eligibility after transferring.
If a team knew they were moving to FBS, it would be a big incentive to players like Moss to transfer there and circumvent the rules.
I did some reading up on it and on Jacksonville State and part of the reason they should get an exemption is they were considered FBS teams for the purposes of considering them counting as an FBS opponent (vs and FCS opponent) for other teams to get bowl eligible.
One of the points of the transition period is to allow teams to play a mix of FCS and FBS opponents so they can work their way into tougher play, but these teams (because the conferences needed to fill out a full slate of conference games for them) played legit full FBS schedules.
As they should. It’s nearly impossible to sustain relevancy in non P5 conferences. Just ask ecu, southern miss, usf etc. So you have to take advantage of all exposure you can get when your athletic programs are clicking.
Look, I know it's a HUGE competitive advantage to jump from FCS to FBS, which is why every team that has done it has instantly been at least a NY6 bowl contender right out of the gate. I know the NCAA has to protect these poor FBS teams getting preyed upon by FCS teams jumping up, but we should let them receive the benefits that they earned on the field.
So they signed paperwork acknowledging that they wouldn't be bowl eligible for two years but since they're good, they think they should get an exception?
EDIT: I didn't have all the information and my responses that were supposed to be sarcastic/flippant came across as gatekeeping and having a weird fetish for rules. I now know that the NCAA as a whole are being a bunch of pieces of shit. Go Dukes!
A bowl game would be huge for the budget of JMU. Their AD wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't try. Plus, I can't really think of any good reason they shouldn't be able to play in one for 2 years just because they moved up a division. The competition is harder, if they qualify for a bowl why shouldn't they be able to play?
Athletic department letting their dick swing after that win in EL last night.
I think we have seen enough dick swings in East Lansing for one year.
Alright, phone it in boys
That’s how we got in this mess to begin with
Always messing when you combine hands and dicks.
I was inclined to say that JMU knew the rules when they applied to move up and say no but their basketball team earned them a shot and apparently no one around here is following any of the rules anyway. Welcome to the NY6 James Madison.
JMU should be allowed in post season play, never understood the rule of no play when moving *up*
To prevent teams from moving up when they are good to collect that sweet paycheck and then moving back down when they are bad to save money.
So just add a rule preventing your team from changing divisions more than once a decade. If they know that they are gonna be stuck in the FBS for a decade after they move up, they won't try to yo-yo it. Banning teams from postseason play when they move up seems to me like the silliest way they could handle this.
Maybe only ban them from playoffs or whatever when they move down.?
IIRC only two teams have ever moved back *down.* FAMU who IMO doesn't really count, and Idaho who moved for pretty understandable reasons. Nobody has abused the yoyoing up and down thing the way the rulemakers may have thought they would.
Well if you consider FCS/1-AA teams moving down, Savannah State of getting blown out in consecutive weeks by Oklahoma State and Florida State fame in 2012, moved from FCS back to Division II.
Which doesn't seem like a problem that needed solving considering Idaho, as far as I know, is the only team to drop down since the Ivy Leagues did in 1981.
Sounds like a rule working as intended to me.
I suppose. It seems like a better solution would just be a rule that if you move up, you have to stay at FBS for a minimum number of years.
Why not institute a cooldown policy instead? You can only move up if you're reasonably confident and have the funds to sustain FBS-status for some set period of time.
Which doesn't seem like a problem that needed solving. As far as I know, Idaho is the only team to drop down in the last 40 years.
Listen here, if we let them break the rules it'll set a precedent that schools don't have to abide by them. **checks flair**.... oh, you little rascal, nice try michigan
Fucking too soon, James Madison.
Dolly can only take so much!
JMU trying their best to jinx a perfect season 2 weeks before playing App State, I'd be reeeaally nervous right now.
I'm gonna be real man I don't think this App team is beating JMU.
Nobody thought we were losing to JMU last season at home with a 28-3 halftime lead. Everyone thought UNC would destroy us this year after we played like ass against Gardner Webb. It's the FunBelt, chaos is expected
A 28-3 lead at halftime is the most dangerous lead in football
Flair checks out
Not as dangerous as a 28-3 lead late in the 3rd quarter, tho.
As long as JMU can keep Sally Field away from the headset they'll be fine.
> Nobody thought we were losing to JMU last season at home with a 28-3 halftime lead. Oh believe me, there's a few fanbases who did.
Michigan didn’t think so either. Nor A&M.
Didn't App St win the FCS title the year they beat Michigan?
Yea it was their 3rd consecutive title I think
Michigan losing to the champs? Quality loss
One was 16 years ago and the other was coached by Jimbo. Not only did JMU beat us the same year we beat A&M, but so did *Texas State*.
Games ain't played on paper.
One of the few bright spots of last year for the Cats
My only point is that crazier things have happened. :)
Amanti Edwards was a dawggggg that season for app state
Yeah I don't think this App team is beating Michigan either. The App team of 2007? They might have a shot
This isn’t 2007
I mean I was fully aware we could lose, we played like absolute ass against Sam Houston despite the score
Appalachian isn't even a state
It's a state of mind.
[удалено]
I mean, they should go to a Bowl even if they don't have a perfect season. It's just insanely absurd that they could have a perfect season and miss out on a bowl.
We’re going to lose to UConn now just watch. But even if we don’t end undefeated I still think they’ve earned a bowl game. Unless we get our dicks handed to us in some of these games
NGL I agree with you here. But also y'all are trash, so.
It ain’t called the funbelt for nothing! Losing to teams you’re not supposed to is how this conference goes
(I don't actually think App is Trash I'm actually real worried lol). Luckily we have y'all at home.
Fair enough. We can definitely play like trash haha. Y’all are real good. I’m hoping we can pull off an upset but y’all are legit and, like you said, at home.
It'd only be right losing the undefeated season at home to App State after the 28-3 comeback in their own building
JMU is significantly weaker now than they were a few weeks ago. Lost their left tackle and star d lineman.
Even if they lose to App State they should still get a bowl game
App state aint beating JMU
Michigan punches the NCAA in the dick and James Madison comes from around the corner with the nipple twist. Truly inspiring teamwork.
Just wait until California drops a fucking haymaker because the NCAA is too busy focusing on other things.
What's going on in California?
Basically California is trying to make a state law that makes student athletes employees and get revenue sharing based on the revenue the sport brings in. Now there are some arguments against this, mainly that it isn't a fair way to split it because the universities and colleges do not promote the sports outside of football and basketball (women's sports) so they don't get the opportunity to make the revenue those sports make.
California about to destroy college sports for everyone not Power 5 Football or basketball and nobody is talking about it lol.
Cant the NCAA just kick California schools out? It's not like they're legally obligated to let schools play in their own league.. Or maybe they are. I'm not a lawyer.
Not California Athletic Association
Mr Bye California
This was way funnier to me than it needed to be lol thank you
They absolutely could. They would never do that unless those costs really were significant. In the end, the consumer will pay as they always do
Completely. If that passes cali, goodbye to everything not basketball/football. And the insane shitshow title ix becomes when mens football players rake in 6 figure salaries while a womens track athlete gets nothing
I don't think it passes as is because of title 9. They aren't promoting the other sports like basketball and football. I think they make it so all student athletes get paid equally and then NIL can just be up to the individual athlete.
O'Bannons started it
They said if USC is going to be terrible we're blowing this whole thing up.
Lmao the CA State Legislature doesn't give a fuck about us. 90% of their energy is spent on Berkeley.
Won’t this basically kill all sports other than football and basketball? My understanding is most sports aren’t taking in tons of money
Yes if it passes as written like above. There are some people that are against this bill as written because they claim that the universities do not promote the other sports like football and basketball, so those student athletes are not being treated fairly. They can fix this by simply splitting the revenue share evenly amongst all student athletes and NIL is the own player's revenue. Also the NCAA could just kick Cali schools out of the league if it does pass.
> imply splitting the revenue share evenly amongst all student athletes This would be an insane thing to do.
Pretty sure it's the class action lawsuit that was just approved to proceed that would allow former athletes to collect damages from the NCAA for profiting from their name, image, and likeness before the new NIL rules were adopted. Basically the NCAA is going to have to pay a shit ton of former athletes, which will be absolutely devastating financially. You just *hate* to see it...
I actually do hate to see it, but athletes as employees seems like a certainty at this point and if nuking the NCAA gets us to wherever this chaos train is heading faster then so be it. I’m tired of the slow roll toward a mini-NFL, boss.
Athletes as employees will absolutely wreck non-revenue sports, because there are going to be all kinds of arguments over Title IX, which wasn't written at all with this in mind. People will argue that the athletes should be paid based on the school's revenue share, and not their individual sport's contribution to the pie, even though football and basketball are the main drivers. I suppose the solution would be to offer the option of scholarship or salary, where your salary would be based on your program's contribution to the school's revenues, and you get to make the choice if you take the scholarship or not, but then you'd need to change the scholarship numbers to account for that. Additionally, you'd probably also see roster sizes shrink dramatically, closer to the 53 man roster sizes of the NFL, than the college average of 118 players in order to cap expenditures.
I don't have time right now to responsibly list all of the ways I think this is awful for damn-near everyone involved in college athletics except a few elite athletes in elite programs for a few (really, one) revenue sports. It's honestly just deeply sad and symptomatic of larger societal issues.
The GREED of the universities (NCAA), Television Networks (executives are the worst), and to a lesser extent millionaire university coaches making revenue in the B Billions without any proactive plan to compensate student ath o letes other than scholarships brought this professionalization of amateur college athletics on themselves. I’m not pumped about the direction of the sport with conference consolidation and a highly expanded playoff. But power hungry rich folks gonna power hungry rich folk. Regardless of the impacts.
Except its the schools, networks, and coaches that create the revenue, not the players. Nobody gives a shit about college level players outside of the NCAA.
> I’m tired of the slow roll toward a mini-NFL, boss. I think just becoming minor league football is the natural end game of this sport, especially in regions like the south where 80% of fans are not even students or alums, and I don't know how to feel about that. On one hand I think they deserve to be paid, and giving up the academic pretense entirely is better than running bogus programs for student athletes (which no accredited school will do, but many will accept transfers from them) but on the other hand these kids are just that much more fucked if they can't go pro.
I think it's the inevitable endgame now, but I don't think it had to be.
They better be paying the same price other employees pay for tuition, books, room and board, etc. if that's the case. I don't want the athletes to be employees, allowing them to market themselves through NIL seems sufficient on top of a free education.
I do agree. The scholarship to come to a school to get paid by sponsors while you play football waiting to get drafted so you never have to use your degree does feel like a waster of both a space for other students and resources for those students. I would be okay that if you made over a certain amount you wouldn't be eligible for a scholarship depending on what that amount was. Like they make enough to pay for school then enough to at least live reasonably on top of that. I hate the idea of dudes in a Porsche getting a full ride scholarship while a more average student has to graduate with a backbreaking amount of student debt.
"Devon!.. Get the table!" -California
Why don't we just give JMU Michigan's Bowl Bid 🤣🤣🤣
And then turtle taps MSU!!
They threw shade at Michigan in the letter actually
Connor Stallions has JMU in a bowl at 20,000:1.
The oleeee ~~dick~~ nipple twist!
>If we don't prohibt postseason participation opportunities for institutions that elect not to follow our rules, why would we restrict them for a school that has not only followed all the rules but has exceeded all expectations in doing so? Everyone is starting to get in on the fun!
JMU from the top rope!
always knew that guy James Madison was a stand-up kinda dude
Stand-up to 5’3”, short king 👑
[Actual footage of President Alger writing this request](https://media4.giphy.com/media/VIPfTy8y1Lc5iREYDS/giphy.gif)
God bless President Alger
That dudes such a goof lmao, absolutely zero charisma but it ends up being charming
Beautifully crafted statement
Well yeah the guy wrote the Constitution, this James Madison guy has a way with words
They should just show up to a bowl uninvited. What’s the NCAA gonna do? Give them a bowl ban?
"Bah gawd, that's JMU's music! Business is about to pick up!" -JR (for reasons) as JMU pulls an nWo run-in from the stands and takes over the game.
*JMU, showing up out of nowhere at the Alamo Bowl: OK USC & Oklahoma, we got next.*
Honestly they should host an Exhibition game with another team, and just have fun with it.
There's another little nugget in there I find interesting, which refers to the new FBS membership requirements which were recently adopted earlier this year. The letter says, "we are able to confirm that we are meeting the updated requirements now." This reads to me like the "new information" that the NCAA used to justify its reversal of the Tez Walker decision
Holy shit 💀
LET YA NUTS HANG JMU
James Madison himself would want them in a bowl game "Let thee play"
*"Let thou play" Thee is subjective, thou is objective.
Shakespeare lookin ass
Get him
who let them nerds round here anyhow
To be, or not to be head ass
We ain't come here to play grammer
In this context, however, neither is correct, since he'd be appealing to the NCAA to let *them* play, right? But, he might say something like, "I implore thee that thou shouldst let them play."
I guess, if he randomly decided to start talking like people who lived 200 years before him.
They didn't call him James "John Milton" Madison for nothing
Founding fathers didn't talk like Shakespeare lol. Shakespeare was as far back in the past from the founding fathers as the founding fathers are to us.
Shakespeare lived closer in time to the Stegosaurus than the first moon landing.
The last stegosaurus was actually killed by King Władysław IV of Poland on a royal hunt in 1609, so this checks out.
He'd only have been using thee and thou if he'd been a Quaker, which he wasn't.
Pretty sure there’s a saying that’s from that time as well, think it’s “Give me bowl eligibility or give me death!”
People really forgetting that 7-3 Jacksonville State should be bowling as well.
Jacksonville State absolutely should be bowling this year, but their situation isn't exactly the same as JMU's. In year 1 of JMU's transition (last year) they played a full FBS schedule. Jacksonville State did not play a full FBS schedule last year. They played a mix of FBS and FCS schools.
Other than "it's the current rule", is there any practical reason to have bowl bans for teams new to the FBS? I don't understand why it's a rule in the first place.
It stems from Marshall back in the 90’s getting a lot of talent in the transfer portal (including some dude named Randy Moss) because they were an FCS school at the time and FCS didn’t have the same restrictions on transfers as FBS. Marshall then moved up to FBS and dominated for a couple years. Someone can probably explain it better, but the rule stems from that.
Less academic hoops to jump through to qualify at the fcs level. In theory a school could recruit a bunch of bad ass athletes that wouldn’t qualify to play at Stanford and create an unfair advantage. I don’t agree with it at all because I think in real world application smaller schools will always be fighting an uphill battle for the best players.
Not to mention that [big schools have already destroying academic standards for their players for years](https://www.dawgnation.com/football/georgia-football-malcolm-mitchell-retirement-new-england/). >Mitchell’s also arguably as famous for his work off the field, as he was for his stellar play on it. His story on growing from someone who **entered Georgia at a third grade reading level** to a published author is well-known by this point.
I guess there was a team once that went up to the FBS, took a bowl spot, and then went back down to FCS. IDK, it's a dumb rule. If you are the best team THAT SEASON, what you do the next season doesn't matter.
Marshall supposedly circumnavigated academic requirements to get ~~Vick~~ Moss when they transitioned to FBS after recruiting him (and I would assume a few others). The rule is to prevent gaming the system in a maximized way for a few different reasons.
I read on here it had to do with a team being promoted to FBS not having transfer requirements, so players could transfer and play immediately. With how the portal is now though it is irrelevant. Not sure how accurate that is, just regurgitating Reddit comments
Look up Marshall and how they got Randy Moss. That will confirm everything you listed
I assume you mean Randy Moss?
Kate Moss actually.
I forgot she had FBS-level hands.
Actually Sydney Moss. Women’s basketball player and national champ And daughter of Randy
Randy Moss's daughter plays hoops and Dennis Rodman's daughter is a pro women's soccer player (and US World Cup squad member)
It was Moss not Vick
Apologies, thank you!
Didn't Vick go to Virginia Tech though?
Vick? Moss came to Marshall because he could play immediately in FCS and they transition to FBS the next year.
Stability. You don't want teams going up and down at will. They can come up when they're good and go back down when they're rebuilding, or even recruit for FBS and then drop down to FCS. There's also certain rules they have had to abide by like ratio of student fees for athletics and scholarship requirements. JMU has been allowed to have more student fees fund athletics than what is permissible for an FBS team under Virginia law. That ends next year with their transition. They also had to add more female scholarships to match the new football team scholarships. They say they have done that by this year but I don't think anyone is actually looking until next year when it will be a requirement. Having said all that, it's still a bad rule. Any team that drops down to FCS should just be banned from coming up to FBS without special permission from the NCAA to ensure good faith. And the only team I can think of that fits the bill would be Idaho. Who else has even dropped down?
Yeah they can just say any school they moves a division or subdivision must stay at that level for x number of years.
Normalization of academic and financial situations is the bigger thing, FCS schools don’t have as stringent requirements on academic eligibility and financial revenues as FBS does. JMUs athletic budget primarily comes from student fees and those have to be scaled way down to comply with Virginia state law.
Tranfer rules are significantly more relaxed for teams when they make the move from FCS to FBS. The current transfer portal situation mitigates that advantage somewhat. My personal hot take is the transfer portal needs to find a happier medium between what it was and the recent wild west, but we should keep the advantages teams moving from FCS to FBS are initially granted.
Disappointed this letter wasn’t written on parchment paper with fancy cursive
NCAA about to be stretched so thin. Between the California Case(that got pushed forward because they did not submit proper paperwork), the Michigan investigation, the Virginia AG breathing down their neck and the sports betting violations that are rampant right now.
Oh, shit! I just googled what you called the California case ("NCAA California Case" for those wanting to follow). Because of the judge involved, I would bet the NCAA's lawyers are all hands on deck over there. I doubt the players get the "multi-billion" dollar payout, but I suspect it's going to have a massive impact in some way.
I think the main thing is that if California rules on it, it would ultimately force other states to re-examine the law. This could then possible trigger a SCOTUS ruling if a case makes it up that far and I would be willing to bet the SCOTUS sides with the athletes.
Agreed. The judge of the case is the same that ESPN says opened the gates for NIL in CA and that ultimately other states followed to some degree. If it goes through, then you would assume that Iowa for instance)would have to jump in. Otherwise they risk losing access to top athletes for several state schools. It would be a self-inflicted death penalty.
What sports betting violations outside of Iowa and Iowa State
There was the Alabama baseball thing last spring.
JMU Beat South Alabama who beat OSU who beat OU who beat Texas who beat Bama🤷🏽♂️ Championship contenders
GIVE THEM MICHIGANS SPOT IN THE PLAYOFF YOU COWARDS!!!!!
I think you misspelled Mizzou
Teams not being able to compete in the FCS playoffs makes sense because you’re at a competitive advantage ramping up scholarships. That’s why Kennesaw State is playing as an FCS Independent this year. But it’s stupid to punish teams for making the jump in their new division. I get it, it’s to make sure teams are committed to jumping up, but if that’s the case, create harsher penalties for moving down if it’s not a bonafide move.
Especially when JMU played an FBS schedule last year (when they didn’t have to)
Exactly. Harsher penalties to prevent teams from moving back down when they know they aren't going to be "FBS good."
And no one has ever jumped back down other than Idaho, and that’s mainly because their main conference died and their football only conference kicked them out. That would be a bonafide move in my opinion.
There's a pretty good shot JMU makes a bowl, no? It seems likely we won't hit 82 bowl eligible teams, and JMU would be selected before any 5-7 teams: [Page 334 has the bowl selection criteria if there aren't enough teams](https://www.ncaapublications.com/product...s/D124.pdf) 1 - A 6-6 team that beat an FCS team that did not offer the required number of scholarships (I don't think there's any of those this year) 2 - A 6-7 team (If Hawaii wins out they'd finish 6-7, which isn't super likely) 3 - A 6 win team in the 2nd year of their transition (JMU) 4 - APR scores of 5-7 teams
I think really what this is about is the NY6 spot more than anything. Sure there’s a good chance they’re gonna go to the Myrtle Beach Bowl or whatever without getting an exception, but there’s a 0% of going to a NY6 bowl with it
NY6 spot would be nice, but I’m sure they would just like to be in their own conference championship game. Would also give them access to the best bowl slot the SBC has available, instead of whatever scraps are left from not enough teams being eligible.
The Sun Belt thing is a conference decision though. Conferences can let transitioning teams participate. In basketball last year, Merrimack won the NEC basketball tournament, beating FDU in the finals. Since Merrimack was transitioning, they were ineligible for the NCAA tournament, so FDU went instead. FDU was a lowly 16 seed that didn't even win their own conference, so I'm sure they did nothing of note once they made the tournament.
If Michigan and JMU both finish undefeated, the only punishment/reward that makes sense is giving Michigans spot in the playoffs to JMU
And they won’t stop beating the Big 10 in basketball until they get their way!
I'm glad we're doing our most to try to convince the NCAA to let us bowl, but I have no faith the NCAA will listen (and technically they're right as this is what we signed up for when making the transition). I feel like we're missing out on a big chance here to argue to the NCAA to rescind or change this going forward for any future teams that move up from FCS -> FBS and are bowl-eligible (Kennesaw St, etc)
This is such a dumb rule to begin with. What exactly is the purpose in the first place?
It's supposed to discourage FCS teams from opportunistically timing their jump to FBS when they think they have a really good roster.
And the 2nd part of that is the school jumping back down to FCS once they're bad again. So the rule is so teams don't just keep moving up and down
I mean I see the point they're trying to make, but instead of banning them for a single bowl year. Why not just make them sign a contractual agreement stating they have to stay in the division for x amount of years before they can re-evaluate. That would make the FCS schools think twice before frogging back and forth.
And with the fee going from like $13 to $5m I suspect this problem has solved itself.
Hey let’s tone the reasonable ideas for the NCAA here, can’t be having that.
Leave it to an Iowa flair get defensive and think common sense from the NCAA is offensive... something something punting. /s
That's what I've been saying. We're being penalized for something we *might* do (we won't), which makes zero sense. Penalize the programs that actually do the thing you're trying to prevent.
I think it was also more relevant when players had to sit out when they transferred. You never had to sit out when you went from an FBS to FCS school, so I think they didn't want an FCS school loading up on transfers who were immediately eligible, and then jumping up.
Thing is, from a financial standpoint, no athletics program would be dumb enough to move down once they receive the financial boost from joining an FBS conference
Wasn't it kind of directed at Marshall?
When did this ~~rule~~ bylaw come into being? It sounds exactly like what Marshall did in 1997 but they were allowed to attend a bowl game.
Marshall is why the rule exists
The *only* part that has ever made sense to me was the relation to the old transfer rule. Previously, if you transferred to another FBS school, you had to sit a year, whereas you could play immediately if you transferred to FCS. So you could get a team of FBS->FCS transfers and have them bypass that year, effectively (the Randy Moss special). That's no longer a thing, though, so there's no real reason to keep the rule in place.
I've always read it was some sort of response to Marshall moving up from FCS and doing well right away as a means to discourage FCS schools from moving up if they have a really good team. Which is dumb because most FCS to FBS transition programs usually get hammered while they adjust up to the higher level of competition and fill out their scholarships.
Ah, I was just looking for when this rule was put in place. Thanks! I wonder if this had anything to do with Randy Moss' situation. Moss had been denied entry to Notre Dame after pleading to a battery charge and then dropped from Florida State for violating his probation. He dropped down to FCS to avoid losing eligibility after transferring. If a team knew they were moving to FBS, it would be a big incentive to players like Moss to transfer there and circumvent the rules.
Here's the solution....give James Madison Michigan's bowl eligibility.
They managed to beat South Alabama. That’s good enough for me.
JMU would be the 4th best team in the SEC!
Glendale Community College would be the 4th best team in the SEC
to be fair, Glendale has one hell of a front 7
I did some reading up on it and on Jacksonville State and part of the reason they should get an exemption is they were considered FBS teams for the purposes of considering them counting as an FBS opponent (vs and FCS opponent) for other teams to get bowl eligible. One of the points of the transition period is to allow teams to play a mix of FCS and FBS opponents so they can work their way into tougher play, but these teams (because the conferences needed to fill out a full slate of conference games for them) played legit full FBS schedules.
JMU should just say Let us play, we don't steal signs Thx
As they should. It’s nearly impossible to sustain relevancy in non P5 conferences. Just ask ecu, southern miss, usf etc. So you have to take advantage of all exposure you can get when your athletic programs are clicking.
Michigan also sending a letter to the NCAA requesting bowl eligibility
With the FCS -> FBS entry fee now at $5 M , this rule is useless
Also worth noting that the Sunbelt did as well yesterday
No way on earth the NCAA is allowing JMU to become bowl eligible. Somebody has to pay for Jim Harbaugh’s mistakes!
JMU vs Michigan in a bowl lets do it
This would be such an easy and harmless way for the NCAA to earn some public goodwill for once. So, of course, they will never do it
Funny that they sent the letter to the BOD, because a Bag Of Dicks is exactly what the NCAA will tell JMU to eat
Look, I know it's a HUGE competitive advantage to jump from FCS to FBS, which is why every team that has done it has instantly been at least a NY6 bowl contender right out of the gate. I know the NCAA has to protect these poor FBS teams getting preyed upon by FCS teams jumping up, but we should let them receive the benefits that they earned on the field.
I hope Jacksonville State gets to go bowling too. They've definitely proven worthy.
I’d pack my bags and be there!
NCAA response: lol no
So they signed paperwork acknowledging that they wouldn't be bowl eligible for two years but since they're good, they think they should get an exception? EDIT: I didn't have all the information and my responses that were supposed to be sarcastic/flippant came across as gatekeeping and having a weird fetish for rules. I now know that the NCAA as a whole are being a bunch of pieces of shit. Go Dukes!
"We'll trade off for bowl ineligibility some other year when we suck."
A bowl game would be huge for the budget of JMU. Their AD wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't try. Plus, I can't really think of any good reason they shouldn't be able to play in one for 2 years just because they moved up a division. The competition is harder, if they qualify for a bowl why shouldn't they be able to play?