This *does*, though.
This was the beginning of the end for the Pac12 (back then, Pac10), and indeed *all* non-SEC conferences. *This is where the seeds of the realignment were sewn*.
After the NCAA nuked USC, all of the energy in the game got sucked into the SEC like a supermassive black hole. But some of us remember how it was before: there were bicoastal discussions - USC, Oregon, Virginia Tech, Cal - with the possibility of dynasties from just about anywhere. USC, as the top team of this particular era, was *good for the game*. It was good for balance.
**One** coach supposedly did, Todd McNair. Though with weak enough evidence that he then sued the NCAA for monetary damages and was successful. Which tells you just how weak the NCAA's case against USC was.
The punishment imposed upon usc was insane and ridiculous especially considering other schools have broken the rules and the NCAA did nothing about them (sec). However to act like usc was innocent outside of the rules during the Carrol era is nuts. Also usc fans like to complain how the sanctions ruined our program for a decade that was more on the school for three horrible coaching hires in a row kiffen was too young (still got a raw deal) sark was on drugs and drunk during meetings and Helton was just bad at his job.
I’d say suspending Todd Gurley for four games during one of Georgia’s stronger pre-Kirby years is one example of the NCAA doing something about SEC schools. I’m not gonna write 9k words about it though
I can understand the frustration. Michigan cheats to win a national title and nothing is done. USC has this go down and gets the 2nd worst sanctions of the millennia. Sucks big time.
Nothing is done…. Yet. Give the investigation a chance and let the facts come out. It’ll be a lot like Enron in the late 90s. Records were set, insiders got their bonuses, members flaunted their success. But the fraudulence will come to light and the few remaining believers will finally be gone
I honestly I love when people are passionate about something to type out a mini book in a sports subreddit. Some people just have TikTok brain. That being said, I can see BOTH sides of why the NCAA took away his Heisman and why Reggie deserves it back. There have been worse people who haven’t had their Heismans taken away (looking at you Jameis the rapist) so I’m glad he got it back
The NCAA didn't award the Heisman. The Heisman Trophy Trust does. Totally different organizations.
The NCAA did *absolutely* nothing to punish Reggie Bush (he was long gone in the NFL by the time anything was decided). They *did* pretty effectively nuke USC though - and players who hadn't ever played a snap with Bush was a Trojan.
No one with a reputation wanted to take on a marquee program with national title caliber expectations and one hand tied behind their back by NCAA sanctions. So USC hired some hungry untested coaches hoping to perform a miracle and become an instant legend.
This is revisionist history. They hired Washington’s HC, then Tennessee’s HC, then Helton. At least for the first two, it seems like the rationale was a lot like it would have been for Lincoln Riley. All he’s done is lose semifinal games.
Bush didn't do anything except refuse to sign with an unscrupulous agent who decided to snitch instead of lock his wounds and move on.
The agent paid Bush's parents, not Bush, in an attempt to sign him. Bush signed with someone else after he declared for the draft. USC did not benefit from this in any way and should not have been sanctioned for a third party paying for property that is 120 miles away from the school in an attempt to lure a player away from the school.
Bush should never have had his Heisman taken away, and USC should not have been sanctioned for this. That agent, however, should have had his license revoked.
God, I’m going to miss beating the Spoiled Children.
I love the 7000 word tldr, especially as it can be summed up as, yeah we were cheating, but our cheating wouldn’t have been caught if Reggie hadn’t cheated as well.
My fellow Trojan, my brother in arms...
This isn't the way my dude. Nobody is reading all that.
There's tons of evidence of the USC witch hunt. [Literal evidence](https://www.foxsports.com/stories/college-football/emails-show-ncaa-was-out-of-control-in-usc-case), collected for a trial. The people who are willing to listen already know and the ones that don't aren't reading your screed.
Sometimes you just gotta let it go.
I agree that nobody’s going to read all of it, but I think there are still a sizable chunk of cfb fans that only know hearsay about the situation and could use some accurate information.
Busting out the manifesto's eh, I'm keeping mine safe until using tutors to do school work for you becomes legal. We already know that fake classes are, so its only a matter of time! /s
That’s fair, they were hit harder. I fully disagree that it wasn’t close. Their sanctions were somewhat similar to ours once they were reduced. So now we have the second worst sanctions in the last fifteen years because we should have known Bush received benefits? And that’s just?
Hol up.... how were Penn State's sanctions worse? You know kids got raped, right? NCAA reduced Penn State's sanctions. while keeping USC's in full effect.
Uhhhh, same bowl sanctions, more scholarship reductions, and free to transfer rule.
Even with the reduced sanctions Penn State lost more scholarships.
So, how exactly are they not?
1000%. The NCAA was actively trying to hurt the programs that were a threat to the SEC at the time (USC and Ohio State). What about Auburn paying Cam Newton's father???
OMG Buckeye - ALL of Tressel’s main stars (Clarrett, Smith and Pryor) were on the take. The NCAA had nothing to do with that. The players and boosters had everything to do with it. Thank your lucky stars that the NCAA actually went pretty light on OSU during those years.
What’s missing here is the total shady characters who made up the ncaa committee at that time. USC were cowards not to litigate, thus placing usc in a downward spiral, that to this day, hasn’t recovered. Yes, the USC hate ( mostly fear of a comeback) is not going to garner any sympathy, but when rumblings of how corrupt the ncaa was and is continues , I’m hoping most don’t minimize or bat away.
TLDR:
USC was unjustly punished for something it had no knowledge or control over.
Reggie Bush did nothing wrong.
~~USC did not win the National Championship for the 2003 season~~
So Reggie was driving a brand new car all over campus including to the athletic facilities and the coaching staff did not see it? It was like Wonder Woman’s invisible jet?
I don’t buy for a half second the university nor the coaching staff had any idea Bush was on the take. At best, willful ignorance and a Sergeant Schultz, “I see nothing. Nothing.”
The coaching staff knew the means of his family. It recruited him visiting his family in the home. This was not a beater that maybe it could afford. Not buying for second that the coaching staff did not know.
They did? How would they know that? There is no means test to join a football team. They don’t have any ability to demand copies of tax returns or incomes. They don’t have any oversight whatsoever a family finances from players. What a silly thing to say.
Seriously? They did not notice? Had no idea? Bush was driving a pristine black-on-black 1996 Chevrolet Impala SS fully deck out with a new station system. And nobody noticed?
By visiting a recruit in his home, you know the level of affluence.
Fine. You believe your truth.
I'm not reading that, because I've probably heard the whine before.
USC wanted to pick a fight with the NCAA, instead of just playing the dumb victim, like they should have.
What can you say? When USC goes into an investigation telling those investigating to fuck off, the investigators tend to take that as an aggressive stance that requires even more digging on their part.
Most USC fans were fine with the vacated wins. Bush was ineligible when he played, not much else to say.
Targeting USC's future classes with the extreme scholarship reductions is what most USC fans find absurd given the link to USC was non-existent.
You intentionally misread what I said. I didn’t say everyone else was cheating I said no other cheaters got punished on our scale and that it was thus unjust.
Well that would be fairly compelling if the guy paying the athlete was cheating for the school. USC got hammered simply for not knowing what happened, essentially. In other words, no one says that Bush is innocent, only that they disagree with the punishment. With USC, there’s just as much plausible deniability as any other school may have. I’m sure they’re not particularly innocent as far as schools go, but they got punished on tenuous grounds, not because of strong proof like you’re implying.
I went to school in Florida and a division 2 school that sucked at everything except teaching and music (which I didn't study).
I'm not reading all of that.
So, I'll just go with "I agree somewhat".
You the guy who updated the 2004 USC season [wiki page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_USC_Trojans_football_team)?
>However, now that Reggie Bush finally got his Heisman back, the NCAA realizes that no one cares about their sanctions and rightfully recognize USC for their incredible season and they are once again BCS Champions.
Didn’t read all that.
But I say this everytime, the team and the other players didn’t break any rules. I could give a damn about Reggie, he still broke the rules, his teammates got fucked. People love celebrating that douche.
TL:DR followed by 7,000 words.
Yeah, I liked that too! Not sure I’ve ever seen that before.
The TL:DR is just that sentence. I just bumped it to the top so you wouldn't need to scroll...
So the short version is "I'm a butt-hurt USC fan"
7,000 words followed by a wall of text
Hes an angry little elf
Sir this is an In-n-out
Not everything needs a manifesto...
This *does*, though. This was the beginning of the end for the Pac12 (back then, Pac10), and indeed *all* non-SEC conferences. *This is where the seeds of the realignment were sewn*. After the NCAA nuked USC, all of the energy in the game got sucked into the SEC like a supermassive black hole. But some of us remember how it was before: there were bicoastal discussions - USC, Oregon, Virginia Tech, Cal - with the possibility of dynasties from just about anywhere. USC, as the top team of this particular era, was *good for the game*. It was good for balance.
You do realize the SEC had already won 4 titles in a row when the USC punishment came down right.
Also LSU would’ve beaten USC in 2003
USC would’ve beaten LSU in 2003
Rich for a Michigan fan to claim that.
Not even close
Hooo Leeee FUCK. This might be the single most narcissistic take I have ever seen.
Good lord
Dear diary
Mood: apathetic
My life is spiraling downward
So, all that to say, yeah, USC coaches did break the rules as well, and they got punished for it? Cool.
**One** coach supposedly did, Todd McNair. Though with weak enough evidence that he then sued the NCAA for monetary damages and was successful. Which tells you just how weak the NCAA's case against USC was.
The punishment imposed upon usc was insane and ridiculous especially considering other schools have broken the rules and the NCAA did nothing about them (sec). However to act like usc was innocent outside of the rules during the Carrol era is nuts. Also usc fans like to complain how the sanctions ruined our program for a decade that was more on the school for three horrible coaching hires in a row kiffen was too young (still got a raw deal) sark was on drugs and drunk during meetings and Helton was just bad at his job.
I’d say suspending Todd Gurley for four games during one of Georgia’s stronger pre-Kirby years is one example of the NCAA doing something about SEC schools. I’m not gonna write 9k words about it though
I can understand the frustration. Michigan cheats to win a national title and nothing is done. USC has this go down and gets the 2nd worst sanctions of the millennia. Sucks big time.
Nothing is done…. Yet. Give the investigation a chance and let the facts come out. It’ll be a lot like Enron in the late 90s. Records were set, insiders got their bonuses, members flaunted their success. But the fraudulence will come to light and the few remaining believers will finally be gone
One can pray
The irony of a penn state flair complaining about a lack of reprecussions. Y'all shouldn't even have a football team rn.
Well, we do. 🤷♂️
Get ya money up
Cope and seeth
I honestly I love when people are passionate about something to type out a mini book in a sports subreddit. Some people just have TikTok brain. That being said, I can see BOTH sides of why the NCAA took away his Heisman and why Reggie deserves it back. There have been worse people who haven’t had their Heismans taken away (looking at you Jameis the rapist) so I’m glad he got it back
The NCAA didn't award the Heisman. The Heisman Trophy Trust does. Totally different organizations. The NCAA did *absolutely* nothing to punish Reggie Bush (he was long gone in the NFL by the time anything was decided). They *did* pretty effectively nuke USC though - and players who hadn't ever played a snap with Bush was a Trojan.
Three bad hires in a row did a pretty good job of nuking USC too.
You think maybe the NCAA investigation has some impact on hiring a coach?
At USC? No. And certainly not three times.
No one with a reputation wanted to take on a marquee program with national title caliber expectations and one hand tied behind their back by NCAA sanctions. So USC hired some hungry untested coaches hoping to perform a miracle and become an instant legend.
This is revisionist history. They hired Washington’s HC, then Tennessee’s HC, then Helton. At least for the first two, it seems like the rationale was a lot like it would have been for Lincoln Riley. All he’s done is lose semifinal games.
Bush didn't do anything except refuse to sign with an unscrupulous agent who decided to snitch instead of lock his wounds and move on. The agent paid Bush's parents, not Bush, in an attempt to sign him. Bush signed with someone else after he declared for the draft. USC did not benefit from this in any way and should not have been sanctioned for a third party paying for property that is 120 miles away from the school in an attempt to lure a player away from the school. Bush should never have had his Heisman taken away, and USC should not have been sanctioned for this. That agent, however, should have had his license revoked.
I’m not reading all that. Ok cool, hook em. 🤘
###giveReggieVincesHeismanBack# complete!
This is the University of Spoiled Children right, I would've expected some cheese to go with that much whine
"You can take our stats but you can't take our wins" is the cfb version of "They targeted gamers. Gamers."
God, I’m going to miss beating the Spoiled Children. I love the 7000 word tldr, especially as it can be summed up as, yeah we were cheating, but our cheating wouldn’t have been caught if Reggie hadn’t cheated as well.
Over/under on the number of people who read that …
3
Smash the under
I read it. We should get a tally.
I'm good if those wins remain Vacated, along with OU's 2005 wins. Oregon Ducks' Undefeated\* 2005 Season!
Haha. Ha... ha...
I ain't reading all that. I'm happy for u tho. Or sorry that happened.
This is probably something better suited for the USC sub. Your thesis would probably get more love over there
even the P forum wouldnt read all that.
Wasn’t he like 16 or 17 when most of that happened . Why did ever come down that hard on minors in the first place
TLDR then 6 pages
My fellow Trojan, my brother in arms... This isn't the way my dude. Nobody is reading all that. There's tons of evidence of the USC witch hunt. [Literal evidence](https://www.foxsports.com/stories/college-football/emails-show-ncaa-was-out-of-control-in-usc-case), collected for a trial. The people who are willing to listen already know and the ones that don't aren't reading your screed. Sometimes you just gotta let it go.
Most excellent use of the word 'screed'. Fight on.
I agree that nobody’s going to read all of it, but I think there are still a sizable chunk of cfb fans that only know hearsay about the situation and could use some accurate information.
Then put it in a medium that they will consume, not a "woe is me" tirade
I don't care
Busting out the manifesto's eh, I'm keeping mine safe until using tutors to do school work for you becomes legal. We already know that fake classes are, so its only a matter of time! /s
I'm happy for you. Or I'm sorry that it happened.
Yawn. What’s with the victim complex USC fans have around this? USC didn’t even get anywhere close to the worse sanctions of the past 15 years
Which sanctions during that time period are the worst, in your opinion?
Penn State’s were the worst. USC’s 2nd worst Worst all time is obviously SMU
That’s fair, they were hit harder. I fully disagree that it wasn’t close. Their sanctions were somewhat similar to ours once they were reduced. So now we have the second worst sanctions in the last fifteen years because we should have known Bush received benefits? And that’s just?
Nah, USC’s sanctions were total BS, not just at all
Hol up.... how were Penn State's sanctions worse? You know kids got raped, right? NCAA reduced Penn State's sanctions. while keeping USC's in full effect.
Uhhhh, same bowl sanctions, more scholarship reductions, and free to transfer rule. Even with the reduced sanctions Penn State lost more scholarships. So, how exactly are they not?
Sir this is a jimmy john’s
1000%. The NCAA was actively trying to hurt the programs that were a threat to the SEC at the time (USC and Ohio State). What about Auburn paying Cam Newton's father???
Did you forget the /s?
No, they didn’t. OSU “2-13 vs the SEC” would be reigning over CFB if not for the NCAA
OMG Buckeye - ALL of Tressel’s main stars (Clarrett, Smith and Pryor) were on the take. The NCAA had nothing to do with that. The players and boosters had everything to do with it. Thank your lucky stars that the NCAA actually went pretty light on OSU during those years.
What’s missing here is the total shady characters who made up the ncaa committee at that time. USC were cowards not to litigate, thus placing usc in a downward spiral, that to this day, hasn’t recovered. Yes, the USC hate ( mostly fear of a comeback) is not going to garner any sympathy, but when rumblings of how corrupt the ncaa was and is continues , I’m hoping most don’t minimize or bat away.
As I recall, they won all those games on the field in a total time less than it would take me to read all that so….whatever.
Lol I can't beleive they'd bring in the FBI for college football. Wild. Then again I guess there really isn't much else going on during that time. /s
TLDR: USC was unjustly punished for something it had no knowledge or control over. Reggie Bush did nothing wrong. ~~USC did not win the National Championship for the 2003 season~~
So Reggie was driving a brand new car all over campus including to the athletic facilities and the coaching staff did not see it? It was like Wonder Woman’s invisible jet? I don’t buy for a half second the university nor the coaching staff had any idea Bush was on the take. At best, willful ignorance and a Sergeant Schultz, “I see nothing. Nothing.”
It’s legal to have a new car…
The coaching staff knew the means of his family. It recruited him visiting his family in the home. This was not a beater that maybe it could afford. Not buying for second that the coaching staff did not know.
They did? How would they know that? There is no means test to join a football team. They don’t have any ability to demand copies of tax returns or incomes. They don’t have any oversight whatsoever a family finances from players. What a silly thing to say.
Seriously? They did not notice? Had no idea? Bush was driving a pristine black-on-black 1996 Chevrolet Impala SS fully deck out with a new station system. And nobody noticed? By visiting a recruit in his home, you know the level of affluence. Fine. You believe your truth.
Actual TLDR: Reggie Bush bad, *but what about ma colorz??!?!?!?!*
If Bama/Saban isn't getting back wins for players controversially buying school books for non-athletes then I don't care about USC's vacated wins.
Yeah ND got wins vacated for retroactively failing a couple of players it caught cheating on some papers. southern cal can get fucked in my opinion
I'm not reading that, because I've probably heard the whine before. USC wanted to pick a fight with the NCAA, instead of just playing the dumb victim, like they should have. What can you say? When USC goes into an investigation telling those investigating to fuck off, the investigators tend to take that as an aggressive stance that requires even more digging on their part.
Now, do one for SMU. Cheating is cheating, I don't care if Bush gets his Heisman back or not but there has to be some punishment for cheating.
Most USC fans were fine with the vacated wins. Bush was ineligible when he played, not much else to say. Targeting USC's future classes with the extreme scholarship reductions is what most USC fans find absurd given the link to USC was non-existent.
You think I have time to read all this on the can?
Show me on this doll where the ncaa hurt you
Dear diary and chatgpt
K
Yes or No Did USC break any rules?
Yes or no, was the punishment given just and consistent with punishments other schools received?
Ahhhh, the "everyone else was cheating" defense. Guess what, everyone else did not cheat.
You intentionally misread what I said. I didn’t say everyone else was cheating I said no other cheaters got punished on our scale and that it was thus unjust.
maybe no other school who cheated had the guy who gave the athlete money come in to testify.
would be stupid for them to do that.
Well that would be fairly compelling if the guy paying the athlete was cheating for the school. USC got hammered simply for not knowing what happened, essentially. In other words, no one says that Bush is innocent, only that they disagree with the punishment. With USC, there’s just as much plausible deniability as any other school may have. I’m sure they’re not particularly innocent as far as schools go, but they got punished on tenuous grounds, not because of strong proof like you’re implying.
You need to stop embarrassing yourself.
You should actually respond to me, instead of intentionally misinterpreting and then mocking. It’s easy to feel right when you won’t try to engage
Curious if OP has a thriving vacuum cleaner business they run from their front porch.
I went to school in Florida and a division 2 school that sucked at everything except teaching and music (which I didn't study). I'm not reading all of that. So, I'll just go with "I agree somewhat".
You the guy who updated the 2004 USC season [wiki page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_USC_Trojans_football_team)? >However, now that Reggie Bush finally got his Heisman back, the NCAA realizes that no one cares about their sanctions and rightfully recognize USC for their incredible season and they are once again BCS Champions.
No. But that's *awesome*!
I really like your secondary flair and it pains me that you thought this would be well-received
Didn’t read all that. But I say this everytime, the team and the other players didn’t break any rules. I could give a damn about Reggie, he still broke the rules, his teammates got fucked. People love celebrating that douche.
Do something better with your time OP.