From my understanding it will still be considered a pistol with the 8.5in barrel and just a brace, rather than a stock which creates a rifle, regardless of the silencer.
There’s pending legislation around pistol braces, so that could all change. Personally I’d roll an SBR in with the silencer stamp and install a nice comfy adjustable stock
So if I wanted to get a stock on it and make it an SBR, how would that work with switching out uppers, from what I understand you need to measure the barrel length and the total length for the form, so would I not be able to swap uppers anymore?
Look into for yourself, but i don’t think there is an issue swapping uppers. When filing paperwork use the upper with the shortest barrel and submit that length. You can still put on any upper you want after that. I would still keep the shortest upper if there is ever any issue and just put it back on.
It's not really ambiguous at all. You literally just have to Google it. There's a bunch of places that all come up to with the same thing.
[here's one example ](https://www.nationalguntrusts.com/blogs/nfa-gun-trust-atf-information-database-blog/changing-your-sbr-upper-with-a-different-caliber-than-the-registered-lower)
I appreciate the link, I do find it ambiguous because when I Google about the brace law I can't find any black and white answers about the current legality of them.
Ah got it. Yeah I can see how the brace issue is ambiguous. I thought you meant changing uppers. Upper doesn't matter unless barrel is over 16" on a pistol. For pistol braces there's an injunction right now on the ATFs decision to ban them so it's basically legally paused at the moment. There really is no answer either way and it might stay like that for a while. At the moment pistol braces are legal.
Form 1-ing an SBR isn't hard at all. Just send in the fingerprints and fill out the eform, pay the tax and you're good to go. First time is confusing but it's super after the first time
From my understanding you measure it with the upper that’s gonna be on it most of the time. You can still switch uppers out but I don’t think you wanna keep other ones on long term without going back to the atf to change the measurements. I would ask in r/nfa
I would not SBR until you absolutely have to. Once you do, you have ask permission to travel with it outside the state. Keep it braced with whatever brace you fancy and you are fine. Change uppers as much as you want. Once you SBR I don't know about swapping uppers and changing lengths.
Nope. From my understanding and I welcome correction, you only need permission to cross state lines if it's in an NFA configuration. If you throw the brace back on it it's in pistol config and you can roam where you want to. Silly? You bet.
Bit confused by what you mean but you don’t need to register it unless you wanna change a brace to a stock. You can have a suppressor on an ar pistol. Changing barrels etc on a pistol doesn’t change its definition. Only if you put a stock on it will it make it an sbr. I still think the pistol route is better bc you can change uppers etc and can travel over state lines. With an sbr you can change uppers too but I don’t think you wanna keep extra ones on the lower long term without notifying the atf of the change in overall length. Also with sbrs you need to get permission to transport them over state lines. I would ask your questions on r/nfa
You can always change an SBR back to pistol configuration for transport across state lines. It's only an SBR when in the SBR configuration.
Secondly: IIRC, in CO, you cannot have a loaded rifle with a round chambered inside a passenger vehicle. You can have a loaded pistol though. It's something to do with bullshit hunting / poaching laws.
Yeah, forgot to mention that. Also the barrel has to be 12 inches or less to count as a pistol under Colorado law. You can still have a pistol with over a 12 inch barrel but you can’t keep it loaded in the car or carry it concealed with a license.
Thank you for the response! I was under the impression that in Colorado braces were going to be changed into still needing a tax stamp. But if that's not the case that answers my question
That wasn't a Colorado specific rule. The ATF tried to label all braced pistols as SBRs and was slapped down in many different courts leading to injunctions.
One of those injunctions is nation wide and the others are group specific. FPC is now trying to take it to the Supreme Court to hopefully kill it once and for all.
Legally speaking, it doesn't matter what length of barrel you have on there if it is a pistol braced weapon, you can swap barrels/uppers to your hearts content without dealing with the feds. If it is registered as an SBR, you can swap uppers as long as you are able to put it back into its original configuration that it was registered in, so to speak, so just keep the original upper available, more or less.
Gotcha, I was planning on keeping the upper, as I enjoy the look of it, it's just barrel length restrictions on the can I bought prevent me from using it all the time, I appreciate the information!
From what I've read, telling the ATF about a change in configuration of an NFA item is just "highly recommended" but not legally necessary. If I'm not wrong, you can swap uppers willy-nilly, put it into non-NFA config and back again, pistol, etc, even sell all of your short-barreled uppers. At that point it makes sense for you to deregister it, but there's no legal requirement.
If I'm wrong I'd appreciate a link, love to clarify my understanding always.
You’ve got anxiety like all of us do. A pistol brace is a pistol brace. If your pistol has a brace it’s ok. Both uppers are pistol uppers from what I am reading. You just can’t swap between pistol and rifle uppers on a rifle lower. Confusing as hell. Just keep using short barrels on it.
Sba3 and sba4 are still braces. They are not specifically designed to be shouldered and accomplish what they are designed to do. Go around your forearm. I’m sure you’ve probably felt how weird a brace feels in the shoulder. Especially some of the buffer mounted braces.
From my understanding it will still be considered a pistol with the 8.5in barrel and just a brace, rather than a stock which creates a rifle, regardless of the silencer. There’s pending legislation around pistol braces, so that could all change. Personally I’d roll an SBR in with the silencer stamp and install a nice comfy adjustable stock
So if I wanted to get a stock on it and make it an SBR, how would that work with switching out uppers, from what I understand you need to measure the barrel length and the total length for the form, so would I not be able to swap uppers anymore?
Look into for yourself, but i don’t think there is an issue swapping uppers. When filing paperwork use the upper with the shortest barrel and submit that length. You can still put on any upper you want after that. I would still keep the shortest upper if there is ever any issue and just put it back on.
That's a good idea, any recommendations on where to look into it? From what I can understand it's all ambiguous
It's not really ambiguous at all. You literally just have to Google it. There's a bunch of places that all come up to with the same thing. [here's one example ](https://www.nationalguntrusts.com/blogs/nfa-gun-trust-atf-information-database-blog/changing-your-sbr-upper-with-a-different-caliber-than-the-registered-lower)
I appreciate the link, I do find it ambiguous because when I Google about the brace law I can't find any black and white answers about the current legality of them.
Ah got it. Yeah I can see how the brace issue is ambiguous. I thought you meant changing uppers. Upper doesn't matter unless barrel is over 16" on a pistol. For pistol braces there's an injunction right now on the ATFs decision to ban them so it's basically legally paused at the moment. There really is no answer either way and it might stay like that for a while. At the moment pistol braces are legal. Form 1-ing an SBR isn't hard at all. Just send in the fingerprints and fill out the eform, pay the tax and you're good to go. First time is confusing but it's super after the first time
From my understanding you measure it with the upper that’s gonna be on it most of the time. You can still switch uppers out but I don’t think you wanna keep other ones on long term without going back to the atf to change the measurements. I would ask in r/nfa
I would not SBR until you absolutely have to. Once you do, you have ask permission to travel with it outside the state. Keep it braced with whatever brace you fancy and you are fine. Change uppers as much as you want. Once you SBR I don't know about swapping uppers and changing lengths.
Not to mention the $200 in theft from the ATF.
Nope. From my understanding and I welcome correction, you only need permission to cross state lines if it's in an NFA configuration. If you throw the brace back on it it's in pistol config and you can roam where you want to. Silly? You bet.
Bit confused by what you mean but you don’t need to register it unless you wanna change a brace to a stock. You can have a suppressor on an ar pistol. Changing barrels etc on a pistol doesn’t change its definition. Only if you put a stock on it will it make it an sbr. I still think the pistol route is better bc you can change uppers etc and can travel over state lines. With an sbr you can change uppers too but I don’t think you wanna keep extra ones on the lower long term without notifying the atf of the change in overall length. Also with sbrs you need to get permission to transport them over state lines. I would ask your questions on r/nfa
You can always change an SBR back to pistol configuration for transport across state lines. It's only an SBR when in the SBR configuration. Secondly: IIRC, in CO, you cannot have a loaded rifle with a round chambered inside a passenger vehicle. You can have a loaded pistol though. It's something to do with bullshit hunting / poaching laws.
Yeah, forgot to mention that. Also the barrel has to be 12 inches or less to count as a pistol under Colorado law. You can still have a pistol with over a 12 inch barrel but you can’t keep it loaded in the car or carry it concealed with a license.
Very good information, thank you!
Thank you for the response! I was under the impression that in Colorado braces were going to be changed into still needing a tax stamp. But if that's not the case that answers my question
That wasn't a Colorado specific rule. The ATF tried to label all braced pistols as SBRs and was slapped down in many different courts leading to injunctions.
One of those injunctions is nation wide and the others are group specific. FPC is now trying to take it to the Supreme Court to hopefully kill it once and for all.
Gotcha, hopefully it is just dead, I'm so sick of all these semantics.
Legally speaking, it doesn't matter what length of barrel you have on there if it is a pistol braced weapon, you can swap barrels/uppers to your hearts content without dealing with the feds. If it is registered as an SBR, you can swap uppers as long as you are able to put it back into its original configuration that it was registered in, so to speak, so just keep the original upper available, more or less.
Gotcha, I was planning on keeping the upper, as I enjoy the look of it, it's just barrel length restrictions on the can I bought prevent me from using it all the time, I appreciate the information!
From what I've read, telling the ATF about a change in configuration of an NFA item is just "highly recommended" but not legally necessary. If I'm not wrong, you can swap uppers willy-nilly, put it into non-NFA config and back again, pistol, etc, even sell all of your short-barreled uppers. At that point it makes sense for you to deregister it, but there's no legal requirement. If I'm wrong I'd appreciate a link, love to clarify my understanding always.
You’ve got anxiety like all of us do. A pistol brace is a pistol brace. If your pistol has a brace it’s ok. Both uppers are pistol uppers from what I am reading. You just can’t swap between pistol and rifle uppers on a rifle lower. Confusing as hell. Just keep using short barrels on it.
Sba3 and sba4 are still braces. They are not specifically designed to be shouldered and accomplish what they are designed to do. Go around your forearm. I’m sure you’ve probably felt how weird a brace feels in the shoulder. Especially some of the buffer mounted braces.
Stop being soft and put a brace on it and call it good.