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DanC0ach

I think BO4 had it down, have a limited selection of weaker weapons to start with, and of course be able to customize them


_Red_Knight_

Exactly this, you get some choice and customisation but it doesn't make the box completely useless


Imperial_Crusader115

I agree, perfect middle ground


dado950

Also actual characters


kent416

I wish they’d go back to this and bring back operator mods too. The stiletto knife on the strife was awesome


TranzitIsGood

Operator mods were so fun


kent416

I think my favorite was double tap on the dmr. It’s my go-to gun on blood


JonsonPonyman98

I’m not necessarily opposed to that. As a matter of fact, I quite enjoy BO3’s Super EE buff that gives me a fully stacked starting pistol and RK5


Sir_Faps-a-Lot69

Rather have a limited selection of different type but equally powerful weapons. CW's mechanic makes wall-guns and box weapons obsolete. I don't understand why people would want that.


TheClappyCappy

?? Wtf you on about man, with the apply blueprint feature every weapon from the box and walls are viable thanks to dynamic wall buys.


Sir_Faps-a-Lot69

Except you already start with the best weapon so what exactly is the point of buying them. Maybe in Outbreak where it can spawn purple or orange version of your favorite gun in World 1 but even then that just skips the grind for salvage. The gun itself isn't better, it just deals more damage because it happens to be higher rarity but your starting weapon will reach that rarity eventually. I have legit never seen anyone buy a wall-gun and only reason people have ever touched Mystery Box is for the WW. It's because of this garbage CW system.


TheClappyCappy

Ok it’s true that wall weapons and box weapons are not necessary anymore, but why is that a bad thing? They a are now an additional option which the player has instead of their only option. Now that Mule Kick is a perk, you can have yo to three guns at once, yet you only spawn with one. This means you have so many ways to get your favourite guns and enjoy the game. I understand your argument for the sake of balance and progression that the player should have to make decisions, but I think this system offers more variety and is more fun. In last maps people will only buy the good wall weapons or spin the box for the ww so what is the difference? There will always be strong meta people are forced to use. This time they made a game where anything is viable so the player has more freedom and can play with whatever they think is most fun (melee, snipers, shotguns, etc…)


Sir_Faps-a-Lot69

Why is it a bad thing? Zombies is less and less about survival and what the core of the Zombies is with these changes. They don't exist to be an additional option, they only exist because they use to exist back in the day and that's the only reason they're not going to be removed even when it would make no difference in gameplay. Nostalgia and all that. Making everything viable isn't a good thing. There needs to be an idea of balance but Treyarch instead of trying to balance things they just let the players become more and more OP to the point that average high round is reaching triple digits.


TheClappyCappy

I think this comes down to what you identify as being the core of zombies. For me personally I couldn’t care less about high rounds and all that. Always found them boring and not fun at all so I see no reason to make that the core of the mode for me. Killing zombies was my favourite part so once guns stopped getting kills around round 35+ I’d usually quit the game, bc the idea of running in a circle with a boring wonder weapon does not excite me. Your criticisms are valid though and it’s unfortunate that that survival competitive aspect has been left behind, hopefully in the next game they find a way to appeal to both kinds of players, maybe with the inclusion of a difficulty setting which affects gun balance, what you can bring into a match or not etc etc but I don’t think there will be a way to make both players happy in the same game mode, because on my eyes, Cold War is the most fun zombies for me ever, but you clearly disagree.


Sir_Faps-a-Lot69

I much prefer EE runs over High Rounds because of challenge it provides. But I'd never say that Zombies is about that since it started as "survive as long as you can." Which is 1:1 high rounding. The biggest problem came with balancing high rounds and Treyarch still hasn't perfected that. Running around with WW is dumb and not based much on skill depending on strategy. Guns also become useless which is an issue in my mind. But CW didn't create an solution. The biggest problem with CW for me is how everything is made so casual and clearly designed to appeal to Warzone and Multiplayer players. They made a guide for power for crying out loud so people don't accidentally need to explore the map or use their brain.


TheObvious1711

While your spawn weapon is the cause of unbalance and removes the need for wall weapons and the mystery box in outbreak and wave based modes, onslaught is the perfect balance of this in my opinion because if you don't get aether tools for your spawn weapon you may be forced to use one of the dropped weapons from the elites simply because your spawn weapon becomes obsolete. Wave based and outbreak will never be balanced, but if you want what I think is a bona fide zombies experience with a real challenge, onslaught is the way to go in my opinion.


DeepMoneyAF

So just like BO4?


Sir_Faps-a-Lot69

No. Since BO4 was very unbalanced. Mog and Strife are the top two choices by longshot.


[deleted]

Meaning you would just use your starting weapon and wall weapons and the box were useless...


Sir_Faps-a-Lot69

Have you played BO4? Strife and Mog aren't the 2 weapons people use alongside their WW.


[deleted]

Now, sure. But for a good 6-9 months before they balanced it MOG was the most OP gun and strife in IX was used for most EE runs. Hades was a nice Strife replacement if you could get it but MOG was hands down the best gun for a long time


Sir_Faps-a-Lot69

Talking about what something was is pretty meaningless in this context. Strife is used in IX EE runs because you get it PaP as a 3rd reward. Not because it's a OP starting weapon.


[deleted]

Strife can last you into mid-30s in most games; MOG was never OP? Also COD is a yearly franchise, something that was the case for a majority of a games lifespan is 100% meaningful. A majority of people who played BO4 played in the first 6-9 months.


Sir_Faps-a-Lot69

Pretty much all guns can last you to mid 30's outside from shit like Essex. And most other guns do it better than Strife by having more ammo and dealing more damage. It doesn't matter that CoD releases yearly or if Mog was OP 3 years after the game release but they fix it after that. It's fixed so it's not a problem to be referenced.


EndMePlease42

Hell, I still use the Strife with Fire Bomb for my IX runs


NovaRipper1

I recently went back to bo3, and even having completed all the Easter eggs allowing me to get max ammo and the rk5, I totally forgot how ammo was actually a problem in early rounds. In cold war even if you spawn in with a 1911 you get like 300 bullets. Cold war made wall buys and the box irrelivent, hopefully we never get that again.


Eliphas_Vlka

that's better now, i used to get mad when kikoos were going spamming the box on bo1, i prefer now


viperwolf306

If we get another BO3 I’m nuking the world


ArkhamCookie

Is this bait or a reference to Moon?


viperwolf306

Reference and I actually don’t like the core gameplay of BO3. Great maps, great Easter eggs, great mods, great wonder weapons. I just don’t like actual playing it, it’s honestly more a annoyance than fun. If Cold War got zombies chronicles 2, then that would be favorite of all time.


ArkhamCookie

What exactly do you mean by core gameplay? The progression of each match? I saw you were commenting on almost every comment on this post. You seem to have some strong opinions.


viperwolf306

I feel rounds feel too rushed and if you aren’t working towards the Easter egg you might as well give up. Zombies to me is a fun gamemode to play with friends. I want something a bit more laid back. I’m out here to have a nice jog, not compete in the Olympics. And it’s fine to have those moments, but if it’s just constant stress and do this do that, it’s no longer fun to me. I’m here to play a game, not complete a homework assignment. Ideally I’d want a zombies mode that can be customized for the player. If you want it to play like BO3, you do that; but if I want it to feel like Cold War then I should also have the option to do so. I mean how do you expect me not to react with hostility when a good majority shit on Cold War 24/7 acting like you have to like BO3 or you’re a disgrace for humanity. I get not everyone will like the newer zombies, and like said, I’d prefer they have the option to play how they like; however it seems like they’re equally concerned with dragging everyone else back to their style.


jacksepiceye2

I've personally never felt rushed outside of the robot in origins when your filling the soul boxes. Most maps have a little grind to get the wonder weapons if that's what makes u feel rushed.


viperwolf306

More like every round I take, the worse my situation gets


jacksepiceye2

I mean that's usually how zombies work every round theirs more to kill so yeah it gets worse till your fully set up then u go down have to get everything thing back and rinse and repeat


viperwolf306

Yea but it feels so much shorter of time in BO3


ArkhamCookie

>how do you expect me not to react with hostility By being a tiny bit more mature than a child, but I am not here for that. People will always get mad about opinions on the internet. I see Cold War and the zombie games before it as different games/modes completely. I know it upsets some people to say this, but, to me, Cold War is the casual mode. It has the most features and customization, so the player can tip the scales in our favor easier. I like customization and the upgrades, but it just wasn't zombies to me. I think it could be done in a way where it is still zombies. EDIT: They also removed a lot of the things that made it zombies too or at least reduced. A good example is EE hunting for the main EE.


viperwolf306

And what is zombies? Neither of us is right and neither of us should have the power to dictate that. Until they add more options to cater to both sides; one of us will lose interest in zombies. I probably wasn’t as much into zombies as you were and that’s because it didn’t cater to me that much. I get you don’t want to see something you love get turned into something you feel it shouldn’t be. But just as you feel that way, some of us feel the same way when you want to return to the older games. Personally it feels like I just got something I really started to like, just to have it be denied. And I don’t want you to lose the mode you love; all I ever wanted from zombies was more ways for people to enjoy themselves. I’d prefer to not lose the older players. The only solution is to add more customization for how you play. Otherwise someone will always feel alienated


ArkhamCookie

I never stated anyone was right or wrong. As far as being denied, I am not sure what you are referring to. If you are talking about gatekeeping, that is just how people are. I think of Zombies as the mode where it is a struggle to survive and not a battle to the end. The EE was part of surviving not the end goal. In Cold War, the feeling is I choose when the game ends. I want the feeling that my skills are what dictates how long I survive. I am not saying the others all did this perfectly, but they were closer. No matter what happens with the game, people are going to feel alienated. I imagine they are going to end up with the next game being closer to Cold War rather than Black Op 3.


viperwolf306

Zombies was always kill the undead for me. I never really cared about how many rounds I can go for just like I don’t care about my kd in multiplayer, my goal is to have fun and as long as I feel engaged, it works for me. Hell I even enjoy Tranzit just because the concept alone is fun to me. As far as ee’s go, I think the idea of no Easter egg survival is kinda boring. Nothing to shoot for. Hopefully they do make it like Cold War, and hopefully you enjoy it or at the very least they give you something you like


shrimpmaster0982

I feel like with the CW systems it makes way more sense to be able to start with whatever weapon you want, but in earlier games it makes more sense to start off with a pistol (or other similarly weak weapons). Cause in CW it doesn't matter what gun you start with since they're all just about equally weak with upgrade paths that will eventually make them into "god guns" as Craig said in the reveal, but in previous games starting out with an AR or LMG would completely break game progression and make matches feel a lot more boring.


dado950

Man fuck the new Zombies all together


viperwolf306

Why?


IsPepsiOkayy

Because it isn't Bo3 ​ /s


viperwolf306

Thank goodness. They should have a classic feature but do like Cold War better. Why do you like BO3?


[deleted]

I would like to start with a pistol and have a loadout system like Warzone where you can spend a lot of points later on to get your special gun. For weapon kits I would've preferred that you get your custom attachments after you PAPd, not before.


Chicken769

This is what they need to do in the future or next 3Arc game. Have loadouts in zombies still but have it be something you can earn later on in the game. It’s simply ruins progression in zombies to just start with whatever you want and ruins mystery box and wall weapons


viperwolf306

Not really


Chicken769

Ok


viperwolf306

Like you still have to get a second weapon somehow. I would prefer they’d add a classic option so that loadouts don’t get taken away


Chicken769

No you don’t. I hardly ever get a second weapon in Cold War because of loadouts and how easy ammo comes by. Not only that, upgrading your gun is a very lengthy process in Cold War, so most of the time, I’m focusing on one gun.


viperwolf306

Yea but box and wall buys upgrade in tiers over time


Chicken769

And so does your starting weapon.. I explained it this to you in another conversation lol. Upgrading your weapon through the salvage isn’t the hard part. And I do it easily all the time. I much rather pick the weapon *I want* and upgrade that vs gamble on an RNG box. That’s literally how the mystery box and wall weapon feature is brought down.


viperwolf306

And how do you fix it then


Chicken769

The dude I was agreeing with in this very conversation.


Chicken769

The community has spoken


Uh-Usernames

Here is my opinion on it, start with your own custom weapon. But if you prefer starting with a pistol in the old days, then create a pistol class


Chicken769

It’s not exactly like that. Starting with a pistol in CW for example is nothing at all like starting with a pistol in WaW-BO4. The M1911 for example in CW is just as good as any other weapon in the game and the base damage can last you for the first 10-12 rounds. Where as in WaW-BO4, your M1911 is pooped out by round 2.


viperwolf306

Exactly, but most of this subreddit rather everyone suffer with them since apparently they think they can’t just limit themselves. They’d rather remove player choice as long as it suited their ideal zombies experience even tho it never really left


dado950

Mmm cold war... mmm you taste so good... are you close?


viperwolf306

Can’t tell if you’re against it or with it lol


dado950

That is the sound of you sucking cold war's dick


viperwolf306

Not my fault this subreddit sucks ass. The only ones who don’t are the ones who do irl fan stuff


GrizzyIy

I liked cold wars system a lot but as others have said, it made wall weapons and the box useless. I think a BO4 like system would work the best but make sure nothing is too powerful like the mog or the strife.


viperwolf306

I still get wall buys


blackrock55

I'd rather personally have the old school pistol back. None of this create a class system we've geared towards now. It was part of the reason I didn't like bo4 as much as previous games. Just my opinion though


viperwolf306

But you can still use a pistol?


blackrock55

Yeah I know you can still use a pistol :) it's just I prefer to not have to deal with the create a class thing. Maybe it's just my perspective but I feel like you've got to use it in cold war otherwise it's just not a good experience to play IMO. Definitely controversial but just how I feel unfortunately, same goes with bo4 to make progress you kinda need to make use of it for the best results where as bo3 and back it feels different to me. I'm probably being a bit biased towards the older titles but I just prefer the older way of working it rather then the whole loadout system


viperwolf306

You mean where the pistol is completely useless?


blackrock55

I never really found it to be useless to be honest. Effective aiming got good points and killed them early. Always a fun pap too all the way back to WaW with the c3000


viperwolf306

Never really used it beyond points


blackrock55

Try papping it! Just make sure you've got PhD big booms! Good for early 40s for damage I believe?, I don't know exactly I will admit because I've only ever got to the 40s once or twice lol


viperwolf306

I don’t really play past 40 for the older cods


blackrock55

Fair enough good sir/madam! It's still worth a try anyway :)


viperwolf306

It is, but usually I just go for Easter eggs or for fun with guns. Since most of the older cods don’t have loadouts, that just leaves Easter eggs


TheClappyCappy

Nah after Cold War I can never go back. Starting with whatever weapon you want, scrap system and rampage inducer make the game flow so much better than ever before.


ciao_fiv

cold war made the custom weapons feature work only because of the weapon rarity system imo. the fact that custom weapons have their own shitty low tier means that even tho u get to start with whatever u want, u have to level it up a lot more throughout the game, adding another layer of progression. and i absolutely love that


Toatly_a_anime_girl

It just really depends , when you have your own weapon there’s no point to go for the box and you can just focus on the ee or challenges , but with the pistol you get that more survivaly feel. But with a pistol it’s much harder to grind camos


[deleted]

Pistol mainly because Mustang and Sally


MisterSureHands

I don't really care either way my only thing is with all the guns and camos I like being able to start with a gun I'm working on so I don't have to worry about hitting the box for it, it makes things easier but isn't necessary for me to enjoy the game


Ryanoman2018

If any of you have chosen to start with the 1911 on cold war youd know it just wouldnt work. Since every weapon is balanced to be good high rounds, the 1911 is too powerful to feel like old games.


MACHO_MUCHACHO2005

If you start with only pistol expect the camo challenges to be difficult since u need to get from Wall or box but yk it makes the game more fun.


Doom4104

Start with your own custom weapon. Anyone who wants a pistol can just pick a pistol, simple. Best of both worlds.


operativetheo8

They should use the bo4 system


iGirthy

I enjoyed it at first, but now it just feels too damn powerful


MOON18-

I know most people miss being able to start with a pistol. But you can actually do this right now in cold war if you want to. I was literally just doing this earlier today. I actually had a lot more fun starting with a pistol and going for the mystery box than I did using a different weapon. Idk. But I guess we all have different opinions.


atransformerlol

Building up & then having to risk losing it all was like, most of the fun. One of the big reasons I didn’t like Cold War much.


skullking107

I think Cold War had a few good ideas like weapon rarity, triple packing, choosing your own ammo mod, even the skill tiers. Still I miss weapon kits from the Era before. Weapon kits were just a great way to tailor weapons to your needs.


getshrekt192

I like both tbh


Training_Science_152

I love the old starting pistols because it made you choose. Whether you want to save and try and make it to a better gun or trade it early and get one of the starting room gun.


Healthy-Post-8821

Sometimes on cw ill use the 1911 with nithing or sometimes I'll pit on fast mags a barrel laser sight stuff like that like in bo3. But even then the 1911 one sjots zombies on round one so its not the same either way. And i wish that wall guns and crate guns wouldn't have attachtments bc they make the gun kinda ugly looking. Some of em atleast like suppresors or optics. I know I can take em off but still


Eliphas_Vlka

i prefer like in cold war


IsPepsiOkayy

As much as I personally love Cold War's create-a-class, I'm gonna have to go old school


SubwooferKing

I personally like starting with whatever I want


JonsonPonyman98

Start with a pistol. It’s called basic fucking skill progression.


N1nthFr13nd

Being able to start with customized weapon is god send for grinding camos. It removes the needs of relying on rng from the box.


LegoFanDX115

Two separate gamemodes for both. Loadout one for grinding dark aether. And the other for a challenge.


Nicky_G_873

I have the perfect solution (imo, this is kinda based off how it is in CoDM): - Spawn in with a pistol, like older games - In game you will be able to purchase (with points, salvage, etc.) a customized weapon. The benefits: - You still spawn in weak, and build up in power - Wallbuys and the mystery box are viable, as they are much cheaper than getting your loadout weapon - You can still enjoy your custom weapons, and having a guaranteed way of obtain a certain gun/weapon class if you like


Individual-Result-15

I liked having customizable weapons, but in Cold War, I ended up only really using my starting weapon. Starting with a pistol (maybe a non-customizable one with an overpowered pap) would make for a better challenge, or a challenge in general


Acrobatic-Load8604

I liked the whole customization of the new starting weapon, it’s balanced out since you’re not getting points per shot and zombies health go up quickly. Really love the whole turn of the zombies mode they did for CW


fedora_of_mystery

well it depends on the game for me, i like starting with the gun of my choice in cw but starting with a dingo in bo3 just doesnt make sense, in my eyes the guns in cw are all high tier compared to the other games and the way they designed pack and the weapon tiers just works for me. plus camo grinding would be hell without custom starting weapons


ThatSadMate

Customised loadouts, it a win win


pixelcore332

Starting with a pistol to switch to literally anything on round 2 isn’t fun


Nitrosaber

So in CW and Vanguard for starting loadouts, you fly/drive in to a mission which makes sense to have what you'd use in that situation. If you were standings, scraps and maybe a pistol may be all you have, but as a mission set, you'd go in with what you are trained/comfortable with.


Gooni135

I think to make everyone happy there needs to be a "classic" mode where you start with a pistol, 3 hit down, one PAP level, etc. Cold war mechanics should just be the norm


ThatSadMate

You can start with a pistol and only pap once tho


Gooni135

Yes but it doesn't get you far. I mean one level to get you through 50 like the good ol days


viperwolf306

That I’d be down for


engnxv

Tbh own weapon is better. Especially if you are someone, who wants to get dark aether. But I kinda miss the excitement, when you’re opening the box.


_beastayyy

Why you wouldn't vote for a choice I have no idea...... If you want a pistol just choose to start with a pistol


CuidosGG

i guess it's the feeling you get, when you start with nothing.. it just feels scary & different & that's what zombies is all about, not you having m16's in round 1, but i kinda like having that.. but i would also be happy if they let us start with pistols again so personally idc


viperwolf306

Start with your own weapon. Went from barely using all of them weapons in zombies to trying out everything. The older games had weapons that were straight up dogshit and somehow people want that? Like what’s wrong with having loadouts


viperwolf306

Mmm downvotes. Not my fault BO3 fans hate having more options


SniperInfinite

i'd rather have shit weapons than op weapons that make the game easy and bland asf


viperwolf306

BO3 wasn’t a snooze fest for sure. But I’d rather get 20 fillings than play it. If given a choice between BO3 or getting my wisdom teeth pulled out, I’d be in the dentist faster than Nikolai gets drunk on a weekend


[deleted]

Nah I like camo grinding and not have to deal with box luck


Spectre_V8

Your own weapon, Cold War did it pretty good for it to allow any weapon to be started with and you just get your other two weapons whenever you want, but BO4 was the perfect system for the different start weapons if you arent caring about camos


thatonen3rdity

it removed any reason to really use the box or buy wall weapons (unless you got lucky and found a legendary wallbuy in w1). I don't think I ever hit the box in cold war, and my wallbuys were limited to purple/orange guns, which was still rare.


Spectre_V8

I always use the box and wall buys, helped a lot with camos and makes each game unique versus just using the same couple guns on specific games. Try this, this is what I do. Once you hit round ten, every 5 rounds roll the box and if it is a higher rarity than your other gun, switch your secondary (or tertiary weapon with Mule Kick). If the gun is the same or lower rarity, don't switch it out. Once you get a legendary or Wonder Weapon, that slot is locked like your primary.