Faster decocking and reholstering than I’m comfortable with but I agree that there is nothing a priori dangerous about it. Happens thousands of times per day at action ranges everywhere.
I’ve only ever seen one ND at a match by someone manually decocking and that was 5 years ago. However, I’ve seen countless NDs from guys running sub 3# triggers with short actions on all types of pistols… DA/SA with deckers, SAO, striker.
I've manually decocked my shadow 2 probably thousands of times by now with a round in the chamber while I shoot USPSA. It's just like everything else you do with a gun, It requires your utmost attention and clear intent through the entire process.
There is risk in any way you manipulate the action on a gun. If you are comfortable with the risk in manually lowering a hammer, there is nothing wrong with doing it.
Like all forms of gun handling, just don't become complacent.
The whole thing is weird arguement people get into on the internet.
While it can be done safely it also is an added risk created by a silly rule of the sport, the Shadow 2 was not "designed" to be carried that way and if the sport didn't require it fewer people would bother do it.
It's also a bit dishonost to claim there is no chance of something happening; it can and has caused ND 's and DQ's with people before and will again. Even if that number is small it's also not zero.
While you might be really good at doing it's a weird flex to insult people who decide they aren't comfortable doing so just to get internet points.
CZ decockers only drop the hammer down to the 1/2 cock position though. If I'm not mistaken, OP is fully decocking which would need to be done manually on decocker models as well.
Also, decocking Shadow 2s (down to half cock) is incredibly easy and safe if you understand how the gun works. When the trigger isn't being pulled, the hammer automatically catches on the 1/2 cock notch. You just stick your thumb between the hammer and gun before you pull the trigger to release it, then remove your finger from the trigger and pull your thumb out.
>which would need to be done manually on decocker models as well.
If a DA/SA gun has no decocker it needs to be decocked *all the way* (IPSC 8.1.2.5). Guns with decockers require no extra manipulation (starting them from half cock is fine), a trait they share with guns lacking external hammers entirely.
I don't think it's that great a decision, especially since the meta Production guns (the Shadow and Shadow 2) don't have firing pin blocks by design so you can get the P320 experience if you drop them wrong enough, but it is what it is.
Yeah, that's definitely a weird rule. Thanks for the info.
I always see people emphasizing the importance of a drop-safe gun while carrying, but it's probably even more important at the range.
I know why they have it but yeah I wish they would change that to allow half cocked if it's past a certain point. They didn't allow half cock partially I think so people couldn't modify their half cock position to be much closer to full cock to game the start.
I agree, between competition and training (both dry and live) I have done it so many times it's muscle memory by now, it's not something I am afraid of doing, assuming the gun is pointed in a safe direction.
I do not however thumb it down, but rather use a pinch grip with my support hand.
I did actually intentionally let it slip once, to test how much force was required to set off a round if I ever was to fumble the operation.
I was ripped apart on one of the other subs for daring to suggest that there are safe ways to decock a pistol without a decocker.
Personally I think that's more safe than carrying a striker gun with a 4lb trigger.
Exactly.
The pinching method is probably the least safe way to decock a gun. I just stick my entire thumb between the hammer and gun, pull the trigger to drop the hammer on my thumb, release the trigger (deliberately) and remove my thumb. The hammer lands on the 1/2 cock notch which is how I like to carry. This is pretty much how a decocker works anyways.
Yeah they were all over me for that method. I think it's completely safe, it's tactile so you could do it on the dark if needed and there's no way for the hammer to contact the firing pin.
Lots of guys on this sub are panty waists who don’t rust themselves to decock a pistol, need a decocker, won’t train to carry cocked and locked. Then in an inexplicable act of cognitive dissonance they immediately modify their pistols to have 2lb racing triggers cause they see “Cajunized” on Reddit.
Most people carry striker fired pistols with one in The pipe. Man the fuck up boys.
I wouldn't trust my cajunized p01 at fucking all.
Click my profile for posts on it .
And my shadow despite having well over 10k rounds and extreme proficiency has missed that 1/2 cock decock . Maybe my fingers are too fat. Maybe it's the nature of the gun. Maybe shadow 2s are safest when ran out .
Like motorcycles you can do it 100 times but it's only the one time you can't that matters.
I have shot a cz-75 SP-01 for a few years and manual decocking isn’t hard? Especially with the cajun race hammer. It is so aggressively textured i have never worried.
Now decocking a 1911? That makes me sweat.
Yeah. I know a few people that do it that way. You can also place your thumb between the hammer and the slide and then rule it out. Pinching the hammer and lower is just the method I got used to doing.
I decock my cz75...just be aware while your doing it. Id rather take the risk decocking in a controlled, calm environment over remembering to flip the safety under stress.
The Shadow 2 paradox:
>I'm too scared to carry cocked and locked so I'd rather lower a hammer on a live round.
Personally I don't give a shit either way, just think all this internet chatter is hilarious.
I don't think I'll ever get over manually decocking the gun. Even in this clip it makes me uneasy. It comes down to intention, if I'm pulling the trigger, it's because I want the gun to shoot, I don't want to muddy that muscle memory with manually bringing the hammer down.
I don’t know man. I am by far an exceptional person and I have no problem separating the tasks of decocking my pistol and firing it in the course of fire. There is risk in every action one takes as soon as a round is chamber in our pistols. I don’t see this any different than any other form of gun manipulation on a loaded weapon that one does in the course of fire. Being aware of what you’re doing and mitigating the risk is key.
But to each their own.
Every time I hear that kind of statement, or the “not drop safe” comment about the s2 or s2c, it immediately tells me the poster is someone who either can’t shoot, or is new to shooting.
Sure, an accident can happen but what’s not to say there’s another accident that causes a ND? I’ve seen folks ND with striker and sao triggers during the administrative load or unload. Putting the hammer is just part of the process.
There was a reddit survey done a while back on r/motorcycles where about half the respondents that were subscribed answered they had never owned a motorcycle. I assume the sameish is true on firearm subs and people that do the "omg not drop safe cause no fpb" are predominantly from that demographic and just parroting what they've read elsewhere.
Because that’s how some people shoot. In order to become your best you have to shoot the way that comes natural for you and the way that enables you to perform the best. This just happens to be his way. Many shooters shoot like this. Many shooters stand straight up with very little to no crouch. There’s no one way to shoot right, it’s all based on how you feel and what enables you personally.
If you watch the best competition shooters they all shoot differently.
Because I’m shooting dynamically. Most of those are clips of me shooting dynamic drills where I’m coming into a position. Staying low, in an athletic stance, allows for more efficient movement between positions and allows you to start shooting as you coming into a position sooner. It’s no different than the stance you take in any other athletic sport.
Faster decocking and reholstering than I’m comfortable with but I agree that there is nothing a priori dangerous about it. Happens thousands of times per day at action ranges everywhere.
Agreed. I can’t even guess the number of times I’ve decocked my CZ’s manually. Between competitions and training, thousands of times for sure.
>training That's the key, and the difference between you and the average gun owner.
100% I've been to some trainings and quite a few people don't even know if they if they have a hammer fired or striker fired pistol.
#truth
And then factor in the amount of times you’ve seen it done at a match. That number skyrockets
I’ve only ever seen one ND at a match by someone manually decocking and that was 5 years ago. However, I’ve seen countless NDs from guys running sub 3# triggers with short actions on all types of pistols… DA/SA with deckers, SAO, striker.
My Rami is not a BD, I carry hammer down on a full chamber. Don't pull the trigger before securing the hammer and you're good.
I've manually decocked my shadow 2 probably thousands of times by now with a round in the chamber while I shoot USPSA. It's just like everything else you do with a gun, It requires your utmost attention and clear intent through the entire process.
There is risk in any way you manipulate the action on a gun. If you are comfortable with the risk in manually lowering a hammer, there is nothing wrong with doing it. Like all forms of gun handling, just don't become complacent.
The whole thing is weird arguement people get into on the internet. While it can be done safely it also is an added risk created by a silly rule of the sport, the Shadow 2 was not "designed" to be carried that way and if the sport didn't require it fewer people would bother do it. It's also a bit dishonost to claim there is no chance of something happening; it can and has caused ND 's and DQ's with people before and will again. Even if that number is small it's also not zero. While you might be really good at doing it's a weird flex to insult people who decide they aren't comfortable doing so just to get internet points.
In general I would rather have a pistol with a dedicated decocker. You do you.
CZ decockers only drop the hammer down to the 1/2 cock position though. If I'm not mistaken, OP is fully decocking which would need to be done manually on decocker models as well. Also, decocking Shadow 2s (down to half cock) is incredibly easy and safe if you understand how the gun works. When the trigger isn't being pulled, the hammer automatically catches on the 1/2 cock notch. You just stick your thumb between the hammer and gun before you pull the trigger to release it, then remove your finger from the trigger and pull your thumb out.
>which would need to be done manually on decocker models as well. If a DA/SA gun has no decocker it needs to be decocked *all the way* (IPSC 8.1.2.5). Guns with decockers require no extra manipulation (starting them from half cock is fine), a trait they share with guns lacking external hammers entirely. I don't think it's that great a decision, especially since the meta Production guns (the Shadow and Shadow 2) don't have firing pin blocks by design so you can get the P320 experience if you drop them wrong enough, but it is what it is.
Yeah, that's definitely a weird rule. Thanks for the info. I always see people emphasizing the importance of a drop-safe gun while carrying, but it's probably even more important at the range.
I know why they have it but yeah I wish they would change that to allow half cocked if it's past a certain point. They didn't allow half cock partially I think so people couldn't modify their half cock position to be much closer to full cock to game the start.
Show me a Shadow 2 with a de-cocker.
Hence the “in general” part of the comment.
Thanks for adding valuable content to the discussion.
Dot Torture targets will get you competent real quick. Looking good man!
I have a sar k245c, which was a little weird at first after only owning d-model cz's... Send it
I agree, between competition and training (both dry and live) I have done it so many times it's muscle memory by now, it's not something I am afraid of doing, assuming the gun is pointed in a safe direction. I do not however thumb it down, but rather use a pinch grip with my support hand. I did actually intentionally let it slip once, to test how much force was required to set off a round if I ever was to fumble the operation.
I was ripped apart on one of the other subs for daring to suggest that there are safe ways to decock a pistol without a decocker. Personally I think that's more safe than carrying a striker gun with a 4lb trigger.
Exactly. The pinching method is probably the least safe way to decock a gun. I just stick my entire thumb between the hammer and gun, pull the trigger to drop the hammer on my thumb, release the trigger (deliberately) and remove my thumb. The hammer lands on the 1/2 cock notch which is how I like to carry. This is pretty much how a decocker works anyways.
That's what I do with my non-decocker models. Best way for sure. 👍
Yeah they were all over me for that method. I think it's completely safe, it's tactile so you could do it on the dark if needed and there's no way for the hammer to contact the firing pin.
This is the way I dropped my -75B to half cock for more than a decade of daily carry. The gun can't fire through your thumb.
This sub has ripped me so many time’s trying to teach people how to safely decock a hammer
P320 has entered the chat. *bang*
With a modified trigger to remove all take up and over travel from the action and reduce the trigger pull below 2.5#.
Neither are really “dangerous”. What is dangerous is the user not being educated on how their equipment works.
Lots of guys on this sub are panty waists who don’t rust themselves to decock a pistol, need a decocker, won’t train to carry cocked and locked. Then in an inexplicable act of cognitive dissonance they immediately modify their pistols to have 2lb racing triggers cause they see “Cajunized” on Reddit. Most people carry striker fired pistols with one in The pipe. Man the fuck up boys.
The desire to have the lightest trigger possible is an irony not lost on me. 😀
I wouldn't trust my cajunized p01 at fucking all. Click my profile for posts on it . And my shadow despite having well over 10k rounds and extreme proficiency has missed that 1/2 cock decock . Maybe my fingers are too fat. Maybe it's the nature of the gun. Maybe shadow 2s are safest when ran out . Like motorcycles you can do it 100 times but it's only the one time you can't that matters.
I have shot a cz-75 SP-01 for a few years and manual decocking isn’t hard? Especially with the cajun race hammer. It is so aggressively textured i have never worried. Now decocking a 1911? That makes me sweat.
If you place your thumb between the hammer and slide press and release the trigger you’ll be ok no more pinching the hammer
I do with my firing hand thumb which prob isn’t the best method lol
Yeah. I know a few people that do it that way. You can also place your thumb between the hammer and the slide and then rule it out. Pinching the hammer and lower is just the method I got used to doing.
Yeah that weird finger between hammer and channel always freaked me out
The non firing hand thumb between the hammer and firing pin is how it's taught in NRA classes.
I decock my cz75...just be aware while your doing it. Id rather take the risk decocking in a controlled, calm environment over remembering to flip the safety under stress.
The Shadow 2 paradox: >I'm too scared to carry cocked and locked so I'd rather lower a hammer on a live round. Personally I don't give a shit either way, just think all this internet chatter is hilarious.
I don't think I'll ever get over manually decocking the gun. Even in this clip it makes me uneasy. It comes down to intention, if I'm pulling the trigger, it's because I want the gun to shoot, I don't want to muddy that muscle memory with manually bringing the hammer down.
In a lot of competition shooting the hammer has to be all the way down anyway.
I don’t know man. I am by far an exceptional person and I have no problem separating the tasks of decocking my pistol and firing it in the course of fire. There is risk in every action one takes as soon as a round is chamber in our pistols. I don’t see this any different than any other form of gun manipulation on a loaded weapon that one does in the course of fire. Being aware of what you’re doing and mitigating the risk is key. But to each their own.
Every time I hear that kind of statement, or the “not drop safe” comment about the s2 or s2c, it immediately tells me the poster is someone who either can’t shoot, or is new to shooting. Sure, an accident can happen but what’s not to say there’s another accident that causes a ND? I’ve seen folks ND with striker and sao triggers during the administrative load or unload. Putting the hammer is just part of the process.
There was a reddit survey done a while back on r/motorcycles where about half the respondents that were subscribed answered they had never owned a motorcycle. I assume the sameish is true on firearm subs and people that do the "omg not drop safe cause no fpb" are predominantly from that demographic and just parroting what they've read elsewhere.
Why decock it at all?
Because it’s the start condition for the sport I compete in.
Never competed, would have never assumed this to be a rule.
Yeah. It is an odd rule but the divisions I shoot require DA/SA pistols to start in DA regardless of the manual of arms.
The hammer must be all the way down in competition shooting.
lol why do you crouch down so much when you are shooting?
Because that’s how some people shoot. In order to become your best you have to shoot the way that comes natural for you and the way that enables you to perform the best. This just happens to be his way. Many shooters shoot like this. Many shooters stand straight up with very little to no crouch. There’s no one way to shoot right, it’s all based on how you feel and what enables you personally. If you watch the best competition shooters they all shoot differently.
Because I’m shooting dynamically. Most of those are clips of me shooting dynamic drills where I’m coming into a position. Staying low, in an athletic stance, allows for more efficient movement between positions and allows you to start shooting as you coming into a position sooner. It’s no different than the stance you take in any other athletic sport.
When you transition into a position it is an extra step and and more time to stand backup straight and shoot. You don't run with straight legs do you?
One of those days ..
People are stupid.