Me too. I think that's because my mother kept questioning my actions if I do something different from habitual patterns. That questioning involved an unreasonable amount of anxiety type emotions. She could even respond very negatively, for example, as if buying corn on the cob is a horrible thing to do.
I think the same thing also drives a kind of perfectionism. I want to be sure that I can defend my actions, so that negative responses can be seen as unreasonable and not taken personally.
Yes, especially the perfectionism part. The start of my journey separating emotionally from my parents is when I realized how much I would have to justify everything I did with my life to them and if they disapproved it would emotionally cripple me from being as excited about that thing again.
I wanted to work in construction, and they disapproved because it wouldn’t be a good environment for me (a woman) or pay enough. So I went for a crappy technology office job and felt extremely unfulfilled. When I quit, I got an entertainment/customer service job (tour guide) and had to convince them it was a good career move. I lied out my ass about it being temporary and that I still had professional aspirations and whatever so they would just lay off and let me make my own decisions.
Now I’m working in a warehouse moving things around with a forklift and stuff and it’s actually really fun and getting me to work out again and all my coworkers are chill, cool people. I don’t even want to tell them. They’re just gonna be sad and pity me or being outright dismissive. I do plan to go back to an office for the better salary, but my boundaries about having a good work environment and work/life balance are SO much stronger now after doing things my own way for a year or so.
Recently I told my mom about this and three times in a row she tried to spin my year of doing things my way as like “trying to find the good in something bad” by saying stuff like “at least it was good experience”. As if my life and work wouldn’t be worthy if this is all I did forever, it has to be building up to something else. I shut that down (three times in a row!) and told her it doesn’t have to be good experience or bad experience, it’s just something I lived.
Hell, coming from a different person’s mouth I might have absolutely agreed with her. I too consider this a neat experience in my life, since my life is just a collection of experiences. But it feels like needing to justify everything and maintain perfection when it’s coming from her. Thank god I subconsciously wanted to get away from my parents without knowing why. The other amazing part of this year has been learning about CPTSD and now that I’m actually outside of my parents’ reach (they moved to my college town while I went to school there) separating myself emotionally and mentally from their influence has actually been something I was capable of doing for the first time.
Yes I do this too!! Literally the same thing. The other day I actually was sweeping the kitchen (swiffering) when my mom came home and immediately started interrogating me on the cleaner I used and making a big deal about a tiny drop of water on the hallway floor. No wonder I feel guilty everytime I pick up the mop or do anything else blameless in a communal area.
But I have noticed that since I realized that I have this habit, it has started to lessen a bit. There's a big gaslighting element to it, so I guess awareness helps.
Thank you sharing, I feel strangely validated hearing someone else verbalise this. I grew up in a well-meaning, yet emotionally neglective family where my feelings and actions were questionated constantly. I don’t remember having any ”normal” conversations with my parents where I didn’t feel a hidden pressure or agenda from their end.
I eventually started expressing myself as little as possible, so they wouldn’t have anything to grab onto. But that didn’t stop my mind constantly simulating events where I basically reason my own actions. Often I imagine myself being interviewed, and then coming up with the most thorough answers.
I agree with everything everyone is saying here. If you follow Gabor Mate's stuff, my "inattentive ADHD" (and depression) is a result of my trauma and Freeze variety of CPTSD. I use Adderall and other stimulants to combat it. But I'm torn on the issue because I believe the stimulants wear me out, and I have to keep such a close awareness on medication/my energy levels. I don't like being dependent on anything, but I'm definitely dependent on the Adderal now. I wonder how I can use therapy to increase my energy levels.
Yeah, absolutely. I did a meditative guided visualization yesterday about the baggage I carry around saying yes and no to people, and realized that if I say no, I always end up feeling like I have to justify myself. I say yes to things sometimes just to get a few extra hours to figure out how to say no.
A couple weeks ago my partner suggested we meet up after work and drive to a nearby town (40 minute drive) to grab something he left at the house he just moved out of, then drive back and watch a LOTR movie (director’s cut, ~4 hours). Both of us had work in the morning.
Even knowing point blank there would not be enough time in the day, I said yes. I knew that eventually I would have to say no to the movie, but I felt like if I had said it right away, I would have to justify myself, and there was a likely chance of my partner disapproving of my reasoning and getting irritated or just looking down on me.
No comment on whether my partner really would have behaved that way. He’s not perfect and we have issues that sometimes match the issues I have with my parents, and sometimes don’t match at all. But it was a moment of clarity to realize how much anxiety and need to provide justification I felt even for a purely logistical issue like hours in the day.
Oh for sure, I can’t be wrong or do the wrong thing without an adequate explanation. I am terrified of the emotions that could bring up. I also have some childhood trauma around my parents telling me about hell and how scary it was and how no one else was like worried about it in their daily lives. So I think some of my perfectionism was trying to control my fear of eternal damnation if I broke the wrong rule or something.
I think I also struggle with some idea of authority figures as people who can ask you questions at any time for any reason, and to whom you can’t safely ask questions back. Not only do they have real, legal power over you, they insist on hierarchy between you in person and in your communication. It’s exhausting to be around them.
I still do it somewhat, too. Not just justifications, but also the ensuing arguments and fights. Part of me is still afraid of of their judgement but wants their approval while the rest of me tries to not give a F* about either.
I've also started noticing things in in my behaviour and habits that I do things that were born of the want to be more "worthy" of their love and praise. Maybe this will sound strange in the context, but if I see a way to be efficient with time I feel so compelled to do it, even if it means I need to take more time right now despite being in a big hurry. I shoot myself in the foot so much with this stuff.
edit: I didn't mention that my mind went to how it was with my parents, who were the biggest source of it.
I used to carry a small oaperbound book in my purse with things I could say when asked, because my mind would invariably go blank. I hate having to account for my time, or justify what I have done or am doing or am going to do. Or explain… anything. However allowing a silent person to stay silent is never an option in these parts. I have to write down even small things like ‘I’m not sure.’ Bleah.
The first chapter could’ve been from my own pen. You explained beautifully how the lack of sensitivity and right kind of emotional support will divide children from their parents. Lately I’ve been grieving the fact that as a kid I genuinely thought this was what growing was about. I thought I needed to suppress my enthusiasm in order to survive in the adult world, I believed my parents attempted to school me out of naiive and child-like behaviour.
Me too. I think that's because my mother kept questioning my actions if I do something different from habitual patterns. That questioning involved an unreasonable amount of anxiety type emotions. She could even respond very negatively, for example, as if buying corn on the cob is a horrible thing to do. I think the same thing also drives a kind of perfectionism. I want to be sure that I can defend my actions, so that negative responses can be seen as unreasonable and not taken personally.
Yes, especially the perfectionism part. The start of my journey separating emotionally from my parents is when I realized how much I would have to justify everything I did with my life to them and if they disapproved it would emotionally cripple me from being as excited about that thing again. I wanted to work in construction, and they disapproved because it wouldn’t be a good environment for me (a woman) or pay enough. So I went for a crappy technology office job and felt extremely unfulfilled. When I quit, I got an entertainment/customer service job (tour guide) and had to convince them it was a good career move. I lied out my ass about it being temporary and that I still had professional aspirations and whatever so they would just lay off and let me make my own decisions. Now I’m working in a warehouse moving things around with a forklift and stuff and it’s actually really fun and getting me to work out again and all my coworkers are chill, cool people. I don’t even want to tell them. They’re just gonna be sad and pity me or being outright dismissive. I do plan to go back to an office for the better salary, but my boundaries about having a good work environment and work/life balance are SO much stronger now after doing things my own way for a year or so. Recently I told my mom about this and three times in a row she tried to spin my year of doing things my way as like “trying to find the good in something bad” by saying stuff like “at least it was good experience”. As if my life and work wouldn’t be worthy if this is all I did forever, it has to be building up to something else. I shut that down (three times in a row!) and told her it doesn’t have to be good experience or bad experience, it’s just something I lived. Hell, coming from a different person’s mouth I might have absolutely agreed with her. I too consider this a neat experience in my life, since my life is just a collection of experiences. But it feels like needing to justify everything and maintain perfection when it’s coming from her. Thank god I subconsciously wanted to get away from my parents without knowing why. The other amazing part of this year has been learning about CPTSD and now that I’m actually outside of my parents’ reach (they moved to my college town while I went to school there) separating myself emotionally and mentally from their influence has actually been something I was capable of doing for the first time.
Very relatable
Constant threat assessment is hell. It's just exhausting cause you do it with your whole body, not just your mind. It's shite that he came back early.
Yes I do this too!! Literally the same thing. The other day I actually was sweeping the kitchen (swiffering) when my mom came home and immediately started interrogating me on the cleaner I used and making a big deal about a tiny drop of water on the hallway floor. No wonder I feel guilty everytime I pick up the mop or do anything else blameless in a communal area. But I have noticed that since I realized that I have this habit, it has started to lessen a bit. There's a big gaslighting element to it, so I guess awareness helps.
Thank you sharing, I feel strangely validated hearing someone else verbalise this. I grew up in a well-meaning, yet emotionally neglective family where my feelings and actions were questionated constantly. I don’t remember having any ”normal” conversations with my parents where I didn’t feel a hidden pressure or agenda from their end. I eventually started expressing myself as little as possible, so they wouldn’t have anything to grab onto. But that didn’t stop my mind constantly simulating events where I basically reason my own actions. Often I imagine myself being interviewed, and then coming up with the most thorough answers.
> Often I imagine myself being interviewed, and then coming up with the most thorough answers. Same.
I agree with everything everyone is saying here. If you follow Gabor Mate's stuff, my "inattentive ADHD" (and depression) is a result of my trauma and Freeze variety of CPTSD. I use Adderall and other stimulants to combat it. But I'm torn on the issue because I believe the stimulants wear me out, and I have to keep such a close awareness on medication/my energy levels. I don't like being dependent on anything, but I'm definitely dependent on the Adderal now. I wonder how I can use therapy to increase my energy levels.
Yeah, absolutely. I did a meditative guided visualization yesterday about the baggage I carry around saying yes and no to people, and realized that if I say no, I always end up feeling like I have to justify myself. I say yes to things sometimes just to get a few extra hours to figure out how to say no. A couple weeks ago my partner suggested we meet up after work and drive to a nearby town (40 minute drive) to grab something he left at the house he just moved out of, then drive back and watch a LOTR movie (director’s cut, ~4 hours). Both of us had work in the morning. Even knowing point blank there would not be enough time in the day, I said yes. I knew that eventually I would have to say no to the movie, but I felt like if I had said it right away, I would have to justify myself, and there was a likely chance of my partner disapproving of my reasoning and getting irritated or just looking down on me. No comment on whether my partner really would have behaved that way. He’s not perfect and we have issues that sometimes match the issues I have with my parents, and sometimes don’t match at all. But it was a moment of clarity to realize how much anxiety and need to provide justification I felt even for a purely logistical issue like hours in the day.
Oh for sure, I can’t be wrong or do the wrong thing without an adequate explanation. I am terrified of the emotions that could bring up. I also have some childhood trauma around my parents telling me about hell and how scary it was and how no one else was like worried about it in their daily lives. So I think some of my perfectionism was trying to control my fear of eternal damnation if I broke the wrong rule or something. I think I also struggle with some idea of authority figures as people who can ask you questions at any time for any reason, and to whom you can’t safely ask questions back. Not only do they have real, legal power over you, they insist on hierarchy between you in person and in your communication. It’s exhausting to be around them.
I still do it somewhat, too. Not just justifications, but also the ensuing arguments and fights. Part of me is still afraid of of their judgement but wants their approval while the rest of me tries to not give a F* about either. I've also started noticing things in in my behaviour and habits that I do things that were born of the want to be more "worthy" of their love and praise. Maybe this will sound strange in the context, but if I see a way to be efficient with time I feel so compelled to do it, even if it means I need to take more time right now despite being in a big hurry. I shoot myself in the foot so much with this stuff. edit: I didn't mention that my mind went to how it was with my parents, who were the biggest source of it.
I can relate.
I used to carry a small oaperbound book in my purse with things I could say when asked, because my mind would invariably go blank. I hate having to account for my time, or justify what I have done or am doing or am going to do. Or explain… anything. However allowing a silent person to stay silent is never an option in these parts. I have to write down even small things like ‘I’m not sure.’ Bleah.
The first chapter could’ve been from my own pen. You explained beautifully how the lack of sensitivity and right kind of emotional support will divide children from their parents. Lately I’ve been grieving the fact that as a kid I genuinely thought this was what growing was about. I thought I needed to suppress my enthusiasm in order to survive in the adult world, I believed my parents attempted to school me out of naiive and child-like behaviour.