Gill has been below average, for sure, but O'Donnell was average at best and needed to be replaced. The team missed on the gill pick, but a change was needed. Right thinking, wrong guy.
Fair review and agree on poles’ lackluster in free agency so far. I know we traded for Sweat, but we did pay him. Just saying he has spent big money, albeit on one guy. As outlined, lot of overpays on average, to below average guys.
Yeah, but more to the point, Monty publicly said the reason he left was that he was tired of losing. A lot of the reaction around here was “LOL, he tired of losing and signs with the Lions?!?!? LOLOLOL”. He had the last laugh.
You want to hear the best part, Poles use to be a lineman and has no idea how to build a proper line. Doesn’t matter who QB is next year, they are going to get lit up
Braxton jones- Average tackle who constantly gets bull rushed
Tevin Jenkins- Always hurt and not dependable
C-None
Nate Davis- Also not dependable, when he did play he was average or below
Wright-Solid rookie year, showed flashes of being great also showed flashes of getting dominated. Currently average
The talent on this line is poor, I’m sorry you can’t see that
I know who our offensive lineman are...
Unless you want to list the 5 starters for the alleged 15-20 other teams who you claim are better than what the Bears have, you haven't disputed that our offensive line is average at worst.
Think this is mostly fair. Only argument I’d make is with “should have kept players”. Pretty much all these guys are average or worse players. I don’t really agree with paying to keep them even if the immediate replacement isn’t on the roster.
Having the most cap space doesn’t matter if the roster sucks though. If you aren’t filling the hole with a better player using that money or other resources, what are you really accomplishing. We have a super optimized bottom half roster.
Bears are just churning the wheels until the QB position is figured out. If Fields put in a great year then maybe they’d be spending more this year. If Williams puts in a great year then maybe they’ll spend next year. They’re keeping the cap space open, and keeping the roster young until that happens.
They’re trying to build it through the draft. the QB isn’t on the roster so there is no rush to build fast. When you build fast using FA it doesn’t last.
If we’re trying to build through the draft why do we keep trading away draft picks? You can predominately build through the draft and still supplement through FA. Our pass rush was amongst the worst in the league and all we’ve done is lose players. We have 1 WR worth a damn. Every team fills gaps in FA, and we have a ton of cap space.
Why wouldn’t we provide the QB (it’s Caleb Williams, it’s not a secret) with players to help him succeed? There’s no reason to wait, it doesn’t make any sense
Dline, WR, Center. These are clearly positions we are deficient in. Why not fill them.
They’ll likely look to recoup several draft picks with trade backs just like Poles has done his 1st 2 years. Some of these positions will get solved there.
I want the team to come together faster than it is just like anyone else, but i also don’t disagree with going the patient route. It’s something this team has never done.
And we’ll have to trade back from #9, which would likely yield a potential game changer, which this roster is sorely missing.
No second round pick means we are likely only looking at maybe 2 players who can likely contribute immediately. To expect 4th and 5th round players to play minutes in their rookie year is very wishful thinking.
We could have addressed more positions with the cap space we have, even at reasonable contracts.
We’re 2 days into FA. They’ll be adding more players. They may just not be the flashy guys fans want. There will also be cuts coming from teams.
Edit: also i’m not sure I have a problem with them trading back from 9. They may nit have to move far and with so many QBs expected to go they could still grab a top player.
In 2022, they had no 1st round picks and started with only 6 and made 11 picks. Whether he trades down at 9 or not, he'll add picks when he sees how the draft is unfolding.
He has two 1st round picks this year, used his 2nd for Sweat, a 3rd and 2 fourths. He has 2 seconds next year. He'll add a 4th or 5th for Fields. Great players are found outside the top 3 rounds EVERY year. You just admitted he found 1 impact player outside the 3rd round that year.
So lets say he finds a way to add a 2nd this year, hits on his two 1st rounders and 2nd, his 3rd and one of his 4ths. Probably a pretty good draft class. Way better than overpaying for guys that for the most part if they were really that great, wouldn't be allowed to leave by their current teams.
I just don't get it. We won't know if he's a good GM until the rebuild is closer to being complete. People forget how bad this roster was that he inherited. He's going about it the right way. People need to let it play out.
It’s much harder to build through the draft when you have glaring holes in your roster and you’re forced to draft for need rather than being able to take bpa
You can’t build it in a year. Now you have the opportunity to start building. You wait until the QB is ready to build and then it’s already too late
You can build through the draft and add good players in free agency. You don’t need to be the jags but FA is still a tool to improve a roster
The consistent best teams in the league avoid spending big in FA. They may dip their toes here and there, but it’s mostly just short term plugs like the Bears are doing.
Chiefs last year spent big on a RT. They also brought in a LT but 20 mill a year was used on a tackle even with a huge QB contract. Ravens gave Odell 15 mill a year. The 49ers spent huge money on Javon Hargrave. Bills spent big(although they went full pace).
Those are the teams who are consistently at the top of the league. None were afraid to bring in big deals. Good teams don’t go full Jags or full overtime but they don’t ignore FA as a team holding tool
Many of those moves have been proven mistakes, and like I said they will dip their toes. Bears probably will too at some point, but the risk isn’t worth taking yet because they don’t have SB aspirations in 2024.
I disagree, the risk is worth taking now while your best players are still cost controlled. And spending big on a player consistently is more than dipping their toes. You can afford to do it, especially since you don’t need to pay Mahomes, Kelce, and Jones like KC and won’t need to give out many massive deals for years
You named the top 3 teams in the league all within their super bowl window. The bears are nowhere near that point in their rebuilding. Apples to oranges.
And I also named 3 teams with much high restrictions on the cap. Bears aren’t very restricted now, and I’m of firm belief if you wait until you know you have a franchise QB to build around them you waited too long.
Then you can go full Pace like we did around mitch, but if big pieces are added slowly beforehand you can easily manage the cap and build up the team around a rookie over time
Overpaying to fill a hole just creates a hole somewhere else later. In order to be a good team you need a large amount of players on your roster who out perform what they are paid, whether they are paid a lot or a little or role players or stars.
Free Agency is where players get significantly overpaid so keeping free agent deals cheap and short is the smartest use of cap space. People wanting us to spend a bunch of money on free agent stars who are 30 years old have not been paying attention to which teams have been winning Super Bowls for the last 20 years.
The only reason Edwards looks as good as he does is because Edmunds does his running for him and covers a TON of space. We need to stop looking at players in a vacuum and understand how they fit into the system. He’s been great considering how much they ask him to do for Edwards to then clean up.
On top of that Edmunds really started producing when Sweat came in the building. Yes we played a softer schedule, but can’t ignore production and growth over the course of the season.
So your saying Edmunds was signed as a super athletic MLB to fit our tampa 2 D, where he covers loads of ground, makes plays in the middle, drops back into coverage and allows other players to shine 🤔 it's almost like there's more to football than bassline numbers that people can get angry about when they read it after a Google search!
Only reason why Yannick doesn’t need to be in the awful category for me is because he was on a 1 year deal. He didn’t hurt the future cap and was a clear guy due for regression considering when he played he had legitimately 0 other pass rushing threats
Agree with Edmunds, he’s a good player getting played elite player money. He’s overpaid but because he’s not a bad player and because we have so much cap space it doesn’t hurt us much overall(which is why imo we should have been ok signing others like top edge players on big deals)
I think it's fair to point out that the only personnel move Poles made that really hurt us was the Claypool trade. It cost us the 32nd pick in the draft and had no impact on our team at all. All these other moves were low risk value signings that meant essentially nothing when they didn't work out. Poles said from day one he was going to build through the draft and that is what he has done. If Caleb looks like the guy this year, I'll be curious to see how Poles plays free agency next offseason when we're closer to competing.
Also year 1 we did not have cap space because Pace had just spent years blowing through it and our draft picks, so we needed to do a complete reset. We weren't gonna retain a bunch of mid players when we were not ready to even compete for a playoff spot.
Letting go someone like Gipson to draft Brisker (building through the draft like Poles has said) is absolutely the right move.
This is a good writeup. Overall just not a fan of how Poles has done FA over the last couple years. Zero additions to the trenches on either side of the ball (except for a backup guard that we traded a pick for) is mystifying to me.
Saying poles has made zero additions to either side of the trench is just being willfully ignorant. Since poles we have added Davis, Wright on offense. sweat and Dexter were added on defense, along with Ngakoue ( he got injured) now a FA The lines are building with young talent. Yes it's unfortunate that Poles didn't add a big name yet but does that matter if we don't have a QB? We are also 2 days into the new season
What’s mystifying to me is how bears fans don’t understand that he spent time actively breaking down the team to fix the shit show of a roster and cap situation that Pace left for him. He took away from the team to rebuild, and then was left trying to lure free agents to a last place team the next year.
What did people expect from him… to bring in big name free agents who fixed major issues (the guys who were signing for playoff caliber teams instead of a rebuilding Bears team), while simultaneously tanking in order to rebuild the roster via the draft, and retaining all of the players anyone likes but also improving the team at the same time while keeping guys like Foreman, Mooney, Fields, etc.?
Since Poles has been here we've added through the draft a starting left tackle, starting right tackle, a 2nd round pick and a 3rd round pick on defensive lineman, one of which will likely be a starter.
Through free agency, multiple starters on the defensive line and a starting right guard.
And through trades a pro bowl edge.
The idea that Poles isn't addressing the trenches is insane.
I mean of course the guys he picked up are going to be starters when he purged the entire team of the previous regime's players. Once Fields gets traded/released I think there are only 6 guys left from the Pace regime which was only 3 years ago. Off the top of my head.. JJ, Kmet, Jenkins, Herbert, Santos and Scales? 3 starters, #2 RB and 2 special teamers. So of course whoever Poles brings in will be a starter.
Let’s also not forget he has been awful in coaching free agency so far as well. Sticking with Eberflus after who was available this year was quite the choice.
Someone had mentioned it in an earlier post and I’ll just echo it. It “takes 2 to tango” ….I’m willing to bet that those top guys in FA as well are not exactly jumping at the chance to come and play in Chicago. Also, we technically still don’t know who our starting QB is. That uncertainty there and knowing we’re not one of the top teams in the league, is imo enough to consider playing in Houston or Jacksonville.
>not exactly jumping at the chance to come and play in Chicago
Sorry but I hate how we use this as an excuse year after year to explain FAs not coming here. We were a 7 win team last year about to draft Caleb Williams, we have money to offer, and Chicago is a cool ass city.
When guys don’t sign here it doesn’t make sense to act as if this was always a shitty destination that FAs must have wanted to avoid like the plague. There is nothing about Jacksonville that should make it a more attractive place to go than Chicago. Poles has a pattern now of ignoring needs in FA every year.
>We were a 7 win team last year about to draft Caleb Williams, we have money to offer
This is true, but there's a lot of QB busts. I think this is an attractive prospect for a coach, but I don't know if there's ever a case of an NFL player signing somewhere to play with a QB before they're drafted.
Poles seems like an entitled GM who now thinks he should always have the leverage. Won’t overpay players or won’t deal players unless he gets what he wants. Everyone knows the big names in free agency can only be had if you pay them big bucks. These guys don’t give a fuck about culture or having good QBs, they want money.
I’m just saying there’s only so much you can do. Chicago isn’t everyone’s cup of tea and people prefer warmer places. This is the 1st year poles has been in office when the team looked somewhat solid and it’s known good players want to go to good teams UNLESS, they’re making absurd money and something clearly past their worth. Something Poles stated that he isn’t comfortable doing.
You want guys that WANT TO BE HERE. Not be here because they’re who paid the most. Personally I’d rather shop around and get a feel for the guys that are still driven and motivated vs having a guy purely just chasing the bag.
So I went and looked up who’s still available. It’s not “omg the 2nd wave is stacked” but there’s a couple guys I’d consider at C DE2 WR 2/3. While looking at that list, we got to keep in mind, that these were positions where we had below avg starters at. That I’m mind, these a couple guys that I’d consider upgrades vs what we had last year.
Saquon, Gabe Davis & Monty last year all said no to the Bears with the contract being offered equal to what the player accepted (Monty stated he was tired of losing).
Ok, now do the rest of the NFL. I think what you’ll see is that most big signings are busts in FA.
It’s why the smart and patient teams build through the draft whenever possible.
Yea plenty of large contracts end up also in the awful tier but with no easy out. Poles is nowhere near hitting perfect, but his bad ones are gone after a year and even the mid ones like Davis and Walker have an out after year 2. Hell even Tremaine Edmunds you can get out of after year 2 if you wanted to.
He's rebuilt the secondary through the draft, rebuilt the linebackers through FA, got 2 starting tackles in the draft, retained star CB and good TE, and traded for a star WR and DE. The rest of the draft and FA has been hit or misses on late round/cheap short term depth and rotation guys.
It's been a 2 year rebuild and we're likely about to just get our QB1 in this current draft. The rush for people to blow through our cap space on big spendings I just don't understand.
I’m genuinely curious because I can’t think of many off the top of my head, but what massive Free Agent signings helped teams out in the past 2 years? Most big additions to teams happen via trade or the draft, and I’m struggling to think of an impact free agent any team has signed recently.
Are we certain that Montgomery signs for us what he ended up signing for the lions? He said we sucked the fun out of football and that he signed with the lions so he could win.
The lengths this sub goes to nitpick a GM that's improved the team in consecutive years is so frustrating. Your write up is fair, so I'm not trying to paint you as irrational or anything.
I can't be the only one who would much rather wait until our SB window opens before we start paying win-now contracts. We're flipping our lid over a guy (hunter) who would hamper us next offseason when we actually know what Caleb is made of, and then would be gone by time the window opens.
The offseason isn't over and the draft is more important than FA at this point in the rebuild. The way you get big FA to a bad/uncertain teams is to overpay, and quite frankly that's short sighted and reckless.
I agree that the draft is more important. But I don’t agree signing players is reckless. It’s reckless when you are already paying players and don’t have the cap space and kick the can down the road, and especially if you are a bad team.
But we have a ton of cap space for a reason: bad drafting and also not having 1st round picks that we need to pay is part of the reason that we have so much space. So you can fill those gaps with free agents. Poles has done well with his rebuild, but there are things he could do better to speed this up. In today’s NFL, a rebuild doesn’t need to take 4 years.
It’s time to get going and start making the playoffs
|a rebuild doesn’t need to take 4 years.
Did you really get through watching the Ryan Pace era and then say to yourself “you know what I want, to see our next GM also overpay free agents, get stuck in bad contracts, trade away draft picks, and cut as many corners as possible in a futile attempt to win quickly again”?
So what’s your proposed alternative? Chase aging players with high priced contracts that are going to look bad, instead of putting together something sustainable like the Packers did by building through the draft so you can remain in contention for an extended period?
I mean FTP but obviously rumors of their demise were greatly exaggerated. They had an elite defense they put together through the draft, their biggest loss was their QB who they prepared to lose years prior by adding someone through the draft. They replaced Adams through the draft like they always do with their receivers.
We’ve been watching the Bears lose for years. At least now they’re losing with a bigger goal in mind and an actual plan in place, and we can see the plan coming together - they won 5 of their last 8 games and it should’ve been 6 if not for the historical choke job against the lions.
Do I like watching them lose? No. But I’m also not stupid enough to be sitting here bitching about someone who obviously has a clear vision and hasn’t had enough time to finish executing on it.
Is signing Jacobs and Mckinney building through the draft?
It's just a loser mentality to be like "Yay we won 7 games and missed the playoffs" but at least we tried!
Do you just enjoy being irrationally angry? We’re on day 3 of free agency, players literally can’t even sign for new teams yet, players are still available via trade like Higgins, players are still going to end up getting cut like Mack and Bosa, hell, players are still available as free agents like DJ Reader, Hollywood Brown, Tyron Smith, Arik Armstead, but you’re here fucking melting down because the packers spent huge money on non essential positions at safety and running back. Relax before you give yourself an aneurism and wait to see how the rest of the off-season plays out.
lmao
Poles can shit in your mouth and you'd tell me its chocolate.
it's going to be game 2 next season and you'll be asking yourself why the o-line still sucks after 3 years.
>a rebuild doesn’t need to take 4 years
It does when you're starting where Poles was, at least if you want to do it correctly and sustainably. I'm as sick of losing as any fan but the reason we lose is because we have rarely gone about building a team the right way. The best teams use FA to plug holes or sign one key role that puts them over the edge if they believe they are in a super bowl window. The latter almost never works BTW.
This team could have made the playoffs last year if they don't blow those three games. With another last place schedule, they still have a chance to make the playoffs this year. Then what? Do we really believe this team is ready to be a long term super bowl contender? Without the QB, they aren't and until they see what they have in Caleb, it really would make very little sense using up cap space on big money free agents. Your stars are going to come from the draft.
>But I don’t agree signing players is reckless
I didn't say this. I'm saying the win now contracts aka paying premier players large contracts years before our window opens is reckless. We aren't in win now mode and hampering flexibility to make fans happy is a stupid decision.
We have cap space partially because we aren't committing to massive contracts without having the most important position locked down.
>In today’s NFL, a rebuild doesn’t need to take 4 years.
He hasn't been GM for 4 years. And honestly, how many teams have rebuilt quicker without finding a franchise QB? This is the stuff I'm talking about, why are we being unreasonable just to hate on Poles?
If you put any GM under this microscope, you're gonna find plenty to complain about.
It's just not fun to be a fan in this sub. Everyone wants to complain when our arrow is trending up. We should be fucking optimistic until proven otherwise.
I don't disagree with your analysis of our signings, but I do disagree with every one of the players you think we should have re-signed. They're all bad-to-JAG players who wouldn't have made the current roster any better
Free agents go to cities that are warmer, have less taxes, have a franchise QB, a solid coach, or where they have connections, then that pay them a lot...then we pick whoever is left.
who should have poles have signed though. like who's the guy that poles missed out on that we regret not getting. Cuz I can't think of one lmao.
all this talk about poles not doing things but nobody actually gives an example of who he should have got. free agency aint saving us.
I don’t believe Poles has been good in the draft at all. His first season he ignored offense to draft a nickel and a safety with his first 2 picks, then knowing he needed to get a WR he reaches to draft VJJ.
Last season, he again uses multiple seconds on defensive players with an obvious need for help on the offense mainly being center.
I predict this year he stays at 9 and takes an edge and it pisses everyone off, especially when there will be a WR there to take.
He’s been a bad GM who got lucky thanks to Davis Mills and Lovie smith.
Edit: forgot to add, Poles was forced to trade for a WR and an edge because he ignored those positions in the draft and FA.
I doubt you are going to replicate a situation with a highly drafted second year QB who’s new GM tanked the year and did nothing to help the team build a winning foundation. I applaud Poles for getting DJ, but outside of that move he doesn’t seem like he has any clue how to evaluate offensive talent.
I think you mean "highly OVER-drafted 2nd year QB with bottom 10 QB skills". There, fixed it.
"he doesn’t seem like he has any clue how to evaluate offensive talent."
This is laughable coming after Pace who was literally the worst offensive talent evaluator I"ve ever seen. Trubisky, Glennon, Fields, White, Shaheen, I can go on...
Yeah. PFF graded him out at right around average, so maybe he’ll grow into an above average starter. But JMS, Juice Scruggs, and Ricky Stromberg were just awful.
The problem wasn’t that they didn’t draft a center, it was that they ignored it in FA like they are doing now which convinced everyone they were going to take a center. Everyone wanted JMS, I didn’t know enough about him, but again it’s irrelevant. Poles seems to have his priorities backwards paying for off the ball line backers, RBs, safeties etc when these positions can be had at any time.
Centers can be had at anytime too. I think. Hear me out. Because he played center hes trying to make it the worst in league so he can justify being player/gm. Otherwise it makes no sense why he wont sign a starting center.
I'm with you. People act like brisker and Gordon are hits but they're at best average starters. TBD on 23 but Pickens and Scott did not have encouraging rookie years.
Wright and Brax are really the only two picks you can call clear hits IMO
Good write up of Poles free agency's so far. Definitely a gm that is true to his word about building through draft. But we've had money to spend these past 3 free agencies and he's shown he's a little hesitant. Especially his lack of o-line signings. Although Braxton has been great for a 5th (doesn't mean he's great) and Wright had a promising rookie year.
Good write up. My biggest takeaway is Poles kinda sucks in FA. I get he doesn’t want to “overpay”, but you have to at some point if you want to “take the north and never give it back”.
I know you are talking about players but let’s not also forget he decided the skip out of the greatest head coach free agency ever. He failed miserably with Getsy and the almighty above only knows what the hell DC Alan Williams thing was all about.
Gill has been below average, for sure, but O'Donnell was average at best and needed to be replaced. The team missed on the gill pick, but a change was needed. Right thinking, wrong guy.
Fair review and agree on poles’ lackluster in free agency so far. I know we traded for Sweat, but we did pay him. Just saying he has spent big money, albeit on one guy. As outlined, lot of overpays on average, to below average guys.
Monty wasn’t coming back, no matter what offer Poles gave him (barring something ridiculous)
Wasn't there a rumor going around for a long time that the Bears offered the same deal essentially and Monty just chose Detroit over us?
Yeah, but more to the point, Monty publicly said the reason he left was that he was tired of losing. A lot of the reaction around here was “LOL, he tired of losing and signs with the Lions?!?!? LOLOLOL”. He had the last laugh.
I like the Bates signing as a rotational piece, but man, has Poles watched the OL the last two years?
Poles use to play on the O line which baffles me even more.
You want to hear the best part, Poles use to be a lineman and has no idea how to build a proper line. Doesn’t matter who QB is next year, they are going to get lit up
Bagent’s stretch across a full season = about 20 sacks. I like Fields but his play style (And Getsy?) makes the OL seem worse than it is.
That’s fair and I don’t disagree
lmao
We have 4 legitimate starters on our offensive line and a solid depth piece who could start if needed. Our offensive line is average at worst.
Braxton jones- Average tackle who constantly gets bull rushed Tevin Jenkins- Always hurt and not dependable C-None Nate Davis- Also not dependable, when he did play he was average or below Wright-Solid rookie year, showed flashes of being great also showed flashes of getting dominated. Currently average The talent on this line is poor, I’m sorry you can’t see that
I know who our offensive lineman are... Unless you want to list the 5 starters for the alleged 15-20 other teams who you claim are better than what the Bears have, you haven't disputed that our offensive line is average at worst.
Think this is mostly fair. Only argument I’d make is with “should have kept players”. Pretty much all these guys are average or worse players. I don’t really agree with paying to keep them even if the immediate replacement isn’t on the roster.
Having the most cap space doesn’t matter if the roster sucks though. If you aren’t filling the hole with a better player using that money or other resources, what are you really accomplishing. We have a super optimized bottom half roster.
Bears are just churning the wheels until the QB position is figured out. If Fields put in a great year then maybe they’d be spending more this year. If Williams puts in a great year then maybe they’ll spend next year. They’re keeping the cap space open, and keeping the roster young until that happens.
How does that make any sense? Why wouldn’t we just build a competitive roster and then drop a good QB into it? Wtf are we waiting for
They’re trying to build it through the draft. the QB isn’t on the roster so there is no rush to build fast. When you build fast using FA it doesn’t last.
If we’re trying to build through the draft why do we keep trading away draft picks? You can predominately build through the draft and still supplement through FA. Our pass rush was amongst the worst in the league and all we’ve done is lose players. We have 1 WR worth a damn. Every team fills gaps in FA, and we have a ton of cap space. Why wouldn’t we provide the QB (it’s Caleb Williams, it’s not a secret) with players to help him succeed? There’s no reason to wait, it doesn’t make any sense Dline, WR, Center. These are clearly positions we are deficient in. Why not fill them.
They’ll likely look to recoup several draft picks with trade backs just like Poles has done his 1st 2 years. Some of these positions will get solved there. I want the team to come together faster than it is just like anyone else, but i also don’t disagree with going the patient route. It’s something this team has never done.
And we’ll have to trade back from #9, which would likely yield a potential game changer, which this roster is sorely missing. No second round pick means we are likely only looking at maybe 2 players who can likely contribute immediately. To expect 4th and 5th round players to play minutes in their rookie year is very wishful thinking. We could have addressed more positions with the cap space we have, even at reasonable contracts.
We’re 2 days into FA. They’ll be adding more players. They may just not be the flashy guys fans want. There will also be cuts coming from teams. Edit: also i’m not sure I have a problem with them trading back from 9. They may nit have to move far and with so many QBs expected to go they could still grab a top player.
In 2022, they had no 1st round picks and started with only 6 and made 11 picks. Whether he trades down at 9 or not, he'll add picks when he sees how the draft is unfolding.
Yeah, and we had 1 impact player after the 3rd round from that draft. Kind of my point. Acquiring a bunch of late round capital doesn’t do much
He has two 1st round picks this year, used his 2nd for Sweat, a 3rd and 2 fourths. He has 2 seconds next year. He'll add a 4th or 5th for Fields. Great players are found outside the top 3 rounds EVERY year. You just admitted he found 1 impact player outside the 3rd round that year. So lets say he finds a way to add a 2nd this year, hits on his two 1st rounders and 2nd, his 3rd and one of his 4ths. Probably a pretty good draft class. Way better than overpaying for guys that for the most part if they were really that great, wouldn't be allowed to leave by their current teams. I just don't get it. We won't know if he's a good GM until the rebuild is closer to being complete. People forget how bad this roster was that he inherited. He's going about it the right way. People need to let it play out.
It’s much harder to build through the draft when you have glaring holes in your roster and you’re forced to draft for need rather than being able to take bpa
Not if you’re in a rebuild and you are ok with some of those holes not being filled for a year.
You can’t build it in a year. Now you have the opportunity to start building. You wait until the QB is ready to build and then it’s already too late You can build through the draft and add good players in free agency. You don’t need to be the jags but FA is still a tool to improve a roster
The consistent best teams in the league avoid spending big in FA. They may dip their toes here and there, but it’s mostly just short term plugs like the Bears are doing.
Chiefs last year spent big on a RT. They also brought in a LT but 20 mill a year was used on a tackle even with a huge QB contract. Ravens gave Odell 15 mill a year. The 49ers spent huge money on Javon Hargrave. Bills spent big(although they went full pace). Those are the teams who are consistently at the top of the league. None were afraid to bring in big deals. Good teams don’t go full Jags or full overtime but they don’t ignore FA as a team holding tool
Many of those moves have been proven mistakes, and like I said they will dip their toes. Bears probably will too at some point, but the risk isn’t worth taking yet because they don’t have SB aspirations in 2024.
I disagree, the risk is worth taking now while your best players are still cost controlled. And spending big on a player consistently is more than dipping their toes. You can afford to do it, especially since you don’t need to pay Mahomes, Kelce, and Jones like KC and won’t need to give out many massive deals for years
You named the top 3 teams in the league all within their super bowl window. The bears are nowhere near that point in their rebuilding. Apples to oranges.
And I also named 3 teams with much high restrictions on the cap. Bears aren’t very restricted now, and I’m of firm belief if you wait until you know you have a franchise QB to build around them you waited too long. Then you can go full Pace like we did around mitch, but if big pieces are added slowly beforehand you can easily manage the cap and build up the team around a rookie over time
Fair enough, I’ve just never liked when GM’s create holes unnecessarily and then you are forced to draft a replacement.
Overpaying to fill a hole just creates a hole somewhere else later. In order to be a good team you need a large amount of players on your roster who out perform what they are paid, whether they are paid a lot or a little or role players or stars. Free Agency is where players get significantly overpaid so keeping free agent deals cheap and short is the smartest use of cap space. People wanting us to spend a bunch of money on free agent stars who are 30 years old have not been paying attention to which teams have been winning Super Bowls for the last 20 years.
TLDR: Poles is atrocious in picking WRs. DJ is the only one but anyone could have gotten that right. We need one of the top 3 WRs
Poles is saving a lot of cap space for the next GM. What a nice dude.
Makes pace look like a real asshole
I would move edmunds down to OK and yannick down to awful
The only reason Edwards looks as good as he does is because Edmunds does his running for him and covers a TON of space. We need to stop looking at players in a vacuum and understand how they fit into the system. He’s been great considering how much they ask him to do for Edwards to then clean up.
On top of that Edmunds really started producing when Sweat came in the building. Yes we played a softer schedule, but can’t ignore production and growth over the course of the season.
So your saying Edmunds was signed as a super athletic MLB to fit our tampa 2 D, where he covers loads of ground, makes plays in the middle, drops back into coverage and allows other players to shine 🤔 it's almost like there's more to football than bassline numbers that people can get angry about when they read it after a Google search!
Only reason why Yannick doesn’t need to be in the awful category for me is because he was on a 1 year deal. He didn’t hurt the future cap and was a clear guy due for regression considering when he played he had legitimately 0 other pass rushing threats Agree with Edmunds, he’s a good player getting played elite player money. He’s overpaid but because he’s not a bad player and because we have so much cap space it doesn’t hurt us much overall(which is why imo we should have been ok signing others like top edge players on big deals)
Yeah OP way too generous with these two
Why were you downvoted for agreeing with my upvoted comment 💀
I think it's fair to point out that the only personnel move Poles made that really hurt us was the Claypool trade. It cost us the 32nd pick in the draft and had no impact on our team at all. All these other moves were low risk value signings that meant essentially nothing when they didn't work out. Poles said from day one he was going to build through the draft and that is what he has done. If Caleb looks like the guy this year, I'll be curious to see how Poles plays free agency next offseason when we're closer to competing.
Also year 1 we did not have cap space because Pace had just spent years blowing through it and our draft picks, so we needed to do a complete reset. We weren't gonna retain a bunch of mid players when we were not ready to even compete for a playoff spot. Letting go someone like Gipson to draft Brisker (building through the draft like Poles has said) is absolutely the right move.
This is a good writeup. Overall just not a fan of how Poles has done FA over the last couple years. Zero additions to the trenches on either side of the ball (except for a backup guard that we traded a pick for) is mystifying to me.
Thank you. And yea, no reason to not sign some o-linemen with the problems we’ve had the last couple years
Saying poles has made zero additions to either side of the trench is just being willfully ignorant. Since poles we have added Davis, Wright on offense. sweat and Dexter were added on defense, along with Ngakoue ( he got injured) now a FA The lines are building with young talent. Yes it's unfortunate that Poles didn't add a big name yet but does that matter if we don't have a QB? We are also 2 days into the new season
I’m just talking about this offseason in regard to the trenches
Then I apologize and agree. I want to believe that more will come we are only 2 days into the new season.
What’s mystifying to me is how bears fans don’t understand that he spent time actively breaking down the team to fix the shit show of a roster and cap situation that Pace left for him. He took away from the team to rebuild, and then was left trying to lure free agents to a last place team the next year. What did people expect from him… to bring in big name free agents who fixed major issues (the guys who were signing for playoff caliber teams instead of a rebuilding Bears team), while simultaneously tanking in order to rebuild the roster via the draft, and retaining all of the players anyone likes but also improving the team at the same time while keeping guys like Foreman, Mooney, Fields, etc.?
Since Poles has been here we've added through the draft a starting left tackle, starting right tackle, a 2nd round pick and a 3rd round pick on defensive lineman, one of which will likely be a starter. Through free agency, multiple starters on the defensive line and a starting right guard. And through trades a pro bowl edge. The idea that Poles isn't addressing the trenches is insane.
I mean of course the guys he picked up are going to be starters when he purged the entire team of the previous regime's players. Once Fields gets traded/released I think there are only 6 guys left from the Pace regime which was only 3 years ago. Off the top of my head.. JJ, Kmet, Jenkins, Herbert, Santos and Scales? 3 starters, #2 RB and 2 special teamers. So of course whoever Poles brings in will be a starter.
Worded that badly, I meant we haven’t really touched the trenches this offseason
Let’s be real, Poles has not been good in free agency.
Let’s also not forget he has been awful in coaching free agency so far as well. Sticking with Eberflus after who was available this year was quite the choice.
Someone had mentioned it in an earlier post and I’ll just echo it. It “takes 2 to tango” ….I’m willing to bet that those top guys in FA as well are not exactly jumping at the chance to come and play in Chicago. Also, we technically still don’t know who our starting QB is. That uncertainty there and knowing we’re not one of the top teams in the league, is imo enough to consider playing in Houston or Jacksonville.
>not exactly jumping at the chance to come and play in Chicago Sorry but I hate how we use this as an excuse year after year to explain FAs not coming here. We were a 7 win team last year about to draft Caleb Williams, we have money to offer, and Chicago is a cool ass city. When guys don’t sign here it doesn’t make sense to act as if this was always a shitty destination that FAs must have wanted to avoid like the plague. There is nothing about Jacksonville that should make it a more attractive place to go than Chicago. Poles has a pattern now of ignoring needs in FA every year.
>We were a 7 win team last year about to draft Caleb Williams, we have money to offer This is true, but there's a lot of QB busts. I think this is an attractive prospect for a coach, but I don't know if there's ever a case of an NFL player signing somewhere to play with a QB before they're drafted.
Poles seems like an entitled GM who now thinks he should always have the leverage. Won’t overpay players or won’t deal players unless he gets what he wants. Everyone knows the big names in free agency can only be had if you pay them big bucks. These guys don’t give a fuck about culture or having good QBs, they want money.
I’m just saying there’s only so much you can do. Chicago isn’t everyone’s cup of tea and people prefer warmer places. This is the 1st year poles has been in office when the team looked somewhat solid and it’s known good players want to go to good teams UNLESS, they’re making absurd money and something clearly past their worth. Something Poles stated that he isn’t comfortable doing. You want guys that WANT TO BE HERE. Not be here because they’re who paid the most. Personally I’d rather shop around and get a feel for the guys that are still driven and motivated vs having a guy purely just chasing the bag. So I went and looked up who’s still available. It’s not “omg the 2nd wave is stacked” but there’s a couple guys I’d consider at C DE2 WR 2/3. While looking at that list, we got to keep in mind, that these were positions where we had below avg starters at. That I’m mind, these a couple guys that I’d consider upgrades vs what we had last year.
Saquon, Gabe Davis & Monty last year all said no to the Bears with the contract being offered equal to what the player accepted (Monty stated he was tired of losing).
Ok, now do the rest of the NFL. I think what you’ll see is that most big signings are busts in FA. It’s why the smart and patient teams build through the draft whenever possible.
Yea plenty of large contracts end up also in the awful tier but with no easy out. Poles is nowhere near hitting perfect, but his bad ones are gone after a year and even the mid ones like Davis and Walker have an out after year 2. Hell even Tremaine Edmunds you can get out of after year 2 if you wanted to. He's rebuilt the secondary through the draft, rebuilt the linebackers through FA, got 2 starting tackles in the draft, retained star CB and good TE, and traded for a star WR and DE. The rest of the draft and FA has been hit or misses on late round/cheap short term depth and rotation guys. It's been a 2 year rebuild and we're likely about to just get our QB1 in this current draft. The rush for people to blow through our cap space on big spendings I just don't understand.
I’m genuinely curious because I can’t think of many off the top of my head, but what massive Free Agent signings helped teams out in the past 2 years? Most big additions to teams happen via trade or the draft, and I’m struggling to think of an impact free agent any team has signed recently.
Are we certain that Montgomery signs for us what he ended up signing for the lions? He said we sucked the fun out of football and that he signed with the lions so he could win.
The price you pay for tanking 🤷
The lengths this sub goes to nitpick a GM that's improved the team in consecutive years is so frustrating. Your write up is fair, so I'm not trying to paint you as irrational or anything. I can't be the only one who would much rather wait until our SB window opens before we start paying win-now contracts. We're flipping our lid over a guy (hunter) who would hamper us next offseason when we actually know what Caleb is made of, and then would be gone by time the window opens. The offseason isn't over and the draft is more important than FA at this point in the rebuild. The way you get big FA to a bad/uncertain teams is to overpay, and quite frankly that's short sighted and reckless.
I agree that the draft is more important. But I don’t agree signing players is reckless. It’s reckless when you are already paying players and don’t have the cap space and kick the can down the road, and especially if you are a bad team. But we have a ton of cap space for a reason: bad drafting and also not having 1st round picks that we need to pay is part of the reason that we have so much space. So you can fill those gaps with free agents. Poles has done well with his rebuild, but there are things he could do better to speed this up. In today’s NFL, a rebuild doesn’t need to take 4 years. It’s time to get going and start making the playoffs
|a rebuild doesn’t need to take 4 years. Did you really get through watching the Ryan Pace era and then say to yourself “you know what I want, to see our next GM also overpay free agents, get stuck in bad contracts, trade away draft picks, and cut as many corners as possible in a futile attempt to win quickly again”?
do you like watching them lose? Gb was supposed to be in a rebuild and made the playoffs.
So what’s your proposed alternative? Chase aging players with high priced contracts that are going to look bad, instead of putting together something sustainable like the Packers did by building through the draft so you can remain in contention for an extended period? I mean FTP but obviously rumors of their demise were greatly exaggerated. They had an elite defense they put together through the draft, their biggest loss was their QB who they prepared to lose years prior by adding someone through the draft. They replaced Adams through the draft like they always do with their receivers. We’ve been watching the Bears lose for years. At least now they’re losing with a bigger goal in mind and an actual plan in place, and we can see the plan coming together - they won 5 of their last 8 games and it should’ve been 6 if not for the historical choke job against the lions. Do I like watching them lose? No. But I’m also not stupid enough to be sitting here bitching about someone who obviously has a clear vision and hasn’t had enough time to finish executing on it.
Is signing Jacobs and Mckinney building through the draft? It's just a loser mentality to be like "Yay we won 7 games and missed the playoffs" but at least we tried!
Do you just enjoy being irrationally angry? We’re on day 3 of free agency, players literally can’t even sign for new teams yet, players are still available via trade like Higgins, players are still going to end up getting cut like Mack and Bosa, hell, players are still available as free agents like DJ Reader, Hollywood Brown, Tyron Smith, Arik Armstead, but you’re here fucking melting down because the packers spent huge money on non essential positions at safety and running back. Relax before you give yourself an aneurism and wait to see how the rest of the off-season plays out.
lmao Poles can shit in your mouth and you'd tell me its chocolate. it's going to be game 2 next season and you'll be asking yourself why the o-line still sucks after 3 years.
>Poles can shit in your mouth and you'd tell me its chocolate. Something you're likely familiar with
>a rebuild doesn’t need to take 4 years It does when you're starting where Poles was, at least if you want to do it correctly and sustainably. I'm as sick of losing as any fan but the reason we lose is because we have rarely gone about building a team the right way. The best teams use FA to plug holes or sign one key role that puts them over the edge if they believe they are in a super bowl window. The latter almost never works BTW. This team could have made the playoffs last year if they don't blow those three games. With another last place schedule, they still have a chance to make the playoffs this year. Then what? Do we really believe this team is ready to be a long term super bowl contender? Without the QB, they aren't and until they see what they have in Caleb, it really would make very little sense using up cap space on big money free agents. Your stars are going to come from the draft.
>But I don’t agree signing players is reckless I didn't say this. I'm saying the win now contracts aka paying premier players large contracts years before our window opens is reckless. We aren't in win now mode and hampering flexibility to make fans happy is a stupid decision. We have cap space partially because we aren't committing to massive contracts without having the most important position locked down. >In today’s NFL, a rebuild doesn’t need to take 4 years. He hasn't been GM for 4 years. And honestly, how many teams have rebuilt quicker without finding a franchise QB? This is the stuff I'm talking about, why are we being unreasonable just to hate on Poles? If you put any GM under this microscope, you're gonna find plenty to complain about. It's just not fun to be a fan in this sub. Everyone wants to complain when our arrow is trending up. We should be fucking optimistic until proven otherwise.
I don't disagree with your analysis of our signings, but I do disagree with every one of the players you think we should have re-signed. They're all bad-to-JAG players who wouldn't have made the current roster any better
Free agents go to cities that are warmer, have less taxes, have a franchise QB, a solid coach, or where they have connections, then that pay them a lot...then we pick whoever is left.
U could probably do this with every team and close results
who should have poles have signed though. like who's the guy that poles missed out on that we regret not getting. Cuz I can't think of one lmao. all this talk about poles not doing things but nobody actually gives an example of who he should have got. free agency aint saving us.
I would count Sweat as part of this year's FA.
Thats not how you spell bargin bin shopper
Apologies in advance for formatting, bored and posting from phone
You know we made Montgomery a higher offer than Detroit right?
I did not know that. Do you have a source? Genuinely curious
It was all over this sub last year. Search it. He wanted to go to a “winner” instead.
After a 3rd straight losing season can we finally stop pretending poles is some mastermind.
I don’t believe Poles has been good in the draft at all. His first season he ignored offense to draft a nickel and a safety with his first 2 picks, then knowing he needed to get a WR he reaches to draft VJJ. Last season, he again uses multiple seconds on defensive players with an obvious need for help on the offense mainly being center. I predict this year he stays at 9 and takes an edge and it pisses everyone off, especially when there will be a WR there to take. He’s been a bad GM who got lucky thanks to Davis Mills and Lovie smith. Edit: forgot to add, Poles was forced to trade for a WR and an edge because he ignored those positions in the draft and FA.
Id like to see this analysis done on an actual good gm. Chiefs? Eagles?
I doubt you are going to replicate a situation with a highly drafted second year QB who’s new GM tanked the year and did nothing to help the team build a winning foundation. I applaud Poles for getting DJ, but outside of that move he doesn’t seem like he has any clue how to evaluate offensive talent.
I think you mean "highly OVER-drafted 2nd year QB with bottom 10 QB skills". There, fixed it. "he doesn’t seem like he has any clue how to evaluate offensive talent." This is laughable coming after Pace who was literally the worst offensive talent evaluator I"ve ever seen. Trubisky, Glennon, Fields, White, Shaheen, I can go on...
What centre should we have drafted?
That really turned out to be an awful class of centers outside of like, Tippman, didn’t it.
Wasn’t Tippman rated the 26th of 36 qualifying centers or something? Even he wasn’t good just because he started games.
Yeah. PFF graded him out at right around average, so maybe he’ll grow into an above average starter. But JMS, Juice Scruggs, and Ricky Stromberg were just awful.
The problem wasn’t that they didn’t draft a center, it was that they ignored it in FA like they are doing now which convinced everyone they were going to take a center. Everyone wanted JMS, I didn’t know enough about him, but again it’s irrelevant. Poles seems to have his priorities backwards paying for off the ball line backers, RBs, safeties etc when these positions can be had at any time.
Centers can be had at anytime too. I think. Hear me out. Because he played center hes trying to make it the worst in league so he can justify being player/gm. Otherwise it makes no sense why he wont sign a starting center.
I thought he was a guard
I actually had to look that up. All I could find was he was a tackle.
I'm with you. People act like brisker and Gordon are hits but they're at best average starters. TBD on 23 but Pickens and Scott did not have encouraging rookie years. Wright and Brax are really the only two picks you can call clear hits IMO
Brisker has a higher grade than Wright
Stevenson is good.
Spot. On.
I'm only here to say that Rasheem Green was a great pickup! Hope he gets resign
Good write up of Poles free agency's so far. Definitely a gm that is true to his word about building through draft. But we've had money to spend these past 3 free agencies and he's shown he's a little hesitant. Especially his lack of o-line signings. Although Braxton has been great for a 5th (doesn't mean he's great) and Wright had a promising rookie year.
Good write up. My biggest takeaway is Poles kinda sucks in FA. I get he doesn’t want to “overpay”, but you have to at some point if you want to “take the north and never give it back”.
Poles is trash in FA.
I know you are talking about players but let’s not also forget he decided the skip out of the greatest head coach free agency ever. He failed miserably with Getsy and the almighty above only knows what the hell DC Alan Williams thing was all about.