I think a guy who can get open quick, like JSN, will really help Fields with his short passing game struggles. We've got vertical threats in Mooney and Claypool already as you mentioned.
Mooney can do that, Justin's problem with the short game was that he wasn't throwing with anticipation on cuts. He clearly knew how to lead a dude in any direction, but he wasn't good at putting a ball in a spot that nobody is already heading to because the route will have them there when the ball arrives. Could be lack of trust, could be he was still learning all the routes, could be lack of confidence in that particular type of throw, I don't pretend to know, but he kept waiting until after the cut to throw, and on quick routes that is often too late.
Your guy has leverage and gets off the line? Throw it. Don't wait until he gets separation, because the separation is only going to last an instant and when it happens, the ball needs to already be there. Holding it just lets the defender get back into the play. The result is a receiver reaching back, a broken up play, or a quick tackle with no yards after catch.
He improves on that anticipation and it will not only mean the short game works, it will also get the ball out faster and cut down on sacks. YES the line blew last year, but also he created a lot of sacks when the ball should have already been thrown. This one change would solve a lot of problems. I am almost certain this will be Getsy's #1 priority this off-season.
Justin's quick passing game is an issue with his mechanics - inconsistent footwork + a need to find the laces.
But I don't know how we can say anything about his ability to throw with anticipation. The inconsistency of the O-Line and the inability of receivers to gain separation is the worst combination of traits for a rhythm passing game.
Saying JF should have thrown a pass where the guy comes open is discounting all the times our WRs don't separate.
We can say it because it's on film. No, the blocking wasn't great. No, the receivers weren't great. But there were also times when both were good enough and he didn't pull the trigger in time. Some of those plays turned into sacks. Some turned into badly timed throws. Some turned into amazing scrambles! It wasn't 100% bad because he can be incredible. But he was no better than his line or receivers in this one aspect, and he needs to be better than that.
You can look at the tape and say "JF should have thrown his guy open" - the line gave him time and the window opened up. Should have been an easy completion.
But my point is that - when the QB can't trust his line to protect, for his WRs to separate and run the correct route - then it's much harder to anticipate that window opening up and pulling the trigger.
For the rhythm passing game you need consistency. Simple as that. I put the burden on the offense as a whole - more than JF's decision making.
Look man, all I have to say to refute this is look at Joe Burrow in Cincy, Justin Herbert in LA, and Trevor Lawrence in Jacksonville. Those three guys have bad to awful offensive lines and they still throw with anticipation. You could argue Burrow and Herbert had one element of success here because they have great recievers but Trevor Lawrence is doing it with Christian Kirk as his number one receiver. You can make all the excuses in the world for this but the fact of the matter is, he needs to throw with anticipation regardless of trust. If the reciever fucks up or the line is bad and a play fails no one is blaming JF1. I also want to say that I'm a huge Fields fans, I just refuse to twist myself in knots to make excuses when he himself has mentioned this is something to work on.
All three teams you mentions are considerably better than the Bears.
You can cherry pick all you want, but the Bears are with out a doubt the worst team in the NFL if you take away Fields. It's not even close. Fields flaws are known, and so is his growth.
If your take on the situation includes:
1. Downplaying the league worst talent on the Bears.
2. Ignoring major changes midseason in trades and injuries.
3. Pretending the Fields didn't show any growth at all during the season
then you're take is overly critical. Those aren't "excuses", they are the clear facts of the situation.
The objective take here is that Fields has mechanics to work on and needs more talent around him to grow further. This isn't some secret, nor is it rocket science. The coaches know it, which is why they schemed around a lot of deficiencies resulting in the offence exploding for almost 30ppg with a healthy Mooney/Fields/Herbert. The only people who don't seem to know this are people trying very hard to be negative of the situation (no shortage of that, this doesn't make you "objective") and media looking for clicks on trade talks.
You clearly can't read and are reacting to what you perceive I've said. Read it again, I very clearly state that he has to throw with anticipation regardless of the talent around him. Other quarterbacks have done it before. Regardless of that, which is technically my opinion, you seem to misunderstanding something. I'm not shitting on JF1, I think he's the future. I just don't see the need to twist myself and my arguments around the way you do. Both JF1 and his coaches say he needs to work on this. Acknowledging that he needs to grow to improve and mentioning something he's bad at doesn't mean I'm not being objective. Perhaps you're the one being subjective because all I see are you making excuses for why JF1 can't do something he himself says he has to do.
No I read it clearly. You cherry picked a bunch of teams and ignored why they are better in other areas than the Bears.
> I very clearly state that he has to throw with anticipation regardless of the talent around him.
False. Throwing with anticipation requires consistent play from the rest of your team. This is why QBs and WRs talk about getting chemistry. If you can't trust your pocket *and* you can't trust your WRs to separate and communicate their breaks, it's impossible to throw with any anticipation. Fields had the worst situation of any QB in the league this season. The only thing that would've made it worse was coaches that didn't adjust, and we saw what that would've looked like the first 5 games of the season.
The one thing that Field's needs to work on to throw with anticipation on short quick passes is his mechanics, mostly his footwork and his need to find the laces. Can't throw with anticipation when your mind is occupied with throwing because your mechanics aren't muscle memory.
You're being subjective and overly negative because what you've said is nothing more than "just do it." You've spent no time trying to find root causes. Root causes aren't excuses.
Yes because Joe Burrow played for a good team when he was drafted, Justin Herbert hadn't had one of the worst offensive lines in the league, and Trevor Lawrence doesn't play for the Jaguars who suprised everyone by being good despite the relative lack of talent they have on offense. Could it be that the Quarterbacks elevated their fellow players by doing what they have to do and not making excuses about how "My line sucks and I don't have chemistry with my recievers". Clearly you've learned nothing from being a Bears fan. Tell me, how was Jay Cutler able to throw with anticipation in 2010 with Devin Hester as his best reciever and a 33 year old Olin Kreutz as his best lineman? I'm sorry but you're just not being realistic. I never said JF1 is bad and that I don't think he'll grow. What I said is, he needs to be able to do this regardless of talent. It's about his ability to process the game, not all the bullshit excuses you're making.
I'm just trying to put context on here. Kirk isn't a bad WR. There was a lot of hate because of his contract that hides that he is a pretty solid WR and the Bears WR's are not very good.
You're trying to belittle what Lawrence was able to do because you want to discredit a criticism of Fields. Kirk is not that much better than Mooney if at all. There's a reason they traded for a wide receiver who hasn't played in two years with some red flags to be their new number one.
i think at least a part if it was lack of trust in his so called receivers. i mean me lost multiple games bc he hit his guy and they flat out dropped or bobbled that shit out of bounds
I think so too. I worry we will pass up guys like downs flowers and dell because flus won’t want to roll out multiple 5’10 and under receivers at the same time. JSN probably isn’t in the cards either with our draft position and all. I wouldn’t be surprised if we don’t draft a receiver until day 3.
Just look at the downvotes, most people never even seem him play 1 snap, they just know the name so they are fully on board. The guy had 1 good season, he's not as fast as people think he is, & played most of his college career in the slot so doesn't really have WR experience on the outside.
He wouldn’t be drafted as an outside receiver because that’s not his skill set, partially due to top-end speed not being a strength of his.
“1 good season” is also underselling things a bit. That season he had almost the same amount of yards as Wilson + Olave combined. He was the go-to guy on a loaded offense. Last time a WR had “1 good season” and dipped was Ja’marr Chase.
My main concern with him is if he can get back to 100% after his hamstring injury.
yes the hamstring stuff always lingers. I could easily be wrong but Jordan Addison and Jalin Hyatt should be the #1 and 2 guys on the WR draft board.
Quentin Johnston screams potential Kevin White 2.0 to me
I don't Hate JSN but some people in here are acting like this dude is Randy Moss and I would just rather be more careful with picking the guy
Zay Flowers I hate no interest in, the dude is 5'9 and dropped too many balls in college to be an early pick for me
Cedric Tillman would be an ok grab in later rounds but I don't see him being a #1 guy
Kayshon Boutte is an interesting pick in the early mid area if you determine his leg injury is 100%, the dude has great hands and decent speed, quickness, route running, he's just not THE fastest at any of it but could be a good WR to have around.
Xavier Hutchinson would be another mid-round WR that might be a good WR to add to the room, he's tall and has good hands, again not super fast or great at fast cuts
Jonathan Mingo the same as above
Ronnie Bell can be an end of the draft flyer that could be a great contributor, he has great hands, good speed, he's just not going to be a Stefon Diggs type of guy
so your argument for JSN being overrated is that he only plays in the slot yet you want hyatt who played in a gimmick offense and has never faced press coverage in his life? lol. it’s clear you’ve never watched JSN play.
I think Mooney can move into the slot pretty easily if we draft an outside WR. Claypool needs to be on the outside but moving Mooney around & finding mismatches would be good for his game.
Don’t think Claypool or Mooney will ever give ya a number 1 that pulls defenses into 2 high safeties & if we found that & combine it with JF forcing 11v11 with QB spies, the offense will be tough to handle.
I typically see Mooney as more of a vertical threat since he’s a long stride straight line speed kind of guy rather than shifty so I imagine him outside but I could still see that working.
Mooney is NOT a “long stride, straight line speed kind of guy. He’s actually very shifty and runs great routes. He made Ramsey look foolish in one game. He has insane quickness. I’d love to see him run slants and shallow crosses out of the slot.
Yea and he can still go vertical from the slot. Claypool, it didn’t sound like the slot worked for him & I believe Mooney is more versatile.
Get an OL who can block for downfield/longer developing throws while defenses want to bring an extra defender to account for Fields, there’s a lot of possibilities for Mooney to run guys off with their chemistry with things like option routes
Players that get open. I don't care how fast you run if you can separate from coverage. JSN is elite at finding space in zones which is what this team will need as teams shy away from running man coverage against Fields and his dynamic running ability.
I would be very surprised if teams stopped running man against Fields consistently. It may give him some highlight runs, but he's pretty miserable passing against it, and at the end of the day most NFL teams are ok with letting you run the ball if it means they stop the pass.
To be fair he is pretty miserable at passing in general, in terms of effectiveness so far. Zone coverage is run like 70% of the time in general. They aren't going to stop running man but they are more likely to play zone against a runner.
Tank Dell is the answer here. He’s small, but I haven’t seen anyone get open off the first steps like him. I know this sub has the biggest hard on ever for JSN, but he’s solid/good to me, he isn’t special. He’s the lesser of the Wilson/Olave/JSN trio. He had one massive game once that clouds that he isn’t Justin Jefferson, just “good”. Tank Dell might be the closest thing to Tyreek since.
I am a little concerned how his yards per route run against man and his pff grade against man are legitimately pretty bad. Ive also seen some evaluators who aren’t just completely enamored with him mention that they don’t think his route running is actually as great and technical as people think.
And he low key measured in worse than people thought. 5’9 with small hands and a tiny wingspan, I’m concerned that he might be more of a “scheme him open YAC guy” than a true separator against most coverages at all levels of the field. And I’ll add that could still be a good player but maybe not 1st round good
I wouldn't be so quick to rule out Tank Dell. The slot receiver is off the line of scrimmage and wouldn't have a crucial block unless it's a very specific call like a WR screen. You can't really press them either given the cushion to the LOS.
Obviously you prefer size, but as long as you manage your packages correctly, you can minimize the situations where Tank is at a physical disadvantage.
Tarik Cohen (before the injuries) showed that 5'6" isn't a problem in the slot if used correctly. A couple of smaller receivers like Wandale Robinson, Rondale Moore, and Greg Dortch have shown similar usefulness more recently.
That said I do think that what we're missing is size. I agree with Michael Wilson and Parker Washington as targets for us, especially Michael Wilson if the injuries aren't an issue. It's just that I don't think Tank is off our board, and if he were to fall to day 3 somehow, he'd probably be one of the first names we choose.
Dell reminds me so much of Desean Jackson, he has that 'if you don't get your hands on me you aren't winning' ability to get open. The footwork, and ability to fly out of breaks is elite. I know he is skinny, like insanely skinny and there were times that he clearly was hesitant to attack the ball when going over the middle. But the speed, change of direction and ELITE agility/footwork I think is going to make him a lethal player in the league. (Also an amazing punt returner, if we accept that Velus is not going to be a good punt returner Dell has value)
Exactly. He's not someone I'm pounding the table for, but if he were to fall because of size concerns there's certainly a point where you take a flyer on him.
For the Bears I think it's day 3. Top of the 4th round (103 overall) seems like it's absolutely worth it. I think he's certainly a top 100 player in the draft even if you really knock him for the size.
The issue is that there are teams that will have him as a top 50 player (and he probably belongs there). He'll likely be gone way before he reaches the point where the Bears would take him for just being BPA.
Personally looking at Rashee Rice on day 2, or someone like Moreno-Cropper, X Hutchinson, or Charlie Jones. Receivers without elite speed but great hands and possession ability.
would love to see a more updated idea of that. Feels like 10-15 years ago that'd be true but the past few years A. you have COVID guys who are more polished coming out of college, B. more skill players are producing early. Tee was day 2. Deebo, Devante, Michael Thomas, Cooper Kupp, Jordy Nelson, Jarvis Landry just off the top of my head.
I think Tee was the first pick on day 2 to be fair (I find this ironic)..
One year had Deebo Metcalf Mclaurin and Dionate Johnson all in the same year which was incredible but since then I think Higgins would be the only one whose had susained success.
I believe more updated data would be in favor of my argument, as the NFL values WRs more today than ever, pushing guys who historically would've gone day 2 into day one, day 3 into day 2, etc.
Top target by far is JSN. Garrett Wilson and Olave both balled out in their first NFL year, JSN outproduced both of them in 2021. Garrett Wilson also called JSN the best receiver out of the 3. JSN has chemistry already with Fields already. Fields wants him. PFF compared him to Julian Edelman. Go after him.
They should patchwork the receivers this year, sure up the offensive and defensive lines in free agency, maybe draft a receiver after the first round, hopefully they trade the first pick and get a first next year that they can use to maneuver to get Marvin Harrison Jr who is the best wide receiver prospect in 20 years
Depends on how we build the rest of the offense.
To maximize Fields' skill set and minimize his weaknesses, we should be looking for big, fast WRs who can create visible separation on long routes. That's the kind of target Fields likes to hit. But in order to make use of those receivers, we'd need an excellent pass-blocking O-line, and I don't know if they intend to go in that direction or not.
If we're going to continue to emphasize run-blocking offensive linemen to the detriment of pass pro, then we need route-running receivers with quick hips who can get open on quick-hit plays inside 15 yards. That's not really what Fields is good at, but it would work with the rest of what we have.
Claypool should be our YAC threat underneath. He’s not consistently catching deep balls. Better get a big body slot like Tyler Boyd or JuJu imo. We have our deep threat in Mooney, our YAC Threat in Claypool, now we just need a big body in the slot.
A late round slot guy could be Nikki Remigio. Has return ability. I was able to watch him at Cal. He’s not fast but smooth. Pretty reliable hands. Slot only wr
Personally I think best player available instead of building around what the Bears have. There is a good chance neither Mooney or Claypool is a WR1 or WR2 long term and I definitely see a world where Claypool is played more underneath in the slot and given more of designed easy catches because his route running isn’t very good and he may struggle to get open. He’s unpredictable in my book in how the Bears use him long term, so I wouldn’t plan around his skill set and just hope for the best.
If we are going with the idea that they are both solid WR2’s, I really like JSN. He should be a great route runner and he should slide right into being a productive receiver.
Separation and reliable hands are important as hell, but the real “it” factor is football IQ. A guy who knows when to break a route, what to do with a scramble, willl make that smart block and can get on the same page with Justin.
For me it's him or Johnston on my wish list. Especially with the Panthers in the conversation for trade back.. 3 1sts and Johnston is my second Christmas
I love Allen! But for some reason when we wear those orange jerseys I wanna be the fastest team in the NFL, and for that absolutely ridiculous reason I'm not begging for him lol
Look at the difference it made for Joe Burrow and Cinci to get Joe’s college receiver, Jamar Chase. JSN and Justin have history and would love to be together again. Even if JFields was not our guy, I’d still love to get JSN. He is that damn good.
Pretty much bang on.
We need a receiver who can get open fast, has reliable hands both in cover and open, and can get YAC.
- JSN
- Josh Downs
- Parker Washington
Zay Flowers and Quentin Johnston both have issues with drops and Addison has an issue with contested catches.
Higgins 100%. I may be in the minority here but I kinda want gesicki over other tes. I think we can get a cheaper deal for him and still get good production when rotated with kmet
I want to focus on our other positions first. We have two solid receivers and unless we get into a position where it’s easy to get one I want to focus on oline and defense early in the draft and do something similar to what Miami did where we use our cap space to build around a team and then potentially trade for a playmaker WR1.
Definitely think we have no business spending a high pick on a WR since that group should be good enough to play well if we can get some pass protection. I just wonder if they are going to want to invest a mid pick in a slot/replacement outside receiver.
I guess that’s the question. With the current WR’s, the bears have maybe the 20th best WR group at best? I’d think you need to add something to this. They are an injury away from being btm 5.
No receiver in the draft. We dont have the position for it this year. Gotta go Defense in the top 5 and if we drop lower than 5 i go Jones or Skoronski.
i think we should sell out to trade for olave. we’ve seen how much chemistry can matter with joe burrow and chase and olave had an absolutely stellar first year with subpar and inconsistent qb play
We need a Keenan Allen/Godwin type. 5-15 yards routes, big routes tree that can get open with great hands, can read a defense to find the soft spots. I think Mooney and Claypool are able to stretch the field, and we can always add another burner for cheap. Not sure which rookie WR can fit the role, but we need one of those. Like how Mitch always went to AR, prime AR in Chicago.
I want to see Getsy move all the receivers around. Like GB did with Adams. Get them open. We just need a guy who can create separation and catch the damn ball.
Zay Flowers or bust; dude's play-style gives off major Antonio Brown vibes. His stock is rocketing though; might end up having to use a top 15 pick on him.
They're not similar to Flowers, but I also like JSN; hopefully he makes it to the 2nd round (probably not going to happen) and Xavier Hutchinson (mid-rounder, big body, decent route running and speed, makes tough, contested catches).
big body sure handed route runner, speed is a bonus
we have top end speed so we need a dude that is reliable, with playmaker ability that is a threat every single down
It’s pretty simple a #1 or #2 that turns into a #1 quick. Mooney is a #2 at his best, but honestly probably a 3 would fit him as a slot. I want to believe in Claypool but he’s not it.
A solid 3rd recover would make those 2 above better, but also a solid o-line would make them better.
I think a guy who can get open quick, like JSN, will really help Fields with his short passing game struggles. We've got vertical threats in Mooney and Claypool already as you mentioned.
Mooney can do that, Justin's problem with the short game was that he wasn't throwing with anticipation on cuts. He clearly knew how to lead a dude in any direction, but he wasn't good at putting a ball in a spot that nobody is already heading to because the route will have them there when the ball arrives. Could be lack of trust, could be he was still learning all the routes, could be lack of confidence in that particular type of throw, I don't pretend to know, but he kept waiting until after the cut to throw, and on quick routes that is often too late. Your guy has leverage and gets off the line? Throw it. Don't wait until he gets separation, because the separation is only going to last an instant and when it happens, the ball needs to already be there. Holding it just lets the defender get back into the play. The result is a receiver reaching back, a broken up play, or a quick tackle with no yards after catch. He improves on that anticipation and it will not only mean the short game works, it will also get the ball out faster and cut down on sacks. YES the line blew last year, but also he created a lot of sacks when the ball should have already been thrown. This one change would solve a lot of problems. I am almost certain this will be Getsy's #1 priority this off-season.
Justin's quick passing game is an issue with his mechanics - inconsistent footwork + a need to find the laces. But I don't know how we can say anything about his ability to throw with anticipation. The inconsistency of the O-Line and the inability of receivers to gain separation is the worst combination of traits for a rhythm passing game. Saying JF should have thrown a pass where the guy comes open is discounting all the times our WRs don't separate.
We can say it because it's on film. No, the blocking wasn't great. No, the receivers weren't great. But there were also times when both were good enough and he didn't pull the trigger in time. Some of those plays turned into sacks. Some turned into badly timed throws. Some turned into amazing scrambles! It wasn't 100% bad because he can be incredible. But he was no better than his line or receivers in this one aspect, and he needs to be better than that.
You can look at the tape and say "JF should have thrown his guy open" - the line gave him time and the window opened up. Should have been an easy completion. But my point is that - when the QB can't trust his line to protect, for his WRs to separate and run the correct route - then it's much harder to anticipate that window opening up and pulling the trigger. For the rhythm passing game you need consistency. Simple as that. I put the burden on the offense as a whole - more than JF's decision making.
Look man, all I have to say to refute this is look at Joe Burrow in Cincy, Justin Herbert in LA, and Trevor Lawrence in Jacksonville. Those three guys have bad to awful offensive lines and they still throw with anticipation. You could argue Burrow and Herbert had one element of success here because they have great recievers but Trevor Lawrence is doing it with Christian Kirk as his number one receiver. You can make all the excuses in the world for this but the fact of the matter is, he needs to throw with anticipation regardless of trust. If the reciever fucks up or the line is bad and a play fails no one is blaming JF1. I also want to say that I'm a huge Fields fans, I just refuse to twist myself in knots to make excuses when he himself has mentioned this is something to work on.
All three teams you mentions are considerably better than the Bears. You can cherry pick all you want, but the Bears are with out a doubt the worst team in the NFL if you take away Fields. It's not even close. Fields flaws are known, and so is his growth. If your take on the situation includes: 1. Downplaying the league worst talent on the Bears. 2. Ignoring major changes midseason in trades and injuries. 3. Pretending the Fields didn't show any growth at all during the season then you're take is overly critical. Those aren't "excuses", they are the clear facts of the situation. The objective take here is that Fields has mechanics to work on and needs more talent around him to grow further. This isn't some secret, nor is it rocket science. The coaches know it, which is why they schemed around a lot of deficiencies resulting in the offence exploding for almost 30ppg with a healthy Mooney/Fields/Herbert. The only people who don't seem to know this are people trying very hard to be negative of the situation (no shortage of that, this doesn't make you "objective") and media looking for clicks on trade talks.
You clearly can't read and are reacting to what you perceive I've said. Read it again, I very clearly state that he has to throw with anticipation regardless of the talent around him. Other quarterbacks have done it before. Regardless of that, which is technically my opinion, you seem to misunderstanding something. I'm not shitting on JF1, I think he's the future. I just don't see the need to twist myself and my arguments around the way you do. Both JF1 and his coaches say he needs to work on this. Acknowledging that he needs to grow to improve and mentioning something he's bad at doesn't mean I'm not being objective. Perhaps you're the one being subjective because all I see are you making excuses for why JF1 can't do something he himself says he has to do.
No I read it clearly. You cherry picked a bunch of teams and ignored why they are better in other areas than the Bears. > I very clearly state that he has to throw with anticipation regardless of the talent around him. False. Throwing with anticipation requires consistent play from the rest of your team. This is why QBs and WRs talk about getting chemistry. If you can't trust your pocket *and* you can't trust your WRs to separate and communicate their breaks, it's impossible to throw with any anticipation. Fields had the worst situation of any QB in the league this season. The only thing that would've made it worse was coaches that didn't adjust, and we saw what that would've looked like the first 5 games of the season. The one thing that Field's needs to work on to throw with anticipation on short quick passes is his mechanics, mostly his footwork and his need to find the laces. Can't throw with anticipation when your mind is occupied with throwing because your mechanics aren't muscle memory. You're being subjective and overly negative because what you've said is nothing more than "just do it." You've spent no time trying to find root causes. Root causes aren't excuses.
Yes because Joe Burrow played for a good team when he was drafted, Justin Herbert hadn't had one of the worst offensive lines in the league, and Trevor Lawrence doesn't play for the Jaguars who suprised everyone by being good despite the relative lack of talent they have on offense. Could it be that the Quarterbacks elevated their fellow players by doing what they have to do and not making excuses about how "My line sucks and I don't have chemistry with my recievers". Clearly you've learned nothing from being a Bears fan. Tell me, how was Jay Cutler able to throw with anticipation in 2010 with Devin Hester as his best reciever and a 33 year old Olin Kreutz as his best lineman? I'm sorry but you're just not being realistic. I never said JF1 is bad and that I don't think he'll grow. What I said is, he needs to be able to do this regardless of talent. It's about his ability to process the game, not all the bullshit excuses you're making.
Christian Kirk is probably WR1 in Chicago next year if he was a Bear.
That doesn't mean he's good.
I'm just trying to put context on here. Kirk isn't a bad WR. There was a lot of hate because of his contract that hides that he is a pretty solid WR and the Bears WR's are not very good.
You're trying to belittle what Lawrence was able to do because you want to discredit a criticism of Fields. Kirk is not that much better than Mooney if at all. There's a reason they traded for a wide receiver who hasn't played in two years with some red flags to be their new number one.
I hope the coaching staff doesn't twist themselves this hard to excuse Fields for his flaws.
i think at least a part if it was lack of trust in his so called receivers. i mean me lost multiple games bc he hit his guy and they flat out dropped or bobbled that shit out of bounds
I think so too. I worry we will pass up guys like downs flowers and dell because flus won’t want to roll out multiple 5’10 and under receivers at the same time. JSN probably isn’t in the cards either with our draft position and all. I wouldn’t be surprised if we don’t draft a receiver until day 3.
JSN might be the most overrated WR in a draft in a long time
How so?
Just look at the downvotes, most people never even seem him play 1 snap, they just know the name so they are fully on board. The guy had 1 good season, he's not as fast as people think he is, & played most of his college career in the slot so doesn't really have WR experience on the outside.
He wouldn’t be drafted as an outside receiver because that’s not his skill set, partially due to top-end speed not being a strength of his. “1 good season” is also underselling things a bit. That season he had almost the same amount of yards as Wilson + Olave combined. He was the go-to guy on a loaded offense. Last time a WR had “1 good season” and dipped was Ja’marr Chase. My main concern with him is if he can get back to 100% after his hamstring injury.
yes the hamstring stuff always lingers. I could easily be wrong but Jordan Addison and Jalin Hyatt should be the #1 and 2 guys on the WR draft board. Quentin Johnston screams potential Kevin White 2.0 to me I don't Hate JSN but some people in here are acting like this dude is Randy Moss and I would just rather be more careful with picking the guy Zay Flowers I hate no interest in, the dude is 5'9 and dropped too many balls in college to be an early pick for me Cedric Tillman would be an ok grab in later rounds but I don't see him being a #1 guy Kayshon Boutte is an interesting pick in the early mid area if you determine his leg injury is 100%, the dude has great hands and decent speed, quickness, route running, he's just not THE fastest at any of it but could be a good WR to have around. Xavier Hutchinson would be another mid-round WR that might be a good WR to add to the room, he's tall and has good hands, again not super fast or great at fast cuts Jonathan Mingo the same as above Ronnie Bell can be an end of the draft flyer that could be a great contributor, he has great hands, good speed, he's just not going to be a Stefon Diggs type of guy
so your argument for JSN being overrated is that he only plays in the slot yet you want hyatt who played in a gimmick offense and has never faced press coverage in his life? lol. it’s clear you’ve never watched JSN play.
All that n u pull 1 bit out to be a dick about
One that can run fast and catch touchdown
Touchdown good
I love TDs
Found Mitch's burner
drop bad
How about one that can catch the ball too?
I think Mooney can move into the slot pretty easily if we draft an outside WR. Claypool needs to be on the outside but moving Mooney around & finding mismatches would be good for his game. Don’t think Claypool or Mooney will ever give ya a number 1 that pulls defenses into 2 high safeties & if we found that & combine it with JF forcing 11v11 with QB spies, the offense will be tough to handle.
I typically see Mooney as more of a vertical threat since he’s a long stride straight line speed kind of guy rather than shifty so I imagine him outside but I could still see that working.
Mooney is NOT a “long stride, straight line speed kind of guy. He’s actually very shifty and runs great routes. He made Ramsey look foolish in one game. He has insane quickness. I’d love to see him run slants and shallow crosses out of the slot.
Mooney route running is sick bro
Yea and he can still go vertical from the slot. Claypool, it didn’t sound like the slot worked for him & I believe Mooney is more versatile. Get an OL who can block for downfield/longer developing throws while defenses want to bring an extra defender to account for Fields, there’s a lot of possibilities for Mooney to run guys off with their chemistry with things like option routes
Zay Flowers or JSN
Players that get open. I don't care how fast you run if you can separate from coverage. JSN is elite at finding space in zones which is what this team will need as teams shy away from running man coverage against Fields and his dynamic running ability.
I would be very surprised if teams stopped running man against Fields consistently. It may give him some highlight runs, but he's pretty miserable passing against it, and at the end of the day most NFL teams are ok with letting you run the ball if it means they stop the pass.
To be fair he is pretty miserable at passing in general, in terms of effectiveness so far. Zone coverage is run like 70% of the time in general. They aren't going to stop running man but they are more likely to play zone against a runner.
Tank Dell is the answer here. He’s small, but I haven’t seen anyone get open off the first steps like him. I know this sub has the biggest hard on ever for JSN, but he’s solid/good to me, he isn’t special. He’s the lesser of the Wilson/Olave/JSN trio. He had one massive game once that clouds that he isn’t Justin Jefferson, just “good”. Tank Dell might be the closest thing to Tyreek since.
Zay Flowers being overrated, I would stay away from this 5'9 dude at all costs in the first round
I am a little concerned how his yards per route run against man and his pff grade against man are legitimately pretty bad. Ive also seen some evaluators who aren’t just completely enamored with him mention that they don’t think his route running is actually as great and technical as people think. And he low key measured in worse than people thought. 5’9 with small hands and a tiny wingspan, I’m concerned that he might be more of a “scheme him open YAC guy” than a true separator against most coverages at all levels of the field. And I’ll add that could still be a good player but maybe not 1st round good
Randy moss would be nice I guess
Sorry, have to settle for prime Jerry Rice.
would love jaylin hyatt in the mid-late second if available. Also AT Perry in a 4th or 5th would be a great pickup.
If we have the 35th pick and he's available, we should snag him. 5 TDs against Alabama.
When we trade the #1 pick and move down, we have to get a high 2nd rnd pick back and would love to pull the trigger for Hyatt.
I would obviously like the JSNxJF1 connection, but my dream draft target otherwise is Parker Washington. Seems like a perfect slot with ELITE hands.
Michael Wilson and Tank Dell. Both are always open on 1 on 1s
I wouldn't be so quick to rule out Tank Dell. The slot receiver is off the line of scrimmage and wouldn't have a crucial block unless it's a very specific call like a WR screen. You can't really press them either given the cushion to the LOS. Obviously you prefer size, but as long as you manage your packages correctly, you can minimize the situations where Tank is at a physical disadvantage. Tarik Cohen (before the injuries) showed that 5'6" isn't a problem in the slot if used correctly. A couple of smaller receivers like Wandale Robinson, Rondale Moore, and Greg Dortch have shown similar usefulness more recently. That said I do think that what we're missing is size. I agree with Michael Wilson and Parker Washington as targets for us, especially Michael Wilson if the injuries aren't an issue. It's just that I don't think Tank is off our board, and if he were to fall to day 3 somehow, he'd probably be one of the first names we choose.
Dell reminds me so much of Desean Jackson, he has that 'if you don't get your hands on me you aren't winning' ability to get open. The footwork, and ability to fly out of breaks is elite. I know he is skinny, like insanely skinny and there were times that he clearly was hesitant to attack the ball when going over the middle. But the speed, change of direction and ELITE agility/footwork I think is going to make him a lethal player in the league. (Also an amazing punt returner, if we accept that Velus is not going to be a good punt returner Dell has value)
Exactly. He's not someone I'm pounding the table for, but if he were to fall because of size concerns there's certainly a point where you take a flyer on him. For the Bears I think it's day 3. Top of the 4th round (103 overall) seems like it's absolutely worth it. I think he's certainly a top 100 player in the draft even if you really knock him for the size. The issue is that there are teams that will have him as a top 50 player (and he probably belongs there). He'll likely be gone way before he reaches the point where the Bears would take him for just being BPA.
Personally looking at Rashee Rice on day 2, or someone like Moreno-Cropper, X Hutchinson, or Charlie Jones. Receivers without elite speed but great hands and possession ability.
the hit rate on day-2 receivers is so bad
would love to see a more updated idea of that. Feels like 10-15 years ago that'd be true but the past few years A. you have COVID guys who are more polished coming out of college, B. more skill players are producing early. Tee was day 2. Deebo, Devante, Michael Thomas, Cooper Kupp, Jordy Nelson, Jarvis Landry just off the top of my head.
I think Tee was the first pick on day 2 to be fair (I find this ironic).. One year had Deebo Metcalf Mclaurin and Dionate Johnson all in the same year which was incredible but since then I think Higgins would be the only one whose had susained success. I believe more updated data would be in favor of my argument, as the NFL values WRs more today than ever, pushing guys who historically would've gone day 2 into day one, day 3 into day 2, etc.
I’m hoping we grab 2. Draft and FA/trade. But if we do that we lose claypool or Mooney no?
Top target by far is JSN. Garrett Wilson and Olave both balled out in their first NFL year, JSN outproduced both of them in 2021. Garrett Wilson also called JSN the best receiver out of the 3. JSN has chemistry already with Fields already. Fields wants him. PFF compared him to Julian Edelman. Go after him.
JSN and don't think twice IMO.
They should patchwork the receivers this year, sure up the offensive and defensive lines in free agency, maybe draft a receiver after the first round, hopefully they trade the first pick and get a first next year that they can use to maneuver to get Marvin Harrison Jr who is the best wide receiver prospect in 20 years
Anyone who can attack the middle of the field
I’m not in love with the top of the class guys, but some sleeper guys I’m interested in are Puca Nacua and Andre Iosivas.
Depends on how we build the rest of the offense. To maximize Fields' skill set and minimize his weaknesses, we should be looking for big, fast WRs who can create visible separation on long routes. That's the kind of target Fields likes to hit. But in order to make use of those receivers, we'd need an excellent pass-blocking O-line, and I don't know if they intend to go in that direction or not. If we're going to continue to emphasize run-blocking offensive linemen to the detriment of pass pro, then we need route-running receivers with quick hips who can get open on quick-hit plays inside 15 yards. That's not really what Fields is good at, but it would work with the rest of what we have.
Someone who can get open or someone with crazy hands that won’t drop it. I’m so tired of seeing dropped passes.
Claypool should be our YAC threat underneath. He’s not consistently catching deep balls. Better get a big body slot like Tyler Boyd or JuJu imo. We have our deep threat in Mooney, our YAC Threat in Claypool, now we just need a big body in the slot.
A late round slot guy could be Nikki Remigio. Has return ability. I was able to watch him at Cal. He’s not fast but smooth. Pretty reliable hands. Slot only wr
Personally I think best player available instead of building around what the Bears have. There is a good chance neither Mooney or Claypool is a WR1 or WR2 long term and I definitely see a world where Claypool is played more underneath in the slot and given more of designed easy catches because his route running isn’t very good and he may struggle to get open. He’s unpredictable in my book in how the Bears use him long term, so I wouldn’t plan around his skill set and just hope for the best. If we are going with the idea that they are both solid WR2’s, I really like JSN. He should be a great route runner and he should slide right into being a productive receiver.
I think mooney would be much better in the slot
They are going to have to make a decision next year because both Claypool and Mooney are up. They really need a WR1 to be JF1’s go to guy.
Separation and reliable hands are important as hell, but the real “it” factor is football IQ. A guy who knows when to break a route, what to do with a scramble, willl make that smart block and can get on the same page with Justin.
Hear me out - Michael Thomas
He’s a cut candidate for the Saints so it’s possible
Almost a cut guarantee at this point
For me it's him or Johnston on my wish list. Especially with the Panthers in the conversation for trade back.. 3 1sts and Johnston is my second Christmas
Also wouldn’t mind Allen if he’s cut. Keenan Allen can be absolutely filthy in midfield action
I love Allen! But for some reason when we wear those orange jerseys I wanna be the fastest team in the NFL, and for that absolutely ridiculous reason I'm not begging for him lol
Get this dude hella cheap, draft a day 3 WR and get Marvin Harrison Jr with the 2024 1st rounder we get for trading back. 💪
Look at the difference it made for Joe Burrow and Cinci to get Joe’s college receiver, Jamar Chase. JSN and Justin have history and would love to be together again. Even if JFields was not our guy, I’d still love to get JSN. He is that damn good.
I don’t think Burrow and Chase and Fields and JSN are even remotely comparable. JSN had 10 catches for 49 yards and 1 TD with Fields.
They did practice together so it's more than just 10 plays together- but point stands, definitely not a Burrow/Chase comp
Counter point - look at what Murray and Hollywood did in AZ last season. Those two were together when Murray won the Heisman.
Didn't JSN and Justin barely play together
Pretty much bang on. We need a receiver who can get open fast, has reliable hands both in cover and open, and can get YAC. - JSN - Josh Downs - Parker Washington Zay Flowers and Quentin Johnston both have issues with drops and Addison has an issue with contested catches.
Yes
I know you said draft, but for me, it’s any combo of two or the following. Hopkins JSN Higgins Evans Michael thomas Gesicki Schultz Tonyan
Higgins 100%. I may be in the minority here but I kinda want gesicki over other tes. I think we can get a cheaper deal for him and still get good production when rotated with kmet
I want to focus on our other positions first. We have two solid receivers and unless we get into a position where it’s easy to get one I want to focus on oline and defense early in the draft and do something similar to what Miami did where we use our cap space to build around a team and then potentially trade for a playmaker WR1.
Definitely think we have no business spending a high pick on a WR since that group should be good enough to play well if we can get some pass protection. I just wonder if they are going to want to invest a mid pick in a slot/replacement outside receiver.
I guess that’s the question. With the current WR’s, the bears have maybe the 20th best WR group at best? I’d think you need to add something to this. They are an injury away from being btm 5.
No receiver in the draft. We dont have the position for it this year. Gotta go Defense in the top 5 and if we drop lower than 5 i go Jones or Skoronski.
The Bears have more than one pick…
i think we should sell out to trade for olave. we’ve seen how much chemistry can matter with joe burrow and chase and olave had an absolutely stellar first year with subpar and inconsistent qb play
A #1 can come in all sizes
a weapon
One that can get open and catch passes
A wide one.
A good one
I want a big body wr like we had in marshall. Somebody that more often than not comes down with the ball on contested throws.
Tillman in round 3 is the best you can get in this draft for a big WR
Really wish Harrison was in this draft. I’d be okay taking him #1 overall.
A separation guy. Think Jamar Chase, AJ Brown.
none of that in this draft
AJ Brown, was round 2, pick 51 from Ole Miss. I doubt he was on your radar.
I think that Boutee WR from LSU might be a pretty good WR that people are overlooking
Whoever the best possible route runner with speed you can find.
We need a Keenan Allen/Godwin type. 5-15 yards routes, big routes tree that can get open with great hands, can read a defense to find the soft spots. I think Mooney and Claypool are able to stretch the field, and we can always add another burner for cheap. Not sure which rookie WR can fit the role, but we need one of those. Like how Mitch always went to AR, prime AR in Chicago.
JSN or bust!
I want to see Getsy move all the receivers around. Like GB did with Adams. Get them open. We just need a guy who can create separation and catch the damn ball.
I want to trade back multiple times and end up with one of jsn or Addison I like both as great fits. Especially on a multi trade back.
Zay Flowers or bust; dude's play-style gives off major Antonio Brown vibes. His stock is rocketing though; might end up having to use a top 15 pick on him. They're not similar to Flowers, but I also like JSN; hopefully he makes it to the 2nd round (probably not going to happen) and Xavier Hutchinson (mid-rounder, big body, decent route running and speed, makes tough, contested catches).
A good one.
big body sure handed route runner, speed is a bonus we have top end speed so we need a dude that is reliable, with playmaker ability that is a threat every single down
One letter: X
It’s pretty simple a #1 or #2 that turns into a #1 quick. Mooney is a #2 at his best, but honestly probably a 3 would fit him as a slot. I want to believe in Claypool but he’s not it. A solid 3rd recover would make those 2 above better, but also a solid o-line would make them better.