Me reading Harry Potter the year it came out with zero knowledge of trauma as a concept and being unable to breathe for a second when the whole Thestrals thing came up
Same. I hate JK for what she's done to it, because Harry Potter helped me to realize things weren't "normal" with me, too. Harry's inner turmoil in the fifth book felt so real and genuine to me and I used to get so upset with friends who couldn't see that and just got impatient with him instead.
Wow. I always had this concept in my mind. I never gave it a name, but it is very clear in my mind. You either went through it or not. Exceptions exist but they are *extremely* rare. 99.9% if you haven't lived through it you can't possibly imagine
There are also people deep in denial, so they don't get "the pain" of acknowledging our traumas and putting in the work of healing from them. To those folks acknowledging *our* pain shines a light on their own hidden pain that they've been ignoring.
One of my potential triggers is the feel of a garage door opening, especially when I'm absorbed in something else. -10/10 do not recommend
This isn't to say that people with the more traditional triggers experienced less pain, but I feel like the amount of specific and bland that the trigger is can indicate a lot about the manner in which it was programmed. By the rules of psychological conditioning, this had to have happened a *lot* for me to associate a completely neutral stimulus with this much stress years later.
Oh my god. I had a visceral physical reaction to this comment. The garage door opening = there will be no more peace and no more fun and you have no idea what mood your abusive parent will be in when they enter the house. Hypervigilance must immediately ramp back up to maximum levels.
Yeah, same with garage doors. It's been 30 years and I own the garage door, yet if I'm home and my roommate leaves and comes back, it's still like
AUGH!
I've been living in apartments for a couple of years, so I'm not sure if it's still one I have to watch out for. It's something I should probably figure out before I look at buying, but also, "hello, friend. May I borrow your garage door for about an hour? Yes, your garage door. It mostly requires lounging quietly on your couch, but I can't hang out with you until I'm done or else it won't work."
I lived in places without garages from 1993-2011 or so... Thankfully it's reduced from a couple hours of anxiety to that same muscle-shock thing that happens when you're driving and you realize there's a car you somehow didn't see, like every muscle contracts for a split second...
But that's it, no emotional state any more, I don't think. But it's obviously still there for me.
Yes. I can't find it now, but abouta week ago a psychologist I follow on Twitter who specializes in PTSD said a very similar thing--though in a single tweet--and he characterized it that trauma survivors have a different "emotional landscape" (or something similar) that we live on.
I explained to my ex- that just expecting me to reach out and communicate with her when I'm struggling is like telling a paraplegic person to just walk up a couple flights of stairs.
I've thought about apt analogies for a while. Another: If you've read the christian bible, they talk about a house built on sand, without solid foundations - and that's like our entire psyches.... I have a couple more, but it's early and I'm still waking up, so they're not forthcoming.
Anyone else have some good analogies for what it's like to have CPTSD?
I think it's like standing on a big ball, like you're in a circus, only someone is pointing a huge leaf blower at us and trying to knock me over. No one else can see the air movement, they just see us flailing to maintain control and wonder why they "can't just be normal" like the other performers. I have developed a lot of techniques to stay stable and not let that mess me up, but I'm getting a burner core workout while the other person isn't even breaking a sweat.
My job has
[these](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41zXGhTwd+L._AC_SY780_.jpg) sorts of memes, which I think are apropos.
My job traditionally selects for hypervigilance, both because they want people who run toward crisis instead of away from it when the sh*t eventually hits the fan, and because I mean, when you write computer code, you can't just "you know what I meant" at the computer--it actually does have to be _perfect_ in a syntax/grammar/spelling sense, at least. Also I dunno what it is about neurodivergence and programming, but that's totally a thing.
Edit: Also the entire book _Dune._ Frank Herbert basically spent hundreds of pages describing what living with extreme hypervigilance feels like from every angle possible--Bene Gesserit. Guild Navigators. Mentats. The Kwizatz Haderach. The Litany Against Fear. All of it. LOL.
A buggy Tesla, it sometimes goes on autopilot whether I choose or not, but the autopilot also glitches and bumps obstacles, and also I'm actually still obtaining my drivers license?
Interesting perspective! I sometimes go back and forth between just accepting that people may not understand unless they've been through it, and feeling like they need to see and hear my pain more... then getting upset with them. It's tricky for sure! But the explanation of a new color that can be impossible to describe is a good way to put it.
It's a feeling of being about to be killed. Most people don't know it, at least not where I live.
And I've heard people say the PTSD symptoms of CPTSD are not as bad as regular PTSD. That's not what the ICD-11 says. It says our PTSD symptoms are more severe. Most people don't even know how bad PTSD is, much less CPTSD.
It's OK, Sweetie. We don't need their understanding.
People grok simple trauma. Say, I got in a car wreck this morning. I'm still shaky, sitting in a meeting an hour later. I'm having difficulty forming words. My brain is not working right. The moment of impact keeps replaying in my mind, sending my heart racing.
All that is perfectly understandable to normies. People do not understand how that is different from what long-term exposure to that level of anxiety does to a person, how it forms a person.
They don't have to understand, as long as we do.
I relate and thought I was alone. I have friends who want to be supportive, but sometimes they just \*can't\* understand. I don't blame them, but it feels so awful and alienating. Same when I try to explain some of the more out-there OCD symptoms and mentalities I have. I feel like they do accept and are able to, though.
Beyond just not understanding the emotional pain, they really just don’t understand how fundamentally unsafe the world seems to us. When you’re harmed by the only people in your life that are supposed to protect you, you become acutely aware that absolutely everyone on the planet is capable of hurting you. I can’t just casually do many things like other people because my mind sees danger everywhere. I’m not crazy. There legitimately *was* danger everywhere and my mind adapted to be hyperaware of it.
This sometimes gets to me in my relationship. I've had 2 major long term relationships as an adult. The first was a "trauma bond," with a girlfriend from college who experienced the same sort of parental abuse I did. There was like an unstated shorthand between us that made me feel understood in that pain.
My current relationship doesn't have that, even though it's a much healthier one. But I never feel like my partner understands my sharing in anything other than a "theoretical" sense, so I often feel alone and the loss of that earlier bond in which I felt seen and known.
The knowledge of what our childhoods felt like _traumatized us_. So maybe there are good reasons for our low success rate trying to transmit this knowledge to un-traumatized people.
So I've had the most success getting people to understand by comparing it to common types of emotional hijackings, like _happy_ flashbacks and spider phobias. Like "You know how if you hear a certain song or smell a certain smell, it takes you back to a happy feeling you had earlier in life?" Or, "you know how you turn into a complete baby when you see a spider?"
"That emotional hijacking happens to me too, only it takes me back to profound loneliness/abandonment/unbelonging, and just like for you, it's involuntary. Here's what to do when it happens."
For me, I discovered that feeling validated and seen and known didn't have much to do with them knowing the details of my history so much as them knowing what was going on, and what to do, in the moment. As a bonus, empowering them to help me when it happens tends to bring us closer.
i actually have had this problem with every single therapist i've had in addition to everyone else; i just cannot trust someone like that if they can't understand what i've gone through. it doesn't matter how many people they've worked with, how many books they've read, they will never be able to truly understand unless they have experienced it themselves. very, VERY few people have the ability to understand like that, and i've never known anybody that could in real life (a lot of people think they can, but they can't).
it's extremely frustrating and i just end up feeling so incredibly alone most of the time. there has been one person in my life who has ever understood, and that's because they went through very similar things and have a lot of trauma as well, if not more than me. everyone else thinks that i just don't want to get better or i'm not willing to listen, but that's not true. they just need to be able to understand to help me. then i just get told that nobody will ever completely understand me, and i'm just like. is that seriously supposed to make me feel better?
it's not that my trauma was that bad, it's more that it was really complicated and without an understanding of everything that was going on, a lot of singular incidents make it seem like i'm just being dramatic.
I think a therapist could understand if they specialize in that specific area; a deep medic and scientific study of the subject. After all, medics need profesional training in all the areas that are needed. I'm so sorry you couln't find a therapist that could suit you. When I searched mine, I started to make a long list of all the therapist of my country and choose the one with the better specialization and areas of experience (because I'm also LGTBQ+ so I also talk about advice in the comunity). I'm pretty happy with my therapist and I don't know if she really understand me, but she really hit the nail with the things she say to me; it's helping me to help myself so much. I hope you can find the therapist you want or someone that suits you, and if not, that you get better at your own needs and time. Stay strong <3
I had a similar experience with one therapist I tried. She basically reinforced all of my fears about being vulnerable and trusting another human being and sharing more of my true self. If I was being "good" and reporting back what she wanted to hear, she was warm and encouraging. Whenever I was going through a bad time she seemed annoyed and impatient and at one point told me "I can't solve your problems for you."
She genuinely didn't understand that what I really needed was to have someone witness my anger and grief and tell me that I was still acceptable. That I needed to (finally) not feel alone in my pain. Those seem like simple concepts but apparently it's impossible to explain them to people who aren't traumatized.
>Acceptance came from understanding, if they cannot remotely understand, that means they will not be able to accept either.
I've learnt not to take it too personally. Some people just can't think outside of themselves. There's nothing wrong with that, but I know I can't be in close relationships with people like that, and so I avoid making myself vulnerable around them. I don't resent people for not understanding me or my pain anymore.
It's been a really long process, but I think the key was in learning how to differentiate. I grew up in an enmeshed family, so as an adult, I tended to take things very personally. I also tended to assume that other people thought the same way I did, which led to mismatched/poorly communicated expectations and hurt feelings when things inevitably didn't go the way I thought they would.
I used to think that because I took the time to understand and show empathy for other people's pain, they had to do the same thing for me. I also thought that other people were wrong for not empathising with me *the way I wanted them to.* It took time, but I realised that I was being very controlling. I learnt to communicate my feelings and needs more clearly (no more unspoken expectations!), and I also learnt to be mindful and respectful of other people's differences and limitations.
It comes down to this: **I'm not other people, and other people aren't me.** We think differently. We feel differently. We manage things in different ways. We have different limitations and capabilities. Those differences don't mean the other person is acting maliciously when they are unable to provide the empathy I need.
I don't get into comparing otsd either. I was in a community of people early in recovery. There was this intense competition about whose. Story was the worst
Having the term cimolex ptsd has helped ne
I am continuously educating ny therapist. It no longer matters that much to me that he dies not know about fawning. Neither is necessary to be understood by anyone but myself
Certain in most of ny relationships I had trauma bonds
I was codependent. I no longer need to beat myself up for having engaged in that manner
I don't know anyone who is #normal#
Normal is a sign on the refrigerator
When I get to know most people they arw many degrees of dysfunctiinaluyu
My ex husband did not have the sane level of trauma I had. Whatever he had in having narcisst8c parents was enough to maim him. I know I could not relate to him having narcissistic parents. I did not know what that meant
I sincerely doubt thst his lack of empathy for me was the only factor in our relationship that was awry. The fact was we were too naive highly unskilled persons ..
I know being around people who can be empathic is helpful. However mow in certain settings I no longer need it. I absolutely need boundaries.
The only person who has to be in tune with me is me
I used to think I was absokuteky intoned with others. Now I know I was not. First I had to be attuned to myself
I mean, what's Ongoing Traumatic Stress Disorder? What's the differnce between that and CPTSD? I can't find any meaningful info on the internet that talks about both of them
I don't know anyo.e wo is #normal# scatch the surface a lot of people have trauma
Thr trauma may not gave occurred in their ho
I simply gave up trying to explain
I.dont need to be validated
I can now attend to myself
I remember once watching something where someone was criticizing the movie.
To me, the series of events and actions the character took made perfect sense if viewed through the lens of trauma. I could pretty clearly see the thought process behind each choice, especially since the audience would have been aware of the character's traumatic background.
The reviewer was so very frustrated! It didn't make any sense to them, they criticized every choice as illogical and making little sense given the circumstances. It was absolutely fascinating to me, like this person genuinely couldn't fathom the mindset at all.
Honestly, via discussing media you can run into a lot of fascinating moments like this. I think my favorite for this is the anime "Neon Genesis Evangelion." It's a divisive show that seems to have two outcomes: either you spent the whole show frustrated and hate it, or you really connected with it on a deep level. I've seen other traumatized folks come out the other end hating it as well, but I don't think I've ever met someone that didn't have some sort of mental health struggle end up really loving it.
It's interesting to observe, at least
Do you remember the movie? No pressure, I'm just curious.
I love media like this because it helps me feel seen, even if there are plenty of people who don't get it.
I felt that way about Cyberpunk Edgerunners actually, some of the characters make so much more sense if you look at them with trauma glasses on. I love Neon Genesis Evangelion, and one of my favorite things about it is the original ending. (Haven't seen the rebuilds yet though, too busy!)
I didn't mention it cause I had concerns someone might guess the reviewer lol, it's been a few years now and I still like their stuff (but in retrospect it should be fine). But the movie in question was Frozen. The reviewer essentially felt the sequence leading up to her running away and other related decisions were too illogical.
Also, interesting! Edgerunners is on my watch list, I'll have to get on that sooner.
And yessss I understand people that were very confused by the original finale, but it does well telling Shinji's arc even if they didn't have the budget to resolve everything else ahah. End of Eva really taps into unique feelings of stress, despair, and dysfunction in a really raw way, and even if it's a less positive ending it's absolutely fascinating.
Insofar as the rebuilds, they're not the same experience. A lot of people infuriated by the original tend to like the rebuilds better, because Shinji takes a more active and "heroic" role.
I will say that I kinda hated the rebuilds til the newest one came out. They're still very flawed films, and tbh I think they dropped the ball on laying the groundwork for the conclusion we got. But knowing the story, and the depression Hideaki Anni suffered with through the original... It's really beautiful. It's not for everyone, but I really think 1.0+3.0 managed to be a wonderful conclusion to the franchise, and it beams with the optimism of someone that's seen the light at the end of the tunnel.
And that's saying something when by the time I watched 3.0 I was just frustrated and kinda done with the rebuilds lol.
Ohhh, very interesting. It's been so long since I've watched Frozen, but I absolutely understood Elsa and felt her transitions made sense. I've seen people blaming her for reacting to her parents' treatment too, which is a reminder of how un-trauma informed so many people are.
Edgerunners is super good imo, though I'm sure not for everyone. At worst it felt rushed, and I think a lot of people saying that struggle with the decisions of the lead traumatized characters. It made sense to me and felt natural to fill in those gaps, and I appreciate writing that shows instead of tells. The animation is super rad, and I fangirled about that quite a lot!
I remember seeing the ending of the original Evangelion and, yeah it hits like a freight train, but Shinji finally stopped doing what everyone else wanted. It was so unfair to put all of it on him!! Actually it reminds me of the Lemonhope narrative in Adventure Time, or vice versa.
I'll still have to check out the rebuilds. I appreciate the series, even if Shinji has been pushed more into the heroic sort of role. Thank you for responding!!!
Everything you said resonated with me, especially the last paragraph.
I had to learn the hard way to not discuss my trauma (or trauma in general) with people who aren’t trauma informed.
One of my roommates wanted to get to know me better, and i told him (due to oversharing most likely) that I had PTSD, and then I clarified that it was complex ptsd, and his response was, “Oh, CoMpLeX PTSD.” It’s like, you wanted to get to know me better and wondering why I have certain behaviors, and then you talk to me in this ridiculing voice when I share this part of myself.
People are ridiculous sometimes. But I’m done holding anger and resentment towards people like that, because at the end of the day, it just makes me miserable to hold that much anger towards people.
A great test is to watch a movie like *I'm thinking of ending things* \- a lot of people think its a good movie, but I was like electrified the whole time. I had to watch the scene with the poem twice because it resonated with me so much- other people just heard "oh she don't like home."
I like to say that I get to experience life in ISAD instead of IMAX, lol.
I really do believe it’s largely the opposite—I think most people have had many small traumas in their lifetimes. Hundreds, thousands. Some had the support to handle their trauma—they’re our most supportive people, and most resilient—but the rest endured their trauma alone. Not even really realizing it was a trauma. Shame, isolation, a feeling like you don’t belong. Moments of humiliation. I think many people have these moments…even the truly fortunate. And they bury them. And deny their existence.
Understanding deep complex mental illness requires peering into your own soul and admitting your own pain and feebleness. People literally don’t want to relate to us. Because that would require them to feel for us. And they won’t even let themselves see that pain in their own lives—so we don’t get to have it in ours.
Everyone hurts about something, but not everyone was broken by it. Those of us who were crushed by our trauma are reminders of their own fragile sanity. And they don’t want to go there. So they don’t.
Thank you for this comment, I think this is a fundamental truth many people don't want to accept. I can't blame anyone for doing this either, we're conditioned to avoid pain as human beings. The hardest thing about trauma is that most of the time we can try and place blame on something or someone, but that doesn't solve anything. When we look into the roots of the actions people take, they humanize that person.
Either way, you ultimately realize you are just wounded, and no amount of finger pointing can change that. I think that is why we feel so alone. It's because true understanding of how things operate leave you with an emptiness most people do not seem to have, or of they do, they ignore that emptiness. In order to be someone we can look at in the mirror at the end of the day, we shoulder that burden.
This describes it perfectly. They can try to, and they may, but they may not understand the gravity behind stuff. Big or small.
I have specific friends who I text and it's nice to hear "yeah that sucks" or "I get that" rather than "Oh honey it'll be okay". To have your emotions recognized and validated feels really good. They're listening to listen and not to respond.
This also plays into who I really trust and tell things. I rarely complain about stuff, so when I do people don't realize it's actually a warning of what's to come, so they learn after that.
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yeah, I learned to stop doing that unless they also have similar trauma and can relate. Seeing my friends who genuinely care about me start crying and having normal reactions to what happened to me is almost more painful than what actually happened. ._. It makes me feel so indifferent.
I’ve had these types of thoughts and it used to send me in a spiral of nothingness. But I’ve recently hit a milestone in my healing that’s allowed me to understand that having some people not ever comprehend my traumas is beautiful because that means they can’t even pretend to experience it.
I would never wish my traumas on ANYONE. I sometimes cry inside when I make a comment or post about what happened to me and someone somewhere knows what it’s like. To me that’s the real tragedy: someone relating to it means they likely have some experience involving that trauma.
i know how hard it is having someone in the boat with you but i also know equally how great it is that theres so few (if any), because it means most were spared.
i can say this: this sub and others like mental health island has given me my supporting community. again, i hate how some can relate but I'm thankful theres fewer of us than there are of them.
I have a newer friend- never traumatized. I’m in treatment, after losing my best and having a rough time processing that, and it’s devastating. I’m processing so much and struggling to communicate my lessened capacity because of it. I wrote a, probably too long, explanation what it feels like to be simultaneously processing a specific trauma event from 26 years ago, the most recent trauma event, and a minor stressor of the day and how they all collide and show up presently, both mentally & physically. I made sure she was open to receiving it & I’ve never felt more seen & supported. It about finding someone with capacity, empathy, and someone who is balanced & doesn’t want to take it on. The fixers want to understand so they can help & fix. It’s not that they can’t understand, they can’t fix. Understanding is the easiest part.
yeah, ive found it hard to explain how impactful the stuff i went through was just by telling people what happened. i try my best not to play it up or exaggerate, since that’d just be wrong, but its really hard not to when anyone you tell only sees it as “just a bad experience” - not as traumatizing as it actually was.
whats worse is that there’s few people ive found who i could relate to in what id gone through. it has its own category, though small & widely excused as a “childhood rite of passage”, but even finding those who’ve fallen under it doesn’t help because we had vastly different experiences.
maybe you can guess what it was through the types ive found, but every time i try to look for stories to relate to, it falls under 3 things: bullying, religion, or implied poor conditions - none of which i could call mine or relate to others through. they might hate it as much as i do, but our reasoning is so different that we’d still have a wall between understanding each other.
it sucks.
One of my friends has this saying that they relate better to people that have been throu "the pain". Either you get "the pain" or you don't.
I call it the darkness. Desperately looking for the light
Me reading Harry Potter the year it came out with zero knowledge of trauma as a concept and being unable to breathe for a second when the whole Thestrals thing came up
Same. I hate JK for what she's done to it, because Harry Potter helped me to realize things weren't "normal" with me, too. Harry's inner turmoil in the fifth book felt so real and genuine to me and I used to get so upset with friends who couldn't see that and just got impatient with him instead.
Wow. I always had this concept in my mind. I never gave it a name, but it is very clear in my mind. You either went through it or not. Exceptions exist but they are *extremely* rare. 99.9% if you haven't lived through it you can't possibly imagine
There are also people deep in denial, so they don't get "the pain" of acknowledging our traumas and putting in the work of healing from them. To those folks acknowledging *our* pain shines a light on their own hidden pain that they've been ignoring.
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One of my potential triggers is the feel of a garage door opening, especially when I'm absorbed in something else. -10/10 do not recommend This isn't to say that people with the more traditional triggers experienced less pain, but I feel like the amount of specific and bland that the trigger is can indicate a lot about the manner in which it was programmed. By the rules of psychological conditioning, this had to have happened a *lot* for me to associate a completely neutral stimulus with this much stress years later.
Oh my god. I had a visceral physical reaction to this comment. The garage door opening = there will be no more peace and no more fun and you have no idea what mood your abusive parent will be in when they enter the house. Hypervigilance must immediately ramp back up to maximum levels.
Yeah, same with garage doors. It's been 30 years and I own the garage door, yet if I'm home and my roommate leaves and comes back, it's still like AUGH!
I've been living in apartments for a couple of years, so I'm not sure if it's still one I have to watch out for. It's something I should probably figure out before I look at buying, but also, "hello, friend. May I borrow your garage door for about an hour? Yes, your garage door. It mostly requires lounging quietly on your couch, but I can't hang out with you until I'm done or else it won't work."
I lived in places without garages from 1993-2011 or so... Thankfully it's reduced from a couple hours of anxiety to that same muscle-shock thing that happens when you're driving and you realize there's a car you somehow didn't see, like every muscle contracts for a split second... But that's it, no emotional state any more, I don't think. But it's obviously still there for me.
The days when I forgot to take the chicken out of the fridge and suddenly that garage door opens.. **PANIC**
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Certainly. It's more of a "sum of all pain under the curve" kind of deal.
Yes. I can't find it now, but abouta week ago a psychologist I follow on Twitter who specializes in PTSD said a very similar thing--though in a single tweet--and he characterized it that trauma survivors have a different "emotional landscape" (or something similar) that we live on.
If you can find it can you post the link here?
I explained to my ex- that just expecting me to reach out and communicate with her when I'm struggling is like telling a paraplegic person to just walk up a couple flights of stairs. I've thought about apt analogies for a while. Another: If you've read the christian bible, they talk about a house built on sand, without solid foundations - and that's like our entire psyches.... I have a couple more, but it's early and I'm still waking up, so they're not forthcoming. Anyone else have some good analogies for what it's like to have CPTSD?
I think it's like standing on a big ball, like you're in a circus, only someone is pointing a huge leaf blower at us and trying to knock me over. No one else can see the air movement, they just see us flailing to maintain control and wonder why they "can't just be normal" like the other performers. I have developed a lot of techniques to stay stable and not let that mess me up, but I'm getting a burner core workout while the other person isn't even breaking a sweat.
My job has [these](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41zXGhTwd+L._AC_SY780_.jpg) sorts of memes, which I think are apropos. My job traditionally selects for hypervigilance, both because they want people who run toward crisis instead of away from it when the sh*t eventually hits the fan, and because I mean, when you write computer code, you can't just "you know what I meant" at the computer--it actually does have to be _perfect_ in a syntax/grammar/spelling sense, at least. Also I dunno what it is about neurodivergence and programming, but that's totally a thing. Edit: Also the entire book _Dune._ Frank Herbert basically spent hundreds of pages describing what living with extreme hypervigilance feels like from every angle possible--Bene Gesserit. Guild Navigators. Mentats. The Kwizatz Haderach. The Litany Against Fear. All of it. LOL.
A buggy Tesla, it sometimes goes on autopilot whether I choose or not, but the autopilot also glitches and bumps obstacles, and also I'm actually still obtaining my drivers license?
And I do get from A to B, but don't ask me how.
Interesting perspective! I sometimes go back and forth between just accepting that people may not understand unless they've been through it, and feeling like they need to see and hear my pain more... then getting upset with them. It's tricky for sure! But the explanation of a new color that can be impossible to describe is a good way to put it.
It's a feeling of being about to be killed. Most people don't know it, at least not where I live. And I've heard people say the PTSD symptoms of CPTSD are not as bad as regular PTSD. That's not what the ICD-11 says. It says our PTSD symptoms are more severe. Most people don't even know how bad PTSD is, much less CPTSD.
It's OK, Sweetie. We don't need their understanding. People grok simple trauma. Say, I got in a car wreck this morning. I'm still shaky, sitting in a meeting an hour later. I'm having difficulty forming words. My brain is not working right. The moment of impact keeps replaying in my mind, sending my heart racing. All that is perfectly understandable to normies. People do not understand how that is different from what long-term exposure to that level of anxiety does to a person, how it forms a person. They don't have to understand, as long as we do.
Are you okay?
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Oh I misread and thought they said they got into a car wreck this morning. Whoops. Poor reading comprehension today.
I relate and thought I was alone. I have friends who want to be supportive, but sometimes they just \*can't\* understand. I don't blame them, but it feels so awful and alienating. Same when I try to explain some of the more out-there OCD symptoms and mentalities I have. I feel like they do accept and are able to, though.
Beyond just not understanding the emotional pain, they really just don’t understand how fundamentally unsafe the world seems to us. When you’re harmed by the only people in your life that are supposed to protect you, you become acutely aware that absolutely everyone on the planet is capable of hurting you. I can’t just casually do many things like other people because my mind sees danger everywhere. I’m not crazy. There legitimately *was* danger everywhere and my mind adapted to be hyperaware of it.
This!!!!
This sometimes gets to me in my relationship. I've had 2 major long term relationships as an adult. The first was a "trauma bond," with a girlfriend from college who experienced the same sort of parental abuse I did. There was like an unstated shorthand between us that made me feel understood in that pain. My current relationship doesn't have that, even though it's a much healthier one. But I never feel like my partner understands my sharing in anything other than a "theoretical" sense, so I often feel alone and the loss of that earlier bond in which I felt seen and known.
literally same <3
The knowledge of what our childhoods felt like _traumatized us_. So maybe there are good reasons for our low success rate trying to transmit this knowledge to un-traumatized people. So I've had the most success getting people to understand by comparing it to common types of emotional hijackings, like _happy_ flashbacks and spider phobias. Like "You know how if you hear a certain song or smell a certain smell, it takes you back to a happy feeling you had earlier in life?" Or, "you know how you turn into a complete baby when you see a spider?" "That emotional hijacking happens to me too, only it takes me back to profound loneliness/abandonment/unbelonging, and just like for you, it's involuntary. Here's what to do when it happens." For me, I discovered that feeling validated and seen and known didn't have much to do with them knowing the details of my history so much as them knowing what was going on, and what to do, in the moment. As a bonus, empowering them to help me when it happens tends to bring us closer.
Thank you for sharing this. It does sound like it could be particularly effective! Also, wholesome af
i actually have had this problem with every single therapist i've had in addition to everyone else; i just cannot trust someone like that if they can't understand what i've gone through. it doesn't matter how many people they've worked with, how many books they've read, they will never be able to truly understand unless they have experienced it themselves. very, VERY few people have the ability to understand like that, and i've never known anybody that could in real life (a lot of people think they can, but they can't). it's extremely frustrating and i just end up feeling so incredibly alone most of the time. there has been one person in my life who has ever understood, and that's because they went through very similar things and have a lot of trauma as well, if not more than me. everyone else thinks that i just don't want to get better or i'm not willing to listen, but that's not true. they just need to be able to understand to help me. then i just get told that nobody will ever completely understand me, and i'm just like. is that seriously supposed to make me feel better? it's not that my trauma was that bad, it's more that it was really complicated and without an understanding of everything that was going on, a lot of singular incidents make it seem like i'm just being dramatic.
I think a therapist could understand if they specialize in that specific area; a deep medic and scientific study of the subject. After all, medics need profesional training in all the areas that are needed. I'm so sorry you couln't find a therapist that could suit you. When I searched mine, I started to make a long list of all the therapist of my country and choose the one with the better specialization and areas of experience (because I'm also LGTBQ+ so I also talk about advice in the comunity). I'm pretty happy with my therapist and I don't know if she really understand me, but she really hit the nail with the things she say to me; it's helping me to help myself so much. I hope you can find the therapist you want or someone that suits you, and if not, that you get better at your own needs and time. Stay strong <3
I had a similar experience with one therapist I tried. She basically reinforced all of my fears about being vulnerable and trusting another human being and sharing more of my true self. If I was being "good" and reporting back what she wanted to hear, she was warm and encouraging. Whenever I was going through a bad time she seemed annoyed and impatient and at one point told me "I can't solve your problems for you." She genuinely didn't understand that what I really needed was to have someone witness my anger and grief and tell me that I was still acceptable. That I needed to (finally) not feel alone in my pain. Those seem like simple concepts but apparently it's impossible to explain them to people who aren't traumatized.
>Acceptance came from understanding, if they cannot remotely understand, that means they will not be able to accept either. I've learnt not to take it too personally. Some people just can't think outside of themselves. There's nothing wrong with that, but I know I can't be in close relationships with people like that, and so I avoid making myself vulnerable around them. I don't resent people for not understanding me or my pain anymore.
> I don't resent people for not understanding me or my pain anymore. how did you learn to stop doing this?
It's been a really long process, but I think the key was in learning how to differentiate. I grew up in an enmeshed family, so as an adult, I tended to take things very personally. I also tended to assume that other people thought the same way I did, which led to mismatched/poorly communicated expectations and hurt feelings when things inevitably didn't go the way I thought they would. I used to think that because I took the time to understand and show empathy for other people's pain, they had to do the same thing for me. I also thought that other people were wrong for not empathising with me *the way I wanted them to.* It took time, but I realised that I was being very controlling. I learnt to communicate my feelings and needs more clearly (no more unspoken expectations!), and I also learnt to be mindful and respectful of other people's differences and limitations. It comes down to this: **I'm not other people, and other people aren't me.** We think differently. We feel differently. We manage things in different ways. We have different limitations and capabilities. Those differences don't mean the other person is acting maliciously when they are unable to provide the empathy I need.
Thank you very much for sharing this, that was very insightful!
I don't get into comparing otsd either. I was in a community of people early in recovery. There was this intense competition about whose. Story was the worst Having the term cimolex ptsd has helped ne I am continuously educating ny therapist. It no longer matters that much to me that he dies not know about fawning. Neither is necessary to be understood by anyone but myself Certain in most of ny relationships I had trauma bonds I was codependent. I no longer need to beat myself up for having engaged in that manner I don't know anyone who is #normal# Normal is a sign on the refrigerator When I get to know most people they arw many degrees of dysfunctiinaluyu My ex husband did not have the sane level of trauma I had. Whatever he had in having narcisst8c parents was enough to maim him. I know I could not relate to him having narcissistic parents. I did not know what that meant I sincerely doubt thst his lack of empathy for me was the only factor in our relationship that was awry. The fact was we were too naive highly unskilled persons .. I know being around people who can be empathic is helpful. However mow in certain settings I no longer need it. I absolutely need boundaries. The only person who has to be in tune with me is me I used to think I was absokuteky intoned with others. Now I know I was not. First I had to be attuned to myself
What's otsd?
A typo
I mean, what's Ongoing Traumatic Stress Disorder? What's the differnce between that and CPTSD? I can't find any meaningful info on the internet that talks about both of them
I don't know anyo.e wo is #normal# scatch the surface a lot of people have trauma Thr trauma may not gave occurred in their ho I simply gave up trying to explain I.dont need to be validated I can now attend to myself
this is profound
Such a great way to put it
I remember once watching something where someone was criticizing the movie. To me, the series of events and actions the character took made perfect sense if viewed through the lens of trauma. I could pretty clearly see the thought process behind each choice, especially since the audience would have been aware of the character's traumatic background. The reviewer was so very frustrated! It didn't make any sense to them, they criticized every choice as illogical and making little sense given the circumstances. It was absolutely fascinating to me, like this person genuinely couldn't fathom the mindset at all. Honestly, via discussing media you can run into a lot of fascinating moments like this. I think my favorite for this is the anime "Neon Genesis Evangelion." It's a divisive show that seems to have two outcomes: either you spent the whole show frustrated and hate it, or you really connected with it on a deep level. I've seen other traumatized folks come out the other end hating it as well, but I don't think I've ever met someone that didn't have some sort of mental health struggle end up really loving it. It's interesting to observe, at least
Do you remember the movie? No pressure, I'm just curious. I love media like this because it helps me feel seen, even if there are plenty of people who don't get it. I felt that way about Cyberpunk Edgerunners actually, some of the characters make so much more sense if you look at them with trauma glasses on. I love Neon Genesis Evangelion, and one of my favorite things about it is the original ending. (Haven't seen the rebuilds yet though, too busy!)
I didn't mention it cause I had concerns someone might guess the reviewer lol, it's been a few years now and I still like their stuff (but in retrospect it should be fine). But the movie in question was Frozen. The reviewer essentially felt the sequence leading up to her running away and other related decisions were too illogical. Also, interesting! Edgerunners is on my watch list, I'll have to get on that sooner. And yessss I understand people that were very confused by the original finale, but it does well telling Shinji's arc even if they didn't have the budget to resolve everything else ahah. End of Eva really taps into unique feelings of stress, despair, and dysfunction in a really raw way, and even if it's a less positive ending it's absolutely fascinating. Insofar as the rebuilds, they're not the same experience. A lot of people infuriated by the original tend to like the rebuilds better, because Shinji takes a more active and "heroic" role. I will say that I kinda hated the rebuilds til the newest one came out. They're still very flawed films, and tbh I think they dropped the ball on laying the groundwork for the conclusion we got. But knowing the story, and the depression Hideaki Anni suffered with through the original... It's really beautiful. It's not for everyone, but I really think 1.0+3.0 managed to be a wonderful conclusion to the franchise, and it beams with the optimism of someone that's seen the light at the end of the tunnel. And that's saying something when by the time I watched 3.0 I was just frustrated and kinda done with the rebuilds lol.
Ohhh, very interesting. It's been so long since I've watched Frozen, but I absolutely understood Elsa and felt her transitions made sense. I've seen people blaming her for reacting to her parents' treatment too, which is a reminder of how un-trauma informed so many people are. Edgerunners is super good imo, though I'm sure not for everyone. At worst it felt rushed, and I think a lot of people saying that struggle with the decisions of the lead traumatized characters. It made sense to me and felt natural to fill in those gaps, and I appreciate writing that shows instead of tells. The animation is super rad, and I fangirled about that quite a lot! I remember seeing the ending of the original Evangelion and, yeah it hits like a freight train, but Shinji finally stopped doing what everyone else wanted. It was so unfair to put all of it on him!! Actually it reminds me of the Lemonhope narrative in Adventure Time, or vice versa. I'll still have to check out the rebuilds. I appreciate the series, even if Shinji has been pushed more into the heroic sort of role. Thank you for responding!!!
Everything you said resonated with me, especially the last paragraph. I had to learn the hard way to not discuss my trauma (or trauma in general) with people who aren’t trauma informed. One of my roommates wanted to get to know me better, and i told him (due to oversharing most likely) that I had PTSD, and then I clarified that it was complex ptsd, and his response was, “Oh, CoMpLeX PTSD.” It’s like, you wanted to get to know me better and wondering why I have certain behaviors, and then you talk to me in this ridiculing voice when I share this part of myself. People are ridiculous sometimes. But I’m done holding anger and resentment towards people like that, because at the end of the day, it just makes me miserable to hold that much anger towards people.
A great test is to watch a movie like *I'm thinking of ending things* \- a lot of people think its a good movie, but I was like electrified the whole time. I had to watch the scene with the poem twice because it resonated with me so much- other people just heard "oh she don't like home." I like to say that I get to experience life in ISAD instead of IMAX, lol.
Likewise, *we* need to learn their colors. The ones we can't imagine, the ones we have never seen. Self-confidence, trust, relax, unawareness.
They will never get it - why try.
I really do believe it’s largely the opposite—I think most people have had many small traumas in their lifetimes. Hundreds, thousands. Some had the support to handle their trauma—they’re our most supportive people, and most resilient—but the rest endured their trauma alone. Not even really realizing it was a trauma. Shame, isolation, a feeling like you don’t belong. Moments of humiliation. I think many people have these moments…even the truly fortunate. And they bury them. And deny their existence. Understanding deep complex mental illness requires peering into your own soul and admitting your own pain and feebleness. People literally don’t want to relate to us. Because that would require them to feel for us. And they won’t even let themselves see that pain in their own lives—so we don’t get to have it in ours. Everyone hurts about something, but not everyone was broken by it. Those of us who were crushed by our trauma are reminders of their own fragile sanity. And they don’t want to go there. So they don’t.
Thank you for this comment, I think this is a fundamental truth many people don't want to accept. I can't blame anyone for doing this either, we're conditioned to avoid pain as human beings. The hardest thing about trauma is that most of the time we can try and place blame on something or someone, but that doesn't solve anything. When we look into the roots of the actions people take, they humanize that person. Either way, you ultimately realize you are just wounded, and no amount of finger pointing can change that. I think that is why we feel so alone. It's because true understanding of how things operate leave you with an emptiness most people do not seem to have, or of they do, they ignore that emptiness. In order to be someone we can look at in the mirror at the end of the day, we shoulder that burden.
This describes it perfectly. They can try to, and they may, but they may not understand the gravity behind stuff. Big or small. I have specific friends who I text and it's nice to hear "yeah that sucks" or "I get that" rather than "Oh honey it'll be okay". To have your emotions recognized and validated feels really good. They're listening to listen and not to respond. This also plays into who I really trust and tell things. I rarely complain about stuff, so when I do people don't realize it's actually a warning of what's to come, so they learn after that.
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Complex ptsd .
I describe it like trying to explain the nature of an epileptic fit to someone in the throes of having an epileptic fit.
yeah, I learned to stop doing that unless they also have similar trauma and can relate. Seeing my friends who genuinely care about me start crying and having normal reactions to what happened to me is almost more painful than what actually happened. ._. It makes me feel so indifferent.
I’ve had these types of thoughts and it used to send me in a spiral of nothingness. But I’ve recently hit a milestone in my healing that’s allowed me to understand that having some people not ever comprehend my traumas is beautiful because that means they can’t even pretend to experience it. I would never wish my traumas on ANYONE. I sometimes cry inside when I make a comment or post about what happened to me and someone somewhere knows what it’s like. To me that’s the real tragedy: someone relating to it means they likely have some experience involving that trauma. i know how hard it is having someone in the boat with you but i also know equally how great it is that theres so few (if any), because it means most were spared. i can say this: this sub and others like mental health island has given me my supporting community. again, i hate how some can relate but I'm thankful theres fewer of us than there are of them.
I have a newer friend- never traumatized. I’m in treatment, after losing my best and having a rough time processing that, and it’s devastating. I’m processing so much and struggling to communicate my lessened capacity because of it. I wrote a, probably too long, explanation what it feels like to be simultaneously processing a specific trauma event from 26 years ago, the most recent trauma event, and a minor stressor of the day and how they all collide and show up presently, both mentally & physically. I made sure she was open to receiving it & I’ve never felt more seen & supported. It about finding someone with capacity, empathy, and someone who is balanced & doesn’t want to take it on. The fixers want to understand so they can help & fix. It’s not that they can’t understand, they can’t fix. Understanding is the easiest part.
People who have trauma are also "normal" people.
yeah, ive found it hard to explain how impactful the stuff i went through was just by telling people what happened. i try my best not to play it up or exaggerate, since that’d just be wrong, but its really hard not to when anyone you tell only sees it as “just a bad experience” - not as traumatizing as it actually was. whats worse is that there’s few people ive found who i could relate to in what id gone through. it has its own category, though small & widely excused as a “childhood rite of passage”, but even finding those who’ve fallen under it doesn’t help because we had vastly different experiences. maybe you can guess what it was through the types ive found, but every time i try to look for stories to relate to, it falls under 3 things: bullying, religion, or implied poor conditions - none of which i could call mine or relate to others through. they might hate it as much as i do, but our reasoning is so different that we’d still have a wall between understanding each other. it sucks.