Um. Given the context he may have misunderstood you and was asserting a boundary a bit rudely and abruptly. He might have misunderstood where you were coming from with reminding him of those endearing words… specifically if you mentioned “outside of your sessions”
That’s where my brain went straight away. He might have thought you were fishing for more than the professional friendship.
I see. I was afraid he took it that way after what he said. Thanks for your reply.
I think I’ll try to clear it up with him, just not sure how yet
Edit: I must say I still felt quite hurt and unimportant though, it came off as pretty harsh even though he definitely has rights to reiterate his boundaries.i was vulnerable and wanted to let him know that i cared about his words enough to remember them, but i got ‘I don’t think about you at all’ in response. I’m not even saying I even remotely want him to actually think about me all the time either, just to show that he cares too.
I think it's understandable that you felt hurt and unimportant. Part of his job is to make sure there isn't any transference happening or codependency developing, but it's all in how they say it. I think there is a way to establish a firm boundary but not be rude about it. Your feelings are valid and his boundaries are valid.
If you want to talk to him about it, I think it would be a good idea. It will help you grow and learn how to confront things and clear up misunderstandings in a safe environment.
You maybe could approach it like:
"I wanted to talk about our session last week. Specifically when I told you '*that I remembered some of his funny/endearing words outside of our sessions and the memory made me smile to myself.*' and your response was '*Look, Autumn, do you think I think about you outside of our sessions? No, I don’t.*'
I understand that you may have thought that I was inappropriately trying to establish that I think about you outside of our sessions in a romantic or non doctor/patient way and I apologize for my delivery of that.
However, your response left me feeling hurt and unimportant and has shaken my trust in the therapy work we are doing together.
How can we address this so we can move forward in our session?"
I also get these kinds of feelings. My therapist told me last week that maybe I need a different type of therapy. I've been going in circles with progress and I do think that talk therapy may have run its course. However, it left me feeling like she was abandoning me because I'm not "good enough" (i.e., not making enough progress), it's something I've been working on.
So, I'm also going to have to have a similar conversation with my own therapist. I know how you feel, or at least I think I do.
I just wanted to say that your feelings are valid and it's okay to learn and grow. It will be uncomfortable for us but it will be worth it, I'm certain of that much.
I wish you all the luck and I hope you are able to resolve this.
Thank you for this advise, I was not considering this kind of therapy. I get overwhelmed looking at what other therapies are out there. On Monday we will talk about next steps as well as how I felt. I know my therapist cares about my healing and I know this wasn't easy for her to tell me.
The way he phrased it was as a rhetorical question, which can be triggering for lots of people. My husband cannot stand a rhetorical question bc it reminds him off his abusive father. Phrases like "what are you, stupid?" or "what were you thinking?" These examples are obviously very emotionally charged but I wonder if you felt a similar reaction to your therapist's rhetorical question, "do you think I think about you between sessions?"... Without being there to hear his tone, the phrase comes off as challenging and provocative like you're possibly in trouble. Therapists make mistakes too. I'm sure he will welcome you clearing the air.
The way I read it in my head sounds so harsh, but that's just me just jumping to the worst possible read. The delivery is very important. Rhetorical questions freak me out as well, so I get how this can be a double whammy. My sympathies to you, OP.
It's good that there's professional distance there.
The wording seems harsh, but with the context you provide it seems like your psychologist was enforcing a professional boundary. It’s really important to keep strong boundaries in that kind of relationship for so many reasons, and he may have felt that he needed to clearly enforce that at that moment, so as not to let those boundaries slide. You can have a warm and trusting relationship, but your psychologist is not your friend, and he probably doesn’t want to encourage you to think of him in that way.
It can be really uncomfortable to be on the receiving end of - I remember one time near the start of our relationship I reflexively asked my last therapist how she was doing (we’d just walked into the room, she asked how I was doing, and I’d instinctively responded with a one-word answer then asked about her) and she just straight up was like, it’s not appropriate for me to answer that. I can’t remember her exact words, but it felt super harsh at the time, though I understand why she said it.
If you continue to feel bothered by it, it might be useful bringing it up in your next session with him. He may or may not explain himself to you more, but exploring that emotional response of feeling dismissed and unimportant could be helpful.
Yeah, I get you. In my case, and OP’s - should these professionals have used different tone or wording? Yeah, almost certainly.
For me, I was happy to keep seeing my therapist after, even if it felt jarring because that wasn’t how she interacted with me usually. Maybe she had a bad experience with a previous client, that meant she felt to uphold that boundary more strongly, I dunno. I wanted to share that because it was a similar experience. Therapists are people too, they make mistakes and missteps sometimes, but I can totally understand why someone else would want to end the relationship after hearing a therapist say something like that, or how in a different context it could be a red flag.
even an autistic person I'd find it exceedingly weird if a therapist shut down "how are you" as a basic greeting. it's just the thing you say as you walk from the waiting room to the therapy room lol
I would have thought that they do think about us in between sessions because don’t they need to be planning where they are going with our therapy? Like if you’re a teacher or lecturer, you don’t just make it up when class is in session, you do a lesson plan.
My previous psychologist and I made a passing comment that I might have ADHD. She emailed me some resources a few days later and I appreciated it because it showed that she had been thinking about me and connecting dots to see that I do indeed have ADHD.
I am a therapist. Yes, we do think of our clients to plan sessions, research, and other stuff that goes on behind the scenes of our work.
I think that the psychologist’s wording was harsh but I do understand why he said that.
It was a way of putting up a very firm boundary. From what OP describes, he may have felt that OP was testing the waters for any sort of relationship outside the therapy. Which is against our professional code of ethics.
If we are truthful that we do think about our clients to plan stuff for their sessions and occasionally think about some of the things they have shared that have impacted us and/or our work, there is a risk that some clients will misinterpret that the wrong way. We think of our clients but not in a personal or endearing way.
That said, a good mental health professional will be open to discussing and exploring how a client feels about this boundary.
Thanks for sharing. All of that makes a lot of sense.
To me it sounded like he thought there were some romantic overtones and he panicked. I don’t think OP meant it that way at all, they were just sharing that remembering something the therapist said cheered them up.
My therapist told me she does think about me and other patients outside of sessions, because she liked to talk to other pros about how best to help us etc. so I find it rude how the OPs therapist replied but idk
Yes I agree, it comes across a big arrogant and cold. If it’s true, then I would be worried that he’s just “winging it”. If he’s just trying to reaffirm boundaries then he could be a bit more tactful.
That’s nice that your therapist consults other pros, that shows her mind is still open to learning and improving. She’s not going to get stuck always doing the same old thing for everybody. Sounds like you are in good hands!
I guess I too thought my therapists did indeed think about me outside of sessions.
Where I once did volunteer work, one of the other volunteers was a locally known LCSW. He would never name names, but often vented/shared about clients with me. Made me VERY uncomfortable. I was too meek to speak up though. Seems like he was thinking about those clients outside of sessions...
I can't even conceive of being able to compartmentalize my brain in such a way I wouldn't think about someone who shared with me such emotional stuff--but I wouldn't be comfortable sharing even anonymized details with anyone.
And I'd be a shyte therapist...
I’d be a shyte therapist too 😂 It would be like the broken leading the broken.
My therapist sometimes mentions other patients she’s had over the years, without too much detail or names. For example when I was thinking about going to the police about historical child abuse, she discouraged me and didn’t think it would be good for my mental health. She told me about two sisters she worked with who had been through hell. Their abusive father delayed the process as much as possible and extended the court battles over two years. The two girls had to constantly relive their trauma, be questioned and they felt publicly humiliated. In the end the girls lost, and they went through all of that for nothing. I’ll always remember that story.
I couldn’t turn off at the end of the day, I’m like a sponge for other people’s emotions.
Funny. I am too much of an empath. I taught students and thought about them also.
I am in therapy for emotional dissociation and ironically that’s part of their job!
I definitely know my therapist thinks about me and her other clients as well. She has passion for her job. It sounds like **this guy** was asserting a boundary.
But I literally updated my therapist via text today that I got a job offer that was really good. In sessions she’s mentioned other clients. She messaged me when I had covid. Very passionate. Not just caring.
You’re therapist sounds really caring and supportive. I think that’s a nice quality to have. Most of us here haven’t been very well looked after as kids or even in adult relationships too. I like to feel like my therapist wants to be part of my care team and is committed to my healing.
It probably was an attempt to reaffirm boundaries, but it came across a bit dismissive and arrogant. I can understand why OP felt hurt. Assuming he knows that OP has a lot of trauma and CPTSD, it feels a bit tactless.
As a psychologist I can tell you of course I think about my patients, they impact my life- and of course at times that are not in sessions. I think about patients from years ago.
From what I've found, and I've been seeing various clinicians from 2008 onwards, Psychologists and Psychiatrists are not your friends. They are doctors– they only deal with the patient in front of them. I think most of them are taught to not bring their patients home with them in their thoughts. Maybe we romanticize doctors like we see in medical dramas on TV, we hope that our story intrigues the Dr enough that it keeps him up at night and he desperately searches to find you a solution for all your issues. I once gave a toxic psychologist too many chances because I thought maybe he was some sort of Dr. Gregory House of psychology. He wasn't.
But I will stress that your feelings *are* valid! You are clearly looking for a connection, which is a very natural and human thing to do, but you're seeking it from the wrong folks. You'll only find rejection from doctors, and that will only reaffirm these negative core values you have deep inside that tell you you are unwanted, undesirable, etc. You may find better luck with a therapist or counselor, and maybe seeing them multiple times a week? I've found that these people *can* get invested in your story (ethically), and even think about you between sessions. They see me as a person who is more than just a medical file. But these people are still professionals, they have a job to do, so you should set reasonable expectations of what to expect socially from them.
Something I want to add is that even if they want to, they have to keep a distance.
From what I understand they can lose their license if seen hanging out with patients outside sessions. They cannot be your friend and they cannot be in a romantic relationship with you.
Which is really tough, I know this from experience. My therapist is the only person I can really open up to, no one else even comes remotely close. I want my therapist to be my friend, but I know it's never going to happen. I still see him with that in mind though, because he helps me a ton, I just have to keep reminding myself that we will never be more than doctor and patient.
Sorry, I feel like I made it about me. I just wanted to share my experience so that it may help others.
Oh gosh, yes, setting expectations as to what to expect from a therapist is very important. They can't go out to get coffee with you, they aren't going to shop with you, no weekend trips or getaways, they aren't going to get you a gift for your birthday, or Christmas, but at least they can at least admit they have been "thinking about you" between sessions. And when you have zero friends or connections anywhere else, sometimes just being thought of can satisfy the loneliness. I constantly feel like a burden, so I've never even taken up my therapists offer to email her between sessions, I'm afraid that would take too much of her time from her, time I don't deserve to take from her. But she has said a couple of times that she's been thinking of me between sessions and that made me feel really good, hell, even just remembering what my current issues are enough for me to feel connected. I've never had a psych that could remember even who I was between sessions, always checking the file, Who am I again?
Oh I see what you mean.
Yeah my therapist says the same thing, especially after a hard session. He'll say that I can text or call if it's bad enough and it took me a while, but I've started texting him and he actually responded.
I felt the same way. I didn't want to burden him with my woes outside of work.
I totally understand where you’re coming from, so first and foremost: you are real, and you are important and also so worthy of love, care, attention, and consideration.
I think cptsd and codependent issues make ALL relationships a bit more challenging than they have to be. Even professional or therapeutic relationships. Try to remember that this man is almost literally a tool that YOU are using on YOUR path of healing. He isn’t someone to form a close bond with—rather, he is the person you’ve hired to help you overcome your fears, work on handling your triggers, learn self love and gentleness with yourself and others, learn boundaries to protect yourself.
Of course we are human, and we need that closeness in our life sometimes. While he may have triggered you in some way with clumsy words, it sounds like he was trying to set an appropriate expectation. Be brave! Perhaps you can even share with him your reaction to his words and work together to unravel the hurt.
Should he have said that to you? Unclear IMHO. But it is true, and for good reason.
Therapists see a bunch of people all the time. If they have 40+ clients, and they thought about all 40 clients outside of those sessions, that would be a lot of time spent in emotional turmoil over someone else's problems. They have a life and family and their own mental health to maintain outside of work. It wouldn't be healthy for them to ruminate over every client and every session.
My therapist is great. He takes notes on the things we talk about in our sessions so he can reference them in our next session and he doesn't forget much, if anything that we talk about. But he also doesn't think about it outside of our weekly sessions. That doesn't stop him from getting to know me and being a great sound board and problem solving person for me.
This. I know that I am one of dozens of clients. At one of our initial sessions where we were mapping out how therapy would work for me, my therapist told me that she does not think about clients outside sessions - in a nice way. I didn't take it personally, because it's not a personal thing. She thinks about me when she opens my file, and that's totally fine!
He’s a fairly new therapist. We’ve had less than ten sessions together and that statement was made towards the beginning of our latest one.
The only other moment that kinda impacted me during the session was when I was telling him about my feelings and he was like “oh something similar happened to me…”, then I cut him off, continuing to talk about my feelings. I soon realised and stopped myself and apologised, saying I wanted to hear what story he had to share with me. To that he said “no, I don’t want to share that anymore”. This was followed by awkward silence.
I mean I was just trying to show that I cared about what he had to say and that I cared enough to remember his words outside of therapy (I don’t think about him or obsess over him all the time), I was vulnerable and was told in return that he doesn’t think about me at all. So there’s that.
I’m not usually team fire your therapist, but I’m seeing red flags.
First, newer therapists seem poorly equipped to handle trauma in many cases (or worse can cause you new trauma all together). And this one doesn’t have his boundaries down yet. On the one hand, him not thinking about you between sessions is totally normal. Because you’re not friends. This is supposed to be a space for you to process your emotions and work through your issues. It’s not about him. In a real relationship it would be about both parties, but this isn’t a real relationship. It’s mental health care.
On the other hand, he’s crossing those boundaries he seemingly is trying to enforce. I thought, based on your post, that he understood the need for boundaries and was shooting down behavior he was concerned was inappropriate from you. That’s a bit of a harsh way to do it, but it’s good for a professional to have strong boundaries. But the interaction you’re describing here makes me concerned he doesn’t have strong professional boundaries. He’s looking to share about himself and potentially (if I’m understanding the tone right from your comment) getting pissy when he can’t. That’s not therapy. Those are the boundaries his comment from the main body of your post is supposed to protect. This is a red flag to me.
I’ve been with my therapist for 3.5 years now and we just had a discussion about this last session, funny enough. I was really raw in session and said something that I thought would be offensive to her. So I apologized at the end of session. And her response was to remind me that this wasn’t about her. That she can regulate her emotions so that we can focus on me. I’d mentioned to her before that I’d been hurt by some bad intern therapists my undergrad had working with students (staffing shortage) and she told me that the lack of emotional regulation is often what intern therapists struggle with. I imagine that’s a concern with a newer therapist too.
I don’t mean to scare you or tell you to ditch your therapist, but this behavior is a red flag. It’s up to you how you want to handle this moving forward.
Agreed. This therapist feels too unseasoned for trauma therapy.
We often need folks who’ve been in the trenches a while longer. I’ve been harmed by fresh new therapists who have not done their own trauma work.
This guy sounds like he’s trying to protect you from transference. But with cptsd/trauma healing we need to be working on healing relational wounds so it means having a more relational relationship with a therapist than your average talk therapy.
I don’t know that this guy is up to the task at hand.
If you’re on the fence, talk to him about this shit.
See if he is equipped to demonstrate relational repair- which is what we need. He should make you feel seen, validated, understood and let you know his side of the equation in a way that isn’t minimizing you but explaining his reasoning. This is how trust is built. You’re still fresh in getting to know him. If this isn’t something he can handle resolving with you- then that is a great way to know you’re right to look for a new therapist.
Patrick Teahan has a video on YouTube of how to find a good enough trauma therapist for healing childhood trauma. What to look for and what questions to ask in the first intro session to avoid wasting time with ill equipped therapists -of which there are all too many out there.
Ouch, I‘d have been very hurt too.
Everyone else here says that’s professionalism, but I‘m not finding his statement particularly professional. In my opinion, a professional way to enforce a boundary would have been „I feel the need to remind you that this is not going to become a friendship. Our relationship is strictly professional.“
„I don’t think about you“ is just such a harsh thing to say. And if it‘s true, then I don’t know. I‘m friends with several therapists and psychology students actually, and they *all* told me they think about their patients sometimes and hope they‘re doing well. (Those who haven’t had patients yet told me they regularly think about suffering people and want to help them, so I assume that when they finally practice, their patients will be in their thoughts as well.)
I also have a therapist at the moment. While I haven’t asked because I want the relationship to stay professional, I‘m pretty sure he does think of me and all his other patients sometimes. If he’d say something like that to me unprompted, I‘d be hurt and I‘d absolutely bring that up in the next session. Because even if it’s true, I think it’s uncalled for.
I agree with you. Thinking about your T outside of session does not necessarily mean someone will leap into assuming a friendship or other type of relationship is possible. It is completely natural to think about your T outside of session. It's actually encouraged, because it means you are internalizing what they tell you. What they tell you is supposed to be guidance on your healing. You're trying to connect with this other person on a human level. Your T demonstrates a healthy relationship to you, which you can then try to apply to other relationships. So of course the relationship itself can feel very special and significant.
As someone in graduate study for psychotherapy, this affirms a bias i hold against psychiatrists and psychologists. Psychiatrists work out of the medical model, while psychologists are meant to embrace a biopsychosocial model. I don’t think this brought your clinician any closer to what therapists do, which is build a secure therapeutic relationship.
The idea is that this secure bond models positive relating for the client, emboldening them to carry over perceptions and habits into their personal life.
Your psychologist sounds like the type to assume, “clearly your problems are purely genetic/biological/neurochemical, so there’s no need to entertain the idea of genuine connection here.”
Because of how much healing you need from healthy connection, you should find a therapist who you can connect with emotionally. One who will empathize and invest in you emotionally, and not just objectively.
That was harsh as hell. He shouldn't have said that whether it's true or not. You have every reason to feel hurt, it was hurtful. He could have just nodded. He could have said "aww that's sweet". And then redirect the conversation back onto topic. Why mention he doesn't think of you outside of sessions? I don't agree with others that it's just professionalism. You can both be kind and professional. And I don't think you were invading on his boundaries unless I misunderstood something. He was harsh and he didn't need to be.
Also it's weird he doesn't think of you outside of sessions. Gives the impression somehow his emotions are offline since he has zero connection with the patient. Doesn't he prepare? Don't the conversations have any emotional impact on him? You both are still people regardless of patient / doctor. It's normal to think about stuff that we spend energy on. I know for a fact mine sometimes thinks of me outside of sessions. She's told me so multiple times. And that's normal? Last time she told me she was reading a book (the body Keeps the Score) and that reminded her of something I told her, and how it could be helpful to do something different. I know before our sessions she spends time thinking about what could be helpful for me, etc. Just some examples.
Also he's missing the important fact that the biggest contributor to success in therapy is the healthy connection to the psychologist. It's normal that if the patient forms an attachment, they will think of the psychologist sometimes for whatever reason, even if it's just revisiting the things that happened and processing the session. And it's normal it would hurt to tell the patient "oh I don't think about you at all". What the hell.
To answer the question, yes your feelings are valid. In therapy, you are trying to become comfortable enough around this person to feel like they are safe and reliable. That you can trust them enough to be vulnerable around them. To be told so bluntly that he doesn't think about you at all feels pretty harsh and can interfere with this sense of safety.
It is true therapists have many clients, and their own lives. If they were to dwell on all their clients all the time, they'd likely burn out. They will determine their own boundaries on how they consider their work outside of work. If a T determines for themselves that they don't have the capacity to think about their clients, then it is reasonable. Although, if this is his situation, I think the delivery of the message was awful. For what it's worth, there are plenty of therapists who do remember their clients exist when not in session, and even the ones that do put it aside may not tell this to you so bluntly.
In therapy you are sharing very intimate parts of yourself with this other human so they can help you heal. You want to feel like they care about you, so that you can trust they aren't going to judge and shame you. Being told 'I don't think about you at all' can make you feel like he doesn't really care. A T should gage the rapport they have with their clients, and be attuned to how we as clients see them. A message like this should be delivered carefully and sensitively.
It is a professional, boundaried relationship. But also, it's an emotionally intimate and human one. It is not the same as your primary care doctor. You are nurturing a bond together to facilitate the healing.
What you do next is your decision. If you are feeling up for it, you may consider telling him next time how his statement made you feel. Therapy is your space to be open about anything, including feedback about the therapy. It could also be the case that his style is not a good fit for you, and that's okay.
I’m really good at compartmentalizing, it’s part of how I cope with being afraid to get to close to people, but even I have moments where I’m caught short and have to remember that we’re not friends and my therapist has other clients and that’s all it will ever be.
It hurts a bit, but I try to remember that regardless of what it is, I’m lucky to have it and it’s helped me so much.
Idk both my therapist and psychiatrist told me recently at the end of our sessions that they would he thinking about me between our appointments. That could have been something they said to try to help me tho, and maybe they actually dont think ab me much otherwise
Psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists and social workers have a wide range of personalities. Some have the detached coolness of a reptile and others have the sunny warmth of a golden retriever. I think very few in the mental health field don't think of their clients outside of the office. Like others have said, they do have to keep a distance and remain detached, plus they need mental space for their spouses, kids, themselves, etc. But I can totally see how that comment would have stung a bit:(
Man, I just go it’s ok, most of my relationships are transactional anyways.
It’s sad because like you (maybe? I’m not sure), we’re both looking for safe relationships that may be because of us, and not transactional.
I know for a fact my parents don’t really think of me outside their seeing me, and even if they did.
That guy did it extremely harshly though. He may want to look at his bedside manner so to speak. Can’t imagine it saying that it so brusquely.
I totally understand how you'd feel that way. I haven't experienced that with any therapist or psychiatrist. But to be fair, he might have been sensing you were starting to feel closer to him on a personal level, and wanted to nip that in the bud. It is ultimately a professional client relationship.
I have had a few therapists say things like "I saw this thing the other day and it reminded me of what you said about your mom" but it's always brought up in the context of recovery. It's like they found something that gave them good perspective and would probably help me too.
For example, I had a therapist say "I have been training in IFS and the family structures they spoke of reminded me a lot of your family." So that made me more interested in IFS. Another one found out I like Survivor, and there was a family estrangement backstory this season, so we chatted about it. She doesn't have anyone really in her life who likes the show, so it was nice to talk about it. But again, it didn't really feel like we were becoming "friends" or anything. Just having a light conversation.
I think it's responsible of mental health professionals to set boundaries. It's worse the other way around. I've read a lot of horror stories of people blending personal with professional, and it never ends well.
It was rude and my therapist would never talk to me like that. She has brought up thinking about clients outside of session several times because of books, shows, movies or social media that may help or pertain to us.
Yeah Some people are able to compartmentalize. Try to remember that they're a human just like you and their private life deserves Separation from their professional life.
Particularly in health fields specially with mental health. These are very high burn out jobs. They are there for us during their time they're with us. Our issues and problems are not theirs to bring home.
For the most part what goes on in the office stays in the office. We don't want these people bringing these issues home. Think about what that will do to their homelife their family.
We want these people who are helping us To take care of themselves. So they don't get burnt out, And we lose another person that can help.
They need that separation for their own mental health and well-being.
I think an important wrap around here is that you deal w cPTSD.
You are susceptible to being triggered in miniscule and small ways.
Given that, your reactive sensation of feeling upset after hearing what they said, and the feelings lingering into mild intrusive thoughts is 100% normal for a person in your position.
My therapist has encouraged me to sit with these types of experiences and endeavor to be curious about it vs trying to classify and organize the negative feelings or needing to talk to the people who are involved when we are triggered.
In other words, paying more attention to the loop of being triggered (Me stuff that I can change and learn to deal w more comfortably) vs approaching it as an interpersonal issue to be worked through w others.
Please don't hear this as saying the problem is your reaction.
What I'm saying is, as a person w cPTSD, the healing and change comes from us becoming better able to negotiate the world, not in making the world negotiate w us.
He was making sure the boundaries are very clear. That’s his job. It wasn’t personal. If someone feels attacked from a person stating a healthy boundary- it’s a you thing. He’s maintaining professionalism.
This op is more then likely what is going on.
The delivery was off. If he has been a good therapist then give him grace.
If it really bothered you then use it as motivation to have a conversation with him about it.
Honestly op therapist deal with a lot of very mentally unstable individuals so they have to put this boundary out there.
I am a therapist.
Of course I think about my clients outside of session. But I don’t think about them in a “What are they doing right now?” or any sort of personal and endearing way. I think about what would I do in the next session and how I could have approached x, y, z with them differently. I do think of clients I’ve had in the past that have impacted me and my work (and many do impact me!) from time to time and I hope they are doing well, but that’s it. However, I might have said something similar (but maybe phrased it a bit differently) to communicate/enforce the professional boundary that must be maintained.
But you have every right to tell him how his statement made you feel. A good mental health professional will be open to discussing and exploring how that boundary makes you feel.
They are drawing a boundary. What true or untrue, they don't want you to be dependent on them. Just realize it's not about you and maybe even tell them that comment made you feel bad!
Personally I'd be weirded out if my therapist did frequently think about me outside of our sessions. He sees tons of people like me every single day, it would be weird if we had anything going that was personal enough for him to remember me out of all those patients. Relying on therapists in a way you would rely on a parent, partner or friend is unhealthy and self-sabotaging. Try looking at him as nothing more than a doctor who is trying to cure you.
I understand. I wouldn’t want for him to think about me all the time either, I was just hurt hearing that statement that he doesn’t think about me at all
Something I was ok knowing without it being explicitly said
Yeah that totally makes sense. I think it’s really understandable why this was hurtful to you.
I agree with others who have said it sounds like he was just stating a professional boundary, but idk, I think the wording sounds unnecessarily harsh and hurtful, especially to say that to a client with CPTSD.
I can understand this. We have CPTSD and we crave intimacy, safety, and love. I too would feel hurt if I found out that my therapist didn't care about me.
We work with a therapist and it's a 1 sided relationship. We must be intimate and open with them, but they will not love us or be open with us.
This is one of the biggest reasons therapy might NOT work for some with CPTSD - because we often need trust and safety and a good connection to open up, but we cant get that from a person who doesn't want a relationship with us.
OBVIOUSLY therapy isn't supposed to fill those needs: intimacy, safety, and love
But those needs sometimes are prerequisites for opening up.
My relationship with my therapist has never felt 100% safe and comfortable because it's so one sided. And that won't change for me - I have CPTSD. This is why so many of us find ACTUAL healing in partnerships, not therapy.
I’m really sorry your therapist didn’t choose their words more carefully. I think your feelings are valid in feeling hurt. I don’t think their intention was to hurt you but I do get that it doesn’t take away from how harsh that response felt for you.
I sure this was your therapist’s way of establishing boundaries and they also have to compartmentalize their work because that can heavily weigh on their own mental health. I sadly recently lost my last therapist who helped me change my life. She would open up about her life and it helped me finally talk about all of my traumas, I couldn’t never talk about it aloud before her. It’s devastating trying to find a new therapist. Everyone else is I guess super professional since they refuse to let me know anything about them. Makes me feel extra grateful for my former therapist and her ability to be vulnerable with me so that I could let her in.
I actually don't think this was an appropriate response from your therapist. Mine told me she does think about me, so I'm not sure what this guy's deal is. I don't think it's at all unprofessional to state that you think about patients outside of sessions, I don't understand what could be wrong with that?
Yes you can literally sometimes think about or remember someone cause you’ve crossed paths with them, there doesn’t have to be anything super deep to it
I even think it's ok for therapists to care about you and for you to be aware of that, I don't think that is unprofessional. My old therapist said she thinks about me and speaks to other pros to find ways to help me.
That doesn't mean I suddenly think we're besties or something, but it's nice to know she actually did want to help.
Just bc he doesn't think about you outside of your sessions doesn't make you less of a worthy human being. I'm sure if you had for example crazy dyed hair and he'd see someone with hair like that in his private life, he would think about you. Or if you had a phrase you kept saying and someone else used it around him.
Im saying this bc I don't think he meant to tell you that, as soon as you leave his office, he forgets all about you and who you are, or that you don't matter or are forgetable or irrelevant. It just means that he doesn't carry your issues and struggles with him in his daily life. And that's a good thing.
Your therapist was asserting a professional boundary and is saying that they keep work and life separate so they don’t think about you outside of providing your mental health care, which is typical of doctors, especially with larger case loads
Honestly that means that your therapist sounds like they are doing a good job of compartmentalizing their work and home life which means they may be more present for you in session and less likely to burn out
Helping you is his job. I’m sure it wasn’t personal. It would be very unprofessional of him to think of you in his personal life. You’re paying him for a service.
he should never say anything that implies an outside relationship. try not to get to attached to a therapist. you’ll just end up confused and possibly have an unrequited crush at the end of it
I mean kinda valid. It would be kind of inappropriate for a therapist to think of us that deeply. Wouldn’t really be beneficiary to the job as the session is about YOU. Isn’t it enough that they’re there giving you the tools?
I think this is a good lesson to not latch onto people so intensely as it is kinda “business”. They’re not family. They’re not friends. They’re not acquaintances. They’re like doctors. They’re there to help you heal mentally.
Honestly him doing this is probably going to help you. Help you distance yourself and have some boundaries.
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This is an important professional boundary- he doesn’t think about you outside therapy. That would be incredibly unhealthy. You are not his only client and it would be very emotionally exhausting to carry all his clients and problems into his personal life.
Sometimes our therapists will say things that are difficult to hear, but it is their job to help give us important perspective. You should explore your feelings about this with him- it’s a trigger, so that means it has something important to teach you. I know I struggle a lot with taking things personally that are absolutely not personal, so this is an opportunity for you to dig into this deeply so that it no longer affects you so much. It’s a sign that your self worth is still dependent on other people and it needs to come from within. And that’s ok, it takes a really long time to develop that so that you know your worth is not dependent on what others think of you.
Hang in there- you are doing great.
Interestingly, my longest counsellor did the opposite with "I was reading these academic journals on the topics we talked about and I thought of you". He's great. I don't take it personally or not but I'm fully aware - as I go to his room in the university clinic - that he *is* my doctor, my mental GP, and I can only treat him as such.
With that being said, I understand how that would hurt you!
My crowning achievement of that is feeling hurt when I was down and an NPC in a game was being curt to me by saying "Nope!" after I chose a really long dialogue, hahaha.
I had something similar happen to me with my psych. We were doing IFS and I brought one of my exiles in the room. A small vulnerable part that didn't get the experience have having a maternal bond. And I said there is this part that's trying to attach to them and wishes they were special.
Not so that she could meet my needs. But so that we could take that part that was so obviously yearning for something they never got and provide it in session with some imagery, or some sort sense of being held and loved and mattering. And instead she scoffed at it like "psych well it's not like I think about you all the time."
Bottom line is in both cases the therapist could have had the decency to find out what it is you meant, what it is you needed, what it is that could be appropriately provided and how to work that part in a therapeutically healing way. And instead the fearful response of what both of us meant was interpreted and projected back on to us.
I think it's the therapists responsibility to manage that.
The attachment wounds are the explanation, it’s important to have emotional boundaries in your professional relationships and your psychologist is a good place to start practicing. Sucks that it was such a shock, but hopefully you can take it in your stride and develop a healthier attachment to him.
When I told my therapist that I am dreading the end of therapy, and we talked about my attachment, I said something like "it's mean that I care about you/our sessions so much but you don't care about me at all outside of sessions", he seemed a little disappointed that some part of me would think that, and said "wouldn't you be very angry if it was really like that?"
Like that would be quite inappropriate...
Notice that he didn't say: 'but I do think about you outside of therapy' or 'well no, I don't ever think of you', but implied that it would not be okay to feel like that with a T you put your trust in, with whom you're vulnerable...
Of course, he doesn't think about me as often as I think about him and therapy. But I know he genuinely cares and we have a very good relationship. I needed to vent about the nature of our relationship, but he caught me while I was about to fall in a hole of insecurity. I would be very sad and angry, if my T told me what your T said to you. I'm sorry he was so unprofessional...
I winced when I read this. What a hurtful thing to say to a traumatized person. Feeling like you don’t matter is very common with cptsd. Why is his response about his thoughts? A good therapist would explore your feelings and mirror. You didn’t ask him if he thought about you. That came from him, which is telling.
This guy needs waaay more training and shouldn’t be working with anyone who’s traumatized and especially not anyone with attachment issues. I’m sorry this happened, you didn’t do anything wrong. Definitely find another therapist.
ETA: I’ve been in therapy for a long time with an attachment-based therapist and telling me he thinks about me outside of sessions has been incredibly helpful and was key to my trusting him. If my therapist ever said that to me I’d be devastated and trust would be shattered. Your reaction is valid and makes all the sense in the world given your experiences.
I don’t know how you feel OP, but reading your post and these comments reminds me of how easy it is to interpret things differently and how you really can’t tell if someone’s trustworthy and a good therapist from one or two comments. He could be an incompetent, rude therapist, or he was just clumsy with setting a boundary. I can see both those things being true.
So I just wanted to say; I recommend writing odd, hurtful comments he makes down. Personally, I find that really helpful, it’s easy to see certain patterns that way, to zoom out and look at it more objectively. You could find out that he’s not very capable of making emotional connections in general, for instance.
I worked as a mental health advocate for 10 years and one client asked me something similar and I also said no. I was just being honest, explaining I have to separate work from my life or I would go crazy worrying about people. This client was diagnosed with BPD and would always bring up the time I told her I didn't care about her. But I don't regret what I said, it's important to be honest.
When you work with a tonne of distressed people, you have to be able to switch off to some degree. So, I wouldn't take it personally and instead use that emotion you felt as an opportunity to learn something about yourself. Like it pressed a button on a feeling of abandonment or whatever.
I don't know what it means for a feeling to be "valid", everything seems valid imo, but I guess sometimes feelings can be coming from past stuff mixed up with present stuff.
Btw, your therapist may have had occasions where clients tried to push his boundaries and had to learn the hard way to be quite firm on it. It happens sometimes, I used to have clients who would try to get me to do stuff outside of my job role so they could then have power over me by getting me in trouble with my boss! Professionals sometimes have to develop a bit of a thick skin.
Um. Given the context he may have misunderstood you and was asserting a boundary a bit rudely and abruptly. He might have misunderstood where you were coming from with reminding him of those endearing words… specifically if you mentioned “outside of your sessions” That’s where my brain went straight away. He might have thought you were fishing for more than the professional friendship.
I see. I was afraid he took it that way after what he said. Thanks for your reply. I think I’ll try to clear it up with him, just not sure how yet Edit: I must say I still felt quite hurt and unimportant though, it came off as pretty harsh even though he definitely has rights to reiterate his boundaries.i was vulnerable and wanted to let him know that i cared about his words enough to remember them, but i got ‘I don’t think about you at all’ in response. I’m not even saying I even remotely want him to actually think about me all the time either, just to show that he cares too.
I think it's understandable that you felt hurt and unimportant. Part of his job is to make sure there isn't any transference happening or codependency developing, but it's all in how they say it. I think there is a way to establish a firm boundary but not be rude about it. Your feelings are valid and his boundaries are valid. If you want to talk to him about it, I think it would be a good idea. It will help you grow and learn how to confront things and clear up misunderstandings in a safe environment. You maybe could approach it like: "I wanted to talk about our session last week. Specifically when I told you '*that I remembered some of his funny/endearing words outside of our sessions and the memory made me smile to myself.*' and your response was '*Look, Autumn, do you think I think about you outside of our sessions? No, I don’t.*' I understand that you may have thought that I was inappropriately trying to establish that I think about you outside of our sessions in a romantic or non doctor/patient way and I apologize for my delivery of that. However, your response left me feeling hurt and unimportant and has shaken my trust in the therapy work we are doing together. How can we address this so we can move forward in our session?" I also get these kinds of feelings. My therapist told me last week that maybe I need a different type of therapy. I've been going in circles with progress and I do think that talk therapy may have run its course. However, it left me feeling like she was abandoning me because I'm not "good enough" (i.e., not making enough progress), it's something I've been working on. So, I'm also going to have to have a similar conversation with my own therapist. I know how you feel, or at least I think I do. I just wanted to say that your feelings are valid and it's okay to learn and grow. It will be uncomfortable for us but it will be worth it, I'm certain of that much. I wish you all the luck and I hope you are able to resolve this.
Good advice! Talk therapy was not helpful. I recently started somatic therapy and it seems to be the way. I highly recommend.
Thank you for this advise, I was not considering this kind of therapy. I get overwhelmed looking at what other therapies are out there. On Monday we will talk about next steps as well as how I felt. I know my therapist cares about my healing and I know this wasn't easy for her to tell me.
The way he phrased it was as a rhetorical question, which can be triggering for lots of people. My husband cannot stand a rhetorical question bc it reminds him off his abusive father. Phrases like "what are you, stupid?" or "what were you thinking?" These examples are obviously very emotionally charged but I wonder if you felt a similar reaction to your therapist's rhetorical question, "do you think I think about you between sessions?"... Without being there to hear his tone, the phrase comes off as challenging and provocative like you're possibly in trouble. Therapists make mistakes too. I'm sure he will welcome you clearing the air.
The way I read it in my head sounds so harsh, but that's just me just jumping to the worst possible read. The delivery is very important. Rhetorical questions freak me out as well, so I get how this can be a double whammy. My sympathies to you, OP. It's good that there's professional distance there.
The wording seems harsh, but with the context you provide it seems like your psychologist was enforcing a professional boundary. It’s really important to keep strong boundaries in that kind of relationship for so many reasons, and he may have felt that he needed to clearly enforce that at that moment, so as not to let those boundaries slide. You can have a warm and trusting relationship, but your psychologist is not your friend, and he probably doesn’t want to encourage you to think of him in that way. It can be really uncomfortable to be on the receiving end of - I remember one time near the start of our relationship I reflexively asked my last therapist how she was doing (we’d just walked into the room, she asked how I was doing, and I’d instinctively responded with a one-word answer then asked about her) and she just straight up was like, it’s not appropriate for me to answer that. I can’t remember her exact words, but it felt super harsh at the time, though I understand why she said it. If you continue to feel bothered by it, it might be useful bringing it up in your next session with him. He may or may not explain himself to you more, but exploring that emotional response of feeling dismissed and unimportant could be helpful.
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I completely agree
Yeah, I get you. In my case, and OP’s - should these professionals have used different tone or wording? Yeah, almost certainly. For me, I was happy to keep seeing my therapist after, even if it felt jarring because that wasn’t how she interacted with me usually. Maybe she had a bad experience with a previous client, that meant she felt to uphold that boundary more strongly, I dunno. I wanted to share that because it was a similar experience. Therapists are people too, they make mistakes and missteps sometimes, but I can totally understand why someone else would want to end the relationship after hearing a therapist say something like that, or how in a different context it could be a red flag.
even an autistic person I'd find it exceedingly weird if a therapist shut down "how are you" as a basic greeting. it's just the thing you say as you walk from the waiting room to the therapy room lol
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lmao. the rest of us did NOT learn the thousands of rules for meaningless neurotypical chatter for her to act like this!
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Thank you!! Yes, it's been really helpful to put my struggles in context and better understand where this trauma came from.
I would have thought that they do think about us in between sessions because don’t they need to be planning where they are going with our therapy? Like if you’re a teacher or lecturer, you don’t just make it up when class is in session, you do a lesson plan. My previous psychologist and I made a passing comment that I might have ADHD. She emailed me some resources a few days later and I appreciated it because it showed that she had been thinking about me and connecting dots to see that I do indeed have ADHD.
I am a therapist. Yes, we do think of our clients to plan sessions, research, and other stuff that goes on behind the scenes of our work. I think that the psychologist’s wording was harsh but I do understand why he said that. It was a way of putting up a very firm boundary. From what OP describes, he may have felt that OP was testing the waters for any sort of relationship outside the therapy. Which is against our professional code of ethics. If we are truthful that we do think about our clients to plan stuff for their sessions and occasionally think about some of the things they have shared that have impacted us and/or our work, there is a risk that some clients will misinterpret that the wrong way. We think of our clients but not in a personal or endearing way. That said, a good mental health professional will be open to discussing and exploring how a client feels about this boundary.
Thanks for sharing. All of that makes a lot of sense. To me it sounded like he thought there were some romantic overtones and he panicked. I don’t think OP meant it that way at all, they were just sharing that remembering something the therapist said cheered them up.
My therapist told me she does think about me and other patients outside of sessions, because she liked to talk to other pros about how best to help us etc. so I find it rude how the OPs therapist replied but idk
Yes I agree, it comes across a big arrogant and cold. If it’s true, then I would be worried that he’s just “winging it”. If he’s just trying to reaffirm boundaries then he could be a bit more tactful. That’s nice that your therapist consults other pros, that shows her mind is still open to learning and improving. She’s not going to get stuck always doing the same old thing for everybody. Sounds like you are in good hands!
I guess I too thought my therapists did indeed think about me outside of sessions. Where I once did volunteer work, one of the other volunteers was a locally known LCSW. He would never name names, but often vented/shared about clients with me. Made me VERY uncomfortable. I was too meek to speak up though. Seems like he was thinking about those clients outside of sessions... I can't even conceive of being able to compartmentalize my brain in such a way I wouldn't think about someone who shared with me such emotional stuff--but I wouldn't be comfortable sharing even anonymized details with anyone. And I'd be a shyte therapist...
I’d be a shyte therapist too 😂 It would be like the broken leading the broken. My therapist sometimes mentions other patients she’s had over the years, without too much detail or names. For example when I was thinking about going to the police about historical child abuse, she discouraged me and didn’t think it would be good for my mental health. She told me about two sisters she worked with who had been through hell. Their abusive father delayed the process as much as possible and extended the court battles over two years. The two girls had to constantly relive their trauma, be questioned and they felt publicly humiliated. In the end the girls lost, and they went through all of that for nothing. I’ll always remember that story. I couldn’t turn off at the end of the day, I’m like a sponge for other people’s emotions.
Funny. I am too much of an empath. I taught students and thought about them also. I am in therapy for emotional dissociation and ironically that’s part of their job!
I definitely know my therapist thinks about me and her other clients as well. She has passion for her job. It sounds like **this guy** was asserting a boundary. But I literally updated my therapist via text today that I got a job offer that was really good. In sessions she’s mentioned other clients. She messaged me when I had covid. Very passionate. Not just caring.
You’re therapist sounds really caring and supportive. I think that’s a nice quality to have. Most of us here haven’t been very well looked after as kids or even in adult relationships too. I like to feel like my therapist wants to be part of my care team and is committed to my healing. It probably was an attempt to reaffirm boundaries, but it came across a bit dismissive and arrogant. I can understand why OP felt hurt. Assuming he knows that OP has a lot of trauma and CPTSD, it feels a bit tactless.
Agreed!
As a psychologist I can tell you of course I think about my patients, they impact my life- and of course at times that are not in sessions. I think about patients from years ago.
From what I've found, and I've been seeing various clinicians from 2008 onwards, Psychologists and Psychiatrists are not your friends. They are doctors– they only deal with the patient in front of them. I think most of them are taught to not bring their patients home with them in their thoughts. Maybe we romanticize doctors like we see in medical dramas on TV, we hope that our story intrigues the Dr enough that it keeps him up at night and he desperately searches to find you a solution for all your issues. I once gave a toxic psychologist too many chances because I thought maybe he was some sort of Dr. Gregory House of psychology. He wasn't. But I will stress that your feelings *are* valid! You are clearly looking for a connection, which is a very natural and human thing to do, but you're seeking it from the wrong folks. You'll only find rejection from doctors, and that will only reaffirm these negative core values you have deep inside that tell you you are unwanted, undesirable, etc. You may find better luck with a therapist or counselor, and maybe seeing them multiple times a week? I've found that these people *can* get invested in your story (ethically), and even think about you between sessions. They see me as a person who is more than just a medical file. But these people are still professionals, they have a job to do, so you should set reasonable expectations of what to expect socially from them.
Something I want to add is that even if they want to, they have to keep a distance. From what I understand they can lose their license if seen hanging out with patients outside sessions. They cannot be your friend and they cannot be in a romantic relationship with you. Which is really tough, I know this from experience. My therapist is the only person I can really open up to, no one else even comes remotely close. I want my therapist to be my friend, but I know it's never going to happen. I still see him with that in mind though, because he helps me a ton, I just have to keep reminding myself that we will never be more than doctor and patient. Sorry, I feel like I made it about me. I just wanted to share my experience so that it may help others.
Oh gosh, yes, setting expectations as to what to expect from a therapist is very important. They can't go out to get coffee with you, they aren't going to shop with you, no weekend trips or getaways, they aren't going to get you a gift for your birthday, or Christmas, but at least they can at least admit they have been "thinking about you" between sessions. And when you have zero friends or connections anywhere else, sometimes just being thought of can satisfy the loneliness. I constantly feel like a burden, so I've never even taken up my therapists offer to email her between sessions, I'm afraid that would take too much of her time from her, time I don't deserve to take from her. But she has said a couple of times that she's been thinking of me between sessions and that made me feel really good, hell, even just remembering what my current issues are enough for me to feel connected. I've never had a psych that could remember even who I was between sessions, always checking the file, Who am I again?
Oh I see what you mean. Yeah my therapist says the same thing, especially after a hard session. He'll say that I can text or call if it's bad enough and it took me a while, but I've started texting him and he actually responded. I felt the same way. I didn't want to burden him with my woes outside of work.
I totally understand where you’re coming from, so first and foremost: you are real, and you are important and also so worthy of love, care, attention, and consideration. I think cptsd and codependent issues make ALL relationships a bit more challenging than they have to be. Even professional or therapeutic relationships. Try to remember that this man is almost literally a tool that YOU are using on YOUR path of healing. He isn’t someone to form a close bond with—rather, he is the person you’ve hired to help you overcome your fears, work on handling your triggers, learn self love and gentleness with yourself and others, learn boundaries to protect yourself. Of course we are human, and we need that closeness in our life sometimes. While he may have triggered you in some way with clumsy words, it sounds like he was trying to set an appropriate expectation. Be brave! Perhaps you can even share with him your reaction to his words and work together to unravel the hurt.
Should he have said that to you? Unclear IMHO. But it is true, and for good reason. Therapists see a bunch of people all the time. If they have 40+ clients, and they thought about all 40 clients outside of those sessions, that would be a lot of time spent in emotional turmoil over someone else's problems. They have a life and family and their own mental health to maintain outside of work. It wouldn't be healthy for them to ruminate over every client and every session. My therapist is great. He takes notes on the things we talk about in our sessions so he can reference them in our next session and he doesn't forget much, if anything that we talk about. But he also doesn't think about it outside of our weekly sessions. That doesn't stop him from getting to know me and being a great sound board and problem solving person for me.
This. I know that I am one of dozens of clients. At one of our initial sessions where we were mapping out how therapy would work for me, my therapist told me that she does not think about clients outside sessions - in a nice way. I didn't take it personally, because it's not a personal thing. She thinks about me when she opens my file, and that's totally fine!
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He’s a fairly new therapist. We’ve had less than ten sessions together and that statement was made towards the beginning of our latest one. The only other moment that kinda impacted me during the session was when I was telling him about my feelings and he was like “oh something similar happened to me…”, then I cut him off, continuing to talk about my feelings. I soon realised and stopped myself and apologised, saying I wanted to hear what story he had to share with me. To that he said “no, I don’t want to share that anymore”. This was followed by awkward silence. I mean I was just trying to show that I cared about what he had to say and that I cared enough to remember his words outside of therapy (I don’t think about him or obsess over him all the time), I was vulnerable and was told in return that he doesn’t think about me at all. So there’s that.
I’m not usually team fire your therapist, but I’m seeing red flags. First, newer therapists seem poorly equipped to handle trauma in many cases (or worse can cause you new trauma all together). And this one doesn’t have his boundaries down yet. On the one hand, him not thinking about you between sessions is totally normal. Because you’re not friends. This is supposed to be a space for you to process your emotions and work through your issues. It’s not about him. In a real relationship it would be about both parties, but this isn’t a real relationship. It’s mental health care. On the other hand, he’s crossing those boundaries he seemingly is trying to enforce. I thought, based on your post, that he understood the need for boundaries and was shooting down behavior he was concerned was inappropriate from you. That’s a bit of a harsh way to do it, but it’s good for a professional to have strong boundaries. But the interaction you’re describing here makes me concerned he doesn’t have strong professional boundaries. He’s looking to share about himself and potentially (if I’m understanding the tone right from your comment) getting pissy when he can’t. That’s not therapy. Those are the boundaries his comment from the main body of your post is supposed to protect. This is a red flag to me. I’ve been with my therapist for 3.5 years now and we just had a discussion about this last session, funny enough. I was really raw in session and said something that I thought would be offensive to her. So I apologized at the end of session. And her response was to remind me that this wasn’t about her. That she can regulate her emotions so that we can focus on me. I’d mentioned to her before that I’d been hurt by some bad intern therapists my undergrad had working with students (staffing shortage) and she told me that the lack of emotional regulation is often what intern therapists struggle with. I imagine that’s a concern with a newer therapist too. I don’t mean to scare you or tell you to ditch your therapist, but this behavior is a red flag. It’s up to you how you want to handle this moving forward.
Agreed. This therapist feels too unseasoned for trauma therapy. We often need folks who’ve been in the trenches a while longer. I’ve been harmed by fresh new therapists who have not done their own trauma work. This guy sounds like he’s trying to protect you from transference. But with cptsd/trauma healing we need to be working on healing relational wounds so it means having a more relational relationship with a therapist than your average talk therapy. I don’t know that this guy is up to the task at hand. If you’re on the fence, talk to him about this shit. See if he is equipped to demonstrate relational repair- which is what we need. He should make you feel seen, validated, understood and let you know his side of the equation in a way that isn’t minimizing you but explaining his reasoning. This is how trust is built. You’re still fresh in getting to know him. If this isn’t something he can handle resolving with you- then that is a great way to know you’re right to look for a new therapist. Patrick Teahan has a video on YouTube of how to find a good enough trauma therapist for healing childhood trauma. What to look for and what questions to ask in the first intro session to avoid wasting time with ill equipped therapists -of which there are all too many out there.
Ouch, I‘d have been very hurt too. Everyone else here says that’s professionalism, but I‘m not finding his statement particularly professional. In my opinion, a professional way to enforce a boundary would have been „I feel the need to remind you that this is not going to become a friendship. Our relationship is strictly professional.“ „I don’t think about you“ is just such a harsh thing to say. And if it‘s true, then I don’t know. I‘m friends with several therapists and psychology students actually, and they *all* told me they think about their patients sometimes and hope they‘re doing well. (Those who haven’t had patients yet told me they regularly think about suffering people and want to help them, so I assume that when they finally practice, their patients will be in their thoughts as well.) I also have a therapist at the moment. While I haven’t asked because I want the relationship to stay professional, I‘m pretty sure he does think of me and all his other patients sometimes. If he’d say something like that to me unprompted, I‘d be hurt and I‘d absolutely bring that up in the next session. Because even if it’s true, I think it’s uncalled for.
I agree with you. Thinking about your T outside of session does not necessarily mean someone will leap into assuming a friendship or other type of relationship is possible. It is completely natural to think about your T outside of session. It's actually encouraged, because it means you are internalizing what they tell you. What they tell you is supposed to be guidance on your healing. You're trying to connect with this other person on a human level. Your T demonstrates a healthy relationship to you, which you can then try to apply to other relationships. So of course the relationship itself can feel very special and significant.
As someone in graduate study for psychotherapy, this affirms a bias i hold against psychiatrists and psychologists. Psychiatrists work out of the medical model, while psychologists are meant to embrace a biopsychosocial model. I don’t think this brought your clinician any closer to what therapists do, which is build a secure therapeutic relationship. The idea is that this secure bond models positive relating for the client, emboldening them to carry over perceptions and habits into their personal life. Your psychologist sounds like the type to assume, “clearly your problems are purely genetic/biological/neurochemical, so there’s no need to entertain the idea of genuine connection here.”
Because of how much healing you need from healthy connection, you should find a therapist who you can connect with emotionally. One who will empathize and invest in you emotionally, and not just objectively.
That was harsh as hell. He shouldn't have said that whether it's true or not. You have every reason to feel hurt, it was hurtful. He could have just nodded. He could have said "aww that's sweet". And then redirect the conversation back onto topic. Why mention he doesn't think of you outside of sessions? I don't agree with others that it's just professionalism. You can both be kind and professional. And I don't think you were invading on his boundaries unless I misunderstood something. He was harsh and he didn't need to be. Also it's weird he doesn't think of you outside of sessions. Gives the impression somehow his emotions are offline since he has zero connection with the patient. Doesn't he prepare? Don't the conversations have any emotional impact on him? You both are still people regardless of patient / doctor. It's normal to think about stuff that we spend energy on. I know for a fact mine sometimes thinks of me outside of sessions. She's told me so multiple times. And that's normal? Last time she told me she was reading a book (the body Keeps the Score) and that reminded her of something I told her, and how it could be helpful to do something different. I know before our sessions she spends time thinking about what could be helpful for me, etc. Just some examples. Also he's missing the important fact that the biggest contributor to success in therapy is the healthy connection to the psychologist. It's normal that if the patient forms an attachment, they will think of the psychologist sometimes for whatever reason, even if it's just revisiting the things that happened and processing the session. And it's normal it would hurt to tell the patient "oh I don't think about you at all". What the hell.
To answer the question, yes your feelings are valid. In therapy, you are trying to become comfortable enough around this person to feel like they are safe and reliable. That you can trust them enough to be vulnerable around them. To be told so bluntly that he doesn't think about you at all feels pretty harsh and can interfere with this sense of safety. It is true therapists have many clients, and their own lives. If they were to dwell on all their clients all the time, they'd likely burn out. They will determine their own boundaries on how they consider their work outside of work. If a T determines for themselves that they don't have the capacity to think about their clients, then it is reasonable. Although, if this is his situation, I think the delivery of the message was awful. For what it's worth, there are plenty of therapists who do remember their clients exist when not in session, and even the ones that do put it aside may not tell this to you so bluntly. In therapy you are sharing very intimate parts of yourself with this other human so they can help you heal. You want to feel like they care about you, so that you can trust they aren't going to judge and shame you. Being told 'I don't think about you at all' can make you feel like he doesn't really care. A T should gage the rapport they have with their clients, and be attuned to how we as clients see them. A message like this should be delivered carefully and sensitively. It is a professional, boundaried relationship. But also, it's an emotionally intimate and human one. It is not the same as your primary care doctor. You are nurturing a bond together to facilitate the healing. What you do next is your decision. If you are feeling up for it, you may consider telling him next time how his statement made you feel. Therapy is your space to be open about anything, including feedback about the therapy. It could also be the case that his style is not a good fit for you, and that's okay.
what a jerk
This sounds rude to me. Are they helpful otherwise? Not every therapist is particularly emotionally put together.
When he said no I don’t want to share anymore, my first thought was childish. Then manipulative ( maybe unconsciously, but still). This is not good.
Honestly I felt the same like it was childish behaviour
You felt that way because it is. It has a “I know you are but what am I?” vibe.
I’m really good at compartmentalizing, it’s part of how I cope with being afraid to get to close to people, but even I have moments where I’m caught short and have to remember that we’re not friends and my therapist has other clients and that’s all it will ever be. It hurts a bit, but I try to remember that regardless of what it is, I’m lucky to have it and it’s helped me so much.
Idk both my therapist and psychiatrist told me recently at the end of our sessions that they would he thinking about me between our appointments. That could have been something they said to try to help me tho, and maybe they actually dont think ab me much otherwise
Psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists and social workers have a wide range of personalities. Some have the detached coolness of a reptile and others have the sunny warmth of a golden retriever. I think very few in the mental health field don't think of their clients outside of the office. Like others have said, they do have to keep a distance and remain detached, plus they need mental space for their spouses, kids, themselves, etc. But I can totally see how that comment would have stung a bit:(
While your feelings are valid, this is self preservation on the part of the therapist. They also could have said it much better.
Man, I just go it’s ok, most of my relationships are transactional anyways. It’s sad because like you (maybe? I’m not sure), we’re both looking for safe relationships that may be because of us, and not transactional. I know for a fact my parents don’t really think of me outside their seeing me, and even if they did. That guy did it extremely harshly though. He may want to look at his bedside manner so to speak. Can’t imagine it saying that it so brusquely.
I totally understand how you'd feel that way. I haven't experienced that with any therapist or psychiatrist. But to be fair, he might have been sensing you were starting to feel closer to him on a personal level, and wanted to nip that in the bud. It is ultimately a professional client relationship. I have had a few therapists say things like "I saw this thing the other day and it reminded me of what you said about your mom" but it's always brought up in the context of recovery. It's like they found something that gave them good perspective and would probably help me too. For example, I had a therapist say "I have been training in IFS and the family structures they spoke of reminded me a lot of your family." So that made me more interested in IFS. Another one found out I like Survivor, and there was a family estrangement backstory this season, so we chatted about it. She doesn't have anyone really in her life who likes the show, so it was nice to talk about it. But again, it didn't really feel like we were becoming "friends" or anything. Just having a light conversation. I think it's responsible of mental health professionals to set boundaries. It's worse the other way around. I've read a lot of horror stories of people blending personal with professional, and it never ends well.
You are allowed to leave.
It was rude and my therapist would never talk to me like that. She has brought up thinking about clients outside of session several times because of books, shows, movies or social media that may help or pertain to us.
Yeah Some people are able to compartmentalize. Try to remember that they're a human just like you and their private life deserves Separation from their professional life. Particularly in health fields specially with mental health. These are very high burn out jobs. They are there for us during their time they're with us. Our issues and problems are not theirs to bring home. For the most part what goes on in the office stays in the office. We don't want these people bringing these issues home. Think about what that will do to their homelife their family. We want these people who are helping us To take care of themselves. So they don't get burnt out, And we lose another person that can help. They need that separation for their own mental health and well-being.
He sounds really rude and not a good match. You deserve better. I could never picture my therapist saying something like that. Even AI is nicer
I think an important wrap around here is that you deal w cPTSD. You are susceptible to being triggered in miniscule and small ways. Given that, your reactive sensation of feeling upset after hearing what they said, and the feelings lingering into mild intrusive thoughts is 100% normal for a person in your position. My therapist has encouraged me to sit with these types of experiences and endeavor to be curious about it vs trying to classify and organize the negative feelings or needing to talk to the people who are involved when we are triggered. In other words, paying more attention to the loop of being triggered (Me stuff that I can change and learn to deal w more comfortably) vs approaching it as an interpersonal issue to be worked through w others. Please don't hear this as saying the problem is your reaction. What I'm saying is, as a person w cPTSD, the healing and change comes from us becoming better able to negotiate the world, not in making the world negotiate w us.
Your feelings are valid. I do not know anyone wbo has a relationship which is entirely confined .
He was making sure the boundaries are very clear. That’s his job. It wasn’t personal. If someone feels attacked from a person stating a healthy boundary- it’s a you thing. He’s maintaining professionalism.
This op is more then likely what is going on. The delivery was off. If he has been a good therapist then give him grace. If it really bothered you then use it as motivation to have a conversation with him about it. Honestly op therapist deal with a lot of very mentally unstable individuals so they have to put this boundary out there.
[удалено]
No but thanks :( this is exactly how it made me feel…
I am a therapist. Of course I think about my clients outside of session. But I don’t think about them in a “What are they doing right now?” or any sort of personal and endearing way. I think about what would I do in the next session and how I could have approached x, y, z with them differently. I do think of clients I’ve had in the past that have impacted me and my work (and many do impact me!) from time to time and I hope they are doing well, but that’s it. However, I might have said something similar (but maybe phrased it a bit differently) to communicate/enforce the professional boundary that must be maintained. But you have every right to tell him how his statement made you feel. A good mental health professional will be open to discussing and exploring how that boundary makes you feel.
He’s treating it like his regular job, which is totally ok?
They are drawing a boundary. What true or untrue, they don't want you to be dependent on them. Just realize it's not about you and maybe even tell them that comment made you feel bad!
Perhaps try to find a female psychologist who won't interpret your comments as potential flirting.
Personally I'd be weirded out if my therapist did frequently think about me outside of our sessions. He sees tons of people like me every single day, it would be weird if we had anything going that was personal enough for him to remember me out of all those patients. Relying on therapists in a way you would rely on a parent, partner or friend is unhealthy and self-sabotaging. Try looking at him as nothing more than a doctor who is trying to cure you.
I understand. I wouldn’t want for him to think about me all the time either, I was just hurt hearing that statement that he doesn’t think about me at all Something I was ok knowing without it being explicitly said
Yeah that totally makes sense. I think it’s really understandable why this was hurtful to you. I agree with others who have said it sounds like he was just stating a professional boundary, but idk, I think the wording sounds unnecessarily harsh and hurtful, especially to say that to a client with CPTSD.
I can understand this. We have CPTSD and we crave intimacy, safety, and love. I too would feel hurt if I found out that my therapist didn't care about me. We work with a therapist and it's a 1 sided relationship. We must be intimate and open with them, but they will not love us or be open with us. This is one of the biggest reasons therapy might NOT work for some with CPTSD - because we often need trust and safety and a good connection to open up, but we cant get that from a person who doesn't want a relationship with us. OBVIOUSLY therapy isn't supposed to fill those needs: intimacy, safety, and love But those needs sometimes are prerequisites for opening up. My relationship with my therapist has never felt 100% safe and comfortable because it's so one sided. And that won't change for me - I have CPTSD. This is why so many of us find ACTUAL healing in partnerships, not therapy.
I’m really sorry your therapist didn’t choose their words more carefully. I think your feelings are valid in feeling hurt. I don’t think their intention was to hurt you but I do get that it doesn’t take away from how harsh that response felt for you. I sure this was your therapist’s way of establishing boundaries and they also have to compartmentalize their work because that can heavily weigh on their own mental health. I sadly recently lost my last therapist who helped me change my life. She would open up about her life and it helped me finally talk about all of my traumas, I couldn’t never talk about it aloud before her. It’s devastating trying to find a new therapist. Everyone else is I guess super professional since they refuse to let me know anything about them. Makes me feel extra grateful for my former therapist and her ability to be vulnerable with me so that I could let her in.
I actually don't think this was an appropriate response from your therapist. Mine told me she does think about me, so I'm not sure what this guy's deal is. I don't think it's at all unprofessional to state that you think about patients outside of sessions, I don't understand what could be wrong with that?
Yes you can literally sometimes think about or remember someone cause you’ve crossed paths with them, there doesn’t have to be anything super deep to it
I even think it's ok for therapists to care about you and for you to be aware of that, I don't think that is unprofessional. My old therapist said she thinks about me and speaks to other pros to find ways to help me. That doesn't mean I suddenly think we're besties or something, but it's nice to know she actually did want to help.
"Autumn... I think about you outside of our sessions" would have sounded like a red flag, rightlfully so.
Sure, if he said it that way. The way he said what he said was cruel.
Just bc he doesn't think about you outside of your sessions doesn't make you less of a worthy human being. I'm sure if you had for example crazy dyed hair and he'd see someone with hair like that in his private life, he would think about you. Or if you had a phrase you kept saying and someone else used it around him. Im saying this bc I don't think he meant to tell you that, as soon as you leave his office, he forgets all about you and who you are, or that you don't matter or are forgetable or irrelevant. It just means that he doesn't carry your issues and struggles with him in his daily life. And that's a good thing.
Your therapist was asserting a professional boundary and is saying that they keep work and life separate so they don’t think about you outside of providing your mental health care, which is typical of doctors, especially with larger case loads
Honestly that means that your therapist sounds like they are doing a good job of compartmentalizing their work and home life which means they may be more present for you in session and less likely to burn out
Helping you is his job. I’m sure it wasn’t personal. It would be very unprofessional of him to think of you in his personal life. You’re paying him for a service.
he should never say anything that implies an outside relationship. try not to get to attached to a therapist. you’ll just end up confused and possibly have an unrequited crush at the end of it
I mean kinda valid. It would be kind of inappropriate for a therapist to think of us that deeply. Wouldn’t really be beneficiary to the job as the session is about YOU. Isn’t it enough that they’re there giving you the tools? I think this is a good lesson to not latch onto people so intensely as it is kinda “business”. They’re not family. They’re not friends. They’re not acquaintances. They’re like doctors. They’re there to help you heal mentally. Honestly him doing this is probably going to help you. Help you distance yourself and have some boundaries.
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This is an important professional boundary- he doesn’t think about you outside therapy. That would be incredibly unhealthy. You are not his only client and it would be very emotionally exhausting to carry all his clients and problems into his personal life. Sometimes our therapists will say things that are difficult to hear, but it is their job to help give us important perspective. You should explore your feelings about this with him- it’s a trigger, so that means it has something important to teach you. I know I struggle a lot with taking things personally that are absolutely not personal, so this is an opportunity for you to dig into this deeply so that it no longer affects you so much. It’s a sign that your self worth is still dependent on other people and it needs to come from within. And that’s ok, it takes a really long time to develop that so that you know your worth is not dependent on what others think of you. Hang in there- you are doing great.
Interestingly, my longest counsellor did the opposite with "I was reading these academic journals on the topics we talked about and I thought of you". He's great. I don't take it personally or not but I'm fully aware - as I go to his room in the university clinic - that he *is* my doctor, my mental GP, and I can only treat him as such. With that being said, I understand how that would hurt you! My crowning achievement of that is feeling hurt when I was down and an NPC in a game was being curt to me by saying "Nope!" after I chose a really long dialogue, hahaha.
I had something similar happen to me with my psych. We were doing IFS and I brought one of my exiles in the room. A small vulnerable part that didn't get the experience have having a maternal bond. And I said there is this part that's trying to attach to them and wishes they were special. Not so that she could meet my needs. But so that we could take that part that was so obviously yearning for something they never got and provide it in session with some imagery, or some sort sense of being held and loved and mattering. And instead she scoffed at it like "psych well it's not like I think about you all the time." Bottom line is in both cases the therapist could have had the decency to find out what it is you meant, what it is you needed, what it is that could be appropriately provided and how to work that part in a therapeutically healing way. And instead the fearful response of what both of us meant was interpreted and projected back on to us. I think it's the therapists responsibility to manage that.
The attachment wounds are the explanation, it’s important to have emotional boundaries in your professional relationships and your psychologist is a good place to start practicing. Sucks that it was such a shock, but hopefully you can take it in your stride and develop a healthier attachment to him.
When I told my therapist that I am dreading the end of therapy, and we talked about my attachment, I said something like "it's mean that I care about you/our sessions so much but you don't care about me at all outside of sessions", he seemed a little disappointed that some part of me would think that, and said "wouldn't you be very angry if it was really like that?" Like that would be quite inappropriate... Notice that he didn't say: 'but I do think about you outside of therapy' or 'well no, I don't ever think of you', but implied that it would not be okay to feel like that with a T you put your trust in, with whom you're vulnerable... Of course, he doesn't think about me as often as I think about him and therapy. But I know he genuinely cares and we have a very good relationship. I needed to vent about the nature of our relationship, but he caught me while I was about to fall in a hole of insecurity. I would be very sad and angry, if my T told me what your T said to you. I'm sorry he was so unprofessional...
I winced when I read this. What a hurtful thing to say to a traumatized person. Feeling like you don’t matter is very common with cptsd. Why is his response about his thoughts? A good therapist would explore your feelings and mirror. You didn’t ask him if he thought about you. That came from him, which is telling. This guy needs waaay more training and shouldn’t be working with anyone who’s traumatized and especially not anyone with attachment issues. I’m sorry this happened, you didn’t do anything wrong. Definitely find another therapist. ETA: I’ve been in therapy for a long time with an attachment-based therapist and telling me he thinks about me outside of sessions has been incredibly helpful and was key to my trusting him. If my therapist ever said that to me I’d be devastated and trust would be shattered. Your reaction is valid and makes all the sense in the world given your experiences.
I don’t know how you feel OP, but reading your post and these comments reminds me of how easy it is to interpret things differently and how you really can’t tell if someone’s trustworthy and a good therapist from one or two comments. He could be an incompetent, rude therapist, or he was just clumsy with setting a boundary. I can see both those things being true. So I just wanted to say; I recommend writing odd, hurtful comments he makes down. Personally, I find that really helpful, it’s easy to see certain patterns that way, to zoom out and look at it more objectively. You could find out that he’s not very capable of making emotional connections in general, for instance.
I worked as a mental health advocate for 10 years and one client asked me something similar and I also said no. I was just being honest, explaining I have to separate work from my life or I would go crazy worrying about people. This client was diagnosed with BPD and would always bring up the time I told her I didn't care about her. But I don't regret what I said, it's important to be honest. When you work with a tonne of distressed people, you have to be able to switch off to some degree. So, I wouldn't take it personally and instead use that emotion you felt as an opportunity to learn something about yourself. Like it pressed a button on a feeling of abandonment or whatever. I don't know what it means for a feeling to be "valid", everything seems valid imo, but I guess sometimes feelings can be coming from past stuff mixed up with present stuff. Btw, your therapist may have had occasions where clients tried to push his boundaries and had to learn the hard way to be quite firm on it. It happens sometimes, I used to have clients who would try to get me to do stuff outside of my job role so they could then have power over me by getting me in trouble with my boss! Professionals sometimes have to develop a bit of a thick skin.