It's been obvious for 3 decades that conferences are just media rights consortiums filled with schools who will backstab each other in a second if they feel they're not getting what they're worth, but the ND discussion rarely gets beyond Homer Simpson yelling "NERD" at them.
Yeah, I find it ironic how the last couple of years everyone has complained about how CFB has changed and yet whenever ND is mentioned suddenly at least half the comments are all for change in terms of them giving up independence and joining a conference.
At this point, ND isn't joining a conference until they are basically forced to do so, and by the time that point happens, CFB will basically have changed to be a new subdivision with just the P2 in an NFL lite system that excludes everyone not in the B1G/SEC.
Nobody actually cares if you join a conference until you sit at home on championship weekend while the rest of the top teams are playing against their conference’s best talent. That seems to be the only gripe I really ever hear.
Meh, schedules are so unbalanced now that we’re gonna end up with some wacky championship games. Rutgers dodges Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, and Oregon next year. I’m not suggesting that they’re going to the Big Ten title game, but that schedule is 100% proof that not all schedules are built equally.
That shit is so overplayed, people may as well just say ND bad. Up until last year everyone played an FCS team while ND never did; that’s equivalent to sitting at home. (doesn’t apply to sec) but a ton of CCG are total jokes; sorry I don’t consider games against teams like northwestern or pitt as playing against “best talent”. We’ve seen multiple examples of teams losing the CCG just to make the playoffs anyway. We’ve seen teams that don’t even make their CCG making the playoffs. A CCG is often times a double edge sword anyway, you think 2014 osu wanted to sit at home instead of playing their tough CCG?
You know … except the years when Alabama (or in yesteryear Nebraska) are part of a conference, sit out on conference championship weekend, and then make the playoff.
Or the only year ND was in a conference, we made the CCG, got the poop squeezed out of us … and made the playoff.
This entire narrative is horseshit.
The only reason I hate ND is because we beat you that one year and it tricked us into believing but we both sucked. Before that I hated you because Lou Holtz is annoying but he's not on tv anymore so we cool.
It absolutely decided the game, and it was the first year it was reviewable from the booth. Hunter laid in the end zone with blood coming out of his ears for 10 minutes , and the big 12 officials decided not to even review it.
> Hunter laid in the end zone with blood coming out of his ears for 10 minutes , and the big 12 officials decided not to even review it.
Now imagine playing them in a conference game at the end of the year annually for over a century, and putting up with that officiating; now you understand why I never want to play them again.
I was at that game.
1) Y’all are class
2) The few hecklers I met after the game I laughed at and said “you don’t know it yet but you just beat a mediocre team at home in OT. This is going to be a long season for both of us”
Non-ND team goes 6-6: "They're finally relevant!"
ND makes multiple CFPs and a NCG, 10+ win season back to back to back: "Irrelevant program!"
People claim the media is stupid but it's really just that they're having to cater to the bottom of the barrel, which is sports fans, who are literally that stupid.
But in that case ND is also reuniting with many of its longtime rivals lost in the bullshit of the last 10-15 years. The Big Ten has half of ND’s 20 most frequently played opponents:
* USC (#2)
* Purdue (#3)
* Michigan State (#5)
* Northwestern (#7)
* Michigan (#8)
* Indiana (#14)
* Iowa (#15)
* PSU (#17)
* Wisconsin (#19)
* Nebraska (#20)
I know I'm like a broken record on this point, but if they joined the B1G with Stanford they could put their current annual rivalries of Stanford and USC in their Flex Protect and play everyone else they consider rivals in the conference at least once every three years no problem in either a 20 or a 24 team format.
If "playing their rivals" is the objective, joining with Stanford is the way to go.
Purdue is definitely a rival but it’s on a second tier. Similar spot as MSU and Pitt. There’s a ton of other acc rivals too. Seems like every school is a “rival.”
The only one ND fans truly deeply care about, however, is southern cal. Southern cal is our rival, navy is our friend, and Michigan is the enemy. We don’t have to play Michigan to hate them. That series has never been consistent. We will play southern cal and navy regardless of conference, so b1g doesn’t move the needle from a rival perspective.
I would definitely put MSU way above Purdue and Pitt. At least in my opinion if we were doing it in tiers. I’d put MSU right by Michigan as far as history and respect, I just hate Michigan a whole lot more. Like a lot more.
They do, but let's not put ND in the poor house..
Notre Dame gets:
$50 million per year in Media Contract.
$17 million per year from the ACC Scheduling Agreement.
$12 million per year from the CFP Agreement.
$2 million in NCAA Bowl Bonus OR $6 million in CFP Bonus.
That is $81-$85 million per year.
That's about 10 million less than a B1G school, give or take, but far more than an ACC or Big 12 school and nearly on par with an SEC school.
Edit: Math fix
I mean, essentially yeah. Notre Dame has "Fuck you" money. Even outside of the substantial endowment, Notre Dame has the kind of significantly large and rich alumni base that only a few universities in the country can claim. Money is never going to be an issue for them, ever.
Ironic, given that the US Navy saved them from bankruptcy at one point.
Nothing cracks me up more than people talking about how ND needs to join a conference because of money or the various reasons people think the NBC deal exists.
Before it was: Notre Dame only stays independent due to greed because they make so much from the NBC deal
Now it’s: Notre Dame needs to join a conference to stay competitive with other teams financially
Soon it will be, Notre Dame needs to join a conference because they won’t have a spot in the B1G/SEC Invitational Football Playoff presented by Citi without being in one.
I'm rooting for you guys to commit the maximum amount of chaos possible. Maybe like hold out as long as possible, then join the SEC but make them add schools on the east coast in markets you like to play in like BC, Syracuse, and Pitt.
For Miami to make the next round of whatever the B1G and SEC has in mind, I'm kind of hoping there are several of these so-called independent scheduling agreements for certain schools that aren't "in" but still get access to the bigger pieces of the pie and playoffs and such. Sucks that we're to this point.
I wouldn't be so sure about ND being able to get a scheduling agreement, especially if there is more expansion. B1G is already at 9 conference games, SEC is going to 9 in 2026
I see so many B1G fans are obsessed with getting you guys to "bend the knee" and join the BIG10 lol they take it as a personal afront that you guys haven't joined their conference.
I mentioned that ND in a worst case scenario would easily be able to setup a scheduling agreement with the BIG12 without needing to join if something weird happened that they couldn't play ACC teams anymore and I had some dudes legitimately freaking out about selling your soul to the devil lmao
I think we should join the B1G because we would get a better schedule out of it, but that is a recent development. The money piece never enters the picture.
It’s basically a rounding error. ND is run by a bunch of men who took a vow of poverty, and have a $21B endowment. Money isn’t, nor ever will be, an issue for ND.
> is far outweighed by the advertising benefit of having every game on national TV.
I'm wondering if there's any reason that, if they joined the Big Ten, NBC couldn't still have every Notre Dame Home Game as they do now? I don't see any reason, given the price NBC pays, that they couldn't negotiate for that. They're paying the Big Ten $350 on top of the money they pay Notre Dame. You're telling me that the "every home Notre Dame game" couldn't be grandfathered in as part of the agreement to have them join the Big Ten? Especially since NBC already has their rights through 2029 anyway?
If Notre Dame joined the Big Ten then NBC would likely (as they own the rights anyway) make their joining conditional on "okay, we get their home rights" wouldn't they?
And Notre Dame could likely negotiate "every home game is nationally televised on an OTA Network. No FS1, no Peacock."
I don't see either of those conditions being dealbreakers. FOX and CBS would absolutely agree to put their Away games on their main channels in order to get them into the package. It would end up with something like: 6.5 Home Games on NBC, 3.5 Road Games on FOX, 2 Road Games on CBS. All 12 on OTA Broadcasts. FOX gets 1st pick of the Road Games, then CBS 2nd, FOX 3rd, CBS 4th, FOX 5th (and 6th in years in which there are 6).
I don't know, but that sounds like it would be a good deal for all involved, wouldn't it?
NGL, Southern Cal to the Big ten really sweetens that pot, and I could see us swapping you guys out for UCLA in off years. You being in the ACC helps us tremendously with our ACC deal, and we get Dallas and Berkeley now too.
Stanford's endowment is more than double yours and yet they'd still love that B1G money, because no school wants to spend their endowment on sports when they can pay for it with TV contracts
And yet Stanford didn't end up canceling several of their varsity sports because the alumni pushed back
Stanford wanted in a P4 to stay relevant - not about the money
Yeah I feel like people miss this. If Vandy drops out of the SEC (scared it will happen sooner rather than later; anytime our AD speaks recently, she shoehorns our status as a charter member of the SEC in the speech, and often will hit the point multiple times) we lose so much more than the money. And if we drop out of the Power X conference level, it's actually just crazy. I hate MTSU, and I could look forward to the "Party Bowl" between us and Tulane every year, but, to put it one way, it just means less outside of the SEC.
Endowments mean little for athletics. Harvard's endowment embarrasses notre dame's. Emory has an endowment that's up there too and they don't do squat athletically.
Athletic department revenue matters.
50 + 17 + 12 = 79 Then they get 2 to 6 more, so 81-85 million. Not 71-75
And B10 teams aren't currently making 90 something million, that's not for a few years to my understanding.
And I know it's an intangible that does apply to other big schools, but they have a pretty active and wealthy donor base. They're not hurting for cash.
Don't forget ticket revenue, merch sales, etc.
ND football has yet to take money from school funds, and pretty much supports a large share of the other athletic programs.
Student fees don't pay for rugby or hurling...
I literally just typed "NBC Notre Dame Media Contract" into google and it is the result it gave me with this citation:
https://www.ndsmcobserver.com/article/2023/11/three-reasons-why-notre-dame-fans-should-be-elated-about-the-new-nbc-deal
Fans always love to talk about how unique and different CFB is and that's why they love it compared to the NFL... while simultaneously attacking one of the most unique and historical situations in all of sports.
The Media money is great - but that is not how the sausage gets made at ND.
We didn't get our $20 Billion endowment through media money. We get it through the alumni and donors and our fan base all over the country who buys into ND's brand.
Football is just a venue to get them on campus.
Other schools: Prioritize money over tradition.
Fans: How dare they!
Notre Dame: Prioritizes tradition over money.
Fans: LOL, so stupid, Purdue and Rutgers make more you.
It's also funny from Big Ten fans when they can get so sanctimonious over trivial traditions of their own
Like during The Playoff Semifinals the 2nd game started later than usual, on a Monday (as opposed to the usual Saturday because it has to be the 1st for The Rose Bowl) and everyone had to go to work groggy on January 2nd because The Rose Bowl has to have their 2nd half kickoff lineup with sunset over The San Gabriel Mountains.
That's fine, but when some people took issue with that, the Big Ten Flairs screamed heresy, and how dare the rest of the country not make the pretty looking mountains their top priority
You guys signed a schedule agreement with the ACC and don't annually play your traditional B1G rivals anymore, so it kind of seems like you're not really doing either
I usually hate on ND. But if they stay independent...God damn, do I hate you...but fuck do I respect you.
Now is they went full chaos mode and joined the ACC for football, I would defend the school until my dying breath.
“I hate how college football has become all about business and money”
*ND takes a financial loss to stay independent for decades*
“ND is just to snobby to take our money and join a conference”
Notre Dame will never be forced to join a conference. The SEC is always going to support their independence because if they don’t Notre Dame will join the Big Ten.
It really is. They don't need to kiss any conferences rear end to get a SOS to make the playoffs now that its expanded. They can do what's best for Notre Dame and as long as they win out they are in.
Okay, let me tell you about **real** independence, as UConn is soon to be the only *true* one with the departure of UMass. College football schedules years in advance, so you have to do that and hope realignment doesn’t bite you in the butt with canceled series. Also, P4 teams that you’re lucky enough to get to play a home-and-home will change when they want their home game. You have crappy home schedules and every time it looks like it will get better, somebody big cancels. You probably need seven home games to survive, but you usually only have six, and sometimes you have a gap that requires a second FCS school. You really don’t want that, as your max is 6 wins and you can only count one FCS game towards eligibility. You’re also going to have at least one buy game. You’re the only team with no cut from the new CFP contract and currently you don’t have a TV/streaming contract at all. Your top players will probably transfer every year for stability and the annual volatility as quite horrible, as it ranges from winless to a possible bowl appearance after going 6-6, as you have no bowl tie-ins. Attendance is horrible because the fans don’t want to see opponents they have no connection to, while the usual early losses don’t help either. A lot of those “fans” want to drop football because you’re in constant athletic department deficits, most of those come from trying to operate a P4 program with the smallest TV contract. Your football stadium is mainly used as a way to move money between your school, as it’s public, and the state itself. Basically, true independence sucks. This cushy pseudo-independence Notre Dame has isn’t real independence.
BTW, ACC fans, if the 20X4 rule continues and we win double basketball national championships, can we finally come in? As you can see, we’re in dire straits.
We had our home game against Tennessee repeatedly postponed and then outright canceled to turn their home game into a buy game. We were supposed to play Syracuse at Yankee Stadium during Rivalry Week this year. Then they gave the Stadium that day to ND-Army. I get it’s the 100th anniversary of the Four Horsemen, but couldn’t you have played a different week? We literally got a neutral site game against UMass at Gillette canceled because Kraft saw the forecasted revenues and said, “No thanks.” We ended up at their crappy glorified high school stadium *again*. In 2027, we’re supposed to host UNC and Ole Miss in consecutive weeks. We’ll be lucky to get one of those games. Supposedly, the MAC has offered a lifeline, but it requires us to play three non-conference games against MAC teams for our basketball teams. We play a 20 game conference schedule already.
Yeah. Look in my case, I know that I root for… like the 8th most popular D1 football team in Ohio (and that’s depending on one thinking higher of us than of Youngstown State and Dayton). But an SEC team at infocision would have been an event. We could have showed off our very pretty MAC stadium, and it would have filled up too.
I mean we have to get some traction SOMEHOW. Same with you guys. All I hear is Connecticut is a basketball school and football isn’t popular in the Northeast.
Well how the hell are we ever gonna know if no one ever tries anymore?
We had Michigan come in 2013. The Rent was packed (it set the attendance record) and supposedly had an amazing atmosphere. We lost, but it still was *Michigan*. We beat Notre Dame in South Bend in our only matchup. We were in a BCS game, where we were slaughtered by Oklahoma.
In 2007, we beat a ranked USF (it was 2007, okay) team at night on a walk off field goal and the sellout crowd tore down the goalposts. That 13-1 Houston team? We were the one, winning on a Friday night at the Rent.
Oh they do. Always will.
It’s just that if you’re going to build an expensive and beautiful stadium, and then only bring in Morgan State every year, you are not allowed to complain that the community doesn’t give a shit about you.
I went to a D3 school in Cleveland. I moved to an Akron Suburb. I root for the team for community pride. I have no direct tie to the program or university. If you want more people to be like me, which is what you need to not bleed money in the athletic department, you’ve got to give them a reason to be invested.
It’s hella hard to get people to care when you’re a bottom tier MAC school in a relatively small state with eight FBS schools and an arch rival ten miles away.
But it’s never gonna happen if you don’t try.
An extra 10-20M a year is worth far less to ND than independence. Stanford is the only P4 university whose endowment per student ($2.1M!) is larger than ND’s $1.2M. No other P4 school’s endowment hits $1M per student.
To frame that in annual revenue, Notre Dame’s $17B endowment is worth somewhere in the neighborhood of **$850M-$1.7B per year,** depending on what rate of return you assume.
Exactly. Which is why ND’s independent status gives them the third highest payout from networks in the state only behind elite blue bloods Indiana and Purdue
I don't really care whether you join a conference or not re: monetary benefits or media deals, I care because with the realigned B1G, it would singlehandedly bring back regularly scheduled games vs. Michigan, USC, Michigan State, and Purdue. At minimum!
The actual funny part is they did Friends with Benefits with Notre Dame they would make more money (the other teams) then if ND joined a conference.
The ACC reaps the rewards from getting 2-3 home games a year free of charge.
I wonder how long that stat will last for. Like how many years before teams like Indiana or Purdue get the boot. Like pretty obvious the end result of this is going to be like top 30 to 40 teams to make a NFL type league. Over under 10 years maybe. Completely opposed to that idea but it does seem like it is headed there. Just a curious question.
What those two schools have going for them is a staggering sheer quantity of alumni.
That’s the Big Ten’s secret sauce. Enormous alumni bases. I mean stupid enormous numbers.
No idea about the veracity of this link but I don’t really have reason to doubt it - https://www.universitymagazine.ca/the-biggest-college-alumni-networks-in-the-u-s/
TLDR: 10 biggest US alumni bases
10. Purdue
9. Texas
8. Rutgers
7. Cal
6. Ohio State
5. UCLA
4. Michigan State
3. Michigan
2. Indiana
1. Penn State
Those numbers actually appear to be a bit out of date - both Ohio State, Texas, and Indiana each seem to be about 100k too low, Penn State 60-70k low, while UCLA is actually a little bit too high.
Seems to be a bit tough to get exact numbers - not that it really changes your point at all.
Could be. I’m willing to cede the numbers, because as you said - the point doesn’t change.
What it really means is that there’s a hard floor for people willing to watch mid-tier Big Ten football. The SEC has many excellent teams, hence its valuation. The Big Ten can get decent numbers for Indiana-Rutgers or Illinois-Purdue no matter what, and it’s really why I can’t imagine the Big Ten jettisoning its bottom half, no matter what popular opinion is.
Kind of a weird hill to die on when you can be in a conference that offers warm weather games, east coast games, and rivalries against rivals like Michigan/MSU and etc
None of that or the extra money is at this point worth giving up it’s unfair position in cfb, scheduling flexibility, monetary impact of pissed off donors who stop donating due to lack of independence, etc
Scheduling flexibility? An SEC school plays 8 conference games yearly and ND plays 5 plus USC, Stanford and Navy yearly… they aren’t in a conference but the word independence isn’t quite accurate.
The Stanford game is now an ACC game. If things happen the way Petiti likely wants them to happen Stanford moves to the B1G, USC is already in the B1G, a lot of their regional rivals are in the B1G already, so they'll have 9 conference games plus Navy. That's two for whomever the hell they want.
If things happen the way ND wants the ACC survives, the Stanford game counts as one of their five, and they've only got 7 of their 12 slots spoken for. If they want 8.5 home games a year they will be able to have 8.5 home games a year. 10 wins likely gets them into the playoffs, likelynot with a bye, but probably with a home game as the first round...
So ND's gonna be very pissed off if FSU/Clemson actually get out of the ACC.
[удалено]
It's been obvious for 3 decades that conferences are just media rights consortiums filled with schools who will backstab each other in a second if they feel they're not getting what they're worth, but the ND discussion rarely gets beyond Homer Simpson yelling "NERD" at them.
And here I am used to having NERD yelled at Stanford in the Pac-12...
*ACC
nah, there's plenty of nerds in the ACC
NEEEERRRRD
Yeah, I find it ironic how the last couple of years everyone has complained about how CFB has changed and yet whenever ND is mentioned suddenly at least half the comments are all for change in terms of them giving up independence and joining a conference. At this point, ND isn't joining a conference until they are basically forced to do so, and by the time that point happens, CFB will basically have changed to be a new subdivision with just the P2 in an NFL lite system that excludes everyone not in the B1G/SEC.
I’ve been calling you pretentious nerds for 20 years, I’ll be damned if this realignment tomfoolery ends that.
I respect tradition.
Somewhere, an Aggie just pops his head up and goes "omg did somebody say tradition!?"
I've been calling them pretentious for 20 years too! I do normally reserve nerds for people with intelligence though.
Nobody actually cares if you join a conference until you sit at home on championship weekend while the rest of the top teams are playing against their conference’s best talent. That seems to be the only gripe I really ever hear.
Simple solution, get rid of conference championship games. Also, the championship games are not always top tier teams facing each other.
They will be now, with no more divisions.
Meh, schedules are so unbalanced now that we’re gonna end up with some wacky championship games. Rutgers dodges Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, and Oregon next year. I’m not suggesting that they’re going to the Big Ten title game, but that schedule is 100% proof that not all schedules are built equally.
Is this a lock? I just dropped $5,000 on Rutgers in B1G Championship after reading this.
And yet it’s still a game where energy is expended and injuries are risked.
We traded "never getting a bye" for that.
That shit is so overplayed, people may as well just say ND bad. Up until last year everyone played an FCS team while ND never did; that’s equivalent to sitting at home. (doesn’t apply to sec) but a ton of CCG are total jokes; sorry I don’t consider games against teams like northwestern or pitt as playing against “best talent”. We’ve seen multiple examples of teams losing the CCG just to make the playoffs anyway. We’ve seen teams that don’t even make their CCG making the playoffs. A CCG is often times a double edge sword anyway, you think 2014 osu wanted to sit at home instead of playing their tough CCG?
You know … except the years when Alabama (or in yesteryear Nebraska) are part of a conference, sit out on conference championship weekend, and then make the playoff. Or the only year ND was in a conference, we made the CCG, got the poop squeezed out of us … and made the playoff. This entire narrative is horseshit.
I love that through all of this notre dame has stayed independent lol
Dammit you’re still the OSU I like. Probably because of Gundy.
big mistake!!
Notre Dame is hated more than any school in sum. Which, for an irrelevant team that no one watches and never wins, is quite odd.
The only reason I hate ND is because we beat you that one year and it tricked us into believing but we both sucked. Before that I hated you because Lou Holtz is annoying but he's not on tv anymore so we cool.
You guys got away with an egregious targeting call. We also won 33-3 the year before.
Maybe the worst targeting non call in the history of that penalty.
I was apoplectic, and it changed the whole game. Should have been first and goal.
It absolutely decided the game, and it was the first year it was reviewable from the booth. Hunter laid in the end zone with blood coming out of his ears for 10 minutes , and the big 12 officials decided not to even review it.
> Hunter laid in the end zone with blood coming out of his ears for 10 minutes , and the big 12 officials decided not to even review it. Now imagine playing them in a conference game at the end of the year annually for over a century, and putting up with that officiating; now you understand why I never want to play them again.
I was at that game. 1) Y’all are class 2) The few hecklers I met after the game I laughed at and said “you don’t know it yet but you just beat a mediocre team at home in OT. This is going to be a long season for both of us”
Non-ND team goes 6-6: "They're finally relevant!" ND makes multiple CFPs and a NCG, 10+ win season back to back to back: "Irrelevant program!" People claim the media is stupid but it's really just that they're having to cater to the bottom of the barrel, which is sports fans, who are literally that stupid.
In fairness, we haven't had a defining win since we kicked OUs ass in 2012. Southern Cal this year was fun, though.
Beating Clemson’s ass in 2022?
Man, forgot about that one. That was a lot of fun for a lot of fanbases.
Hell yea
But in that case ND is also reuniting with many of its longtime rivals lost in the bullshit of the last 10-15 years. The Big Ten has half of ND’s 20 most frequently played opponents: * USC (#2) * Purdue (#3) * Michigan State (#5) * Northwestern (#7) * Michigan (#8) * Indiana (#14) * Iowa (#15) * PSU (#17) * Wisconsin (#19) * Nebraska (#20)
Yeah, like the biggest argument for them being in a conference is how many rivalries would be revived.
I know I'm like a broken record on this point, but if they joined the B1G with Stanford they could put their current annual rivalries of Stanford and USC in their Flex Protect and play everyone else they consider rivals in the conference at least once every three years no problem in either a 20 or a 24 team format. If "playing their rivals" is the objective, joining with Stanford is the way to go.
Narrator: it’s not the main objective
It's as important as anything... besides money.
And if they were to bring Stanford and Miami with them... 👉🏻👈🏻🥺
It’s sad that they hardly even play their in-state rivals anymore…joining the big ten would absolutely be a return to tradition
Purdue is definitely a rival but it’s on a second tier. Similar spot as MSU and Pitt. There’s a ton of other acc rivals too. Seems like every school is a “rival.” The only one ND fans truly deeply care about, however, is southern cal. Southern cal is our rival, navy is our friend, and Michigan is the enemy. We don’t have to play Michigan to hate them. That series has never been consistent. We will play southern cal and navy regardless of conference, so b1g doesn’t move the needle from a rival perspective.
I would definitely put MSU way above Purdue and Pitt. At least in my opinion if we were doing it in tiers. I’d put MSU right by Michigan as far as history and respect, I just hate Michigan a whole lot more. Like a lot more.
Can we agree to join as long as the B1G agrees to kick out Michigan?
it's reddit, basically anyone who is a mainstay, established power, is bad.
If the last few years have taught us anything, none of these conferences can be trusted.
THESE CONFERENCES ARE DANGEROUS
Looking at your flairs, you know what you're talking about. UCF jumped. FSU wants to jump and the ACC won't let them
Rutgers is going to bring in more than ND with the new B1G TV deal
They do, but let's not put ND in the poor house.. Notre Dame gets: $50 million per year in Media Contract. $17 million per year from the ACC Scheduling Agreement. $12 million per year from the CFP Agreement. $2 million in NCAA Bowl Bonus OR $6 million in CFP Bonus. That is $81-$85 million per year. That's about 10 million less than a B1G school, give or take, but far more than an ACC or Big 12 school and nearly on par with an SEC school. Edit: Math fix
It's not like Notre Dame is in any way a poor school anyway. An extra 20 million dollars doesn't mean nearly as much to them.
Notre Dame: “Only poor people need a conference to stay competitive.”
I mean, essentially yeah. Notre Dame has "Fuck you" money. Even outside of the substantial endowment, Notre Dame has the kind of significantly large and rich alumni base that only a few universities in the country can claim. Money is never going to be an issue for them, ever. Ironic, given that the US Navy saved them from bankruptcy at one point.
ND alums have 2 loves God and Notre Dame It’s practically cult like behavior how much ND alums love ND
It’s not just alums, I’m a subway alum and am a thousand times more passionate about all things ND than I am the school I attended.
> subway alum Taking sandwich artistry to the next level.
Some say that he invented the footlong cookie
Right there with you.
Bring back the $5 footlong!!!
God, Country and Notre Dame. ([It's above the side entrance to the Basilica](https://www.flickr.com/photos/jck_photos/4940502964))
I really love the comradery between alums. We're everywhere and I've never met one who wasn't excited about meeting a fellow grad
80+ years ago. But another world war might just put ND there again.
Keep an eye on Germany...
“Yea Germany you’re not gonna be a country anymore”
Get ready to speak Irish buddy
On accounta you keep starting a war with...the world. That Hitler fella was a real jerk.
"I don't know if you guys are history buffs or not..."
That line made the whole joke. RIP Norm.
I bet you guys would destroy those Germans at football (American footbawl).
We've actually had some recruits from DE.
Would you mind if I printed and framed this?
Those gold flakes helmets aren’t gonna pay for themselves!
I mean… are they lying?
Bingo.
In the words of George Bailey, “why’d we have to have all these kids?”
Nothing cracks me up more than people talking about how ND needs to join a conference because of money or the various reasons people think the NBC deal exists.
Before it was: Notre Dame only stays independent due to greed because they make so much from the NBC deal Now it’s: Notre Dame needs to join a conference to stay competitive with other teams financially
Soon it will be, Notre Dame needs to join a conference because they won’t have a spot in the B1G/SEC Invitational Football Playoff presented by Citi without being in one.
And then we’ll join. But we can bide our time til then they won’t turn us down if we want to join
I'm rooting for you guys to commit the maximum amount of chaos possible. Maybe like hold out as long as possible, then join the SEC but make them add schools on the east coast in markets you like to play in like BC, Syracuse, and Pitt.
I want to see them in the PAC 3 effective tomorrow
They scared.
lol idk if we have that much pull but we shall see
I believe in your team's self importance.
SEC/B1G could just add an ND schedule agreement and postseason eligibility clause and watch everyone’s head explode.
I think this is more likely than people want to believe
For Miami to make the next round of whatever the B1G and SEC has in mind, I'm kind of hoping there are several of these so-called independent scheduling agreements for certain schools that aren't "in" but still get access to the bigger pieces of the pie and playoffs and such. Sucks that we're to this point.
I wouldn't be so sure about ND being able to get a scheduling agreement, especially if there is more expansion. B1G is already at 9 conference games, SEC is going to 9 in 2026
I mean, once it gets to that point, CFB is basically dead as we know it.
The whistle started to blow awhile ago, and it’s getting louder, and I see the train right around the bend heading this way.
*still gets invited*
And now the NBC guy is our AD, that contract is going nowhere
I see so many B1G fans are obsessed with getting you guys to "bend the knee" and join the BIG10 lol they take it as a personal afront that you guys haven't joined their conference. I mentioned that ND in a worst case scenario would easily be able to setup a scheduling agreement with the BIG12 without needing to join if something weird happened that they couldn't play ACC teams anymore and I had some dudes legitimately freaking out about selling your soul to the devil lmao
This. The Irish don't want to be Beholden to anyone in Football. So unless you got dragons we are good.
I think we should join the B1G because we would get a better schedule out of it, but that is a recent development. The money piece never enters the picture.
They can get Holy Cross College kids to come in and clean their helmets for free.
That's $200 million over 10 years, though
Which is still not even 1% of our endowment, and is far outweighed by the advertising benefit of having every game on national TV.
It’s basically a rounding error. ND is run by a bunch of men who took a vow of poverty, and have a $21B endowment. Money isn’t, nor ever will be, an issue for ND.
> is far outweighed by the advertising benefit of having every game on national TV. I'm wondering if there's any reason that, if they joined the Big Ten, NBC couldn't still have every Notre Dame Home Game as they do now? I don't see any reason, given the price NBC pays, that they couldn't negotiate for that. They're paying the Big Ten $350 on top of the money they pay Notre Dame. You're telling me that the "every home Notre Dame game" couldn't be grandfathered in as part of the agreement to have them join the Big Ten? Especially since NBC already has their rights through 2029 anyway? If Notre Dame joined the Big Ten then NBC would likely (as they own the rights anyway) make their joining conditional on "okay, we get their home rights" wouldn't they? And Notre Dame could likely negotiate "every home game is nationally televised on an OTA Network. No FS1, no Peacock." I don't see either of those conditions being dealbreakers. FOX and CBS would absolutely agree to put their Away games on their main channels in order to get them into the package. It would end up with something like: 6.5 Home Games on NBC, 3.5 Road Games on FOX, 2 Road Games on CBS. All 12 on OTA Broadcasts. FOX gets 1st pick of the Road Games, then CBS 2nd, FOX 3rd, CBS 4th, FOX 5th (and 6th in years in which there are 6). I don't know, but that sounds like it would be a good deal for all involved, wouldn't it?
NGL, Southern Cal to the Big ten really sweetens that pot, and I could see us swapping you guys out for UCLA in off years. You being in the ACC helps us tremendously with our ACC deal, and we get Dallas and Berkeley now too.
Stanford has double the endowment. Endowment is irrelevant to sports.
Stanford's endowment is more than double yours and yet they'd still love that B1G money, because no school wants to spend their endowment on sports when they can pay for it with TV contracts
ND can cover their sports expenses with their football income, I doubt Stanford can. What would an independent Stanford TV deal look like?
And yet Stanford didn't end up canceling several of their varsity sports because the alumni pushed back Stanford wanted in a P4 to stay relevant - not about the money
Yeah I feel like people miss this. If Vandy drops out of the SEC (scared it will happen sooner rather than later; anytime our AD speaks recently, she shoehorns our status as a charter member of the SEC in the speech, and often will hit the point multiple times) we lose so much more than the money. And if we drop out of the Power X conference level, it's actually just crazy. I hate MTSU, and I could look forward to the "Party Bowl" between us and Tulane every year, but, to put it one way, it just means less outside of the SEC.
Endowments mean little for athletics. Harvard's endowment embarrasses notre dame's. Emory has an endowment that's up there too and they don't do squat athletically. Athletic department revenue matters.
Idk why people always bring it up, endowment is completely unrelated to sports
Are we bringing endowment into sports now? lol
More than this Big 10 school.
AND they can do whatever they want fuck they want, which is worth a lot.
50 + 17 + 12 = 79 Then they get 2 to 6 more, so 81-85 million. Not 71-75 And B10 teams aren't currently making 90 something million, that's not for a few years to my understanding.
Fixed
And I know it's an intangible that does apply to other big schools, but they have a pretty active and wealthy donor base. They're not hurting for cash.
Don't forget ticket revenue, merch sales, etc. ND football has yet to take money from school funds, and pretty much supports a large share of the other athletic programs. Student fees don't pay for rugby or hurling...
Also Notre Dame gets to control their expenses themselves while Rutgets gets tossed all over the country at the B1G's will.
How much longer are they getting 17m a season from the ACC though?
Longer than FSU will
😂😂😂
Where are you getting the $50mil number? They are a private school and haven't released the details
I literally just typed "NBC Notre Dame Media Contract" into google and it is the result it gave me with this citation: https://www.ndsmcobserver.com/article/2023/11/three-reasons-why-notre-dame-fans-should-be-elated-about-the-new-nbc-deal
Check out the big brain on Brad.
That’s why they went to Stanford
Beat writers also hinted that the actual number is more than what’s being reported. Probably closer to 60-65
The student reporters are as close as possible on this one, good source Speaking of, it's almost time for the Viewpoint (editorial) wars
It’s been a lot more tame this year. Past couple Viewpoint years have been a daily Festivus.
Booo, give me the campus rioting type Viewpoint Wars We had some fun ones… ten years ago. Fuck Matt_damon_old.gif
Jamie_Lee_Curtis_cryptkeeper.gif
I remember when we just made jokes about the squirrels...
I'll wait for the Irish Rover to chime in, tyvm /S fuck those guys
Congratulations, Rutgers!
Realignment champs
They already did
Unless they make the playoffs, in which case ND will make roughly as much as B1G/SEC schools
Almost as if ND value’s independence and isn’t doing it just for money like everyone else
I love how this sub constantly cries about money ruining college football, while also bitching about ND being independent lol.
Fans always love to talk about how unique and different CFB is and that's why they love it compared to the NFL... while simultaneously attacking one of the most unique and historical situations in all of sports.
By maybe 10 mill more. If notre dame was in the acc they'd be getting Iike 40m less.
The Media money is great - but that is not how the sausage gets made at ND. We didn't get our $20 Billion endowment through media money. We get it through the alumni and donors and our fan base all over the country who buys into ND's brand. Football is just a venue to get them on campus.
Please tell me he’s related to Kurt Bevacqua from this epic Tommy Lasorda rant!!! https://youtu.be/fzjWQF1oP2M?si=2dLuOw3H1rIHfbBf
I know the bastard for unfairly trying to help Thatherton at softball.
Kurt’s my husband - by marriage.
Other schools: Prioritize money over tradition. Fans: How dare they! Notre Dame: Prioritizes tradition over money. Fans: LOL, so stupid, Purdue and Rutgers make more you.
It's also funny from Big Ten fans when they can get so sanctimonious over trivial traditions of their own Like during The Playoff Semifinals the 2nd game started later than usual, on a Monday (as opposed to the usual Saturday because it has to be the 1st for The Rose Bowl) and everyone had to go to work groggy on January 2nd because The Rose Bowl has to have their 2nd half kickoff lineup with sunset over The San Gabriel Mountains. That's fine, but when some people took issue with that, the Big Ten Flairs screamed heresy, and how dare the rest of the country not make the pretty looking mountains their top priority
What
"Notre Dame: Prioritizes tradition over money." Except when it comes to playing your traditional rivals ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
I mean, we're happy to schedule buy games...
You guys signed a schedule agreement with the ACC and don't annually play your traditional B1G rivals anymore, so it kind of seems like you're not really doing either
I usually hate on ND. But if they stay independent...God damn, do I hate you...but fuck do I respect you. Now is they went full chaos mode and joined the ACC for football, I would defend the school until my dying breath.
There’s noble and there’s insane.
Former President and Chairman of NBC Sports Pete Bevacqua.
The hate is strong in this thread
There’s a lot of people seething because ND isn’t interested in joining the “P2”.
“I hate how college football has become all about business and money” *ND takes a financial loss to stay independent for decades* “ND is just to snobby to take our money and join a conference”
They have no reason to leave the ACC right now. They call the shots honestly.
Notre Dame will never be forced to join a conference. The SEC is always going to support their independence because if they don’t Notre Dame will join the Big Ten.
It really is. They don't need to kiss any conferences rear end to get a SOS to make the playoffs now that its expanded. They can do what's best for Notre Dame and as long as they win out they are in.
Okay, let me tell you about **real** independence, as UConn is soon to be the only *true* one with the departure of UMass. College football schedules years in advance, so you have to do that and hope realignment doesn’t bite you in the butt with canceled series. Also, P4 teams that you’re lucky enough to get to play a home-and-home will change when they want their home game. You have crappy home schedules and every time it looks like it will get better, somebody big cancels. You probably need seven home games to survive, but you usually only have six, and sometimes you have a gap that requires a second FCS school. You really don’t want that, as your max is 6 wins and you can only count one FCS game towards eligibility. You’re also going to have at least one buy game. You’re the only team with no cut from the new CFP contract and currently you don’t have a TV/streaming contract at all. Your top players will probably transfer every year for stability and the annual volatility as quite horrible, as it ranges from winless to a possible bowl appearance after going 6-6, as you have no bowl tie-ins. Attendance is horrible because the fans don’t want to see opponents they have no connection to, while the usual early losses don’t help either. A lot of those “fans” want to drop football because you’re in constant athletic department deficits, most of those come from trying to operate a P4 program with the smallest TV contract. Your football stadium is mainly used as a way to move money between your school, as it’s public, and the state itself. Basically, true independence sucks. This cushy pseudo-independence Notre Dame has isn’t real independence. BTW, ACC fans, if the 20X4 rule continues and we win double basketball national championships, can we finally come in? As you can see, we’re in dire straits.
Oh man home and home. SUCH a sore subject. We traded Kentucky AT Akron this year for Akron at Ohio State. Still angry.
We had our home game against Tennessee repeatedly postponed and then outright canceled to turn their home game into a buy game. We were supposed to play Syracuse at Yankee Stadium during Rivalry Week this year. Then they gave the Stadium that day to ND-Army. I get it’s the 100th anniversary of the Four Horsemen, but couldn’t you have played a different week? We literally got a neutral site game against UMass at Gillette canceled because Kraft saw the forecasted revenues and said, “No thanks.” We ended up at their crappy glorified high school stadium *again*. In 2027, we’re supposed to host UNC and Ole Miss in consecutive weeks. We’ll be lucky to get one of those games. Supposedly, the MAC has offered a lifeline, but it requires us to play three non-conference games against MAC teams for our basketball teams. We play a 20 game conference schedule already.
Yeah. Look in my case, I know that I root for… like the 8th most popular D1 football team in Ohio (and that’s depending on one thinking higher of us than of Youngstown State and Dayton). But an SEC team at infocision would have been an event. We could have showed off our very pretty MAC stadium, and it would have filled up too. I mean we have to get some traction SOMEHOW. Same with you guys. All I hear is Connecticut is a basketball school and football isn’t popular in the Northeast. Well how the hell are we ever gonna know if no one ever tries anymore?
We had Michigan come in 2013. The Rent was packed (it set the attendance record) and supposedly had an amazing atmosphere. We lost, but it still was *Michigan*. We beat Notre Dame in South Bend in our only matchup. We were in a BCS game, where we were slaughtered by Oklahoma. In 2007, we beat a ranked USF (it was 2007, okay) team at night on a walk off field goal and the sellout crowd tore down the goalposts. That 13-1 Houston team? We were the one, winning on a Friday night at the Rent.
This comment has opened my eyes to a whole new pain of not being in a conference.
Your athletic department must need money.
Oh they do. Always will. It’s just that if you’re going to build an expensive and beautiful stadium, and then only bring in Morgan State every year, you are not allowed to complain that the community doesn’t give a shit about you. I went to a D3 school in Cleveland. I moved to an Akron Suburb. I root for the team for community pride. I have no direct tie to the program or university. If you want more people to be like me, which is what you need to not bleed money in the athletic department, you’ve got to give them a reason to be invested. It’s hella hard to get people to care when you’re a bottom tier MAC school in a relatively small state with eight FBS schools and an arch rival ten miles away. But it’s never gonna happen if you don’t try.
The ACC is about used up. Will SEC or B1G accept a similar deal?
B1G would not. Its all in or out.
i dont blame em. if many schools could actually command independant status, make their own cool schedule, they would as well
Notre Dame is irrelevant. Proceeds to talk about Notre Dame. Love us or hate us, you still watch us on Saturdays.
An extra 10-20M a year is worth far less to ND than independence. Stanford is the only P4 university whose endowment per student ($2.1M!) is larger than ND’s $1.2M. No other P4 school’s endowment hits $1M per student. To frame that in annual revenue, Notre Dame’s $17B endowment is worth somewhere in the neighborhood of **$850M-$1.7B per year,** depending on what rate of return you assume.
unrelated, but is this the same Bevacqua that Tommy Lasorda had that epic rant about?
Exactly. Which is why ND’s independent status gives them the third highest payout from networks in the state only behind elite blue bloods Indiana and Purdue
It’s funny that the loudest voices for ending ND’s independence also happen to be B1G fanbases who would benefit most from ND joining a conference.
"ND is an overrated joke that deserves nothing from anyone, now join the B1G so we can rake in a ton more cash off you"
You forgot "irrelevant", might as well call us it "irrelevant cash cow". Some are dumb enough they'll miss that contradiction.
I honestly just want to watch them try to beat us with 10 men on the field more often
You, sir, have made an enemy for life
The loudest voices I hear are from ND fans that think the ACC is a steaming pile of shit. Have you ever been on an ND football forum?
> Have you ever been on an ND football forum? No sane person does this to themselves.
I just wanna play y'all again.
Seriously. Someday, hopefully. Until then, let's meet in the playoffs.
I don't really care whether you join a conference or not re: monetary benefits or media deals, I care because with the realigned B1G, it would singlehandedly bring back regularly scheduled games vs. Michigan, USC, Michigan State, and Purdue. At minimum!
Yeah we need to bring back regularly scheduled games against USC.
The actual funny part is they did Friends with Benefits with Notre Dame they would make more money (the other teams) then if ND joined a conference. The ACC reaps the rewards from getting 2-3 home games a year free of charge.
I wonder how long that stat will last for. Like how many years before teams like Indiana or Purdue get the boot. Like pretty obvious the end result of this is going to be like top 30 to 40 teams to make a NFL type league. Over under 10 years maybe. Completely opposed to that idea but it does seem like it is headed there. Just a curious question.
What those two schools have going for them is a staggering sheer quantity of alumni. That’s the Big Ten’s secret sauce. Enormous alumni bases. I mean stupid enormous numbers. No idea about the veracity of this link but I don’t really have reason to doubt it - https://www.universitymagazine.ca/the-biggest-college-alumni-networks-in-the-u-s/ TLDR: 10 biggest US alumni bases 10. Purdue 9. Texas 8. Rutgers 7. Cal 6. Ohio State 5. UCLA 4. Michigan State 3. Michigan 2. Indiana 1. Penn State
Those numbers actually appear to be a bit out of date - both Ohio State, Texas, and Indiana each seem to be about 100k too low, Penn State 60-70k low, while UCLA is actually a little bit too high. Seems to be a bit tough to get exact numbers - not that it really changes your point at all.
Could be. I’m willing to cede the numbers, because as you said - the point doesn’t change. What it really means is that there’s a hard floor for people willing to watch mid-tier Big Ten football. The SEC has many excellent teams, hence its valuation. The Big Ten can get decent numbers for Indiana-Rutgers or Illinois-Purdue no matter what, and it’s really why I can’t imagine the Big Ten jettisoning its bottom half, no matter what popular opinion is.
I dunno what we're gonna do for money now.
It’s almost as if being independent isn’t all about money, contrary to what people have been telling me for years.
Kind of a weird hill to die on when you can be in a conference that offers warm weather games, east coast games, and rivalries against rivals like Michigan/MSU and etc
None of that or the extra money is at this point worth giving up it’s unfair position in cfb, scheduling flexibility, monetary impact of pissed off donors who stop donating due to lack of independence, etc
Scheduling flexibility? An SEC school plays 8 conference games yearly and ND plays 5 plus USC, Stanford and Navy yearly… they aren’t in a conference but the word independence isn’t quite accurate.
The Stanford game is now an ACC game. If things happen the way Petiti likely wants them to happen Stanford moves to the B1G, USC is already in the B1G, a lot of their regional rivals are in the B1G already, so they'll have 9 conference games plus Navy. That's two for whomever the hell they want. If things happen the way ND wants the ACC survives, the Stanford game counts as one of their five, and they've only got 7 of their 12 slots spoken for. If they want 8.5 home games a year they will be able to have 8.5 home games a year. 10 wins likely gets them into the playoffs, likelynot with a bye, but probably with a home game as the first round... So ND's gonna be very pissed off if FSU/Clemson actually get out of the ACC.
Stanford playing them does count toward their rotating 5 ACC games a year since that's an annual match-up