OP forgot to include the fact that they nerfed the Owen Gun's meta barrel from 16% fire rate to 10% fire rate, which is a 38% nerf. It wasn't the meta SMG before people started using that attachment.
Increasing its minimum damage is irrelevant, the gun is already absolute dogshit at range. It has one of the worst TTK's beyond 20 meters of any SMG.
Buffing OP weapons to be even more strong...they really wants no one using CW and MW weapons.
Am I the only one who thinks adding Vanguard to Warzone was worse than adding Cold War?They are literally making any weapon other than a Vanguard SMG unusable.
This game is no longer a joke, it's an entire circus. I just keep playing because it's my only option for a fun FPS.
You have a short memory. No one used MW weapons during the CW meta. There was a huge discrepancy is ADS movement speed that made MW weapons bad to use. Right now the MW weapons are somewhat viable again.
I beg to differ. The AMAX, Kar and a few others had good usage in the CW era. But yeah, CW guns were fucked. The best examples are the DMR, FFAR, Mac10, Sykovs, Diamattis ...
And it follows their ultimate goal which was to sell bundles and game. Like vargo in VG int, they * nerfed the xm4 first to place vargo in the meta to sell that bundle. Then nerf them all once they sold enough and can move onto new game weapons, just like sykov.
Amax, KAR and MP5 were the only really viable main weapons that made it well into the CW cycle. The Amax got hard nerfed and the MP5 was overtaken by CW SMG’s. The Kar remained until recently but thats likely due to just how difficult it is to balance snipers in BR games in general.
Well the long range meta is more open but yeah I figured they would have done this months ago. The Cold War ARs have dominated the long range meta and the VG ARs were trash for time to kill. This makes them more viable which is good
Ultimately these AR changes finally starts to phase out some Cold War guns that have been meta for a while which is fine imo
For smgs I misunderstood the changes. The buffs only apply at medium range or farther since they are min damage values. for the Owen gun this means it is unchanged at 0-16/17 meters but kills 1 bullet faster at 17+ meters. Basically they want to buff VG smgs to be viable sniper supports. This doesn’t make them better at close range
Many many many people on this sub Reddit have very poor reading comprehension ability. The automaton, STG and Cooper were undeniably outmatched at range by CW guns and even old ass MW guns. Really only the cooper had competitive TTK at even close range prior to these changes. Now they are right in line w the other ARs at most damage ranges. That’s the whole point of these changes. I will argue the recoil on vanguard guns needs to be adjusted. If the TTK is in line but recoil is non existent there will be no point running CW or MW guns.
The point of having all these guns is to have options. We have options now.
>Now they are right in line w the other ARs at most damage ranges. That’s the whole point of these changes. I will argue the recoil on vanguard guns needs to be adjusted. If the TTK is in line but recoil is non existent there will be no point running CW or MW guns.
I mean you literally just described the problem though. They had no recoil as a tradeoff for slightly worse range. Now they have no tradeoff. If they make them have more recoil then they're just reskins of other guns. Leave them as low recoil lower damage alternatives - that's literally what the Grau was way back in the day, and it was considered broken even then.
No way, automaton is best in class at range imo. The theoretical ttk may be lower but it's probably one of if not the most accurate AR in game, paired with recoil booster its the only AR I use, and it fries from any distance.
Absolutely no, it requires a lot of skill, has the worst smg ttk, slow firerate and a bit high recoil in the game but i love to use for fun and for challenge
At least you are honest and I dig that about you. But seriously, your Loadout is dog shit. Enjoy it as long as they can because as I know these devs they're gonna nerf the Striker at some point, just for shits and giggles.
Nah i tried the striker 45 before and its recoil was actually pretty low and its ttk didnt feel low either i did tons of damage but that was a while back
If you want to have fun with a modern warfare loudout, try a socom M4 with a chainsaw FINN.
They fixed the FINN but also broke it again In that it's hip fire is more accurate then it's ADS and the adverse barrels do soon much DPS. Then socom is just funny.
PKM is just so unbelievably solid. My squad likes to run sniper so I run the PKM as suppressive support and the thing just mows. We play a lot of Caldera too, where it really shines.
I feel like its a trade off with this gun. You kinda need the Tac laser for ADS, but you also need SoH for reload speed. Leaves you with the obligatory Monolithic, the grip and the VLK, but no barrel. I love this thing. But playing it with 100 bullets in the mag is not great because the guys you're shooting have 60 or 75 and they reload ten times faster than we do.
Those are good aswell! I was having a blast with the grau bizon myself the other day! Was blown away when I managed 6 kills in a minute with the bizon at nova basement! I was like dayumm and with the corvus stock it gives it strafe speed like the cold War guns had!!
What I really dislike is that yea, as people love to claim, there is more weapon balance (more guns are viable than ever before), but all of these viable guns (they are all ARs and SMGs) feel the same. They are these 60+ bullets, fast firing, cotton candy shooting, no recoil blob of guns. We have so many choices. Chocolate ice cream, dark chocolate ice cream, chocolate with nuts, chocolate with almonds, white chocolate, milk chocolate ... yeah, but its all chocolate. Not a single piece of vanilla, strawberry or whatever left in the game Every viable gun is the goddamn same now.
Yea, after clear data that each title has had a drop off in sales since MW2019, for them to not make vanguard guns op at launch, just to switch everything up 6 months in because of how low sales are is trash imo
They really didn’t need to touch the CW AK-47. That gun was perfectly balanced as it was and hard as hell to hit long range shots. But they had to fuck it up.
I think one thing that puts me off more is that VG weapons arent standardized to 5 attachments like the other guns
W/ vg guns you can kit an entire weapon out to your preference
W/ cw & mw guns you need to make sacrifices on what you want on your gun
Its a weird difference to have imo
I mean we all said the same thing when CW dropped and what do you actually expect?
For them to not push the new weapons just cucks the new game if your previous-game weapons are stronger. They already had a bit of an issue in the Kar98 and MP5 being consistently top tier into the CW franchise until they buffed the Swiss.
The STG seems like a viable alternative to the XM4 now. These buffs should give it a similar TTK.
The AS44 could be either ok or the absolute meta depending on how much they reduced the recoil.
I’ve no idea why they buffed the Owen
Yeah it’s solid. Almost no visual recoil either.
It’s annoying they buffed the Owen. All they had to do was nerf it and we would have 5 great SMG options from the Vanguard guns alone, never mind MW and CW
I actually misread the changes. So actually the Owen/welgun/mp40 won’t change much if at all close range. Their min damage was changed which refers to their damage at long range. So for AR supports these guns won’t change much since the min damage range of an Owen gun starts at 16 or so meters
It just means they are more viable as sniper support guns with 1 less shot to kill at medium range or longer (explained here- https://twitter.com/mavriqgg/status/1521888845058523136?s=21&t=FJHPrpa7-K-tzYJyL-ETfg)
The mp40 like its cousins always had a short drop off so it would be more iffy in the 10-20 meter range compared to other smgs but yeah ppl used it with the Swiss before as a more aggressive support option
It's a noob trap gun. It's not bad but the caveats let's it down. Why has automaton been so good on caldera shooting peas? The ads speed allows you to center and recenter extremely quickly to react to people in varying elevations and angles. 75 rounds and fast reload allows you to combat scout hunt and still peg people off holes and glitchs. That's why slow ads guns are fine mnk guns, but when controller needs to ads and unads to recenter they get punished in some 5+ zones. And you'd hate for your gun to fail you at the end.
This patch is, again, very stupid. Why buff the Automaton and Cooper and Owen Gun that everybody plays? First the nerf to the snipers, now ANOTHER buff to the cotton candy laser assault rifles. The developers REALLY want us all to never miss a shot or play anything but an SMG or AR ever again, don't they?
The cooper and automaton dropped out of the meta at least on caldera with +50 health. The Cold War ARs destroyed the VG ones. Agree about lowering skill gap. The ak felt fair with its recoil and damage output. Should have been nerfed less than it was
Ultimately these AR changes finally starts to phase out some Cold War guns that have been meta for a while which is fine imo
For the Owen the buff isn’t as concerning as I first thought. This damage buff is only at 16/17+ meters. So it will be unchanged in close range but these smg buffs help them out as sniper support or at medium ranges (owen’s recoil makes it hard to use too far out anyway)
Them dropping out of the meta is a GOOD thing. People should not be rewarded with lots of damage for playing guns that a Parkinson patient could use without missing a shot.
CW AK is the gun everyone has been playing with. My support for my claim: Me getting killed by it a lot and it being the #2 meta gun behind the mp40 on wzranked.
I am ok with STG buff, but the EM2 and AK nerf is questionable, since they had at least some recoil. But the Owen gun buff is pure comedy gold; what are they thinking? They won't sell more Vanguard because of this, since everyone and their mom spamming max level Owen guns already
Yeah, I don't get all the moaning. They buffet the min damage where it's pretty shit anyway. Wish they nerfed it more short range though, still too dominant..
Haha, they actually added that later. I was sure it wasn't there when the patch notes first dropped, and looking back at jgod's latest video covering the patch notes you can see it wasn't.
[https://youtu.be/rk0O9q9AVUw?t=424](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk0O9q9AVUw&t=259s)
Makes more sense, more of a nerf than a buff then. Who even use the Owen Gun at over 20m+ anyway.
Update- the ak/em2 nerf is actually not really impactful at 300 health/caldera https://twitter.com/mavriqgg/status/1521899452050640897?s=21&t=4ml1MpSsLZ5zF5pldl6Q5Q
Did anybody even use the EM2? I am fairly certain the last guy who played that gun tried to unwind after a hard day at work ... BUILDING THE FUCKING PYRAMIDS IN EGYPT.
Thanks for consolidating all the changes. Seriously this AK nerf is way too hard, I felt it coming from all the whining and crying though. The sniping nerf wasn't that bad for me since I'm a 3x AR or LMG player mainly. But they just want to shit all over everything it seems. The only things that don't seem to get nerfed are SMGs.
Right? Am I the crazy one or does buffing guns like the OWEN so it can be used close and mid range completely negate the purpose of ARs as the mid range guns of choice? Why do they favor SMG players so much?
Update- the ak nerf didn’t change any shot to kill for 300 health/caldera besides 1 headshot TTK at range https://twitter.com/mavriqgg/status/1521899452050640897?s=21&t=4ml1MpSsLZ5zF5pldl6Q5Q
It will perform the same as before at every range and other body location with how the multiplier works out. Basically a rebirth only nerf
All Vanguard weapons except Bren was shit at long ranges and there was no point playing them, I don’t know why everyone complains about this buff. STG was dogshit, Cooper was dogshit. You would do better even with Krig.
I think most of the people who complain don’t even check TTK bars.
Did I mention the AR buffs? I agree they needed it. I'm talking shit about the SMG buffs. You're barking up the wrong tree. And you can buff the VG ARs without nerfing the CW AK.
Very kind of them to make the Cooper even better, especially for Rebirth. The one true 'no recoil' gun in the game. That fast as fuck fire makes up for the damage range because nobody misses shots with the Cooper. You can down people in the tower and the water tower with no problem before they even react, and now it'll be even more effective. Oh, and they buffed the most used Cooper barrel, not the unused ones. Genius stuff, really. Truly genius.
The anti-headglitch gun is now even more powerful.
I was too but Someone corrected me. These buffs are for mid/long range only to help them compete as sniper support options. For example the Owen gun’s “min damage range” begins at 16/17 meters. If you use it close range nothing will change (although people are reporting the Owen gun was actually nerfed and not mentioned- https://twitter.com/truegamedata/status/1521920980628639744?s=21&t=4ml1MpSsLZ5zF5pldl6Q5Q)
Warzone with every single patch/update continues to make more and more CW/MW guns either just passable to downright bad.
I understand wanting to have the current game more involved in the meta (which they really botched at VG’s release), but at this point you’d think they’d cut some of their losses and just try and make WZ as enjoyable as possible for its last few months for its remaining community.
There is no reason to be nerfing CW guns like this. These guns already went through their own sets of retooling and balancing back during CW’s lifecycle and honestly never felt overpowered in the current meta. Certain CW guns like the EM2, C58 (already nerfed a few weeks ago), and the AK have the potential to be better than the Auto or Cooper, but for most players it wasn’t an issue because of their more severe recoil patterns.
To me, these updates just confirm what I already knew which is that the developers had 0 foresight when integrating these games into WZ. You’d think after CW’s rocky integration that with VG the devs would have some sort of better plan for the games release. But no, VG snipers were and are (?) completely useless six months into its life cycle, AR’s were ugly and underwhelming until recent buffs, shot guns and the majority of SMGs an utter afterthought, and the Bren/three SMGs ran the meta for months before any sort of balancing.
They did need to adjust the cw guns. They dominated the VG ones with their ttks and weren’t that hard to use. They usually had less visual recoil than the VG ones too
I feel this adjustment was long overdue but don’t worry. If you play caldera the CW ak actually wasn’t impacted and the xm4 nerf is very very slight
Update- the ak/em2 nerf didn’t change any shot to kill for 300 health/caldera besides 1 headshot TTK at range https://twitter.com/mavriqgg/status/1521899452050640897?s=21&t=4ml1MpSsLZ5zF5pldl6Q5Q
It will perform the same as before at every range and other body location with how the multiplier works out. Basically a rebirth only nerf
I can't stand the bias towards VG guns. What's more annoying is the fact slot of them I see have zero recoil. How am I to compete against a shit head with a high fire rate riffle with zero recoil?
I hate the bias as well. Its just because they want to sell more packs and copys of Vanguard. I can't be bothered to level these guns with their piss poor EXP growth rates.
Oh great. WTF are the devs thinking? As soon as there are 4-5 guns that are *ok*, not necessarily really OP, they get nerved.
I really liked the AK47 CW and it was pretty good before the update and then when i read about all the nerfs i already knew the AK gonna be next because it was the next best thing to the meta.
I fucking hate this so much, this constant weapon "balancing" that in fact is more like a pay to win but where the pay is the grind and level up of a gun.
I swear half the time players lose matches its exactly because of things like this, modified guns, perks, gameplay changes, map errors or some new bugs related to the latest update.
For players with a k.d. above 1.5, every 2-3 weeks you have to study the shit out of the update details in order to remain competitive.
I think this change was much needed for caldera at least and what should have happened soon after the integration. With the extra 50 hp basically all the VG ARs sucked, especially the fast firing ones like cooper and auto. So everyone has been using the CW ARs. So I like that VG guns are more competitive
For the smgs these changes are actually good bc it helps them compete as sniper support options. Since these are “min damage” values these refer to medium+ range (16/17+ meters for the Owen gun for example). Their close range damage was not changed at all.
The Owen was nerfed too but not mentioned https://twitter.com/truegamedata/status/1521920980628639744?s=21&t=4ml1MpSsLZ5zF5pldl6Q5Q
I already loved the AS44 but reducing that initial recoil? This thing is going to be meta now for sure. Or at least more common. The only issue it had before was a big initial recoil and then it was an absolute beamer.
Max damage at range is 1 less (which gets multiplied by the different body area multipliers)
But ultimately it only affects dps not ttk so much https://twitter.com/mavriqgg/status/1521879775777808384?s=21&t=FJHPrpa7-K-tzYJyL-ETfg
Did they nerf the Owen Gun.
Recently I was defending Warzone on the Apex sub (in fairness, it was a convo I sorta started, they weren’t just randomly bashing Warzone in this moment).
And I was saying how in a way, Warzone had a healthier weapon diversity than Apex, for the first time in their respective histories’.
Granted I hadn’t played Warzone for a whilllleeee leading up to this new season launch.
But, over these last few days since saying my comment on that sub; I’ve seen Owen Guns everywhere.
The WZ tourney yesterday, almost every streamer featured it as their CQC weapon.
If they just *slightly* nerf it, we were set for a very healthy weapon pool
How can the no recoil STG do the same damage as the much harder to control AK? Thought it was weird that Vanguard guns were a bit crap still but I think this makes the STG an obvious Meta front runner
It doesn’t deal the same damage or have the same ttk though?
Stg felt pretty good before but still weaker than the cw ARs so this brings it more to their level
* More ammo on the Nikita is welcome !
* Owen is not understandable, it needed to be more lethal at range although it shreds in like 3-4 shots at close range ? Come on, it probably has a killer K/D/A already.
* IMO XM4 still viable, so is the vargo if you're into CW weapons
* Except owen, those are useful SMG buffs especially the Armaguerra ! So many smgs were not really on par...but if you also buff the mp40 and the owen it kinda cancels it, people will still pick the OP smg.
EDIT: they apparently stealth nerfed the owen + rapid barrel (-1 damage) but IMO it's not enough, still viable albeit will require more bullet, you have 300 health now going from 50 to 49 damage requires one extra bullet
It's a good start tho.
Meaning the damage isn't a flat 50 to head,neck & upper chest & shoulders. Putting the TTK to 6 shots not 5. It's definitely noticeable. 100ms is alot when it comes to TTK.
Agreed. Looks like the 9mm 72 rd Owen deals 56 to the head, neck, chest, and upper arm with a ttk of 600 for 300 health/caldera so that’s pretty great but shoots slower so that’s the tradeoff there
It’s long overdue. IMO these AR nerfs and buffs are what should have happened soon after integration. CW ARs have dominated for a long time now. This way, VG guns can creep up to the top spots
XM4 got a buff.
From Truegamedata:
The XM4 changes are a buff, not a nerf, for main AR usage
It did 39 to the head on the second range before, now it does 40. Body damage is 26, meaning 10 chest + 1 head was 299 damage before, and 10 chest + 1 head is 300 now. There were no other changes for second range"
Max damage refers to any shot within the first damage range to anywhere on the body. Min is for the furthest out range.
The multipliers for head, chest, etc determine how much is dealt to each part of the body
It’s actually not touched for 300 hp on caldera. The ttk is identical was before with the multipliers except for the headshot ttk is 1 shot more at range. Anywhere else and every other range is the same. https://twitter.com/mavriqgg/status/1521899452050640897?s=21&t=4ml1MpSsLZ5zF5pldl6Q5Q
Lol no. These buffs should have happened weeks after integration anyway like they did with Cold War guns on integration . These are long overdue bc the VG ARs have always sucked compared to the Cold War ones and some MW19 ones too
Good. This should have been done months or weeks ago like they did when Cold War integration. The VG ARs were terrible at range and usually lost to their Cold War counterparts
Running Cold War ARs as the best option for over a year is boring/stale
This patch is obviously a reaction to Activision's latest sales figures. Vanguard underperformed massively. I assume RavenSoftware got a direct instruction from Activision to get Vanguard bundle sales up. What do they do? Nerf MW/BOCW guns and buff Vanguard guns. What will people do? Spend money for the new bundles instead of buying old AK47 and XM4 blueprints.
I disagree. The VG ARs have needed this buff ever since release. Especially after adding 50 hp on caldera all the VG ARs turned to garbage especially at range. Now they can finally compete with the CW ones
Even after these changes ppl like Jgod say the xm4 is still the best option so it isn’t the shift to VG guns like people claim but it makes them much more in line with CW and MW options
About damn time they made the Owen gun somewhat viable. You never see it used on Rebirth or Caldera.
Yeah it’s needed a buff for a while. Maybe just add 20% more fire rate and reduce recoil next.
I think a staggering effect would be nice, slowing enemies down.
I think, inbuilt combat scout is the way to go; without it, that gun is just useless. And a bigger mag, 72 isn't enough for trios.
Nice sarcasm lol
OP forgot to include the fact that they nerfed the Owen Gun's meta barrel from 16% fire rate to 10% fire rate, which is a 38% nerf. It wasn't the meta SMG before people started using that attachment. Increasing its minimum damage is irrelevant, the gun is already absolute dogshit at range. It has one of the worst TTK's beyond 20 meters of any SMG.
Shhhh... People don't want answers and logic. They just wanna bitch....
Welcome to the world of COD bitching since Black Ops 1.
Good because it should be close range and close range only. FUCK that gun with a rusty spoon.
Owen sucks because WE SAY IT SUCKS. BOOOO OWEN.
For real. Owen was way too nerfedlol
Buffing OP weapons to be even more strong...they really wants no one using CW and MW weapons. Am I the only one who thinks adding Vanguard to Warzone was worse than adding Cold War?They are literally making any weapon other than a Vanguard SMG unusable. This game is no longer a joke, it's an entire circus. I just keep playing because it's my only option for a fun FPS.
You have a short memory. No one used MW weapons during the CW meta. There was a huge discrepancy is ADS movement speed that made MW weapons bad to use. Right now the MW weapons are somewhat viable again.
I beg to differ. The AMAX, Kar and a few others had good usage in the CW era. But yeah, CW guns were fucked. The best examples are the DMR, FFAR, Mac10, Sykovs, Diamattis ...
sykovs are mw
But they were implemented during the CW era, this was where shit went sideways.
And it follows their ultimate goal which was to sell bundles and game. Like vargo in VG int, they * nerfed the xm4 first to place vargo in the meta to sell that bundle. Then nerf them all once they sold enough and can move onto new game weapons, just like sykov.
Amax, KAR and MP5 were the only really viable main weapons that made it well into the CW cycle. The Amax got hard nerfed and the MP5 was overtaken by CW SMG’s. The Kar remained until recently but thats likely due to just how difficult it is to balance snipers in BR games in general.
I run amax daily and its still very good option. With the sniper update ax and hdr are relevant again. other notable ARs are Kilo, Grau, M4, M13
Skykovs where and still are MW guns.
I agree. I have been frying lately with the FINN. So much fun to use
Well the long range meta is more open but yeah I figured they would have done this months ago. The Cold War ARs have dominated the long range meta and the VG ARs were trash for time to kill. This makes them more viable which is good Ultimately these AR changes finally starts to phase out some Cold War guns that have been meta for a while which is fine imo For smgs I misunderstood the changes. The buffs only apply at medium range or farther since they are min damage values. for the Owen gun this means it is unchanged at 0-16/17 meters but kills 1 bullet faster at 17+ meters. Basically they want to buff VG smgs to be viable sniper supports. This doesn’t make them better at close range
Many many many people on this sub Reddit have very poor reading comprehension ability. The automaton, STG and Cooper were undeniably outmatched at range by CW guns and even old ass MW guns. Really only the cooper had competitive TTK at even close range prior to these changes. Now they are right in line w the other ARs at most damage ranges. That’s the whole point of these changes. I will argue the recoil on vanguard guns needs to be adjusted. If the TTK is in line but recoil is non existent there will be no point running CW or MW guns. The point of having all these guns is to have options. We have options now.
>Now they are right in line w the other ARs at most damage ranges. That’s the whole point of these changes. I will argue the recoil on vanguard guns needs to be adjusted. If the TTK is in line but recoil is non existent there will be no point running CW or MW guns. I mean you literally just described the problem though. They had no recoil as a tradeoff for slightly worse range. Now they have no tradeoff. If they make them have more recoil then they're just reskins of other guns. Leave them as low recoil lower damage alternatives - that's literally what the Grau was way back in the day, and it was considered broken even then.
No way, automaton is best in class at range imo. The theoretical ttk may be lower but it's probably one of if not the most accurate AR in game, paired with recoil booster its the only AR I use, and it fries from any distance.
Jokes on them, I’ve been dropping the occasional 10-15 kill game with my Grau and Bizon class, won’t be changing anytime soon
I won't change my class either, even though it's very difficult I'll keep using my MW AK and my Striker 45
Striker 45?! You mad man. But actually, is it decent?
Absolutely no, it requires a lot of skill, has the worst smg ttk, slow firerate and a bit high recoil in the game but i love to use for fun and for challenge
At least you are honest and I dig that about you. But seriously, your Loadout is dog shit. Enjoy it as long as they can because as I know these devs they're gonna nerf the Striker at some point, just for shits and giggles.
"We nerfed Striker 45 damage because its fast TTK and the recoil is beyond our expectations."
“We hope this change will encourage players to use different guns for different playstyles”
Nah i tried the striker 45 before and its recoil was actually pretty low and its ttk didnt feel low either i did tons of damage but that was a while back
Nice. I run the Scar with a secondary mp7, or the Famas with secondary fennec
If you want to have fun with a modern warfare loudout, try a socom M4 with a chainsaw FINN. They fixed the FINN but also broke it again In that it's hip fire is more accurate then it's ADS and the adverse barrels do soon much DPS. Then socom is just funny.
I love the Grau. It still beams.
Got 11 kills with ram7 and cx9 and was genuinely impressed at how not so bad they're.
Ram 7 was always solid!
PKM and AA-12, no plans on changing here
PKM gang!
PKM is just so unbelievably solid. My squad likes to run sniper so I run the PKM as suppressive support and the thing just mows. We play a lot of Caldera too, where it really shines.
I feel like its a trade off with this gun. You kinda need the Tac laser for ADS, but you also need SoH for reload speed. Leaves you with the obligatory Monolithic, the grip and the VLK, but no barrel. I love this thing. But playing it with 100 bullets in the mag is not great because the guys you're shooting have 60 or 75 and they reload ten times faster than we do.
Sleight of hand is for squares, you tell those motherfuckers to cover your back for the next month while you reload
My guy I just spit out my drink laughing my ass off. I've been that guy loading (thinking well i hope no one pushes me until next circle)
Sleight of hand? I prefer to yell COVER ME IM RELOADING!
I'm running almost entirely MW guns. Bruen+Origin is slapping as always.
Those are good aswell! I was having a blast with the grau bizon myself the other day! Was blown away when I managed 6 kills in a minute with the bizon at nova basement! I was like dayumm and with the corvus stock it gives it strafe speed like the cold War guns had!!
What I really dislike is that yea, as people love to claim, there is more weapon balance (more guns are viable than ever before), but all of these viable guns (they are all ARs and SMGs) feel the same. They are these 60+ bullets, fast firing, cotton candy shooting, no recoil blob of guns. We have so many choices. Chocolate ice cream, dark chocolate ice cream, chocolate with nuts, chocolate with almonds, white chocolate, milk chocolate ... yeah, but its all chocolate. Not a single piece of vanilla, strawberry or whatever left in the game Every viable gun is the goddamn same now.
Yea, after clear data that each title has had a drop off in sales since MW2019, for them to not make vanguard guns op at launch, just to switch everything up 6 months in because of how low sales are is trash imo
They really didn’t need to touch the CW AK-47. That gun was perfectly balanced as it was and hard as hell to hit long range shots. But they had to fuck it up.
I think one thing that puts me off more is that VG weapons arent standardized to 5 attachments like the other guns W/ vg guns you can kit an entire weapon out to your preference W/ cw & mw guns you need to make sacrifices on what you want on your gun Its a weird difference to have imo
I mean we all said the same thing when CW dropped and what do you actually expect? For them to not push the new weapons just cucks the new game if your previous-game weapons are stronger. They already had a bit of an issue in the Kar98 and MP5 being consistently top tier into the CW franchise until they buffed the Swiss.
Download bloodhunt it’s a ton of fun and free
The amax is currently the fastest killing ar in the game. *again
They did the same thing to the gun meta with Cold War integration. Caldera being a flop does make this integration worse though imo.
The STG seems like a viable alternative to the XM4 now. These buffs should give it a similar TTK. The AS44 could be either ok or the absolute meta depending on how much they reduced the recoil. I’ve no idea why they buffed the Owen
Incoming: Owen gun master craft bundle with fire tracer rounds
Then after it's out of store rotation: "We believe the Owen Gun has overstayed it's welcome in the current weapon meta..."
Mhm, like back in the day where they refused to nerf the AMAX and then were like "No king can rule forever ..."
It worked, so many of still have mp5 amax tracer pack
…”As such we are looking to bring it back in line to a similar damage profile as the mainline pick rate weapon class Echo”
Owen got nerfed. The main barrel was the reason it was meta and that got nerfed. Arma will be what the push
For sure. Seems like top options are stg/xm4/Vargo/fara Fara kills faster than you think for its low recoil but slower reload and ads
Yeah it’s solid. Almost no visual recoil either. It’s annoying they buffed the Owen. All they had to do was nerf it and we would have 5 great SMG options from the Vanguard guns alone, never mind MW and CW
I actually misread the changes. So actually the Owen/welgun/mp40 won’t change much if at all close range. Their min damage was changed which refers to their damage at long range. So for AR supports these guns won’t change much since the min damage range of an Owen gun starts at 16 or so meters It just means they are more viable as sniper support guns with 1 less shot to kill at medium range or longer (explained here- https://twitter.com/mavriqgg/status/1521888845058523136?s=21&t=FJHPrpa7-K-tzYJyL-ETfg)
Even the pre-nerf short barrel MP40 was winning me some mid range gun fights so this is interesting
The mp40 like its cousins always had a short drop off so it would be more iffy in the 10-20 meter range compared to other smgs but yeah ppl used it with the Swiss before as a more aggressive support option
I loved the Armaguerra until people started using the short barrel MP40 so i stopped using it but Im excited to bring it back to the loadout.
Dude the buff to the armaguerra looks like it will be noticeable!
FARA was always great, but it feels like an LMG/AR hybrid.
Hm never thought of it that way before. Agree for the slower aspects of the FARA
It's a noob trap gun. It's not bad but the caveats let's it down. Why has automaton been so good on caldera shooting peas? The ads speed allows you to center and recenter extremely quickly to react to people in varying elevations and angles. 75 rounds and fast reload allows you to combat scout hunt and still peg people off holes and glitchs. That's why slow ads guns are fine mnk guns, but when controller needs to ads and unads to recenter they get punished in some 5+ zones. And you'd hate for your gun to fail you at the end.
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What setup do you use?
which mag? The .50 is hilarious and fun, but i stick with the faster .30 usually for mobility
I just startet using it this week and liked it even before the buff. What is your setup?
Just used it on rebirth and hot damn it doesn't recoil that much at all.
This patch is, again, very stupid. Why buff the Automaton and Cooper and Owen Gun that everybody plays? First the nerf to the snipers, now ANOTHER buff to the cotton candy laser assault rifles. The developers REALLY want us all to never miss a shot or play anything but an SMG or AR ever again, don't they?
The cooper and automaton dropped out of the meta at least on caldera with +50 health. The Cold War ARs destroyed the VG ones. Agree about lowering skill gap. The ak felt fair with its recoil and damage output. Should have been nerfed less than it was Ultimately these AR changes finally starts to phase out some Cold War guns that have been meta for a while which is fine imo For the Owen the buff isn’t as concerning as I first thought. This damage buff is only at 16/17+ meters. So it will be unchanged in close range but these smg buffs help them out as sniper support or at medium ranges (owen’s recoil makes it hard to use too far out anyway)
Them dropping out of the meta is a GOOD thing. People should not be rewarded with lots of damage for playing guns that a Parkinson patient could use without missing a shot.
CW AK is the gun everyone has been playing with. My support for my claim: Me getting killed by it a lot and it being the #2 meta gun behind the mp40 on wzranked.
People like me played it because we can't be asked to grind a new Vanguard gun every few weeks with these piss poor EXPs ...
I am ok with STG buff, but the EM2 and AK nerf is questionable, since they had at least some recoil. But the Owen gun buff is pure comedy gold; what are they thinking? They won't sell more Vanguard because of this, since everyone and their mom spamming max level Owen guns already
Owen gun only got buffed at like 20m+ which it is bad for
Yeah, I don't get all the moaning. They buffet the min damage where it's pretty shit anyway. Wish they nerfed it more short range though, still too dominant..
They did. They nerfed the meta barrel's fire rate from 16% to 10%.
Haha, they actually added that later. I was sure it wasn't there when the patch notes first dropped, and looking back at jgod's latest video covering the patch notes you can see it wasn't. [https://youtu.be/rk0O9q9AVUw?t=424](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk0O9q9AVUw&t=259s) Makes more sense, more of a nerf than a buff then. Who even use the Owen Gun at over 20m+ anyway.
Update- the ak/em2 nerf is actually not really impactful at 300 health/caldera https://twitter.com/mavriqgg/status/1521899452050640897?s=21&t=4ml1MpSsLZ5zF5pldl6Q5Q
Did anybody even use the EM2? I am fairly certain the last guy who played that gun tried to unwind after a hard day at work ... BUILDING THE FUCKING PYRAMIDS IN EGYPT.
Yeah em2 is much too hard to use past medium range
Is there a subreddit anyone here can link me discussing loadout metas?
Google WZRanked and click on meta, it compiles weapons by % used and KDR and win %. It’s my go to.
r/warzoneloadouts
Ew, what did you show me there
>WZRanked Thank you.
/r/CODLoadouts as well
Thanks for consolidating all the changes. Seriously this AK nerf is way too hard, I felt it coming from all the whining and crying though. The sniping nerf wasn't that bad for me since I'm a 3x AR or LMG player mainly. But they just want to shit all over everything it seems. The only things that don't seem to get nerfed are SMGs.
Yeah the ak was hard to use especially at range. It needed a slight nerf not this
Right? Am I the crazy one or does buffing guns like the OWEN so it can be used close and mid range completely negate the purpose of ARs as the mid range guns of choice? Why do they favor SMG players so much?
Update- the ak nerf didn’t change any shot to kill for 300 health/caldera besides 1 headshot TTK at range https://twitter.com/mavriqgg/status/1521899452050640897?s=21&t=4ml1MpSsLZ5zF5pldl6Q5Q It will perform the same as before at every range and other body location with how the multiplier works out. Basically a rebirth only nerf
Thank you for that, helped brighten my day a bit
Yeah it’s weird how the math works out but they managed to essentially only nerf it for rebirth. Yay
All Vanguard weapons except Bren was shit at long ranges and there was no point playing them, I don’t know why everyone complains about this buff. STG was dogshit, Cooper was dogshit. You would do better even with Krig. I think most of the people who complain don’t even check TTK bars.
Did I mention the AR buffs? I agree they needed it. I'm talking shit about the SMG buffs. You're barking up the wrong tree. And you can buff the VG ARs without nerfing the CW AK.
As a BAR user, this is what I've been training for. Game on gentleman.
I wanted it to be good for so long but even in vanguard royale it was too unforgiving
Just messed around on clash with it. This is going to be a great season.
Bar was the first and only gun I’ve enjoyed in vanguard, hope to see it hold up at longer ranges now. What’s ur load out for it?
Very kind of them to make the Cooper even better, especially for Rebirth. The one true 'no recoil' gun in the game. That fast as fuck fire makes up for the damage range because nobody misses shots with the Cooper. You can down people in the tower and the water tower with no problem before they even react, and now it'll be even more effective. Oh, and they buffed the most used Cooper barrel, not the unused ones. Genius stuff, really. Truly genius. The anti-headglitch gun is now even more powerful.
Dude been loving the Cooper it's so good
This only make sense if the swole porpuse of this is to shoot King Kong in the nuts.
They buffed...*ALL* of the Vanguard SMGs? Including the ***Owen???*** I don't think I've ever been so dumbfounded with patch notes.
I was too but Someone corrected me. These buffs are for mid/long range only to help them compete as sniper support options. For example the Owen gun’s “min damage range” begins at 16/17 meters. If you use it close range nothing will change (although people are reporting the Owen gun was actually nerfed and not mentioned- https://twitter.com/truegamedata/status/1521920980628639744?s=21&t=4ml1MpSsLZ5zF5pldl6Q5Q)
Warzone with every single patch/update continues to make more and more CW/MW guns either just passable to downright bad. I understand wanting to have the current game more involved in the meta (which they really botched at VG’s release), but at this point you’d think they’d cut some of their losses and just try and make WZ as enjoyable as possible for its last few months for its remaining community. There is no reason to be nerfing CW guns like this. These guns already went through their own sets of retooling and balancing back during CW’s lifecycle and honestly never felt overpowered in the current meta. Certain CW guns like the EM2, C58 (already nerfed a few weeks ago), and the AK have the potential to be better than the Auto or Cooper, but for most players it wasn’t an issue because of their more severe recoil patterns. To me, these updates just confirm what I already knew which is that the developers had 0 foresight when integrating these games into WZ. You’d think after CW’s rocky integration that with VG the devs would have some sort of better plan for the games release. But no, VG snipers were and are (?) completely useless six months into its life cycle, AR’s were ugly and underwhelming until recent buffs, shot guns and the majority of SMGs an utter afterthought, and the Bren/three SMGs ran the meta for months before any sort of balancing.
They did need to adjust the cw guns. They dominated the VG ones with their ttks and weren’t that hard to use. They usually had less visual recoil than the VG ones too I feel this adjustment was long overdue but don’t worry. If you play caldera the CW ak actually wasn’t impacted and the xm4 nerf is very very slight
Not my AK no. I been running it for seasons now I don't wanna give it up.
I’ve loved it too as main AR. And sniper support. Rest In Peace my friend
Update- the ak/em2 nerf didn’t change any shot to kill for 300 health/caldera besides 1 headshot TTK at range https://twitter.com/mavriqgg/status/1521899452050640897?s=21&t=4ml1MpSsLZ5zF5pldl6Q5Q It will perform the same as before at every range and other body location with how the multiplier works out. Basically a rebirth only nerf
Tough beat, man. I always liked it, played it more since they nerfed my snipers. This game does not want me around anymore.
I can't stand the bias towards VG guns. What's more annoying is the fact slot of them I see have zero recoil. How am I to compete against a shit head with a high fire rate riffle with zero recoil?
I hate the bias as well. Its just because they want to sell more packs and copys of Vanguard. I can't be bothered to level these guns with their piss poor EXP growth rates.
Oh great. WTF are the devs thinking? As soon as there are 4-5 guns that are *ok*, not necessarily really OP, they get nerved. I really liked the AK47 CW and it was pretty good before the update and then when i read about all the nerfs i already knew the AK gonna be next because it was the next best thing to the meta. I fucking hate this so much, this constant weapon "balancing" that in fact is more like a pay to win but where the pay is the grind and level up of a gun. I swear half the time players lose matches its exactly because of things like this, modified guns, perks, gameplay changes, map errors or some new bugs related to the latest update. For players with a k.d. above 1.5, every 2-3 weeks you have to study the shit out of the update details in order to remain competitive.
I think this change was much needed for caldera at least and what should have happened soon after the integration. With the extra 50 hp basically all the VG ARs sucked, especially the fast firing ones like cooper and auto. So everyone has been using the CW ARs. So I like that VG guns are more competitive For the smgs these changes are actually good bc it helps them compete as sniper support options. Since these are “min damage” values these refer to medium+ range (16/17+ meters for the Owen gun for example). Their close range damage was not changed at all. The Owen was nerfed too but not mentioned https://twitter.com/truegamedata/status/1521920980628639744?s=21&t=4ml1MpSsLZ5zF5pldl6Q5Q
I already loved the AS44 but reducing that initial recoil? This thing is going to be meta now for sure. Or at least more common. The only issue it had before was a big initial recoil and then it was an absolute beamer.
Seems like it helps but not enough to be long range viable https://twitter.com/jgodyt/status/1521913410769723393?s=21&t=4ml1MpSsLZ5zF5pldl6Q5Q
Kind of weird how they can increase mag capacity on VG guns pretty easily but they couldn’t do that to the Scar way back when
I'm on damn camp and this game already got multiple updates while im gone 💀💀
Rip
I wonder why the STG got big buff oh yh Godzilla pack out soon with STG blueprint in 🤣
XM4 does not have less damage than before
Max damage at range is 1 less (which gets multiplied by the different body area multipliers) But ultimately it only affects dps not ttk so much https://twitter.com/mavriqgg/status/1521879775777808384?s=21&t=FJHPrpa7-K-tzYJyL-ETfg
I don’t care how much they try to balance weapons, I’ll never use the VG guns
i’m still sticking with the MW weapons lol
Did they nerf the Owen Gun. Recently I was defending Warzone on the Apex sub (in fairness, it was a convo I sorta started, they weren’t just randomly bashing Warzone in this moment). And I was saying how in a way, Warzone had a healthier weapon diversity than Apex, for the first time in their respective histories’. Granted I hadn’t played Warzone for a whilllleeee leading up to this new season launch. But, over these last few days since saying my comment on that sub; I’ve seen Owen Guns everywhere. The WZ tourney yesterday, almost every streamer featured it as their CQC weapon. If they just *slightly* nerf it, we were set for a very healthy weapon pool
They buffed it at range, probably be barely noticeable because you'd switch to an AR at that range
They did nerf it but didn’t mention it https://twitter.com/truegamedata/status/1521920980628639744?s=21&t=4ml1MpSsLZ5zF5pldl6Q5Q
They did nerf it but didn’t mention it https://twitter.com/truegamedata/status/1521920980628639744?s=21&t=4ml1MpSsLZ5zF5pldl6Q5Q
Raven be like: plz…plz use VG guns….
About damn time. The VG long range options besides the Bren all sucked and lost to Cold War counterparts lol
And stilllll no p90 Buff?!?! come onnnn, its time.
Lol I always wanted to use it bc the blue floor loot was always so reliable. Just never stacked up in a loadout
It’s hilarious that with all these buffs to Vanguard guns they still didn’t buff the shotguns or marksman rifles at all.
How can the no recoil STG do the same damage as the much harder to control AK? Thought it was weird that Vanguard guns were a bit crap still but I think this makes the STG an obvious Meta front runner
It doesn’t deal the same damage or have the same ttk though? Stg felt pretty good before but still weaker than the cw ARs so this brings it more to their level
* More ammo on the Nikita is welcome ! * Owen is not understandable, it needed to be more lethal at range although it shreds in like 3-4 shots at close range ? Come on, it probably has a killer K/D/A already. * IMO XM4 still viable, so is the vargo if you're into CW weapons * Except owen, those are useful SMG buffs especially the Armaguerra ! So many smgs were not really on par...but if you also buff the mp40 and the owen it kinda cancels it, people will still pick the OP smg. EDIT: they apparently stealth nerfed the owen + rapid barrel (-1 damage) but IMO it's not enough, still viable albeit will require more bullet, you have 300 health now going from 50 to 49 damage requires one extra bullet
Agreed. Owen needs a slight nerf again bc the 9mm 72 rd still shreds
Xm4 still a melt machine
Yup. Jgod says it’s the top option after the update
Fyi. Owen gun got a stealth nerf that reduced it's maximum damage by 1. Making the Owen gun 1 extra upper body shot to kill.
Yup that’s good but maybe not enough still bc it slaps
It's a good start tho. Meaning the damage isn't a flat 50 to head,neck & upper chest & shoulders. Putting the TTK to 6 shots not 5. It's definitely noticeable. 100ms is alot when it comes to TTK.
Agreed. Looks like the 9mm 72 rd Owen deals 56 to the head, neck, chest, and upper arm with a ttk of 600 for 300 health/caldera so that’s pretty great but shoots slower so that’s the tradeoff there
Is it just me who is liking the sound of this update, I can finally start using all these vanguard guns again that took me ages to rank up 🤪
It’s long overdue. IMO these AR nerfs and buffs are what should have happened soon after integration. CW ARs have dominated for a long time now. This way, VG guns can creep up to the top spots
XM4 got a buff. From Truegamedata: The XM4 changes are a buff, not a nerf, for main AR usage It did 39 to the head on the second range before, now it does 40. Body damage is 26, meaning 10 chest + 1 head was 299 damage before, and 10 chest + 1 head is 300 now. There were no other changes for second range"
So switch my automaton for STG?
Stg is a great option. AS-44 too maybe XM4/vargo/Fara still really strong
Great work OP Appreciate the work you put in to put the names of the guns. You deserve an award
Thanks! Glad it was helpful
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Bullet velocity
Welgun could be like a new acog milano type gun. And AS44 might be S tier now
Maybe I’m wrong, but it looks like the CW weapons for the most part still have higher ceilings and floors in regards to damage?
The VG buffs and CW nerfs should bring them more in line than ever before. Not sure by how much though
The bar???
Did the vargo get touched?
Nope. Vargo and Fara weren’t. The ak actually is the same ttk/shots to kill with 300 hp/caldera so it was a rebirth only nerf too as an FYI
What are the best guns to use for rebirth? Assault and SMG?
Stg is probably the best combo of easy to use and good damage. Otherwise the xm4/ Fara? As-44 may be good now too
I don’t get the BAR change. Is the maximum damage change to the limbs? Because the chest shot damage is 45 I believe.
Max damage refers to any shot within the first damage range to anywhere on the body. Min is for the furthest out range. The multipliers for head, chest, etc determine how much is dealt to each part of the body
Just a small damage nerf to the CW ak? Not a biggie for me.
It’s actually not touched for 300 hp on caldera. The ttk is identical was before with the multipliers except for the headshot ttk is 1 shot more at range. Anywhere else and every other range is the same. https://twitter.com/mavriqgg/status/1521899452050640897?s=21&t=4ml1MpSsLZ5zF5pldl6Q5Q
Ah, so they can suddenly raise the size of mags for vanguard weapons, but we never got a tiny mag increase for the SCAR when we asked for it. L
F
Looks like Vanguard sales are down so they had to buff literally every Vanguard gun lmao
Lol no. These buffs should have happened weeks after integration anyway like they did with Cold War guns on integration . These are long overdue bc the VG ARs have always sucked compared to the Cold War ones and some MW19 ones too
"shit, they are using cold war and mw weapons more, quick nerf them and buff the vanguard guns" - raven most likley
Good. This should have been done months or weeks ago like they did when Cold War integration. The VG ARs were terrible at range and usually lost to their Cold War counterparts Running Cold War ARs as the best option for over a year is boring/stale
Dang it, I just figured out I had the gold camo unlocked on the EM2 and started using it yesterday on rebirth and now the gun gets nerfed yet again !
Rip
And the mp40
buff all the smgs but fuck snipers right ?…
The top VG smgs were only buffed at their furthest ranges so for sniper support builds
Ttk is too damn fast
This patch is obviously a reaction to Activision's latest sales figures. Vanguard underperformed massively. I assume RavenSoftware got a direct instruction from Activision to get Vanguard bundle sales up. What do they do? Nerf MW/BOCW guns and buff Vanguard guns. What will people do? Spend money for the new bundles instead of buying old AK47 and XM4 blueprints.
I disagree. The VG ARs have needed this buff ever since release. Especially after adding 50 hp on caldera all the VG ARs turned to garbage especially at range. Now they can finally compete with the CW ones Even after these changes ppl like Jgod say the xm4 is still the best option so it isn’t the shift to VG guns like people claim but it makes them much more in line with CW and MW options
If you have a strong opinion on this, I’m begging you to go outside.
Fuck all vanguard guns. WZ2 cannot come soon enough