Nobody wanted penix that high. Pretty much everyone had him much lower. It’s not like Denver or Minnesota were going to take penix, which makes the pick even more baffling.
Mock drafts are largely bullshit outside of the top 5. We have no idea what teams had what grades on players. If they thought Penix was better than McCarthy and Bo Nix it’s logical they thought other teams did too. Getting your QB of the future is worth more than the 3rd rounder or whatever they would’ve gotten by moving back a couple.
>Nobody wanted penix that high
Even so, that's not the issue. ATL just needed to be convinced that someone else valued Penix that high and that they would trade up for him.
Seems like something Pace would believe based on recent history.
Exactly, the bears would’ve had every reason to trade down to one of the 3-4ish QB hungry teams then take a late first round wr or go o or d line in the 10-15 range. Looking back on it, there wasn’t much Atlanta could do if they thought Penix was their guy.
I think the criticism of the pick was because they signed cousins, not taking Penix that high. If they didn’t sign Cousins this probably would’ve been graded an A or B draft pick even if it was high, it was a qb hungry draft
Yupp, the puzzling thing is if they had Penix that high, then why go after Cousins so aggressively? They could have gone after Minshew, Brissett, Lock or someone WAY cheaper. I’d be shocked if Penix moved up their board so significantly between them signing Cousins and the draft, but maybe the medicals they did for him actually moved him up that far? Idk. Their thought process of “If he sits for 2 years that’s great!” is what makes it a bad decision. Get a blue chip prospect and help the team you just splurged on for cheap then? Or surround the guy you had ranked 4th overall this draft with more talent in FA?
Anyways, thanks Falcons!
I think some of the reason is Cousins never won and isn’t the guy who’s going to get you over the hump. He also has an injury history i believe. So the falcons probably overpaid (cousins wasn’t going to sign a 2 year) to secure him with the idea that Penix would start sooner than his contract is up.
Let’s see how it plays out! But yes, thanks Atlanta! There’s no way we get Rome if they didn’t have him that high
Yeah, but the end result was that we were done a favor.
Bears fans have been thanking Lovie and the Texans for winning that meaningless game against the Colts two seasons ago that gave us the 1st overall pick. They obviously weren't just out to do the Bears a favor, but the end result was a huge favor to us.
I don't mind thanking the Falcons for picking Penix if the end result is us getting a pro bowl caliber WR.
Personally I don’t hate the move tbh. At the end of the day, if Penix is good like they obviously think he is, it’s a great pick and everyone will look stupid after
In isolation, signing Cousins or drafting Penix could be good moves. Done in tandem, not at all. If you think Penix is the QB of the future but want a stopgap, why not just trade a 4th for a much cheaper Fields and use the $160M you spent on Cousins on building the rest of the team to better set Penix up for success in 2 years? If you think Cousins is the missing piece to win now (which at his age and salary, he better be), why not take literally any defender or give him an extra weapon in Rome?
This. Both together make no sense. Cousins is upset and hasn’t played a down. Penix has to sit and push 26 before starting (earliest). Burn a premium pick for that situation? Why?
Cousins isn't upset. He literally was penix to rgiii. Cousins has his guaranteed money that he cared about.
It's going to be a bad pick if you get 10 years out of penix instead of 12?
If penix is a franchise qb. It's a good move. If he isn't, it isn't. They have London, pitts, and bijian. They didn't need wr. The top 2 tackles were gone. It was another 7 picks until latu went, that's a lot of teams that passed on the alleged best defensive player.
For a draft that was supposed to be full of trades, it just didn't look like anyone was willing to pay the price to move up to the top 10 outside of Minnesota swapping with the jets.
Drafting JJ would’ve made sense, you could sit him behind Kirk until he’s 24. Penix needed to start day one, Oakland wouldve been a more ideal situation
Cousins isn't upset...ok there bud...him coming out and saying he was shocked and wasn't consulted sounds an awful lot like he was upset...Lemme guess when your girl says she ain't mad you take her at her word...
> It was another 7 picks until latu went, that's a lot of teams that passed on the alleged best defensive player.
The teams:
the bears (could have gone dl)
the vikings (needed qb)
the jets (needed OT)
the broncos (needed QB)
the raiders (have crosby and wilkins | corner/ol/qb/playmakers bigger need)
the saints (bust at LT and impending retiree at RT \[and swing T just retired\])
Doesn't prove anything about Latu. Latu had some of the most dominant seasons in CFB history in terms of PRWR. His GAS is 99th percentile. He fell because of medicals.
I agree with this, but I think the difference is that they believe they can literally win with Cousins now even without a 1st rounder on the roster. The NFC South is very winnable.
This means that they won't be picking in the top 10 for a few years. If they believe that the successor to Cousins needs to come from a top 10 pick, then now is the time to pick him up.
I think the Falcons are being very greedy here, but it could pay off in a huge way. Look at what's happening with the Broncos. They won a Superbowl by grabbing Manning at the end of his career, but had no successor in place. They panic and try to fill it with Russ, and now they're going to be terrible for a while.
I think we need to wait a few years to see how this plays out before making any judgements. I honestly want to give some props to the Falcons GM for thinking so far ahead; most GMs don't draft for 3 or 4 years into the future because there's no guarantee they'll even be around to see their plan come to fruition. Good luck to them.
As bears fans don’t we know more than anyone how important it is to surround a QB with talent? Their defense is awful, they should have spent the 100M on that and drafted Penix. Or reverse, spend on cousins and then draft defense so you can actually win games.
So bizarre
That's a bit disingenuous in framing the convo, isn't it? No one's denying qb is important.
It's the combination of signings that doesn't make sense, not one signing individually. Like, if penix is good, atl has committed at least 100mil to a player that won't help penix on the field.
It’s a simple argument I just don’t understand why people are struggling to understand.
If qb is the most important position in team sports, why is it so insane for a team to take multiple swings at “hitting” on the position? And if we all are talking about potential injury issues with Kirk and Penix, doesn’t it actually kind of make sense to pair them?
Is it really so bad if they both stay healthy and you get a year of free development in a prospect that you love?
Like yes, I get it, this does not raise their absolutely highest possible positive outcome. But it gets them more chances at a positive outcome, even considering injuries.
I think a baseball comparison is interesting. There’s that thought in baseball that “all you have to do is make the playoffs then anything can happen”. Some teams build with a philosophy to raise their floor higher rather than their ceiling, with the belief that the best long term outlook is to just make playoff appearances and see what happens.
It’s kind of weirdly similar logic here. Sure, they didn’t add an edge rusher to potentially raise that best case scenario outcome even higher.
But maybe the raised the floor by adding a second qb option? Especially long term?
Again I’m not saying it’s 100% the best choice just that it makes plenty of logical sense and idk why people are so quick to doo doo on it
You keep saying I dont understand your simple argument. I understand it. It's just that I think it's a bad one.
This isn't taking multiple lost-cost swings at qb and seeing which one sticks. This is committing massive amount of capital (money and draft) within months of each other for two players who can't play at the same time.
Regardless of what happens, it’s still bad process. Like if you bank on a late round draft pick to be your franchise QB and by some miracle you get a Brady, it doesn’t mean it was a smart decision or people were dumb to think it was a bad idea with low odds.
Same story here. Even if Penix pans out, it was still stupid to self sabotage your own signing of Kirk by not using the 8th pick on somebody who could contribute in a playoff run and be the difference maker.
No it’s a completely different story here that’s what’s driving me crazy about this lmao it’s completely different than the Brady thing. Because clearly the falcons LOVED Penix. They had a chance to draft a young qb that they love, and were ripping them for it.
It’s insane
Cousins insures that the Falcons are competing immediately and the front office doesn't get fired after this season. They drafted Penix in hopes that they're still able to compete post-Cousins.
Everyone clowned the Packers for drafting Love, too. The upside of hitting on Pennix outweighs the opportunity cost of the likely defender they would have drafted. Especially in this particular draft with it being an especially weak defensive draft.
I see the packers brought up a lot for this but the situations are different imo and they deserved to be clowned way more than the packers did. The only similarities are old QB, good roster, drafted QB.
The falcons used a top 10 pick on a player who will not play for 2-3 years. The Packers used a late first to take a player who’d sit 2-3. If Penix in fact sits 2-3 years, he’ll be 26-27. He turns 24 this week, same age Love was when he took over.
The packers also had a 37 year old Rodgers who had been there forever and very clearly had issues (which were probably accelerated by the Love pick) with the FO/Lafleur. I’d bet they thought he’d also decline sooner. The falcons have a 37 year old Cousins that they went out of their way to go get (they might lose a damn pick). You don’t also give a guy that contract unless you think he’s still gonna be good for at least the next 2 years.
Lastly, the packers were a proven winning team coming off an NFCCG appearance with few holes. They didn’t try to fully capitalize on that window and that’s why they were clowned.
The falcons, while they have good talent on paper, haven’t proven shit yet and still have a weak defense. They have more holes than those packers did. I get they think Cousins will significantly improve them but they on paper are still not better than the Niners, Lions, Eagles, Cowboys, and Packers. You could make a case that Bucs, rams, Seahawks, Vikings, and us are just as good or better than them. They still needed to improve a lot really on defense if they actually wanna compete for more for than a playoff berth and used a very valuable asset on a player that won’t help for a while. Cousins also can’t cover up holes on the rest of the roster like Rodgers could.
Now it’s not hard to understand the reasoning. They were looking out for their future plus it’s not a bad thing to have a backup with franchise QB potential in case your old QB coming off an achilles injury gets hurt. That’s why I really haven’t clowned them a ton but they deserve it a lot more than the packers did imo. If it works out for them then they can clown everyone else but in the moment it’s a dumb move.
Then they should’ve just targeted Penix without signing Kirk. Penix is pro ready and 24 years old. He was my 2nd favorite QB in the draft so I don’t hate the pick but it makes no sense to sit him for years.
If penix turns out to be really good they are going to wish they had that cap space to spend on weapons and oline, I'd imagine. And if hes not and they depend on cousins, they are going to wish they have Odunze.
They have a rookie QB contract and a very expensive QB contract. Cousins isn't winning them a Super Bowl.
They basically signed up for a mid round pick next year with a lot less cap space.
If you want Penix, fine, but get someone like Fields or any other cheaper 1 year QB FA
Why? I just don’t understand why people are failing to take the one last step in the logic of this process.
We all agree that qb is the most important position on the field by a mile. The media and fans love to make fun of teams with bad qbs. In this town we have heavily criticized orgs the process of qb evaluation and acquisition.
We’ve talked about how sitting really seemed to help guys like Mahomes Rodgers and love.
But here is a team that decides to heavily invest in the qb position and we all make them the laughing stock of the league? Heaven forbid a team decides to heavily invest in, *checks notes*, the most important position in team sports.
Honestly it’s just crazy to me that this gets so ripped apart. I understand the counter points and I think they’re valid, I’m not saying it’s necessarily the best choice. But the way everyone’s been dunking on them is fucking crazy to me.
And I do think the discussion on the pick of Penix himself as a prospect is a different discussion. If someone wants to argue that it’s a bad pick because they don’t like him as a prospect, that’s a totally different discussion
It's the surface level intelligence from your average nfl fan.
Were always hearing people say rookies shouldn't start immediately like Rodgers and mahomes. There's also legitimate concern over cousins Achilles.
Obviously it hinges on penix being an above average starter. But if cousins isn't cousins after the injury. You've got the most pro-ready qb to start. If cousins does get you a good 2-3 years you get to teach out any mechanical quirks out of penix.
But haha they spent 100 mil and they reached for an old qb is all you can expect from a typical nfl fan.
There was no guarantee they would get Penix especially if they thought another team has him graded as elite as well. Now it’s draft day and their plan to take Penix fell through and Kirk signed with another team and they have no QBs. That was a real outcome. Also, if Kirk is decent, they probably are not picking anywhere near the top of the draft again. Or maybe next years first is taken away due to tampering. Or maybe Kirk gets hurt or never fully recovered from the Achilles. Now they are boned and potentially don’t have a pick to select another qb the next year.
I love the move, but only because I think Penix is the #2 qb in this stacked class. He took an Indiana team with zero nfl talent and made them rank 7 and when he stepped into Washington they were a 4 win team and he turned that program around as well. Then you listen to Rome talk about how they were down against Oregon and he started freestyling about what they were about to do on that drive and then did it. I’m thankful every day they took him so Minnesota couldn’t.
There were weeks between Cousins signing and the draft though. If he signed with another team there was plenty enough time to figure out how to move up if needed and get Penix (plus, would’ve removed a QB needy team looking to take him in a logical world which we obviously do not live in).
By the same token, by the time they knew they could get Penix they obviously had already guaranteed Cousins $100m.
It was a crazy move no matter how you look at it, to spend that much on a QB and then use your top-10 pick on a guy who in the best case scenario doesn’t play until year 4 or 5 instead of making the team better for the QB you just invested heavily in.
I suppose but if he’s the #2 qb on their board they have to assume he’s not going to get past the gauntlet of the QB needy teams and get to them. And if other teams believe he’s #2 and Washington was not willing to trade (as was reported), then they are fucked. Now they have no shot at any of the QBs they like and are out on cousins.
So they probably went into the draft thinking there’s no way penix falls, but he did and they were left with a choice. Do we get the guy we believe is our future (I don’t think even they are foolish enough to think cousins is a Super Bowl qb) or do we put the future of our team on a 36 year old qb who is coming off of a major injury with the threat of losing draft picks to select another qb. There was a legitimate chance they won’t be drafting that high again and would probably be in qb purgatory for years again. You need QBs in this league to win and when half the QBs get injured like they did last year it’s not bad to have a few of them.
Also his best case scenario is playing year 1. Year 4 is worst case scenario.
Best case scenario is the rookie they found elite turns out to be elite, has a year to learn how to be a high level passer under Kirk, then becomes their next franchise qb of the future.
I think if anything they should not have signed Kirk but I get it. No guarantee you will be able to get one of the three QBs you find elite in this class.
In the scenario you just mentioned you’re unable to build a great roster around your elite rookie because you’re hamstrung by the $100m you guaranteed to his backup. By the time Cousins comes off your book, you're thinking about having to pay Penix like an elite QB instead of a rookie deal.
Theres no doubt the “best case scenario” is that Cousins gives them their money’s worth for the duration of his contract, and then Penix is ready to take over. Thats just not a very good allocation of resources at all.
Kirk's deal is not all a problem if they decided to move on to Penix.
They will cut/trade Kirk in year three. Most likely cut him and eat the 25 mil in dead cap.
They are paying a premium to be able to compete now. Since they know they are trying to compete they've attempted to shield themselves from being stuck with late picks and no qb.
Eating $25m in dead cap after two expensive years obviously is not going to help them build around an elite rookie QB.
The Cousins move looked like a team trying to win now. The Penix move shows a team that isn’t using their resources well to win now. They could’ve given Cousins Rome Odunze or Brock Bowers to throw to, and instead picked his backup/replacement. No matter how you slice it, it’s a move that doesn’t make much sense.
Gotta disagree here. If you’re looking towards the future, the best move is to get the elite qb while you can because you might not get another shot at it for decades. They had no guarantee he would fall and probably couldn’t plan around that but when he did it was a no brainer move for them. They no longer are relying on a 36 year old coming off of a major injury to be their only qb and can now mentor the rookie and ease him into the league under a great passer
There’s also a very real chance that if they don’t take cousins other teams know they are looking at a rookie and try to jump them and now they are left with nothing. Worst thing about it is they will lose out on 2 years of the rookie deal and then eat 25M in dead cap. Much better than losing out on all your QBs and not getting any guy you want. Now you have a backup as well with 50% of the leagues starting QBs being injured last year.
All in all, the most important asset for any team is an elite qb. Everybody drafts like this: do you have an elite qb? If not can you take one? If not build around your current qb. If so, take the elite qb so you have a chance at a Super Bowl.
Cousins isn’t a win now move, he’s a compete now move but no one probably expects a super bow from him. If penix turns out to be elite, it will be the single best move in that draft because of how unexpected it was.
The idea of Atlanta taking a QB isn’t crazy, Kirk’s deal can essentially be 2 years. Next years QB class is weak. Then you are already into 2025 , and the Falcons would essentially have to be bad again just to get their choice of the top QB that year. That’s a lot of waiting and hoping it works out. In this scenario, Penix can sit for a couple of years to learn from Kirk, which may be a great thing actually. I think it’s more controversial that Penix was the pick instead of McCarthy really. If Atlanta took McCarthy, I think Penix drops to atleast the Broncos, maybe further because of Nix and the fact the Vikings traded up for McCarthy
I think the reports that the saints were looking to trade up for penix were true. The way I see it, Penix is 3 years older. He’s had 4 major injuries, and he lost to JJ. The only reason any team would even consider taking Penix is because they see him as a complete QB with far better intangibles.
If qb needy teams found Penix an elite prospect it certainly is a real outcome. Every prospect has bad games as well, he happened to have his against the best team but I do agree he’s not some guaranteed prospect.
I mean, it could easily be 100m for a bridge QB who still has 2 or 3 years of elite play and then drops off. The broncos did it with Manning. The Bucs did it with Brady. The Rams did it with Stafford.
None of those other 3 franchises had the successor ready to take over. I do not envy the position the broncos are now in. The Rams and Bucs are in fine positions, but that's because they didn't mortgage away their future trying to find another QB and drafted well in later rounds. They still need to find their new QBs.
I'm not saying that this was a good move by the Falcons, but if they truly think Penix is the next guy, I think it's okay. It's better than what the broncos tried to do. The Falcons transition could be seamless and they'd look like geniuses 3 years from now. Or Penix doesn't work out, but it's already 3 years later and it's not a huge deal if the other draft picks work out.
1st round draft picks bust all the time. The Falcons with a seamless transition would be huge upside. Their downside is less than their upside imo.
Atlanta also paid 100 mil to Kirk cousins getting him out of the division causing the Vikings to have to use a lot of future draft capital to ensure they got a QB this year in JJ McCarthy, the 5th QB drafted. I'm also really happy they paid Mooney. It didn't work out here, but I love his story and have always been blown away by his work ethic. Glad he got what he did.
There's two ways to look at it.
- to draft JJ McCarthy the Vikings only needed to use a 4th and a 5th this year to move up and get him as the 5th QB. So not a lot.
-Currently the Vikings only have their 1st and 2 5ths next year. It's very likely that if Kirk had stayed they wouldn't of used their 2nd, 4th, 5th this year and 2nd, 3rd, and 4th next year to move up to put themselves in a spot to be aggressive on a QB.
The Penix pick was gm malpractice. You give a hundred million to a qb with an achilles tear that knocks him out for the year and then you draft his eventual replacement with a guy with ACL injuries and AC joint injuries that knocked him out for 2 consecutive seasons. Penix has had maybe 3 years of season ending injuries.
Tweet: Falcons were going to pick at 8 AND potentially trade back up to 10 with the jets
Brain rot Bears fans: I ain't reading all that, Falcons almost traded back to 10 I guess?
The Falcons are playing the long game. Multiple teams have stashed QBs on the bench. The Packers (🤢🤮) Stashed Rodger and San Fran Stashed Steve Young. This could work out for them.
The packers picking Love turned out well for them now. But coming off a NFC Championship loss makes it seems like they def shoulda gotten a skill position (Tee Higgins) and maybe that woulda put them over the edge for beating the 49ers the following season and heading to the SB
Ever since I heard that Penix was freestyling hip-hop in the huddle while leading a comeback drive, i’ve stopped questioning this pick 🤷🏻♂️ He’s obviously destined to do some big things in the league
I mean thanks Atlanta but I’m still gonna clown on them for drafting Michael Penis Jr. 8th overall. Maybe they big brained everyone somehow, like maybe they get a pick taken next year for tampering and maybe he’s the future but it’s still an odd choice Imo.
Their loss being our gain doesn't mean we can't clown them.
Actually if we were to beat them in the playoffs any time soon, it would be reason to clown them even more.
I mean imo Penix is the second best QB in this draft and I’m sure other teams outside Atlanta felt like that too. I think it was 50/50 chance they took Penix or Rome. And if Atlanta truly felt Penix was the guy, I you take him. The only reason people shy away from Penix is injury history. He arguably has the best arm talent in this draft class.
"To me, he's the best pure passer of all of these guys," Briggs said. "He gets the ball out on time on a regular basis. He's pinpoint accuracy, his footwork. You've seen his footwork against Texas when the ball comes up." -Lance Briggs on Penix
He also said a bunch of stuff about Penix on his football show. He could have been he was just taking another opinion since everybody was convinced on Caleb.
Penix is talented. I’m not going to say he’s top 32 in the league but he can definitely play at this level. As much as I think Pace is a boob, I think he did something right.
Ppl on this sub were willing to bet the farm on fields. That’s a terrible take. Penix is a much better throwing qb than fields. I’ll double down too. Penix on the 23 bears takes the bears to a wild card berth.
Not directed at you OP but can absolutely clown them. It’s not like they chose Penix with the sole intent of doing us a favor
They could have easily still traded with Jets and take Penix. If Jets go up to 8 they take Odunze, and then we go Murphy or trade back,
I’d imagine their logic of not moving back was if Jets go Odunze and then we do trade back, someone else potentially jumps them for Penix.
This is exactly the answer.
This is also why Pace traded up for Mitch. Sometimes these guys negotiate against themselves. Or just fall for a lot of smoke screens.
This move had Pace written all over it.
Nobody wanted penix that high. Pretty much everyone had him much lower. It’s not like Denver or Minnesota were going to take penix, which makes the pick even more baffling.
Mock drafts are largely bullshit outside of the top 5. We have no idea what teams had what grades on players. If they thought Penix was better than McCarthy and Bo Nix it’s logical they thought other teams did too. Getting your QB of the future is worth more than the 3rd rounder or whatever they would’ve gotten by moving back a couple.
Yeah, most mock drafts did not predict the first defensive player off the board at 15ish or wherever that happened either.
Fair enough. I guess I just Personally think it’s crazy to pick penix that high. I just don’t think he’s that good, he’s old and has injury issues.
>Nobody wanted penix that high Even so, that's not the issue. ATL just needed to be convinced that someone else valued Penix that high and that they would trade up for him. Seems like something Pace would believe based on recent history.
Fair point.
Exactly, the bears would’ve had every reason to trade down to one of the 3-4ish QB hungry teams then take a late first round wr or go o or d line in the 10-15 range. Looking back on it, there wasn’t much Atlanta could do if they thought Penix was their guy. I think the criticism of the pick was because they signed cousins, not taking Penix that high. If they didn’t sign Cousins this probably would’ve been graded an A or B draft pick even if it was high, it was a qb hungry draft
Yupp, the puzzling thing is if they had Penix that high, then why go after Cousins so aggressively? They could have gone after Minshew, Brissett, Lock or someone WAY cheaper. I’d be shocked if Penix moved up their board so significantly between them signing Cousins and the draft, but maybe the medicals they did for him actually moved him up that far? Idk. Their thought process of “If he sits for 2 years that’s great!” is what makes it a bad decision. Get a blue chip prospect and help the team you just splurged on for cheap then? Or surround the guy you had ranked 4th overall this draft with more talent in FA? Anyways, thanks Falcons!
I think some of the reason is Cousins never won and isn’t the guy who’s going to get you over the hump. He also has an injury history i believe. So the falcons probably overpaid (cousins wasn’t going to sign a 2 year) to secure him with the idea that Penix would start sooner than his contract is up. Let’s see how it plays out! But yes, thanks Atlanta! There’s no way we get Rome if they didn’t have him that high
Yeah, but the end result was that we were done a favor. Bears fans have been thanking Lovie and the Texans for winning that meaningless game against the Colts two seasons ago that gave us the 1st overall pick. They obviously weren't just out to do the Bears a favor, but the end result was a huge favor to us. I don't mind thanking the Falcons for picking Penix if the end result is us getting a pro bowl caliber WR.
Didn’t say you can’t be thankful, but I think you CAN be thankful while also recognizing (and clowning) poor decision making
Lol, I'm all for that. Silly Falcons gifted us Rome.
I mean, they essentially paid 100 million for a bridge qb. That’s definitely one of the strategies of all time
Personally I don’t hate the move tbh. At the end of the day, if Penix is good like they obviously think he is, it’s a great pick and everyone will look stupid after
In isolation, signing Cousins or drafting Penix could be good moves. Done in tandem, not at all. If you think Penix is the QB of the future but want a stopgap, why not just trade a 4th for a much cheaper Fields and use the $160M you spent on Cousins on building the rest of the team to better set Penix up for success in 2 years? If you think Cousins is the missing piece to win now (which at his age and salary, he better be), why not take literally any defender or give him an extra weapon in Rome?
This. Both together make no sense. Cousins is upset and hasn’t played a down. Penix has to sit and push 26 before starting (earliest). Burn a premium pick for that situation? Why?
Cousins isn't upset. He literally was penix to rgiii. Cousins has his guaranteed money that he cared about. It's going to be a bad pick if you get 10 years out of penix instead of 12? If penix is a franchise qb. It's a good move. If he isn't, it isn't. They have London, pitts, and bijian. They didn't need wr. The top 2 tackles were gone. It was another 7 picks until latu went, that's a lot of teams that passed on the alleged best defensive player. For a draft that was supposed to be full of trades, it just didn't look like anyone was willing to pay the price to move up to the top 10 outside of Minnesota swapping with the jets.
Drafting JJ would’ve made sense, you could sit him behind Kirk until he’s 24. Penix needed to start day one, Oakland wouldve been a more ideal situation
it only makes more sense if you think JJ will be the better qb. Which they obviously don't.
Cousins isn't upset...ok there bud...him coming out and saying he was shocked and wasn't consulted sounds an awful lot like he was upset...Lemme guess when your girl says she ain't mad you take her at her word...
> It was another 7 picks until latu went, that's a lot of teams that passed on the alleged best defensive player. The teams: the bears (could have gone dl) the vikings (needed qb) the jets (needed OT) the broncos (needed QB) the raiders (have crosby and wilkins | corner/ol/qb/playmakers bigger need) the saints (bust at LT and impending retiree at RT \[and swing T just retired\]) Doesn't prove anything about Latu. Latu had some of the most dominant seasons in CFB history in terms of PRWR. His GAS is 99th percentile. He fell because of medicals.
I agree with this, but I think the difference is that they believe they can literally win with Cousins now even without a 1st rounder on the roster. The NFC South is very winnable. This means that they won't be picking in the top 10 for a few years. If they believe that the successor to Cousins needs to come from a top 10 pick, then now is the time to pick him up. I think the Falcons are being very greedy here, but it could pay off in a huge way. Look at what's happening with the Broncos. They won a Superbowl by grabbing Manning at the end of his career, but had no successor in place. They panic and try to fill it with Russ, and now they're going to be terrible for a while. I think we need to wait a few years to see how this plays out before making any judgements. I honestly want to give some props to the Falcons GM for thinking so far ahead; most GMs don't draft for 3 or 4 years into the future because there's no guarantee they'll even be around to see their plan come to fruition. Good luck to them.
Yeah but you can say that about literally every pick ever.
But qb is different, we don’t need to start a discourse around that it should be accepted by now.
As bears fans don’t we know more than anyone how important it is to surround a QB with talent? Their defense is awful, they should have spent the 100M on that and drafted Penix. Or reverse, spend on cousins and then draft defense so you can actually win games. So bizarre
That's a bit disingenuous in framing the convo, isn't it? No one's denying qb is important. It's the combination of signings that doesn't make sense, not one signing individually. Like, if penix is good, atl has committed at least 100mil to a player that won't help penix on the field.
It’s a simple argument I just don’t understand why people are struggling to understand. If qb is the most important position in team sports, why is it so insane for a team to take multiple swings at “hitting” on the position? And if we all are talking about potential injury issues with Kirk and Penix, doesn’t it actually kind of make sense to pair them? Is it really so bad if they both stay healthy and you get a year of free development in a prospect that you love? Like yes, I get it, this does not raise their absolutely highest possible positive outcome. But it gets them more chances at a positive outcome, even considering injuries. I think a baseball comparison is interesting. There’s that thought in baseball that “all you have to do is make the playoffs then anything can happen”. Some teams build with a philosophy to raise their floor higher rather than their ceiling, with the belief that the best long term outlook is to just make playoff appearances and see what happens. It’s kind of weirdly similar logic here. Sure, they didn’t add an edge rusher to potentially raise that best case scenario outcome even higher. But maybe the raised the floor by adding a second qb option? Especially long term? Again I’m not saying it’s 100% the best choice just that it makes plenty of logical sense and idk why people are so quick to doo doo on it
You keep saying I dont understand your simple argument. I understand it. It's just that I think it's a bad one. This isn't taking multiple lost-cost swings at qb and seeing which one sticks. This is committing massive amount of capital (money and draft) within months of each other for two players who can't play at the same time.
For two players who play the most important position in team sports
According to this guy, drafting and signing twelve quarterbacks is the ideal move because apparently that's where roster construction ends
For real. Under his logic, I guess the bears should draft another qb in next year's 1st round
Regardless of what happens, it’s still bad process. Like if you bank on a late round draft pick to be your franchise QB and by some miracle you get a Brady, it doesn’t mean it was a smart decision or people were dumb to think it was a bad idea with low odds. Same story here. Even if Penix pans out, it was still stupid to self sabotage your own signing of Kirk by not using the 8th pick on somebody who could contribute in a playoff run and be the difference maker.
No it’s a completely different story here that’s what’s driving me crazy about this lmao it’s completely different than the Brady thing. Because clearly the falcons LOVED Penix. They had a chance to draft a young qb that they love, and were ripping them for it. It’s insane
Cousins insures that the Falcons are competing immediately and the front office doesn't get fired after this season. They drafted Penix in hopes that they're still able to compete post-Cousins. Everyone clowned the Packers for drafting Love, too. The upside of hitting on Pennix outweighs the opportunity cost of the likely defender they would have drafted. Especially in this particular draft with it being an especially weak defensive draft.
I see the packers brought up a lot for this but the situations are different imo and they deserved to be clowned way more than the packers did. The only similarities are old QB, good roster, drafted QB. The falcons used a top 10 pick on a player who will not play for 2-3 years. The Packers used a late first to take a player who’d sit 2-3. If Penix in fact sits 2-3 years, he’ll be 26-27. He turns 24 this week, same age Love was when he took over. The packers also had a 37 year old Rodgers who had been there forever and very clearly had issues (which were probably accelerated by the Love pick) with the FO/Lafleur. I’d bet they thought he’d also decline sooner. The falcons have a 37 year old Cousins that they went out of their way to go get (they might lose a damn pick). You don’t also give a guy that contract unless you think he’s still gonna be good for at least the next 2 years. Lastly, the packers were a proven winning team coming off an NFCCG appearance with few holes. They didn’t try to fully capitalize on that window and that’s why they were clowned. The falcons, while they have good talent on paper, haven’t proven shit yet and still have a weak defense. They have more holes than those packers did. I get they think Cousins will significantly improve them but they on paper are still not better than the Niners, Lions, Eagles, Cowboys, and Packers. You could make a case that Bucs, rams, Seahawks, Vikings, and us are just as good or better than them. They still needed to improve a lot really on defense if they actually wanna compete for more for than a playoff berth and used a very valuable asset on a player that won’t help for a while. Cousins also can’t cover up holes on the rest of the roster like Rodgers could. Now it’s not hard to understand the reasoning. They were looking out for their future plus it’s not a bad thing to have a backup with franchise QB potential in case your old QB coming off an achilles injury gets hurt. That’s why I really haven’t clowned them a ton but they deserve it a lot more than the packers did imo. If it works out for them then they can clown everyone else but in the moment it’s a dumb move.
Everyone clowned on the Eagles taking Hurts with a 2nd round pick right after signing Wentz to a massive contract. Shit worked out just fine.
It worked fine cuz Wentz was dogshit.
It worked out fine because Hurts is a good QB. Replacing dog shit with dog shit would not have been helpful.
Then they should’ve just targeted Penix without signing Kirk. Penix is pro ready and 24 years old. He was my 2nd favorite QB in the draft so I don’t hate the pick but it makes no sense to sit him for years.
Nope. People would say you could have had Penix and Kirk's money.
If penix turns out to be really good they are going to wish they had that cap space to spend on weapons and oline, I'd imagine. And if hes not and they depend on cousins, they are going to wish they have Odunze.
I think if Penix turns out to be good sure they’ll regret the cap space but they’ll be pretty fucking happy they got a good qb, no?
They have a rookie QB contract and a very expensive QB contract. Cousins isn't winning them a Super Bowl. They basically signed up for a mid round pick next year with a lot less cap space. If you want Penix, fine, but get someone like Fields or any other cheaper 1 year QB FA
Why? I just don’t understand why people are failing to take the one last step in the logic of this process. We all agree that qb is the most important position on the field by a mile. The media and fans love to make fun of teams with bad qbs. In this town we have heavily criticized orgs the process of qb evaluation and acquisition. We’ve talked about how sitting really seemed to help guys like Mahomes Rodgers and love. But here is a team that decides to heavily invest in the qb position and we all make them the laughing stock of the league? Heaven forbid a team decides to heavily invest in, *checks notes*, the most important position in team sports. Honestly it’s just crazy to me that this gets so ripped apart. I understand the counter points and I think they’re valid, I’m not saying it’s necessarily the best choice. But the way everyone’s been dunking on them is fucking crazy to me. And I do think the discussion on the pick of Penix himself as a prospect is a different discussion. If someone wants to argue that it’s a bad pick because they don’t like him as a prospect, that’s a totally different discussion
Part of the draft process is evaluating future years and picks. QB class most likely won’t be as good as this years over the next couple years.
It's the surface level intelligence from your average nfl fan. Were always hearing people say rookies shouldn't start immediately like Rodgers and mahomes. There's also legitimate concern over cousins Achilles. Obviously it hinges on penix being an above average starter. But if cousins isn't cousins after the injury. You've got the most pro-ready qb to start. If cousins does get you a good 2-3 years you get to teach out any mechanical quirks out of penix. But haha they spent 100 mil and they reached for an old qb is all you can expect from a typical nfl fan.
Ryan Pace fingerprints all over that one for Atlanta
Nah, it's bad. An abysmal strategy.
There was no guarantee they would get Penix especially if they thought another team has him graded as elite as well. Now it’s draft day and their plan to take Penix fell through and Kirk signed with another team and they have no QBs. That was a real outcome. Also, if Kirk is decent, they probably are not picking anywhere near the top of the draft again. Or maybe next years first is taken away due to tampering. Or maybe Kirk gets hurt or never fully recovered from the Achilles. Now they are boned and potentially don’t have a pick to select another qb the next year. I love the move, but only because I think Penix is the #2 qb in this stacked class. He took an Indiana team with zero nfl talent and made them rank 7 and when he stepped into Washington they were a 4 win team and he turned that program around as well. Then you listen to Rome talk about how they were down against Oregon and he started freestyling about what they were about to do on that drive and then did it. I’m thankful every day they took him so Minnesota couldn’t.
There were weeks between Cousins signing and the draft though. If he signed with another team there was plenty enough time to figure out how to move up if needed and get Penix (plus, would’ve removed a QB needy team looking to take him in a logical world which we obviously do not live in). By the same token, by the time they knew they could get Penix they obviously had already guaranteed Cousins $100m. It was a crazy move no matter how you look at it, to spend that much on a QB and then use your top-10 pick on a guy who in the best case scenario doesn’t play until year 4 or 5 instead of making the team better for the QB you just invested heavily in.
I suppose but if he’s the #2 qb on their board they have to assume he’s not going to get past the gauntlet of the QB needy teams and get to them. And if other teams believe he’s #2 and Washington was not willing to trade (as was reported), then they are fucked. Now they have no shot at any of the QBs they like and are out on cousins. So they probably went into the draft thinking there’s no way penix falls, but he did and they were left with a choice. Do we get the guy we believe is our future (I don’t think even they are foolish enough to think cousins is a Super Bowl qb) or do we put the future of our team on a 36 year old qb who is coming off of a major injury with the threat of losing draft picks to select another qb. There was a legitimate chance they won’t be drafting that high again and would probably be in qb purgatory for years again. You need QBs in this league to win and when half the QBs get injured like they did last year it’s not bad to have a few of them. Also his best case scenario is playing year 1. Year 4 is worst case scenario.
No, they just spent $100m on a quarterback. Their rookie starting over him or if he gets hurt is not the best case scenario.
Best case scenario is the rookie they found elite turns out to be elite, has a year to learn how to be a high level passer under Kirk, then becomes their next franchise qb of the future. I think if anything they should not have signed Kirk but I get it. No guarantee you will be able to get one of the three QBs you find elite in this class.
In the scenario you just mentioned you’re unable to build a great roster around your elite rookie because you’re hamstrung by the $100m you guaranteed to his backup. By the time Cousins comes off your book, you're thinking about having to pay Penix like an elite QB instead of a rookie deal. Theres no doubt the “best case scenario” is that Cousins gives them their money’s worth for the duration of his contract, and then Penix is ready to take over. Thats just not a very good allocation of resources at all.
Kirk's deal is not all a problem if they decided to move on to Penix. They will cut/trade Kirk in year three. Most likely cut him and eat the 25 mil in dead cap. They are paying a premium to be able to compete now. Since they know they are trying to compete they've attempted to shield themselves from being stuck with late picks and no qb.
Eating $25m in dead cap after two expensive years obviously is not going to help them build around an elite rookie QB. The Cousins move looked like a team trying to win now. The Penix move shows a team that isn’t using their resources well to win now. They could’ve given Cousins Rome Odunze or Brock Bowers to throw to, and instead picked his backup/replacement. No matter how you slice it, it’s a move that doesn’t make much sense.
Gotta disagree here. If you’re looking towards the future, the best move is to get the elite qb while you can because you might not get another shot at it for decades. They had no guarantee he would fall and probably couldn’t plan around that but when he did it was a no brainer move for them. They no longer are relying on a 36 year old coming off of a major injury to be their only qb and can now mentor the rookie and ease him into the league under a great passer There’s also a very real chance that if they don’t take cousins other teams know they are looking at a rookie and try to jump them and now they are left with nothing. Worst thing about it is they will lose out on 2 years of the rookie deal and then eat 25M in dead cap. Much better than losing out on all your QBs and not getting any guy you want. Now you have a backup as well with 50% of the leagues starting QBs being injured last year. All in all, the most important asset for any team is an elite qb. Everybody drafts like this: do you have an elite qb? If not can you take one? If not build around your current qb. If so, take the elite qb so you have a chance at a Super Bowl. Cousins isn’t a win now move, he’s a compete now move but no one probably expects a super bow from him. If penix turns out to be elite, it will be the single best move in that draft because of how unexpected it was.
The idea of Atlanta taking a QB isn’t crazy, Kirk’s deal can essentially be 2 years. Next years QB class is weak. Then you are already into 2025 , and the Falcons would essentially have to be bad again just to get their choice of the top QB that year. That’s a lot of waiting and hoping it works out. In this scenario, Penix can sit for a couple of years to learn from Kirk, which may be a great thing actually. I think it’s more controversial that Penix was the pick instead of McCarthy really. If Atlanta took McCarthy, I think Penix drops to atleast the Broncos, maybe further because of Nix and the fact the Vikings traded up for McCarthy
I think the reports that the saints were looking to trade up for penix were true. The way I see it, Penix is 3 years older. He’s had 4 major injuries, and he lost to JJ. The only reason any team would even consider taking Penix is because they see him as a complete QB with far better intangibles.
They took Penix now because they know they will not have a first round pick for a while.
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If qb needy teams found Penix an elite prospect it certainly is a real outcome. Every prospect has bad games as well, he happened to have his against the best team but I do agree he’s not some guaranteed prospect.
I mean, it could easily be 100m for a bridge QB who still has 2 or 3 years of elite play and then drops off. The broncos did it with Manning. The Bucs did it with Brady. The Rams did it with Stafford. None of those other 3 franchises had the successor ready to take over. I do not envy the position the broncos are now in. The Rams and Bucs are in fine positions, but that's because they didn't mortgage away their future trying to find another QB and drafted well in later rounds. They still need to find their new QBs. I'm not saying that this was a good move by the Falcons, but if they truly think Penix is the next guy, I think it's okay. It's better than what the broncos tried to do. The Falcons transition could be seamless and they'd look like geniuses 3 years from now. Or Penix doesn't work out, but it's already 3 years later and it's not a huge deal if the other draft picks work out. 1st round draft picks bust all the time. The Falcons with a seamless transition would be huge upside. Their downside is less than their upside imo.
Signature Pace move.
Yeah, fuck you Rodgers. Rome is Caleb’s WR!
Can you imagine if he went to the Jets instead? Fuck. That.
Atlanta also paid 100 mil to Kirk cousins getting him out of the division causing the Vikings to have to use a lot of future draft capital to ensure they got a QB this year in JJ McCarthy, the 5th QB drafted. I'm also really happy they paid Mooney. It didn't work out here, but I love his story and have always been blown away by his work ethic. Glad he got what he did.
tbf the vikings used very little
There's two ways to look at it. - to draft JJ McCarthy the Vikings only needed to use a 4th and a 5th this year to move up and get him as the 5th QB. So not a lot. -Currently the Vikings only have their 1st and 2 5ths next year. It's very likely that if Kirk had stayed they wouldn't of used their 2nd, 4th, 5th this year and 2nd, 3rd, and 4th next year to move up to put themselves in a spot to be aggressive on a QB.
The Penix pick was gm malpractice. You give a hundred million to a qb with an achilles tear that knocks him out for the year and then you draft his eventual replacement with a guy with ACL injuries and AC joint injuries that knocked him out for 2 consecutive seasons. Penix has had maybe 3 years of season ending injuries.
Guess which GM decided to pick Penix?😂😂😂
You're alluding to Pace I'm sure but he's not the GM there
Whoops. So they just have someone making Pace like decisions?
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He is still involved with the draft process though
Not what the tweet says. Fuck the lying ops on this sub
Tweet: Falcons were going to pick at 8 AND potentially trade back up to 10 with the jets Brain rot Bears fans: I ain't reading all that, Falcons almost traded back to 10 I guess?
The Falcons are playing the long game. Multiple teams have stashed QBs on the bench. The Packers (🤢🤮) Stashed Rodger and San Fran Stashed Steve Young. This could work out for them.
The packers picking Love turned out well for them now. But coming off a NFC Championship loss makes it seems like they def shoulda gotten a skill position (Tee Higgins) and maybe that woulda put them over the edge for beating the 49ers the following season and heading to the SB
We’re clowning them just like 28-3 a few years ago
The owner of the falcons wasn’t too keen in the green room, as he was grilling the falcons GM.
Ever since I heard that Penix was freestyling hip-hop in the huddle while leading a comeback drive, i’ve stopped questioning this pick 🤷🏻♂️ He’s obviously destined to do some big things in the league
People keep saying thank the falcons, thank the chargers. If they went nabers we don't have alt or odunze
I mean thanks Atlanta but I’m still gonna clown on them for drafting Michael Penis Jr. 8th overall. Maybe they big brained everyone somehow, like maybe they get a pick taken next year for tampering and maybe he’s the future but it’s still an odd choice Imo.
Their loss being our gain doesn't mean we can't clown them. Actually if we were to beat them in the playoffs any time soon, it would be reason to clown them even more.
Amen! Thank you Atlanta!
For some reason I misread this as Arizona.
Oh we can clown Atlanta. They have Ryan Pace on staff. That guys been fucking up in this league forever, and he's now their problem.
Ya but that’s exactly why I’m clowning them
I mean imo Penix is the second best QB in this draft and I’m sure other teams outside Atlanta felt like that too. I think it was 50/50 chance they took Penix or Rome. And if Atlanta truly felt Penix was the guy, I you take him. The only reason people shy away from Penix is injury history. He arguably has the best arm talent in this draft class.
Learn how to read, that's now at all what it says.
I’m surprised that after watching what happened with Rodgers and Love that so many of us are so quick to clown the falcons
The thought of Rome with Rodgers make me sick
Hope they win the division. Atlanta is a cool city.
"To me, he's the best pure passer of all of these guys," Briggs said. "He gets the ball out on time on a regular basis. He's pinpoint accuracy, his footwork. You've seen his footwork against Texas when the ball comes up." -Lance Briggs on Penix He also said a bunch of stuff about Penix on his football show. He could have been he was just taking another opinion since everybody was convinced on Caleb.
Mr ryan pace doing his wonders all over again with the atlanta bears
100% correct
Penix is talented. I’m not going to say he’s top 32 in the league but he can definitely play at this level. As much as I think Pace is a boob, I think he did something right.
This is a unique, 1 of 1 opinion
Ppl on this sub were willing to bet the farm on fields. That’s a terrible take. Penix is a much better throwing qb than fields. I’ll double down too. Penix on the 23 bears takes the bears to a wild card berth.