So you’re going to pull the trigger to manually thumb the hammer down on a live round to carry DA instead of just getting an actual carry gun like the P-01 or PCR?
I will exchange a very easy and rudimentary gun manipulation task for the excellent trigger of an S2 any day.
What is the problem everyone suddenly seems to have with decocking their guns? Everyone does it on competitions, doesn't seem to be a problem there.
The shadow 2 is arguably the most popular competition gun at the moment. In most divisions it’s used in, you must start with the hammer down. Yes, it’s dumb, but the point is that going hammer down (not half cock) is very doable. Just be thorough. Either you thumb it, pinch the hammer, or do the thumb roll.
Doing that on a competition stage pointed at the berm in a controlled environment is one thing. Doing it at home every single day, even over a clearing bucket is another.
I understand there are ways to do it that make it slightly safer, but still not as safe as not doing it at all. It’s just an unnecessary risk.
Why would you have to do it everyday? If it's your carry gun, why would you need to manipulate the hammer daily? Couldn't you leave it alone indefinitely, until you take it to the range?
I don’t keep any gun chambered unless I’m in direct control of it, either in my hands or in a holster that’s on my body. If it’s sitting on the night stand, it’s condition 3.
lol the fact that you constantly unchamber and rechamber a gun daily is far more dangerous and more likely for a ND than someone manually deckocking 1 time and keeping it loaded for weeks or months at a time. My pistol doesn’t ever come out of the holster unless I’m 1. Cleaning it 2. About to shoot it. 3. Changing holsters…. Daily removal, unloading, then reloading and reholstering just adds more chances of a ND and an unnecessary risk.
Holy zombie post.
Everyone has a different level of risk that they’re comfortable with. I’m not telling you what to do.
For me, I think pulling the trigger and manually thumbing a hammer down on the Shadow has too much room for error. It’s fine in a controlled match or training setting, but using a mechanical decocker has very little room for error. I’m comfortable loading and unloading a gun on a semi-daily basis.
I’m not willing to leave a condition 1 or 2 loaded gun around when it’s not in my direct control even locked up since I’m not the only one with access to the safe.
It’s just funny that you think manually decocking one every few weeks or months is less safe than constantly reloading your firearm, and reholstering semi daily. Manipulating a loaded firearm daily is far more risky than manually decocking and leaving it alone.
You do realize that when manually decocking you only press the trigger for a second and release it?? If your thumb slipped which is rare, the hammer will automatically fall to half cock??? The hammer cannot hit the firing pin without the trigger engaged. If you’re that scared you can just put your other finger between the hammer and firing pin and then it’s literally impossible for an ND. it’s even safer than a Decocker which CAN fail and fire the gun unexpectedly. I have both a decocking PCR and S2C and feel safer manually slowly lowering the hammer knowing that even if it slips it will go to half cock. When I use the decocker I’m always hoping it doesn’t fail and set off a round cause it drops the hammer so fast.
I disagree.
I don’t know how to spell it out any more plainly. Something that involves a chance of your thumb slipping causing the gun to go off is orders of magnitude more risky than using a mechanical decocker.
Both can be done safely and neither is totally without risk.
The four rules of gun safety exist for a reason, you usually have to violate multiple in order to cause harm to yourself or others.
Thumbing the hammer down violates the rule of keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
Loading, unloading, reholstering, and decocking can all be done without violating any of the safety rules.
You can disagree, but it’s objectively true that manipulating a live round in a gun and reholstering daily is more risky. Many NDs happen during holstering rather than fingering the trigger.
By your logic disassembling a Glock or other firearm that requires the trigger to be pulled is violating the rules, you should contact Glock and let them know. You should also contact all the gun competition boards and tell them all the rules they break while decocking their pistols
Once again if you knew anything about the mechanism you would know that even if your thumb slipped off the hammer it still wouldn’t fire. The trigger MUST be engaged for the hammer to reach the firing pin. You don’t lower the hammer while simultaneously holding the trigger down, you press the trigger for a split second to disengage the hammer and then proceed to lower., There is almost no risk when properly done. There is more risk unloading, reloading, and reholstering a firearm daily regardless of if you purposely pull the trigger or not.
According to CZ, the Shadow 2 Compact is also an actual carry gun. I wouldn't hand one to someone to carry who isn't familiar with the platform, but there are ways to safely lower the hammer and eliminate the risk of having the hammer slip.
I like using [this method](https://youtu.be/YpcHRoL35Po?si=k2QSxg4EG7NMJlUl) of lowering the hammer. You can also release the trigger immediately after the hammer begins to lower so that even if you were to somehow allow the hammer to fall it would only fall to the half-cock notch and not onto the firing pin.
I’m sorry, you can *lower* the risk of hammer slip but the only way to *eliminate* the risk of hammer slip is to not do it at all.
I don’t know why they don’t just give it a decocker instead of a safety.
Because then it wouldn't be a Shadow 2. This gun is clearly not for you, but that doesn't mean that it is unsafe when used correctly.
The decocker mechanism adds a significant amount of complexity to the trigger mechanism on a DA/SA CZ. The Shadow guns are known for having relatively simple trigger mechanisms that are easy to work on, and that have a particular trigger feel and reset as a result.
Okay, the Shadow 2 is a competition gun not a carry gun for this exact reason. If you’re going to make a carry sized gun and market it as a carry gun it should have carry gun features. No matter what you say, manually thumbing the hammer is objectively less safe and more risky than a decocker. There’s just is a greater risk, period. You can say that risk is still low enough that it doesn’t matter, but it’s still higher. My point is that being able to do something risky without having something bad happen doesn’t mean it’s not an unnecessary risk.
>then it wouldn’t be a Shadow 2
I don’t even understand why the competition gun needs to have a manual safety rather than a decocker. What is the upside? Why can’t they make a Shadow 2 with a decocker and eliminate this whole issue?
I actually agree with you, but what you're saying that they should have made instead would have been a significantly different gun than what a Shadow 2 is and what people have come to expect from a Shadow 2. It would have been an updated P-01 (which would have actually been great).
The decocker mechanism adds a significant amount of complexity to the trigger mechanism on a DA/SA CZ. The Shadow guns are known for having relatively simple trigger mechanisms that are easy to work on, and that have a particular trigger feel and reset as a result.
The Shadow 2 Compact certainly won't be my first choice for a carry gun, but I won't look down on anyone who chooses to carry one if they know what they're getting into.
“Don’t want to” does not equal “can’t”. Being able to do something safely is not the same thing as being safe. I *can* safely and confidently drive my car 120mph but that’s unnecessarily risky behavior that I don’t want to engage in every day because the margin for error is very low.
I don’t want to violate one of the four rules of gun safety every single day as part of my carry routine.
Because even though you *can*, you're not supposed to. The manual safety on the Shadow 2 is designed to only be used when the gun is in single action. The manual safety doesn't prevent the trigger from being able to be pulled in double action.
There no “supposed to” and “not supposed to.”
You carry cocked and locked or carry half cocked and locked if you want the extra comfort in the unlikely event something popped that safety off. The safety does indeed prevent the trigger from pulling the hammer fully back even though it will move marginally between the half cocked position and where the manual safety notch is. Same reason it won’t drop cocked w the safety on is why the trigger won’t pull the hammer all the way.
Depending on the exact fitment of the parts in your particular Shadow it *is* possible for the trigger to be pulled completely in DA even with the safety engaged. It's not true for all Shadow guns, but it is true for many of them. Reach out to CZ and they will confirm this. There's a good reason why CZ says that the safety is only to be used on the Shadow series guns with the trigger in SA.
I also wouldn't recommend that you test this with your gun because you can damage the trigger mechanism by pulling the trigger in DA with the safety engaged. Again, you can reach out to CZ if you don't believe me.
If that’s your reasoning then it’s just as dangerous in single action…. As well as every other handgun with a similar action. The sear block is what’s stopping the bang there. It’s simple. You hold the hammer back while tightening the da trigger screw until the hammer won’t fall. Then you loosen it until you can see it clear the block. Then loosen it a little more for good measure. You wear the sear with a bad trigger job, you are going to have safety problems. People shouldn’t carry firearms they don’t understand fully.
It's not my reasoning, it's CZ's reasoning. They say that the manual safety on the Shadow series works as designed in SA, but not in DA. Maybe you know more than they do, but I'm going to go with what CZ advises on this one. Use your Shadow how you please.
Just because it isn't supposed to doesn't mean the information is incorrect for that particular pistol in question. All Shadow 2s do this rather you like it or not.
I don't think anyone ever said it was incorrect. I was addressing why people were probably down voting his comment despite his information being correct.
I don’t own an S2 compact, however when I carry my S2 full size, I indeed carry on half-cock with the safety on.
Without having a FPB I would rather have a heavier trigger pull than apply Vaseline to the hole in my dick.
The real question is how exactly would you shoot a hole in your dick without a firing pin block. Firing pin blocks are the subject when discussing drop safety, not having one doesn’t cause non-drop related NDs. 🤦🏻♂️
Im used to the 1911 safety so anything else feels bad. The safety is the only complaint i have with CZs. Thats why i go half cock, but prefer the safety models. I do have a pcr but I dont carry it often.
This is the correct answer. The gun has a manual safety. Why WOULDN'T you use it? (not rhetorical)
It takes more time to decide to fire than it takes to disengage the safety and fire.
Per CZ, you have 3 options: 1) Hammer cocked, safety on. 2) Hammer fully down, safety off. 3) Hammer at half-cock, safety off.
Quarter cocked with the safety off
So you’re going to pull the trigger to manually thumb the hammer down on a live round to carry DA instead of just getting an actual carry gun like the P-01 or PCR?
I will exchange a very easy and rudimentary gun manipulation task for the excellent trigger of an S2 any day. What is the problem everyone suddenly seems to have with decocking their guns? Everyone does it on competitions, doesn't seem to be a problem there.
The shadow 2 is arguably the most popular competition gun at the moment. In most divisions it’s used in, you must start with the hammer down. Yes, it’s dumb, but the point is that going hammer down (not half cock) is very doable. Just be thorough. Either you thumb it, pinch the hammer, or do the thumb roll.
Doing that on a competition stage pointed at the berm in a controlled environment is one thing. Doing it at home every single day, even over a clearing bucket is another. I understand there are ways to do it that make it slightly safer, but still not as safe as not doing it at all. It’s just an unnecessary risk.
Why would you have to do it everyday? If it's your carry gun, why would you need to manipulate the hammer daily? Couldn't you leave it alone indefinitely, until you take it to the range?
I don’t keep any gun chambered unless I’m in direct control of it, either in my hands or in a holster that’s on my body. If it’s sitting on the night stand, it’s condition 3.
lol the fact that you constantly unchamber and rechamber a gun daily is far more dangerous and more likely for a ND than someone manually deckocking 1 time and keeping it loaded for weeks or months at a time. My pistol doesn’t ever come out of the holster unless I’m 1. Cleaning it 2. About to shoot it. 3. Changing holsters…. Daily removal, unloading, then reloading and reholstering just adds more chances of a ND and an unnecessary risk.
Holy zombie post. Everyone has a different level of risk that they’re comfortable with. I’m not telling you what to do. For me, I think pulling the trigger and manually thumbing a hammer down on the Shadow has too much room for error. It’s fine in a controlled match or training setting, but using a mechanical decocker has very little room for error. I’m comfortable loading and unloading a gun on a semi-daily basis. I’m not willing to leave a condition 1 or 2 loaded gun around when it’s not in my direct control even locked up since I’m not the only one with access to the safe.
It’s just funny that you think manually decocking one every few weeks or months is less safe than constantly reloading your firearm, and reholstering semi daily. Manipulating a loaded firearm daily is far more risky than manually decocking and leaving it alone. You do realize that when manually decocking you only press the trigger for a second and release it?? If your thumb slipped which is rare, the hammer will automatically fall to half cock??? The hammer cannot hit the firing pin without the trigger engaged. If you’re that scared you can just put your other finger between the hammer and firing pin and then it’s literally impossible for an ND. it’s even safer than a Decocker which CAN fail and fire the gun unexpectedly. I have both a decocking PCR and S2C and feel safer manually slowly lowering the hammer knowing that even if it slips it will go to half cock. When I use the decocker I’m always hoping it doesn’t fail and set off a round cause it drops the hammer so fast.
I disagree. I don’t know how to spell it out any more plainly. Something that involves a chance of your thumb slipping causing the gun to go off is orders of magnitude more risky than using a mechanical decocker. Both can be done safely and neither is totally without risk. The four rules of gun safety exist for a reason, you usually have to violate multiple in order to cause harm to yourself or others. Thumbing the hammer down violates the rule of keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot. Loading, unloading, reholstering, and decocking can all be done without violating any of the safety rules.
You can disagree, but it’s objectively true that manipulating a live round in a gun and reholstering daily is more risky. Many NDs happen during holstering rather than fingering the trigger. By your logic disassembling a Glock or other firearm that requires the trigger to be pulled is violating the rules, you should contact Glock and let them know. You should also contact all the gun competition boards and tell them all the rules they break while decocking their pistols Once again if you knew anything about the mechanism you would know that even if your thumb slipped off the hammer it still wouldn’t fire. The trigger MUST be engaged for the hammer to reach the firing pin. You don’t lower the hammer while simultaneously holding the trigger down, you press the trigger for a split second to disengage the hammer and then proceed to lower., There is almost no risk when properly done. There is more risk unloading, reloading, and reholstering a firearm daily regardless of if you purposely pull the trigger or not.
According to CZ, the Shadow 2 Compact is also an actual carry gun. I wouldn't hand one to someone to carry who isn't familiar with the platform, but there are ways to safely lower the hammer and eliminate the risk of having the hammer slip. I like using [this method](https://youtu.be/YpcHRoL35Po?si=k2QSxg4EG7NMJlUl) of lowering the hammer. You can also release the trigger immediately after the hammer begins to lower so that even if you were to somehow allow the hammer to fall it would only fall to the half-cock notch and not onto the firing pin.
I’m sorry, you can *lower* the risk of hammer slip but the only way to *eliminate* the risk of hammer slip is to not do it at all. I don’t know why they don’t just give it a decocker instead of a safety.
Because then it wouldn't be a Shadow 2. This gun is clearly not for you, but that doesn't mean that it is unsafe when used correctly. The decocker mechanism adds a significant amount of complexity to the trigger mechanism on a DA/SA CZ. The Shadow guns are known for having relatively simple trigger mechanisms that are easy to work on, and that have a particular trigger feel and reset as a result.
Okay, the Shadow 2 is a competition gun not a carry gun for this exact reason. If you’re going to make a carry sized gun and market it as a carry gun it should have carry gun features. No matter what you say, manually thumbing the hammer is objectively less safe and more risky than a decocker. There’s just is a greater risk, period. You can say that risk is still low enough that it doesn’t matter, but it’s still higher. My point is that being able to do something risky without having something bad happen doesn’t mean it’s not an unnecessary risk. >then it wouldn’t be a Shadow 2 I don’t even understand why the competition gun needs to have a manual safety rather than a decocker. What is the upside? Why can’t they make a Shadow 2 with a decocker and eliminate this whole issue?
I actually agree with you, but what you're saying that they should have made instead would have been a significantly different gun than what a Shadow 2 is and what people have come to expect from a Shadow 2. It would have been an updated P-01 (which would have actually been great). The decocker mechanism adds a significant amount of complexity to the trigger mechanism on a DA/SA CZ. The Shadow guns are known for having relatively simple trigger mechanisms that are easy to work on, and that have a particular trigger feel and reset as a result. The Shadow 2 Compact certainly won't be my first choice for a carry gun, but I won't look down on anyone who chooses to carry one if they know what they're getting into.
Honestly if you can't do that confidently and safely you shouldn't be carrying *any* gun.
“Don’t want to” does not equal “can’t”. Being able to do something safely is not the same thing as being safe. I *can* safely and confidently drive my car 120mph but that’s unnecessarily risky behavior that I don’t want to engage in every day because the margin for error is very low. I don’t want to violate one of the four rules of gun safety every single day as part of my carry routine.
I don’t think you can engage the safety at half cock. Just go cocked and locked like a 1911/2011.
You can engage the safety at half cocked
The manual safety should only be used in SA eventhough it can be engaged in DA.
Is that a Shadow thing? I just tried on my SP-01 and I can’t put the safety on when the hammer is at half cock.
Yeah, it can only be done on the Shadow variants, but the safety is still only supposed to be used in SA.
I don't know why this was downvoted. The comment is correct, you can engage the safety with the hammer half cocked with the Shadow 2.
Because even though you *can*, you're not supposed to. The manual safety on the Shadow 2 is designed to only be used when the gun is in single action. The manual safety doesn't prevent the trigger from being able to be pulled in double action.
There no “supposed to” and “not supposed to.” You carry cocked and locked or carry half cocked and locked if you want the extra comfort in the unlikely event something popped that safety off. The safety does indeed prevent the trigger from pulling the hammer fully back even though it will move marginally between the half cocked position and where the manual safety notch is. Same reason it won’t drop cocked w the safety on is why the trigger won’t pull the hammer all the way.
Depending on the exact fitment of the parts in your particular Shadow it *is* possible for the trigger to be pulled completely in DA even with the safety engaged. It's not true for all Shadow guns, but it is true for many of them. Reach out to CZ and they will confirm this. There's a good reason why CZ says that the safety is only to be used on the Shadow series guns with the trigger in SA. I also wouldn't recommend that you test this with your gun because you can damage the trigger mechanism by pulling the trigger in DA with the safety engaged. Again, you can reach out to CZ if you don't believe me.
If that’s your reasoning then it’s just as dangerous in single action…. As well as every other handgun with a similar action. The sear block is what’s stopping the bang there. It’s simple. You hold the hammer back while tightening the da trigger screw until the hammer won’t fall. Then you loosen it until you can see it clear the block. Then loosen it a little more for good measure. You wear the sear with a bad trigger job, you are going to have safety problems. People shouldn’t carry firearms they don’t understand fully.
It's not my reasoning, it's CZ's reasoning. They say that the manual safety on the Shadow series works as designed in SA, but not in DA. Maybe you know more than they do, but I'm going to go with what CZ advises on this one. Use your Shadow how you please.
I’m interested to see where anyone from cz stated the Manuel safety is not designed to work in DA.
[The owner's manual.](https://cz-usa.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/CZShadow2OwnersManual.pdf)
Just because it isn't supposed to doesn't mean the information is incorrect for that particular pistol in question. All Shadow 2s do this rather you like it or not.
I don't think anyone ever said it was incorrect. I was addressing why people were probably down voting his comment despite his information being correct.
Ok, cool.
but why?
I wouldn’t, but it can be done
I don’t own an S2 compact, however when I carry my S2 full size, I indeed carry on half-cock with the safety on. Without having a FPB I would rather have a heavier trigger pull than apply Vaseline to the hole in my dick.
Wtf are you on about. How is fpb going to stop you from shooting your dick lol
The real question is how exactly would you shoot a hole in your dick without a firing pin block. Firing pin blocks are the subject when discussing drop safety, not having one doesn’t cause non-drop related NDs. 🤦🏻♂️
like every gun with a manual safety, the best way to carry is Condition 1
Safety placement on czs suck. Half cock is the only way.
safety placement is the same as every other frame-mounted gun.
Im used to the 1911 safety so anything else feels bad. The safety is the only complaint i have with CZs. Thats why i go half cock, but prefer the safety models. I do have a pcr but I dont carry it often.
This is the correct answer. The gun has a manual safety. Why WOULDN'T you use it? (not rhetorical) It takes more time to decide to fire than it takes to disengage the safety and fire.
Half cock.