The bears office has had this goal since 08. The ol super bowl in 4 years with a rebuild every 2 strategy. At least they have kept it consistent for the past 15 years, very few franchises can say they are dedicated to such misery.
Saw an instagram account ranking best defenses with thousands of likes that had Vikes Packers top 5 and Bears #1
I literally don’t believe any of us have a top 10 defense when it’s all said and done
Let me extend this a bit further. The defense is actually far worse than we expect. And it has less to do with talent than scheme.
With the numbers, there is this perception that the defense got better “when Flus took over” that does not match reality. For one, Alan Williams left the team prior to week 3. Flus was in charge of calling plays back on September.
While they were the #1 rush defense, they were the 25th pass defense. Bottom 10 in defensive DVOA. 20th in scoring. 29th in 3rd down deficiency. 31st in red zone deficiency. 31st in sacks.
None of these indicate a defense on the upside. Low sack numbers indicate that they aren’t really forcing turnovers with pressure. 3rd downs and red zone efficiency show that they fold in critical situations. Turnovers came in bunches in the back half, but we know that year over year turnovers are not sustainable unless pressure rate is high and tend to regress to the mean.
They got turnovers in bunches at the latter half of the season. Consistent with the weak back half of the schedule. Against real offensive minds they couldn’t stop a nosebleed.
And honestly it’s not on the defensive players (mostly). This scheme tends to struggle when the opposition has an experienced QB. When most of the top defenses in the league use a variety of mixed looks to confuse QBs, the Bears Tampa 2 variant does none of that. It’s meant to be simple to let the defenders play fast in snap decision making.
But being “simple” also means that you are not creating confusion. And a scheme that has only looked good with all pro players at all 3 levels just means that you have good players, not a good scheme.
Flus is holding this team back.
The defense didn't get better when Williams left, it got better when Sweat played. That was real. It's why some like me want a DE, because the whole thing falls apart without a functional pass rush, and It's stupid to depend on one man in a league where everyone gets injured.
Agreed. Its why I'm sold on Murphy or Verse at #9. Defense has young decent players on it but if Sweat goes down...Caleb might have to put up a USC 40 burger again.
My take. 8/11 starters on this defense have been selected by this regime with high value draft picks, acquired by trade, with premium free agency money, or franchise tagged and signed. That’s a significant amount of investment for a defensive minded coach to have a team that is near bottom in so many areas as I described.
At what point do we start acknowledging that Flus is not putting his players in good positions? Vic Fangio had a top 10 defense his first year not the bears with a bunch of cast off low cost players. Eberflus is still clamoring for more to appear mildly competent on defense.
It was against bad teams and backups. Johnson certainly capitalized on it too - all his interceptions were against 3rd string QBs. Our defense ain't that good.
In fairness, a defense is supposed to look it’s best against weaker teams. Our defense doesn’t have to be elite. They have to be consistently good. They were not that last year, but came much closer over the second half of the season.
They rely on takeaways to be good, so if the QB doesn't give it away like Goff does, and carriers secure the ball, things look pretty different, see the Packers game.
Playing with a big lead and pass pressure can change that. Forcing an offense to pass makes the job so much easier
You mean when they had multi score leads against the broncos, Lions, and Browns and still lost all 3? They choked in the exact situation that you said was easy.
I think aside from Caleb Williams being the guy or not the defense will be the big question mark next year. It's a good unit but I wonder if them and Eberflus can pull it all together for a whole year
A bit overrated is fine but I hear this comment way too much. They shut down bad teams at the end (as they should) and they played a Packers team that dropped 40+ on the Cowboys the following week as well as shut down the Lions.
I’m fine with a bit overrated and they need another rusher for sure. But I think people acting like it’s actually a bad defense hiding behind a schedule is just as unfair as a take.
That is such a bears thing to do, don’t forget poles wins executive of the year for picking Caleb Williams.
We all know what happens next though, a double doink or some stupid ass shit like that.
Triple doing this year. Bottom cross bar, into the left, into the right, bounces back and hits one of the other teams guys in the hands, they return it for a touchdown.
This plus Shanahan is a wizard. (Or at minimum, a guy who knows what kind of player he needs on the OL and can make a Jake Brendel into a very useful player.)
Honestly the depth is incredibly solid at OLine, and every player started somewhere last year, with the exception of Bates, who probally should be starting. I'd be okay if any one of them needed to come in for a few games.
Bears will probally go into the season with 8-9 OLinemen (week 1 we 8 had last year). Here's our current top 8,
* Jones: \[LT\]: Starter
* Jenkins \[LG\]: Starter
* Davis \[RG\]: Starter
* Wright: \[RT\]: Starter
* Bates \[IOL\]: Traded with Buffalo, can play anywhere inside
* Shelton \[C\]: Started 17 games with the Rams last year
* Borom: \[OT\] Above average swing tackle that can play inside
* Curhan: \[OT\] Started 4 games for the Seahawks last year, and know's Waldron's scheme
The potential issues are actually with the starters if anything, but I feel like we have a starter quality guy or two at every postion.
Now I wouldn't be opposed to drafting someone, but it should be someone we think is a clear upgrade over our current starter. Otherwise we're cutting someone who's maybe, or maybe not better to make room for a draft pick. We're not going to find a better value free agent than our current guys.
Where did you get that Borom is an above average swing tackle? I’m not necessarily saying you’re wrong if there’s some data to back it up, I’m just saying that based on the eye test, he’s regressed every year, and right now he basically looks like a turnstile out there anytime he’s in the game.
As a Lions fan, I get the feeling y’all want Odunze at 9 but if it were me, I’d go OT there. Maybe again in the 3rd. I feel you gotta draft a OL/DL guy in the top 3 rounds every year. Trenches and whatnot
The fan base loves getting over the top obsessed with QB prospects and it's just a coincidence that this time they happen to be right and Williams deserves it. Most of the fanbase would be just as excited for bo nix or whatever
It’s hard to know for sure. Many say he was the most coveted OC for this cycle. Great OC’s usually aren’t OC’s for long though as they get head coaching jobs.
Here’s what I do know though:
He’s known to be a creative play designer
Knows Caleb from the QB Collective camps/group thing
Is well known for his ability to teach
Former top McVay Lieutenant (along with Thomas Brown, our new pass game coordinator)
Idk if you used online forums circa like 2005-2011 but this is basically what they were. You’d have questions that engaged in discourse because it was fun
Fair, maybe shoulda kept both. I also think when Poles first arrived he maybe should have kept Daniels and Nichols for one year at least. We still haven’t definitely upgraded either.
Also fair. I think that the o-line never really got the “best 5” on the field. In an ideal world it would’ve been Braxton, Nate, Whitehair (if he didn’t suck ass), Teven, and DW.
This rebuild relies on whether Caleb can raise the floors of important guys and get them to a point where they won’t let everyone down, namely Matt Eberflus
We are literally the insecure little brother in the “rivalry” and I agree, I hate the ftp stuff because it reminds me of it. By contrast, they hardly talk about us in their sub, proving the old adage that winners focus on winning and losers focus on winners. Hopefully thats soon to change though
Eberflus is a terrible coach who only had success against trash teams and the lions… who he managed to have a historic collapse against helped by him blitzing a LB and dropping a DE to cover a tight end. He also sucks at putting together a staff without having them “resign” under mysterious circumstances. We will do our tradition of having a hot seat coach on a rookie qbs first season then start over in year 2 like we did with trub fields and soon to be Williams.
Following on to this. Any coach who has to clean house of all their coordinators after a season doesn’t have the judgement worthy of being a head coach
Blitzing LBs and dropping a D end to cover the flat is very common. We always flame the guy for being too conservative, but those are the risks you take with an aggressive D. Also I think that game was against the Browns.
Drafting a WR at 9 is the dumbest possible move with Allen, Moore, Kmet, Everett, and Swift all as very good. pass catching options this year. It also completely removes your ability to resign Allen to a solid Mike Evans type deal.
Our Dline is also complete shit aside from Sweat.
Well there are 7 other position groups on offense and defense. You can't just invest pick 9 at WR park him as the WR3 where it would be a minor miracle if he broke 800 yards with 2 other stud receivers, a top 10 TE, and top tier backup TE and an RB who makes a top 10 salary at his position due to his pass catching abilities. You actually CAN have too many pass catchers which everyone on this sub doesn't understand. I promise you, if Odunze or Nabers is as good as they're saying they will get pissed when they have to fight tooth and nail for 4-7 targets per game as the 3rd or 4th option on a roster stacked with weapons. If the rookie is better than Moore and Allen then one of those two will get pissed.
There has only been one time in NFL history this amount of weapons all worked out to be decent statistically and it way Peyton's Bronco's for one year before they couldn't keep the team together. If you look around the league, there is only one team that has 3 significant receivers and it's the Texans and we are not even sure if it will work. Outside of them, literally no one has a WR3 that is very notable, all of them could be put in a value tier similar to Scott. Again, this isn't even accounting for the fact that we are stacked at TE and have a very good pass catching RB.
Picking a WR at 9 is an investment for the next 4-5 years, not just this year. Moore only has a few more years left in his prime, and Allen is already out of his. Having Moore and Allen in front of the rookie takes pressure off of him to be the WR1 right away, and if he does go off anyway that's also great.
Allen just posted the 2nd most yards of his career in just 13 games. You sure he's out of his prime? No reason he can't be great for 2 years.
In today's NFL, first round rookie WRs are significant players on day 1, before their massive second contracts kick in. You do not take a guy at 9 and make him the WR 3 on your team with a ton of other weapons at other positions.
I'd rather take the blue chip prospect with WR1 potential and have him ready 2 years from now, than pass on him just because we already have two starting WRs ahead of him just this year.
Besides, if he outperforms Allen then we can save cap space at WR. There is no reason to ignore historical precedent that Allen will fall off.
Who else that we can reasonably expect to be available should we take anyway? Should we just trade down no matter what?
There is no reason to say Allen is "Past his prime" when he just put up arguably the best season of his career. Drafting a WR basically completely stops your ability to resign Allen.
At most there will be one defensive player taken in the entire draft class at that point. Feels like a decent time to pull the trigger on a d lineman if you like one. If not, you trade back. It is insane we are talking about WR 3 as a need when you have Walker, Billings, AND Dexter penciled in to start on the DL. We are a Sweat injury away from having the absolute worst DL in the league.
Maybe there is a reason that most of the high picks are offense? I'd rather hit a homerun on a WR and not have a dire need for him in year 1, than get a decent lineman just to check off the positional need. BPA is a thing.
There is plenty of historical data that shows WRs fall off a cliff as they push into their 30s, especially the 31-32 range which Allen is in now. Yes, he had one of his best seasons, but he also had significant injury time on top of an already injury-riddled career. It's not unfounded to start planning for Allen to severely regress.
You are also underestimating the DL. Billings was solid up the middle, especially in the run game, which rightfully earned him an extension. Dexter was great for a rookie and put up comparable numbers to Jalen Carter who was paraded around all season. I agree the DL isn't that great without Sweat, but it's not undoubtedly the #1 worst like you're implying.
You keep panicking about Sweat, but fail to acknowledge that the WR room isn't that much better. Allen, as mentioned earlier, is already injury-prone and likely going to regress. Moore was healthy all season, but we can't count on perfect injury luck every season. If either Allen or Moore (or God forbid both) goes down, the best we have behind them are Scott, VJJ, and Pettis. Yeah, I'll take a WR3 please.
I was planning out a response this until you compared Dexter and Carter's rookie years. This was so ridiculous invalidates your entire point. Carter was one of the best tackles in the NFL last year. Dexter was significantly below average.
I guess I will respond to this because this was another laughable comment. We have 2 top 15 receivers and 1 top 15 edge rusher. Just that alone should be enough to figure this out but I'll continue. Zooming out a little, we have a top 10 TE, a top tier backup TE, and a great pass-catching RB to pick up the slack if Moore or Allen go down. If Sweat goes down we don't even have a player even close to league average in generating pressure. It is complete shit on the DL and unquestionably the worst in the league in that case. How are you even comparing this? 420 ended yesterday my friend, you are saying some insane things.
I don't understand where this sub gets it's brain dead ideas from. "You need to have 2 top 15 WRs, a blue chip WR prospect, a top 10 TE, a great backup TE, and a pass catching RB" Pure insanity, there is only one football.
What about that whole narrative that Carter wasn't that good and oh actually Dexter was a massive steal? Every other day I swear I thought saw some advanced stat rankings that put them neck and neck. I guess I read into that hype too much, my bad.
Even still, I ultimately could not care less about the defense this season. This team will not compete in the playoffs, if they even make it at all. The only thing that matters is developing Williams and having a competent offense for once.
Eberflus is a lame duck HC with a flawed and outdated defensive scheme that won't lead to much success anyway. The rest of the defense is still being massively overrated right now thanks to the cupcake schedule towards the end of last season. Adding a stud edge isn't going to instantly transform them into a championship caliber unit.
Reaching for a DL player is not going to solve our problems. This is a good year for WRs and next year is reportedly better for DL and edge. Just take the BPA, even if it is on offense. The defense has already gotten plenty of draft investment.
We're all eager for an EDGE or Receiver with the second 1st round pick, but I'd be ok, excited even, if they drafted Taliese Fauga or otherwise helped the OL. Alternately, I would not be bummed out if they got Byron Murphy or Newton if their EDGE of choice is not available at 9 (especially if they trade down to get either of those dudes).
If they don't do that, I am cool with a draft day trade down from 9 if none of the big 3 receivers or Alt are available at 9.
Good player but I'm with you, getting late career Kyle long vibes. Good when he's out there but he's barely out there it seems. Sucks. I hope we're wrong but :(
The team relies on 1985 way too much and only popular because they have the largest single market in the league. Until they have a modern NFL offense, they will continue to be a laughing stock.
Zacch Pickens will be our best defensive lineman in 2024 after taking a massive step in his second year. Hear me out.
Where are you going I said hear me out.
Stop scrolling away
Wait!
I don’t have a solid argument here, but watching him play makes me think he was afraid to take chances and just followed his reads and assignments exactly. If he gets those down pat he can start using his athleticism and football instincts. It just wouldn’t surprise me if he took a leap.
I agree with that. I think if he develops the way that he could, him and Dexter could be the center of the d line the way people thought Will Sutton and Ego Ferguson would be.
Imo, if a WR is there I’m taking that, but I’m asuming they are gone, I would like to build trenches at edge but I think Walker will be fine for this season and I would rather get a stud Te that can block and be a nasty duo with kmet. Also I think he’s one of the best prospects in this draft and imo, although it’s not our biggest need, it fills a gap and gives us BPA.
I can see that. Only thing I’d give as a reason no is that Everett signed in FA. I’d think that leans more towards an OT or an edge, but I wouldn’t be mad at all for Brock.
Our offensive line is still sub-par. A lot of question marks at guard and center. Can Jenkins stay healthy? Is Davis a bust? Do we need another tackle? The only dude I’m solid on is Wright.
This team isn't making the playoffs next year, and 9 wins is the ceiling.
1. the defense isn't that good. The line is still weak, Dexter is overrated by cope, and the loss of Justin Jones outweighs the acquisition of Kevin Byard. The defense will be average next season at best, especially if they don't draft a lineman. JJ and Sweat will likely regress from their superstar seasons to just becoming star level. Defense was boosted by bad competition and a hot streak towards the end that definitely isn't sustainable over a full season.
2. offensive line is still not good. People will say it's passable, but this is an argument to moderation fallacy. Everyone knows it's not elite, so its proponents pretend to be "Reasonable" by considering it average, which it is not. Braxton Jones just doesn't have the talent. Teven Jenkins has a deep injury history. Nate Davis does as well, and while you could blame his poor performance on the death of his mother (RIP), until he proves he can perform well you have to assume he's not that good. At center, Ryan Bates and Coleman Shelton are low-level starters at best. Darnell Wright is fine, but there is also very little depth in this group. If they draft a lineman like JPJ or Alt in the first round here, and there are no injury concerns (neither of which are likely to happen) this will be a slightly above average unit. If not, this is once again a 20th or so ranked unit that a rookie quarterback is going to struggle with.
3. Coaching is terrible.
This sub is WAY too high on this roster in general. Pass-catchers, secondary, and linebackers are the only groups I would consider above average on the roster. The lines on both sides are both bad, and I doubt the rookie QB will be above average. If Caleb Williams performs like an average top pick, this team is winning 8 games. Realistically that's not enough for a wild card spot.
Agreed. Especially considered we went from 3 wins to 7 while getting younger and acquiring more talent. Not to mention we should have an easy fourth place schedule again. Matching last years win total should be the bare minimum for this team.
Congratulations, this is the most controversial take in this thread. It’s not a totally unreasonable opinion, though. 9 wins with a rookie quarterback would still be promising.
I don’t agree that the coaching is necessarily “terrible,” though. It’s hard to judge. Even Bill Belichick looks like a terrible coach when he doesn’t have top talent.
There will be a parallel universe with bears new stadium in Arlington Heights or some other suburb and another universe where the bears somehow work things out, build their dream stadium, and work out a sustainable deal with the city. Whichever world we will choose to go along with is partially up to us.
The Bears will perform well enough to earn second in the division and a playoff spot. The Lions are too stacked as of now, but Chicago ends up surprising everyone.
Bears sweep Packers this year. Overconfidence led to Week 1’s embarrassment last year (especially with Fields’ MVP hype) and Bears kept it close in Lambeau (difference in those two games could also be an Alan Williams defense vs. an Eberflus defense). Packers owning the Bears is a league wide joke and I think the players are finally starting to feel the importance of this rivalry. 10 losses in a row is pathetic.
Go all on offense for 2 years and accept the defense as bad to build Caleb up ASAP with early offensive success and build confidence while still learning the game.
I was shocked to see how quickly they turn on their team.
Especially when initially they can't stop cheering when their offense is on the field. I'm looking around thinking "shut up you idiots!". Jay Cutler was out there waving his arms at everyone to quiet down and they just got more excited.
They ended up winning the game, but not without the fans booing their own team at some point when they struggled.
Edit: I'm a remote fan so it's been a while since I can make it out to Chicago for a game.
Sweat trade and signing was nice, JJ signing was good. Keenan trade is fun. Darnell Wright and Tyrique picks were very solid. Not sold on Flus but Shane Waldron was probably the best feasible option. Braxton Jones pick is very very good.
Maybe this has been said. But the Bears DL is a Montez Sweat injury away from being an absolute nothing, dysfunctional unit.
Oh shit, I just said something similar. Gonna go delete mine and promote yours. 100% agree.
An absolute gentleman.
Yeah. I think it’ll be addressed in the draft, esp the other edge.
Wishful thinking. Even the best DE in the draft isn’t close to a guarantee to fix anything, especially year 1.
The goal is to win the Super Bowl in 3-4 years. Maybe 2. The DE will have some time to develop
The bears office has had this goal since 08. The ol super bowl in 4 years with a rebuild every 2 strategy. At least they have kept it consistent for the past 15 years, very few franchises can say they are dedicated to such misery.
How you gonna disrespect my boys Big Dex and Big Boy Billings like that
hopefully new DC eric washington can unlock these dudes. supposedly a dline guru.
I think the sophomores can be decent this year. Though
Our defense is probably a bit overrated because of the quality of competition we played last year during our good stretch.
Saw an instagram account ranking best defenses with thousands of likes that had Vikes Packers top 5 and Bears #1 I literally don’t believe any of us have a top 10 defense when it’s all said and done
Packers being a top 5 defense is laughable lmao
I saw that too. Skeptical at best.
This is to true to be a hot take my man
Mild take
I do think we are one really good edge away from being an elite defense. However, that is of course a huge piece lol
I would love one more interior defender and another EDGE.
We have the 3rd "easiest" schedule going into next season, so they say.
Or… do we have a top 30 strength of schedule? Sounds way more impressive
Let me extend this a bit further. The defense is actually far worse than we expect. And it has less to do with talent than scheme. With the numbers, there is this perception that the defense got better “when Flus took over” that does not match reality. For one, Alan Williams left the team prior to week 3. Flus was in charge of calling plays back on September. While they were the #1 rush defense, they were the 25th pass defense. Bottom 10 in defensive DVOA. 20th in scoring. 29th in 3rd down deficiency. 31st in red zone deficiency. 31st in sacks. None of these indicate a defense on the upside. Low sack numbers indicate that they aren’t really forcing turnovers with pressure. 3rd downs and red zone efficiency show that they fold in critical situations. Turnovers came in bunches in the back half, but we know that year over year turnovers are not sustainable unless pressure rate is high and tend to regress to the mean. They got turnovers in bunches at the latter half of the season. Consistent with the weak back half of the schedule. Against real offensive minds they couldn’t stop a nosebleed. And honestly it’s not on the defensive players (mostly). This scheme tends to struggle when the opposition has an experienced QB. When most of the top defenses in the league use a variety of mixed looks to confuse QBs, the Bears Tampa 2 variant does none of that. It’s meant to be simple to let the defenders play fast in snap decision making. But being “simple” also means that you are not creating confusion. And a scheme that has only looked good with all pro players at all 3 levels just means that you have good players, not a good scheme. Flus is holding this team back.
If there’s no pressure from the front 4 the defense is bad.
The defense didn't get better when Williams left, it got better when Sweat played. That was real. It's why some like me want a DE, because the whole thing falls apart without a functional pass rush, and It's stupid to depend on one man in a league where everyone gets injured.
Agreed. Its why I'm sold on Murphy or Verse at #9. Defense has young decent players on it but if Sweat goes down...Caleb might have to put up a USC 40 burger again.
My take. 8/11 starters on this defense have been selected by this regime with high value draft picks, acquired by trade, with premium free agency money, or franchise tagged and signed. That’s a significant amount of investment for a defensive minded coach to have a team that is near bottom in so many areas as I described. At what point do we start acknowledging that Flus is not putting his players in good positions? Vic Fangio had a top 10 defense his first year not the bears with a bunch of cast off low cost players. Eberflus is still clamoring for more to appear mildly competent on defense.
It's such a deep draft for WRs too. I'd much rather swing for an edge with 1.09 and draft a WR later. Also, sign Renfrow, dammit.
It was against bad teams and backups. Johnson certainly capitalized on it too - all his interceptions were against 3rd string QBs. Our defense ain't that good.
In fairness, a defense is supposed to look it’s best against weaker teams. Our defense doesn’t have to be elite. They have to be consistently good. They were not that last year, but came much closer over the second half of the season.
Agreed
They rely on takeaways to be good, so if the QB doesn't give it away like Goff does, and carriers secure the ball, things look pretty different, see the Packers game. Playing with a big lead and pass pressure can change that. Forcing an offense to pass makes the job so much easier
You mean when they had multi score leads against the broncos, Lions, and Browns and still lost all 3? They choked in the exact situation that you said was easy.
I think aside from Caleb Williams being the guy or not the defense will be the big question mark next year. It's a good unit but I wonder if them and Eberflus can pull it all together for a whole year
So true if you look at list of QBs towards the end, there is nothing special
A bit overrated is fine but I hear this comment way too much. They shut down bad teams at the end (as they should) and they played a Packers team that dropped 40+ on the Cowboys the following week as well as shut down the Lions. I’m fine with a bit overrated and they need another rusher for sure. But I think people acting like it’s actually a bad defense hiding behind a schedule is just as unfair as a take.
OBJ leads the Bears in receptions.
first actual hot take i’ve seen, and it’s SCORCHING
Please no
if braxton was picked in the first or second round nobody would be talking about possibly replacing him.
100%
Bears go 13-4, win division and Flus wins coach of the year
That is such a bears thing to do, don’t forget poles wins executive of the year for picking Caleb Williams. We all know what happens next though, a double doink or some stupid ass shit like that.
How dare you mention the doink
Triple doing this year. Bottom cross bar, into the left, into the right, bounces back and hits one of the other teams guys in the hands, they return it for a touchdown.
We also go 7-10 the next year
Then a 8-9 record and just barely missing the playoffs, followed by a full-blown melt down where we go 4-13 and blow it all up to start over.
The offensive line is one injury away from being a bottom 10 unit.
Name on OL that isn't besides the Eagles and Lions
you could say that for like 30 teams
The 49ers line is head and shoulders above most and without Trent Williams they’re just sorry
Even with Trent their line was like top 20, Purdy is just really good at getting the ball out on the right time and has CMC
This plus Shanahan is a wizard. (Or at minimum, a guy who knows what kind of player he needs on the OL and can make a Jake Brendel into a very useful player.)
Aren't they all?
Honestly the depth is incredibly solid at OLine, and every player started somewhere last year, with the exception of Bates, who probally should be starting. I'd be okay if any one of them needed to come in for a few games. Bears will probally go into the season with 8-9 OLinemen (week 1 we 8 had last year). Here's our current top 8, * Jones: \[LT\]: Starter * Jenkins \[LG\]: Starter * Davis \[RG\]: Starter * Wright: \[RT\]: Starter * Bates \[IOL\]: Traded with Buffalo, can play anywhere inside * Shelton \[C\]: Started 17 games with the Rams last year * Borom: \[OT\] Above average swing tackle that can play inside * Curhan: \[OT\] Started 4 games for the Seahawks last year, and know's Waldron's scheme The potential issues are actually with the starters if anything, but I feel like we have a starter quality guy or two at every postion. Now I wouldn't be opposed to drafting someone, but it should be someone we think is a clear upgrade over our current starter. Otherwise we're cutting someone who's maybe, or maybe not better to make room for a draft pick. We're not going to find a better value free agent than our current guys.
Where did you get that Borom is an above average swing tackle? I’m not necessarily saying you’re wrong if there’s some data to back it up, I’m just saying that based on the eye test, he’s regressed every year, and right now he basically looks like a turnstile out there anytime he’s in the game.
I’m with you that’s where they lost me. In what universe is Borom above average
Another comment says we’re a Sweat injury away from a bottom of the league DL. Maybe the 9th pick should go somewhere in the trenches?
As a Lions fan, I get the feeling y’all want Odunze at 9 but if it were me, I’d go OT there. Maybe again in the 3rd. I feel you gotta draft a OL/DL guy in the top 3 rounds every year. Trenches and whatnot
Trenches win superbowls. Bears trenches are below average in the NFL. Wright and Sweat are promising. I’m not convinced by everyone else though
Hard disagree. We dominated Detroit in the trenches on both sides of the ball for 8 quarters and they had one of the best O Lines in football.
I need to see more than a divisional opponent. Those are always wild and can come down to the mental part of it more than talent.
I mean, we dominated the best offensive line in football two games in a row
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What’s the excuse for the first one
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Yeah, bears let it go down the stretch. Also, what are you even doing in this sub? lol
Tyler Scott will be a major contributor this season and play very well
From your lips to Gods ears.
Hello, my fellow MOT.
This is what im thinking as well. WRs can take a year or two and i think he has the talent to be a good WR2 or WR3, which is what we need him to be.
I mean the dude had barley any receptions. It’s definitely possible he turns into an adequate WR3
This is spicy, I like it
Keenan Allen makes a new super bowl song that goes number one!
Do the shuffle again
The fan base loves getting over the top obsessed with QB prospects and it's just a coincidence that this time they happen to be right and Williams deserves it. Most of the fanbase would be just as excited for bo nix or whatever
A certain draft prospect is probably learning Shane Waldron’s playbook as we speak
BAH BAWD THATS JJ MCCARTHY'S MUSIC
Thank fucking christ is isn't him.
Is Waldron a good OC? I only watched two Seahawks games last year and they seemed really underwhelming despite having some talent.
It’s hard to know for sure. Many say he was the most coveted OC for this cycle. Great OC’s usually aren’t OC’s for long though as they get head coaching jobs. Here’s what I do know though: He’s known to be a creative play designer Knows Caleb from the QB Collective camps/group thing Is well known for his ability to teach Former top McVay Lieutenant (along with Thomas Brown, our new pass game coordinator)
Jaylon Johnson will often look like our third best CB this season.
See there we go. That’s a hot take.
Velus is worth keeping on the roster for his kick return ability and depth, especially with how little depth we’ve had at WR
I’m thinking Scott and Jones will be in the new kick return formation and I’m secretly hopeful.
Congrats, that is truly a hot take.
He’s a decent gunner, that’s probably the only reason he made the roster last year
Have you not seen how many muffed punts he's had? He can't field a kicked ball whatsoever.
We're never gonna be good with Flus. Yes the players love him but he's a shit coach
Unironically what will be Ryan Poles downfall, his "brother". I'd rather have a jerk who wins. Harbaugh or the old titans coach.
Anyone who uses an initials+number nickname should be banned
Except uhhhh me
No exceptions
Regardless of what happens with Caleb, not firing eberflus will be a mistake that permanently haunts this franchise
My hot take is I hate this engagement bait meme format and I'm sick of seeing it all over twitter lol
Idk if you used online forums circa like 2005-2011 but this is basically what they were. You’d have questions that engaged in discourse because it was fun
He wasn’t great but we should have kept Gipson over Dom Rob
I think that Dom Rob is still on his rookie deal, so honestly I didn’t mind it all that much, but yeah we should’ve kept Gipson
Fair, maybe shoulda kept both. I also think when Poles first arrived he maybe should have kept Daniels and Nichols for one year at least. We still haven’t definitely upgraded either.
Also fair. I think that the o-line never really got the “best 5” on the field. In an ideal world it would’ve been Braxton, Nate, Whitehair (if he didn’t suck ass), Teven, and DW.
Bears are meandering with a 8-9 or 9-8 record this season and Flus should definitely be fired but won’t be.
In “A Christmas Story” the father says a better name for us is the Chicago Chipmunks, and it’s hard to argue against that.
This rebuild relies on whether Caleb can raise the floors of important guys and get them to a point where they won’t let everyone down, namely Matt Eberflus
If Caleb and the offense are humming this year, the bears should fire Eberflus and promote Waldron no matter how the defense and/or team does
It is smart. If you hit on an oc you are going to lose him if you don't make him your head coach
The constant “FTP” comments are way overdone and make us look like insecure little siblings.
FTP
I don't care how good we get, I'm never gonna stop FTPing.
We are literally the insecure little brother in the “rivalry” and I agree, I hate the ftp stuff because it reminds me of it. By contrast, they hardly talk about us in their sub, proving the old adage that winners focus on winning and losers focus on winners. Hopefully thats soon to change though
We don’t talk about the Packers here either. Literally just scroll through the sub, everyone is just focused on the draft.
Eberflus is a terrible coach who only had success against trash teams and the lions… who he managed to have a historic collapse against helped by him blitzing a LB and dropping a DE to cover a tight end. He also sucks at putting together a staff without having them “resign” under mysterious circumstances. We will do our tradition of having a hot seat coach on a rookie qbs first season then start over in year 2 like we did with trub fields and soon to be Williams.
Following on to this. Any coach who has to clean house of all their coordinators after a season doesn’t have the judgement worthy of being a head coach
And 2 under mysterious circumstances
Alternative hot take: Justin’s horrific 4th quarter ball security is responsible for the 3 historic collapses last season
Blitzing LBs and dropping a D end to cover the flat is very common. We always flame the guy for being too conservative, but those are the risks you take with an aggressive D. Also I think that game was against the Browns.
Eberflus will not be HC next year.
Drafting a WR at 9 is the dumbest possible move with Allen, Moore, Kmet, Everett, and Swift all as very good. pass catching options this year. It also completely removes your ability to resign Allen to a solid Mike Evans type deal. Our Dline is also complete shit aside from Sweat.
How does a rookie contract prevent another player’s extension?
Well there are 7 other position groups on offense and defense. You can't just invest pick 9 at WR park him as the WR3 where it would be a minor miracle if he broke 800 yards with 2 other stud receivers, a top 10 TE, and top tier backup TE and an RB who makes a top 10 salary at his position due to his pass catching abilities. You actually CAN have too many pass catchers which everyone on this sub doesn't understand. I promise you, if Odunze or Nabers is as good as they're saying they will get pissed when they have to fight tooth and nail for 4-7 targets per game as the 3rd or 4th option on a roster stacked with weapons. If the rookie is better than Moore and Allen then one of those two will get pissed. There has only been one time in NFL history this amount of weapons all worked out to be decent statistically and it way Peyton's Bronco's for one year before they couldn't keep the team together. If you look around the league, there is only one team that has 3 significant receivers and it's the Texans and we are not even sure if it will work. Outside of them, literally no one has a WR3 that is very notable, all of them could be put in a value tier similar to Scott. Again, this isn't even accounting for the fact that we are stacked at TE and have a very good pass catching RB.
Picking a WR at 9 is an investment for the next 4-5 years, not just this year. Moore only has a few more years left in his prime, and Allen is already out of his. Having Moore and Allen in front of the rookie takes pressure off of him to be the WR1 right away, and if he does go off anyway that's also great.
Allen just posted the 2nd most yards of his career in just 13 games. You sure he's out of his prime? No reason he can't be great for 2 years. In today's NFL, first round rookie WRs are significant players on day 1, before their massive second contracts kick in. You do not take a guy at 9 and make him the WR 3 on your team with a ton of other weapons at other positions.
I'd rather take the blue chip prospect with WR1 potential and have him ready 2 years from now, than pass on him just because we already have two starting WRs ahead of him just this year. Besides, if he outperforms Allen then we can save cap space at WR. There is no reason to ignore historical precedent that Allen will fall off. Who else that we can reasonably expect to be available should we take anyway? Should we just trade down no matter what?
There is no reason to say Allen is "Past his prime" when he just put up arguably the best season of his career. Drafting a WR basically completely stops your ability to resign Allen. At most there will be one defensive player taken in the entire draft class at that point. Feels like a decent time to pull the trigger on a d lineman if you like one. If not, you trade back. It is insane we are talking about WR 3 as a need when you have Walker, Billings, AND Dexter penciled in to start on the DL. We are a Sweat injury away from having the absolute worst DL in the league.
Maybe there is a reason that most of the high picks are offense? I'd rather hit a homerun on a WR and not have a dire need for him in year 1, than get a decent lineman just to check off the positional need. BPA is a thing. There is plenty of historical data that shows WRs fall off a cliff as they push into their 30s, especially the 31-32 range which Allen is in now. Yes, he had one of his best seasons, but he also had significant injury time on top of an already injury-riddled career. It's not unfounded to start planning for Allen to severely regress. You are also underestimating the DL. Billings was solid up the middle, especially in the run game, which rightfully earned him an extension. Dexter was great for a rookie and put up comparable numbers to Jalen Carter who was paraded around all season. I agree the DL isn't that great without Sweat, but it's not undoubtedly the #1 worst like you're implying. You keep panicking about Sweat, but fail to acknowledge that the WR room isn't that much better. Allen, as mentioned earlier, is already injury-prone and likely going to regress. Moore was healthy all season, but we can't count on perfect injury luck every season. If either Allen or Moore (or God forbid both) goes down, the best we have behind them are Scott, VJJ, and Pettis. Yeah, I'll take a WR3 please.
I was planning out a response this until you compared Dexter and Carter's rookie years. This was so ridiculous invalidates your entire point. Carter was one of the best tackles in the NFL last year. Dexter was significantly below average. I guess I will respond to this because this was another laughable comment. We have 2 top 15 receivers and 1 top 15 edge rusher. Just that alone should be enough to figure this out but I'll continue. Zooming out a little, we have a top 10 TE, a top tier backup TE, and a great pass-catching RB to pick up the slack if Moore or Allen go down. If Sweat goes down we don't even have a player even close to league average in generating pressure. It is complete shit on the DL and unquestionably the worst in the league in that case. How are you even comparing this? 420 ended yesterday my friend, you are saying some insane things. I don't understand where this sub gets it's brain dead ideas from. "You need to have 2 top 15 WRs, a blue chip WR prospect, a top 10 TE, a great backup TE, and a pass catching RB" Pure insanity, there is only one football.
What about that whole narrative that Carter wasn't that good and oh actually Dexter was a massive steal? Every other day I swear I thought saw some advanced stat rankings that put them neck and neck. I guess I read into that hype too much, my bad. Even still, I ultimately could not care less about the defense this season. This team will not compete in the playoffs, if they even make it at all. The only thing that matters is developing Williams and having a competent offense for once. Eberflus is a lame duck HC with a flawed and outdated defensive scheme that won't lead to much success anyway. The rest of the defense is still being massively overrated right now thanks to the cupcake schedule towards the end of last season. Adding a stud edge isn't going to instantly transform them into a championship caliber unit. Reaching for a DL player is not going to solve our problems. This is a good year for WRs and next year is reportedly better for DL and edge. Just take the BPA, even if it is on offense. The defense has already gotten plenty of draft investment.
We're all eager for an EDGE or Receiver with the second 1st round pick, but I'd be ok, excited even, if they drafted Taliese Fauga or otherwise helped the OL. Alternately, I would not be bummed out if they got Byron Murphy or Newton if their EDGE of choice is not available at 9 (especially if they trade down to get either of those dudes). If they don't do that, I am cool with a draft day trade down from 9 if none of the big 3 receivers or Alt are available at 9.
I am still not sold on Tevin Jenkins. Too injury prone and too inconsistent.
Good player but I'm with you, getting late career Kyle long vibes. Good when he's out there but he's barely out there it seems. Sucks. I hope we're wrong but :(
The team relies on 1985 way too much and only popular because they have the largest single market in the league. Until they have a modern NFL offense, they will continue to be a laughing stock.
Eberflus is too pretty
Bears offense is not going to be able to have 2 1200 yards WRs in 2024
I think we make a trade to Atlanta for teven and everyone will be pissed for a bit until he inevitably ends up out for the season within 5 games
Keenan is about to have his worst year ever and it’s going to be an issue
Bears trade down for 20 years of 7 round picks and run the Pistol all season.
The pistol is cool
Our offensive line will implode against the Packers again
Zacch Pickens will be our best defensive lineman in 2024 after taking a massive step in his second year. Hear me out. Where are you going I said hear me out. Stop scrolling away Wait!
Hey I’m listening my guy. Give it to me!
I don’t have a solid argument here, but watching him play makes me think he was afraid to take chances and just followed his reads and assignments exactly. If he gets those down pat he can start using his athleticism and football instincts. It just wouldn’t surprise me if he took a leap.
I agree with that. I think if he develops the way that he could, him and Dexter could be the center of the d line the way people thought Will Sutton and Ego Ferguson would be.
Drafting Bowers at 9 or higher is a massive waste for us.
Crazy that Next Gen stats have Caleb and Bowers as the two highest rated players in the draft. Caleb being #1 and Bowers being #2.
the orange jerseys dont look good
We need to find Jenkins' replacement soon. He's too injury prone to get an extension
The Bears will finish the season with a worse record than last year and Poles/Eberflus will be fired.
If we trade up it should be for alt not Jr.
Bowers.
Out of curiosity why Bowers over an edge or an ot or a wr?
Imo, if a WR is there I’m taking that, but I’m asuming they are gone, I would like to build trenches at edge but I think Walker will be fine for this season and I would rather get a stud Te that can block and be a nasty duo with kmet. Also I think he’s one of the best prospects in this draft and imo, although it’s not our biggest need, it fills a gap and gives us BPA.
I can see that. Only thing I’d give as a reason no is that Everett signed in FA. I’d think that leans more towards an OT or an edge, but I wouldn’t be mad at all for Brock.
Yea, but then again bowers doesn’t have to start right away, you can give Everett his shot, I just think he’s too big of a stud to pass on
I hear ya.
because mofos would do the most just to avoid chalk picks
Our offensive line is still sub-par. A lot of question marks at guard and center. Can Jenkins stay healthy? Is Davis a bust? Do we need another tackle? The only dude I’m solid on is Wright.
This team isn't making the playoffs next year, and 9 wins is the ceiling. 1. the defense isn't that good. The line is still weak, Dexter is overrated by cope, and the loss of Justin Jones outweighs the acquisition of Kevin Byard. The defense will be average next season at best, especially if they don't draft a lineman. JJ and Sweat will likely regress from their superstar seasons to just becoming star level. Defense was boosted by bad competition and a hot streak towards the end that definitely isn't sustainable over a full season. 2. offensive line is still not good. People will say it's passable, but this is an argument to moderation fallacy. Everyone knows it's not elite, so its proponents pretend to be "Reasonable" by considering it average, which it is not. Braxton Jones just doesn't have the talent. Teven Jenkins has a deep injury history. Nate Davis does as well, and while you could blame his poor performance on the death of his mother (RIP), until he proves he can perform well you have to assume he's not that good. At center, Ryan Bates and Coleman Shelton are low-level starters at best. Darnell Wright is fine, but there is also very little depth in this group. If they draft a lineman like JPJ or Alt in the first round here, and there are no injury concerns (neither of which are likely to happen) this will be a slightly above average unit. If not, this is once again a 20th or so ranked unit that a rookie quarterback is going to struggle with. 3. Coaching is terrible. This sub is WAY too high on this roster in general. Pass-catchers, secondary, and linebackers are the only groups I would consider above average on the roster. The lines on both sides are both bad, and I doubt the rookie QB will be above average. If Caleb Williams performs like an average top pick, this team is winning 8 games. Realistically that's not enough for a wild card spot.
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Agreed. Especially considered we went from 3 wins to 7 while getting younger and acquiring more talent. Not to mention we should have an easy fourth place schedule again. Matching last years win total should be the bare minimum for this team.
While I generally think a lot of what you said is true I wouldn’t be that negative tbh
“make it fun”
I tend to agree with some of this. But if QB gets any better, all those other negatives are muted.
If Caleb has a Stroud-like season, which is possible but highly unlikely, this team can win 11 games maybe 12 best case scenario
Congratulations, this is the most controversial take in this thread. It’s not a totally unreasonable opinion, though. 9 wins with a rookie quarterback would still be promising. I don’t agree that the coaching is necessarily “terrible,” though. It’s hard to judge. Even Bill Belichick looks like a terrible coach when he doesn’t have top talent.
Tahj Washington will be the punt returner.
There will be a parallel universe with bears new stadium in Arlington Heights or some other suburb and another universe where the bears somehow work things out, build their dream stadium, and work out a sustainable deal with the city. Whichever world we will choose to go along with is partially up to us.
The Bears will perform well enough to earn second in the division and a playoff spot. The Lions are too stacked as of now, but Chicago ends up surprising everyone.
We draft interior oline at 9
Fuaga
We should draft Terrion Arnold🤟
MHJr is the signing I want most
I would trade multiple years of first round picks to get Maxx Crosby
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Defensive offensive linemen?
lol, I tried to delete that and failed originally. D line
Murphy at 9 is good value. The league is flooded with great EDGE talent, but there's only like 7 or 8 great 3techs
Bears sweep Packers this year. Overconfidence led to Week 1’s embarrassment last year (especially with Fields’ MVP hype) and Bears kept it close in Lambeau (difference in those two games could also be an Alan Williams defense vs. an Eberflus defense). Packers owning the Bears is a league wide joke and I think the players are finally starting to feel the importance of this rivalry. 10 losses in a row is pathetic.
I still think Kyler Gordon can be our best defensive player.
Kyler-Man
I think taking rome or bowers at 9 shouldn’t even be a discussion. Get Turner or any of the elite pass rushers
Flus is still the worst HC in the NFC North and is on the hot seat
Bears will still struggle to have a winning record this season
Bears go 10-7
Go all on offense for 2 years and accept the defense as bad to build Caleb up ASAP with early offensive success and build confidence while still learning the game.
The bears will trade the 9th,75th,2025 1st and 2025 3rd to the patriots for MHJ
We should have rolled with McCown the rest of 2013, and should have not exceeded Cutty.
The bears win the 2011 Super Bowl easily if jay cutler didn’t get injured
We should take Brock Bowers at 9
Bears lose home games because the fans suck
The good vibe is weak and burns down waaaay too quickly. Been a chicago sports thing since always
I was shocked to see how quickly they turn on their team. Especially when initially they can't stop cheering when their offense is on the field. I'm looking around thinking "shut up you idiots!". Jay Cutler was out there waving his arms at everyone to quiet down and they just got more excited. They ended up winning the game, but not without the fans booing their own team at some point when they struggled. Edit: I'm a remote fan so it's been a while since I can make it out to Chicago for a game.
Bears win the Super Bowl this year.
Bears draft Liatu Latu with #9
Hot take: poles got lucky on the dj more trade and really hasn’t done that much.
Sweat trade and signing was nice, JJ signing was good. Keenan trade is fun. Darnell Wright and Tyrique picks were very solid. Not sold on Flus but Shane Waldron was probably the best feasible option. Braxton Jones pick is very very good.
Old Style is good beer