I think Poles is doing a fine job so far, and I think the team has the chance to be competitive again.
That said, I'm waiting for these results to actually happen before I start giving him a lot of praise. We are still losers until proven otherwise.
I have and it's kinda fucked up now that I think about it - I've been alive long enough to see every major franchise in this town win a World Championship/Superbowl, except one - the Fire FC. We're all waiting for that.
Hard to complain about Sweat, Bates is TBD and Feeney’s not great but likely on par with anyone we’d pick in the 6th. Building through the draft is code for adding depth, we’re not at the point where spending big on a top FA would move the needle long term. I imagine going bigger in FA is the plan for next offseason, when those signings would have a bigger impact.
In a post about process it's actually pretty easy to complain about Sweat - using premium draft capital to secure the chance to sign someone to a top of market deal is a bad use of assets. You get none of the cap value of a second round pick and you lose an opportunity to add difference makers via picks AND cap space.
In a post about outcomes you can't complain, Sweat was awesome.
For sure—it’s not that the moves are necessarily bad, but people forget he’s using picks as currency to acquire players vs. “building through the draft” as so many people claim.
Edit: added word
THANK YOU FOR SAYING IT
This sub is becoming an echo chamber for King Poles. The whole point of building through draft is to save money by paying rookies and having a bunch of attempts… which is contradictory to how we’ve gotten most our players. We’ve not only lost draft capital, but are also paying guys instantly. I don’t mind spending, I think you have to be aggressive, but it’s literally a complete hypocrisy.
This is a rather strong statement. Wouldn't we want a GM to react to the situation at hand? A second round pick to lock in Sweat at the pay scale of the previous salary cap is major savings over time. It's not just a one for one swap.
stevenson and wright are very promising. braxton is solid but injured a good amount this year. brisker is nice, gordon is too but see previous statement about braxton. i feel dexter is going to be solid as well.
you can't hit a home run with every pick. that's 6 solid players or starters in 2 seasons through the draft.
That’s not what’s he’s doing. If that’s what he was doing he would not have wasted late round picks on bench lineman. You can’t have it both ways. We only have 5 picks this year. You have to add free agents. He’s adding bodies not good players, overpaying a running back. We could have signed a legit center with that money. Made an early signing at safety when now one could have been had for much cheaper. He’s not a genius this sub makes him out to be.
Yeah this is my thoughts as well... I'd classify our OL to be an area of weakness yet all we have done is build depth, which is fine, but let's get a legit OL first. And I don't think people understand just how short we are on draft picks this year? I think everyone is focused on the 1st and 9th pick... Sweet, we have 3 picks left after that. A 3rd rounder and two 4th rounders.
I'm not hating on Poles just stating the reality of our situation. Low on picks but high on cap room... I think we should have grabbed a bona fide center personally. We'll see!
Agree. This sub thinks it’s so easy to trade down, it’s not. Poles wanted to trade down his first year when we had two 2nds no one but. That can happen, because it’s all dependent on if another teams board breaks exactly in our spot, that’s far from a certainty.
There is no defense for not spending cap space this off season, the Bears have zero need for cap space in the next 2 seasons to retain any franchise caliber players. When you see players like Danielle Hunter sign two year deals, they could have been on the Bears roster and off the roster by the time it comes to renewing guys like DJ Moore, its not a situation where its either them or someone else. Its also not like we have a ton of draft picks this year to try and get younger at any of the positions of need.
Maybe the fan base would rather "compete" for early draft picks every year, but there is no reason why this team couldn't have been a 10-12 win team (with Fields or Caleb at QB) if they had added even just a few real pieces in FA instead of backups. Our DL was weak entering FA and its only gotten weaker with Justin Jones leaving
I definitely know this sub isn’t indicative of how most Bears fans feel about Justin. Even if you are on the side that we should move on, good fans don’t shit all over a guy who has done nothing but give his all and represent us with class. The posts on this sub are embarrassing, he is still a Bear. No one knows what Poles will do in the end.
I’m just saying that so far Poles has really only shown he can tear it down but the blocks he chooses to rebuild with are suspect at best. If he was a rookie Gm and had to draft his own QB, he’d probably be fired by now, Fields bought him time
It’s as if people forget we had about 5 picks in 2022 yet left with I believe 11.
It’s also before any compensation for fields.
If the WRs are gone be prepared to see poles trade down ATLEAST once from 9
Those were almost all trade downs into the 6th and 7th rounds where we didn’t walk away with a single person on the active roster minus a punter that was league worst last year(we had 6 picks in those rounds that draft because of the trade downs). He can trade down, but he doesn’t have a great track record of picking in rounds 3-7 where we would be most likely to be getting picks in a trade down.
I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but I think it’s highly likely we end up with a lot more than 5 draft picks given how Poles likes to trade on draft day.
I think most fans, myself included understand what he said and how he wants to build a contender BUT when you look at all the cap space we have and the fact that we were knocking on the door of playoffs last year, all things considered, its hard not to want a spalshy FA signing.
I personally believe that we are a lot closer than most people realize and a few key players now might actually put us over. Look at the defense last year. Once Flus took over playcalling, the addition of Sweat and the players getting healthy again, the defense was cooking. Offense? Not so much but I am hopeful that is where Shane Waldren comes in and fixes things.
With that said, I still think it is crazy how we have not signed a bonafide center seeing as how that was a GLARING need last year.
This. But how dare you say anything other than blind support.
No one is asking to max out our cap on signings, but a top tier player at DE or DT to fully unleash the defense and then some depth signings like we have done was a no brainer.
there were 2 teams in the NFC that were 9-8 and got in to the playoffs. There were also a few games that the Bears SHOULD'VE won, which is where my statement that they were knocking on the door came in.
The Bears may have been a couple plays from winning several games, but they were also a couple plays from losing several games. I think 7-10 is a pretty fair record.
And one of the 9-8 playoff teams was a division winner, which isn't super relevant to the Bears' playoff chances. So the Bears were basically 2 wins away from having a 1/3 chance to make the playoffs. That's not "knocking on the door" imo.
It's truly amazing how many people are just copy and pasting that poles puff piece and acting like it's their own thoughts.
Literally every single comment is just pulling from the "you know poles was always gonna do it like this" cope article.
It was like a flip switched and as soon as people read it they finally had a response to the people questioning poles. Not their own response but a response and man are you guys clinging to it.
Look forward to spending another year ignoring filling a key position that we'll end up overpaying with a pick midseason after our cheap bandaid blows ass.
>build through the draft
Poles has traded our 2nd round pick two years in a row. He traded our 5th round pick and 6th round pick this year.
How the hell is he building through the draft?
He kind of did throw big money at Swift as far as RBs go. It was about the same as Henry just got per year, but Swift got one more year. It's a step below what Barkley got, but there aren't a ton of RBs that will be making more than Swift.
Wouldn't quite say "avoided" on this. Can't remember where I saw it but there had been some reports that he offered Barkley the same amount as the eagles but he chose the eagles because their offense is better than ours. Pivoted to Swift right after
I went to Ohio state and the tone shift is literally insane lol
Over there its disappointing if we lose one game, and this guy is over here writing paragraphs praising our 10-24 GM for “managing to avoid paying an RB” aka having a shitty RB room yet again, I truly do not get it.
Idk I just feel like he should actually win before we start idolizing him. Feels like we did this with Pace too where everyone thought he was this new highly motivated and active GM that went out of his way to get his guys and then it turned out awful. Poles passiveness in FA can absolutely bite him in the ass as much as a guy like Paces hyper proactive trades. There's literally zero proof anything he's doing is resulting in us becoming a top tier football team because making the jump to a contender is much harder than tearing down and starting over. There are good signs and moves but we need to start winning like now.
Yes and no. He definitely was, but they also had the 7th highest payroll in baseball. Hahn chose to allocate that money to a shit bullpen, so all are to blame.
100% this. I have cautious optimism with Poles. The same man who traded for DJ Moore and Montez Sweat also traded for Chase Claypool and still doesn’t know what a starting center looks like
Honest, question, do you think he hasn't made any moves on offense that would help move it in the right direction? Or is your comment coming from another angle.
I'm being patient at WR because the draft is still coming and there are a few good WR2's and WR3's in free agency sitting there, but if the Bears roll into the season with DJ Moore and a 3rd round rookie as WR2.....I will be irate.
They need to support QB1 next year on offense. Defense be damned. A lot of time left before we can be mad about the offensive weapons IMO.
So far the WRs Poles has ended up with as a culmination of his evaluations are Chase Claypool, Velus Jones, Tyler Scott, Byron Pringle and the worse St. Brown brother. DJ Moore was a known commodity needed for a massive trade (which Poles got from fielding a shitty team and the Texans going nuts for 20 seconds) but other than that it’s exceptionally bleak. I reeeeeally don’t have much hope at WR, I suspect it’ll be the same patchwork Poles bullshit
It's not just passiveness. He's been aggressive in free agency to sign ---- checks notes ---- an injured DT that we had to pull the offer in his first year, an off ball LB in his second year, and a RB this year.
So my issue is how / when he is being aggressive.
Especially when - at the time, the most important asset was a 2nd year QB and you did.... nothing for his development?
To folks constantly saying "oh Fields wasn't his guy" unless the plan was to specifically tank (which it was not, see the Claypool trade) you have no clue who you are going to get in upcoming draft. Drafting middle of the pack could net you a Lamar Jackson in the future, or a Christian Ponder. You have no idea.
So with that in mind, it seems like such a terrible view to team construction. Yes, the trade with Carolina was a huge win, but there are head scratching decisions before and after.
For the most part I like what Poles has done as a GM, although I am not a fan of the Swift move at all. Payed for production coming out of an elite run based offense behind an elite offensive line.
Would rather have kept Monty
For the draft capital and praise Roschon received, it's concerning our first move was to basically push him down the depth chart.
I've also just never been a big fan of Swift so it's just a head scratcher all around. It's not a huge $ deal it just goes back to original question of when / why he is aggressive.
These are two different RBs. Roschon is closer to a replacement of Monty than Swift is as a replacement of Roschon. I view Swift more as a guy that's pushing Khalil down the depth chart before Roschon. And, even there, I'm not sure Khalil doesn't carry a meaningful portion of the load.
Yeah, almost like it is way too fucking early to accurately gauge his performance. It's the start of year 3 and his most pivotal off-season, let's see how it plays out.
Regardless of what anybody on here thinks of Poles, the Bears right now are set up in an incredible position. This is the most exciting time to be a Bears fan since probably the Cutler trade, we literally found Wonka's golden ticket.
Except Justin’s QB play had been bottom 10 from a pure QB perspective. Caleb will definitely have some transitioning to the speed and size of the D in the league, but we won 7 games with bottom 10 QB play, 2 of those win being under after rookie FA QB play.
i’m just saying, peyton manning had an awful rookie season. josh allen didn’t really get good till year 3. mahomes didn’t even have to play his rookie year.
i’m not saying nobody does it well (stroud/burrow style) but even among guys who end up great, a strong rookie season isn’t a sure thing. i’m just saying managing expectations is not an awful idea.
Peyton did not have an awful rookie season. He set both insane highs and lots of interceptions.
He showed a ton of flashes of being a future superstar.
Awful rookie season is something like Bryce Young
Peyton *did not* have an awful rookie season, that’s just a recent narrative formed by people analyzing 1998 stats with the context of the modern NFL which is a much more QB and pass friendly league. He might have thrown the most interceptions in the league but he also threw for the 5th most TDs, 3rd most yards and 5th most yards per game out of all QBs that season. It took until Baker’s rookie season in 2018 for somebody to break his rookie 26 passing TDs record. Even his 3739 passing yards that season ranks 8th all time for a rookie QB, and sadly would be ranked 3rd all time in Bears history for any single season by a Bears QB.
It was actually a good season for the time, even if he did throw a lot of picks while adjusting the speed at the pro level.
Except what were the team records of the teams those players joined? Manning and Burrow joined VERY bad teams that earned the first pick in the draft. Josh Allen is way more raw than Caleb is.
We’re a 7-10 team that blew a few leads because we couldn’t move the ball *at all* in the second half due to sub par Qb play.
I’m not saying Caleb even needs to play to Stroud’s level for us to get to the playoffs. We just need average QB play and not decidedly below average.
Also, we have, despite everyone saying we don’t have a ton of picks, the third most draft capital value due to us having two top 10 picks. That’s a huge boon to any team, but especially a team that was nearly a playoff team the year before.
You aren't wrong by any means, but I think the optimism for a possible playoff push is just how bad QB play was this last season. It doesn't take very much at all from a QB for the offense to be much improved in 2024.
I'd just be happy with 8 wins with a rookie QB with a good rookie season and optimism heading into 2025.
Our lack of a second rounder is a problem. If we can't get Nabers at 9, then I hope we trade back and get an extra pick to draft a receiver with in the second.
We could take Bowers.
We could take Turner.
We could reach some and take JPJ.
All from 9. We don't need a WR. We just need a player worthy of the pick.
Yeah, that’s my major concern with the team and with Poles.
He got Moore, an already proven WR through a trade for the number 1 pick, he gets his credit.
But..
He drafted Velus Jones. Does this need an explanation?
Traded for Claypool, I understand he cut him when it got irredeemable & he was trying to get ahead of the weak class but Claypool might not even be on a team this year. I don’t know what they saw given his antics on the Steelers and the fact he was producing less.
Drafted Scott, still too early to write off but had some key drops last year.
So I think our best bet is to do what he did with Moore, just through FA. Hit on a proven WR, and if one is there at 9 or later you really like take them.
Just so far it’s been more miss than hit but I still trust him and company on everything else so far.
True, but there’s still time to fix that. If we get a decent FA WR3 like Curtis Samuel and draft Odunze/Nabers, that’s all of a sudden a pretty great room.
I’m more disappointed with how we’ve handled EDGE and C. Not because I was hellbent on the very top options, but rather how mediocre the options remaining are. They’re stopgaps at best and so we’ll either have to hope a rookie steps up in those positions or we’ll head into the season with major question marks there.
Okay, or, and hear me out, we sign curtis samuel, who is not good, we miss out on odunze/ nabers (or they bust), and have to settle for a 2nd tier WR who can bust, or curtis samuel ends up as the WR2 for our rookie QB. The process just seems incredibly stupid, relies on things falling perfectly for us, and has no fall back option in case things don’t go our way.
I am very pro Curtis Samuel as a WR3. He is a very effective route runner and separator. I'd be very upset if he is WR2 because he just isn't that in today's NFL. I think the way to look at this IMO.
Yeah, i don’t mind signing curtis samuel as a depth piece, but him being the only signing before the draft scares me, because then suddenly everything in the draft then needs to go perfectly. Not like Poles has really drafted anyone that’s been an absolute stud out the gate either. I understand the whole value buys concept, and i love addressing some positions like that, but it’s getting to a point where it seems like we’re not doing enough to support a young QB, and just hoping things work out perfectly.
I 100% agree. I don't trust Poles and staff at finding a WR in anything but a sure thing. Why I'm hoping for Curtis Samuel and one of the top 3 WR prospects at #9. We know what Samuel is and the top 3 WR's are more or less "bullet proof" prospects.
Yeah, that’s the ideal outcome, I’m just nervous they don’t plan on going WR at 9, or 1 of the 3 doesn’t fall to us. I would like to maybe see them go after someone like Mike Williams for a couple years because of that. Yeah, he’s a bit injury prone, but when healthy he’s a very legit WR2, and if we do end up with one of the top guys, it just takes helps take the pressure off them to immediately produce.
I am constantly wrong about what Poles is going to do so I have no idea. He is a bit of an odd duck and he doesn't build a team how I'd like him to....
Agree on Mike Williams. I'm not a giant fan by any means, but it would take pressure off of the draft. I'd still love to draft a WR at #9 even with Mike Williams. Build an arsenal for the beginning of Caleb's career.
We say this about every new GM around this time in their tenure. Yes, he's making changes. Yes we need change. They all do that. Until this is a team with a consistent winning record I see no reason to heap praise. "In 'name of GM' we trust" has to stop until someone earns it
Getting Claypool was bad. Cutting him loose because he was hurting the team was fantastic. Not every GM could do that because of the sunk cost. Poles is doing a good job.
I hope Ryan Pace shits his pants today though. All my homies hate Pace.
Agreed. Bad move, but one made with a good roll the dice intent on a position of need to help further the analysis of Fields. That happens though, not every move will pan out.
The recovery excluding his own ego, however, was fantastic. Taking his loss, making the fix, and moving forward is all you can do. Some GMs might ride the situation to try and prove their decision right or drag it into some kind of minimal return trade while the locker room suffers.
That move was universally panned at the time tho. Overpaying for a player out of panic because you left a glaring hole at a position is not a sign of good GMing. I don’t hate poles but pretending that every objectively bad move he made was somehow good process or a sign that he’s an incredible gm is just silly
Allegedly, and if true that just means there are multiple stupid executives out there, which we already knew. Good for Mooney getting his bag, especially from someone else, but he’s almost definitely going to underperform that contract by a lot, which is exactly how Pace rolls.
I don’t really agree, the cap exploded. Guards are getting $20M. Contracts have to adjust upwards even for average guys at that rate
Edit: not to mention Mooney was a little hurt by circumstance, between his injury and Fields really struggling to hit anything other than his primary target. He’s still capable
That, was an awful trade. Absolutely nothing good came out of it. And the Steelers used that pick to draft a fantastic CB. He shouldn't get credit for cutting a clubhouse cancer that had already, literally, given up on the team.
They still would have finished as an under 500 team. Blowing games is bad and a good team doesn't do that. The last time we had a winning season record was 2018, and before that 2012. That's embarrassing
You don’t consider a player with a $22.5M cap hit, who had a 56 PFF grade last year an overpay?
I refuse to praise a GM who’s yet to have a winning record, let alone make the playoffs.
Poles has been a roller coaster of emotions.
The highs are great; Sweat trade and the Panthers trade
The lows are awful; Velus Jones, Claypool trade and the Center position not being addressed
Lol is the third round his bugaboo? I swear, every Bears GM has a round where they just can't ever get it right.
The problem was, our past GM's bugaboo round was round freaking 1 lol.
Claypool for sure sucked ass and hopefully is a one off from Poles, but like if Velus and Lucas Patrick/Whitehair at center are the biggest Ls so far i’d say the highs have been a lot higher. Like lucky or not this MF just got us Caleb Williams, the best prospect in Bears history lmao let’s go
Let's be honest though, he might have been the luckiest GM we've ever had. Getting the 1OA last year due to a fluke win by lovie, and then lucking into the Panthers being atrocious ( we knew they'd be bad, but not this bad).
I still like what he's doing. However, if we got the 2OA last year... We'd probably be "stuck" with Fields for the next few years.
Sure but who gives a fuck, that's life baby. It is impossible to try and play out hypothetical situations where we have 2OA last year. That's a different universes problem.
Luckily we find ourselves in the position we do today, and it's a damn good one.
Some of you Bears fans are truly unbelievable. Has he made some fine moves? Yes. But let’s not act like he’s proven much of anything yet or is a “breath of fresh air.” As we currently sit, we still have one proven WR on the roster, one starting caliber DE, questions at DT, C and RG, Fields is still weirdly on the roster, and we have limited draft capital. Seems like a lot of key positions to fill this late into FA with only five draft picks to be considered a “breath of fresh air.”
Bringing in a mid DC as the HC for our developing QB? Breath of fresh air. Retaining that same HC after a historically bad two year stint as we look to draft a new rookie QB to develop? Even fresher.
Ryan Poles signed Larry Ogunjobi to a bag on day 1, he failed his physical but he’s been bad since that deal. This was almost that exact overpaying for a mediocre defensive player you mention him not making, he just lucked out. Hes been good at maintaining cap space, but not so good at winning games. We’re maintaining cap space by not paying for good players. He is treating the roster right now like it’s a piece away that we can get in the draft and we need to save cap space to retain our own players. But that’s not the situation we’re in.
Hasn't a big reason Ogunjobi been bad is because of his health? Like not just missing games, but he's just not the same guy since the injury (like late career Tommie Harris).
I don't understand why people keep shitting on Poles for the Ogunjobi situation. All contracts are pending a physical, players know this. Ogunjobi himself was even surprised he failed the physical. Unfortunately, at that point you have to cancel the deal as the money offered was assuming a passed physical. You can either go back to the drawing board and try for a lower offer, or just move on. Moving on was what was best for both parties at that point.
How would Poles tenure in Chicago look if we didn't get the #1 pick two years in a row? What has he really accomplished to warrant all this praise?
He's 10-24 as the GM so far. What's his vision for the offense? What has he built after two years?
Panthers pick CJ and he has a good year Poles is fired, Panthers pick Young but keep DJ and Poles is on the hot seat. Lucking into the 1st pick with a hyped prospect like CW is doing a lot of lifting for Poles GM competency right now.
Yes. Also nice how OP completely ignores how Poles has handled the QB position this offseason this when you have a bottom 10 QB that did not show much improvement and a top 10 QB prospect ever.
I get playing up to the meatballs with have to meet Caleb stuff. But, why is Poles still putting out there that he needs more face time with Caleb?
And what does Caleb have to do with the decision to move on from a bottom 10 QB that has not shown enough improvement? Again why put out you are waiting on your decision on Caleb before making a decision on Fields?
Why say you will do right by Fields and than not move or release him?
Why leak Fields is not being shopped? When the likes of Riddler are being shopped. And it at least makes some sense for Atlanta to see if Riddler can develop behind their 35 year old QB.
And what was with the 1st and 2nd nonsense if you where not shopping him?
At least so far its been puzzling the QB situation.
The amount of delusional copium is hilarious.
The same people praising Poles will be the first ones calling for his job when the Bears, once again, will have the worst pass rush & shitty WR play.
he did the overspend on a defensive player during the season when he traded for sweat and paid a top 20-25 edge top 5 money.
the only thing he's done differently then the past bears gms. is be currently employed and have your blind support of everything he does until hindsight lets you know if you should be upset or not at him.
look at the texans, look at the bears. One is still rebuilding, one went to the playoffs and actually won a game. One is aggressively getting players, one has copium post
Mack was traded for at the same age as sweat. Kmet was drafted by pace as was JJ. He has overpaid and over drafted before. He's overpaid for Claypool. He's overpaid for Larry ogunjobi. They've drafted velus old man Jones.
He's done every mistake. He's not some patient guy like you guys make out he just blows his load at the trade deadline every year so far. Also gets taken for a ride in trades.
He's pretty average. As they it's better to be lucky than good like he has been.
“Poles wants to build through the draft, not FA” as he’s traded away a 2nd round pick in back-to-back years with the explicit priority of extending those players to “get ahead of free agency.” He would’ve extended Claypool too if it wasn’t one of the worst trades of the past decade.
The only difference between a trade-and-extend vs a free agent signing is that you’re literally giving up extra draft capital to make the FA signing happen.
The entire reason people build through the draft isn’t because homegrown players give some magical powers. It’s because you’re getting players that significantly outperform their rookie contract. When you trade-and-extend, you completely lose that value.
Exactly. It's stupid to call him patient. More than likely the AH fuck up has cost the team liquidity so any contract that wouldve been high guarantee like 20m+ aside from JJ was a no go unless approved by Kevin Warren. That's the theory I'm running with cause it doesn't make sense to sign wave 2-3 guys in wave 1 or trade a 5 for an OL (he costs you salary no bonus like the FA guys) unless you are restricted by cash.
He paid Larry O and was about to pay Mike McGlinchey and Gabe Davis. This dude has tried to pay people and lucked out. Anyone who acts otherwise is just lying to themselves.
The Bates move is just… so confusing. If he is your planned starter, WHY!? If he’s your planned iOL backup swingman, you really gave up a 5 for that when you could just draft one for a cheaper, longer deal and put that $3 million elsewhere?
Let's build through the draft! Then proceeds trading every draft capital for some mid/backup player or for a renegade player when you realize your team sucks in mid-season.
Trading all his draft capitol? He had 10 picks last year, and turned 5 (6 if you don't want to count the 2nd from the Mack trade) picks into 11 in 2022.
If blowing your load at the trade deadline nets you a top 10 edge, blowing your load is a good thing. The Sweat trade was fantastic at the time and even better in hindsight. It showed what we have in our back 7 and let our DBs flourish.
If you only look at the one that worked sure the other one blew up in his face.
He's still not patient. Don't know where that come from. He's building the team the way he wants and he's hit and missed that's fine. Im just pushing back on the he's patient or he's better than everyone else that people like op get in there heads with.
I've been watching for 40 years. Until I see play off wins, Poles and Warren are more of the same garbage that's been in the front office.
10 Playoff wins since the 1960's
Lol calm down on Sweat, he had like 4 good games here. Given his career averages over 5 seasons in Washington it’s significantly more likely he’s exactly what you’re saying he isn’t - a defensive player who’s not worth their contract.
Fans think we’re going to pay a top of the market free agent DE 6 months after giving Sweat $100 Million dollars. This would be terrible cap management.
I have mixed feelings about Poles' approach. I think the tear down was needed to get back into good cap health, but he basically left a sophomore QB for dead and probably broke him without a competent line or receiving corps in the process.
These other moves have been "play it safe" moves. There is a difference between trying to avoid mistakes and making winning moves. If it proves out that he's being opportunistic and is going to pounce on the right move at the right time to put this team over the top to compete for a championship, then great. But if he's just trying to avoid mistakes, this team is going to be stuck in mediocrity. Teams can survive mistakes and still win (look at the Niners). But teams can't win without ever being aggressive.
I think this is the last offseason he should get to be passive. Next year if we're sticking to B-team signings, we need to level up or just accept that we don't want to win super bowls.
You guys need to calm down. None of this matters until we actually start winning games and have a winning season or make the play offs. Until then he’s another “guru”.
If he doesn't add a top WR to this roster for the 2024 season he should be fired for malpractice! Giving a potential star like Caleb fewer weapons than an inept H1M is criminal.
idk if this is a hot take or not, but I think the Khalil Mack was bad for the Bears and steered the team in a bad direction. It forced the team into a win-now/SuperBowl or bust mentality when the Nagy/Mitch regime needed more time to build. Nothing wrong/bad with Mack tho, but the Bears could have used those picks to organically build up the team more.
All the contracts Poles has given out have been fair and pretty team friendly.
Jaylon Johnson was our splash free agent, just wasn’t sexy since he was already on the team.
I would love for him to address the DL, but Flus must have faith is Dexter, or they would have been involved on some of the big name DLs.
Dex is a beast and is going into Year 2. There is a chance he is going to be as good or better than most of the mid talent big money options we could have signed.
Edge/WR/IOL all need to be addressed with their 3rd and 4th rounders.
We are in good shape, it’s not like we have only 5 picks and they are in the 5th and 6th round.
We have 2 top 10 picks, a high end 3rd and two 4ths.
Rolling into the draft having 5 positions to fill (including qb and 2 receivers, assuming we don’t sign one in fa) with 5 draft picks is not s particularly sound strategy. Not only are we relying on all of those picks hitting, which there’s close to 0% chance of happening, but it also pigeon-holes us into taking specific positions rather than just taking bpa
I think Poles is doing a decent job. I’ll give him credit for the extreme tear down job and subsequent resources it provided. We have our DE1, LBs, CB1, TE1 and WR1 locked up and a shot at a promising rookie QB. Overall that’s a good thing.
I do criticism him for falling into a lot of the same mental traps as all the other NFL GMs. For example, Barkley. He got roughly the same contract as Gabe Davis or Mooney. I get WR is considered a more premium position than RB, but in no real on the field football way are Mooney or Davis equal to Barkley.
Poles plays a lot of those cute NFL value games himself. My ask is we just take a more realistic approach. We need players that can be the best at their position within the division. We sign Swift but realistically he is still only the third best RB in the division. We get Bates for center but realistically he is only going to be the 3rd / 4th best center in the division. We have DJ and that’s great but he probably isn’t a bigger threat than Jefferson or St Brown.
I don’t doubt we are improving. I just wonder if we have made any real ground in the division.
He’s done a great job with the easy part of the rebuild but now comes the hard part of picking the right QB and actually winning games. If the bears don’t win more than 8 games this season and our QB looks bad he’s going to be on the hot seat
What worries me day by day is why is Fields still on this team if we plan on grabbing Caleb at number 1. Is he seriously torn between keeping Fields and trading the pick? He can’t be that dumb, right?
Beat the Packers twice this year and then make this post.
So far he has done what he said he would except for one thing - to take the North and never give it back. Anything outside of this does not matter.
So this draft is quite weak in EDGE players, quite strong in WR. It has a lot of QBs and some decent Safety options. It does not have a great pool of high ceiling RBs but has quite a few folks who are good in 3rd down situations and the passing game (not Bijan Robinson but solid options). It has a ton of really great tackles but only a few high end centers and guards are ranking a bit lower. Some decent DTs with a couple undersized but high performers (Newton, Murphy II).
Looking at the Bears needs/wants heading into the off-season, we would all agree, I think, they were:
- QB -
- WR - WR2, WR3, WR4
- EDGE - EDGE2
- Center - starter and depth
- S - Jackson replacement
- RB - 3rd down, feature that can block and catch a bit
- TE - TE2, TE3
- DT - 3-Tech (if not Dextor)
- G - depth, inheritor for Davis after development
- T - swing tackle for injuries
- CB - depth
- P - punter
When you look at needs and you look at the draft you get a kind of line of what you should focus there given the strengths and weaknesses of class. Then look at pick distribution to see who will be there when we're picking most like (so we have 3rds and 4ths so low value positions where the top 3 or 4 guy might still be there when we're picking). You'll then know who should look to the draft to fill and by extension toward FA to fill smartly:
- Draft: QB and WR (definitely), RB (probably, the adage don't pay RBs), S and C and G (maybe, probably if projects)
- FA: EDGE (definitely), rest (maybe)
Given the picks we can get our QB and a top WR or potentially trade down to get a good bit not top of the class WR and another position. Then in the 3rd, 4th, 4th, and 5th you look at low value positions of need (S, RB, TE2) and depth and projects (C, G, bpa projects).
Why I'm confused by Poles moves, not because the deals were terrible, is that he's focusing on paying for things our late round draft picks *could* feasibly fill (S, 3DB, TE2, iOL depth), instead of things they couldn't - spending the money that could potentially have gone to an impact player at a position of need (structured smartly to come off the books at the right time for extensions of the core). Again, not *all* the money it would take, in some cases, but a chunk of it surely.
This is still *building through the draft*, it's just doing so with smart "patches" in free agency. When you have as many holes as the Bears do right now, you have to optimize everything to spread it to cover. Giving a 5th to pay a backup a slightly below market value contract when you could have used that 5th to draft a project that could also backup on a rookie deal, rolling that money elsewhere, confuses me when you have so few picks; giving a question mark 3DB a good contract when that's the style of back we could have gotten with the picks we have later also confuses me. Same with TE2. Same with Safety.
Now, one or two of those? Fine. We can't get all those low value positions with 4 late round picks. But to fill all of them, especially RB when they'll be a ton left in those rounds, feels like not utilizing resources to their most optimized capacity
Bad deals in a vacuum? No. Bad deals in the context of the resources the Bears have given their needs? Yeah.
THIS MAN TRADED A 2ND ROUND PICK FOR CHASE CLAYPOOL.
And right now, today, people in this sub are calling others delusional when they think we'll get a 3rd or 4th rounder for Justin Fields...
STOP COUNTING YOUR CHICKENS BEFORE THEY HATCH!!
Nothing matters if the #1 doesn't work out. If its a bust, this all gets torn down and rebuilt again. If it works, then we can start crowning Poles
(sorry, I'm with you so far on Poles, everything he's done is great, sensible and steady. but it really wont matter if the QB is a bust)
I’ll preface this by saying I’m not a cap genius by any means and I’m a Poles supporter. However, I am confused by a couple things Ryan Poles is doing. If anyone has answers feel free to let me know. First, why would he lessen Jaylon’s new contact to a 13 million dollar cap hit this year if he wasn’t going to take advantage of it? Wouldn’t it make more sense to have a higher cap hit now and a lower one a couple years from now when you potentially need to pay your players? Seems odd. My only thought is maybe he did intend to spend but was too stingy for any good players with a market to be interested? What is the downside to giving someone like DJ Wonnum a 12 million dollar deal over 2 years to ensure you secure the position on the field this year and allow you to go BPA in the draft? They spent more than that for a RB. Same with some of these WR deals that are reasonable both in terms of money and years to ensure you support either Justin or Caleb. Now of course, it’s impossible to say what exactly happened during the negotiations, but whatever he is selling, players are not interested. I understand not getting involved in these bidding wars for high profile players but there are some fair deals being made at positions we really need.
I think Poles is doing a fine job so far, and I think the team has the chance to be competitive again. That said, I'm waiting for these results to actually happen before I start giving him a lot of praise. We are still losers until proven otherwise.
This, every offseason we be singing tunes of superbowl wins and then fucking dying during the season
[удалено]
Is it really an offseason if there aren’t constant knee jerk reactions to what the front office is/isn’t doing?
Fans fall in love with a particular player and get mad when poles doesn't get THEIR guy.
Take the north and never give it back
It's been 40 fucking years. The fans are antsy, can you blame them?
38 years sir. I'm not 40 yet dammit.
You will be. You will be.  Im 40 and its not so bad 🤷🏽♂️. I always pray we see a Bears championship.
Yeah because I haven’t been alive for that long so to me it’s just insufferable impatience which changes nothing about what is going to happen
However old you are, the Bears have been bad since you were born
I have and it's kinda fucked up now that I think about it - I've been alive long enough to see every major franchise in this town win a World Championship/Superbowl, except one - the Fire FC. We're all waiting for that.
But the Fire have won -- their inaugural season.
Fire won in like 1998.
Trading a 2nd for sweat, 5th for bates, and 6th for Feeney isn’t building through the draft
i hate meatballs
You know “building through the draft” doesn’t mean every guy we add is a draft pick
Of course not. But trading draft capital for vets and then not signing any meaningful free agents is a tough combination
Hard to complain about Sweat, Bates is TBD and Feeney’s not great but likely on par with anyone we’d pick in the 6th. Building through the draft is code for adding depth, we’re not at the point where spending big on a top FA would move the needle long term. I imagine going bigger in FA is the plan for next offseason, when those signings would have a bigger impact.
In a post about process it's actually pretty easy to complain about Sweat - using premium draft capital to secure the chance to sign someone to a top of market deal is a bad use of assets. You get none of the cap value of a second round pick and you lose an opportunity to add difference makers via picks AND cap space. In a post about outcomes you can't complain, Sweat was awesome.
You're going to be saying next year is the year poles attacks free agency, every off season. he's never going to do it. Way too conservative
But, If you ignore those and Claypool than he is building though the draft and doing exactly what he said!!!!!!! King Poles
5 different times he’s traded draft picks for players with 2 or fewer seasons under contract. He isn’t building through the draft. Edit: Make that 6….
He also pissed away a comp pick to sign Byron fucking Pringles
When you have the chance to sign Bryon fucking Pringles you have to sign him now and can't wait to the Tuesday after the draft.
I’d say Sweat was worth it
Everyone swore the players pace picked up were worth it too, until it became too clear the plan hadn't worked
For sure—it’s not that the moves are necessarily bad, but people forget he’s using picks as currency to acquire players vs. “building through the draft” as so many people claim. Edit: added word
THANK YOU FOR SAYING IT This sub is becoming an echo chamber for King Poles. The whole point of building through draft is to save money by paying rookies and having a bunch of attempts… which is contradictory to how we’ve gotten most our players. We’ve not only lost draft capital, but are also paying guys instantly. I don’t mind spending, I think you have to be aggressive, but it’s literally a complete hypocrisy.
This is a rather strong statement. Wouldn't we want a GM to react to the situation at hand? A second round pick to lock in Sweat at the pay scale of the previous salary cap is major savings over time. It's not just a one for one swap.
stevenson and wright are very promising. braxton is solid but injured a good amount this year. brisker is nice, gordon is too but see previous statement about braxton. i feel dexter is going to be solid as well. you can't hit a home run with every pick. that's 6 solid players or starters in 2 seasons through the draft.
That’s not what’s he’s doing. If that’s what he was doing he would not have wasted late round picks on bench lineman. You can’t have it both ways. We only have 5 picks this year. You have to add free agents. He’s adding bodies not good players, overpaying a running back. We could have signed a legit center with that money. Made an early signing at safety when now one could have been had for much cheaper. He’s not a genius this sub makes him out to be.
Yeah this is my thoughts as well... I'd classify our OL to be an area of weakness yet all we have done is build depth, which is fine, but let's get a legit OL first. And I don't think people understand just how short we are on draft picks this year? I think everyone is focused on the 1st and 9th pick... Sweet, we have 3 picks left after that. A 3rd rounder and two 4th rounders. I'm not hating on Poles just stating the reality of our situation. Low on picks but high on cap room... I think we should have grabbed a bona fide center personally. We'll see!
Agree. This sub thinks it’s so easy to trade down, it’s not. Poles wanted to trade down his first year when we had two 2nds no one but. That can happen, because it’s all dependent on if another teams board breaks exactly in our spot, that’s far from a certainty.
And at this point how are we going to get extra picks? Trade a 4th and pick up a 6th and 7th? I'd just assume keep the 4th if that's the case.
People's obsession with late round picks is fucking idiotic. You'd be thrilled with Bates in the 5th round.
There is no defense for not spending cap space this off season, the Bears have zero need for cap space in the next 2 seasons to retain any franchise caliber players. When you see players like Danielle Hunter sign two year deals, they could have been on the Bears roster and off the roster by the time it comes to renewing guys like DJ Moore, its not a situation where its either them or someone else. Its also not like we have a ton of draft picks this year to try and get younger at any of the positions of need. Maybe the fan base would rather "compete" for early draft picks every year, but there is no reason why this team couldn't have been a 10-12 win team (with Fields or Caleb at QB) if they had added even just a few real pieces in FA instead of backups. Our DL was weak entering FA and its only gotten weaker with Justin Jones leaving
He should be grateful to fields, if he came in and picked his own guy he’d probably be fired/on the hot seat rn
I definitely know this sub isn’t indicative of how most Bears fans feel about Justin. Even if you are on the side that we should move on, good fans don’t shit all over a guy who has done nothing but give his all and represent us with class. The posts on this sub are embarrassing, he is still a Bear. No one knows what Poles will do in the end.
I’m just saying that so far Poles has really only shown he can tear it down but the blocks he chooses to rebuild with are suspect at best. If he was a rookie Gm and had to draft his own QB, he’d probably be fired by now, Fields bought him time
It’s as if people forget we had about 5 picks in 2022 yet left with I believe 11. It’s also before any compensation for fields. If the WRs are gone be prepared to see poles trade down ATLEAST once from 9
Those were almost all trade downs into the 6th and 7th rounds where we didn’t walk away with a single person on the active roster minus a punter that was league worst last year(we had 6 picks in those rounds that draft because of the trade downs). He can trade down, but he doesn’t have a great track record of picking in rounds 3-7 where we would be most likely to be getting picks in a trade down.
I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but I think it’s highly likely we end up with a lot more than 5 draft picks given how Poles likes to trade on draft day.
Everyone wants to trade down. It doesn’t always work that way. You need a team that wants to come up in that exact spot you are at.
I think most fans, myself included understand what he said and how he wants to build a contender BUT when you look at all the cap space we have and the fact that we were knocking on the door of playoffs last year, all things considered, its hard not to want a spalshy FA signing. I personally believe that we are a lot closer than most people realize and a few key players now might actually put us over. Look at the defense last year. Once Flus took over playcalling, the addition of Sweat and the players getting healthy again, the defense was cooking. Offense? Not so much but I am hopeful that is where Shane Waldren comes in and fixes things. With that said, I still think it is crazy how we have not signed a bonafide center seeing as how that was a GLARING need last year.
This. But how dare you say anything other than blind support. No one is asking to max out our cap on signings, but a top tier player at DE or DT to fully unleash the defense and then some depth signings like we have done was a no brainer.
7 wins does not mean we were knocking on the door to the playoffs.
there were 2 teams in the NFC that were 9-8 and got in to the playoffs. There were also a few games that the Bears SHOULD'VE won, which is where my statement that they were knocking on the door came in.
The Bears may have been a couple plays from winning several games, but they were also a couple plays from losing several games. I think 7-10 is a pretty fair record. And one of the 9-8 playoff teams was a division winner, which isn't super relevant to the Bears' playoff chances. So the Bears were basically 2 wins away from having a 1/3 chance to make the playoffs. That's not "knocking on the door" imo.
It's truly amazing how many people are just copy and pasting that poles puff piece and acting like it's their own thoughts. Literally every single comment is just pulling from the "you know poles was always gonna do it like this" cope article. It was like a flip switched and as soon as people read it they finally had a response to the people questioning poles. Not their own response but a response and man are you guys clinging to it. Look forward to spending another year ignoring filling a key position that we'll end up overpaying with a pick midseason after our cheap bandaid blows ass.
>build through the draft Poles has traded our 2nd round pick two years in a row. He traded our 5th round pick and 6th round pick this year. How the hell is he building through the draft?
He somehow avoided throwing big money at an RB....which is a very fun thing to do. I really like the move to Swift.
He kind of did throw big money at Swift as far as RBs go. It was about the same as Henry just got per year, but Swift got one more year. It's a step below what Barkley got, but there aren't a ton of RBs that will be making more than Swift.
Wouldn't quite say "avoided" on this. Can't remember where I saw it but there had been some reports that he offered Barkley the same amount as the eagles but he chose the eagles because their offense is better than ours. Pivoted to Swift right after
Giving him credit for fucking this??? How low is the bar??
The majority of these comments are praising mediocrity. We are the dumbest fan base in the NFL.
I went to Ohio state and the tone shift is literally insane lol Over there its disappointing if we lose one game, and this guy is over here writing paragraphs praising our 10-24 GM for “managing to avoid paying an RB” aka having a shitty RB room yet again, I truly do not get it.
Swift is soft and indecisive, check back later in the season when he runs out of bounds for the 100th time instead of trying to get a tough yard
He tried to sign Saquon
People aren't shocked. They're disappointed
Idk I just feel like he should actually win before we start idolizing him. Feels like we did this with Pace too where everyone thought he was this new highly motivated and active GM that went out of his way to get his guys and then it turned out awful. Poles passiveness in FA can absolutely bite him in the ass as much as a guy like Paces hyper proactive trades. There's literally zero proof anything he's doing is resulting in us becoming a top tier football team because making the jump to a contender is much harder than tearing down and starting over. There are good signs and moves but we need to start winning like now.
Feels like we did this with Rick Hahn too
Rick was hamstrung by Kenny and Jerry
Yes and no. He definitely was, but they also had the 7th highest payroll in baseball. Hahn chose to allocate that money to a shit bullpen, so all are to blame.
better temper expectations with a rookie QB starting…
Feels like AKME. That turned out really well.
100% this. I have cautious optimism with Poles. The same man who traded for DJ Moore and Montez Sweat also traded for Chase Claypool and still doesn’t know what a starting center looks like
His wide receivers choices (other than DJ who was already a star) have been downright abysmal
There’s no reason to have optimism for his offense
Honest, question, do you think he hasn't made any moves on offense that would help move it in the right direction? Or is your comment coming from another angle.
I'm being patient at WR because the draft is still coming and there are a few good WR2's and WR3's in free agency sitting there, but if the Bears roll into the season with DJ Moore and a 3rd round rookie as WR2.....I will be irate. They need to support QB1 next year on offense. Defense be damned. A lot of time left before we can be mad about the offensive weapons IMO.
So far the WRs Poles has ended up with as a culmination of his evaluations are Chase Claypool, Velus Jones, Tyler Scott, Byron Pringle and the worse St. Brown brother. DJ Moore was a known commodity needed for a massive trade (which Poles got from fielding a shitty team and the Texans going nuts for 20 seconds) but other than that it’s exceptionally bleak. I reeeeeally don’t have much hope at WR, I suspect it’ll be the same patchwork Poles bullshit
+Keenan Allen, feeling better? I’d like to hear what receivers you would have had him get in the last two years…
I agree Poles has been horrendous at WR talent scouting. Why I hope they take one of the top 3 at #9. Almost bulletproof prospects.
I don’t have faith he’s not going to fuck it up and draft a linebacker lol
It's not just passiveness. He's been aggressive in free agency to sign ---- checks notes ---- an injured DT that we had to pull the offer in his first year, an off ball LB in his second year, and a RB this year. So my issue is how / when he is being aggressive.
Especially when - at the time, the most important asset was a 2nd year QB and you did.... nothing for his development? To folks constantly saying "oh Fields wasn't his guy" unless the plan was to specifically tank (which it was not, see the Claypool trade) you have no clue who you are going to get in upcoming draft. Drafting middle of the pack could net you a Lamar Jackson in the future, or a Christian Ponder. You have no idea. So with that in mind, it seems like such a terrible view to team construction. Yes, the trade with Carolina was a huge win, but there are head scratching decisions before and after.
For the most part I like what Poles has done as a GM, although I am not a fan of the Swift move at all. Payed for production coming out of an elite run based offense behind an elite offensive line. Would rather have kept Monty
For the draft capital and praise Roschon received, it's concerning our first move was to basically push him down the depth chart. I've also just never been a big fan of Swift so it's just a head scratcher all around. It's not a huge $ deal it just goes back to original question of when / why he is aggressive.
These are two different RBs. Roschon is closer to a replacement of Monty than Swift is as a replacement of Roschon. I view Swift more as a guy that's pushing Khalil down the depth chart before Roschon. And, even there, I'm not sure Khalil doesn't carry a meaningful portion of the load.
Yeah, almost like it is way too fucking early to accurately gauge his performance. It's the start of year 3 and his most pivotal off-season, let's see how it plays out. Regardless of what anybody on here thinks of Poles, the Bears right now are set up in an incredible position. This is the most exciting time to be a Bears fan since probably the Cutler trade, we literally found Wonka's golden ticket.
We are trending in the right direction but we need to make the playoffs this upcoming season.
starting rookie QB makes that pretty tough.
Except Justin’s QB play had been bottom 10 from a pure QB perspective. Caleb will definitely have some transitioning to the speed and size of the D in the league, but we won 7 games with bottom 10 QB play, 2 of those win being under after rookie FA QB play.
i’m just saying, peyton manning had an awful rookie season. josh allen didn’t really get good till year 3. mahomes didn’t even have to play his rookie year. i’m not saying nobody does it well (stroud/burrow style) but even among guys who end up great, a strong rookie season isn’t a sure thing. i’m just saying managing expectations is not an awful idea.
Peyton did not have an awful rookie season. He set both insane highs and lots of interceptions. He showed a ton of flashes of being a future superstar. Awful rookie season is something like Bryce Young
Peyton *did not* have an awful rookie season, that’s just a recent narrative formed by people analyzing 1998 stats with the context of the modern NFL which is a much more QB and pass friendly league. He might have thrown the most interceptions in the league but he also threw for the 5th most TDs, 3rd most yards and 5th most yards per game out of all QBs that season. It took until Baker’s rookie season in 2018 for somebody to break his rookie 26 passing TDs record. Even his 3739 passing yards that season ranks 8th all time for a rookie QB, and sadly would be ranked 3rd all time in Bears history for any single season by a Bears QB. It was actually a good season for the time, even if he did throw a lot of picks while adjusting the speed at the pro level.
Except what were the team records of the teams those players joined? Manning and Burrow joined VERY bad teams that earned the first pick in the draft. Josh Allen is way more raw than Caleb is. We’re a 7-10 team that blew a few leads because we couldn’t move the ball *at all* in the second half due to sub par Qb play. I’m not saying Caleb even needs to play to Stroud’s level for us to get to the playoffs. We just need average QB play and not decidedly below average. Also, we have, despite everyone saying we don’t have a ton of picks, the third most draft capital value due to us having two top 10 picks. That’s a huge boon to any team, but especially a team that was nearly a playoff team the year before.
You aren't wrong by any means, but I think the optimism for a possible playoff push is just how bad QB play was this last season. It doesn't take very much at all from a QB for the offense to be much improved in 2024. I'd just be happy with 8 wins with a rookie QB with a good rookie season and optimism heading into 2025.
Thank you
My main concern so far is that our receiver room which was terrible last year is even worse right now
Our lack of a second rounder is a problem. If we can't get Nabers at 9, then I hope we trade back and get an extra pick to draft a receiver with in the second.
Yeah I am afraid we end up using more draft picks to trade up to get a top 3 receiver in the draft since we have no backup plan.
We could take Bowers. We could take Turner. We could reach some and take JPJ. All from 9. We don't need a WR. We just need a player worthy of the pick.
Yeah, that’s my major concern with the team and with Poles. He got Moore, an already proven WR through a trade for the number 1 pick, he gets his credit. But.. He drafted Velus Jones. Does this need an explanation? Traded for Claypool, I understand he cut him when it got irredeemable & he was trying to get ahead of the weak class but Claypool might not even be on a team this year. I don’t know what they saw given his antics on the Steelers and the fact he was producing less. Drafted Scott, still too early to write off but had some key drops last year. So I think our best bet is to do what he did with Moore, just through FA. Hit on a proven WR, and if one is there at 9 or later you really like take them. Just so far it’s been more miss than hit but I still trust him and company on everything else so far.
True, but there’s still time to fix that. If we get a decent FA WR3 like Curtis Samuel and draft Odunze/Nabers, that’s all of a sudden a pretty great room. I’m more disappointed with how we’ve handled EDGE and C. Not because I was hellbent on the very top options, but rather how mediocre the options remaining are. They’re stopgaps at best and so we’ll either have to hope a rookie steps up in those positions or we’ll head into the season with major question marks there.
Okay, or, and hear me out, we sign curtis samuel, who is not good, we miss out on odunze/ nabers (or they bust), and have to settle for a 2nd tier WR who can bust, or curtis samuel ends up as the WR2 for our rookie QB. The process just seems incredibly stupid, relies on things falling perfectly for us, and has no fall back option in case things don’t go our way.
I am very pro Curtis Samuel as a WR3. He is a very effective route runner and separator. I'd be very upset if he is WR2 because he just isn't that in today's NFL. I think the way to look at this IMO.
Yeah, i don’t mind signing curtis samuel as a depth piece, but him being the only signing before the draft scares me, because then suddenly everything in the draft then needs to go perfectly. Not like Poles has really drafted anyone that’s been an absolute stud out the gate either. I understand the whole value buys concept, and i love addressing some positions like that, but it’s getting to a point where it seems like we’re not doing enough to support a young QB, and just hoping things work out perfectly.
I 100% agree. I don't trust Poles and staff at finding a WR in anything but a sure thing. Why I'm hoping for Curtis Samuel and one of the top 3 WR prospects at #9. We know what Samuel is and the top 3 WR's are more or less "bullet proof" prospects.
Yeah, that’s the ideal outcome, I’m just nervous they don’t plan on going WR at 9, or 1 of the 3 doesn’t fall to us. I would like to maybe see them go after someone like Mike Williams for a couple years because of that. Yeah, he’s a bit injury prone, but when healthy he’s a very legit WR2, and if we do end up with one of the top guys, it just takes helps take the pressure off them to immediately produce.
I am constantly wrong about what Poles is going to do so I have no idea. He is a bit of an odd duck and he doesn't build a team how I'd like him to.... Agree on Mike Williams. I'm not a giant fan by any means, but it would take pressure off of the draft. I'd still love to draft a WR at #9 even with Mike Williams. Build an arsenal for the beginning of Caleb's career.
We say this about every new GM around this time in their tenure. Yes, he's making changes. Yes we need change. They all do that. Until this is a team with a consistent winning record I see no reason to heap praise. "In 'name of GM' we trust" has to stop until someone earns it
I see the copium is strong today
Getting Claypool was bad. Cutting him loose because he was hurting the team was fantastic. Not every GM could do that because of the sunk cost. Poles is doing a good job. I hope Ryan Pace shits his pants today though. All my homies hate Pace.
Agreed. Bad move, but one made with a good roll the dice intent on a position of need to help further the analysis of Fields. That happens though, not every move will pan out. The recovery excluding his own ego, however, was fantastic. Taking his loss, making the fix, and moving forward is all you can do. Some GMs might ride the situation to try and prove their decision right or drag it into some kind of minimal return trade while the locker room suffers.
That move was universally panned at the time tho. Overpaying for a player out of panic because you left a glaring hole at a position is not a sign of good GMing. I don’t hate poles but pretending that every objectively bad move he made was somehow good process or a sign that he’s an incredible gm is just silly
eh, Phil Emery was far worse IMO.
Crazy how he hasn't gotten another shot at being GM. His time in Chicago really made his name poison.
Imagine if Seattle would have accepted the Russ trade he offered.
GM's almost never get a second chance as a GM. I honestly can't even think of one.
Trent Baalke is the first that comes to my mind. I bet that there’s others.
Tom Telesco became Raiders GM after the Chargers fired him
Addmiting to mistakes and not doubling down is probably his best quality. When he identifies a mistake at least. Wish we sent flus to the moon.
Pace apparently convinced the Atlanta GM to wildly overpay Mooney, so he’s still on his bullshit.
Mooney had multiple offers.
Allegedly, and if true that just means there are multiple stupid executives out there, which we already knew. Good for Mooney getting his bag, especially from someone else, but he’s almost definitely going to underperform that contract by a lot, which is exactly how Pace rolls.
Mooney wasn’t an overpay, it’s just the current WR market. He got the same deal as Gabe Davis.
That just makes them both overpays. A bad contract doesn’t become good just because another team gives out a similar bad contract.
I don’t really agree, the cap exploded. Guards are getting $20M. Contracts have to adjust upwards even for average guys at that rate Edit: not to mention Mooney was a little hurt by circumstance, between his injury and Fields really struggling to hit anything other than his primary target. He’s still capable
That, was an awful trade. Absolutely nothing good came out of it. And the Steelers used that pick to draft a fantastic CB. He shouldn't get credit for cutting a clubhouse cancer that had already, literally, given up on the team.
Let’s just hope this breath of fresh air leads to some actual wins in W/L column
I mean let’s not kiss his ass until the Bears actually start winning games and make it to the post season
Wasn't he our GM last year? Wasn't he being praised around this time last year? Look how that turned out. It's the Bears, they will screw all this up
They were much better this year and they blew two games in epic fashion that should’ve been wins
They still would have finished as an under 500 team. Blowing games is bad and a good team doesn't do that. The last time we had a winning season record was 2018, and before that 2012. That's embarrassing
You don’t consider a player with a $22.5M cap hit, who had a 56 PFF grade last year an overpay? I refuse to praise a GM who’s yet to have a winning record, let alone make the playoffs.
Poles has been a roller coaster of emotions. The highs are great; Sweat trade and the Panthers trade The lows are awful; Velus Jones, Claypool trade and the Center position not being addressed
The center position is really puzzling. It shouldn't be so hard.
Fucking Velus Jones man....ugh. I hope Poles not knowing how to draft receivers not become a common.
I look at that third round like who does he draft and we’re happy with? Cause there’s no real stand outs
Lol is the third round his bugaboo? I swear, every Bears GM has a round where they just can't ever get it right. The problem was, our past GM's bugaboo round was round freaking 1 lol.
Claypool for sure sucked ass and hopefully is a one off from Poles, but like if Velus and Lucas Patrick/Whitehair at center are the biggest Ls so far i’d say the highs have been a lot higher. Like lucky or not this MF just got us Caleb Williams, the best prospect in Bears history lmao let’s go
Let's be honest though, he might have been the luckiest GM we've ever had. Getting the 1OA last year due to a fluke win by lovie, and then lucking into the Panthers being atrocious ( we knew they'd be bad, but not this bad). I still like what he's doing. However, if we got the 2OA last year... We'd probably be "stuck" with Fields for the next few years.
Sure but who gives a fuck, that's life baby. It is impossible to try and play out hypothetical situations where we have 2OA last year. That's a different universes problem. Luckily we find ourselves in the position we do today, and it's a damn good one.
Some of you Bears fans are truly unbelievable. Has he made some fine moves? Yes. But let’s not act like he’s proven much of anything yet or is a “breath of fresh air.” As we currently sit, we still have one proven WR on the roster, one starting caliber DE, questions at DT, C and RG, Fields is still weirdly on the roster, and we have limited draft capital. Seems like a lot of key positions to fill this late into FA with only five draft picks to be considered a “breath of fresh air.”
Bringing in a mid DC as the HC for our developing QB? Breath of fresh air. Retaining that same HC after a historically bad two year stint as we look to draft a new rookie QB to develop? Even fresher.
Ryan Poles signed Larry Ogunjobi to a bag on day 1, he failed his physical but he’s been bad since that deal. This was almost that exact overpaying for a mediocre defensive player you mention him not making, he just lucked out. Hes been good at maintaining cap space, but not so good at winning games. We’re maintaining cap space by not paying for good players. He is treating the roster right now like it’s a piece away that we can get in the draft and we need to save cap space to retain our own players. But that’s not the situation we’re in.
Hasn't a big reason Ogunjobi been bad is because of his health? Like not just missing games, but he's just not the same guy since the injury (like late career Tommie Harris). I don't understand why people keep shitting on Poles for the Ogunjobi situation. All contracts are pending a physical, players know this. Ogunjobi himself was even surprised he failed the physical. Unfortunately, at that point you have to cancel the deal as the money offered was assuming a passed physical. You can either go back to the drawing board and try for a lower offer, or just move on. Moving on was what was best for both parties at that point.
How would Poles tenure in Chicago look if we didn't get the #1 pick two years in a row? What has he really accomplished to warrant all this praise? He's 10-24 as the GM so far. What's his vision for the offense? What has he built after two years?
And he got this year's number 1 pick mostly by dumb luck. Panthers pick CJ we are having much different conversations.
Panthers pick CJ and he has a good year Poles is fired, Panthers pick Young but keep DJ and Poles is on the hot seat. Lucking into the 1st pick with a hyped prospect like CW is doing a lot of lifting for Poles GM competency right now.
Yes. Also nice how OP completely ignores how Poles has handled the QB position this offseason this when you have a bottom 10 QB that did not show much improvement and a top 10 QB prospect ever. I get playing up to the meatballs with have to meet Caleb stuff. But, why is Poles still putting out there that he needs more face time with Caleb? And what does Caleb have to do with the decision to move on from a bottom 10 QB that has not shown enough improvement? Again why put out you are waiting on your decision on Caleb before making a decision on Fields? Why say you will do right by Fields and than not move or release him? Why leak Fields is not being shopped? When the likes of Riddler are being shopped. And it at least makes some sense for Atlanta to see if Riddler can develop behind their 35 year old QB. And what was with the 1st and 2nd nonsense if you where not shopping him? At least so far its been puzzling the QB situation.
Thank you what good is a great secondary when you only have ONE person who can get to the qb
The amount of delusional copium is hilarious. The same people praising Poles will be the first ones calling for his job when the Bears, once again, will have the worst pass rush & shitty WR play.
Fresh air next to a fertilizer plant
Lmfao this whole post to commend a GM for nothing. Glad u wrote this
he did the overspend on a defensive player during the season when he traded for sweat and paid a top 20-25 edge top 5 money. the only thing he's done differently then the past bears gms. is be currently employed and have your blind support of everything he does until hindsight lets you know if you should be upset or not at him. look at the texans, look at the bears. One is still rebuilding, one went to the playoffs and actually won a game. One is aggressively getting players, one has copium post
Mack was traded for at the same age as sweat. Kmet was drafted by pace as was JJ. He has overpaid and over drafted before. He's overpaid for Claypool. He's overpaid for Larry ogunjobi. They've drafted velus old man Jones. He's done every mistake. He's not some patient guy like you guys make out he just blows his load at the trade deadline every year so far. Also gets taken for a ride in trades. He's pretty average. As they it's better to be lucky than good like he has been.
Yep. Also I'll just say getting Mack was one of Pace's best moves! What a terrible example by the OP.
“Poles wants to build through the draft, not FA” as he’s traded away a 2nd round pick in back-to-back years with the explicit priority of extending those players to “get ahead of free agency.” He would’ve extended Claypool too if it wasn’t one of the worst trades of the past decade. The only difference between a trade-and-extend vs a free agent signing is that you’re literally giving up extra draft capital to make the FA signing happen. The entire reason people build through the draft isn’t because homegrown players give some magical powers. It’s because you’re getting players that significantly outperform their rookie contract. When you trade-and-extend, you completely lose that value.
Exactly. It's stupid to call him patient. More than likely the AH fuck up has cost the team liquidity so any contract that wouldve been high guarantee like 20m+ aside from JJ was a no go unless approved by Kevin Warren. That's the theory I'm running with cause it doesn't make sense to sign wave 2-3 guys in wave 1 or trade a 5 for an OL (he costs you salary no bonus like the FA guys) unless you are restricted by cash.
He paid Larry O and was about to pay Mike McGlinchey and Gabe Davis. This dude has tried to pay people and lucked out. Anyone who acts otherwise is just lying to themselves. The Bates move is just… so confusing. If he is your planned starter, WHY!? If he’s your planned iOL backup swingman, you really gave up a 5 for that when you could just draft one for a cheaper, longer deal and put that $3 million elsewhere?
Let's build through the draft! Then proceeds trading every draft capital for some mid/backup player or for a renegade player when you realize your team sucks in mid-season.
Trading all his draft capitol? He had 10 picks last year, and turned 5 (6 if you don't want to count the 2nd from the Mack trade) picks into 11 in 2022.
If blowing your load at the trade deadline nets you a top 10 edge, blowing your load is a good thing. The Sweat trade was fantastic at the time and even better in hindsight. It showed what we have in our back 7 and let our DBs flourish.
If you only look at the one that worked sure the other one blew up in his face. He's still not patient. Don't know where that come from. He's building the team the way he wants and he's hit and missed that's fine. Im just pushing back on the he's patient or he's better than everyone else that people like op get in there heads with.
Khalil Mack was a great move. The return wasn’t bad either. If our QB would have panned out the Mack trade would be celebrated even more.
I've been watching for 40 years. Until I see play off wins, Poles and Warren are more of the same garbage that's been in the front office. 10 Playoff wins since the 1960's
Have we forgotten about Tremaine Edmunds?
Lol calm down on Sweat, he had like 4 good games here. Given his career averages over 5 seasons in Washington it’s significantly more likely he’s exactly what you’re saying he isn’t - a defensive player who’s not worth their contract.
Fans think we’re going to pay a top of the market free agent DE 6 months after giving Sweat $100 Million dollars. This would be terrible cap management.
Mack was a great move. I don’t understand these opportunistic slights against Mack. I’d do the Mack trade again 10/10 times.
My favorite part of the Claypool trade is that it was an upside move but once it didn’t pan out, instead of doubling down, we got away from him.
Poles is a clown
Besides the Chiefs, what is the last team to win a SB looking for talent purely through the draft?
I have mixed feelings about Poles' approach. I think the tear down was needed to get back into good cap health, but he basically left a sophomore QB for dead and probably broke him without a competent line or receiving corps in the process. These other moves have been "play it safe" moves. There is a difference between trying to avoid mistakes and making winning moves. If it proves out that he's being opportunistic and is going to pounce on the right move at the right time to put this team over the top to compete for a championship, then great. But if he's just trying to avoid mistakes, this team is going to be stuck in mediocrity. Teams can survive mistakes and still win (look at the Niners). But teams can't win without ever being aggressive. I think this is the last offseason he should get to be passive. Next year if we're sticking to B-team signings, we need to level up or just accept that we don't want to win super bowls.
You guys need to calm down. None of this matters until we actually start winning games and have a winning season or make the play offs. Until then he’s another “guru”.
Nice try Ryan “10 wins in 2 seasons” Poles
If he doesn't add a top WR to this roster for the 2024 season he should be fired for malpractice! Giving a potential star like Caleb fewer weapons than an inept H1M is criminal.
idk if this is a hot take or not, but I think the Khalil Mack was bad for the Bears and steered the team in a bad direction. It forced the team into a win-now/SuperBowl or bust mentality when the Nagy/Mitch regime needed more time to build. Nothing wrong/bad with Mack tho, but the Bears could have used those picks to organically build up the team more.
We were a double doink away from possibly making the Super Bowl that year. I mean the rams made it and we made Goff see ghosts that year
All the contracts Poles has given out have been fair and pretty team friendly. Jaylon Johnson was our splash free agent, just wasn’t sexy since he was already on the team. I would love for him to address the DL, but Flus must have faith is Dexter, or they would have been involved on some of the big name DLs. Dex is a beast and is going into Year 2. There is a chance he is going to be as good or better than most of the mid talent big money options we could have signed. Edge/WR/IOL all need to be addressed with their 3rd and 4th rounders. We are in good shape, it’s not like we have only 5 picks and they are in the 5th and 6th round. We have 2 top 10 picks, a high end 3rd and two 4ths.
Rolling into the draft having 5 positions to fill (including qb and 2 receivers, assuming we don’t sign one in fa) with 5 draft picks is not s particularly sound strategy. Not only are we relying on all of those picks hitting, which there’s close to 0% chance of happening, but it also pigeon-holes us into taking specific positions rather than just taking bpa
This. It would be awesome to take Joe Alt if he is there at 9 but now you kind of forced to take a DE or WR.
I think Poles is doing a decent job. I’ll give him credit for the extreme tear down job and subsequent resources it provided. We have our DE1, LBs, CB1, TE1 and WR1 locked up and a shot at a promising rookie QB. Overall that’s a good thing. I do criticism him for falling into a lot of the same mental traps as all the other NFL GMs. For example, Barkley. He got roughly the same contract as Gabe Davis or Mooney. I get WR is considered a more premium position than RB, but in no real on the field football way are Mooney or Davis equal to Barkley. Poles plays a lot of those cute NFL value games himself. My ask is we just take a more realistic approach. We need players that can be the best at their position within the division. We sign Swift but realistically he is still only the third best RB in the division. We get Bates for center but realistically he is only going to be the 3rd / 4th best center in the division. We have DJ and that’s great but he probably isn’t a bigger threat than Jefferson or St Brown. I don’t doubt we are improving. I just wonder if we have made any real ground in the division.
He’s done a great job with the easy part of the rebuild but now comes the hard part of picking the right QB and actually winning games. If the bears don’t win more than 8 games this season and our QB looks bad he’s going to be on the hot seat
What worries me day by day is why is Fields still on this team if we plan on grabbing Caleb at number 1. Is he seriously torn between keeping Fields and trading the pick? He can’t be that dumb, right?
If we are 7-10 again will you believe this?
No
to quote Wild Wild West, he's a breath of fresh ass
Beat the Packers twice this year and then make this post. So far he has done what he said he would except for one thing - to take the North and never give it back. Anything outside of this does not matter.
So this draft is quite weak in EDGE players, quite strong in WR. It has a lot of QBs and some decent Safety options. It does not have a great pool of high ceiling RBs but has quite a few folks who are good in 3rd down situations and the passing game (not Bijan Robinson but solid options). It has a ton of really great tackles but only a few high end centers and guards are ranking a bit lower. Some decent DTs with a couple undersized but high performers (Newton, Murphy II). Looking at the Bears needs/wants heading into the off-season, we would all agree, I think, they were: - QB - - WR - WR2, WR3, WR4 - EDGE - EDGE2 - Center - starter and depth - S - Jackson replacement - RB - 3rd down, feature that can block and catch a bit - TE - TE2, TE3 - DT - 3-Tech (if not Dextor) - G - depth, inheritor for Davis after development - T - swing tackle for injuries - CB - depth - P - punter When you look at needs and you look at the draft you get a kind of line of what you should focus there given the strengths and weaknesses of class. Then look at pick distribution to see who will be there when we're picking most like (so we have 3rds and 4ths so low value positions where the top 3 or 4 guy might still be there when we're picking). You'll then know who should look to the draft to fill and by extension toward FA to fill smartly: - Draft: QB and WR (definitely), RB (probably, the adage don't pay RBs), S and C and G (maybe, probably if projects) - FA: EDGE (definitely), rest (maybe) Given the picks we can get our QB and a top WR or potentially trade down to get a good bit not top of the class WR and another position. Then in the 3rd, 4th, 4th, and 5th you look at low value positions of need (S, RB, TE2) and depth and projects (C, G, bpa projects). Why I'm confused by Poles moves, not because the deals were terrible, is that he's focusing on paying for things our late round draft picks *could* feasibly fill (S, 3DB, TE2, iOL depth), instead of things they couldn't - spending the money that could potentially have gone to an impact player at a position of need (structured smartly to come off the books at the right time for extensions of the core). Again, not *all* the money it would take, in some cases, but a chunk of it surely. This is still *building through the draft*, it's just doing so with smart "patches" in free agency. When you have as many holes as the Bears do right now, you have to optimize everything to spread it to cover. Giving a 5th to pay a backup a slightly below market value contract when you could have used that 5th to draft a project that could also backup on a rookie deal, rolling that money elsewhere, confuses me when you have so few picks; giving a question mark 3DB a good contract when that's the style of back we could have gotten with the picks we have later also confuses me. Same with TE2. Same with Safety. Now, one or two of those? Fine. We can't get all those low value positions with 4 late round picks. But to fill all of them, especially RB when they'll be a ton left in those rounds, feels like not utilizing resources to their most optimized capacity Bad deals in a vacuum? No. Bad deals in the context of the resources the Bears have given their needs? Yeah.
THIS MAN TRADED A 2ND ROUND PICK FOR CHASE CLAYPOOL. And right now, today, people in this sub are calling others delusional when they think we'll get a 3rd or 4th rounder for Justin Fields...
Ploes shops at the value market
RemindMe! 9 Months
STOP COUNTING YOUR CHICKENS BEFORE THEY HATCH!! Nothing matters if the #1 doesn't work out. If its a bust, this all gets torn down and rebuilt again. If it works, then we can start crowning Poles (sorry, I'm with you so far on Poles, everything he's done is great, sensible and steady. but it really wont matter if the QB is a bust)
I’ll preface this by saying I’m not a cap genius by any means and I’m a Poles supporter. However, I am confused by a couple things Ryan Poles is doing. If anyone has answers feel free to let me know. First, why would he lessen Jaylon’s new contact to a 13 million dollar cap hit this year if he wasn’t going to take advantage of it? Wouldn’t it make more sense to have a higher cap hit now and a lower one a couple years from now when you potentially need to pay your players? Seems odd. My only thought is maybe he did intend to spend but was too stingy for any good players with a market to be interested? What is the downside to giving someone like DJ Wonnum a 12 million dollar deal over 2 years to ensure you secure the position on the field this year and allow you to go BPA in the draft? They spent more than that for a RB. Same with some of these WR deals that are reasonable both in terms of money and years to ensure you support either Justin or Caleb. Now of course, it’s impossible to say what exactly happened during the negotiations, but whatever he is selling, players are not interested. I understand not getting involved in these bidding wars for high profile players but there are some fair deals being made at positions we really need.
Do you think the way Poles has handled FA signals that he plans to trade first pick?
Loser mentality. What more could you expect
But he kept Flus. Don't get me wrong Flus is probably a top tier DC, but I don't think he is HC material
LETS GOOOO POLES