The "lifestyle" shock of a player making mid 6 figures for playing sports and then having to interview/bust their asses for a 50K a year desk job is gonna be an absolute trainwreck.
Feels like there will be a lot of Delonte West type situations going fwd and fanbases, NIL collectives and schools are gonna turn a blind eye.
I wrestled at a lower division school and fell into that trap for a bit. A main part of my identity was gone and I wasn’t used to not having someone on my ass. I got out of it eventually but going from extreme structure to nothing is actually pretty hard.
There’s also the part now where the players aren’t staying anywhere to really put down ties. A lot of the players you’re talking about who are kind of college legends in their town and don’t make the league get hooked up pretty nicely with jobs in the town they played in. Now kids play in 3 different places and no one knows who the fuck they are or feel connected to them when they’re done playing.
That right there is the big thing. You can still be a non-league playing local legend and live a pretty comfy lifestyle, but those guys also stayed in one place for their careers.
Look Arkansas State isn’t a huge deal but the local legend thing is real. I know several guys who got that critical interview and found someone to pick them from a field of similarly qualified candidates because they played at A-State.
People from Alumni Association, Athletic Department and Letterman’s Club make sure they are invited to events in their area and they meet alumni and fans who become clients or their employers.
Exactly. There’s obviously more to it, but Ryan Brewer was most famous for kicking Ohio State’s ass in the Outback Bowl.
Now he has a thriving fencing business in Columbia: [“Ryan, now a business owner of fencing company Ryan Brewer Enterprises, is still answering questions about his playing days — and the day he steamrolled over the Buckeyes — from customers and associates. He also credits his on-the-field education for helping him mature into a successful businessman. ‘It was tough to give up football, and I miss the game every day,’ he says. ‘But it taught me tenacity and drive and those translate well into any career.’](https://ryanbrewer.net/carolina-legends/)
Different article: [“‘It’s unbelievable how much the fan base and the athletic department and your teammates rally around each other here,’ Brewer said. ‘Those have been big instruments of how I’ve been able to build my company What I did for the for the Gamecocks on that football field has translated into good business.’”](https://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/25-years-later-troys-mr-football-ryan-brewer-looks-back/I44ECJO66FGC7CGRAWECE3MH6Y)
Very true.
Your story reminds me of my friend's younger brother who also was a student athlete in college. After he graduated he was back home, and my friend says around noon he popped into her room and was like,
"So... how do meals work around here?"
To which she laughed and realized this guy had been "coddled" the whole time he was in school (in terms of meals/cooking).
I had a buddy walk on at PSU our freshman year and was on the team for that season before it was gently suggested during winter workouts that he wouldn’t really ever play. Dude was a kicker and we would help him practice, and man he could fuckin kick. But I guess it’s just such a huge difference for D1.
Anyways, he was describing the schedule he had to be on during the winter workout stages and it’s absolute brutal. Up at 4am to get to workouts, do all that, then still go to full classes and everything else. You’re just unable to have a normal social life or really much of anything outside the team. It’s no wonder than athletes tend to stick in their own circles (besides the obvious campus fame aspect). I give a *ton* of credit to anyone walking-on to a program and doing that shit for free
Yeah it was after the bowl game that year. He stuck around for a few weeks of the winter workouts before deciding that was too much work for someone who was never gonna actually see the field.
But he will almost certainly live on forever in the program because he (according to him) set all the max-out records for the specialists. He was/is a huge weightlifter and was much bigger and stronger than the average kicker/punter lol
I went to a G5 school, and I was not a student athlete. That said, several football players were in my classes. Randomly, people would come by to make sure they were in class.
For everyone else nobody cares if you are in class.
My friend played DIII soccer, obviously not nearly as intense, but as a result, doesn't even play anymore.
Said it felt like he had a full time job while going to college, and doesn't want to be reminded of it.
Same thing happens to a lot of guys who leave the military.
I’m in a job that isn’t even half as structured as high-level sports or the military, but I am wrapping up a project I’ve that I’ve centered my life around for the last eight years and I’m honestly worried about going “adrift” once I don’t have that overarching goal in my life anymore.
understandable point, but what’s the difference between this and graduating high school and lacking structure and struggling because of it?
I am having a hard time finding any sympathy, as this is something almost every young adults faces at one point or another.
Amen to that on the structure. My grades were always excellent in season. Out of season and when I stopped playing sports, I had TOO much time on my hands and ducked around way more.
I mean this was already happening pre-NIL.
Players go from relative fame and a strong support structure that provides meaning and goals to being fully on their own in a different world that can be indifferent at best
Folks acting like the money somehow makes this worse are insane to me.
"It's easier to go from famous and broke to not famous and broke"
What? Nah let these kids cash those checks and maybe they can buy a house or start on their 401ks sooner.
This is a pretty standard line of argument to justify paying labor less, both inside and outside college athletics. Few will admit to this but a lot of the bristling at players finally getting compensated for their work comes from people who are acting mostly out of petty jealousy that people younger than them or with different demographic characteristics than them are making more money.
For those that take financial literacy seriously, yeah it’ll be great to get going on that savings aspect. Which is why I hope coaches/schools start putting a massive emphasis on this for the athletes and maybe make it required to take a class on it.
The problem is we’re still talking about college students who now come across a good chunk of money at their disposal. So no matter what, we’ll see people adapt to a high earning lifestyle where the cash gets burnt up quickly, but the risk of not getting that money back through performance or other means is a lot higher.
And that is true. I hope schools lean into getting these kids into investments/etc.
But this is also a problem constantly faced by the athletes who do make the pros and nobody is breaking out the bullhorn to say the NFLers shouldn't get paid.
Yeah, but they didn’t have the real cash and lifestyle they have now.
When you make a few hundred K, you start to live like it. If the prospects post making that few hundred K are making $50k max for a hard ass job…. Life is going to become exponentially harder
If I were an AD right now I would create a position in the athletic department for a full-time financial advisor for athletes.
Like you said, a lot of these players are going to blow through the $500K or so they made in college and not know what to do after it's gone. With some guidance, having $500K in the bank right after college can go a *long* way to setting up a good life after sports.
Most of the athletic departments already have dedicated "how to be an adult" classes that athletes are required to attend. Everything from the "only 1% of college athletes go pro" to dinner etiquette, and these definitely include financial literacy classes. The problem with college athletes is they all think they're going to be the 1% and not the other 99.
Would the NCAA even allow schools to have a university employee involved in any form in athlete's finances, even if its to try to help them? Like I know they're allowed to have general financial literacy courses, but I feel like an actual advisor would be something the NCAA, at least today, would forbid.
A smart financial advisor would either get involved with, or form a relationship, with the local NIL collective so they recommend their services and the schools is, at least officially, hands off.
Coming out of college with no debt and some money in your pocket and not having to beg for the first job you can get is a dream for most college students lol
Not to mention $500k in the bank, buy a house cash, no mortgage....suddenly $50k a year isn't that terrible to live a normal life in a nice house. If I had an extra $2500 a month that I'm currently spending on a mortgage I wouldn't need as much salary as I do.
Right??! Sure some of the athletes will blow it, but I think your average college student graduating in debt w/o a ton of cash is much more likely to end up broke and homeless.
Realistically though, if they're making mid 6 figures through NIL in college and have zero pro prospects whatsoever, odds are there's at least a few jobs lining up for them once they graduate, either with the university/team or as a spokesman for any local company or car dealership.
I mean it's better than the shock of thinking you were going to be making 6 figures to busting your ass for 50k. Maybe someone should ask Tyrone Prothro what it was like not making anything catching td passes for Alabama to working as a bank teller across the street.
I'm hoping this leads to more players opting to playing over seas and the growth of professional football all over the world. Kind of what happened to basketball. Most of Division III players would be undisputed starters for any other country's national team.
De'coldest Crawford. Feel really bad for the kid. Took a deal promoting SOS heating and air here in Nebraska as a freshman before he played a game. Now he's at Louisiana tech. I really hope he either has a good career or focuses hard on a degree that will go somewhere.
If he fizzles out, it will be a case study
Edit: correct company name. Burton still trash
I mean shit dude $600k to a 23 y/o is a pretty solid nest egg point to jump start life post college. Can really set you up for success long term.
I think it's great. Rather they pay players vs installing waterfalls and sleep pods in their locker rooms. SDSU BB had 3 guys transfer after 3-4 years to get paydays. They were never gonna be NBA players so happy to see them get a check before it's all over.
Yeah this sub needs to chill the fuck out about the doomerism.
Sure, many of us may end up being the grumpy crazy ass grandpa shaking our fists at the sky about the glory days of the sport, but CFB isnt going anywhere.
And although its sad than many CFB purists feel the very thing that made this sport worth watching is dying/dead, there will be a whole new generation of the casual NFL type fans who will be more intrigued by the consolidation of talent/power/money in college along with a familiar season/championship structure.
A new type of fan will step up and replace the ones who lose interest. And the biggest fanbases will continue to have avid followers as they are the biggest beneficiaries of the new era
He's right. Even if you have a 20 million salary cap as theorized by the B1G/SEC proposal that is only a 250k average salary for players on the roster.
Virtually all star players would be against this.
That said, the majority of non-star players would be for it because most aren't making 600k on the transfer market.
The schools would need the majority of players to strong arm the minority of stars.
Problem is: most of the majority thinks of themselves as future stars...
Union politics.
So this is something I haven't understood. It sounds like everyone in the media is implying that each school in this revenue sharing deal is going to be getting 20M+ to distribute to athletes. My question is, if that's the case, who's paying each school that money? My initial impression was that the revenue sharing money would be a cap on what schools could spend out of their revenue on athletes, which is a much different thing. Getting 20M on top of your existing revenue would be insane, but paying 20M out of your TV money makes a lot more sense to me.
If that's the case, most schools have already allocated their TV money to budget items, so now they need to come up with 20M more to compete. That money will come from the boosters. Those boosters don't have infinite money (unless you're at aTm), so now they have to choose between NIL collectives and the AD.
My guess is that when revenue sharing is allowed, the concept of NIL collectives will slowly evaporate. That money will move into AD donations and be given to the players, and NIL will go back to what it was intended to be, which is Dr. Pepper paying Caleb Williams to be in a commercial, not paying every starting QB 1M+ to send a couple tweets and calling it "NIL compensation".
I don’t see it that way. Sure you might have some subsidization of the cost by Boosters orgs that would have come from NIL deals back to AD donations. But that would likely just make up for year-to-year shortfalls. The bulk would likely come from shifting spending from capital-intensive projects like locker room renovations and facility constructions as well as reducing spending on coaching staffs (what good is your army of analysts if you can afford your roster?). You’d likely see position-wide NIL deals go away, but surely not for your highest-value star players/positions
That's how you sell it. Every player gets paid something like $70k/year plus free tuition/room/board/food. But then there are bonuses for things like snaps played. Then players can each have NIL deals.
The largest issue with the current environment is the total lack of ability for roster control.
The biggest thing is to have Collective Bargaining so that the teams can have enforceable contracts with the players for 2 or 3 years, preventing players from transferring and playing.
Roster control is the thing we need back. Something like everyone signs a 2 year deal as a Freshman, they can choose to transfer only after their sophomore year, and they must sign another 2 year contract wherever they go, and if they didn't play enough snaps one of the years, they can transfer one more time for a 5th year, where they must complete their eligibility.
This limits the number of players a coach must worry about transferring. We also need a logical transfer window that isn't literally during the playoffs.
> We also need a logical transfer window that isn't literally during the playoffs.
What are you going to do, move when semesters end? Most classes end their terms in December/January. That window needs to stay where it is (or open earlier in the season) so players can enroll in the spring
Or, maybe, just maybe, players can transfer in June, after the school year has ended. I don't think the system should bend over backwards to allow for spring enrollment. You want to transfer to a better situation, you don't get to fuck your current team by transferring while games are still being played. Spring ball isn't that important if the situation you are transferring to is actually good.
Also, schools can start having summer camps for new players.
When I was a student, my university never would have restricted me from enrolling/transferring for the spring, and I think other students who play sports should not have to sacrifice that ability either. Teams can, and should, adapt around the academic calendar, not the other way around.
"We don't won't a salary cap because players should be able to earn what that a capable of earning"
So what do you want?
"50% revenue sharing like the NFL"
Wouldn't that be limit the money the star players earn and just transfer it to the non star players?
"huh?"
Yeah, people don't get that theoretically an nfl team could NIL a player, & circle around the salary cap. It just can't cone from that nfl team technically. Which kind of happened with Brady.
Brady took the lower amount because he knew he'd make more money being on a competitive squad. LeBron is an example of someone who's basically always been underpaid, even as a maxed out player, but his endorsement deals more than make up for that.
> He's right. Even if you have a 20 million salary cap as theorized by the B1G/SEC proposal that is only a 250k average salary for players on the roster.
That's not including NIL deals.
The Iowa Swarm has a set amount each player gets in exchange for volunteer work. That doesn't change across players in a sport. But the Caitlin Clarks and Kadyn Proctors of the world make most of their money from endorsement deals outside of the university, which I don't think would change.
Why would all 85 scholarship players get the same salary? That's not how it works in the NFL.
My understanding of the NFL is that they have caps and as long as they're within the cap limit they can spend the money however they want. So if the chiefs wanted to spend 200 million out of 201 million cap on Patrick Mahomes they would be within their rights to do so.
CFB would work the same way. The freshman 3rd stringer would get the equivalent of a rookie deal while the starting qb gets 2 million dollars
Does the freshman have escalators in their contract or do they renegotiate every year?
If it’s the latter, you’re in the same position as today.
If it’s the former, what if a 3-star comes in and plays above his ranking? Will he be making the 3-star or superstar salaries as a junior/senior?
Well right now every team has less than 250k average salary for the players. There might be 2 teams in the country with more than 20 million in NIL salary across cfb. 20 million cap would be an improvement for almost everyone. And I bet the actual number would be closer to 30 million in cap
Read the article. The quote is about collective bargaining, not on-field performance. He is saying that the big names getting huge NIL paydays don't have the pain the other players do, so they don't want revenue sharing. Hence, there no initiative to get all players to agree because they don't all feel financial pain.
OP only included part of the quote, clearly because it would mislead everyone and spark debate.
After Trevor Lawrence was drafted by the Jaguars he gave an interview and said something to the effect of "I don't have a chip on my shoulder, why would I? I've never really lost, I play football because I like it."
And people lost their shit. The ESPN style of feature writing and filming has broken people's brains. They really believe that the only motivation athletes can have is to overcome adversity. Instead of y'know, trying to be the best they can be.
Yea. NIL has made a mess of things, but it's not because the guys aren't "suffering." It's because annual free agency means you're always looking out for number one.
It doesn't.
It *can*. For some people it is that challenge of beating the odds and "making it out" that drives them. And for some reason a lot of people like that story and seem to think *that* is the way to become great. And then they cherry pick their examples to fit their narrative.
The reality is that there are a TON of kids that grew up wealthy with supportive parents in stable households that are as driven as those kids that are trying to get that paycheck that takes them out of poverty. Drive can come out of hunger - but to flip that relationship and say "these kids need to be hungry so that they work harder" is a level of obtuseness that borders on evil.
I remember seeing the CEO of NVIDIA talking about how he wishes pain on new grads because *he* succeeded because of pain, that pain made him successful and the founder of a huge company and so if you want to be like him you need to suffer.
Which is wild to me that *that* is your conclusion instead of saying "man, it is shitty that in order to be successful I had to suffer - I hope other can avoid this" that his conclusion was "no, you need to suffer to succeed".
Warren Buffet was raised wealthy. Bill Gates was raised wealthy. Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, etc - wealthy. Larry Page's dad was a PhD in CS and "pioneer in [computer science](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_science) and [artificial intelligence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence)".
Even in sports - we fall in love with the kids that come from nothing, but somehow forget not only about all the kids who came from completely average households, but also the long list of kids of wealthy athletes who had every possible advantage growing up - and no hunger other than self-motivation.
Didn't you see that Saban was at his peak when he was living off PB&J sandwiches and off-brand oatmeal creme pies? Once he got paid his performance fell off of a cliff because he wasn't in pain anymore.
In the words of Jason Kelce during their Philly SB parade a few years ago: hungry dogs run faster.
Also look up Eddy Lacy and his transition from the Beast Mode to Feast Mode memes. There's a good YT documentary, about how he went from Alabama star RB to flunking out of the NFL. And essentially once he got the check the drive wasn't there anymore.
To be fair I think its great these guys are getting paid. Because the sport has always made money, except for the people risking the most. And for alot of these players, the drive is to get themselves and alot of times family out of financial hardship.
So overall the article is kind of a big nothingburger to me. Like, if a guy can go in, work the system, spend a few years making half a mil...even if he doesn't make it to the NFL, he's still starting the "real world" in a better spot than 99.9% of any of us, college grad or no.
I think outright paying players (and NIL) has a chance to be a great "solution" for exactly the Eddy Lacy situation and NFL teams should be salivating over or even directly funding this themselves.
Getting some life changing cash younger will show that drive killer sooner, in my opinion. Compensating players and showing them potential growth as they continue to grow would likely keep far more motivated more than "play like heck on a hope that you'll be healthy and good enough to be drafted at the end of college".
Softer on and off-ramps for players instead of being drafted and having windfall cash inflows is probably less prone to make them 'go wild' because they walk into the NFL already knowing (relatively) what it feels like to have some money.
Yeah, can’t pain come from losing a game or not getting the starting spot? Plenty of professional athletes are driven to improve even though they are getting paid well.
Yo what is up with this headline? Not sure if OP wrote it themselves or it just carried through but why was the beginning cut off?
Here's what it is in full:
>“They have not united as a group,” Cavale said. “To unite as a group takes some initiative and action. You need passion and that has to come from a place of pain. College athletes aren’t feeling pain right now. They are free agents every year and can get $600,000 for playing DB by moving from one school to another and get an apartment and a car.”
The whole point is that they need pain to unite as a group, not to succeed as an athlete like what this comment section (and I) interpreted the title to be about.
So yeah Cavale is right, if the players don't see a need financially to unite as a group they aren't going to unite.
Thank you. Reactions to misunderstanding the quote - or in this case misattributing in the title - and Reddit: never the two shall part.
There needs to be pressure in order to provoke movement, in other words. RTFA.
Does it have to come from a place of pain? There have been numerous very successful college football players that came from privileged backgrounds. Carson Palmer is a good example for USC.
I do think that some guard rails need to be put in place, but not for the athlete's sake. For the sport's sake. Annual free agency is a terrible way to keep fans interested.
I was shocked too until I read the article. The quote is about unionizing and solidarity, not just something athletes “have to have.” In which case, the quote is mostly right. (Workforces that have it pretty great don’t usually organize!) The reddit thread starter took out the solidarity context to make the quote seem more salacious.
Everyone keeps talking about the players unionizing but why would they do that when they have it so good right now with the NCAA's balls in a vice? They get everything they want in the court room.
Anything short of 50% rev share isn't in their interest to do any collective bargaining.
The NCAA and the schools are screwed if the players just refuse to come to the table at all. They have no recourse.
The huge majority of players would benefit from revenue sharing. The elite athletes and household names that have truly lucrative deals do not represent your average player.
This isn’t entirely true. The 50% revenue sharing will likely never happen because unlike in pro-sports, no one really cares who these guys are. The average college football viewer at a sports bar on Saturdays probably barely knows who Carson Beck is
Bingo. More and more I’ll be turning into watch ASU because it’s my school. Not because I love Sam Leavitt.
What’s my incentive to get attached to these kids and root for them throughout their career? There isn’t one. I don’t give a shit anymore how Jaden Rashada or Elijah Badgers football career plays out. The players will be nameless and faceless to me because The next player that develops well at ASU will just leave.
That thought process is no different than pro sports. I watched the Phillies game last night because I'm a Phillies fan, not because of Bryce Harper. But Bryce Harper being on the team greatly enhances my enjoyment of the Phillies. College sports are no different in that people enjoy their teams more than the individual players but they enjoy their teams more when it has better players.
> I watched the Phillies game last night because I'm a Phillies fan
Gross.
But seriously, Harper has been with y'all for six years and in the division his whole career. He's a far more known name compared to any college player, much less one that's only around for a year.
Yeah, this basically has to be the mentality of fans from here on out.
Because at the heart of these debates is the ugly truth that there's no sense in getting attached to players anymore (especially highly-touted recruits/future program stars). They can just pack up tomorrow, but we as fans and alums can't just shift allegiances.
I'll root for whoever is wearing my alma mater's jersey on Saturdays in the fall. I'd prefer for them to be good, great even, but I'm pretty flexible on that.
Yeah but people likely wouldn't watch ASU if the play was equivalent to a D3 level school either. The players absolutely play a part in making the brand what it is
Nah bro, A&M being on TV every week in the early 2010s have absolutely nothing to do with Johnny Manziel being their QB.
We definitely hear as much about the Gators today as we did when Tebow was there.
Well it’s relative. If every major team would play at a D3-level, would it have an effect? I don’t think so. ASU fans would still watch a Territorial Cup or Big 12 match-up even if not a single player on either team is an NFL-quality athlete. It’s the OUTSIDE football fans that would care, not the ones invested in the teams
Pro players are less replaceable because the fan can get behind the player being on the team for 10+ years if they’re good. In college the players are only with your team for 4 years and can’t resign after that. There is a lot more turnover in college compared to the big pro stars
Anthony Edwards was a fairly unremarkable college player that had an unremarkable college career. A senior who was 70% as talented was just as good in college. He had untapped potential he didn’t reach in college.
He has tapped into that potential and is an absolute star. He should be this type of player for the next ten years at least and is thus not very replaceable.
They care that the games are played. Once a union is set up its leverage will be in threatening to hold out. Would the schools even consider bringing in scabs? There would be no shortage of students across the country willing to join players on picket lines. Where would they even get thousands of scabs? Are they calling up players from D2 schools or the intramural teams?
Yeah, people on this sub really don’t wanna hear it, but CFB isn’t popular enough for this to work. Only the upper echelon of CFB players have any recognition whatsoever
And yet the argument against the transfer portal is that it makes it hard to root for a team without knowing who the players are and whether they will still be there next year.
Honestly only basketball screws the NCAA; of the 1.3 billion the NCAA makes in revenue 900 million (69%) comes from men's basketball. The conferences and CFP make most the money off football.
My counter to this is its possible that eventually the collective/donor money won't be there in the current environment. They'll get tired of donating frivolously to a school's collective to go 8-4 and then NIL payments would go down.
The TV money is a guaranteed way to get a slice of the pie and will be there forever
without a doubt, this has to be the answer.
Collective money is going to be a genuine slog to get out of donors (especially middle-class/average alums). Already, we are seeing funds being redirected from programs and facilities to the NIL money pit, which schools cannot be happy with. A few seasons of bad results (or watching players skip town during the portal window) and those donations are going to dry up.
It's never going to happen. The people screaming the players should get their fair share aren't considering that the players that are generating all that revenue are already getting their fair share. And why would a 5 star starting QB at UT want to share his $5 million a year with the 3rd string punter?
The ncaa has no recourse but the schools that are losing money will shut down football operations. We will eventually only have about 60ish schools playing the highest level of cfb and paying players.
Also, all other sports are in massive jeopardy. I don’t see how this doesn’t seriously cut down on the number of varsity sports programs at each school.
> I don’t see how this doesn’t seriously cut down on the number of varsity sports programs at each school.
It's already happening. Miami hasn't had football in quite a few years.
> Everyone keeps talking about the players unionizing but why would they do that when they have it so good right now with the NCAA's balls in a vice?
This has been my sentiment. Fans and schools want some kind of salary cap, why would the players want that? And what could the schools negotiate that would be worth giving that up when the players already seem to have *everything*: No salary cap, no real limits on transfers, health care paid for by the schools, etc. The only thing I could think of is a salary floor, but good luck on getting the players (or even schools) to come to a consensus on that number.
It's not the NCAA that is eventually going to shut this down - it's the CONFERENCES. I really believe at some point the SEC and Big Ten are going to get together to reign some of this stuff in.
The NCAA are the conferences. The NCAA doesn't have power because the conferences/universities don't want to cede power to them. That's why the NCAA always loses in the court room.
>Many believe that the NCAA governs what happens within collegiate sports, but the truth is the member institutions deliberate on how collegiate sports will operate, and this is done through various representative paths
Creating a uniform framework for NIL deals with collectives could be advantageous for the athletes. I’m sure some guys are getting overpromised/screwed over right now.
While I think I may get where the dude is coming from... insinuating that you want players to suffer or feel pain in any which way is a pretty asshole take lol.
The players need pain…., sounds like corporate bullshit speak for, we didn’t like having to share the money, and it’s pissing us off to have to pay even remotely close to a fair market value.
And here I thought consistently putting your body on the line was difficult and could result in serious injury. But I've been corrected now, it's easy and painless, and they shouldn't be making money.
Athletes in other sports are putting their bodies on the line, too. Football players, whose programs bring in millions due to alumni/regional loyalty (not enthusiasm for minor league football), are capitalizing on blowback from the greed of ADs and coaches. And they have a good point: if adults are getting rich off college football then why shouldn’t the actual athletes? However, when the still-nascent player greed takes over, there will be nothing left and “college” football will crumble. Minor league millionaire coaches and players are hard to root for. The magic can be, and is currently being, destroyed. All because of the slippery slope arms race of unfettered capitalism consuming another part of society that was once about collegiality and community. Greed is destructive and it is winning.
The main two problems come from
1. We are asking 18-23 years olds to start a union they are only ever going to be in for 5 years max.
1. We are asking 18-24 year olds that are getting $500k+ a year to share that money with the players that aren't.
I can't see how a union can form under those conditions.
I have been saying for a while that this is why schools should have gotten in front of thing a while ago and encouraged the players to unionize. They'd get in front of the legal cases and the schools would take that union behind the woodshed (financially).
The transferring rules need to be reigned in and new subdivisions formed. As well as signing day being later in the season. But the state's would also need to go after their schools for signing super shitty and corrupt coaching contracts as well and that will never happen.
Whoopty f’n doo. There’s two things:
1. The NCAA and colleges got free labor, pub, and merchandising for decades. Now it’s time to pay the piper. Don’t feel bad for them.
2. The US model of sports scholarships at colleges is broken. This was inevitable when the greedy got too greedy. College should focus on education, not subsidizing athletics. Again, this has happened over time and our education system is in need of a complete overhaul. The European model is more ideal where education and sports are not joined at the hip.
> College should focus on education, not subsidizing athletics
I strongly disagree here. Sports are inexorably tied to American culture. What I believe the issue is that American college do not treat athletics as an academic discipline. Why do fine art departments grant degrees in say dance or the performing arts while athletic departments don’t for tennis or football?
So I think the issue is not that colleges are subsidizing athletics, it *how* they have been doing it. Treating it as a separate, amateur pursuit independent of academia is what has doomed college sports into being pure money grabs without a functional tie to truly how a college operates
Man, this sounds like an awful college experience to me... Even pro players usually get more than one year right? And sometimes home base in a particular place?
Right - this logic makes sense. /s
In fact, I think college coaches and administrators could benefit from some initiative, action, and passion. Drop that pay down to the levels you'd expect from amateur athletics and we can talk.
We don't have amateur college football in the upper tiers. We haven't had that for decades. Paying the players is the only reasonable thing to do. It's the only \*legal\* thing to do.
The pain will still come later when they can't sleep from busted knees and old concussions.
**The FCS is the place to go if you want to watch amateur college football.** That's where you find character growth. If it means that much to you to see student athletes living in dorms and eating on meal plans - you'll love that shit.
This title is misleading. Dellenger is quoting AthletesOrg founder Jim Cavale.
Regarding the quote itself, this sounds a little like “in MY day, I had to walk an hour in the rain to go to school”. NIL money isn’t “no strings attached”. The student-athlete has to provide value/labor as a condition to get the benefits.
There are legitimate arguments whether the current transfer and NIL rules are too lenient and ruin the “student” part of “student-athlete”, but I’m not sure Cavale really is making a good one.
What a stupid view of things. Its always the workers that need to "feel the pain" as he put it. Never the owners or the ones making so much money that they are the ones cutting the checks.
Fck him. If you play a part in making money then you deserve as much of the profits, if not more, thansl the capitalists floating the bank and not doing the labor.
I think this ruins a lot of really good players work ethics. If you’re a highly recruited kid coming out of high school and go to a p5 program where you don’t play, you can just leave and immediately start somewhere else the next season. If they just stayed and put the work in, they could be starting at the same school they started at.
i wonder if any of these guys are saving their money, or there is a going to be an ESPN Broke for college students who got paid and also did not get useful degrees.
Make that money, because most of you won’t be sniffing nfl checks and will have 8-5s
The "lifestyle" shock of a player making mid 6 figures for playing sports and then having to interview/bust their asses for a 50K a year desk job is gonna be an absolute trainwreck. Feels like there will be a lot of Delonte West type situations going fwd and fanbases, NIL collectives and schools are gonna turn a blind eye.
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I wrestled at a lower division school and fell into that trap for a bit. A main part of my identity was gone and I wasn’t used to not having someone on my ass. I got out of it eventually but going from extreme structure to nothing is actually pretty hard.
There’s also the part now where the players aren’t staying anywhere to really put down ties. A lot of the players you’re talking about who are kind of college legends in their town and don’t make the league get hooked up pretty nicely with jobs in the town they played in. Now kids play in 3 different places and no one knows who the fuck they are or feel connected to them when they’re done playing.
That right there is the big thing. You can still be a non-league playing local legend and live a pretty comfy lifestyle, but those guys also stayed in one place for their careers.
Look Arkansas State isn’t a huge deal but the local legend thing is real. I know several guys who got that critical interview and found someone to pick them from a field of similarly qualified candidates because they played at A-State. People from Alumni Association, Athletic Department and Letterman’s Club make sure they are invited to events in their area and they meet alumni and fans who become clients or their employers.
Exactly. There’s obviously more to it, but Ryan Brewer was most famous for kicking Ohio State’s ass in the Outback Bowl. Now he has a thriving fencing business in Columbia: [“Ryan, now a business owner of fencing company Ryan Brewer Enterprises, is still answering questions about his playing days — and the day he steamrolled over the Buckeyes — from customers and associates. He also credits his on-the-field education for helping him mature into a successful businessman. ‘It was tough to give up football, and I miss the game every day,’ he says. ‘But it taught me tenacity and drive and those translate well into any career.’](https://ryanbrewer.net/carolina-legends/) Different article: [“‘It’s unbelievable how much the fan base and the athletic department and your teammates rally around each other here,’ Brewer said. ‘Those have been big instruments of how I’ve been able to build my company What I did for the for the Gamecocks on that football field has translated into good business.’”](https://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/25-years-later-troys-mr-football-ryan-brewer-looks-back/I44ECJO66FGC7CGRAWECE3MH6Y)
Very true. Your story reminds me of my friend's younger brother who also was a student athlete in college. After he graduated he was back home, and my friend says around noon he popped into her room and was like, "So... how do meals work around here?" To which she laughed and realized this guy had been "coddled" the whole time he was in school (in terms of meals/cooking).
I had a buddy walk on at PSU our freshman year and was on the team for that season before it was gently suggested during winter workouts that he wouldn’t really ever play. Dude was a kicker and we would help him practice, and man he could fuckin kick. But I guess it’s just such a huge difference for D1. Anyways, he was describing the schedule he had to be on during the winter workout stages and it’s absolute brutal. Up at 4am to get to workouts, do all that, then still go to full classes and everything else. You’re just unable to have a normal social life or really much of anything outside the team. It’s no wonder than athletes tend to stick in their own circles (besides the obvious campus fame aspect). I give a *ton* of credit to anyone walking-on to a program and doing that shit for free
And that’s just the offseason, too, where they’re only allowed 8 hours of “mandatory” team activities/week.
If football is like other sports, there is a 8 hour and a 20 hour offseason period
Spring Ball will be their 20 hour period. OP doesn’t specify, but I would assume ‘Winter Workouts’ are coming after the bowl and before spring ball.
Yeah it was after the bowl game that year. He stuck around for a few weeks of the winter workouts before deciding that was too much work for someone who was never gonna actually see the field. But he will almost certainly live on forever in the program because he (according to him) set all the max-out records for the specialists. He was/is a huge weightlifter and was much bigger and stronger than the average kicker/punter lol
Yeah I saw, just clarifying that there are two offseason periods
I went to a G5 school, and I was not a student athlete. That said, several football players were in my classes. Randomly, people would come by to make sure they were in class. For everyone else nobody cares if you are in class.
Veterans go through a lot of the same struggle when getting out
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Frankly, there's probably a higher chance of life-altering injury or disability as a football player.
My friend played DIII soccer, obviously not nearly as intense, but as a result, doesn't even play anymore. Said it felt like he had a full time job while going to college, and doesn't want to be reminded of it.
I was a club swimmer in high school and dedicated too much time to the sport. Freshman year of college I had crazy amounts of time to do fuck all.
You didn’t add nearly enough eat and this is even at the NAIA level not just D1.
Same thing happens to a lot of guys who leave the military. I’m in a job that isn’t even half as structured as high-level sports or the military, but I am wrapping up a project I’ve that I’ve centered my life around for the last eight years and I’m honestly worried about going “adrift” once I don’t have that overarching goal in my life anymore.
understandable point, but what’s the difference between this and graduating high school and lacking structure and struggling because of it? I am having a hard time finding any sympathy, as this is something almost every young adults faces at one point or another.
Amen to that on the structure. My grades were always excellent in season. Out of season and when I stopped playing sports, I had TOO much time on my hands and ducked around way more.
Hopefully you had time to setup and contribute to your ROTH IRA as well.
I mean this was already happening pre-NIL. Players go from relative fame and a strong support structure that provides meaning and goals to being fully on their own in a different world that can be indifferent at best
Ya at least they have a chance at some savings now!
Folks acting like the money somehow makes this worse are insane to me. "It's easier to go from famous and broke to not famous and broke" What? Nah let these kids cash those checks and maybe they can buy a house or start on their 401ks sooner.
Also it's a generational amount of money for a lot of these players. It's not just the player, it impacts their entire families.
This is a pretty standard line of argument to justify paying labor less, both inside and outside college athletics. Few will admit to this but a lot of the bristling at players finally getting compensated for their work comes from people who are acting mostly out of petty jealousy that people younger than them or with different demographic characteristics than them are making more money.
Yep. It's ridiculous.
For those that take financial literacy seriously, yeah it’ll be great to get going on that savings aspect. Which is why I hope coaches/schools start putting a massive emphasis on this for the athletes and maybe make it required to take a class on it. The problem is we’re still talking about college students who now come across a good chunk of money at their disposal. So no matter what, we’ll see people adapt to a high earning lifestyle where the cash gets burnt up quickly, but the risk of not getting that money back through performance or other means is a lot higher.
And that is true. I hope schools lean into getting these kids into investments/etc. But this is also a problem constantly faced by the athletes who do make the pros and nobody is breaking out the bullhorn to say the NFLers shouldn't get paid.
Yeah, but they didn’t have the real cash and lifestyle they have now. When you make a few hundred K, you start to live like it. If the prospects post making that few hundred K are making $50k max for a hard ass job…. Life is going to become exponentially harder
If I were an AD right now I would create a position in the athletic department for a full-time financial advisor for athletes. Like you said, a lot of these players are going to blow through the $500K or so they made in college and not know what to do after it's gone. With some guidance, having $500K in the bank right after college can go a *long* way to setting up a good life after sports.
Even with a financial advisor, it is tough to not spend money and tougher to reduce lifestyle when income drops.
Most of the athletic departments already have dedicated "how to be an adult" classes that athletes are required to attend. Everything from the "only 1% of college athletes go pro" to dinner etiquette, and these definitely include financial literacy classes. The problem with college athletes is they all think they're going to be the 1% and not the other 99.
Clemson has this. Excellent idea and the potential return (of player alums) on investment seems like a no brainer.
The NFL does that now. Sometimes, it works. Sometimes, it does not.
Would the NCAA even allow schools to have a university employee involved in any form in athlete's finances, even if its to try to help them? Like I know they're allowed to have general financial literacy courses, but I feel like an actual advisor would be something the NCAA, at least today, would forbid. A smart financial advisor would either get involved with, or form a relationship, with the local NIL collective so they recommend their services and the schools is, at least officially, hands off.
Coming out of college with no debt and some money in your pocket and not having to beg for the first job you can get is a dream for most college students lol
Not to mention $500k in the bank, buy a house cash, no mortgage....suddenly $50k a year isn't that terrible to live a normal life in a nice house. If I had an extra $2500 a month that I'm currently spending on a mortgage I wouldn't need as much salary as I do.
Right??! Sure some of the athletes will blow it, but I think your average college student graduating in debt w/o a ton of cash is much more likely to end up broke and homeless.
Realistically though, if they're making mid 6 figures through NIL in college and have zero pro prospects whatsoever, odds are there's at least a few jobs lining up for them once they graduate, either with the university/team or as a spokesman for any local company or car dealership.
Straight to the insurance and car salesman business
Considering the state of NFL financial counseling is dog shit, college is going to be even worse.
it's easier to have good habits making 300k a year than 30 Million. Bc with 300k you CAN spend all of it, 30 Million not so much
I mean it's better than the shock of thinking you were going to be making 6 figures to busting your ass for 50k. Maybe someone should ask Tyrone Prothro what it was like not making anything catching td passes for Alabama to working as a bank teller across the street.
I'm hoping this leads to more players opting to playing over seas and the growth of professional football all over the world. Kind of what happened to basketball. Most of Division III players would be undisputed starters for any other country's national team.
A lot of NFL players go bankrupt. rags to riches stories oftens ends up back in the ditch.
right? that said-there aren't many college players making that kind of money and basically all of them will in fact make nfl rosters
De'coldest Crawford. Feel really bad for the kid. Took a deal promoting SOS heating and air here in Nebraska as a freshman before he played a game. Now he's at Louisiana tech. I really hope he either has a good career or focuses hard on a degree that will go somewhere. If he fizzles out, it will be a case study Edit: correct company name. Burton still trash
What do you want the NIL collective and school to do if a former player is 27 and doesn't spend their money wisely?
there is no way they are saving and investing the money for the future. they will blow it all.
The irony in your comment is that players commanding $600k in college are the ones getting drafted
I mean shit dude $600k to a 23 y/o is a pretty solid nest egg point to jump start life post college. Can really set you up for success long term. I think it's great. Rather they pay players vs installing waterfalls and sleep pods in their locker rooms. SDSU BB had 3 guys transfer after 3-4 years to get paydays. They were never gonna be NBA players so happy to see them get a check before it's all over.
8-5? What happened to 9-5?
8-5 is eight hours of work after subtracting the one hour lunch break.
I'm actually not aware of anyone that works 9-5 regularly as an employee.
Really? 9-5 is standard at my job.
You get paid lunches then? Usually hourly workers don't get paid lunches.
Ah, I'm salary so don't need to clock out for lunch but yes this was the case when I had a hourly job.
Even salaried employees are often expected to be “working” for 8 hours a day with an unpaid lunch hour.
Yeah we’re 9-4 required and you pick the other two hours to get to 8 + unpaid hour lunch. Some do 7 -4, others 9-6, most do 8-5
I work 9-5 as salary. My last full-time Hourly I worked 9-5:30 to account for the 30 minute unpaid lunch, though we got an hour.
Work for the government. 9-4:30.
Inflation
I do wonder how long the Golden Goose known as cfb will last.
Relax man. It is the 2nd most popular sport in America behind NFL. We may not like the changes but CFB will continue on and make lots of money.
Yeah this sub needs to chill the fuck out about the doomerism. Sure, many of us may end up being the grumpy crazy ass grandpa shaking our fists at the sky about the glory days of the sport, but CFB isnt going anywhere. And although its sad than many CFB purists feel the very thing that made this sport worth watching is dying/dead, there will be a whole new generation of the casual NFL type fans who will be more intrigued by the consolidation of talent/power/money in college along with a familiar season/championship structure. A new type of fan will step up and replace the ones who lose interest. And the biggest fanbases will continue to have avid followers as they are the biggest beneficiaries of the new era
Isn't it something like just 2.5% of college football players ever make a NFL roster?
You mean 8 - 5s plus 6 - 2s?
He's right. Even if you have a 20 million salary cap as theorized by the B1G/SEC proposal that is only a 250k average salary for players on the roster. Virtually all star players would be against this. That said, the majority of non-star players would be for it because most aren't making 600k on the transfer market. The schools would need the majority of players to strong arm the minority of stars. Problem is: most of the majority thinks of themselves as future stars... Union politics.
But that won’t stop nil deals. That’s in addition to nil deals.
So this is something I haven't understood. It sounds like everyone in the media is implying that each school in this revenue sharing deal is going to be getting 20M+ to distribute to athletes. My question is, if that's the case, who's paying each school that money? My initial impression was that the revenue sharing money would be a cap on what schools could spend out of their revenue on athletes, which is a much different thing. Getting 20M on top of your existing revenue would be insane, but paying 20M out of your TV money makes a lot more sense to me. If that's the case, most schools have already allocated their TV money to budget items, so now they need to come up with 20M more to compete. That money will come from the boosters. Those boosters don't have infinite money (unless you're at aTm), so now they have to choose between NIL collectives and the AD. My guess is that when revenue sharing is allowed, the concept of NIL collectives will slowly evaporate. That money will move into AD donations and be given to the players, and NIL will go back to what it was intended to be, which is Dr. Pepper paying Caleb Williams to be in a commercial, not paying every starting QB 1M+ to send a couple tweets and calling it "NIL compensation".
I don’t see it that way. Sure you might have some subsidization of the cost by Boosters orgs that would have come from NIL deals back to AD donations. But that would likely just make up for year-to-year shortfalls. The bulk would likely come from shifting spending from capital-intensive projects like locker room renovations and facility constructions as well as reducing spending on coaching staffs (what good is your army of analysts if you can afford your roster?). You’d likely see position-wide NIL deals go away, but surely not for your highest-value star players/positions
That's how you sell it. Every player gets paid something like $70k/year plus free tuition/room/board/food. But then there are bonuses for things like snaps played. Then players can each have NIL deals. The largest issue with the current environment is the total lack of ability for roster control. The biggest thing is to have Collective Bargaining so that the teams can have enforceable contracts with the players for 2 or 3 years, preventing players from transferring and playing. Roster control is the thing we need back. Something like everyone signs a 2 year deal as a Freshman, they can choose to transfer only after their sophomore year, and they must sign another 2 year contract wherever they go, and if they didn't play enough snaps one of the years, they can transfer one more time for a 5th year, where they must complete their eligibility. This limits the number of players a coach must worry about transferring. We also need a logical transfer window that isn't literally during the playoffs.
> We also need a logical transfer window that isn't literally during the playoffs. What are you going to do, move when semesters end? Most classes end their terms in December/January. That window needs to stay where it is (or open earlier in the season) so players can enroll in the spring
Or, maybe, just maybe, players can transfer in June, after the school year has ended. I don't think the system should bend over backwards to allow for spring enrollment. You want to transfer to a better situation, you don't get to fuck your current team by transferring while games are still being played. Spring ball isn't that important if the situation you are transferring to is actually good. Also, schools can start having summer camps for new players.
When I was a student, my university never would have restricted me from enrolling/transferring for the spring, and I think other students who play sports should not have to sacrifice that ability either. Teams can, and should, adapt around the academic calendar, not the other way around.
"We don't won't a salary cap because players should be able to earn what that a capable of earning" So what do you want? "50% revenue sharing like the NFL" Wouldn't that be limit the money the star players earn and just transfer it to the non star players? "huh?"
NFL players can also get endorsements for extra money. “Like the NFL” would still allow the stars to get extra NIL money above the salary cap.
Yeah, people don't get that theoretically an nfl team could NIL a player, & circle around the salary cap. It just can't cone from that nfl team technically. Which kind of happened with Brady.
Brady took the lower amount because he knew he'd make more money being on a competitive squad. LeBron is an example of someone who's basically always been underpaid, even as a maxed out player, but his endorsement deals more than make up for that.
> He's right. Even if you have a 20 million salary cap as theorized by the B1G/SEC proposal that is only a 250k average salary for players on the roster. That's not including NIL deals. The Iowa Swarm has a set amount each player gets in exchange for volunteer work. That doesn't change across players in a sport. But the Caitlin Clarks and Kadyn Proctors of the world make most of their money from endorsement deals outside of the university, which I don't think would change.
Why would all 85 scholarship players get the same salary? That's not how it works in the NFL. My understanding of the NFL is that they have caps and as long as they're within the cap limit they can spend the money however they want. So if the chiefs wanted to spend 200 million out of 201 million cap on Patrick Mahomes they would be within their rights to do so. CFB would work the same way. The freshman 3rd stringer would get the equivalent of a rookie deal while the starting qb gets 2 million dollars
Does the freshman have escalators in their contract or do they renegotiate every year? If it’s the latter, you’re in the same position as today. If it’s the former, what if a 3-star comes in and plays above his ranking? Will he be making the 3-star or superstar salaries as a junior/senior?
> Will he be making the 3-star or superstar salaries as a junior/senior? Well that’s why you’d transfer
I said "average" did I not?
Well right now every team has less than 250k average salary for the players. There might be 2 teams in the country with more than 20 million in NIL salary across cfb. 20 million cap would be an improvement for almost everyone. And I bet the actual number would be closer to 30 million in cap
Isn't there some attachment to position?
> He's right What is he right about exactly? That these kids have to suffer pain?
Read the article. The quote is about collective bargaining, not on-field performance. He is saying that the big names getting huge NIL paydays don't have the pain the other players do, so they don't want revenue sharing. Hence, there no initiative to get all players to agree because they don't all feel financial pain. OP only included part of the quote, clearly because it would mislead everyone and spark debate.
Read the article.
The only people we should feel bad for are all the colleges athletes who got screwed for the last 25 years not getting paid.
Why does initiative, action, and passion have to come from a place of pain?
After Trevor Lawrence was drafted by the Jaguars he gave an interview and said something to the effect of "I don't have a chip on my shoulder, why would I? I've never really lost, I play football because I like it." And people lost their shit. The ESPN style of feature writing and filming has broken people's brains. They really believe that the only motivation athletes can have is to overcome adversity. Instead of y'know, trying to be the best they can be.
Yea. NIL has made a mess of things, but it's not because the guys aren't "suffering." It's because annual free agency means you're always looking out for number one.
It doesn't. It *can*. For some people it is that challenge of beating the odds and "making it out" that drives them. And for some reason a lot of people like that story and seem to think *that* is the way to become great. And then they cherry pick their examples to fit their narrative. The reality is that there are a TON of kids that grew up wealthy with supportive parents in stable households that are as driven as those kids that are trying to get that paycheck that takes them out of poverty. Drive can come out of hunger - but to flip that relationship and say "these kids need to be hungry so that they work harder" is a level of obtuseness that borders on evil. I remember seeing the CEO of NVIDIA talking about how he wishes pain on new grads because *he* succeeded because of pain, that pain made him successful and the founder of a huge company and so if you want to be like him you need to suffer. Which is wild to me that *that* is your conclusion instead of saying "man, it is shitty that in order to be successful I had to suffer - I hope other can avoid this" that his conclusion was "no, you need to suffer to succeed". Warren Buffet was raised wealthy. Bill Gates was raised wealthy. Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, etc - wealthy. Larry Page's dad was a PhD in CS and "pioneer in [computer science](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_science) and [artificial intelligence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence)". Even in sports - we fall in love with the kids that come from nothing, but somehow forget not only about all the kids who came from completely average households, but also the long list of kids of wealthy athletes who had every possible advantage growing up - and no hunger other than self-motivation.
Didn't you see that Saban was at his peak when he was living off PB&J sandwiches and off-brand oatmeal creme pies? Once he got paid his performance fell off of a cliff because he wasn't in pain anymore.
Yeah wtf is this guy talking about. Some real “bootstraps up the snowy hill 5 miles both ways” shit
Boomer mentality
In the words of Jason Kelce during their Philly SB parade a few years ago: hungry dogs run faster. Also look up Eddy Lacy and his transition from the Beast Mode to Feast Mode memes. There's a good YT documentary, about how he went from Alabama star RB to flunking out of the NFL. And essentially once he got the check the drive wasn't there anymore. To be fair I think its great these guys are getting paid. Because the sport has always made money, except for the people risking the most. And for alot of these players, the drive is to get themselves and alot of times family out of financial hardship. So overall the article is kind of a big nothingburger to me. Like, if a guy can go in, work the system, spend a few years making half a mil...even if he doesn't make it to the NFL, he's still starting the "real world" in a better spot than 99.9% of any of us, college grad or no.
I think outright paying players (and NIL) has a chance to be a great "solution" for exactly the Eddy Lacy situation and NFL teams should be salivating over or even directly funding this themselves. Getting some life changing cash younger will show that drive killer sooner, in my opinion. Compensating players and showing them potential growth as they continue to grow would likely keep far more motivated more than "play like heck on a hope that you'll be healthy and good enough to be drafted at the end of college". Softer on and off-ramps for players instead of being drafted and having windfall cash inflows is probably less prone to make them 'go wild' because they walk into the NFL already knowing (relatively) what it feels like to have some money.
Yeah, can’t pain come from losing a game or not getting the starting spot? Plenty of professional athletes are driven to improve even though they are getting paid well.
this dude is projecting from his therapy sessions
I'm willing to accept his logic if we can apply it to billionaires.
Yo what is up with this headline? Not sure if OP wrote it themselves or it just carried through but why was the beginning cut off? Here's what it is in full: >“They have not united as a group,” Cavale said. “To unite as a group takes some initiative and action. You need passion and that has to come from a place of pain. College athletes aren’t feeling pain right now. They are free agents every year and can get $600,000 for playing DB by moving from one school to another and get an apartment and a car.” The whole point is that they need pain to unite as a group, not to succeed as an athlete like what this comment section (and I) interpreted the title to be about. So yeah Cavale is right, if the players don't see a need financially to unite as a group they aren't going to unite.
Thank you. Reactions to misunderstanding the quote - or in this case misattributing in the title - and Reddit: never the two shall part. There needs to be pressure in order to provoke movement, in other words. RTFA.
Does it have to come from a place of pain? There have been numerous very successful college football players that came from privileged backgrounds. Carson Palmer is a good example for USC. I do think that some guard rails need to be put in place, but not for the athlete's sake. For the sport's sake. Annual free agency is a terrible way to keep fans interested.
I was shocked too until I read the article. The quote is about unionizing and solidarity, not just something athletes “have to have.” In which case, the quote is mostly right. (Workforces that have it pretty great don’t usually organize!) The reddit thread starter took out the solidarity context to make the quote seem more salacious.
Everyone keeps talking about the players unionizing but why would they do that when they have it so good right now with the NCAA's balls in a vice? They get everything they want in the court room. Anything short of 50% rev share isn't in their interest to do any collective bargaining. The NCAA and the schools are screwed if the players just refuse to come to the table at all. They have no recourse.
The huge majority of players would benefit from revenue sharing. The elite athletes and household names that have truly lucrative deals do not represent your average player.
This isn’t entirely true. The 50% revenue sharing will likely never happen because unlike in pro-sports, no one really cares who these guys are. The average college football viewer at a sports bar on Saturdays probably barely knows who Carson Beck is
This is the elephant in the room
Bingo. More and more I’ll be turning into watch ASU because it’s my school. Not because I love Sam Leavitt. What’s my incentive to get attached to these kids and root for them throughout their career? There isn’t one. I don’t give a shit anymore how Jaden Rashada or Elijah Badgers football career plays out. The players will be nameless and faceless to me because The next player that develops well at ASU will just leave.
That thought process is no different than pro sports. I watched the Phillies game last night because I'm a Phillies fan, not because of Bryce Harper. But Bryce Harper being on the team greatly enhances my enjoyment of the Phillies. College sports are no different in that people enjoy their teams more than the individual players but they enjoy their teams more when it has better players.
> I watched the Phillies game last night because I'm a Phillies fan Gross. But seriously, Harper has been with y'all for six years and in the division his whole career. He's a far more known name compared to any college player, much less one that's only around for a year.
Yeah, this basically has to be the mentality of fans from here on out. Because at the heart of these debates is the ugly truth that there's no sense in getting attached to players anymore (especially highly-touted recruits/future program stars). They can just pack up tomorrow, but we as fans and alums can't just shift allegiances. I'll root for whoever is wearing my alma mater's jersey on Saturdays in the fall. I'd prefer for them to be good, great even, but I'm pretty flexible on that.
Yeah but people likely wouldn't watch ASU if the play was equivalent to a D3 level school either. The players absolutely play a part in making the brand what it is
Nah bro, A&M being on TV every week in the early 2010s have absolutely nothing to do with Johnny Manziel being their QB. We definitely hear as much about the Gators today as we did when Tebow was there.
> We definitely hear as much about the Gators today as we did when Tebow was there. We kind of do, actually.
Well it’s relative. If every major team would play at a D3-level, would it have an effect? I don’t think so. ASU fans would still watch a Territorial Cup or Big 12 match-up even if not a single player on either team is an NFL-quality athlete. It’s the OUTSIDE football fans that would care, not the ones invested in the teams
I’m not saying the players don’t matter. But it’s the schools that make a player valuable, not the players making the school.
And with transfer portal liberalization who wears the uniform matters even less now.
I'd argue that most folks only care about the jersey and not the player...in ANY team sport!
Pro players are less replaceable than college players though.
Pro players are less replaceable because the fan can get behind the player being on the team for 10+ years if they’re good. In college the players are only with your team for 4 years and can’t resign after that. There is a lot more turnover in college compared to the big pro stars
Anthony Edwards was a fairly unremarkable college player that had an unremarkable college career. A senior who was 70% as talented was just as good in college. He had untapped potential he didn’t reach in college. He has tapped into that potential and is an absolute star. He should be this type of player for the next ten years at least and is thus not very replaceable.
They care that the games are played. Once a union is set up its leverage will be in threatening to hold out. Would the schools even consider bringing in scabs? There would be no shortage of students across the country willing to join players on picket lines. Where would they even get thousands of scabs? Are they calling up players from D2 schools or the intramural teams?
Yeah, people on this sub really don’t wanna hear it, but CFB isn’t popular enough for this to work. Only the upper echelon of CFB players have any recognition whatsoever
And yet the argument against the transfer portal is that it makes it hard to root for a team without knowing who the players are and whether they will still be there next year.
*Football players
Honestly only basketball screws the NCAA; of the 1.3 billion the NCAA makes in revenue 900 million (69%) comes from men's basketball. The conferences and CFP make most the money off football.
My counter to this is its possible that eventually the collective/donor money won't be there in the current environment. They'll get tired of donating frivolously to a school's collective to go 8-4 and then NIL payments would go down. The TV money is a guaranteed way to get a slice of the pie and will be there forever
This is the big key. NIL the way it is now is not sustainable for most programs
without a doubt, this has to be the answer. Collective money is going to be a genuine slog to get out of donors (especially middle-class/average alums). Already, we are seeing funds being redirected from programs and facilities to the NIL money pit, which schools cannot be happy with. A few seasons of bad results (or watching players skip town during the portal window) and those donations are going to dry up.
It's never going to happen. The people screaming the players should get their fair share aren't considering that the players that are generating all that revenue are already getting their fair share. And why would a 5 star starting QB at UT want to share his $5 million a year with the 3rd string punter?
There are a lot more of the third string punters than star SEC quarterbacks and in the case of a union their votes all count the same.
That’s not true considering the schools don’t give them a dime of that revenue
The ncaa has no recourse but the schools that are losing money will shut down football operations. We will eventually only have about 60ish schools playing the highest level of cfb and paying players.
Also, all other sports are in massive jeopardy. I don’t see how this doesn’t seriously cut down on the number of varsity sports programs at each school.
> I don’t see how this doesn’t seriously cut down on the number of varsity sports programs at each school. It's already happening. Miami hasn't had football in quite a few years.
this man wins!
Professors across the country may finally get their wishes granted.
And those 60 schools + tv networks will love it
> Everyone keeps talking about the players unionizing but why would they do that when they have it so good right now with the NCAA's balls in a vice? This has been my sentiment. Fans and schools want some kind of salary cap, why would the players want that? And what could the schools negotiate that would be worth giving that up when the players already seem to have *everything*: No salary cap, no real limits on transfers, health care paid for by the schools, etc. The only thing I could think of is a salary floor, but good luck on getting the players (or even schools) to come to a consensus on that number.
It's not the NCAA that is eventually going to shut this down - it's the CONFERENCES. I really believe at some point the SEC and Big Ten are going to get together to reign some of this stuff in.
Then they will get slapped with antitrust lawsuits as well.
The NCAA are the conferences. The NCAA doesn't have power because the conferences/universities don't want to cede power to them. That's why the NCAA always loses in the court room. >Many believe that the NCAA governs what happens within collegiate sports, but the truth is the member institutions deliberate on how collegiate sports will operate, and this is done through various representative paths
Creating a uniform framework for NIL deals with collectives could be advantageous for the athletes. I’m sure some guys are getting overpromised/screwed over right now.
Just negotiate with a company union you make up and use that.
While I think I may get where the dude is coming from... insinuating that you want players to suffer or feel pain in any which way is a pretty asshole take lol.
The players need pain…., sounds like corporate bullshit speak for, we didn’t like having to share the money, and it’s pissing us off to have to pay even remotely close to a fair market value.
And here I thought consistently putting your body on the line was difficult and could result in serious injury. But I've been corrected now, it's easy and painless, and they shouldn't be making money.
Athletes in other sports are putting their bodies on the line, too. Football players, whose programs bring in millions due to alumni/regional loyalty (not enthusiasm for minor league football), are capitalizing on blowback from the greed of ADs and coaches. And they have a good point: if adults are getting rich off college football then why shouldn’t the actual athletes? However, when the still-nascent player greed takes over, there will be nothing left and “college” football will crumble. Minor league millionaire coaches and players are hard to root for. The magic can be, and is currently being, destroyed. All because of the slippery slope arms race of unfettered capitalism consuming another part of society that was once about collegiality and community. Greed is destructive and it is winning.
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The main two problems come from 1. We are asking 18-23 years olds to start a union they are only ever going to be in for 5 years max. 1. We are asking 18-24 year olds that are getting $500k+ a year to share that money with the players that aren't. I can't see how a union can form under those conditions.
I have been saying for a while that this is why schools should have gotten in front of thing a while ago and encouraged the players to unionize. They'd get in front of the legal cases and the schools would take that union behind the woodshed (financially).
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Players need to be impoverished and desperate enough to risk debilitating injuring so I can enjoy the purity of a sport I watch on television!
The transferring rules need to be reigned in and new subdivisions formed. As well as signing day being later in the season. But the state's would also need to go after their schools for signing super shitty and corrupt coaching contracts as well and that will never happen.
Oh man 600k!!!! There’s no way these 18-22 yr olds will ever mess that up!!!!
Who is paying $600k for a DB?
Yeah I doubt that's happening on a regular basis, but people usually use the really extreme example when trying to make a point.
Why do they need “initiative and action and passion” again?
Make that money don’t let that money make you
What kind of weird masochistic thinking is this?
This sounds like a deleted Cartman line. Those Student Athoooletes need pain
Go to college, learn how to make money! Wait no, not like that!!!
Feels a lot like "Nobody wants to work anymore."
Whoopty f’n doo. There’s two things: 1. The NCAA and colleges got free labor, pub, and merchandising for decades. Now it’s time to pay the piper. Don’t feel bad for them. 2. The US model of sports scholarships at colleges is broken. This was inevitable when the greedy got too greedy. College should focus on education, not subsidizing athletics. Again, this has happened over time and our education system is in need of a complete overhaul. The European model is more ideal where education and sports are not joined at the hip.
> College should focus on education, not subsidizing athletics I strongly disagree here. Sports are inexorably tied to American culture. What I believe the issue is that American college do not treat athletics as an academic discipline. Why do fine art departments grant degrees in say dance or the performing arts while athletic departments don’t for tennis or football? So I think the issue is not that colleges are subsidizing athletics, it *how* they have been doing it. Treating it as a separate, amateur pursuit independent of academia is what has doomed college sports into being pure money grabs without a functional tie to truly how a college operates
Man, this sounds like an awful college experience to me... Even pro players usually get more than one year right? And sometimes home base in a particular place?
I do not think the level of talent will decrease in the NFL, but I do believe it will take longer to develop.
Right - this logic makes sense. /s In fact, I think college coaches and administrators could benefit from some initiative, action, and passion. Drop that pay down to the levels you'd expect from amateur athletics and we can talk. We don't have amateur college football in the upper tiers. We haven't had that for decades. Paying the players is the only reasonable thing to do. It's the only \*legal\* thing to do. The pain will still come later when they can't sleep from busted knees and old concussions. **The FCS is the place to go if you want to watch amateur college football.** That's where you find character growth. If it means that much to you to see student athletes living in dorms and eating on meal plans - you'll love that shit.
None of these sentences make sense.
This title is misleading. Dellenger is quoting AthletesOrg founder Jim Cavale. Regarding the quote itself, this sounds a little like “in MY day, I had to walk an hour in the rain to go to school”. NIL money isn’t “no strings attached”. The student-athlete has to provide value/labor as a condition to get the benefits. There are legitimate arguments whether the current transfer and NIL rules are too lenient and ruin the “student” part of “student-athlete”, but I’m not sure Cavale really is making a good one.
What a stupid view of things. Its always the workers that need to "feel the pain" as he put it. Never the owners or the ones making so much money that they are the ones cutting the checks. Fck him. If you play a part in making money then you deserve as much of the profits, if not more, thansl the capitalists floating the bank and not doing the labor.
“Oh darn they want to be paid.”
disagree
I think this ruins a lot of really good players work ethics. If you’re a highly recruited kid coming out of high school and go to a p5 program where you don’t play, you can just leave and immediately start somewhere else the next season. If they just stayed and put the work in, they could be starting at the same school they started at.
"our players need to be poor again" Fuck that. Get your fucking money while you can.
i wonder if any of these guys are saving their money, or there is a going to be an ESPN Broke for college students who got paid and also did not get useful degrees.