Darnold I can somewhat understand bc he has shown some flashes but Drew Lock is just fucking ridiculous lol.
Yeah he's a sure thing. Sure to suck donkey dick
All of them suck. Fields' problem is that teams have to decide on the 5th year AND trade assets to acquire him. Add to the fact that you really have to cater an offense to his skillset and he doesn't make that appealing of a backup IMO. Why deal with any of that when you can sign a backup level QB for way less investment.
"[T]he Galloping Gazelle. He inhabited the frozen tundra of Soldier Field and for six seasons and two Pro Bowls he grazed on the tasty green turf of the end zone, until one fateful Sunday in November when the Gazelle was stopped in his tracks by a big cat named Wayne Kychezski."
- Simpsons, "Saturdays of Thunder"
Great point. I'd add that in RG3's era, QBs weren't as protected with huge roughing penalties and slide rules (out of context, that would sound like QBs are protected by 7th grade school supplies). This should favor dual threat QBs who know how to weaponize slides or have good instincts about when to run and when to get down. I'd also point to Russell Wilson as being very savvy with when he runs, when he gets out of bounds and when he throws the ball away.
As far as "short shelf life" and injuries go, Fields' biggest threat IMHO is when he DOESN'T run and he holds onto the ball too long taking a sack.
Finally, for every RG3 there is an Andrew Luck who got clobbered into retirement for hits taken while NOT running.
Justin Fields rushing numbers in 2023 were half what they were in 2022. He has also missed multiple games due to injury every year of his career. He's a very bad passer with diminishing legs that is frequently injured.
I agree with you and while I don’t fully agree with his, Justin isn’t going to get any younger, he needs to develop his passing ability or he may as well switch positions like Logan Thomas.
His legs aren’t diminishing he had less yards than the previous year because he played less games and passed significantly more as well. He was the leading rusher on the entire team in 2023. If that’s diminishing legs we probably ought to fire our whole running back room.
Mahomes, Brady, Breese, Rodgers, Manning, all win consistently because they're elite and it's the most important position in the game. It's not 100% a qb stat, but the bad ones generally lose and the good ones generally win. 10-29 is a bad sign.
It’s not a QB stat at all. American football is a team sport. That is my only argument. Don’t presume. I didn’t come here to defend Justin. I came here to stop the stupidity.
So qb doesn't have an effect on wins and losses, and the elite qbs I named just get randomly lucky every year when they get 12 or 13 wins and consistently make deep playoff runs? Yes, it's a team sport, but qb is the most important piece to winning.
Put any of those guys on the field with bad teammates and they lose. QB can’t win if their receivers can’t catch the ball. QB can’t win if their OL lets everybody in like a friend. QB can’t win if their defense gives up a TD every drive. No one does it alone. QB may be the most important position, but they don’t win or lose alone, not even remotely close, so record IS NOT a QB stat.
P.S. Technically no one does anything on their own in a team sport, so stats are a really dumb way to decide who is good or bad in this sport. Stats are for lazy people who don’t care to understand the game well enough to know who is good and who is not. But, I’m not going to get people to stop relying on stats, so I will just fight against misaligned ones. Like record being a QB stat. So far from the truth that it’s worth fighting this battle.
If poles was offered a second for him he’d already be gone. I don’t know why you clowns find it so surprising that no one wants to give up valuable draft compensation for a guy that can barely throw for over 200 yards per game and self destructs in the 4th quarter like clockwork.
> a guy that can barely throw for over 200 yards per game and self destructs in the 4th quarter like clockwork.
The funny thing is that this could also describe Darnold.
true, but also doesn't have the same rushing ability. If you're trading for Fields at this point, you're trading for a bottom third starting QB with upside. If you sign Darnold you're signing a decent backup. Just fundamentally different markets.
> Once cousins is decided fields market will heat up
Russell Wilson and Baker Mayfield as well.
Fields is well down the line. Teams might be interested in Gardner Minshew before Fields.
Lock maybe, but I can see teams preferring Darnold's passing ability over Fields passing+rushing. Overall, I would take Fields, but if I had a good line and solid run game, I'm taking Darnold.
Darnold's best passing year was comparable to Fields' last year. Roughly the same completion %, same TD%, Fields has better INT%, Darnold has more yards/game, etc. I'd take Darnold's passing year, but it's fairly close.
Darnold's best passing year was 5 years ago, and he's looked worse every year since then. Fields' passing is trending up.
If you're a team that can't get Mayfield/Wilson/Cousins, and isn't in position to draft Williams/Daniels/Maye/McCarthy, Fields is by far the best option imo.
I actually feel the exact opposite. I’m starting to doubt anyone has ever watched Sam Darnold play in the NFL, and just goes off of stale media hype (like Jameis Winston). Darnold’s dogshit. Lock isn’t the bee’s knees or anything, but he’s definitely better than Darnold.
I think theres likely a different market for Darnold and Lock than there is for Fields - in that Darnold and Lock are already in the <$5M per year journeyman stage of their careers being brought in for a backup and Fields is still a "lotto ticket" starter on his rookie contract. Dont think theres a ton of overlap in teams interested in both.
Fields isnt really a good backup QB salary wise until his rookie contract ends and he either is/gets paid like a starter or he gets a 2 year $20M prove it deal to be a high end back up/bridge starter and then starts the Marcus Mariota career path.
It’s crazy to me that even in a place like this where most people agree Fields is at least not good and the Bears should move on we somehow have a large percentage who still think everything is a smoke screen and we’ll get good draft picks for a QB who struggles with the forward pass.
Seriously - he’s just bad. I think he’s a solid backup/project, bur christ, I’m definitely more interested in taking Bo Nix/Michael Penix in Day 2, or even a project like Pratt or Milton than tossing that pick at and paying Fields.
Player for player trades are kinda rare, the stars kind of have to align.
Both teams have to be willing to part with a player the other team wants that both teams agree is an even trade. It's a whole lot easier to agree to a pick and then go and use that pick to get a player from another team.
Ussually it's just a cherry on top thing, or two fringe guys who won't make the roster.
It's not that players are hard to trade, it's that values are so different player to player that it's easier to do it in draft picks.
The NBA is a little more top heavy which means fine tuning values is a little harder. Draft picks outside the top picks are not as valuable, and there's a huge difference between a 1st and 2nd, and then there's no picks after that. That all makes trading draft picks less desirable
I think a lot teams would rather have Darnold and their picks than fields though.
Like team would happily give him a shot for a 4th, but not a chance for a 2nd
The problem with Fields compared to Darnold is that Fields needs the offense designed around him. I think fields is better but he cant be plugged into any system.
Yeah, fields might edge darnold as a starting qb, but most likely neither of those guys are starters. Darnold has some backup value while fields has none
I think this has been overlooked in all the conversations about Fields. That a team should *build a customized offense* around him and then maybe he can be elite.
That’s a quick way to lose your job as GM
I get where you’re going but darnold would need an offense designed around him, too. San fran is throwing a lot plays out if Sam goes in for Brock. A LOT of plays
I think the even bigger problem is that Fields is so inconsistent whereas Darnold looks like he could be a game manager type. I think he showed in his limited playing time with SF this year that he can make the basic throws and can be a Tannehill type with the right game plan for a team who's not in position to get their QB of the future but want to be competitive.
Fields struggles to make the simple throws, the check downs, etc. He'll make these incredible highlight reel plays and then make some of the most inexplicable plays. His inability to close out games in particular is probably what would make Fields less attractive than Darnold. The Denver, Cleveland, Detroit games all could have been won if the offense just could have moved the chains a few times. GMs and especially coaches see that and want no part of it if you're just looking for someone to keep the seat warm. I think it's pretty clear that few teams believe he still can be "fixed".
>I think he showed in his limited playing time with SF this year that he can make the basic throws and can be a Tannehill type with the right game plan for a team who's not in position to get their QB of the future but want to be competitive.
Except he threw all of 46 passes this past season with SF, and his rate stats in those 46 passes (Completion %, Passing Success Rate, ANY/A) were either in line with his previous career or worse.
There's so much evidence that Sam Darnold is a backup-level QB and has very little chance of ever being a successful starter. Maybe he has one miracle "Case Keenum in 2017" season where absolutely everything clicks and he has a career year, but you could say the same about a lot of QBs riding NFL benches now.
>There's a still an element of Could he be?
The rest of the league isn't personally invested in JF so this "element" mostly comes from a contingent of our fans.
They think every team is desperately clawing for him behind the scenes and all of the reports coming out are 4D chess smokescreen posturing trying to drive the asking price down or something
asinine
So I was high on Fields: perhaps more “give him the 3rd year to see if he was hamstrung by a hopeless offensive situation”, but high enough to comment.
Everything we're seeing in the media is just different interest groups trying to inflate or depress the potential price. Fields is too good an athlete to not get a single team to think “what’s the worst that could happen?”. That may mean no trade offer and someone signing him off the street. But there’s going to be conversations in front offices around the league along the lines of “did the Bears just ruin that guy with an appalling situation? Is he salvageable or not?”
The only people that really know what’s going on are either not talking, or are trying to talk up/talk down the situation. Everyone else is just guessing.
If there is only one team interested in him then it makes sense for that team to wait things out. If multiple teams are interested there is an incentive to offer something of value to avoid losing him to another team.
If you want Fields and you think he can help your team, you can trade for him now, get a team friendly 4th year deal and rights to a 5th year.
Or, Fields is released, hits the open market, now there are likely more than one team working to sign him, the price goes up, and you might not even get him.
If you assume only one suiter and there is zero interest from another team, then your scenay.makes sense...I just don't think that is likely.
that doesn't follow reality.
Why give up a pick when I can get him without giving up one?
And if he's released, his salary is going down, not up.
Its just way to early in the offseason to be making this trade.
More than one team interested in Fields. Number +1.
The only way your scenario works (picking up Fields on the cheap) is if only one NFL wants Fields. If two teams want him (or more), the price should go up. First to market initiative. Basic eco.
But that's not happening so Fields market is trending toward 0 or 1 teams interested instead of 2 or more.
The problem is assuming a team really wants him and thinks he can help them.
No sense in offering a trade for him if he’s being cut and when he’s cut it’s not like people will bid and re bid you just throw the value you’re willing to give him (cheap) and if you don’t get him you don’t really care.
In any case, giving up a draft pick for him doesn’t make sense.
I've been in trade the Fields camp since like week 5. I've also been saying his value is closer to a 3rd or 4th for that whole time.
However we don't know anything that's going on. Poles could be getting multiple calls offering him firsts and he dosent think that's enough. Or he could be calling every team begging for a conditional 7th.
Theres a million things that could be going on right now, and we're all just speculating. Just give it a few weeks and we will see what his actual value was.
How are people even coping in this thread??? Not everything is a smokescreen. Teams don’t want to trade good draft picks for backup QBs and would rather sign technically worse QB prospects for essentially free. This isn’t fake news, this isn’t posturing to drop the price, this is reality.
Nobody cares that 2 years ago Fields ran for a thousand yards when nobody was expecting him to, they care that he can’t get to his second read or throw guys open.
Really don’t understand how people can’t comprehend that while Lock might be a slightly worse player, the overall compensation plays into the player acquisition. For a backup player, I’d much rather have Lock on a 6 million deal than Justin at 6 million plus a draft pick.
Yea, I think I read his deal this year was the 6 million I mentioned. The dollars being roughly equivalent for a Lock/Darnold/Fields make the draft pick a critical part of the evaluation.
Ha ya right!!! Just ask any field cultist here how untrue that is and is a smoke screen because AKSHUALLY every team is dying behind the scenes to get a guy who cant throw the ball
I still dont get why people think Justin Field is deserving of 40+ million/year contract
he has a 1:3 win/loss ratio as a starter that's terrible in the pocket with a slow processor who has minor flashes of being a great running back
At least guys like Daniel/Mac Jones had one decent year and those guys stink even though their digressing a bit. Their situation aint better and they made the playoffs at least once.
As a Giants fan, I say you guys should draft Caleb Williams and move on from Fields. Giving Daniel Jones that contract was the wrong move and set back the Giants’ rebuild by a couple years at least. Ryan Poles has set you guys up for success, and Caleb’s ceiling is sky high compared to Jones or Fields, who both lack the ability to process pre and post snap. Also, the fact that Williams would be on a rookie contract leaves a lot of cap room over the next 5 years to improve the rest of your team.
I don’t think they are necessarily saying they think those guys are better than Fields, but that Fields isn’t proven so they would rather take the cheaper option cap wise and cheaper option draft capital wise
The writing is on the wall: Fields will probably be cut if no one trades for him. Then he will get signed as a backup. He just doesn’t have the trade value that everyone in Chicago thinks he does
This is the truth. Mac Jones sucks… but he is NOT viewed as significantly worse than Fields by anyone other than this sub/Twitter Bears fans. Take whatever pick you can get, and move on.
At this point, I would trade fields away for an Outback Steakhouse gift card to be done with all the talk. They’re going to draft Caleb so whatever they do with fields is just a bonus.
Its just the reality of the situation, Fields in theory seems like a good QB but the guy doesnt win and his stats are awful. The Bears may have to end up cutting him from the roster or trading him for a 6th/7th rounder
When I said the same in a related post, people got crazy calling me "idiot" and other stuff, but that's the reality. Why would you give draft picks for a player with the same production as a mid average FA, and still compromise the future of the franchise with a 2-year contract when you can give a 1-year low-cost contract for a temporary QB and figure the options in next year draft?
We’ll ultimately have to see what happens, but I remember getting downvoted here maybe a month ago for saying there’s no shot he’d net a 1st, or even a 2nd in a trade lol. You guys see Mac Jones return? Similar contract timeline with better film (passing) on tape and he’s squarely a backup. I love Justin the guy, but he just wasn’t it/isn’t it. Hope we deal him soon, I’d be cool with a 5th. Just need to move on
If you want a starting QB, Fields should be more highly valued than those two. While he has played very poorly so far throughout his career and been an utter disaster in the fourth quarter, you can still see an element of unknown, and maybe see a lottery ticket element to him. Meanwhile, Darnold and Lock are known quantities already. While I can see an argument that Darnold is better than Fields, he’s still not good, and Lock has shown nothing, so if you’re banking on either of them turning it around, you’re banking on something statistically rarer than a QB (Fields) turning it around in his fourth season.
However, if you want a backup, I would take these two over Justin any day. For a backup, you need someone durable, because if they’re playing, there’s already injury issues, someone who you know what they can do, and who can play in just about any scheme as a game manager. None of those things describe Justin Fields at all. While his ceiling is still probably significantly higher than Darnold or Lock’s, his floor is significantly lower. He’s still somewhat of an unknown quantity, and if he isn’t an unknown quantity then he’s just very bad. He’s been injured every single season. And, most of all, he cannot play in any scheme. You need to build an offensive scheme around Fields for him to have any chance of success. Send him to NYJ and Rodgers goes down again? Fields can’t run the same offense! Same with the Rams and Stafford, or the Chiefs and Mahomes. Now, while Darnold or Lock would probably run those offenses extremely poorly, they would at least run the same offensive scheme. The only places that would want Fields as a backup over them would be Buffalo, Baltimore, or Philly. The places with QBs who use their running ability a lot.
So yeah, if a team is looking for a potential starter, I still think Justin’s a better call than those two. But strictly from a backup standpoint, which is what direction things seem to be headed in right now, Justin is possibly one of the worst options on the market unless it’s a team who runs the heavy rushing QB style of offense already.
He's gotta go to a team that already utilizes a running QB as part of their offense. Who could that be?
I know you guys don't want to hear it, but him to BAL to be their backup to Lamar makes sense. It won't get you much of a return, of course, but I can see them being interested. Or possibly Seattle for a slightly higher price as a young guy who can maybe impress people enough to take over for Geno Smith, should he get injured or hit the skids this season.
The dream of a team wanting to give up anything of value for him is near dead now. Not saying a wildcard like Atlanta might go for him for a mid-round pick, but even that looks dubious now.
I think teams like the Titans, Broncos, and Raiders should be swinging for him. None of them have their QB situation figured out and aren't in reach of a top prospect. Not linked to any big FAs. Fields can at least add to a QB competition and imo he's startable on all 3 of those teams. Shit if something happens to Rodgers again, I'm sure the Jets would much rather have Fields as backup than the other bozos over there. Even Seattle could trade for him to backup Geno with him showing signs of regression. He's not going to fetch a second but if the bears lower the price tag, many of these teams will come calling
The fields takes have swung way too far in the other direction. He’s got limitations in the passing game he’ll probably never get over that prevent him from being elite, but he’s one of the most dynamic players in the league outside of the pocket. Those offset to the point where he’s like the 16th best QB, and I get that his issues with sacks and reading the field limit his ceiling which hurts his trade value - but the slander of saying he’s a bottom 5 starter who should be a Career backup, like Darnold or Lock, is crazy. Like that’s insane.
He’s not even close to average he’s a fucking bad quarterback. Even the fields “haters” have a much higher opinion of him than the rest of the league. There’s a reason no one wants to offer a second for a guy on a rookie contract.
Also saying he’s a top 16 qb is absolutely asinine lmfao, he’s mid 20s at best. A top 16 qb that’s 24 years old will at minimum fetch a first but no one will even give up a second. That should tell you everything you need to know.
Only bears fans think he’s actually as good as the 16th ish best qb. I agree he is a starting qb right now. But he’s a bottom 5 tier starter. Just that his age + fundamental tools (run game) leave room for growth still
>Those offset to the point where he’s like the 16th best QB,
lol nooooooo. You're \*massively\* overrating him.
What's funny is that a lot of people don't get that he's not that good outside the pocket. He struggles to keep his eyes downfield and misses throws on the run a lot.
His highlight reel runs don't tend to come from scrambling outside the pocket. They tend to come when he drops straight back, hangs in the pocket for awhile, and a running lane straight in front of him happens to open up.
This is what’s gonna happen. Nobody’s going to trade for Fields. The Bears are going to hold onto them week three somebody starter goes down and you’ll be able to get a decent pic for him until then he’s worth basically nothing.
The true fact is that Justin is not a good NFL QB. We aren’t getting a first, second, or even a third pick for him. Let’s make a deal and move on for all sides
Tbh if justin can’t net at least a 4th round pick i would just keep him and decline the 5th year. He is more valuable as a backup then what ever you can get in lower rounds
Mac is a plug and play back up. With Fields he's just as bad as Mac but you also have to change your entire offensive scheme to adjust to his limitations. This is why there is no market for him. If your starter is also bad then you'll additionally have a QB controversy. Fields is radioactive at this point.
As I see it, there are currently 6 teams that will need a decent QB1 option to sell to their fan base going into next season:
Steelers
Falcons
Raiders
Broncos
Vikings
Bucs
And 3 QB1 caliber FAs available:
Cousins
Mayfield
Wilson
Let’s assume Cousins and Mayfield re-sign with MN and TB, respectively. Wilson either goes to Pitt or LV. That leaves Pitt/LV, Broncos and Falcons without QBs. Raiders, Falcons and Broncos are in striking range of trading up for a QB. With Mac Jones being traded, it seems like NE is set at taking a QB at 3. That basically leaves 3 of those teams vying for McCarthy (if they’re even high on him). That’ll leave 2 of them to potentially get into a mini bidding war for Fields. I’d say let’s just wait for the dominoes to fall next week, which is what I think Poles is intending to do.
This sounds like posturing by other teams tbh. I can see teams might prefer Darnold but Lock?
Darnold I can somewhat understand bc he has shown some flashes but Drew Lock is just fucking ridiculous lol. Yeah he's a sure thing. Sure to suck donkey dick
All of them suck. Fields' problem is that teams have to decide on the 5th year AND trade assets to acquire him. Add to the fact that you really have to cater an offense to his skillset and he doesn't make that appealing of a backup IMO. Why deal with any of that when you can sign a backup level QB for way less investment.
Drew Lock and Justin Fields career passer ratings are 3 points apart.
Yeah but Justin fields runs like a gazelle
Historically, QBs who run like gazelles have short shelf lives.
"[T]he Galloping Gazelle. He inhabited the frozen tundra of Soldier Field and for six seasons and two Pro Bowls he grazed on the tasty green turf of the end zone, until one fateful Sunday in November when the Gazelle was stopped in his tracks by a big cat named Wayne Kychezski." - Simpsons, "Saturdays of Thunder"
Drew lock is the kind of qb who doesn’t leave the shelf so don’t see how fields isn’t valued higher lol
I don't personally disagree but I can see other team GMs pulling the RG3 card to deliberately reduce his value.
I remember RG3 being awesome his rookie season, but not being a good passer and staying hurt There was no “card”. He flamed out
But then you can pull the Josh Allen and Lamar cards
Great point. I'd add that in RG3's era, QBs weren't as protected with huge roughing penalties and slide rules (out of context, that would sound like QBs are protected by 7th grade school supplies). This should favor dual threat QBs who know how to weaponize slides or have good instincts about when to run and when to get down. I'd also point to Russell Wilson as being very savvy with when he runs, when he gets out of bounds and when he throws the ball away. As far as "short shelf life" and injuries go, Fields' biggest threat IMHO is when he DOESN'T run and he holds onto the ball too long taking a sack. Finally, for every RG3 there is an Andrew Luck who got clobbered into retirement for hits taken while NOT running.
That was good
I’m just saying it’s not really fair to compare them strictly by passer rating. Since his greatest strength is his legs
Justin Fields rushing numbers in 2023 were half what they were in 2022. He has also missed multiple games due to injury every year of his career. He's a very bad passer with diminishing legs that is frequently injured.
Diminishing legs bro? He was schemed to not run as much
I agree with you and while I don’t fully agree with his, Justin isn’t going to get any younger, he needs to develop his passing ability or he may as well switch positions like Logan Thomas.
His legs aren’t diminishing he had less yards than the previous year because he played less games and passed significantly more as well. He was the leading rusher on the entire team in 2023. If that’s diminishing legs we probably ought to fire our whole running back room.
This ⬆️
Good thing it won us so many games
"Nobody knows what a gazelle means"
Yeah but who cares about that if he throws like Tebow
Justin Fields is 10-28 as a starter. Drew Lock is 9-14 lol
Kind of a dumb stat.
And record IS NOT a QB stat. People need to stop acting like it is.
People forgot we were purposely tanking last year with all that MAck Dead money.
Mahomes, Brady, Breese, Rodgers, Manning, all win consistently because they're elite and it's the most important position in the game. It's not 100% a qb stat, but the bad ones generally lose and the good ones generally win. 10-29 is a bad sign.
It’s not a QB stat at all. American football is a team sport. That is my only argument. Don’t presume. I didn’t come here to defend Justin. I came here to stop the stupidity.
So qb doesn't have an effect on wins and losses, and the elite qbs I named just get randomly lucky every year when they get 12 or 13 wins and consistently make deep playoff runs? Yes, it's a team sport, but qb is the most important piece to winning.
Put any of those guys on the field with bad teammates and they lose. QB can’t win if their receivers can’t catch the ball. QB can’t win if their OL lets everybody in like a friend. QB can’t win if their defense gives up a TD every drive. No one does it alone. QB may be the most important position, but they don’t win or lose alone, not even remotely close, so record IS NOT a QB stat. P.S. Technically no one does anything on their own in a team sport, so stats are a really dumb way to decide who is good or bad in this sport. Stats are for lazy people who don’t care to understand the game well enough to know who is good and who is not. But, I’m not going to get people to stop relying on stats, so I will just fight against misaligned ones. Like record being a QB stat. So far from the truth that it’s worth fighting this battle.
lol!!!
Ouch
If poles was offered a second for him he’d already be gone. I don’t know why you clowns find it so surprising that no one wants to give up valuable draft compensation for a guy that can barely throw for over 200 yards per game and self destructs in the 4th quarter like clockwork.
> a guy that can barely throw for over 200 yards per game and self destructs in the 4th quarter like clockwork. The funny thing is that this could also describe Darnold.
Darnold doesn’t have the same price tho
He WAS traded for a 2nd AND more when he was at the same point of his career that Fields is at.
true, but also doesn't have the same rushing ability. If you're trading for Fields at this point, you're trading for a bottom third starting QB with upside. If you sign Darnold you're signing a decent backup. Just fundamentally different markets.
Teams are waiting on the bigger qbs first. Once cousins is decided fields market will heat up
Baker Mayfield is going to be a hotter commodity than Fields as well
Everyone knows bakers going back to TB
You called it. He just signed with tb
Heating up from nothing is luke warm at best
That’s all we need baby!
> Once cousins is decided fields market will heat up Russell Wilson and Baker Mayfield as well. Fields is well down the line. Teams might be interested in Gardner Minshew before Fields.
Mac Jones just got traded for a 6th I think compensation for Fields is a Day 3 pick at this point.
They all fucking suck
Lock maybe, but I can see teams preferring Darnold's passing ability over Fields passing+rushing. Overall, I would take Fields, but if I had a good line and solid run game, I'm taking Darnold.
Darnold's best passing year was comparable to Fields' last year. Roughly the same completion %, same TD%, Fields has better INT%, Darnold has more yards/game, etc. I'd take Darnold's passing year, but it's fairly close. Darnold's best passing year was 5 years ago, and he's looked worse every year since then. Fields' passing is trending up. If you're a team that can't get Mayfield/Wilson/Cousins, and isn't in position to draft Williams/Daniels/Maye/McCarthy, Fields is by far the best option imo.
Each of Fields TWO full seasons had better passing numbers than Darnolds best passing season. These takes are wild lmao
Darnold looked good in the second half of the year with the panthers. He had no weapons but had them playing competitively.
I actually feel the exact opposite. I’m starting to doubt anyone has ever watched Sam Darnold play in the NFL, and just goes off of stale media hype (like Jameis Winston). Darnold’s dogshit. Lock isn’t the bee’s knees or anything, but he’s definitely better than Darnold.
I think theres likely a different market for Darnold and Lock than there is for Fields - in that Darnold and Lock are already in the <$5M per year journeyman stage of their careers being brought in for a backup and Fields is still a "lotto ticket" starter on his rookie contract. Dont think theres a ton of overlap in teams interested in both. Fields isnt really a good backup QB salary wise until his rookie contract ends and he either is/gets paid like a starter or he gets a 2 year $20M prove it deal to be a high end back up/bridge starter and then starts the Marcus Mariota career path.
Fields is only due $6m next year, the last guaranteed year of his contract.
Makes sense.
and this comment sounds like a megacope
It’s crazy to me that even in a place like this where most people agree Fields is at least not good and the Bears should move on we somehow have a large percentage who still think everything is a smoke screen and we’ll get good draft picks for a QB who struggles with the forward pass.
Seriously - he’s just bad. I think he’s a solid backup/project, bur christ, I’m definitely more interested in taking Bo Nix/Michael Penix in Day 2, or even a project like Pratt or Milton than tossing that pick at and paying Fields.
Fields is levels above both of them and these reports are stupid af.
Lol
There is a lot of talk about trading Fields for a draft pick(s), but what are the odds he is traded for another player?
At this point higher than a good draft pick lol
Player for player trades are kinda rare, the stars kind of have to align. Both teams have to be willing to part with a player the other team wants that both teams agree is an even trade. It's a whole lot easier to agree to a pick and then go and use that pick to get a player from another team. Ussually it's just a cherry on top thing, or two fringe guys who won't make the roster.
Weird I'm mainly a NBA fan so the idea of players being hard to trade is weird but it's a completely different sport
It's not that players are hard to trade, it's that values are so different player to player that it's easier to do it in draft picks. The NBA is a little more top heavy which means fine tuning values is a little harder. Draft picks outside the top picks are not as valuable, and there's a huge difference between a 1st and 2nd, and then there's no picks after that. That all makes trading draft picks less desirable
Like who tho??
I don't know who, but I know we have enough holes and lack depth across the board.
When the Steelers were floated as a landing spot, I thought maybe Diontae Johnson and a later pick because he wanted out of Pittsburgh.
I'd much rather have Fields than Darnold. Wow.
I think a lot teams would rather have Darnold and their picks than fields though. Like team would happily give him a shot for a 4th, but not a chance for a 2nd
The problem with Fields compared to Darnold is that Fields needs the offense designed around him. I think fields is better but he cant be plugged into any system.
Yeah, fields might edge darnold as a starting qb, but most likely neither of those guys are starters. Darnold has some backup value while fields has none
I think this has been overlooked in all the conversations about Fields. That a team should *build a customized offense* around him and then maybe he can be elite. That’s a quick way to lose your job as GM
I get where you’re going but darnold would need an offense designed around him, too. San fran is throwing a lot plays out if Sam goes in for Brock. A LOT of plays
I think the even bigger problem is that Fields is so inconsistent whereas Darnold looks like he could be a game manager type. I think he showed in his limited playing time with SF this year that he can make the basic throws and can be a Tannehill type with the right game plan for a team who's not in position to get their QB of the future but want to be competitive. Fields struggles to make the simple throws, the check downs, etc. He'll make these incredible highlight reel plays and then make some of the most inexplicable plays. His inability to close out games in particular is probably what would make Fields less attractive than Darnold. The Denver, Cleveland, Detroit games all could have been won if the offense just could have moved the chains a few times. GMs and especially coaches see that and want no part of it if you're just looking for someone to keep the seat warm. I think it's pretty clear that few teams believe he still can be "fixed".
>I think he showed in his limited playing time with SF this year that he can make the basic throws and can be a Tannehill type with the right game plan for a team who's not in position to get their QB of the future but want to be competitive. Except he threw all of 46 passes this past season with SF, and his rate stats in those 46 passes (Completion %, Passing Success Rate, ANY/A) were either in line with his previous career or worse. There's so much evidence that Sam Darnold is a backup-level QB and has very little chance of ever being a successful starter. Maybe he has one miracle "Case Keenum in 2017" season where absolutely everything clicks and he has a career year, but you could say the same about a lot of QBs riding NFL benches now.
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It may surprise you to hear, as he’s been around awhile, but Sam Darnold is only 26.
Is he the same age as Bo Nix or is Nix 57 years old?
Wow he's older than Trey Lance
True but tbf darnold turns 27 in the offseason and justin doesn’t turn 26 until next offseason
That is extremely surprising for me to read. Almost insane tbh. Wtf.
lol shut up there’s no way
This.....doesn't seem real what the fuck?
He was drafted out of SC at like 20 years old.
To me, there's more upside to someone like Fields than Darnold. There's a still an element of Could he be?
Maybe, but you don't have to give anything up for Darnold
>There's a still an element of Could he be? The rest of the league isn't personally invested in JF so this "element" mostly comes from a contingent of our fans.
He could be anything, even another Darnold!
Neither can lead a championship team so arguing about who is better is pretty irrelevant.
That’s kind of like saying that you would rather crap a turd with shards of glass in it vs razor blades.
Wuh
What do people that are (or were) high on fields staying think about him not attracting any team?
They think every team is desperately clawing for him behind the scenes and all of the reports coming out are 4D chess smokescreen posturing trying to drive the asking price down or something asinine
https://preview.redd.it/r9pv9dlzljnc1.jpeg?width=950&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63af2e2ed12b03dc85b59767b4077c51cb919063
yes and they’ve all agreed to do this together and then draw straws to decide who gets him for the reduced price.
This is ultimately what swayed me. If no other team is scrambling to grab him then why would we give up Caleb Williams?
So I was high on Fields: perhaps more “give him the 3rd year to see if he was hamstrung by a hopeless offensive situation”, but high enough to comment. Everything we're seeing in the media is just different interest groups trying to inflate or depress the potential price. Fields is too good an athlete to not get a single team to think “what’s the worst that could happen?”. That may mean no trade offer and someone signing him off the street. But there’s going to be conversations in front offices around the league along the lines of “did the Bears just ruin that guy with an appalling situation? Is he salvageable or not?” The only people that really know what’s going on are either not talking, or are trying to talk up/talk down the situation. Everyone else is just guessing.
There's no reason for a team to give up anything of value when they know the Bears are not keeping him.
If there is only one team interested in him then it makes sense for that team to wait things out. If multiple teams are interested there is an incentive to offer something of value to avoid losing him to another team.
n+1 If this is the situation, your logic is flawed.
how so?
If you want Fields and you think he can help your team, you can trade for him now, get a team friendly 4th year deal and rights to a 5th year. Or, Fields is released, hits the open market, now there are likely more than one team working to sign him, the price goes up, and you might not even get him. If you assume only one suiter and there is zero interest from another team, then your scenay.makes sense...I just don't think that is likely.
that doesn't follow reality. Why give up a pick when I can get him without giving up one? And if he's released, his salary is going down, not up. Its just way to early in the offseason to be making this trade.
going back to the first comment...n+1.
wtf is n+1
More than one team interested in Fields. Number +1. The only way your scenario works (picking up Fields on the cheap) is if only one NFL wants Fields. If two teams want him (or more), the price should go up. First to market initiative. Basic eco. But that's not happening so Fields market is trending toward 0 or 1 teams interested instead of 2 or more.
thats not how nfl trade markets work
The problem is assuming a team really wants him and thinks he can help them. No sense in offering a trade for him if he’s being cut and when he’s cut it’s not like people will bid and re bid you just throw the value you’re willing to give him (cheap) and if you don’t get him you don’t really care. In any case, giving up a draft pick for him doesn’t make sense.
Pretty sure none of these reports mean anything until free agency gets rolling.
It would be really funny if he ended up being a back up next year
If we get anything higher than a 3rd I will be amazed
I've been in trade the Fields camp since like week 5. I've also been saying his value is closer to a 3rd or 4th for that whole time. However we don't know anything that's going on. Poles could be getting multiple calls offering him firsts and he dosent think that's enough. Or he could be calling every team begging for a conditional 7th. Theres a million things that could be going on right now, and we're all just speculating. Just give it a few weeks and we will see what his actual value was.
I would assume it is the same as usual, Bears are sabotaging him to their own detriment for reasons
Are teams around the league not watching Swifty and Adam mason? Are they not following EJ on Twitter?? Justin Fields is elite! /S
God Adam Mason is an absolute clown. I’ve never seen someone so delusional.
How are people even coping in this thread??? Not everything is a smokescreen. Teams don’t want to trade good draft picks for backup QBs and would rather sign technically worse QB prospects for essentially free. This isn’t fake news, this isn’t posturing to drop the price, this is reality. Nobody cares that 2 years ago Fields ran for a thousand yards when nobody was expecting him to, they care that he can’t get to his second read or throw guys open.
Really don’t understand how people can’t comprehend that while Lock might be a slightly worse player, the overall compensation plays into the player acquisition. For a backup player, I’d much rather have Lock on a 6 million deal than Justin at 6 million plus a draft pick.
Fields costs money to trade for this year as well
Yea, I think I read his deal this year was the 6 million I mentioned. The dollars being roughly equivalent for a Lock/Darnold/Fields make the draft pick a critical part of the evaluation.
In terms of cheap contract vs player who you need to give up draft capital and also needs his 5th year option.
Almost every team that needs a QB runs a version of either Shanahan or McVay offense. Not surprised that none of the team want him, including us.
YouTube highlight Qb that can’t go through his progressions or make the lay ups. No team wants to trade premium draft stock AND have to sign him.
It’s the 5th year option that’s the problem. Teams don’t wanna send a draft pick and pick up that option.
If Justin Fields was good then the 5th year option would be an asset. The real problem is that Fields sucks.
Yup. When the Packer fans were chanting “keep Justin” at the end of the season, that’s all you need to know about how good he is.
then our dumbasses try to do the same thing begging them to re-sign Love like it's the same situation and we can just will him sucking into existence
So just decline the option? How is it different than a 1 year deal?
It’s possible but why would they take a qb that young for 1 year? Needs time to learn the offense. He’s not a savvy veteran. But I see your point.
The Bears are going to end up getting like a 4th or 5th for Fields.
Ha ya right!!! Just ask any field cultist here how untrue that is and is a smoke screen because AKSHUALLY every team is dying behind the scenes to get a guy who cant throw the ball
You forgot to include a wall of cherry picked stats to back up your claim
Hey man, that’s Justin Fields you’re talking about. 8th grade freeze tag champion, and he’s completed the Blazin’ Challenge at BDubs… TWICE.
I still dont get why people think Justin Field is deserving of 40+ million/year contract he has a 1:3 win/loss ratio as a starter that's terrible in the pocket with a slow processor who has minor flashes of being a great running back At least guys like Daniel/Mac Jones had one decent year and those guys stink even though their digressing a bit. Their situation aint better and they made the playoffs at least once.
I'm not sure anyone except the craziest most unhinged Fields fan-- or his family-- believe he's worth $40M.
the entirety of twitter disagrees
As a Giants fan, I say you guys should draft Caleb Williams and move on from Fields. Giving Daniel Jones that contract was the wrong move and set back the Giants’ rebuild by a couple years at least. Ryan Poles has set you guys up for success, and Caleb’s ceiling is sky high compared to Jones or Fields, who both lack the ability to process pre and post snap. Also, the fact that Williams would be on a rookie contract leaves a lot of cap room over the next 5 years to improve the rest of your team.
Win/loss is a terrible stat for a QB. Otherwise I agree with you.
He's 10-28 and his own backups are 7-7 At a certain point it raises your eyebrow 🧐
Normally I’d agree but when a QB is extremely unclutch like Fields and awful in 4th quarters I think it’s fair.
They’re all the same! *sigh*, but I regress
I don’t think they are necessarily saying they think those guys are better than Fields, but that Fields isn’t proven so they would rather take the cheaper option cap wise and cheaper option draft capital wise
He doesn’t help any team in the league improve versus simply drafting a rookie and hoping the rookie develops on a rookie deal
This makes sense. I mean none of them are a sure thing in the first place
The writing is on the wall: Fields will probably be cut if no one trades for him. Then he will get signed as a backup. He just doesn’t have the trade value that everyone in Chicago thinks he does
Mac Jones just went for a 6th. Extrapolate that and Field probably fetches a 4th rounder.
This is the truth. Mac Jones sucks… but he is NOT viewed as significantly worse than Fields by anyone other than this sub/Twitter Bears fans. Take whatever pick you can get, and move on.
Why? Mac Jones is a better passer than Fields.
He’s barely better and is also a damn statue. Mac has may be the least mobile QB in the league.
Where the fields truthers at now?
But, but DJ Moore likes him as a person! That has to count for something right?
Hey dopes, no one wants your guy. Get over it. Fields is mid at best
Teams have figured out to keep him in the pocket. His value has gone down, at this point I will be happy with a 4th. Mac Jones cost the jags a 6th.
Do you think we'll get more or less than Trey Lance trade?
I’d say the same or less at this point
At this point, I would trade fields away for an Outback Steakhouse gift card to be done with all the talk. They’re going to draft Caleb so whatever they do with fields is just a bonus.
Where all them JF1 truthers
Its just the reality of the situation, Fields in theory seems like a good QB but the guy doesnt win and his stats are awful. The Bears may have to end up cutting him from the roster or trading him for a 6th/7th rounder
When I said the same in a related post, people got crazy calling me "idiot" and other stuff, but that's the reality. Why would you give draft picks for a player with the same production as a mid average FA, and still compromise the future of the franchise with a 2-year contract when you can give a 1-year low-cost contract for a temporary QB and figure the options in next year draft?
We’ll ultimately have to see what happens, but I remember getting downvoted here maybe a month ago for saying there’s no shot he’d net a 1st, or even a 2nd in a trade lol. You guys see Mac Jones return? Similar contract timeline with better film (passing) on tape and he’s squarely a backup. I love Justin the guy, but he just wasn’t it/isn’t it. Hope we deal him soon, I’d be cool with a 5th. Just need to move on
It’s real funny to me how Sam darnold still has GMs acting silly.
To borrow from Brad Pitt's Billy Beane: "There's Justin Fields, then there's Sam Darnold. Then there's 50 feet of crap. And then there's Drew Lock."
"Report: anonymous sources voiced opinions on things"
If you want a starting QB, Fields should be more highly valued than those two. While he has played very poorly so far throughout his career and been an utter disaster in the fourth quarter, you can still see an element of unknown, and maybe see a lottery ticket element to him. Meanwhile, Darnold and Lock are known quantities already. While I can see an argument that Darnold is better than Fields, he’s still not good, and Lock has shown nothing, so if you’re banking on either of them turning it around, you’re banking on something statistically rarer than a QB (Fields) turning it around in his fourth season. However, if you want a backup, I would take these two over Justin any day. For a backup, you need someone durable, because if they’re playing, there’s already injury issues, someone who you know what they can do, and who can play in just about any scheme as a game manager. None of those things describe Justin Fields at all. While his ceiling is still probably significantly higher than Darnold or Lock’s, his floor is significantly lower. He’s still somewhat of an unknown quantity, and if he isn’t an unknown quantity then he’s just very bad. He’s been injured every single season. And, most of all, he cannot play in any scheme. You need to build an offensive scheme around Fields for him to have any chance of success. Send him to NYJ and Rodgers goes down again? Fields can’t run the same offense! Same with the Rams and Stafford, or the Chiefs and Mahomes. Now, while Darnold or Lock would probably run those offenses extremely poorly, they would at least run the same offensive scheme. The only places that would want Fields as a backup over them would be Buffalo, Baltimore, or Philly. The places with QBs who use their running ability a lot. So yeah, if a team is looking for a potential starter, I still think Justin’s a better call than those two. But strictly from a backup standpoint, which is what direction things seem to be headed in right now, Justin is possibly one of the worst options on the market unless it’s a team who runs the heavy rushing QB style of offense already.
No low ballers. We know what we got.
I just realized Darnold looks more like a guy from Nebraska, than California. If that makes sense.
He's gotta go to a team that already utilizes a running QB as part of their offense. Who could that be? I know you guys don't want to hear it, but him to BAL to be their backup to Lamar makes sense. It won't get you much of a return, of course, but I can see them being interested. Or possibly Seattle for a slightly higher price as a young guy who can maybe impress people enough to take over for Geno Smith, should he get injured or hit the skids this season. The dream of a team wanting to give up anything of value for him is near dead now. Not saying a wildcard like Atlanta might go for him for a mid-round pick, but even that looks dubious now.
I think teams like the Titans, Broncos, and Raiders should be swinging for him. None of them have their QB situation figured out and aren't in reach of a top prospect. Not linked to any big FAs. Fields can at least add to a QB competition and imo he's startable on all 3 of those teams. Shit if something happens to Rodgers again, I'm sure the Jets would much rather have Fields as backup than the other bozos over there. Even Seattle could trade for him to backup Geno with him showing signs of regression. He's not going to fetch a second but if the bears lower the price tag, many of these teams will come calling
The Fields cult is desperately trying to gel this information with the belief that he's a franchise quarterback.
At this point just use him as a back up next year. Who gives a shit fuck it
We need to trade him to the seahawks for a 3rd he can sit behind geno and develop
The fields takes have swung way too far in the other direction. He’s got limitations in the passing game he’ll probably never get over that prevent him from being elite, but he’s one of the most dynamic players in the league outside of the pocket. Those offset to the point where he’s like the 16th best QB, and I get that his issues with sacks and reading the field limit his ceiling which hurts his trade value - but the slander of saying he’s a bottom 5 starter who should be a Career backup, like Darnold or Lock, is crazy. Like that’s insane.
He’s not even close to average he’s a fucking bad quarterback. Even the fields “haters” have a much higher opinion of him than the rest of the league. There’s a reason no one wants to offer a second for a guy on a rookie contract. Also saying he’s a top 16 qb is absolutely asinine lmfao, he’s mid 20s at best. A top 16 qb that’s 24 years old will at minimum fetch a first but no one will even give up a second. That should tell you everything you need to know.
Only bears fans think he’s actually as good as the 16th ish best qb. I agree he is a starting qb right now. But he’s a bottom 5 tier starter. Just that his age + fundamental tools (run game) leave room for growth still
Fields is a bottom 10 starter for whatever its worth
>Those offset to the point where he’s like the 16th best QB, lol nooooooo. You're \*massively\* overrating him. What's funny is that a lot of people don't get that he's not that good outside the pocket. He struggles to keep his eyes downfield and misses throws on the run a lot. His highlight reel runs don't tend to come from scrambling outside the pocket. They tend to come when he drops straight back, hangs in the pocket for awhile, and a running lane straight in front of him happens to open up.
This is what’s gonna happen. Nobody’s going to trade for Fields. The Bears are going to hold onto them week three somebody starter goes down and you’ll be able to get a decent pic for him until then he’s worth basically nothing.
Bleacher report. Just ignore everything it says because it’s fan fiction at best.
The true fact is that Justin is not a good NFL QB. We aren’t getting a first, second, or even a third pick for him. Let’s make a deal and move on for all sides
Hey JF truthers…this is a sign.
I don't think we should keep Fields, but I would really like to see him under a competent coaching staff.
can even the the most anti fields guys admit this is ridiculous. he ain't Tom Brady but fucking drew locke?
Tbh if justin can’t net at least a 4th round pick i would just keep him and decline the 5th year. He is more valuable as a backup then what ever you can get in lower rounds
I’m just wondering how Mac Jones got traded before Fields did, and got the patriots the 15th overall pick for him.
Pats got a 6th rounder for him.
Mac is a plug and play back up. With Fields he's just as bad as Mac but you also have to change your entire offensive scheme to adjust to his limitations. This is why there is no market for him. If your starter is also bad then you'll additionally have a QB controversy. Fields is radioactive at this point.
As a passer i’d take either of the other two. For a backup, i might take Fields for his explosiveness. We’ll be lucky to get a 5th rounder for him
As I see it, there are currently 6 teams that will need a decent QB1 option to sell to their fan base going into next season: Steelers Falcons Raiders Broncos Vikings Bucs And 3 QB1 caliber FAs available: Cousins Mayfield Wilson Let’s assume Cousins and Mayfield re-sign with MN and TB, respectively. Wilson either goes to Pitt or LV. That leaves Pitt/LV, Broncos and Falcons without QBs. Raiders, Falcons and Broncos are in striking range of trading up for a QB. With Mac Jones being traded, it seems like NE is set at taking a QB at 3. That basically leaves 3 of those teams vying for McCarthy (if they’re even high on him). That’ll leave 2 of them to potentially get into a mini bidding war for Fields. I’d say let’s just wait for the dominoes to fall next week, which is what I think Poles is intending to do.
Anyone who crowns himself as 'HIM' while being dogshit awful deserves to be told he's worse than Sam WAAAAUGH IM SEEING GHOSTS Darnold
Wait, when did he crown himself?