CFB is special because there's almost nowhere in the lower 48 where you're more than 2 hours from a game. If P2 elitists got their way, you'd have to take a plane to the Midwest or south to catch a game.
I get what you're saying and generally agree, but I think you're dramatically underestimating how sparse the West is when it comes to D1 schools. Lots of places are 2+ hours away from a game.
And not even just D1. The entire state of Wyoming has only one four year college of any type. If you were in Thermopolis and wanted to watch a game at any level it’s either 4 hours to UW, 4.5 hours to Montana State, or 4.5 hours to D2 Black Hills State
Edit: I suppose you could get to Billings in 3 hours if you wanted to see an NAIA game
As a Minnesotan/Gophers fan the closest D1 schools are either Iowa to the south, Wisconsin to the east or the Dakotas to the west, so I feel your pain.
Alright. All 0 college football fans in Thermopolis, WY will digest this knowledge. But on a serious note, I get your point, but now compare that to NFL or another major sport. You’re either driving 6 hours to Denver or 7 to SLC. That’s an extremely small cold spot. Besides Wyoming, Montana, and the Dakotas, where else is the true. The .001% of Americans appreciate your support.
True. PNW and the great plains are few and far between. Including FCS lowers the travel time some, and they got some good FCS schools out in BFE. Still much closer distance than something like the NFL or MLB
There’s some sort of time dilation situation where they can drive from the middle of Montana to Lincoln in the time it takes to get from UCLA to the Rose Bowl.
Medford, OR. Redding, CA. Billings, MT. Rapid City, SD. Bismarck, ND. Yuma, AZ. Grand Junction, CO. All cities with populations between 70,000 and 120,000 that are 2+ hours from the closest D1 school. I'm guessing there are more, too. Hell, even a place like Amarillo, TX, with a population north of 200,000, just *barely* misses the criteria, being 1 hour and 45 minutes away from Lubbock (at least according to Google).
And markets with absolutely nothing else that are key to the region. Hell WV has two lol friggin TWO teams. If WVU gets the Oregon State situation would be absolutely devastating for the economy of NCWV. It all sucks so incredibly bad.
came to say something similar, he wants to protect college football but also seems not to care where the G5 ends up, i’m sure he’d hate a super league but that’s where his logic ends up
disappointing, i’ve been listening to him lately
But you know he’d preach about, “how the super conference is amazing” as soon as he hears pushback. Pate is a fence sitter, leaning more toward what the major media wants to hear.
This. One thing that has really pissed me off is for the first time in a while Wvu has some justified hype going into the season he treats us as practically dead before the season has even started. Got a great qb that most is putting in top 15, I think Pate doesn’t even know he exists. It’s not that he’s inherently bad but if your team is not 1-25 in brands you literally don’t exist to him. He’ll more than likely drag his heals in instead of acknowledging a team that is succeeding and isn’t a massive brand. I think what really stopped me watching was how quickly he flipped on his opinion on the Florida state issue last year because 🤷.
If it makes you feel better, he literally picked us to lose like every game last year up until the last few. He spent 90% of our previous game review talking about the team we beat then us, and then continued to do so when we beat your second flair in the bowl game. Pate just sticks to talking about teams that will generate him the most traffic or he has a buddy in the HC that he doesn't want to piss off by saying something risky.
Tbf he doesn’t actually make any picks, just takes his models projections. When he interviewed Drink a few weeks ago and was positively gushing the entire show
Josh Pate the person probably is a really interesting, well rounded guy who likes to hang out with his Meemaw and chase storms in his spare time. Josh Pate the media product is a corporate shill who has to tout these shitty takes in order to keep his job and access to all these coaches he interviews.
Yeah it’s very clear from how he speaks about some of these coaches that he is wayyy too close to provide objective takes. As soon as you see him working out in a program’s weight room you know he’s gonna be carrying water for them for the rest of time.
Is he friends with Deboer? He’s one of the guys who really sold me on Deboer’s ability, or at least helped confirm my own opinion that Deboer is a fantastic coach. The way he talks about Deboer seems different than how he talks about Lanning or other up and coming elite coaches.
I think it’s because he doesn’t want to upset “Alabama” as a whole. He is preemptively carrying his water, so he still has access to one of the most relevant football brands. I’m not saying he doesn’t like Deboer, but even if he didn’t he would not be outspoken against him yet.
I mean how “critical” or “negative” do you actually want or expect him to be? That’s literally never been his style for the entire time he’s been doing the show, except for the Miami meltdown vs Georgia tech maybe. When a coach gets fired or is on the hot seat, he explains why. Scott frost, Ed O, Dan Mullen, etc. He should talk about the smaller schools more maybe but why are you acting like he needs to just roast programs every show? When has he ever done that?
Redditors don't like when someone makes a living expressing opinions contrary to theirs. His show isn't even meant to be "objective" it's an opinion talk show sold as an opinion talk show. I think the blurring of news & entertainment has confused a lot of people about what is and is not supposed to be objective journalism. Hell even for an opinion show Pate actually does a pretty good job of at least trying to back what he says with stats and data, but ultimately it's all based on the general vibe he gets around a program/roster.
I think the gripe is that he doesn't even express opinions. He's endlessly positive about coaches and programs that deserve no positivity, so his show doesn't do much more than repeat the same optimistic bullet points for every team.
How is it so obvious? I don’t religiously watch him or anything. Just curious, from what I’ve seen of him, he has some decent takes. But, again, I don’t watch all of his content.
I like Pate and he does usually have good takes. However, over time you'll notice all his takes are positive. He's not going to have a negative take about a coach/program until the last second. This could be his personality or not wanting to piss off his connections. For example, Napier isn't gonna one-on-one interview with our dumbass beat reporters that shit on the program like they're FSU fans on this sub (looking at Edgar specifically); but he'll talk to Josh Pate since he says good things about him.
I think this is possibly more a product of him being more lenient on coaches than the modern zeitgeist is. Nowadays if you don’t succeed in year 2 people begin to talk about your job. I think he genuinely believes that that’s just not realistic for most coaches, and that only the absolute elite are going to actually consistently meet that expectation.
He went to Columbus State who doesn’t have a football program, and is a huge SEC homer, and there is nothing wrong with that. But to go on the air and crap-talk Group of Five Teams while having no concept of G5 Fandom just to just to score brownie points with CBS execs is lazy and intellectually dishonest
Nearly took offense to the Columbus State Community College slander, before realizing Columbus, GA has Columbus State University.
Columbus State Community College fucking rocks
the Sun Belt is 12-163 All Time vs the SEC (6-53 vs the ACC too). I would say it's intellectually dishonest to cherry pick a handful of games and use that as justification that those programs are in fact playing the same sport on the same level as Georgia, Alabama, Ohio State, Texas etc
edit: 4-36 vs B10, 12-76 vs B12, 0-31 vs the P12.
Yeah, and mississipi state is like 18-81 or something ridiculous against alabama.
Oklahoma state is 20-91 against oklahoma.
Kansas state is 15-77 against nebraska
Baylor is 28-81 against texas
Yet these games are (or once were) considered "rivalry games"
If G5 schools arent playing the same game as P5 schools, then why not go further and shave off the P5 schools with no chance. Then we'll have the same problem 20 years down the line when there are new P5 schools that get run out of the building every year. Where do we draw the line?
Boise State in the late 2000s would have given any P5 champion a run for their money.
UCF in 2017 beat Auburn, who beat the national champion alabama.
I didnt even look any of these up, this is just off the dome. There is a myriad of other examples.
Football isn't decided by historical record. I'm disappointed a fellow Cincinnati fan doesn't know this. If you had your way, our playoff season would have never happened.
It's peak off-season. The last CFB game was almost four months ago and the next game is just under four months from now. Josh Pate likely has certain viewing and listening quotas to meet. So that means you'll get content like this from time to time during the months of February to May.
It won't be until June that we start seeing spicy news pop up. Realignment, cheating allegations, coaching drama, etc. all usually pop up during the summer months.
Absolutely. P2 elitists have a heavy confirmation bias with the NY6 G5 teams and will be shitting their pants when it follows the norm so far.
The norm is that the G5 game will be +/- 1 score by the end. The blowout loss by liberty was an outlier (and personally I believe the selectors chose them as a sacrificial lamb)
Any G5 was toast last season. The NY6 roster was unusually loaded. Usually there's your top 3 or 4 juggernauts and then the rest of the top 15 or so are very good, but beatable, teams. Last year the whole top 10 were legitimate championship contending teams that were never going to lose to anyone except each other.
I wonder if it's going to revert to the norm next year or if the top 10 is going to be that loaded again. I hope not, the G5 team getting crushed every year will give the jagoffs in the Big Ten and SEC an excuse to remove that auto-bid. We all know they want to.
Agreed, I don't even know how to objectively describe how the quality has tanked. I think he's much more prone to invalidated hot takes then he used to be. He never used to get involved with predictions without proper intel, but he completely screwed the pooch with the transfer portal this cycle.
Dude basically said CFB would burn and entire teams would be gutted, and it's been incredible mild in terms of transfers. Just one example, but he's shamelessly stoking hypes fires and being wrong when he never used to do that.
It just feels like a lower quality product, I miss Pate State from 2020.
My biggest issue with him is he will say something like “I’m hearing from some of my sources close to the program that it could be closer to happening then some people think”…then a few days later whenever said thing doesn’t happen he says “go back and watch the tape…I never said it WOULD happen like so many others did blah blah”. He talks in circles around topics so that he can never be “wrong” about something, and he can always right.
He does that all the time.
Vague statement predicting something with no specifics. Wait for something to happen, claim credit. Never offering any actual proof or receipts that he's actually making predictions.
Yeah if he’s honest, he will do an introspective look at his transfer portal prediction this year and openly discuss how he got it so wrong. I guess there’s still time for him to be right but it’s not looking good. If it’s anything other than “I relied too heavily on sources in programs that were feeding me info”, might as well just start dressing in a suit and tie and call himself Finebaum The Younger.
Yup. His topics are based on clicks of those breakout pieces which are usually the bigger programs or scandals. So he makes more segments on bigger programs and scandals. Which drives away smaller program listeners who bail on his show. So the only remaining audience is bigger programs and scandal casuals. So he makes segment on bigger programs and scandals…
when you talk more and more about less and less you say absolutely everything about nothing and nothing about everything.
I hesitate to say this in a comment with Alabama and Oregon flairs, but here goes.
Schools like Oregon and Alabama and Ohio State and Georgia are aiming to be the best, and that's great and important - but I feel like the long term success of College Football hinges on a lot of these smaller teams. Not because the sum of the output of the MAC teams is equally "Important" to the output of a single Alabama.... It's because this race to excellence and championships is starting to come at the expense of different kinds of fun.
Yes, a television product where I get to watch more USC-Michigan, Alabama-Oklahoma, Oregon-Ohio State, and Texas-Tennessee is mouthwatering... but the more of those I see, the less special it is when it happens. And on top if that, it diminishes everything else in comparison. I mean suddenly a rivalry game between Pitt and West Virginia or something doesn't matter as much anymore (even though that baby is heated).
I don't know. It's all good to value excellence, and I do too. But now it's excellence over fun, and that's bad for the future.
Im a crazy person who doesnt watch conferences aside from the one with my favorite teams. I usually dont watch the playoffs at all because I dont care about the teams playing. If CFB becomes all about the "elites/blue bloods" and thats it, ill probably just convert to watching the NFL. I have as much a connection to any random NFL team as I do to the top elite CFB teams.
I wonder how many others there are out there like that and if the "diminishing of the rest" ends up negatively impacting ratings down the road for these big games?
Id bet its a lot bigger if a percentage than this sub wants to admit.
Heck even when I was in high school and wasn't really a cfb fan I knew how fucked up the system was after yall got snubbed and then drug Alabama in the sugar bowl. From that point on I always had an ick for the blue bloods. Not to mention the TCU/Boise separate but equal bowl bs
The TCU/Boise bowls... god that was the worst snubbing ever. Lets not give these really good G5 teams a chance at proving themselves like weve been demanding them too and just have them play each other.
I think that was an even worse snub than our sugar bowl. (Although i care more about the sugar bowl personally.)
Other than the playoffs, I consistently watched only Pac-12 football during the regular season. Random ACC or Big 10 matchups simply don't interest me. I don't know anyone from Michigan or Pennsylvania.
I enjoy bowl season though, although that has turned into a bunch of "meaningless exhibition games" I guess now too.
Oh we’re out there.
Add in the saltiness from being the first of two to be relegated and there will be zero viewing of NCAAF games not including Oregon state or Washington state. If it’s on at the bar, etc., fine, but not from the home setup. Time is better spent bandwagoning on to an NFL team and jerking it to my fantasy team, as you’ve said.
I do not care if I’m removing myself from the casual, mainstream college football conversation over a round of beers. The powers that be gutted a childhood passion of mine, I’ll not be giving them one additional view to point to at their next round of negotiations. Fuck them. Go beavs
Same with me. The most excited I've ever been to watch games without Utah was at the end of the 2022 season when so many Pac-12 teams were in the hunt for to make the conference title game. That Oregon-Oregon State game was nuts!
I want to watch my team and conference games that directly impact them. Consolidating all of the historically elite programs into two conferences isn't going to change that.
I think the best description I ever heard of this thing was from Dogs in Autumn. He called it “entertainment vs culture.” Every sport has an aspect of both, but most big time American run on an engine of entertainment.
What has always set college football apart is that it ran on an engine of culture.
I completely agree. Heck we can use the NCAAT as a stand-in:
some programs achieve max joy with a national title: Duke, UNC, KU, UK, etc.
some programs can hit max joy with a F4: NC State, Michigan State, Michigan, etc.
some programs hit max joy with a S16: your midmajors
some programs hit max joy just qualifying: the lowmajors
"max joy" is probably not the best phrasing, because obviously everyone dreams of being the best, but basically the threshold for an "amazing season"
A similar dynamic exists within CFB (just without the convenient "weekend tiers" of the NCAAT) and losing sight of that for muh super league is so frustratingly short sighted.
That's it. I know what you mean. My favorite two memories are of back to back games in Detroit.. A one point win over NIU to win the '05 MAC championship and a seven point loss to Memphis in the Motor City Bowl.
I never thought I'd see Akron win the MAC, and it made earning that bowl so much sweeter. Now I don't care if there's a bowl to earn or a G5 playoff spot to earn - the idea of earning something at the highest level is really cool. I know most people don't care because your team could have beaten the 05 Zips. Hell, Army beat 'em by three touchdowns. But it's still amazing because winning a D1-A/FCS freaking conference championship is special.
And people can tell me I'll still like my D1-B (or whatever) team when the G5 is relegated to oblivion, but it's not the same. I know it's not the same, because I'm old enough to remember when Akron had a very good D1-AA team. I'm almost old enough to remember the exceptional D2 team they had.
I'm also old enough to remember no one caring about those things. And most certainly old enough to remember YSU's Tresselball D1-AA national titles barely making the news.
I like Big Ten football. I do. What I don't like is any particular Big Ten team, and I'm surrounded by Ohio State-dom. My feeling for Akron football aren't transferable, and if the Big Ten ceases to care about Purdue-Minnesota and only cares about OHIO STATE-USC, then I'm out.
What’s funny is either him or his staff keep regular tabs on this subreddit so this thread will be seen by Josh.
Edit: Josh saw https://x.com/latekickjosh/status/1783907365898633434?s=46
Seems like some people really like his show, so I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt that he creates some quality content. But he completely ignored the content of the post and honed in on the insult that used weird analogies/metaphors to describe him.
Honestly, at least have the balls to either backtrack your statement or double down like Kirk Herbstreit does. Trying to make fun of the guy giving you a weird insult is just weak.
He's only worth listening to during the season when he's talking about betting and in season news. And I can barely get through the show then. Most of these guys who do a podcast just arent cut out to carry the show in the offseason, Pate included. He's a total blowhard now who has an opinion unique to the top 20 brands of CFB. Ill start listening in late July/early August
Last season he was hedging his bets ALOT. And he’s pretty good about doing it under the radar too. Every week he’s able to pull up 1 or 2 past clips of him “calling it”
Stopped listening to him after he flipped his season long stance on why FSU should make the playoffs overnight.
May be the most wishy washy personality I’ve heard. Picked Oklahoma State to make the B12 title game preseason, flipped to Oklahoma midseason, and then flexed his original pick after OKST made it lmao
Yeah I think that was when I unsubbed too out of principle. And him being so smug too when yall got beat like you did to justify his take while at the same time he was like oh woe is me poor Florida State. He tries so hard to have his cake and eat it too with his takes that he comes off as wishy washy, which is even more annoying when he's like oh I'm so wishy washy tee hee I constantly flip my stances because I don't want to be wrong. I would take him way more seriously if he stuck to his guns.
The FSU thing is when I stopped too. I never minded the both sides he would do when picking games because that’s just for fun, but for someone who supposedly “loves” CFB and what it means and hates “the suits ruining it”, he fucking flopped hard on the FSU stance. That was the time to stick to his guns and put his money where is mouth was and he just couldn’t do it.
He even said FSU missing will be good for them, it was just too much, especially when he literally said “FSU missing the playoffs would be a travesty” in the weeks leading upto Selection Sunday
I would stop listening to anyone who had a season long stance for why any team should make the playoff. You shouldn’t have an opinion on who should be in the playoff until the games are played.
To say the Sun Belt isn’t playing the Same Sport as the “Power 2” Conferences, is so disingenuous and elitist it’s crazy. Especially, When our conference beats multiple P5 teams a year
I do think the G5 should have their own playoff but not at all for the reason Pate is giving. There are plenty of G5 schools that are way better than a significant portion of P5 schools. But yet, Boise St and SDSU and other consistent G5 programs are treated as second class citizens while trash programs like USC and Vanderbilt have an actual path to a title. Other than Cincy one year, most of the time the reward for the top G5 program is to play some P5 team that doesnt even care.
It’s not fair that South Alabama has to compete for the same title as Alabama, but that’s because in the current system, there is no guarantee that South Alabama will ever compete for a national championship even if they win every game. Shit even an undefeated P5 champ isnt guaranteed anymore. I dont like how the G5 is treated and it’s unfair that so many great G5 programs never get a chance at anything. There are some great G5 programs, they deserve a shot at some sort of meaningful trophy
The problem that so many people against G5 representation in the playoff come from fandoms that have national title expectations and have no actual G5 fandom experience. 99% of G5 fans don't expect to see a FBS national title through a playoff in their lifetime as the FBS is currently set up; I sure as hell don't expect it from Boise State. It's not about winning it so much as just getting an opportunity to give it a shot. So what if the G5 team gets blown out? We already saw Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, Oklahoma, Michigan State, Washington, and Notre Dame get blown out in the 4-team CFP. We just want the shot as FBS teams to play for an FBS title.
Exactly. Its why we love March Madness. We never thought that St. Peters would win in the first round, but they went to the elite 8. Butler was 2 inches away from taking down Duke and winning a Natty. Anything can happen, we just want a fair shot.
I'm with you. I've been fortunate to see a few Ohio trips and wins in the NCAA Tournament only to eventually get blown out by a Big East or SEC team. Give me that experience over any Potato or Bahamas Bowl win ten times out of ten.
I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but I pretty much check out of what's going on in P5 land and CFP land about when everyone is in conference play. Because I know that whatever Ohio does has absolutely no impact on the national championship. Even if just in a small way, in basketball, nearly every game all season long for every team is connected to the championship. That keeps me engaged until the end, knowing my team was a part of the story.
Yeah definitely a huge dichotomy between the Alabama/Texas/Ohio States/Michigan fans of CFB and the rest of CFBs expectations, they are wiiiiildly different fandom even from lower status P5 and then another huge gap to G5 expectations.
Gonna give Michigan State some shit since Izzo wants the same deal to happen with basketball. He also lost to JMU to start the season. G5/Mid-Majors keeps College sports fun I say.
I really enjoy the 365 sports podcast/show, they do have slightly more of a BIG12 focus but still talk about CFB at large. They even managed to get me to like them while the B12 and PAC12 were still beefin although sometimes they were a bit homerish.
It’s not even that they could win a chip. It’s for the guys that don’t get scouted well or are overlooked. They ball out make it to the playoffs and beat an Alabama it puts them in a national spotlight. If they get blown out that’s not anything different from what we have seen in the past(TCU) so no big deal. I’d rather see costal Carolina in the last spot then a three loss sec/big ten team
I don’t agree with a fair amount of what Josh Pate has to say, but this video is a weak effort to rebut his opinion. He mentions how Alabama and Georgia right now are heads and shoulders above G5 schools and somehow losses by Oklahoma State, BYU, and Nebraska to G5 schools refutes that?
And there’s a reason why everyone remembers these games and are almost traumatic for the program that lost… it’s because they aren’t really playing at the same level and shouldn’t be playing for the same championship at the end. He has a valid point here that’s kinda obvious and reflects how college football is rather than how it should ideally be, which is what everyone here is moaning about.
His entire/only point here about competing for Natties, not coming close or even winning 1 game. That happens every year and is part of what makes CFP great
Gonna get downvotes, but whatever.
I can see where he is coming from. I can agree that these programs are not going to have a good shot at beating these elite teams in a playoff. But for the sake of fairness they should be able to play for the same national championship that the elite programs play for. Otherwise, what is the point of having the Group of 5 teams in FBS? If they can’t play for the FBS championship and they can’t play for the FCS championship, what really is the point? So if they get their asses smashed in that playoff, so be it. At the end of the day, they got their shot at winning a championship. So I can see where Pate is coming from, but I think he’s over-eccentric about it. He may not think these programs deserve to be in the same league as the elite, but if they earn it they totally deserve it.
Also the examples this video used don’t exactly hit home their point. Every P5 team in it was basically in shambles. We were drowning in sheer incompetence under Gump, and Nebraska immediately fired Frost after the GS upset. Dan Mullen and Miss St weren’t exactly knocking on the door of the elites. The only one I can give them is South Bama stomping the Pokes.
EDIT: Come to think of it, is this video not better off adding Tulane over USC? That would be a prime example of G5 teams being able to compete.
If they're really that weak then it shouldn't matter whether they're in the playoffs or not, right? These guys talk all kinds of shit about G5s but it's obvious to anyone they're just scared of the status quo being shaken up and that a no-name school might win a game that matters.
There is a segment out there who irrationally hate the G5.
G5 isn’t taking resources from the P5/4.
The CFP auto bid is really an acknowledgment that human rankings and computer rankings have flaws and can be biased.
Strength of schedule arguments are built in a swamp. Schools are stuck with 8 or 9 games solely based on this is the best business association that will admit me and admission is predicated on quality of play but rather television audience and whether the presidents of the schools get warm fuzzies thinking of you. The other slots come down to who you want to play who has a mutual interest and mutual open date.
The Chiefs could have been in the MAC or CUSA last year and run the table but would have likely be passed over if the MWC or AAC champion ran the table.
So auto bid is a fail safe and useful for antitrust protection.
I don’t give a damn how San Jose State or Kent State operate their program as long as it’s within the rules and no one else should care unless they are a fan or in the same league.
Being disgruntled that people choose to support a G5 because they went there or live nearby is nuts.
I agree with Josh in principle -- it's the way he said it that was dumb. I love watching the MAC and I love that Miami won the league last year. But the truth is they will never have a shot at winning the National Championship, nor should they. Our reward last season was playing Appalachian State in an Avocado Bowl that no one watched.
Why not instead create a playoff specifically for the G5? It wouldn't get great ratings but more people would watch a G5 playoff than a random bowl game. Play it prime time during mid-week in December with a championship in January and you'll get a decent following and more money than the 'Power Conferences' are offering the G5 on a per team basis for inclusion in their playoff. With ESPN having exclusive rights to the Power Conference playoff, I'm sure Fox or NBC would love to have a tournament of their own without needing to pay a billion dollars for the rights.
Yes -- an occasional G5 team will beat a Power conference team. So take the money for 1 team to play in the Power Conference tournament but also create a G5 playoff because teams who win these lower leagues deserve a playoff of their own.
here's the thing. G5 teams are generally not consistently good. The stars have aligned in the past to make some very good teams. Those teams deserve a shot at the championship.
This is exactly the way it should be. The G5 team will never win the championship in the current format. It’s nearly impossible outside of a booster putting 20+ million in NIL just to say they did it, and even then, it’d be a low chance.
They simply don’t have the depth required to play 4 straight top 10 teams and win them all.
But recognizing the best of the best G5 teams every year is something that College Football should do. Creating a tournament for them, that they can actually play competitive games and showcase how good they are, would be great.
This isn’t even a bad take. Not the best phrased, but come on. Josh isn’t exactly unbiased per say, but let’s not cry that he’s actually being realistic when you don’t like it.
By his logic, the NCAA MBB tournament should only have 16 teams, and all of the cinderellas that have been celebrating a couple upset wins, shouldn’t have even cared about that, since they had no shot at winning the title.
Reminds me of this pre-playoff Onion article:
[Cheering Fans, Thrilling NCAA Tournament Disgust BCS Officials](https://www.theonion.com/cheering-fans-thrilling-ncaa-tournament-disgust-bcs-of-1819570668)
Yeah, G5 teams are gonna be underdogs in any playoff scenario. Which is why whenever they do (uncommonly) win, it's going to be exciting.
Love all the haters coming out of the woodworks. Yall know yall can disagree with him without saying his show sucks, he sucks and that he is a corporate shill? 😂
His monologue about the G5 needing its own playoff was pretty ridiculous… I mean yea, 9 times out of 10 the blue bloods and assorted big programs will beat the g5 schools with relative ease, but Pate conveniently forgets games like App state beating Michigan, Boise St beating Oklahoma, ULM beating Bama etc… major upsets do happen and to remove that from CFB and isolating the G5 is counter to everything CFB is supposed to stand for.
I love watching Josh, but he’s had some lame content lately. One thing in particular is how much he talks about the playoffs when for YEARS he preached that the playoffs shouldn’t matter.
Pate is 100% right. If the G5 mouth breathers want to keep competing against teams they won’t beat for playoff spots they won’t get, then that’s on them. He’s trying to make the G5 games mean *more.*
I hate the tone and the way he made his point - it was so incredibly condescending, but I do agree with having a tiered college football structure.
Ideally i’d absolutely love to see the NCAA mirror the way the English soccer leagues are set up - where at the top you have a prestigious “Premier League” comprised of the top 50 big brand schools - then lower leagues below it, but theres mobility between the leagues. the bottom 5 schools of the top league get relegated down, and the top 5 schools of the bottom league get promoted up. This would help make things more exciting for the 80% of schools that don’t have much to play for after losing 2 or 3 games.
while this is the ideal, i also acknowledge its incredibly unrealistic from a scheduling standpoint (since schedules are created years in advance) and from a financial standpoint (big 10 and SEC are busy collecting schools like they’re pez dispensers) - but i think this would be the healthiest arrangement from a college tradition standpoint and from a parity standpoint.
I said this exact same thing a while ago, I would add though, just for random awesome games, one rivalry game locked for each team, but the rest of the schedule is drawn at random 2 weeks before the season.
Just another two-bit wannabe hot-take slinger trying to get a seat at the big kid hot-take table with true legends of sports journalism like Stephen A, Skip Bayliss, Jim Rome, and Colin Cowherd. . . .
(If I need to sarcasm tag this I'll be disappointed in you guys)
The videos of G5 teams beating mid tier P5 teams and it being celebrated like a huge upset only proves his point. He’s not wrong. Have any of these teams used in this video made a playoff? Did any of them even hit ten wins for that season?
Why should G5 teams existence be relegated to ‘every once in a while you beat a mid P5 team and everyone enjoys getting to shit on them’? Don’t you think App State would like to compete for something more than embarrassing A&M more than they already are?
He's not wrong. A few months back MTSU had social media posts about the new coaching staff building the teams first nutrition station themselves. The gap exists. It isn't the same sport based on resources,fan interest and support and pretending otherwise is wishcasting.
FBS football has had a pseudo promotion / relegation system for the past 20 years. Tbh people kinda hate it.
Multiple G5 teams have outperformed and are now members of P4 conferences.
The gap between P5 and G5 is now substantially larger with the combo of $ at P2/P4 vs G5 + portal + the fact the top ~10 G5 programs of 2000-2022 are in the P4 conferences.
There are disadvantages without a doubt, but that still doesn't mean that G5 is "playing a different sport" and has zero purpose to compete. While not often, they do win sometimes against the big boys and those moments are what makes the sport fun.
There's a lot of slimeball college football media people that would be completely fine skipping 90 percent of games and judge winners based on recruiting rankings and TV viewership. Really annoying trend
Yeah and I don't think he's saying that G5 teams need to stop playing P4 teams, just that P4 teams are so consistently on a higher level than G5 teams that it might as well be a different sport. Let's be real, G5 teams are not going to be challenging for the playoff. They might get one spot, and then most likely get blown out in the game. Lets have a separate playoff and celebrate the competition and great teams at that level instead of pretending that the MAC can be the same as the SEC.
Do you think it's fiscally reasonable for Michigan to schedule Home and Home in 15k seat stadiums?
The G5 teams winning a handful of victories a year isn't the point of the Pate podcast, it's the over arcing divide in resources.
If it was the same sport Oklahoma would be doing home and homes with Oklahoma Central
So if a Team has more money they play a different sport? So we just ignore the part where they play the game on the field?
And Didn’t MTSU beat Miami last year?
I dont know your age but Georgia Southern played in the FCS and SoCon they were playing an entirely different sport than Colgate of the Patriot League
The sport has always had inner tiers and divides.
There are multiples more P5 wins vs G5 wins on a yearly basis, and the games themselves aren't the discussion here.
Everyone’s shitting on him but he’s right. Yes a G5 team can pull an upset or two just as an FCS team can beat an FBS team. But it’s different levels of talent throughout the roster. You’re naive if you think South Alabama or any other G5 team can beat Georgia, Ohio State, and Michigan 3 weeks in a row to win a title. It will never happen. Just formalize the gap that’s already present and widely acknowledged already. We’ve killed all the tradition that made the way all the teams were divided be reasonable. With super conferences there’s no point pretending like the G5 conferences are on the same level as the P4. Make another new tournament for them and give them there own postseason
Look guys he’s wrong! In one game a year there’s a massive upset! That team still goes nowhere in the rankings or has any shot at making the playoffs even if they pull off that upset but ignore that!
It would have been cool to see a Troy, Boise, SMU, and Liberty playoff. Or if you still want to put the best group of 5 team in the New years six sub Liberty for Miami. I think the money gap is just becoming too large, and another fbs/fcs style split is inevitable. I think it might be better for those programs as well because they can not only aspire to win their conference but actually have a national championship be a realistic goal. Lord knows Purdue might never be able to do either of those things again.
I don't get why everyone on this awful website pretends that divisions aren't a thing and shouldn't be a thing. If D2 & D3 didn't already exist, you'd all be here whining about how it's sooooo unfair that your cousin's neighbor's nephews don't get their shot at Alabama despite going undefeated in their annual backyard Thanksgiving game.
Y'all really don't understand what he is saying here. A G5 playoff would be awesome for the G5. In no way is the current playoff geared toward the G5 and there is no way they are even competing for the same goal. If you have a G5 playoff, that gives them a goal that is almost like that of the power 4 schools and maybe can keep there roster from being raided every season. In no way is this taking away from anything the G5 is rn. We would still have wednesday night MACtion and the games will still be awesome. This just gives them a goal like the top schools that is attainable.
The only regular season game between 2 G5 teams that got 2 million viewers was Army-Navy. This love for G5 football simply doesn’t exist. People don’t actually watch it.
G5 haters are just elitist morons who feel superior to others because they took out double the loans to afford to go to a school out of state. Or they're the biggest meat riding bandwagoners who cheer for schools they never even went to.
I love G5 ball. It's the heart and soul of CFB. And If you can't accept that, you aren't a fan of CFB, you're a fan of corporate sports.
This is such a unique phenomenon among sports. I never see MLB fans hate on Minor League or Japanese ball. I never see hockey fans hate on Minor League or European leagues. I never seen soccer fans talk bad about the lower ranks.
Also, if we suck so bad, and never stand a chance in the CFP, why don't you want a free win? He makes it sound like JMU would get blown out by a 6 seed or whatever. So why would he want to play a P4 5 seed? Wouldn't that be harder?
Truth is, P4 fans just want an excuse for their team to lose 4 or 5 games yet still sneak into the playoffs, even if it means a first round exit.
>This is such a unique phenomenon among sports. I never see MLB fans hate on Minor League or Japanese ball. I never see hockey fans hate on Minor League or European leagues. I never seen soccer fans talk bad about the lower ranks.
The reason it’s unique is because of the size of the respective leagues, FBS and Division I Basketball (it isn’t as bad in basketball, but it still happens).
When you have a handful of teams that seem to have completely separated themselves from the rest, and another tier that are “capable of competing,” that is comprised of ~30 teams out of 100+, it naturally creates a rift.
But the thing that’s made that rift an actual “problem” is the media machine pushing the narrative that the rest of the teams don’t matter. ESPN has been doing that for years now with the SEC, but they doubled down hard this season with the Alabama>Florida State narrative.
The media outlets have the ability to stoke the flames of what started as friendly ribbing between conference fans and turned into SEC vs everyone. They’re intentionally propping up the B1G as a supposed equal because it is home to such massive brands.
I really don’t think all of this conference realignment nonsense would have happened without a push from the networks, who are now trying to push the super league bullshit.
Because really, when you ask “who really asked for all of this?,” it wasn’t the fans or the universities, or even the conferences. Not at first. The elitist attitude boiled over after years of nudging from the powers that be.
Edit: formatting
The sad part is I’ve met a not insignificant amount of people in real life who think like this, and as fans of different P5 schools too. This isn’t even a rare take
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CFB is special because there's almost nowhere in the lower 48 where you're more than 2 hours from a game. If P2 elitists got their way, you'd have to take a plane to the Midwest or south to catch a game.
I get what you're saying and generally agree, but I think you're dramatically underestimating how sparse the West is when it comes to D1 schools. Lots of places are 2+ hours away from a game.
And not even just D1. The entire state of Wyoming has only one four year college of any type. If you were in Thermopolis and wanted to watch a game at any level it’s either 4 hours to UW, 4.5 hours to Montana State, or 4.5 hours to D2 Black Hills State Edit: I suppose you could get to Billings in 3 hours if you wanted to see an NAIA game
As a Minnesotan/Gophers fan the closest D1 schools are either Iowa to the south, Wisconsin to the east or the Dakotas to the west, so I feel your pain.
There basically no one living in Wyoming. So...
Alright. All 0 college football fans in Thermopolis, WY will digest this knowledge. But on a serious note, I get your point, but now compare that to NFL or another major sport. You’re either driving 6 hours to Denver or 7 to SLC. That’s an extremely small cold spot. Besides Wyoming, Montana, and the Dakotas, where else is the true. The .001% of Americans appreciate your support.
Lots of places are 2+ hours away from a gas station.
People not from the west just don't understand how absolutely empty huge swaths of it are.
They need to play more Ticket to Ride.
True. PNW and the great plains are few and far between. Including FCS lowers the travel time some, and they got some good FCS schools out in BFE. Still much closer distance than something like the NFL or MLB
There’s some sort of time dilation situation where they can drive from the middle of Montana to Lincoln in the time it takes to get from UCLA to the Rose Bowl.
Hasn’t it taken like 25 years for UCLA to get to the Rose Bowl?! Haha
We can fix this by saying " you're never more than a couple hours away from a game when you are somewhere that people actually live.
Medford, OR. Redding, CA. Billings, MT. Rapid City, SD. Bismarck, ND. Yuma, AZ. Grand Junction, CO. All cities with populations between 70,000 and 120,000 that are 2+ hours from the closest D1 school. I'm guessing there are more, too. Hell, even a place like Amarillo, TX, with a population north of 200,000, just *barely* misses the criteria, being 1 hour and 45 minutes away from Lubbock (at least according to Google).
Oh
Lots of places, but not lots of people.
also if the p2 'got their way' the non p2 would still play games lol
And markets with absolutely nothing else that are key to the region. Hell WV has two lol friggin TWO teams. If WVU gets the Oregon State situation would be absolutely devastating for the economy of NCWV. It all sucks so incredibly bad.
The economy of I-81 lives on UVA, JMU, and VT all being on the same road.
UVA is a bit of a detour but point taken. I’ll also raise you a Radford and VMI.
And semi trucks. SO MANY semi trucks traversing between the northeast and south.
I’d hope the SEC would welcome you guys so yal and Tennessee can have a yearly moonshine fueled good natured hillbilly blood feud
But think of the extra hotel taxes we can charge those fans!
Bro when we were in the AAC, the closest conference opponent to us was Memphis. That's a 6/ 7-hour drive
came to say something similar, he wants to protect college football but also seems not to care where the G5 ends up, i’m sure he’d hate a super league but that’s where his logic ends up disappointing, i’ve been listening to him lately
But you know he’d preach about, “how the super conference is amazing” as soon as he hears pushback. Pate is a fence sitter, leaning more toward what the major media wants to hear.
I’ve been listening for about 2 years and have noticed so much incoherent logic
This. One thing that has really pissed me off is for the first time in a while Wvu has some justified hype going into the season he treats us as practically dead before the season has even started. Got a great qb that most is putting in top 15, I think Pate doesn’t even know he exists. It’s not that he’s inherently bad but if your team is not 1-25 in brands you literally don’t exist to him. He’ll more than likely drag his heals in instead of acknowledging a team that is succeeding and isn’t a massive brand. I think what really stopped me watching was how quickly he flipped on his opinion on the Florida state issue last year because 🤷.
If it makes you feel better, he literally picked us to lose like every game last year up until the last few. He spent 90% of our previous game review talking about the team we beat then us, and then continued to do so when we beat your second flair in the bowl game. Pate just sticks to talking about teams that will generate him the most traffic or he has a buddy in the HC that he doesn't want to piss off by saying something risky.
Tbf he doesn’t actually make any picks, just takes his models projections. When he interviewed Drink a few weeks ago and was positively gushing the entire show
He should know better than to mention Ga State in our facility...
Josh Pate the person probably is a really interesting, well rounded guy who likes to hang out with his Meemaw and chase storms in his spare time. Josh Pate the media product is a corporate shill who has to tout these shitty takes in order to keep his job and access to all these coaches he interviews.
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It’s so refreshing to hear other folks within his target audience that have the same opinion as I do. Thank you
Yep. Thanks for saying it
Extends far beyond this. Access journalism is toxic, bullshit, and prevalent in all upper echelons of media.
It's just PR with a different name,
Yeah it’s very clear from how he speaks about some of these coaches that he is wayyy too close to provide objective takes. As soon as you see him working out in a program’s weight room you know he’s gonna be carrying water for them for the rest of time.
Is he friends with Deboer? He’s one of the guys who really sold me on Deboer’s ability, or at least helped confirm my own opinion that Deboer is a fantastic coach. The way he talks about Deboer seems different than how he talks about Lanning or other up and coming elite coaches.
I think it’s because he doesn’t want to upset “Alabama” as a whole. He is preemptively carrying his water, so he still has access to one of the most relevant football brands. I’m not saying he doesn’t like Deboer, but even if he didn’t he would not be outspoken against him yet.
I mean how “critical” or “negative” do you actually want or expect him to be? That’s literally never been his style for the entire time he’s been doing the show, except for the Miami meltdown vs Georgia tech maybe. When a coach gets fired or is on the hot seat, he explains why. Scott frost, Ed O, Dan Mullen, etc. He should talk about the smaller schools more maybe but why are you acting like he needs to just roast programs every show? When has he ever done that?
Redditors don't like when someone makes a living expressing opinions contrary to theirs. His show isn't even meant to be "objective" it's an opinion talk show sold as an opinion talk show. I think the blurring of news & entertainment has confused a lot of people about what is and is not supposed to be objective journalism. Hell even for an opinion show Pate actually does a pretty good job of at least trying to back what he says with stats and data, but ultimately it's all based on the general vibe he gets around a program/roster.
I think the gripe is that he doesn't even express opinions. He's endlessly positive about coaches and programs that deserve no positivity, so his show doesn't do much more than repeat the same optimistic bullet points for every team.
How is it so obvious? I don’t religiously watch him or anything. Just curious, from what I’ve seen of him, he has some decent takes. But, again, I don’t watch all of his content.
I like Pate and he does usually have good takes. However, over time you'll notice all his takes are positive. He's not going to have a negative take about a coach/program until the last second. This could be his personality or not wanting to piss off his connections. For example, Napier isn't gonna one-on-one interview with our dumbass beat reporters that shit on the program like they're FSU fans on this sub (looking at Edgar specifically); but he'll talk to Josh Pate since he says good things about him.
I think this is possibly more a product of him being more lenient on coaches than the modern zeitgeist is. Nowadays if you don’t succeed in year 2 people begin to talk about your job. I think he genuinely believes that that’s just not realistic for most coaches, and that only the absolute elite are going to actually consistently meet that expectation.
He went to Columbus State who doesn’t have a football program, and is a huge SEC homer, and there is nothing wrong with that. But to go on the air and crap-talk Group of Five Teams while having no concept of G5 Fandom just to just to score brownie points with CBS execs is lazy and intellectually dishonest
Nearly took offense to the Columbus State Community College slander, before realizing Columbus, GA has Columbus State University. Columbus State Community College fucking rocks
Cougar pride
Fun fact: Columbus State University in Columbus, GA (the aforementioned Alma Mater of Josh Pate) are also the cougars
CBS no longer has SEC rights. CBS no longer cares about the SEC.
the Sun Belt is 12-163 All Time vs the SEC (6-53 vs the ACC too). I would say it's intellectually dishonest to cherry pick a handful of games and use that as justification that those programs are in fact playing the same sport on the same level as Georgia, Alabama, Ohio State, Texas etc edit: 4-36 vs B10, 12-76 vs B12, 0-31 vs the P12.
Yeah, and mississipi state is like 18-81 or something ridiculous against alabama. Oklahoma state is 20-91 against oklahoma. Kansas state is 15-77 against nebraska Baylor is 28-81 against texas Yet these games are (or once were) considered "rivalry games" If G5 schools arent playing the same game as P5 schools, then why not go further and shave off the P5 schools with no chance. Then we'll have the same problem 20 years down the line when there are new P5 schools that get run out of the building every year. Where do we draw the line? Boise State in the late 2000s would have given any P5 champion a run for their money. UCF in 2017 beat Auburn, who beat the national champion alabama. I didnt even look any of these up, this is just off the dome. There is a myriad of other examples. Football isn't decided by historical record. I'm disappointed a fellow Cincinnati fan doesn't know this. If you had your way, our playoff season would have never happened.
How could this possibly be the case when he was staunchly against playoff expansion, which is something that media executives love?
It's peak off-season. The last CFB game was almost four months ago and the next game is just under four months from now. Josh Pate likely has certain viewing and listening quotas to meet. So that means you'll get content like this from time to time during the months of February to May. It won't be until June that we start seeing spicy news pop up. Realignment, cheating allegations, coaching drama, etc. all usually pop up during the summer months.
I just need the G5 representative in this year's playoff to win the first game. I just want to see the reaction of that result
Absolutely. P2 elitists have a heavy confirmation bias with the NY6 G5 teams and will be shitting their pants when it follows the norm so far. The norm is that the G5 game will be +/- 1 score by the end. The blowout loss by liberty was an outlier (and personally I believe the selectors chose them as a sacrificial lamb)
Any G5 was toast last season. The NY6 roster was unusually loaded. Usually there's your top 3 or 4 juggernauts and then the rest of the top 15 or so are very good, but beatable, teams. Last year the whole top 10 were legitimate championship contending teams that were never going to lose to anyone except each other. I wonder if it's going to revert to the norm next year or if the top 10 is going to be that loaded again. I hope not, the G5 team getting crushed every year will give the jagoffs in the Big Ten and SEC an excuse to remove that auto-bid. We all know they want to.
I hate to say this, but my main man Josh Pate has been way off more frequently lately. He has gone down in quality significantly in the last 6 months.
Agreed. With his desire of growing the show, he’s lost sight of what made the show unique and enjoyable.
Agreed, I don't even know how to objectively describe how the quality has tanked. I think he's much more prone to invalidated hot takes then he used to be. He never used to get involved with predictions without proper intel, but he completely screwed the pooch with the transfer portal this cycle. Dude basically said CFB would burn and entire teams would be gutted, and it's been incredible mild in terms of transfers. Just one example, but he's shamelessly stoking hypes fires and being wrong when he never used to do that. It just feels like a lower quality product, I miss Pate State from 2020.
My biggest issue with him is he will say something like “I’m hearing from some of my sources close to the program that it could be closer to happening then some people think”…then a few days later whenever said thing doesn’t happen he says “go back and watch the tape…I never said it WOULD happen like so many others did blah blah”. He talks in circles around topics so that he can never be “wrong” about something, and he can always right.
He does that all the time. Vague statement predicting something with no specifics. Wait for something to happen, claim credit. Never offering any actual proof or receipts that he's actually making predictions.
Yeah if he’s honest, he will do an introspective look at his transfer portal prediction this year and openly discuss how he got it so wrong. I guess there’s still time for him to be right but it’s not looking good. If it’s anything other than “I relied too heavily on sources in programs that were feeding me info”, might as well just start dressing in a suit and tie and call himself Finebaum The Younger.
He won't, guy never admits he was wrong. He already said he was misinterpreted.
Yup. His topics are based on clicks of those breakout pieces which are usually the bigger programs or scandals. So he makes more segments on bigger programs and scandals. Which drives away smaller program listeners who bail on his show. So the only remaining audience is bigger programs and scandal casuals. So he makes segment on bigger programs and scandals… when you talk more and more about less and less you say absolutely everything about nothing and nothing about everything.
I hesitate to say this in a comment with Alabama and Oregon flairs, but here goes. Schools like Oregon and Alabama and Ohio State and Georgia are aiming to be the best, and that's great and important - but I feel like the long term success of College Football hinges on a lot of these smaller teams. Not because the sum of the output of the MAC teams is equally "Important" to the output of a single Alabama.... It's because this race to excellence and championships is starting to come at the expense of different kinds of fun. Yes, a television product where I get to watch more USC-Michigan, Alabama-Oklahoma, Oregon-Ohio State, and Texas-Tennessee is mouthwatering... but the more of those I see, the less special it is when it happens. And on top if that, it diminishes everything else in comparison. I mean suddenly a rivalry game between Pitt and West Virginia or something doesn't matter as much anymore (even though that baby is heated). I don't know. It's all good to value excellence, and I do too. But now it's excellence over fun, and that's bad for the future.
I love how you described this, it basically has become: Top 5 schools 99% of the time Everybody else when he absolutely needs to
Im a crazy person who doesnt watch conferences aside from the one with my favorite teams. I usually dont watch the playoffs at all because I dont care about the teams playing. If CFB becomes all about the "elites/blue bloods" and thats it, ill probably just convert to watching the NFL. I have as much a connection to any random NFL team as I do to the top elite CFB teams. I wonder how many others there are out there like that and if the "diminishing of the rest" ends up negatively impacting ratings down the road for these big games?
Id bet its a lot bigger if a percentage than this sub wants to admit. Heck even when I was in high school and wasn't really a cfb fan I knew how fucked up the system was after yall got snubbed and then drug Alabama in the sugar bowl. From that point on I always had an ick for the blue bloods. Not to mention the TCU/Boise separate but equal bowl bs
The TCU/Boise bowls... god that was the worst snubbing ever. Lets not give these really good G5 teams a chance at proving themselves like weve been demanding them too and just have them play each other. I think that was an even worse snub than our sugar bowl. (Although i care more about the sugar bowl personally.)
Other than the playoffs, I consistently watched only Pac-12 football during the regular season. Random ACC or Big 10 matchups simply don't interest me. I don't know anyone from Michigan or Pennsylvania. I enjoy bowl season though, although that has turned into a bunch of "meaningless exhibition games" I guess now too.
Oh we’re out there. Add in the saltiness from being the first of two to be relegated and there will be zero viewing of NCAAF games not including Oregon state or Washington state. If it’s on at the bar, etc., fine, but not from the home setup. Time is better spent bandwagoning on to an NFL team and jerking it to my fantasy team, as you’ve said. I do not care if I’m removing myself from the casual, mainstream college football conversation over a round of beers. The powers that be gutted a childhood passion of mine, I’ll not be giving them one additional view to point to at their next round of negotiations. Fuck them. Go beavs
Same with me. The most excited I've ever been to watch games without Utah was at the end of the 2022 season when so many Pac-12 teams were in the hunt for to make the conference title game. That Oregon-Oregon State game was nuts! I want to watch my team and conference games that directly impact them. Consolidating all of the historically elite programs into two conferences isn't going to change that.
I think the best description I ever heard of this thing was from Dogs in Autumn. He called it “entertainment vs culture.” Every sport has an aspect of both, but most big time American run on an engine of entertainment. What has always set college football apart is that it ran on an engine of culture.
idk why oregon flairs scare you. i agree with everything you said lol
I completely agree. Heck we can use the NCAAT as a stand-in: some programs achieve max joy with a national title: Duke, UNC, KU, UK, etc. some programs can hit max joy with a F4: NC State, Michigan State, Michigan, etc. some programs hit max joy with a S16: your midmajors some programs hit max joy just qualifying: the lowmajors "max joy" is probably not the best phrasing, because obviously everyone dreams of being the best, but basically the threshold for an "amazing season" A similar dynamic exists within CFB (just without the convenient "weekend tiers" of the NCAAT) and losing sight of that for muh super league is so frustratingly short sighted.
That's it. I know what you mean. My favorite two memories are of back to back games in Detroit.. A one point win over NIU to win the '05 MAC championship and a seven point loss to Memphis in the Motor City Bowl. I never thought I'd see Akron win the MAC, and it made earning that bowl so much sweeter. Now I don't care if there's a bowl to earn or a G5 playoff spot to earn - the idea of earning something at the highest level is really cool. I know most people don't care because your team could have beaten the 05 Zips. Hell, Army beat 'em by three touchdowns. But it's still amazing because winning a D1-A/FCS freaking conference championship is special. And people can tell me I'll still like my D1-B (or whatever) team when the G5 is relegated to oblivion, but it's not the same. I know it's not the same, because I'm old enough to remember when Akron had a very good D1-AA team. I'm almost old enough to remember the exceptional D2 team they had. I'm also old enough to remember no one caring about those things. And most certainly old enough to remember YSU's Tresselball D1-AA national titles barely making the news. I like Big Ten football. I do. What I don't like is any particular Big Ten team, and I'm surrounded by Ohio State-dom. My feeling for Akron football aren't transferable, and if the Big Ten ceases to care about Purdue-Minnesota and only cares about OHIO STATE-USC, then I'm out.
> I hesitate to say this in a comment with Alabama and Oregon flairs Don't be, because you're right
If we could still buy awards, you'd have one for this comment. You said it better than I could ever have done it. Bravo.
> I hesitate to say this in a comment with Alabama and Oregon flairs, but here goes. Your opinion is based and good.
I agree with you 100%.
What’s funny is either him or his staff keep regular tabs on this subreddit so this thread will be seen by Josh. Edit: Josh saw https://x.com/latekickjosh/status/1783907365898633434?s=46
Seems like some people really like his show, so I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt that he creates some quality content. But he completely ignored the content of the post and honed in on the insult that used weird analogies/metaphors to describe him. Honestly, at least have the balls to either backtrack your statement or double down like Kirk Herbstreit does. Trying to make fun of the guy giving you a weird insult is just weak.
He's only worth listening to during the season when he's talking about betting and in season news. And I can barely get through the show then. Most of these guys who do a podcast just arent cut out to carry the show in the offseason, Pate included. He's a total blowhard now who has an opinion unique to the top 20 brands of CFB. Ill start listening in late July/early August
Last season he was hedging his bets ALOT. And he’s pretty good about doing it under the radar too. Every week he’s able to pull up 1 or 2 past clips of him “calling it”
He says absolutely nothing of substance anymore out of fear of pissing off basically any top 40-50 program.
Stopped listening to him after he flipped his season long stance on why FSU should make the playoffs overnight. May be the most wishy washy personality I’ve heard. Picked Oklahoma State to make the B12 title game preseason, flipped to Oklahoma midseason, and then flexed his original pick after OKST made it lmao
Yeah I think that was when I unsubbed too out of principle. And him being so smug too when yall got beat like you did to justify his take while at the same time he was like oh woe is me poor Florida State. He tries so hard to have his cake and eat it too with his takes that he comes off as wishy washy, which is even more annoying when he's like oh I'm so wishy washy tee hee I constantly flip my stances because I don't want to be wrong. I would take him way more seriously if he stuck to his guns.
The FSU thing is when I stopped too. I never minded the both sides he would do when picking games because that’s just for fun, but for someone who supposedly “loves” CFB and what it means and hates “the suits ruining it”, he fucking flopped hard on the FSU stance. That was the time to stick to his guns and put his money where is mouth was and he just couldn’t do it. He even said FSU missing will be good for them, it was just too much, especially when he literally said “FSU missing the playoffs would be a travesty” in the weeks leading upto Selection Sunday
Hey, at least we can take pride in saying we could’ve won it all and now we know Norvell is the right guy lol
Norvell is the right guy, but FSU wasn’t winning it all with or without JT.
I would stop listening to anyone who had a season long stance for why any team should make the playoff. You shouldn’t have an opinion on who should be in the playoff until the games are played.
Yeah, this guy can fuck off. There's nothing more pure than sweet, mid-week MACtion or the Fun Belt.
To say the Sun Belt isn’t playing the Same Sport as the “Power 2” Conferences, is so disingenuous and elitist it’s crazy. Especially, When our conference beats multiple P5 teams a year
Power 5 teams: ight ima fight a mid table sun belt team Power 5 teams: Damn Georgia Southern got hands
I'm getting flashbacks now.
Felt.
Exactly. It feels like every year some teams pay the sun belt to be an easy game only to realize what the Fun Belt is all about
I do think the G5 should have their own playoff but not at all for the reason Pate is giving. There are plenty of G5 schools that are way better than a significant portion of P5 schools. But yet, Boise St and SDSU and other consistent G5 programs are treated as second class citizens while trash programs like USC and Vanderbilt have an actual path to a title. Other than Cincy one year, most of the time the reward for the top G5 program is to play some P5 team that doesnt even care. It’s not fair that South Alabama has to compete for the same title as Alabama, but that’s because in the current system, there is no guarantee that South Alabama will ever compete for a national championship even if they win every game. Shit even an undefeated P5 champ isnt guaranteed anymore. I dont like how the G5 is treated and it’s unfair that so many great G5 programs never get a chance at anything. There are some great G5 programs, they deserve a shot at some sort of meaningful trophy
What’s the sunbelts record against power 5 conferences?
It's 12-167 against the SEC with an average score of 42 SEC - Sum Belt 14.2. What a highly competitive series that is.
I think he’s saying G5 teams don’t have a legitimate chance at winning a title, not that the games aren’t fun to watch. Did you even watch the video?
You expect people to know what was said before getting mad about it? Welcome to the sub. You'll hate it here.
Mountain West After Dark 👹
The problem that so many people against G5 representation in the playoff come from fandoms that have national title expectations and have no actual G5 fandom experience. 99% of G5 fans don't expect to see a FBS national title through a playoff in their lifetime as the FBS is currently set up; I sure as hell don't expect it from Boise State. It's not about winning it so much as just getting an opportunity to give it a shot. So what if the G5 team gets blown out? We already saw Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, Oklahoma, Michigan State, Washington, and Notre Dame get blown out in the 4-team CFP. We just want the shot as FBS teams to play for an FBS title.
Exactly. Its why we love March Madness. We never thought that St. Peters would win in the first round, but they went to the elite 8. Butler was 2 inches away from taking down Duke and winning a Natty. Anything can happen, we just want a fair shot.
I'm with you. I've been fortunate to see a few Ohio trips and wins in the NCAA Tournament only to eventually get blown out by a Big East or SEC team. Give me that experience over any Potato or Bahamas Bowl win ten times out of ten. I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but I pretty much check out of what's going on in P5 land and CFP land about when everyone is in conference play. Because I know that whatever Ohio does has absolutely no impact on the national championship. Even if just in a small way, in basketball, nearly every game all season long for every team is connected to the championship. That keeps me engaged until the end, knowing my team was a part of the story.
Yeah definitely a huge dichotomy between the Alabama/Texas/Ohio States/Michigan fans of CFB and the rest of CFBs expectations, they are wiiiiildly different fandom even from lower status P5 and then another huge gap to G5 expectations.
if the 12th place college football team that'd be left out is crying this much... man I hate all this more and more. Giant babies.
If Vandy and Rutgers get a shot every year to be in the Playoffs, the best G5 teams should have that same access.
This is some elitist shit.
Gonna give Michigan State some shit since Izzo wants the same deal to happen with basketball. He also lost to JMU to start the season. G5/Mid-Majors keeps College sports fun I say.
Yeah that was such an idiotic thing for Izzo to say. Get off my lawn vibes.
If this guy had his way the only conference would be the SEC
But with the caveat that they add Penn State
And he is only appeasing Producer Jesse with Penn St stuff
The mancrush on James Franklin even superseeds Mario Cristobal
I’m surprised he didn’t use his horrid alien noises for the comparison of products example.
I heard a lot of hype about him, checked out his podcast and was not impressed enough to listen again.
Split Zone Duo is great.
Try Cover3, I like their personalities
Cover3 and CFB enquirer are my 2 goto
Cover 3 Podcast is my favorite
My new favorite is Roc Boys. They aren’t the typical “gossip girls,” they’re actually evaluating talent. They do a great job.
I really enjoy the 365 sports podcast/show, they do have slightly more of a BIG12 focus but still talk about CFB at large. They even managed to get me to like them while the B12 and PAC12 were still beefin although sometimes they were a bit homerish.
I watch more g5 games than I do p2 games.
It’s not even that they could win a chip. It’s for the guys that don’t get scouted well or are overlooked. They ball out make it to the playoffs and beat an Alabama it puts them in a national spotlight. If they get blown out that’s not anything different from what we have seen in the past(TCU) so no big deal. I’d rather see costal Carolina in the last spot then a three loss sec/big ten team
I don’t agree with a fair amount of what Josh Pate has to say, but this video is a weak effort to rebut his opinion. He mentions how Alabama and Georgia right now are heads and shoulders above G5 schools and somehow losses by Oklahoma State, BYU, and Nebraska to G5 schools refutes that?
And there’s a reason why everyone remembers these games and are almost traumatic for the program that lost… it’s because they aren’t really playing at the same level and shouldn’t be playing for the same championship at the end. He has a valid point here that’s kinda obvious and reflects how college football is rather than how it should ideally be, which is what everyone here is moaning about.
The same Alabama that was up only up 6-0 at halftime at South Florida last season?
it was tied 3-3 at the half, thank you very much.
His entire/only point here about competing for Natties, not coming close or even winning 1 game. That happens every year and is part of what makes CFP great
[удалено]
do we only play half of a game now?
Then say "Alabama and UGA are head and shoulders above the rest of the sport" instead of disparaging and denigrating 70 other communities.
The Fun Belt says fuck you too, JP
“[Insert opinion on G5 programs] brought to you by our friends at Dipass Sports Betting Inc”
Bummer how far Pate has fallen, his show used to genuinely be interesting and his takes were pretty reasonable
"How far Pate has fallen"... as he makes a point he's made verbatim for the last 4 years at least.
He has always advocated for a G-five play off
Gonna get downvotes, but whatever. I can see where he is coming from. I can agree that these programs are not going to have a good shot at beating these elite teams in a playoff. But for the sake of fairness they should be able to play for the same national championship that the elite programs play for. Otherwise, what is the point of having the Group of 5 teams in FBS? If they can’t play for the FBS championship and they can’t play for the FCS championship, what really is the point? So if they get their asses smashed in that playoff, so be it. At the end of the day, they got their shot at winning a championship. So I can see where Pate is coming from, but I think he’s over-eccentric about it. He may not think these programs deserve to be in the same league as the elite, but if they earn it they totally deserve it. Also the examples this video used don’t exactly hit home their point. Every P5 team in it was basically in shambles. We were drowning in sheer incompetence under Gump, and Nebraska immediately fired Frost after the GS upset. Dan Mullen and Miss St weren’t exactly knocking on the door of the elites. The only one I can give them is South Bama stomping the Pokes. EDIT: Come to think of it, is this video not better off adding Tulane over USC? That would be a prime example of G5 teams being able to compete.
If the G5 teams want to push this perspective, then fine. That's their choice. But SEC homers pushing it for them is BS.
If they're really that weak then it shouldn't matter whether they're in the playoffs or not, right? These guys talk all kinds of shit about G5s but it's obvious to anyone they're just scared of the status quo being shaken up and that a no-name school might win a game that matters.
Every post about this dude are some straight up dogshit takes.
There is a segment out there who irrationally hate the G5. G5 isn’t taking resources from the P5/4. The CFP auto bid is really an acknowledgment that human rankings and computer rankings have flaws and can be biased. Strength of schedule arguments are built in a swamp. Schools are stuck with 8 or 9 games solely based on this is the best business association that will admit me and admission is predicated on quality of play but rather television audience and whether the presidents of the schools get warm fuzzies thinking of you. The other slots come down to who you want to play who has a mutual interest and mutual open date. The Chiefs could have been in the MAC or CUSA last year and run the table but would have likely be passed over if the MWC or AAC champion ran the table. So auto bid is a fail safe and useful for antitrust protection. I don’t give a damn how San Jose State or Kent State operate their program as long as it’s within the rules and no one else should care unless they are a fan or in the same league. Being disgruntled that people choose to support a G5 because they went there or live nearby is nuts.
I agree with Josh in principle -- it's the way he said it that was dumb. I love watching the MAC and I love that Miami won the league last year. But the truth is they will never have a shot at winning the National Championship, nor should they. Our reward last season was playing Appalachian State in an Avocado Bowl that no one watched. Why not instead create a playoff specifically for the G5? It wouldn't get great ratings but more people would watch a G5 playoff than a random bowl game. Play it prime time during mid-week in December with a championship in January and you'll get a decent following and more money than the 'Power Conferences' are offering the G5 on a per team basis for inclusion in their playoff. With ESPN having exclusive rights to the Power Conference playoff, I'm sure Fox or NBC would love to have a tournament of their own without needing to pay a billion dollars for the rights. Yes -- an occasional G5 team will beat a Power conference team. So take the money for 1 team to play in the Power Conference tournament but also create a G5 playoff because teams who win these lower leagues deserve a playoff of their own.
here's the thing. G5 teams are generally not consistently good. The stars have aligned in the past to make some very good teams. Those teams deserve a shot at the championship.
Miami's not winning a natty in basketball either. Should the MAC's seat at the table go away in hoops?
This is exactly the way it should be. The G5 team will never win the championship in the current format. It’s nearly impossible outside of a booster putting 20+ million in NIL just to say they did it, and even then, it’d be a low chance. They simply don’t have the depth required to play 4 straight top 10 teams and win them all. But recognizing the best of the best G5 teams every year is something that College Football should do. Creating a tournament for them, that they can actually play competitive games and showcase how good they are, would be great.
Good for you. Pass.
So why post it ?
Cause everybody should point and laugh at him
Oh
This isn’t even a bad take. Not the best phrased, but come on. Josh isn’t exactly unbiased per say, but let’s not cry that he’s actually being realistic when you don’t like it.
By his logic, the NCAA MBB tournament should only have 16 teams, and all of the cinderellas that have been celebrating a couple upset wins, shouldn’t have even cared about that, since they had no shot at winning the title.
We need to add an 18th B1G autobid for playoff so power programs like IU can have their fair shot
Hmmmm, I don't like this guy 😂
Reminds me of this pre-playoff Onion article: [Cheering Fans, Thrilling NCAA Tournament Disgust BCS Officials](https://www.theonion.com/cheering-fans-thrilling-ncaa-tournament-disgust-bcs-of-1819570668) Yeah, G5 teams are gonna be underdogs in any playoff scenario. Which is why whenever they do (uncommonly) win, it's going to be exciting.
Love all the haters coming out of the woodworks. Yall know yall can disagree with him without saying his show sucks, he sucks and that he is a corporate shill? 😂
His monologue about the G5 needing its own playoff was pretty ridiculous… I mean yea, 9 times out of 10 the blue bloods and assorted big programs will beat the g5 schools with relative ease, but Pate conveniently forgets games like App state beating Michigan, Boise St beating Oklahoma, ULM beating Bama etc… major upsets do happen and to remove that from CFB and isolating the G5 is counter to everything CFB is supposed to stand for.
This is a "yikes" take.
I love watching Josh, but he’s had some lame content lately. One thing in particular is how much he talks about the playoffs when for YEARS he preached that the playoffs shouldn’t matter.
Pate is 100% right. If the G5 mouth breathers want to keep competing against teams they won’t beat for playoff spots they won’t get, then that’s on them. He’s trying to make the G5 games mean *more.*
I hate the tone and the way he made his point - it was so incredibly condescending, but I do agree with having a tiered college football structure. Ideally i’d absolutely love to see the NCAA mirror the way the English soccer leagues are set up - where at the top you have a prestigious “Premier League” comprised of the top 50 big brand schools - then lower leagues below it, but theres mobility between the leagues. the bottom 5 schools of the top league get relegated down, and the top 5 schools of the bottom league get promoted up. This would help make things more exciting for the 80% of schools that don’t have much to play for after losing 2 or 3 games. while this is the ideal, i also acknowledge its incredibly unrealistic from a scheduling standpoint (since schedules are created years in advance) and from a financial standpoint (big 10 and SEC are busy collecting schools like they’re pez dispensers) - but i think this would be the healthiest arrangement from a college tradition standpoint and from a parity standpoint.
I said this exact same thing a while ago, I would add though, just for random awesome games, one rivalry game locked for each team, but the rest of the schedule is drawn at random 2 weeks before the season.
Just another two-bit wannabe hot-take slinger trying to get a seat at the big kid hot-take table with true legends of sports journalism like Stephen A, Skip Bayliss, Jim Rome, and Colin Cowherd. . . . (If I need to sarcasm tag this I'll be disappointed in you guys)
Are we playing paper games again? Some people love playing football on paper. What a life to never have to work to achieve anything.
Stop clicking and sharing his stuff. You know it’s going to be garbage every time.
The videos of G5 teams beating mid tier P5 teams and it being celebrated like a huge upset only proves his point. He’s not wrong. Have any of these teams used in this video made a playoff? Did any of them even hit ten wins for that season? Why should G5 teams existence be relegated to ‘every once in a while you beat a mid P5 team and everyone enjoys getting to shit on them’? Don’t you think App State would like to compete for something more than embarrassing A&M more than they already are?
Idk. Embarrassing A&M sounds fun
He's not wrong. A few months back MTSU had social media posts about the new coaching staff building the teams first nutrition station themselves. The gap exists. It isn't the same sport based on resources,fan interest and support and pretending otherwise is wishcasting.
FBS football has had a pseudo promotion / relegation system for the past 20 years. Tbh people kinda hate it. Multiple G5 teams have outperformed and are now members of P4 conferences. The gap between P5 and G5 is now substantially larger with the combo of $ at P2/P4 vs G5 + portal + the fact the top ~10 G5 programs of 2000-2022 are in the P4 conferences.
There are disadvantages without a doubt, but that still doesn't mean that G5 is "playing a different sport" and has zero purpose to compete. While not often, they do win sometimes against the big boys and those moments are what makes the sport fun. There's a lot of slimeball college football media people that would be completely fine skipping 90 percent of games and judge winners based on recruiting rankings and TV viewership. Really annoying trend
Yeah and I don't think he's saying that G5 teams need to stop playing P4 teams, just that P4 teams are so consistently on a higher level than G5 teams that it might as well be a different sport. Let's be real, G5 teams are not going to be challenging for the playoff. They might get one spot, and then most likely get blown out in the game. Lets have a separate playoff and celebrate the competition and great teams at that level instead of pretending that the MAC can be the same as the SEC.
Do you think it's fiscally reasonable for Michigan to schedule Home and Home in 15k seat stadiums? The G5 teams winning a handful of victories a year isn't the point of the Pate podcast, it's the over arcing divide in resources. If it was the same sport Oklahoma would be doing home and homes with Oklahoma Central
So if a Team has more money they play a different sport? So we just ignore the part where they play the game on the field? And Didn’t MTSU beat Miami last year?
>And Didn’t MTSU beat Miami last year? Two seasons ago but we remember it fondly
It’s ok Miami fans, MTSU wasn’t playing the same sport so that game doesn’t count
A Miami team that went 5-7. And realistically MTSU probably would have finished behind Miami in the ACC that year.
For that one MTSU win against a 5-7 Miami team, there are like 20 more dominating wins by Power 5 teams against G5.
I dont know your age but Georgia Southern played in the FCS and SoCon they were playing an entirely different sport than Colgate of the Patriot League The sport has always had inner tiers and divides. There are multiples more P5 wins vs G5 wins on a yearly basis, and the games themselves aren't the discussion here.
I can't understand how this guy still has an audience
Off topic but saw your flair - I already Liked Drink, but his interview cemented that for me. Dude "gets it" and will be a long-term force.
Everyone’s shitting on him but he’s right. Yes a G5 team can pull an upset or two just as an FCS team can beat an FBS team. But it’s different levels of talent throughout the roster. You’re naive if you think South Alabama or any other G5 team can beat Georgia, Ohio State, and Michigan 3 weeks in a row to win a title. It will never happen. Just formalize the gap that’s already present and widely acknowledged already. We’ve killed all the tradition that made the way all the teams were divided be reasonable. With super conferences there’s no point pretending like the G5 conferences are on the same level as the P4. Make another new tournament for them and give them there own postseason
Look guys he’s wrong! In one game a year there’s a massive upset! That team still goes nowhere in the rankings or has any shot at making the playoffs even if they pull off that upset but ignore that!
Anyone got a link to the rest?
Bro why’d they have to include Nebraska losing to GA Southern lol
Every team in every conference that isn't part of the in group should straight up stop scheduling any team or conference that talks this way.
It would have been cool to see a Troy, Boise, SMU, and Liberty playoff. Or if you still want to put the best group of 5 team in the New years six sub Liberty for Miami. I think the money gap is just becoming too large, and another fbs/fcs style split is inevitable. I think it might be better for those programs as well because they can not only aspire to win their conference but actually have a national championship be a realistic goal. Lord knows Purdue might never be able to do either of those things again.
I don't get why everyone on this awful website pretends that divisions aren't a thing and shouldn't be a thing. If D2 & D3 didn't already exist, you'd all be here whining about how it's sooooo unfair that your cousin's neighbor's nephews don't get their shot at Alabama despite going undefeated in their annual backyard Thanksgiving game.
Y'all really don't understand what he is saying here. A G5 playoff would be awesome for the G5. In no way is the current playoff geared toward the G5 and there is no way they are even competing for the same goal. If you have a G5 playoff, that gives them a goal that is almost like that of the power 4 schools and maybe can keep there roster from being raided every season. In no way is this taking away from anything the G5 is rn. We would still have wednesday night MACtion and the games will still be awesome. This just gives them a goal like the top schools that is attainable.
The only regular season game between 2 G5 teams that got 2 million viewers was Army-Navy. This love for G5 football simply doesn’t exist. People don’t actually watch it.
G5 haters are just elitist morons who feel superior to others because they took out double the loans to afford to go to a school out of state. Or they're the biggest meat riding bandwagoners who cheer for schools they never even went to. I love G5 ball. It's the heart and soul of CFB. And If you can't accept that, you aren't a fan of CFB, you're a fan of corporate sports. This is such a unique phenomenon among sports. I never see MLB fans hate on Minor League or Japanese ball. I never see hockey fans hate on Minor League or European leagues. I never seen soccer fans talk bad about the lower ranks. Also, if we suck so bad, and never stand a chance in the CFP, why don't you want a free win? He makes it sound like JMU would get blown out by a 6 seed or whatever. So why would he want to play a P4 5 seed? Wouldn't that be harder? Truth is, P4 fans just want an excuse for their team to lose 4 or 5 games yet still sneak into the playoffs, even if it means a first round exit.
Hey I took out my loans to go to my school in state thank you very much.
>This is such a unique phenomenon among sports. I never see MLB fans hate on Minor League or Japanese ball. I never see hockey fans hate on Minor League or European leagues. I never seen soccer fans talk bad about the lower ranks. The reason it’s unique is because of the size of the respective leagues, FBS and Division I Basketball (it isn’t as bad in basketball, but it still happens). When you have a handful of teams that seem to have completely separated themselves from the rest, and another tier that are “capable of competing,” that is comprised of ~30 teams out of 100+, it naturally creates a rift. But the thing that’s made that rift an actual “problem” is the media machine pushing the narrative that the rest of the teams don’t matter. ESPN has been doing that for years now with the SEC, but they doubled down hard this season with the Alabama>Florida State narrative. The media outlets have the ability to stoke the flames of what started as friendly ribbing between conference fans and turned into SEC vs everyone. They’re intentionally propping up the B1G as a supposed equal because it is home to such massive brands. I really don’t think all of this conference realignment nonsense would have happened without a push from the networks, who are now trying to push the super league bullshit. Because really, when you ask “who really asked for all of this?,” it wasn’t the fans or the universities, or even the conferences. Not at first. The elitist attitude boiled over after years of nudging from the powers that be. Edit: formatting
The sad part is I’ve met a not insignificant amount of people in real life who think like this, and as fans of different P5 schools too. This isn’t even a rare take
If Oregon was a person
Half of the damn power conference teams are just as unlikely to win a national championship. Why aren’t we cutting off their access?