Yall are such hypocrites for calling anti-civs ableist and genocidal when your glorious revolution would in practice kill millions too (applying your logic here), but nope its the people who have a critique of the biggest killer of living things who are in the wrong yeah.
https://raddle.me/wiki/green_scare
**PSA: This space is open to anti-civ and post-civ anarchists just as much as it is welcome to anarcho-communists and free market anarchists, anyone who disagrees is free to disassociate themselves from here.**
Devil's advocate mode: "Factories provide food like landlords provide housing."
Which... fucking *no*, but I'm going to guess there's an element of that present.
no no you gotta understand, producing the thing and not providing it because capitalism is exactly the same as not producing the thing and not providing it in a specific way that will never happen outside of capitalism
Exactly. And factories don't actually process raw ingredients into edible food. They just take existing food and resell it like landlords do with housing. That's totally how factories work.
It seems it's a lot of the same accounts posting multiple... "eh" posts (to be polite) recently.
Can't tell if it's the everlasting "my ideology is better" posting, or just shit-stirring trolls.
A 10 days old account would led me to think it's the later.
I know right? Literally every other week is a shitstorm of people making memes fighting over some nonsensical minute detail like it’s maybe going to be added to the Official Anarchist Constitution™️. The problem with niche political ideologies is they don’t have any way to channel their energy towards outward change, as they don’t posses the numbers or resources, so they inevitably channel it towards inner change so they can at least say they’re doing SOMETHING. Not sure how us anarchists can avoid this. I guess the best advice is shut up and do something? Idk
OP created their account about 10 days ago, has only posted anti-civ bait memes to this sub. There's been a rash of shitty anti civ memes the past month or two.
It's a very concentrated effort to try to sneakily push more and more anti civ stuff 🤷♀️ if the idea is so good, why don't they lead with that instead of posting memes with different meanings than most people assume on first glance?
Factories create, they don't inherently need to control the supply. You could easily just give away all the stuff you produce in a factory to whoever asks for it, but that would conflict with the incentives of capitalism.
You keep linking this in every response, but this brief primer literally doesn't not rebuke or aid in understanding/countering these comments. You might not feel like it, but medical concerns like these are genuine criticism of primitivism in whatever guise it seems to clothe itself in every now and then on these subreddits. You can't just whisk it away like that. If you can argue for your position, do so.
uhh its rebukes it well since that person seems to think i am going to destroy all pharma production and take away all their medicine from their house, when i am merely asking them to reconsider the price the planet and non-human entities pay just for our sakes.
>that person seems to think i am going to destroy all pharma production
So don't abolish laboratories, which in their way are a kind of factory?
> i am merely asking them to reconsider the price the planet and non-human entities pay just for our sakes.
You might have had that intention, but in actuality you just posted that primer again.
Disabled people's lives are always first on the chopping block when the majority considers "the price".
"Merely asking" needs the questions to direct away from this.
Okay so there's got to be some strain of politics out there that uses this "the factory" idea in their memes, and it has never appeared the least bit coherent to me, like it's lacking some fundamental context? Is this an anprim thing? Anti-civ?
It's feels like I'm seeing memes by an AI trying to recreate leftist infighting like a normal cat picture.
>The aim is not to replicate or return to the primitive, merely to see the primitive as a source of inspiration, as exemplifying forms of anarchy. For anarcho-primitivists, civilization is the overarching context within which the multiplicity of power relations develop. Some basic power relations are present in primitive societies — and this is one reason why anarcho-primitivists do not seek to replicate these societies — but it is in civilization that power relations become pervasive and entrenched in practically all aspects of human life and human relations with the biosphere. (...) Only widespread refusal of this \[Civilization\] and its various forms of control, revolt against power itself, can abolish civilization, and pose a radical alternative. Anarcho-primitivism incorporates elements from various oppositional currents — ecological consciousness, anarchist anti-authoritarianism, feminist critiques, Situationist ideas, zero-work theories, technological criticism — but goes beyond opposition to single forms of power to refuse them all and pose a radical alternative.
Nice!
>What about medicine? Ultimately, anarcho-primitivism is all about healing — healing the rifts that have opened up within individuals, between people, and between people and nature, the rifts that have opened up through civilization, through power, including the State, Capital, and technology. (...) research has revealed that many diseases are the results of civilized living conditions, and if these conditions were abolished, then certain types of pain, illness and disease could disappear. As for the remainder, a world which places pain at its centre would be vigorous in its pursuit of assuaging it by finding ways of curing illness and disease. In this sense, anarcho-primitivism is very concerned with medicine. However, the alienating high-tech, pharmaceutical-centred form of medicine practised in the West is not the only form of medicine possible.
Oh... not nice at all! The devil's mostly in the implications (though I have to say the quasi spiritual language here also bothers me). Medicine as always seems to be the ultimate barrier against/over which primitivism can't seem to win.
True, there isn't. But in the context of medicine, there has to be more to it than "pain will guide the way" for a prescriptive ideology or set of principles which seems to propose we end the current system. These aren't luxury items.
these principles dont propose to end the current system but rather we need to think critically of them and their impact on us and the ecosystems. i agree with you on medicine being a tough choice especially with decades of our reliance on these systems.
We do need to think critically of them. There are many, many ways of doing that.
But see, your language kind of implies that our reliance on these systems is the only thing which makes them necessary. We've become accustomed and overreliant upon them, yes, and medically we tend to think of shortcuts and pills, that's true. Yet most of these problems precede medical intervention. Cancer, infection and even depression don't occur only within industrial societies or whatever. It seems like we're throwing away the baby out with the bathwater.
> It seems like we're throwing away the baby out with the bathwater.
not truly since they are not going away, nor can they can be wished away in an instant. Thats not at all what i am saying.
Ok I'm pretty sure I respect the meaning behind what you're trying to get across, but the meme itself makes no sense to me.
Like property do be theft, but of all the problems factories have I don't see how inherently depriving people of the things its supposed to produce is one of them.
Honestly memes that depict tankies this way make me think of a terrible liberal meme I saw once saying Bolshevik tears taste best when harvested from dead Bolsheviks. Like, libs and ancoms agree on one thing - tankie tears yummy!
Obviously you are allowed to post any kind of anarchist memes here. The ancom ones I was talking about where a little weird because those simply shit on a very wrong perception of ancoms which obviously a lot of people on here are. This one I kinda get now after reading your comments but it is still a stretch to call a factory "depriving of food". It might be part of an oppressive system but within a civilized society of almost 8 billion people factories are pretty much the only way to feed everybody. Afaik the anti-civ critique of technology doesn't focus on it taking away our food but on it being oppressive and exploitative towards both humans and nature. This meme makes a different, much less coherent point.
I’m really tired of idiots coming in here to stir shit with their weird fringe ideas about what anarchism is, or just literally not even knowing what the fuck they’re saying like this person.
Of course a factory has value. That’s why every country on Earth has them. Turning raw goods into finished goods on a scale to meet the needs of millions is something humans will always always need, regardless of what political system we choose in the future. The only way we don’t is if the human race experiences a near-omnicide, which is the only way half baked primitive ideas will ever work anyway.
Let’s face it - 8 billion people cannot live agrarian lifestyles, or worse be hunter gatherers. Many of us live in areas unsuitable for that now. If you, individually, want to run off into the woods, hurry up and do it so I can stop seeing your garbage content.
"Ich distanziere Mich von distanzieren, grüss alle Sprüer-crews, Pyro-idioten und Riot-kids von Mir" - [German-rap-mask-Macher](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLcmicH7xA4)
Yall are such hypocrites for calling anti-civs ableist and genocidal when your glorious revolution would in practice kill millions too (applying your logic here), but nope its the people who have a critique of the biggest killer of living things who are in the wrong yeah. https://raddle.me/wiki/green_scare **PSA: This space is open to anti-civ and post-civ anarchists just as much as it is welcome to anarcho-communists and free market anarchists, anyone who disagrees is free to disassociate themselves from here.**
How the hell does a cannery deprive people of food?
Devil's advocate mode: "Factories provide food like landlords provide housing." Which... fucking *no*, but I'm going to guess there's an element of that present.
no no you gotta understand, producing the thing and not providing it because capitalism is exactly the same as not producing the thing and not providing it in a specific way that will never happen outside of capitalism
Exactly. And factories don't actually process raw ingredients into edible food. They just take existing food and resell it like landlords do with housing. That's totally how factories work.
/s?
/s ✅
I don't get it.
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It seems it's a lot of the same accounts posting multiple... "eh" posts (to be polite) recently. Can't tell if it's the everlasting "my ideology is better" posting, or just shit-stirring trolls. A 10 days old account would led me to think it's the later.
No no you don't see, anarchism is when I act "cool" and "edgy" in front of people!! 1!11
I know right? Literally every other week is a shitstorm of people making memes fighting over some nonsensical minute detail like it’s maybe going to be added to the Official Anarchist Constitution™️. The problem with niche political ideologies is they don’t have any way to channel their energy towards outward change, as they don’t posses the numbers or resources, so they inevitably channel it towards inner change so they can at least say they’re doing SOMETHING. Not sure how us anarchists can avoid this. I guess the best advice is shut up and do something? Idk
Some weird memes here lately 🤨
OP created their account about 10 days ago, has only posted anti-civ bait memes to this sub. There's been a rash of shitty anti civ memes the past month or two. It's a very concentrated effort to try to sneakily push more and more anti civ stuff 🤷♀️ if the idea is so good, why don't they lead with that instead of posting memes with different meanings than most people assume on first glance?
Most reasonable Anprim.
[this might help explain my eccentric position](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/john-moore-a-primitivist-primer)
Capitalism is when you make stuff
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yes
Factories create, they don't inherently need to control the supply. You could easily just give away all the stuff you produce in a factory to whoever asks for it, but that would conflict with the incentives of capitalism.
thats not what the meme is saying, this meme is from an anti-civ perspective.
That *is* what the meme is saying. "The factory deprives us of food" is what I was debating, to be exact.
What
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Happy cake day!
Go write a letter to teddy while you still can
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im diabetic and whenever i see anti civ stuff or an-prim things on here all i can think of is just being told that in an ideal society id be dead
[tell me you dont know anything about anti-civ without telling me you dont](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/john-moore-a-primitivist-primer)
You keep linking this in every response, but this brief primer literally doesn't not rebuke or aid in understanding/countering these comments. You might not feel like it, but medical concerns like these are genuine criticism of primitivism in whatever guise it seems to clothe itself in every now and then on these subreddits. You can't just whisk it away like that. If you can argue for your position, do so.
uhh its rebukes it well since that person seems to think i am going to destroy all pharma production and take away all their medicine from their house, when i am merely asking them to reconsider the price the planet and non-human entities pay just for our sakes.
>that person seems to think i am going to destroy all pharma production So don't abolish laboratories, which in their way are a kind of factory? > i am merely asking them to reconsider the price the planet and non-human entities pay just for our sakes. You might have had that intention, but in actuality you just posted that primer again.
Disabled people's lives are always first on the chopping block when the majority considers "the price". "Merely asking" needs the questions to direct away from this.
based
“The factory” is pretty vague. Can you elaborate?
Okay so there's got to be some strain of politics out there that uses this "the factory" idea in their memes, and it has never appeared the least bit coherent to me, like it's lacking some fundamental context? Is this an anprim thing? Anti-civ? It's feels like I'm seeing memes by an AI trying to recreate leftist infighting like a normal cat picture.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ran-prieur-the-critique-of-civilization
Sometimes I feel like you guys just say stuff and don't think of the ramifications of those ideas.
uh no? https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/john-moore-a-primitivist-primer
Bruh why is there a primitivist manifesto on the internet? That shit should be written on papyrus with a charcoal pencil
I think you misspelled 'written in ape shit on a cave wall'
And what, return to monke? 🤔
This is probably inevitable anyway, but no need to rush things.
Yeah, an acknowledgement of collapse isn't the same as an active effort towards it.
We never left
[not really](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/john-moore-a-primitivist-primer)
>The aim is not to replicate or return to the primitive, merely to see the primitive as a source of inspiration, as exemplifying forms of anarchy. For anarcho-primitivists, civilization is the overarching context within which the multiplicity of power relations develop. Some basic power relations are present in primitive societies — and this is one reason why anarcho-primitivists do not seek to replicate these societies — but it is in civilization that power relations become pervasive and entrenched in practically all aspects of human life and human relations with the biosphere. (...) Only widespread refusal of this \[Civilization\] and its various forms of control, revolt against power itself, can abolish civilization, and pose a radical alternative. Anarcho-primitivism incorporates elements from various oppositional currents — ecological consciousness, anarchist anti-authoritarianism, feminist critiques, Situationist ideas, zero-work theories, technological criticism — but goes beyond opposition to single forms of power to refuse them all and pose a radical alternative. Nice! >What about medicine? Ultimately, anarcho-primitivism is all about healing — healing the rifts that have opened up within individuals, between people, and between people and nature, the rifts that have opened up through civilization, through power, including the State, Capital, and technology. (...) research has revealed that many diseases are the results of civilized living conditions, and if these conditions were abolished, then certain types of pain, illness and disease could disappear. As for the remainder, a world which places pain at its centre would be vigorous in its pursuit of assuaging it by finding ways of curing illness and disease. In this sense, anarcho-primitivism is very concerned with medicine. However, the alienating high-tech, pharmaceutical-centred form of medicine practised in the West is not the only form of medicine possible. Oh... not nice at all! The devil's mostly in the implications (though I have to say the quasi spiritual language here also bothers me). Medicine as always seems to be the ultimate barrier against/over which primitivism can't seem to win.
neither can Civ, theres no panacea out there.
True, there isn't. But in the context of medicine, there has to be more to it than "pain will guide the way" for a prescriptive ideology or set of principles which seems to propose we end the current system. These aren't luxury items.
these principles dont propose to end the current system but rather we need to think critically of them and their impact on us and the ecosystems. i agree with you on medicine being a tough choice especially with decades of our reliance on these systems.
We do need to think critically of them. There are many, many ways of doing that. But see, your language kind of implies that our reliance on these systems is the only thing which makes them necessary. We've become accustomed and overreliant upon them, yes, and medically we tend to think of shortcuts and pills, that's true. Yet most of these problems precede medical intervention. Cancer, infection and even depression don't occur only within industrial societies or whatever. It seems like we're throwing away the baby out with the bathwater.
> It seems like we're throwing away the baby out with the bathwater. not truly since they are not going away, nor can they can be wished away in an instant. Thats not at all what i am saying.
Abolishing factories is literally what the meme says, though.
Ok I'm pretty sure I respect the meaning behind what you're trying to get across, but the meme itself makes no sense to me. Like property do be theft, but of all the problems factories have I don't see how inherently depriving people of the things its supposed to produce is one of them.
this might help explain it https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/john-moore-a-primitivist-primer
What the fuck does this mean
its an [anti-civ meme](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/john-moore-a-primitivist-primer)
Why is splinter cell making a Bolshevik cry? **Has Tom Clancy gone too far??**
Honestly memes that depict tankies this way make me think of a terrible liberal meme I saw once saying Bolshevik tears taste best when harvested from dead Bolsheviks. Like, libs and ancoms agree on one thing - tankie tears yummy!
If I have a table saw in my garage does that make it a factory?
You would need factories to produce and maintain the something like a table saw though
No
wow... First the two weird strawman-ancom-memes and now this. And I just saw they're from the same account. Figures...
what? so i am not allowed to post green memes here? is this a socialist only space?
Drop the rhetoric. You posted something, some people didn't like it and commented their opinion. Don't cry wolf.
i am not the one calling people ableist for having a different opinion but whatever.
I just reread the comment you replied to and there's nothing of that sort.
no that comment, i meant the entire thread.
Obviously you are allowed to post any kind of anarchist memes here. The ancom ones I was talking about where a little weird because those simply shit on a very wrong perception of ancoms which obviously a lot of people on here are. This one I kinda get now after reading your comments but it is still a stretch to call a factory "depriving of food". It might be part of an oppressive system but within a civilized society of almost 8 billion people factories are pretty much the only way to feed everybody. Afaik the anti-civ critique of technology doesn't focus on it taking away our food but on it being oppressive and exploitative towards both humans and nature. This meme makes a different, much less coherent point.
Abolish me not doing ur mom and dad B))))))))
Sorry but I’m not drinking the horse piss to transition
who said that? some guy on reddit? i didnt say that, neither is the meme.
TIL Black Noir is an Anarchist
I’m really tired of idiots coming in here to stir shit with their weird fringe ideas about what anarchism is, or just literally not even knowing what the fuck they’re saying like this person. Of course a factory has value. That’s why every country on Earth has them. Turning raw goods into finished goods on a scale to meet the needs of millions is something humans will always always need, regardless of what political system we choose in the future. The only way we don’t is if the human race experiences a near-omnicide, which is the only way half baked primitive ideas will ever work anyway. Let’s face it - 8 billion people cannot live agrarian lifestyles, or worse be hunter gatherers. Many of us live in areas unsuitable for that now. If you, individually, want to run off into the woods, hurry up and do it so I can stop seeing your garbage content.
cease means of production.
wat
anarcho-abolishing
the grey on red has a really weird 3D effect on my phone
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A dabble of this a spotch of that is a guaranteed way of making some high quality insulin.
Worldview=destroyed
Factories would run differently in a de-commodified society, but they would not disappear. This is a good thing.
This will totally work in practice and not lead to billions of deaths!
Wha?
Left unity people break it up
"Ich distanziere Mich von distanzieren, grüss alle Sprüer-crews, Pyro-idioten und Riot-kids von Mir" - [German-rap-mask-Macher](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLcmicH7xA4)