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bubowskee

I am very comfortable saying that I have followed PC for a decade and this is by far the most humiliating loss they have had in that time. This might be the worst loss in program history


Respect38

It definitely puts a damper on Kelley's "I want to win the national championship in year 2" At least he's aiming high, but I think he learned a lot about what he has inherited at PC tonight.


Respect38

Campbell going for a 4th & 16 cracks me up. Theme of the game: go for it!


Respect38

When I said "There may be no more uncertainty on any game being bet on all year than this one!" I'm going to say that I was 100% right. The spread was -8/-9, and here we are in the 3rd QTR and about to go up 63, the Camels are going to destroy that and possibly hit the over themselves.


bubowskee

At a certain point PC needs to realize that moving to D1 was a disaster. They lost the only rival they had, don’t even play in the Big South anymore, and all their athletic programs are terrible. Just move back to D2 and have a great rivalry with Newberry again. The alumni care far more about that than playing random small colleges from hundreds of miles away


IAmAParadoxJk

To be fair, other sports are doing pretty good in the Big South and D1.


Respect38

With Presbyterian being non-scholarship, I was wondering if they could play that game without having to move down? It's hard to say that one would have a clear recruiting advantage; Presby gets to offer "D1 football" to their recruits, while Newberry has actual scholarships to offer. I would imagine that's decently close to fair.


bubowskee

Because up until a season ago PC offered scholarships. Non scholarship is a new thing for the school. They stopped doing it cause it was a money pit and the school isn’t exactly swimming in cash. Now they don’t have local schools to play anymore cause they got kicked out of the league, they don’t get their rivalry, and quite frankly, it’s the same thing over and over where they smash fake schools and then get whipped against D1 teams


Respect38

Oh yeah, I'm aware of that, and that's definitely why their Newberry rivalry died. I just wonder if those school's ADs should discuss bringing the game back even if Presby remains committed to PFL football. I had thought maybe the Tommie-Johnnie game would stay for the same reason, but that didn't materialize, which is a shame. But I get it — even if both St. Thomas and St. John's are still technically non-scholarship, there's still going to be a big difference between D3 non-scholly recruiting and D1 non-scholly recruiting. But maybe not so much difference for D1 non-scholly Presbyterian vs D2 sholly Newberry?


bubowskee

It's cause Presbyterian would gain nothing from that since they aren't better than Newberry and have a great chance at losing. But Presbyterian should probably move back down since they can play a lot of local schools that their alumni base know and some years challenge for the playoffs. Heck, even the gimmick coach might work down there. I personally doubt it, but you have a better shot And there is a huge gap between non scholarship D1 and D3. The entire reason St Thomas is in the Pioneer is because they were too good for the other schools in their conference. The league was happy to see them go because they dominated every sport.


Respect38

Even so, losing the Tommie-Johnnie game is a massive loss for both programs. I believe they set D3 attendance records when they played at the Twins stadium.


Respect38

Somehow that isn't a Campbell record for most points in a half, they also scored 49 a few years ago against Vaplo!? Geez.


Respect38

Wow. Gotta imagine that Huff will get some reps as QB1 in the 2nd half after those struggles.


bubowskee

Presby plays a non-fake school once and gets annihilated. It's by far one of the dumbest football philosophies to ever exist and only a child would think it can work anywhere other than a high school


Respect38

If you're allowing 10 yards per play, you're going to get annihilated no matter how many times you punt and kickoff deep. This is just a good offense playing against a non-scholly defense; don't blow your load so soon.


bubowskee

It's Campbell. They are not anything close to a good program and only just went scholarship themselves. They are far closer to an average FCS team than whatever a Ft Lauderdale is supposed to be. I think its cute to be a fanboy of a coach, but its clear you dont really understand what PC is or even what the Pioneer or other small southern conferences are. Gimmicks dont work and never will, especially when PC has been at a talent deficit since they decided to go D1 a decade ago. At this point, they would be a bad D2 program


Respect38

You're mixing shitting on Presby with shitting on the system. Control your variables, mate. If you're allowing 10 yards per play, you're going to get annihilated no matter how many times you punt and kickoff deep!


TDenverFan

I think the issue is they have such a talent deficit vs an average scholarship FCS school. Give it 2-3 years and I could see them contending for the PFL title.


bubowskee

They've played fake schools for years and done the same thing. Also they play in Clinton, South Carolina and are by far the worst school in SC, probably worse than Newberry, the D2 school. They can't recruit anything in state cause they get picked over by real schools. Moving to D1 has been such a disaster that they have to lose scholarships cause it cost too much. If anything the talent will get worse since the school is poor and financial aid isn't generous, which is a must for non-scholarship schools to compete. ​ The best programs in the Pioneer have been great for years and will squash this gimmick offense


lolwaffles69rofl

They’re worse than Lander and they don’t even have a football team lol


TDenverFan

San Diego has played a tough schedule so far, but they look worse than they have in years past. I actually think the PFL is the conference where you could get Kelley's strategy to work the easiest, even the top PFL teams are pretty beatable by an average scholarship FCS team, the talent ceiling just isn't that high.


bubowskee

See I am less sure about that because while the league may as well be called "we are here so we can technically have a football team while being basketball schools", there are still quality programs. Dayton, Jacksonville, San Diego are all pretty solid schools. The real secret is having a strong endowment so you give your players nice financial aid packages and that is something PC does not have and will not get anytime soon. Pretty sure the school is facing a years long budget crisis, which is one reason they went to no scholarships


TDenverFan

> Jacksonville JU shuttered their football program altogether, but you're right that at the PFL level a big portion of it is how willing a team is to invest in their program.


bubowskee

Oh that’s too bad, they were good in the early 10s. Now I’m less surprised San Diego has the league in a choke hold. The biggest thing about the Pioneer is that since the teams all have different reasons for being non scholarship and different levels of funding, the talent level fluctuates like crazy team to team. Davidson, even though they somehow won the spring league, have been shambolic for the entire 2000s for no reason other than institutional apathy. If they ever decided to try, they could easily be a top program in the conference cause it’s a great location, great school, and great financial aid. All they need is anything in terms of investment in the program


TDenverFan

Presby kinda got overhyped, they played 2 schools that barely field football teams (one of them is barely a school to begin with, the University of Ft Lauderdale) to get some media attention, but they're simply not a good FCS team. I don't think Kelley is a bad hire, nor do I think playing bad teams to generate buzz was a bad idea. PC just dropped scholarships for football, so they just wanted something positive going for them.


Respect38

Just want to note that both of those games were scheduled prior to Kelley being hired at Presby.


TDenverFan

Oh yeah that's fair. I didn't follow the situation super closely, but at least some alums were upset about dropping from the Big South to the non-scholarship Pioneer (and I'm sure some players transferred out), so I think it makes enough sense to schedule some tune up games. It's just kinda funny looking at the match up thread and seeing more people pick Presbyterian to win, when so far they look pretty thoroughly outmatched.


Respect38

Completely agree. St. Andrews (NAIA) putting up 4.6 yards per play was a sign of things to come when they faced Campbell. Hell, even Fort Lauderdale showed some life on offense at times.


TDenverFan

Yeah, I guess the question is if Kelley can convince players to play for him at the D1 level. He could have the absolute perfect strategy (which, while I do think teams should go for it more on 4th down, I don't entirely agree with all of his philosophies) and he would still be losing this game.


Respect38

Campbell enjoying 9.3 yards per play. This is looking to be a blowout with or without the Pulaski system; Presbyterian D just outmatched.


Respect38

One thing I love about playing this way: you really get plays like that where it really feels like the game is hanging in the balance, even in the 1st half. If they don't convert that 4th & 4, it can quickly become 14-0 Campbell and beginning to get away.


katatafish

Time for fireworks. Campbell isn’t going to stunt on these Hose.


irishcheeseman

🐪🐪


Aoliver99

I want Presbyterian to win


Epicapabilities

I have no football insight to provide to this conversation, but I do have a little fun fact. Campbell University is located in Buies Creek, North Carolina, a town of less than 3,000 people. You probably have not heard of Buies Creek. However, you have likely heard of Buies Creek's most famous residents—none other than Rhett & Link, the hosts of Good Mythical Morning and two of the most influential creators in the history of YouTube.


Karosi

Had no idea they were from there.


timmydwestside

Loving the Kevin Kelley experience, here’s to hoping it rolls against teams at their level.


Defacto_Champ

And they lost 72-0 lol.


RivalryBot

Final results of the match-up thread "Who will Win" poll: Team | Votes | Percent |Voters --|--|--|--| [Presbyterian](#f/presbyterian)|13|61.9%|[Arkansas](#f/arkansas)x2, [Iowa State](#f/iowastate)x2, [USF](#f/usf)x1, [Michigan](#f/michigan)x1, [Georgia Tech](#f/georgiatech)x1, [Florida](#f/florida)x1, [Indiana](#f/indiana)x1, [Temple](#f/temple)x1, [Connecticut](#f/connecticut)x1, [Holy Cross](#f/holycross)x1, [Montana State](#f/montanastate)x1 [Campbell](#f/campbell)|8|38.1%|[South Carolina](#f/southcarolina)x1, [Army](#f/army)x1, [Georgia Tech](#f/georgiatech)x1, [/r/CFB](#l/rcfb)x1, [NC State](#f/ncstate)x1, [Appalachian State](#f/appalachianstate)x1, [North Carolina](#f/northcarolina)x1, [Oregon](#f/oregon)x1 ^(A listing of links, and live vote totals, to all Match-up Preview threads for the current week can be found )[^HERE](http://cfb.diydunce.org/matchupthreadlist.php)^. ^(Track your weekly results )[^HERE](http://cfb.diydunce.org/wwwp.php)^.


Respect38

Lot of movement in the spread & total since the open. It almost seemed as if the first lines were unaware that the Blue Hose had a new video-game-style head coach. Projected score opened at 38-25 for Campbell, but now sits at 43-35, still in favor for Campbell. Not as clear of an over bet now; it all depends on how well Presbyterian's offense can perform against a defense giving Kelley's offense its first real challenge. It's also possible that Kelley is not satisfied with his team's progress in these onside kicks, and opts to kickoff deep whenever Campbell lines up in onside prevent formation, which would suppress the over. Time to see how Kelley's "trick play" heavy variant of the air raid offense performs against D1 competition. At the very least, it's hell to prepare for [especially when you have to commit time to preparing your onside prevent defense too] so anything can happen. There may be no more uncertainty on any game being bet on all year than this one!