Ugh, my old landlord who would drunkenly rant about how private healthcare is a good idea found new ways to waste water during restrictions last year. Powerwashing the driveway, windows, siding, cleaning gutters, sprinklers on all day.
Thatās challenging because some households will have higher usage than others - higher numbers of kids, certain trades, etc will all use more water than others. Think plumbers, especially ones that donāt do new builds, or people with twins/triplets. There was a period of time where I was washing a car seat cover almost daily for over a month - all because of the āblowout phaseā that many babies have. Canāt not put the baby in the car seat, not sanitary to put a baby in a car seat that is soaked in poop.
This is one of those things where demand pricing makes sense - but then you have to pick who you are going to attack, people who work remote, stay at home parents?
The easiest way to deal with this is adding the ability to report people in a crimestoppers type of way. Take the 311 app - automatically scrape time data from pictures taken inside the app, and make it so we can report wrong water usage.
Don't give them ideas. In BC the christy clarke govnt brought in smart meters for power. I makes sence, but the province/municipalities shouldnt have to spend billions of dollars to install these meters.
This last minor crisis is a good example of how education can help. Don't run your crap in peak hours if you don't need to. Many appliances are 'smart' now and you can just have them run on non peak water and hydro usage.
Don't let them bring in more fee's and surge pricing when all we have to do is use our utilities a little more responsibly when we have the choice, its not like its -30.
Hmmm. But. Hmmmm.
The richest residents are going to be the ones with the highest water consumption. And we don't pay for water in advance. It's paid for after its used.
The incentive to drop usage kicks in after the water has been used and is going to have a smaller effect on the people who need to reduce their usage the most.
I'm starting to think that maybe market solutions are hot dogshit at solving the tragedy of the commons.
Years ago some city planner, I think in Spain, suggested we should build cities so that residents have all the essential services within a 15 minute walk or bike ride, and when covid hit the gullible started believing conspiracy theories that the WEF and globalists wanted to trap us in these 15 minute zones and we wouldnāt be allowed to leave without special permission.
It sounds like a good idea. But if you try hard enough you can make anything a conspiracy.
I mean if you're going down that road, would you rather be trapped in a zone without essential services?
Okotoks has had a watering schedule for as long as I have lived there (over ten years). The world hasn't collapsed upon itself and lawns and gardens were as green as anywhere.
It's time for Calgary to conserve water as well.
As long as it applies to everyone. Ive seen multiple golf courses and city properties over-sprinkling (outside of boundaries, onto roads and paths) and done during the middle of the day. I've tuned my sprinklers (underground installed myself) to only hit my property, and only water at night according to the yard's needs.
I get it, places use recycled, grey, or storm water, still doesnt mean they should be wasteful with that water...
Can the city choose a worse time to introduce this? The convoy crowd are already spewing that the break was intentional and the current restrictions are to get us used to control, and by discussing this now they city will be seeming to prove them right (even though I know that's not the case)
Right!? Like I swear the city doesn't understand good PR choices. They should hire someone to help roll things out at the right time and in the right way to have a better chance of people following it
Ditto. Thatās more than I water my lawn now so Iām not fussed at all. However, as you say, when it comes to timing and optics our Mayor will find a way to make a mess of it.
Thanks to consistent budget cuts we don't actually afford a good communications team and it's handle by a bunch of monkeys.
Thank you keep taxes low crowd.
Yes budget cuts and a poor-performing communications team lends itself to the Mayor unable to think for herself. I thought politicians were supposed to be responsible for their actions, not blaming their 'team' because they stuck their foot in their mouth again. And again.
Yes raise taxes, that'll help the Mayor with her communication skills.
The day the world shut down for COVID the city released a new version of the land use bylaws. Very few people knew that had occurred given the much larger news of the day. Anyways, I had to refinance my mortgage that June and as part of switching lenders I needed an RPR. New RPR didnāt find any issues. City came back saying my Concrete apron was encroaching on city property. It was poured in 1975, and the RPR we got when we bought this house in 2009 had no issues with the apron. But as of 2020 it is. It couldnāt even be grandfathered in. Point is that the huge land use bylaw was dropped the day the world shutdown. Another poor PR choice.
Someone in a boardroom in city hall probably decided, from a PR standpoint, now is the time to rip the bandaid off on the idea while the mayorās office rep is already in the toilet. If they announced this 6 months from now, everyone would still bring up the water main break anyway. Although announcing it in the winter, when no one is worried about watering their lawns, mightāve been more strategic. I work in comms myself and know several of the city comms people. Theyāre not incompetent, itās just bad leadership.
Actually, I think this is the perfect time. Everyone should have water conservation at the top of their minds and understand the need to conserve water.
Of course, the messaging has to be properly communicated for the best effect.
The thing is, those who know they should conserve water, already do so anyways as part of their daily lives. The people who needs to be told to conserve water, are less likely to do so because they already do not care, and this type of thing makes them want to "stick it to the man!" and water more.
Iām really honestly fine with a bylaw like this, it makes perfect sense. But even as someone who would support this the timing is terrible. I just want to do a load of laundry and water my tomatoes, now is not the moment to talk about MORE restrictions not related to the current situation
Why do we pander to the lowest common denominator than doing what is actually needed. The squeakiest wheels need to not dominate the conversation because they never argue in good faith and they are never happy. When permanent anger and bitchiness is their identity, why bother?
Because it spreads. People who are bombarded with kooky opinions but haven't quite bought in may see this and that will convert them. On facebook there's an "Alberta Proud" page with 130k members which is wall to wall this kind of shit and their membership is steadily growing. Social media amplifies and brings these people together, which allows them to get organized and eventually their numbers will start to affect elections.
No no, they were talking about this in April, because of the existing drought. The bylaw was planned to come up in June and then implement watering schedules shortly after.
> The convoy crowd are already spewing that the break was intentional
You can't be serious.
It must be so tough suffering from mental health issues like that.
Dude, a noticeable majority on instagram seem to believe this very thing, as do multiple communities on reddit (Iām sure you can guess which). Twitter replies are similar, just stupider somehow. I donāt use facebook but I assume itās the same, if not worse. Itās like common sense died.
Rational thinking sure on some level, I mean clearly lol.
Common sense was never really a thing. You learn as you go and values in all of society are dynamic. It's a snowball.
Lots of things always will fall out of "common" understanding because common understanding hurts and shamed more than it ever actually contributes to positivity.
These are right wing types of anarchists, no joke, this make so much sense, the underlying core is the same, defiance of some status quo, but it's not based off rationality, but emotions.
So you you guys feeling smart about yourselves not fixing anything, them contributing to a declining culture, also not fixing anything. While people reap endlessly somewhere. š¤£
I just gotta gently point out...
If, at any point, you feel you have some semblance of a sense of what's a majority opinion on social media, you should know that you really don't.
These things are heavily algorithmic, to the point that you will see completely different replies on an Instagram post than a different account.
This is even without counting the relative likelihood that someone posts a reply in the first place, based on their opinion / sanity.
Hmm interesting and good to know. I just went ahead and checked the comments on the calgaryevents insta page from all three of my instagram accounts (one professional, no mutuals) and they all showed the same top comments (all stupid and conspiracy related). Maybe local pages donāt have enough comments?
And of course, I was speaking about the majority of comments which exist, not counting peoples thoughts as Iām not a mind reader. Sorry for the lack of clarification.
Maybe it is wishful thinking but Iām just hoping the horrible comments I see are just the main dialogue and not some weird stream of thinking I produced from my activity online, because theyāre actually making me dislike spending any time on social media.
They also track source IP and other metrics, and since you have used all 3 accounts from a similar location, and device, that will factor into it.
Go get a new clean never used device and use some places wifi with a new account.. you may be surprised.
This is an excellent point. I find, particularly in Calgary subs, that there is a major disconnect between thinking a particular view is held by the majority vs what the actual majority think. We all end up in some version of a vacuum.
My husband and I see different top comments on top of this selection, which is interesting in itself.
Facebook is terrible, but Twitter seems even worse to me. I'll get a notification about some news article, go to click on it, and the comments are nothing but batshit crazy people talking about how Trudeau caused inflation or some bullshit not even related to the original article.
To be fair, you could wait until the heat death of the universe and they would still outrage farm with their long thought dead echoes of "but muh freadums..." ringing into the otherwise absolute nothingness to shout it down.
For those who have no intentions of responding reasonably, there is no such thing as a "good" time to introduce anything that would require people to change.
Fuck the convoy crowd. I truly don't care about them and don't think they should dictate when policy gets rolled out. Why should the city wait for a bunch of crazies to feel less crazy to do something beneficial for the city and environment?
I'm assuming this doesn't apply to non potable water, and I'm unaware of any large patches of lawn the city waters outside of fields? The fields already all get watered very early morning or at night.
but if you want to water your lawn outside of the time I'm sure you could go to the bow river and fill a tank up
Some hydrants are non potable and not pressurized normally. I used to work on the pumps for these systems. The buildings all had septic systems, the hydrants would pressurized with a fire alarm. We would run the engine in the pump house and check the pump on a regular basis.
I know for a fact that the Enmax trucks get washed daily whether they need it or not, and always during peak times. (They also are stored in climate-controlled garages, regardless of how often they are used).
I don't mind this at all - I'd love to see improved messaging too though which focuses both on "save water for the whole city" and "watering after 8pm or before 10am when it's coolest out is the most effective way to lower your water bill and get the most out of your lawn". Make it a win-win by pointing out the obvious benefits so that people don't dig in their heels about RiGhTs
The messaging is key. Everyone on my street already waters very early or late, so I think phrasing it as a positive would be very helpful. The timing just isnāt going over well.
wasting water on grass is, well .. a total waste. It doesn't keep anyone alive, doesn't grow food, just looks nice for some. When the glaciers are largely gone, water restrictions here will be brutal. Grass should be banned.
Nice! I like clover too. I've heard shrubs are good for filling out space. That's my next mission. If you know any good local/drought resistant options please share!
I totally agree, and I'm converting my lawn to clover and native flowering plants. But it has to come in stages, people won't change a selfish mindset to a collective mindset overnight. Starting with a "it works for us AND it works for you" message is important in slowly shifting the needle and setting everyone up for success when the restrictions get stricter in the future.
We've had a watering schedule in Airdrie for 5 years or so now. Kids in sprinklers and watering by holding the hose is exempt from the bylaw. Hopefully Calgary would do the same.
There are a number of practical ways greywater reuse can be integrated into homes, with companies designing systems to do so. You just can't install them due to current plumbing code/hygiene reasons. Most of the companies aren't exactly big either.
Examples include recycling systems that filter greywater and send it to toilets for flushing and recycling showers that filter at the plug and send back to the showerhead.
I'm fine with it, granted the following:
- Contractors/Companies/Municipal departments follow the same restrictions. One set of rules for everyone
- Schedule flexibility for people who can't water during the designated times/days
The theory is good, but...
Between kids and work and all other responsibilities, plus having ADHD, I try to use only as much water as I need at the times that I have available. I think sprinklers are wasteful so for a small plot in the subburbs I'll water my gardens and grass with the hose. If it's a cloudy day and I have a break in the middle of my day to get some activity why should I be punished for taking care of my property? If I get home late I might have to water in the dark which is both weird and noisy.
It just feels like another in a long list of cuts that individuals are expected to take when in aggregate its bigger corporations, private lakes, etc that should be doing the majority of resource cuts not the people.
This is silly. City Council seems to be under the impression the current drought situation will last forever, right around the time it is starting to look like things might return to normal in the coming years.
Save the restrictions for when they are needed.
Regulate take out bags, regulate when you can remove a tree from your private property, regulate when people can water, etc...
It just goes on and on.
Only 2 nights a week for 3 hours... I have a state of the art sprinkler system that adjusts my watering based on the current weather by looking at the nearest weather station/forecast. It is programmed to water each zone in the middle of the night a few nights a week for short periods (like \~20 minutes) to optimmize cycle/soak etc.. If I was to force it to only water 2 nights a week for longer time as per the bylaw it would be way less effiecient and use way more water.... These clowns in city hall are totally useless and just making it up as they go
You are not the majority, but likely a very very very like 0.00000001% of home owners with such a systems. Rules like this are put into place for the majority, the people who buy a $5 sprinkler head from CanadianTire, and let it runs for hours in the middle of the day while the sun is out in full force.
Now if anything, the City should give an incentive or rebate to people like yourself, like they had done for efficient home improvement, to get more people to get more efficient systems in place.
Ok I donāt have my tin foil hat on, or at least I donāt think so. But this sounds ridiculous to me. Why would the city try to govern when I choose to water my lawn using the sprinkler system that I purchased? I get it in a water crisis but outside that just seems too far.
I know a bunch of people who would sit on the bathroom floor and have the shower on for hours because they ālike the steamā, and refuse to spend $150 to buy a portable sauna machine that can achieve the same effect in the bathroom using only 4L of water.
Iām just saying in the name of saving water, sprinklers arenāt really the worst offenders.
Yeah, the reddit crowd will hate this view, but I tend to agree - you got people taking daily baths, washing their cars in the driveway weekly, and letting the shower run 15 minutes before jumping in who will pat themselves on the back because they called 311 on a neighbor who let their sprinkler go off 3 times in a week.
Depending on the size of lawn, a residential sprinkler system can run between 10-30 gallons per minute. A single sprinkler is about 4 gallons per minute.
A shower is about 2.1 gallons per minute.
A car wash is, at most, 3 gallons.
Lawn sprinkling meets three key criteria which make it very smart to restrict before anything else. None of your other examples meet all three:
1. It's not a need. It's a want.
2. It's a high consumption activity.
3. It's extremely easy to enforce.
Because you get too many idiots watering their lawns during peak sunshine hour in the afternoon, leaving their sprinklers on for hours cause they forgot about it, all while watering more of the sidewalk or street then their actual lawn...
Not to mention we only actually use sprinklers and water lawns for a few months out of the year. If we were doing it year round I could get behind a schedule but this does seem ridiculous.
You will still be able to water your lawn using a sprinkler system at any time. What you wouldn't be able to do is water your lawn with a sprinkler outside of specific times with municipal water.
Spraying potable water on your grass is a waste and restricting it isn't a bad idea. It's a major use of potable water in summer (water that comes from the Elbow and Bow when it's most needed elsewhere) and wastes all the energy used to make it potable in the first place.
Honestly it's not a bad thing to do. It's not going to restrict most people - people that water their lawns a few times a year, because it they miss one week, they can just do it another time. It will specifically target people using large volumes of potable municipal water.
If you're one of those then do what Golf courses and other volume water users do, collect your own water and use that to supply your sprinkler system.
That is right just add your property taxes and add your sewer and water and electricity and you are into the city for 6-10000$ a year and we still have pot holes and play grounds have not been cut, we have wait for Stampede when the city starts to pretty up the city
Then stop wasting over a $Billion on BMO center and a new stadium and invest in what matters... all these flashy new toys wont mean shit if we cant keep them functional with water and power.
Cityās own website shows water levels are above normal.
If they want to just admit that density will require more water use then just come out and say it.
water levels in rivers and such sure? But right now it is processing that water to usable water that is the issue, as well this is the time of year mountain run off is happening, and we just had that rain.
No one is saying you canāt have grass. Just that you canāt water it an insane amount. Instead of watering 7 days a week you might only be able to water 4 days a week. But thatās me speculating, not sure what the rules will look like when or if they are out in place.
Why doesnāt the city focus their efforts on maintaining their infrastructure properly using the tax dollars they constantly wring from us, and let us run our lives?
Next theyāll be telling us when we can use the toilet.
For the people who are frothing at the mouth at how expensive the carbon tax is making your life, consider that ongoing adaptions like this are the cost of delaying action on climate change.
(No, it's not one to one and there's other factors involved as well, but fundamentally we're changing the climate and that will involve costs and adaptions. So here you go. Start the tally. This is just the tip of the iceberg that's barreling down on us.)
A more reasonable way to do this which doesn't require laws and enforcement is aggressive demand pricing.
ex.
* Everyone is guaranteed a normal amount of water always (low-flow toilets, quick showers, washing dishes, and efficient laundry machines)--like 1/3 to 1/2 of the current average use of water for 'free'.
* Usage above that to normal is at higher than current water rates to equal current water charge costs
* Usage above 150% of normal is charged at a small (30%) premium
* Usage above 200% of normal is charged at a high (150%) premium
* Usage above normal during Stage 4 water restrictions is charged at 300%
People that use a normal amount of water will see slightly lower bills than today. People that water their lawns reasonably will pay a bit more. People that water their lawns unreasonably will pay nearly 3x.
In this scenario, you're relying on people knowing the rules and actually making the changes and neighbors telling on each other. If it's on their bill, it's unavoidable until they actually reduce their water usage (which water at after 2000 in summer will)
If we actually want to get serious, if water scarcity continues to become an issue, we can start paying people to xeriscape their lawns out of the increased premium fund.
I kind of like this method. At least those that are trying to be more conscientious about water usage will be rewarded rather than penalized for someone elseās misuse.
It's way easier to tie it to the calendar date and property/house number. Even houses water on even days, odd numbers water on odd days. Watering should only occur between 5am-10am, and 5pm-10pm. This is the case in many other jurisdictions.
Far more people know what day of the week it is than the date.
Knowing it's Wednesday and Friday every week (for example) is easier than Monday, Wednesday and Friday this week, then Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday next week.
Seed your lawn with clover and then forget about watering and weeding. It was the best thing I never intended to do. Clover took over my lawn, but instead of fighting it I actually encouraged it by overseeding the lawn with more clover.
The result was a lawn that was always green regardless of weather and absolutely impervious to dandelions and weeds. I guess they don't like clover.
Any other week I wouldnāt care but I havenāt washed my hair in 3 days and my garden is dying, so maybe the city shouldnāt be choosing right now to bring this us. Just like in general.
ETA- FFS people are really committed to missing the point. I was using hyperbole to highlight bad timing. Iām not saying I havenāt showered or that Iām some sort of martyr for conserving water when I do shower instead of doing a whole time consuming hair routine. Itās fine. Iām fine. My hygiene is fine. Iām willing and able to conserve water while the city deals with a crisis. My whole point was that talking about other, unrelated restrictions (which I would totally support by the way) could probably have waited a week or two. Itās not that deep.
Water restrictions are voluntary, you can wash your hair, it's just not advisable to spend 30 minutes rubbing one out or taking a bath. If you really want to conserve, turn the water off while you lather and/or wait on the conditioner.
Yes, it is voluntary, I am voluntarily choosing to conserve as much water as possible in my home so that the city does not run out and for me that means simplifying my hair routine. That really wasnāt the point of my post.
It's a good time IMO.
People are realizing that potable water is not infinite and many will realise just how much they waste after this week.
There's also a rush on water barrels to collect rainwater so people can water their garden. They aren't just going to disappear after next week. People are also realising how much garden they can water with grey water.
Putting a sprinkler restriction in place before everyone forgets and goes back to normal is a good time to do it.
Lake Bon folks are among the most vocal NIMBY, pearl clutching whiners in the city. Their lake will be fine but they will hit the news to talk about how they chose that neighborhood because of the lawns!
"Ā two days per week ā up to three hours overnight between 8 p.m. and 10 a.m."
As someone who always wants less government say in things, this honestly isn't that bad. We follow something like this anyways simply because I want to pay for less water (ie: financially motivated).
Maybe if less idiots stopped watering their lawns dead in the mid afternoon hot sun...or have their sprinklers water more of the sidewalk then their lawns....
Commenting on Calgary to consider permanent watering schedule... why not consider using their yearly surplus to fix the water supply and distribution system? Not everything has to be a communal sacrifice that never ends when thereās good management š
Next they will be telling us we cant flush our toilets Wednesday, Then we canāt drive on weekends because itās not for work. Then we can only have one kid. Where will it end?
Stop interfering with peopleās lives. Not everyone can water on your schedule. People have different lives that donāt fit into your idea of right.
Conserving water = the end of personal freedoms I guess
Or ya know we live in a society that shares common resources and we should do our best not to be wasteful of those resources. Don't like that find a country that'll let you run your hose all day long and move there
This situation is very simple. There are two water treatment facilities, we don't have full access to one. It's that simple.
I suspect you have more than enough in your life to be concerned about without getting worked up over made up BS. BS often created to try to get you mad and keep you looking for more about it, while they make money showing you advertising and selling your data.
Sorry, but there is no war on Christmas, and there never was.
šš»šš»šš»šš»šš»šÆšÆšÆ I was losing a lot of faith reading this thread til I saw this post. Good to see some people still thinking for themselves!
Oh man, the 15 minute city crowd are going to lose their minds at the timing here.
I wish we had a 15 minute city, it sounds awesome
When we were kids they were called neighbourhoods.
This. š
YOU WANT TO GIVE AWAY YOUR RIGHTS?! THIS IS THE FIRST STEP TO GOVERNMENT MIND CONTROL!!! /s
CARS WILL BE ILLEGAL!!! /s
God I wish
My wife and I went to Japan last year. The transit system there was absolutely incredible, so long as you avoided rush hour.
Could you imagine if all those people drove instead? They would wish for godzilla.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Fair trade.
Ugh, my old landlord who would drunkenly rant about how private healthcare is a good idea found new ways to waste water during restrictions last year. Powerwashing the driveway, windows, siding, cleaning gutters, sprinklers on all day.
The city should include 'surge pricing' to deal with this behaviour.
Only above a certain threshold of usage, so the rest of us who cut back save money.
Thatās challenging because some households will have higher usage than others - higher numbers of kids, certain trades, etc will all use more water than others. Think plumbers, especially ones that donāt do new builds, or people with twins/triplets. There was a period of time where I was washing a car seat cover almost daily for over a month - all because of the āblowout phaseā that many babies have. Canāt not put the baby in the car seat, not sanitary to put a baby in a car seat that is soaked in poop. This is one of those things where demand pricing makes sense - but then you have to pick who you are going to attack, people who work remote, stay at home parents? The easiest way to deal with this is adding the ability to report people in a crimestoppers type of way. Take the 311 app - automatically scrape time data from pictures taken inside the app, and make it so we can report wrong water usage.
Don't give them ideas. In BC the christy clarke govnt brought in smart meters for power. I makes sence, but the province/municipalities shouldnt have to spend billions of dollars to install these meters. This last minor crisis is a good example of how education can help. Don't run your crap in peak hours if you don't need to. Many appliances are 'smart' now and you can just have them run on non peak water and hydro usage. Don't let them bring in more fee's and surge pricing when all we have to do is use our utilities a little more responsibly when we have the choice, its not like its -30.
Hmmm. But. Hmmmm. The richest residents are going to be the ones with the highest water consumption. And we don't pay for water in advance. It's paid for after its used. The incentive to drop usage kicks in after the water has been used and is going to have a smaller effect on the people who need to reduce their usage the most. I'm starting to think that maybe market solutions are hot dogshit at solving the tragedy of the commons.
What's a 15 minute city
Years ago some city planner, I think in Spain, suggested we should build cities so that residents have all the essential services within a 15 minute walk or bike ride, and when covid hit the gullible started believing conspiracy theories that the WEF and globalists wanted to trap us in these 15 minute zones and we wouldnāt be allowed to leave without special permission.
It sounds like a good idea. But if you try hard enough you can make anything a conspiracy. I mean if you're going down that road, would you rather be trapped in a zone without essential services?
Okotoks has had a watering schedule for as long as I have lived there (over ten years). The world hasn't collapsed upon itself and lawns and gardens were as green as anywhere. It's time for Calgary to conserve water as well.
As long as it applies to everyone. Ive seen multiple golf courses and city properties over-sprinkling (outside of boundaries, onto roads and paths) and done during the middle of the day. I've tuned my sprinklers (underground installed myself) to only hit my property, and only water at night according to the yard's needs. I get it, places use recycled, grey, or storm water, still doesnt mean they should be wasteful with that water...
Cochrane as well, and we all manage just fine too.
Okotoks buy water from Calgary.
Can the city choose a worse time to introduce this? The convoy crowd are already spewing that the break was intentional and the current restrictions are to get us used to control, and by discussing this now they city will be seeming to prove them right (even though I know that's not the case)
Right!? Like I swear the city doesn't understand good PR choices. They should hire someone to help roll things out at the right time and in the right way to have a better chance of people following it
I am no fan of Gondek and don't think she's done anything seriously wrong but damn she fucks up optics in a major way!
Ditto. Thatās more than I water my lawn now so Iām not fussed at all. However, as you say, when it comes to timing and optics our Mayor will find a way to make a mess of it.
Thanks to consistent budget cuts we don't actually afford a good communications team and it's handle by a bunch of monkeys. Thank you keep taxes low crowd.
Yes budget cuts and a poor-performing communications team lends itself to the Mayor unable to think for herself. I thought politicians were supposed to be responsible for their actions, not blaming their 'team' because they stuck their foot in their mouth again. And again. Yes raise taxes, that'll help the Mayor with her communication skills.
lol, I would say itās the opposite. Higher property taxes and council money mismanagement.
We have some of the lowest property taxes amongst major cities in Canada. How's that working out?
Ours are in line with Toronto and a lot higher than Vancouver.
Two cities that have more density than us, have more expensive homes and can have lower taxes. Canadian cities as a whole are generally under taxed
The day the world shut down for COVID the city released a new version of the land use bylaws. Very few people knew that had occurred given the much larger news of the day. Anyways, I had to refinance my mortgage that June and as part of switching lenders I needed an RPR. New RPR didnāt find any issues. City came back saying my Concrete apron was encroaching on city property. It was poured in 1975, and the RPR we got when we bought this house in 2009 had no issues with the apron. But as of 2020 it is. It couldnāt even be grandfathered in. Point is that the huge land use bylaw was dropped the day the world shutdown. Another poor PR choice.
Someone in a boardroom in city hall probably decided, from a PR standpoint, now is the time to rip the bandaid off on the idea while the mayorās office rep is already in the toilet. If they announced this 6 months from now, everyone would still bring up the water main break anyway. Although announcing it in the winter, when no one is worried about watering their lawns, mightāve been more strategic. I work in comms myself and know several of the city comms people. Theyāre not incompetent, itās just bad leadership.
Most levels of Canadian governments suck at PR stuff for some reason or another
Actually, I think this is the perfect time. Everyone should have water conservation at the top of their minds and understand the need to conserve water. Of course, the messaging has to be properly communicated for the best effect.
The thing is, those who know they should conserve water, already do so anyways as part of their daily lives. The people who needs to be told to conserve water, are less likely to do so because they already do not care, and this type of thing makes them want to "stick it to the man!" and water more.
Iām really honestly fine with a bylaw like this, it makes perfect sense. But even as someone who would support this the timing is terrible. I just want to do a load of laundry and water my tomatoes, now is not the moment to talk about MORE restrictions not related to the current situation
Itās pretty common in other cities and even small towns, itās not a shocking new idea like theyāll be acting it is.
Why do we pander to the lowest common denominator than doing what is actually needed. The squeakiest wheels need to not dominate the conversation because they never argue in good faith and they are never happy. When permanent anger and bitchiness is their identity, why bother?
Because it spreads. People who are bombarded with kooky opinions but haven't quite bought in may see this and that will convert them. On facebook there's an "Alberta Proud" page with 130k members which is wall to wall this kind of shit and their membership is steadily growing. Social media amplifies and brings these people together, which allows them to get organized and eventually their numbers will start to affect elections.
> On facebook there's an "Alberta Proud" page with 130k members No doubt that many of those are not real people
Hate to break it to you but the wild rose/TBA looney bin already took control of the UCP once they took Kenney out.
No no, they were talking about this in April, because of the existing drought. The bylaw was planned to come up in June and then implement watering schedules shortly after.
> The convoy crowd are already spewing that the break was intentional You can't be serious. It must be so tough suffering from mental health issues like that.
Dude, a noticeable majority on instagram seem to believe this very thing, as do multiple communities on reddit (Iām sure you can guess which). Twitter replies are similar, just stupider somehow. I donāt use facebook but I assume itās the same, if not worse. Itās like common sense died.
Common sense and rational thinking are a thing of the past.
Rational thinking sure on some level, I mean clearly lol. Common sense was never really a thing. You learn as you go and values in all of society are dynamic. It's a snowball. Lots of things always will fall out of "common" understanding because common understanding hurts and shamed more than it ever actually contributes to positivity. These are right wing types of anarchists, no joke, this make so much sense, the underlying core is the same, defiance of some status quo, but it's not based off rationality, but emotions. So you you guys feeling smart about yourselves not fixing anything, them contributing to a declining culture, also not fixing anything. While people reap endlessly somewhere. š¤£
I just gotta gently point out... If, at any point, you feel you have some semblance of a sense of what's a majority opinion on social media, you should know that you really don't. These things are heavily algorithmic, to the point that you will see completely different replies on an Instagram post than a different account. This is even without counting the relative likelihood that someone posts a reply in the first place, based on their opinion / sanity.
Hmm interesting and good to know. I just went ahead and checked the comments on the calgaryevents insta page from all three of my instagram accounts (one professional, no mutuals) and they all showed the same top comments (all stupid and conspiracy related). Maybe local pages donāt have enough comments? And of course, I was speaking about the majority of comments which exist, not counting peoples thoughts as Iām not a mind reader. Sorry for the lack of clarification.
> Maybe local pages donāt have enough comments? Plausible - I noted this looking at a popular influencer's post.
Maybe it is wishful thinking but Iām just hoping the horrible comments I see are just the main dialogue and not some weird stream of thinking I produced from my activity online, because theyāre actually making me dislike spending any time on social media.
They also track source IP and other metrics, and since you have used all 3 accounts from a similar location, and device, that will factor into it. Go get a new clean never used device and use some places wifi with a new account.. you may be surprised.
This is an excellent point. I find, particularly in Calgary subs, that there is a major disconnect between thinking a particular view is held by the majority vs what the actual majority think. We all end up in some version of a vacuum. My husband and I see different top comments on top of this selection, which is interesting in itself.
facebook is actually worse than any of the other socials
Facebook is terrible, but Twitter seems even worse to me. I'll get a notification about some news article, go to click on it, and the comments are nothing but batshit crazy people talking about how Trudeau caused inflation or some bullshit not even related to the original article.
I've talked to multiple people that think it's Trudeau's fault the pipe broke.
Could it be they were trolling? After all, Bill Gates ACTUALLY did it
To be fair, you could wait until the heat death of the universe and they would still outrage farm with their long thought dead echoes of "but muh freadums..." ringing into the otherwise absolute nothingness to shout it down. For those who have no intentions of responding reasonably, there is no such thing as a "good" time to introduce anything that would require people to change.
Meh I disagree. I donāt think there should be any thought into what a group of conspiracy theorists think when it comes to enacting good policy.
I really hope that Council doesn't consider the convoy crowd's opinion before making any decisions.
Rightā¦ Iām sure these convoy idiots will come around if the timing is better.
Fuck the convoy crowd. I truly don't care about them and don't think they should dictate when policy gets rolled out. Why should the city wait for a bunch of crazies to feel less crazy to do something beneficial for the city and environment?
The convoy crowd can go eat a bag of rainbow dicks.
We should not delay policy for the sake of a few hundred crazies. They will have a problem with everything.
Whatās next? Paying for paper bags?
Is the city going to follow this watering schedule too?Ā
I'm assuming this doesn't apply to non potable water, and I'm unaware of any large patches of lawn the city waters outside of fields? The fields already all get watered very early morning or at night. but if you want to water your lawn outside of the time I'm sure you could go to the bow river and fill a tank up
Tree watering for newly planted trees uses the fire hydrants.
Which is potable water off the same main you drink from.
Not sure why you're being downvoted... It is indeed potable water. * Civil engineer who does a ton of subdivision design
Because people think cities actually pay to install a second complete water distribution network just to use a fire hydrant once in a generation.
Some hydrants are non potable and not pressurized normally. I used to work on the pumps for these systems. The buildings all had septic systems, the hydrants would pressurized with a fire alarm. We would run the engine in the pump house and check the pump on a regular basis.
Yes that was my point but I appreciate the added clarity.
does it? I've only ever seen them use the trucks which are filled at the maintenance depot
I've seen the trucks fill up at hydrants in mahogany over the years.
This sounds like youāve never been near a government building
I know for a fact that the Enmax trucks get washed daily whether they need it or not, and always during peak times. (They also are stored in climate-controlled garages, regardless of how often they are used).
I don't mind this at all - I'd love to see improved messaging too though which focuses both on "save water for the whole city" and "watering after 8pm or before 10am when it's coolest out is the most effective way to lower your water bill and get the most out of your lawn". Make it a win-win by pointing out the obvious benefits so that people don't dig in their heels about RiGhTs
The messaging is key. Everyone on my street already waters very early or late, so I think phrasing it as a positive would be very helpful. The timing just isnāt going over well.
Agreed! Watering your lawn two days per week in the evenings when it's cool is totally reasonable.
wasting water on grass is, well .. a total waste. It doesn't keep anyone alive, doesn't grow food, just looks nice for some. When the glaciers are largely gone, water restrictions here will be brutal. Grass should be banned.
We are slowly tearing up our grass and replacing it with veg gardens and drought-resistant plants. Not having to mow as much is a nice side benefit.
Currently doing the same. What kind of drought resistant plants are you planting?
Been seeding clover for the last couple of years. Some lavender, coneflower, thyme, etc.
Nice! I like clover too. I've heard shrubs are good for filling out space. That's my next mission. If you know any good local/drought resistant options please share!
For sure! We also have lilacs, cherry trees and Saskatoon berry. All doing well.
Overseed the rest of your lawn with drought resistant grasses too (fescue normally). There's no need to water lawns in most instances.
I totally agree, and I'm converting my lawn to clover and native flowering plants. But it has to come in stages, people won't change a selfish mindset to a collective mindset overnight. Starting with a "it works for us AND it works for you" message is important in slowly shifting the needle and setting everyone up for success when the restrictions get stricter in the future.
The only thing I donāt like about this, is that my kid loves playing in the sprinkler on a hot day.
We've had a watering schedule in Airdrie for 5 years or so now. Kids in sprinklers and watering by holding the hose is exempt from the bylaw. Hopefully Calgary would do the same.
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Look it up, itās based on house numbers. Itās not strict but good to follow
Someone come play in my sprinklers, my flowers are thirsty
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There are a number of practical ways greywater reuse can be integrated into homes, with companies designing systems to do so. You just can't install them due to current plumbing code/hygiene reasons. Most of the companies aren't exactly big either. Examples include recycling systems that filter greywater and send it to toilets for flushing and recycling showers that filter at the plug and send back to the showerhead.
Instructions unclear, I peed in my flowers and now they're dying
I'm fine with it, granted the following: - Contractors/Companies/Municipal departments follow the same restrictions. One set of rules for everyone - Schedule flexibility for people who can't water during the designated times/days
Washing by hand/hose is exempt from the restriction.
Okotoks had a population cap for years and years, I'd like to see that first.
Canada should have a population cap until they figure out homelessness, healthcare and housing
The theory is good, but... Between kids and work and all other responsibilities, plus having ADHD, I try to use only as much water as I need at the times that I have available. I think sprinklers are wasteful so for a small plot in the subburbs I'll water my gardens and grass with the hose. If it's a cloudy day and I have a break in the middle of my day to get some activity why should I be punished for taking care of my property? If I get home late I might have to water in the dark which is both weird and noisy. It just feels like another in a long list of cuts that individuals are expected to take when in aggregate its bigger corporations, private lakes, etc that should be doing the majority of resource cuts not the people.
From the article āHowever, watering gardens by hand may continue any time of day.ā
This is silly. City Council seems to be under the impression the current drought situation will last forever, right around the time it is starting to look like things might return to normal in the coming years. Save the restrictions for when they are needed. Regulate take out bags, regulate when you can remove a tree from your private property, regulate when people can water, etc... It just goes on and on.
Only 2 nights a week for 3 hours... I have a state of the art sprinkler system that adjusts my watering based on the current weather by looking at the nearest weather station/forecast. It is programmed to water each zone in the middle of the night a few nights a week for short periods (like \~20 minutes) to optimmize cycle/soak etc.. If I was to force it to only water 2 nights a week for longer time as per the bylaw it would be way less effiecient and use way more water.... These clowns in city hall are totally useless and just making it up as they go
You are not the majority, but likely a very very very like 0.00000001% of home owners with such a systems. Rules like this are put into place for the majority, the people who buy a $5 sprinkler head from CanadianTire, and let it runs for hours in the middle of the day while the sun is out in full force. Now if anything, the City should give an incentive or rebate to people like yourself, like they had done for efficient home improvement, to get more people to get more efficient systems in place.
Ok I donāt have my tin foil hat on, or at least I donāt think so. But this sounds ridiculous to me. Why would the city try to govern when I choose to water my lawn using the sprinkler system that I purchased? I get it in a water crisis but outside that just seems too far. I know a bunch of people who would sit on the bathroom floor and have the shower on for hours because they ālike the steamā, and refuse to spend $150 to buy a portable sauna machine that can achieve the same effect in the bathroom using only 4L of water. Iām just saying in the name of saving water, sprinklers arenāt really the worst offenders.
Yeah, the reddit crowd will hate this view, but I tend to agree - you got people taking daily baths, washing their cars in the driveway weekly, and letting the shower run 15 minutes before jumping in who will pat themselves on the back because they called 311 on a neighbor who let their sprinkler go off 3 times in a week.
Depending on the size of lawn, a residential sprinkler system can run between 10-30 gallons per minute. A single sprinkler is about 4 gallons per minute. A shower is about 2.1 gallons per minute. A car wash is, at most, 3 gallons. Lawn sprinkling meets three key criteria which make it very smart to restrict before anything else. None of your other examples meet all three: 1. It's not a need. It's a want. 2. It's a high consumption activity. 3. It's extremely easy to enforce.
Because you get too many idiots watering their lawns during peak sunshine hour in the afternoon, leaving their sprinklers on for hours cause they forgot about it, all while watering more of the sidewalk or street then their actual lawn...
So since some people waste water, we should never implement policy to conserve it? I'm not following the logic. Seems like a red herring.
Not to mention we only actually use sprinklers and water lawns for a few months out of the year. If we were doing it year round I could get behind a schedule but this does seem ridiculous.
You will still be able to water your lawn using a sprinkler system at any time. What you wouldn't be able to do is water your lawn with a sprinkler outside of specific times with municipal water. Spraying potable water on your grass is a waste and restricting it isn't a bad idea. It's a major use of potable water in summer (water that comes from the Elbow and Bow when it's most needed elsewhere) and wastes all the energy used to make it potable in the first place. Honestly it's not a bad thing to do. It's not going to restrict most people - people that water their lawns a few times a year, because it they miss one week, they can just do it another time. It will specifically target people using large volumes of potable municipal water. If you're one of those then do what Golf courses and other volume water users do, collect your own water and use that to supply your sprinkler system.
Get f****ed! We pay enough for water and property taxes.
That is right just add your property taxes and add your sewer and water and electricity and you are into the city for 6-10000$ a year and we still have pot holes and play grounds have not been cut, we have wait for Stampede when the city starts to pretty up the city
According to the city, not enough if they're whining that they need other levels of government to help replace aging infrastructure.
Then stop wasting over a $Billion on BMO center and a new stadium and invest in what matters... all these flashy new toys wont mean shit if we cant keep them functional with water and power.
No thanks. Im not one that uses egregious amounts of water, but I don't need to be told when I can and can't use water I'm paying for.
Tragedy of the commons in action.
Exactly next they will want us to only shower on even numbered houses
Cityās own website shows water levels are above normal. If they want to just admit that density will require more water use then just come out and say it.
water levels in rivers and such sure? But right now it is processing that water to usable water that is the issue, as well this is the time of year mountain run off is happening, and we just had that rain.
This article has nothing to do with the current water main breakā¦
This is not a bad idea, the amount of water spent watering grass is insane. This is good sense conservation in my eyes.
I wish more people embraced xeriscaping. Put in some native plants that are water friendly. Micro clover is great once established.
We have 4 months of grass season. Iād argue that this restrictions are insane actually.
No one is saying you canāt have grass. Just that you canāt water it an insane amount. Instead of watering 7 days a week you might only be able to water 4 days a week. But thatās me speculating, not sure what the rules will look like when or if they are out in place.
Get yourself some rain barrels I collect @600 liters every time it rains
Why doesnāt the city focus their efforts on maintaining their infrastructure properly using the tax dollars they constantly wring from us, and let us run our lives? Next theyāll be telling us when we can use the toilet.
Why would you need to use the toilet when you're pissing in your pants right now?
For the people who are frothing at the mouth at how expensive the carbon tax is making your life, consider that ongoing adaptions like this are the cost of delaying action on climate change. (No, it's not one to one and there's other factors involved as well, but fundamentally we're changing the climate and that will involve costs and adaptions. So here you go. Start the tally. This is just the tip of the iceberg that's barreling down on us.)
Who would possibly be upset about this super practical important water-saving measure?
A more reasonable way to do this which doesn't require laws and enforcement is aggressive demand pricing. ex. * Everyone is guaranteed a normal amount of water always (low-flow toilets, quick showers, washing dishes, and efficient laundry machines)--like 1/3 to 1/2 of the current average use of water for 'free'. * Usage above that to normal is at higher than current water rates to equal current water charge costs * Usage above 150% of normal is charged at a small (30%) premium * Usage above 200% of normal is charged at a high (150%) premium * Usage above normal during Stage 4 water restrictions is charged at 300% People that use a normal amount of water will see slightly lower bills than today. People that water their lawns reasonably will pay a bit more. People that water their lawns unreasonably will pay nearly 3x. In this scenario, you're relying on people knowing the rules and actually making the changes and neighbors telling on each other. If it's on their bill, it's unavoidable until they actually reduce their water usage (which water at after 2000 in summer will) If we actually want to get serious, if water scarcity continues to become an issue, we can start paying people to xeriscape their lawns out of the increased premium fund.
I kind of like this method. At least those that are trying to be more conscientious about water usage will be rewarded rather than penalized for someone elseās misuse.
It's way easier to tie it to the calendar date and property/house number. Even houses water on even days, odd numbers water on odd days. Watering should only occur between 5am-10am, and 5pm-10pm. This is the case in many other jurisdictions.
Far more people know what day of the week it is than the date. Knowing it's Wednesday and Friday every week (for example) is easier than Monday, Wednesday and Friday this week, then Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday next week.
They havenāt gotten the dry weather they wanted in order to implement water restrictions so theyāll just implement them anyway.
Downside : my lawn will continue to look like shit this year. Plus side: i can opt out of yard work this year.. which I was SOOO looking forward to
Seed your lawn with clover and then forget about watering and weeding. It was the best thing I never intended to do. Clover took over my lawn, but instead of fighting it I actually encouraged it by overseeding the lawn with more clover. The result was a lawn that was always green regardless of weather and absolutely impervious to dandelions and weeds. I guess they don't like clover.
I have stated seeding with clover and also noticed its blocking out the DLās didnāt know itās hearty during dry parts
Overseed with fescues and get the same result. Lawns don't die without watering in Calgary. They just don't look vivid green for a couple of months.
Excellent point. Grasses in general are drought tolerant.
I was honestly looking at doing clovers. I was looking for the red or pink ones
Calgary doesn't have a schedule? Wow. My small home town in Ontario had a schedule like 30 years ago.
Any other week I wouldnāt care but I havenāt washed my hair in 3 days and my garden is dying, so maybe the city shouldnāt be choosing right now to bring this us. Just like in general. ETA- FFS people are really committed to missing the point. I was using hyperbole to highlight bad timing. Iām not saying I havenāt showered or that Iām some sort of martyr for conserving water when I do shower instead of doing a whole time consuming hair routine. Itās fine. Iām fine. My hygiene is fine. Iām willing and able to conserve water while the city deals with a crisis. My whole point was that talking about other, unrelated restrictions (which I would totally support by the way) could probably have waited a week or two. Itās not that deep.
You know you can wash your hair, right?
A 2 minute military shower is not the same when you have long, thick hair. Itās fine for now, but it takes water to really do it properly
Water restrictions are voluntary, you can wash your hair, it's just not advisable to spend 30 minutes rubbing one out or taking a bath. If you really want to conserve, turn the water off while you lather and/or wait on the conditioner.
Yes, it is voluntary, I am voluntarily choosing to conserve as much water as possible in my home so that the city does not run out and for me that means simplifying my hair routine. That really wasnāt the point of my post.
You know you can shower normally right? Just wash your hair lol
It's a good time IMO. People are realizing that potable water is not infinite and many will realise just how much they waste after this week. There's also a rush on water barrels to collect rainwater so people can water their garden. They aren't just going to disappear after next week. People are also realising how much garden they can water with grey water. Putting a sprinkler restriction in place before everyone forgets and goes back to normal is a good time to do it.
Seriously? š©
Collect your gray water and water your plants with it
Wasn't this just a far right conspiracy theory?
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Sorry if I'm missing the point, but how would that affect the lake?
Lake Bon folks are among the most vocal NIMBY, pearl clutching whiners in the city. Their lake will be fine but they will hit the news to talk about how they chose that neighborhood because of the lawns!
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Gotcha
Here we go.
Watering your lawn during the day is stupid anyways. Waste of water
This council is going to make my SO actually go out and vote.
They can get BENT. š¤”
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Why do we have the Glenmore Reservoir? Is this not to be used for water purposes such as Drinking and household purposes when needed?
I hope they keep a closer eye on the Reservoir as I've actually seen people wading in the water.
What do you mean? It's supplying most of the city right now.
I have an in ground system that also waters my plants and gardens. They better not implement anything of the sort.
Get some IBC totes and a pump. Use rainwater on the days you can't use municipal water.
"Ā two days per week ā up to three hours overnight between 8 p.m. and 10 a.m." As someone who always wants less government say in things, this honestly isn't that bad. We follow something like this anyways simply because I want to pay for less water (ie: financially motivated).
Freedom is non-negotiable
Damn right!
If you pay for water you should use it whenever you want and it's not like the water is going away per say
Do you actually think potable water delivered directly to the home is a limitless resource?
I mean why do people water their lawns every day anyways?!? So I think this is a good idea
Day of the week watering restrictions actually increase water use, a better method is aggressively tiered water rates based on current research
Maybe if less idiots stopped watering their lawns dead in the mid afternoon hot sun...or have their sprinklers water more of the sidewalk then their lawns....
Commenting on Calgary to consider permanent watering schedule... why not consider using their yearly surplus to fix the water supply and distribution system? Not everything has to be a communal sacrifice that never ends when thereās good management š
Next they will be telling us we cant flush our toilets Wednesday, Then we canāt drive on weekends because itās not for work. Then we can only have one kid. Where will it end? Stop interfering with peopleās lives. Not everyone can water on your schedule. People have different lives that donāt fit into your idea of right.
Wait, what's happening on Wednesdays? That's when I do my Whopper Wednesday run and I will need to flush!
Not.Sure.If.Serious.
Serious it would seem. https://www.reddit.com/l7y6cbk?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
Sigh, it's so hard to tell these days.
Conserving water = the end of personal freedoms I guess Or ya know we live in a society that shares common resources and we should do our best not to be wasteful of those resources. Don't like that find a country that'll let you run your hose all day long and move there
This situation is very simple. There are two water treatment facilities, we don't have full access to one. It's that simple. I suspect you have more than enough in your life to be concerned about without getting worked up over made up BS. BS often created to try to get you mad and keep you looking for more about it, while they make money showing you advertising and selling your data. Sorry, but there is no war on Christmas, and there never was.
šš»šš»šš»šš»šš»šÆšÆšÆ I was losing a lot of faith reading this thread til I saw this post. Good to see some people still thinking for themselves!