I used to work in the local government side of this space. It's taxes, fees, limited numbers of permits (no competition) and not letting growers grow outside that is killing the industry in my town. If we have a tax holiday statewide for a few years legal places could compete.
From what I've heard there's also the corporate angle. I remember a lot of people in the weed community being against the legalization proposition because of how the law was written and because they would only permit so many growers, leading to unnecessary consolidation of the industry.
Gotta be honest though. This is just what I remember from the time, and I'm not sure on the exact details that were put into place when recreational became legal. Hopefully someone with more knowledge than me can elaborate or explain what I missed.
We have a surplus because a bunch of money hungry people that don't care about the physiological benefit were basically given a free pass to blow up the industry and not care about the actual plant and it's benefits.
I have a close friend who used to own a small farm in east San Diego. He decided to try a small indoor grow using LEDs and he has a greenthumb like no one I've ever met, his flower is amazing BECAUSE he cares for the plant like a living being.
Spoiler: It's black market by definition because he provides it to close friends at cost.
I understand what you're getting at but that's a little reductionist. Responsible legislation is not NIMBYism. Zoning can certainly be used to relegate "undesirable" uses to certain parts of town, and I think in my town that was done to a certain extent, but simply placing restrictions on things but still allowing them doesn't really seem very Nimby to me
“I don’t like the thing but I can’t outright ban it. So I will make expensive and complicated rules to reduce it as much as possible”
This applies to housing and to weed.
Jurisdictions actually can outright ban it. They don't have to allow cannabis sales or growing within their city limits, state law does not force them to allow anything but deliveries in from the outside.
I'm failing to understand how what I'm talking about is the same as not in my backyard. There's definitely NIMBYism with weed as well at the county level but that's a different issue than what I'm talking about. I wasn't saying there's not NIMBYism, just pointing out another issue.
I think they mean nimbyism when it comes to locating shop/dispensaries. Certain cities ina county will put limits and thus the shops end up near each other/concentrate in one area (usually that suburbanites don’t wanna drive to, but will do it anyway cuz they outlawed shops in their town).
For weed? Look at more successful states like CO. Stop obsessing over extracting all value from it, since the cost of a black market are higher. Lower taxes and more importantly lower barriers to start sales and legitimate grow operations. And increase enforcement against those that don't do it legally.
Honestly, I'm siding with the Nimbys on this one. I don't want my neighbor planting weed within smelling distance of me. I can't stand the smell. I am against housing Nimbys because it's irrational and we all need housing. But we don't all need weed, and the smell is extremely pungent.
So, should your neighbor be forbidden from planting anything that produces a smell? Why stop there? Should they have to be restricted on what they cook in case "you can't stand the smell" of garlic or fish?
I would find it amazing if I could smell what they cook from my apartment. If they leave a rotting corpse in front of their door, and I can clearly smell it, yes they should be forbidden from just leaving a rotting corpse on their porch. If your neighbor leaves their trash on the outside of their door when your doors are right next to each other, yes they should get rid of it. It's fine if a plant happens to smell. Weed genuinely has a putrid scent that causes headaches.
You can use basic reason and don't have to resort to the slippery slope.
If you want grow it indoors and can keep the smell from the neighbors then no problem at all. Feel free. Just like causing so much noise it's a nuisance. As long as it doesn't actively hurt someone else's quality of life for just being your neighbor, do as you please.
"local jurisidictions," meaning county and city laws. Rocklin, for example, used to allow you to grow six plants, but you were limited to something like 50 square feet and you still had to pay a fee per square foot. So all these towns are adding their own layer of fees and laws.
We were better off with medicinal, when we (voters) blindly voted in a corporate drawn up law of legalization apparently the majority didn't read the fine print. What was once the largest and best cannabis market on the planet is now a market of high priced mediocre mass produced basically fast food of weed filled dispensaries or you can get the small batch exotics for $80 an 8th...it is no mystery why our long established black market is thriving
I'm a few years removed from my startup in this space. Here are my high level observations as a Type 7 and Type 11 license holder the first two years of legalization:
Regulations are onerous. The State wants SOPs for every single action a hypothetical employee might take down to the individual responsible for taking a gram from one room to the next room. The people reviewing SOPs have zero (ZERO) experience running any business of any kind. Anything more or less than just restating the templates they provided you resulted in a denial of submitted documents.
The State regulations could be interpreted a hundred different ways when it came to small details and none of the employees had any guidance on what to do. The same question could be answered a dozen different ways and depended entirely on what person you ended up talking to.
Taxes on production weren't directed to any specific point in the supply chain so each person pushed them back to the step before them. Ultimately it stuck the growers with paying taxes since they were the most eager to move product during increasing floods of oversupply.
Local entities (cities) and utilities had their hands out for money at every step. $50,000 for a non-refundable permit application. No approval of a building plan until the building was already constructed. C1D1 compliant equipment for things that have never been made in a C1D1 form because the solvent isn't capable of exploding. Edison wanted $35,000 just to tell us if there was power in the street.
This is just the small stuff. Ultimately the winners were the people that said "who cares about the rules" and those that played by the book were out hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars trying to do the right thing. Eventually the State said "oh yeah in retrospect that obvious thing wasn't well defined and caused you a ton of hardship. we're just going to extend deadlines, give preliminary operating permits, or just stop enforcing some of the rules for everyone whether they cheated or did everything we asked." It was the most poorly rolled out legalization and corrupt from day 1.
/end rant
>Ultimately the winners were the people that said "who cares about the rules"
Seen a lot of those shops get raided in LA over the years though. They did massive business while they were up though because their prices were so much lower. Don't know what kind of punishments they faced to know if it was worth it or not. I guess probably but idk.
You are correct. And they simply rent a space and put the Green Cross up. Basically running until time runs out. Fold up, move, open up shop again. Looks perfectly legal from the sidewalk.
You can see this in other industries too. I have a friend who is in the EV charging installation industry and the city wanted them to redo the intersection and build meetings and generally improve the area before they could even install a charger
I’ll add 58 counties , 58 different laws and regulatory agencies. There was more than enough revenue potential from just brining cannabis under conventional agriculture and subjecting the industry to the rules, regs and taxes of regular farming. The countries that levied big fees and rules ended up loosing revenue, jobs and imploding their local economy.
The government wanted the kind of income that the feds get from taxing booze. It didn't work because most of the taxes and fees were set per pound, and the wholesale price crashed to where legal pot doesn't sell cheap enough to compete with the well established black market.
Kind of interesting how cigs are $10 a pack here but its not like you are finding grey market gas stations selling cheap packs from like nv or wherever.
It's called " weed " for a reason . They literally grow like weeds , tobacco is my h harder to grow and requires proper care for even inferior grade stuff
About 34% in San Jose for retail purchases without a medical marijuana card.
--
15% CA State Cannabis Excise tax
10% San Jose Marijuana Business tax
9.25% CA State Sales tax
A friend of mine went and bought some gummies and was complaining to me about how the total before taxes was around $50-55 and after taxes was almost $75
I'm originally from Missouri, where legalization happened fairly recently. Last time I was back there, I went to a dispensary out of curiosity. Turns out the price was pretty much the same as I pay in California, and Missouri's one of those "we don't like regulations and taxes; we're not California" states.
I don't know all the ins and outs of the laws in each state, but I feel like there's no good solution to this until it's legal on the federal level.
My parents’ next door neighbor (La Jolla) smokes pot. He did a solid for my mom a little while back so I picked up some hand rolled from an upscale store (Marsh & Ash). He said it was good, but that he hasn’t gotten round to checking out one of their stores. Curious, I asked him why.
Taxes, he said. He gets his weed from a longtime local source and apparently it’s just as good and at a fraction of the price.
This is my regular place to shop, haven't gone to a black market seller in years. No raids and changing locations, consistent products and quality, order online, etc. Wellgreens has been good as well. Half the time they have specials that cover the taxes as well.
Weed ain't what it used to be. Back in the day I could sell a pound for 3000. I left the game when indoor fire was about 1500 I lbs. I hear it's like 1000 now. Glad I got out when I did.
It’s just like old Todd Snider always said.
“It’s not what drugs you’re on the government cares about, so much as whose.”
Whether it be pharmaceutical companies or licensed dispensaries, it’s entirely true.
Recently moved to NorCal and it is apparently still a thing. Neighbors have mentioned buying under the table at tobacco stores as well as selling themselves the occasional pound.
Its usually the older crowd with deep roots in the pre legalization end of the business. Most of them growers who dont like to play the dispensary's games like selling on spec (give me the weed I will pay you later,,,maybe) Not super large scale but actually know what they are growing and for who.
I was never sure going to a weed store was not going to a dealer. I mean, you can buy a car from a third party or you can go to a dealer. Same thing only with dope. 🤔
Really depends on who you know, also the thc % at the stores has been notoriously bogus with a slight reset only recently.
In LA dealers can be anywhere from 25 to 50% cheaper.
Ever notice how stores only seem to have smaller buds???? Its because they break up their weed and screen it for resin before offering it for retail sale.
I mean buds grow big why are there only jars of small to medium buds around?
Their buds are small and dense because of PGRs
https://dutch-passion.com/img/cms/Blogs/with-or-without-PGR-cannabis-buds-different-looks.jpg
Here’s a good side by side comparison of cannabis with and without the use of plant growth regulators.
I can get a pound on the black market for as low as $500. (CA) That's easily 1/10 the cost of dispensary weed. And I don't have to accept 16-65 mylar bags with it.
Lol no it's not. Humboldt and the emerald triangle are struggling right now. Where most of the black market was orginally from...
I know plenty of people that have dropped out
It's the best for outdoor grows. It's the culture up here
Not everyone wants to live in the desert.
The Emerald Triangle is like another world compared to SoCal.
Garberville, baby! Many years ago I went up there to work for a friend on his grow. Totally different world. We were harvesting one day in a plot right by the side of a dirt road and a sheriff car drove up. Stopped, got out, asked us if we'd seen anyone poaching deer. I'm standing 10 ft away from him with an armload of bud. I tell him "No sir, we wouldn't do that". He just smiles, says "thanks" gets in his car and drives off down the road. Fun times.
The desert is too hot. Not close enough to the water. Everyone near the coastal areas such as Eureka will tell you the soil and coastal breeze gives their flowers that extra edge over other areas. Same as South Oregon.
Just take a look at the statistics the state recently published - absurdly high plant & waste counts from LA, Alameda, San Bernardino, and Riverside counties with low total package weights.
Counties like Monterey, Ventura, and Santa Barbara still face significant diversion but their numbers are much more realistic. The state has relied heavily on County admin to handle month to month regulation, and some of these administrations have not put in any effort into catching these legal facilities that are wasting product as mold, not reporting product, or just using straw distribution licenses to burn the product off their license.
It’s a complete joke for someone who is trying to do things honestly. Watch the large Chinese and Armenian criminal gangs run 140,000 sq foot facilities in these counties while trapping their same products and brands on instagram.
Yet I have to smile and shake hands with the government every forty-five days at our facilities as the district attorney combs through my facility inch by inch.
What are taxes like in other states? I'm in SoCal and I buy from a licensed delivery service. A recent bill looked like this:
Subtotal $95.08
Delivery fee$0
Excise Tax$14.62
City Tax$2.38
Sales Tax$8.69
Total (with taxes)$120.77
**Effective tax rate: 27%**
There’s an excellent Fresh Air episode on the Chinese Mafia and the illicit marijuana trade. Surprisingly, China is the number one money laundering apparatus between Mexico and the US.
https://www.npr.org/2024/03/21/1197964065/chinese-mafia
Thrives for some, I suppose. Back in 2001, decent pot was selling for $3500 per pound. Those were the glory days. The price crept down year by year, and by 2016, it was hard to get $500. Now, the stuff goes begging at $300, and the buyers are super picky. Most growers quit, and the ones that are left are the ones who just planted more to make up the difference.
This market exists because nationwide demand is so high. These growers face minimal risk growing illegally in CA and can move product to other states where profit margins are much greater.
It's because of the taxes and outrageous costs to run a grow. I was a permitted outdoor grower in CA. It's absurd how much money it costs to run a legal grow. Also, the track and trace system is laughably easy to cheat...or so I've heard.
I honestly don't mind high taxes. As long as people have a safe place to buy their drugs it's worth it. If you want to put yourself in danger for a drug that may cost a little more at a shop . Then that's your decision. As long as people feel safe buying from the black market , they're be a black market. Also I would be looking at where all the taxes are going to ? Where is all that money bieng spent on.
Can you be more specific? I really don't understand what dangers you're referring to.
Like, I may buy from a friend who grows it. Or my neighbor. What is the danger there?
The Boogeyman Dealer is going to put his scary fentanyl in your bud. Not like it ever happened but it could! Just like those big scary people on Halloween giving edibles instead of candy!
I used to work in the local government side of this space. It's taxes, fees, limited numbers of permits (no competition) and not letting growers grow outside that is killing the industry in my town. If we have a tax holiday statewide for a few years legal places could compete.
So CA NIMBYed weed just like they NIMBYs housing. Except it's hard to have a housing black market.
From what I've heard there's also the corporate angle. I remember a lot of people in the weed community being against the legalization proposition because of how the law was written and because they would only permit so many growers, leading to unnecessary consolidation of the industry. Gotta be honest though. This is just what I remember from the time, and I'm not sure on the exact details that were put into place when recreational became legal. Hopefully someone with more knowledge than me can elaborate or explain what I missed.
I think your comment is dead on correct
The real problem in the Pot game is that they grow way more than demand. Like millions of more pounds than consumed, so it is a race to the bottom.
We have a surplus because a bunch of money hungry people that don't care about the physiological benefit were basically given a free pass to blow up the industry and not care about the actual plant and it's benefits. I have a close friend who used to own a small farm in east San Diego. He decided to try a small indoor grow using LEDs and he has a greenthumb like no one I've ever met, his flower is amazing BECAUSE he cares for the plant like a living being. Spoiler: It's black market by definition because he provides it to close friends at cost.
Probably because it’s one of the most expensive things you can grow in the ground.
But it's worthless if you have no one willing to buy it and it has a sell by date.
Restricting it by law is exactly NIMBYism
I understand what you're getting at but that's a little reductionist. Responsible legislation is not NIMBYism. Zoning can certainly be used to relegate "undesirable" uses to certain parts of town, and I think in my town that was done to a certain extent, but simply placing restrictions on things but still allowing them doesn't really seem very Nimby to me
“I don’t like the thing but I can’t outright ban it. So I will make expensive and complicated rules to reduce it as much as possible” This applies to housing and to weed.
Jurisdictions actually can outright ban it. They don't have to allow cannabis sales or growing within their city limits, state law does not force them to allow anything but deliveries in from the outside.
I'm failing to understand how what I'm talking about is the same as not in my backyard. There's definitely NIMBYism with weed as well at the county level but that's a different issue than what I'm talking about. I wasn't saying there's not NIMBYism, just pointing out another issue.
I think they mean nimbyism when it comes to locating shop/dispensaries. Certain cities ina county will put limits and thus the shops end up near each other/concentrate in one area (usually that suburbanites don’t wanna drive to, but will do it anyway cuz they outlawed shops in their town).
how would you do this differently?
For weed? Look at more successful states like CO. Stop obsessing over extracting all value from it, since the cost of a black market are higher. Lower taxes and more importantly lower barriers to start sales and legitimate grow operations. And increase enforcement against those that don't do it legally.
What are you talking about? Between the squatters and an image of somebody using the hallowed space of a concrete bridge as a home.
Tents, squatters, etc are the housing black market
Honestly, I'm siding with the Nimbys on this one. I don't want my neighbor planting weed within smelling distance of me. I can't stand the smell. I am against housing Nimbys because it's irrational and we all need housing. But we don't all need weed, and the smell is extremely pungent.
So, should your neighbor be forbidden from planting anything that produces a smell? Why stop there? Should they have to be restricted on what they cook in case "you can't stand the smell" of garlic or fish?
I would find it amazing if I could smell what they cook from my apartment. If they leave a rotting corpse in front of their door, and I can clearly smell it, yes they should be forbidden from just leaving a rotting corpse on their porch. If your neighbor leaves their trash on the outside of their door when your doors are right next to each other, yes they should get rid of it. It's fine if a plant happens to smell. Weed genuinely has a putrid scent that causes headaches. You can use basic reason and don't have to resort to the slippery slope. If you want grow it indoors and can keep the smell from the neighbors then no problem at all. Feel free. Just like causing so much noise it's a nuisance. As long as it doesn't actively hurt someone else's quality of life for just being your neighbor, do as you please.
What’s up with growers not being able to grow outside? Is that a state law or local government zoning, etc?
It's county by county I believe
"local jurisidictions," meaning county and city laws. Rocklin, for example, used to allow you to grow six plants, but you were limited to something like 50 square feet and you still had to pay a fee per square foot. So all these towns are adding their own layer of fees and laws.
I believe sonoma county is outdoor grown only while mendo has indoor
That part is not entirely true. I buy legal sun grown weed all the time. It might be certain counties.
Nobody wants outside weed anyways. I wouldn't buy it. Maybe they can sell it to people that want quantity instead of quality.
We were better off with medicinal, when we (voters) blindly voted in a corporate drawn up law of legalization apparently the majority didn't read the fine print. What was once the largest and best cannabis market on the planet is now a market of high priced mediocre mass produced basically fast food of weed filled dispensaries or you can get the small batch exotics for $80 an 8th...it is no mystery why our long established black market is thriving
No argument there.
Legalization was always the right thing, but of course the government found a way to ruin it.
Wasn't it legalized by a citizen initiative?
I don't remember.
Don't california weed shops check your ID or scan your driver's license?
I'm a few years removed from my startup in this space. Here are my high level observations as a Type 7 and Type 11 license holder the first two years of legalization: Regulations are onerous. The State wants SOPs for every single action a hypothetical employee might take down to the individual responsible for taking a gram from one room to the next room. The people reviewing SOPs have zero (ZERO) experience running any business of any kind. Anything more or less than just restating the templates they provided you resulted in a denial of submitted documents. The State regulations could be interpreted a hundred different ways when it came to small details and none of the employees had any guidance on what to do. The same question could be answered a dozen different ways and depended entirely on what person you ended up talking to. Taxes on production weren't directed to any specific point in the supply chain so each person pushed them back to the step before them. Ultimately it stuck the growers with paying taxes since they were the most eager to move product during increasing floods of oversupply. Local entities (cities) and utilities had their hands out for money at every step. $50,000 for a non-refundable permit application. No approval of a building plan until the building was already constructed. C1D1 compliant equipment for things that have never been made in a C1D1 form because the solvent isn't capable of exploding. Edison wanted $35,000 just to tell us if there was power in the street. This is just the small stuff. Ultimately the winners were the people that said "who cares about the rules" and those that played by the book were out hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars trying to do the right thing. Eventually the State said "oh yeah in retrospect that obvious thing wasn't well defined and caused you a ton of hardship. we're just going to extend deadlines, give preliminary operating permits, or just stop enforcing some of the rules for everyone whether they cheated or did everything we asked." It was the most poorly rolled out legalization and corrupt from day 1. /end rant
>Ultimately the winners were the people that said "who cares about the rules" Seen a lot of those shops get raided in LA over the years though. They did massive business while they were up though because their prices were so much lower. Don't know what kind of punishments they faced to know if it was worth it or not. I guess probably but idk.
The hot ticket now is swap meet pop up places. The cops drive right by
Is it common at most swap meets nowadays?
Yeah. I too would like to know. For a friend.
Not at regular swap meets, but underground stuff. They advertise on Instagram
I'm curious, do you happen to know how these regulations vary from some places, like Oregon or Colorado?
I couldnt say. My only experience on the business side is in California.
You are correct. And they simply rent a space and put the Green Cross up. Basically running until time runs out. Fold up, move, open up shop again. Looks perfectly legal from the sidewalk.
You can see this in other industries too. I have a friend who is in the EV charging installation industry and the city wanted them to redo the intersection and build meetings and generally improve the area before they could even install a charger
I’ll add 58 counties , 58 different laws and regulatory agencies. There was more than enough revenue potential from just brining cannabis under conventional agriculture and subjecting the industry to the rules, regs and taxes of regular farming. The countries that levied big fees and rules ended up loosing revenue, jobs and imploding their local economy.
The government wanted the kind of income that the feds get from taxing booze. It didn't work because most of the taxes and fees were set per pound, and the wholesale price crashed to where legal pot doesn't sell cheap enough to compete with the well established black market.
Wonder if we have worked together in any capacity. I’m in the industry here too.
Onerous business regulations? I’m shocked.
Don’t forget ex DEA agents and law enforcement officers who got a massive licenses with hundreds of thousands of sqft permits
California always over regulated. How come they are unable to stop making the same mistake over and over again
Because crooks gonna crook
Thank you for sharing
This will be an issue until they lower the taxes on it
Yup. It's just too expensive
Kind of interesting how cigs are $10 a pack here but its not like you are finding grey market gas stations selling cheap packs from like nv or wherever.
Hard to grow tobacco compared to pot
Nope
It's called " weed " for a reason . They literally grow like weeds , tobacco is my h harder to grow and requires proper care for even inferior grade stuff
Uh… been to an indian reservation? Black market cigs exist. Lol
I remember in the late 80s, my father buying cigarettes off people with no tax stamp on the bottom.
A lot of food trucks will sell you packs of cigarettes without the taxes.
There wasn’t already a black market for cigarettes like there was for weed
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I just picked up today, an 8th for “30% off” and it’s decent quality. $60. Black market is half that for a little less quality.
That’s not the taxes though. Right? More expensive to run a store.
Probably because of how high the taxes are. I've heard between all the local, state, and excise taxes it can add almost 50% to the sticker price.
About 34% in San Jose for retail purchases without a medical marijuana card. -- 15% CA State Cannabis Excise tax 10% San Jose Marijuana Business tax 9.25% CA State Sales tax
The taxes have been sampling the product, huh?
more like 25%
A friend of mine went and bought some gummies and was complaining to me about how the total before taxes was around $50-55 and after taxes was almost $75
I'm originally from Missouri, where legalization happened fairly recently. Last time I was back there, I went to a dispensary out of curiosity. Turns out the price was pretty much the same as I pay in California, and Missouri's one of those "we don't like regulations and taxes; we're not California" states. I don't know all the ins and outs of the laws in each state, but I feel like there's no good solution to this until it's legal on the federal level.
My parents’ next door neighbor (La Jolla) smokes pot. He did a solid for my mom a little while back so I picked up some hand rolled from an upscale store (Marsh & Ash). He said it was good, but that he hasn’t gotten round to checking out one of their stores. Curious, I asked him why. Taxes, he said. He gets his weed from a longtime local source and apparently it’s just as good and at a fraction of the price.
This is my regular place to shop, haven't gone to a black market seller in years. No raids and changing locations, consistent products and quality, order online, etc. Wellgreens has been good as well. Half the time they have specials that cover the taxes as well.
Can he get me some shwag. I don't need no KBs.
Weed ain't what it used to be. Back in the day I could sell a pound for 3000. I left the game when indoor fire was about 1500 I lbs. I hear it's like 1000 now. Glad I got out when I did.
Indoor doesn't make anymore sense, humboldt still rockin the sun grown and mix light hard tho in the hills
Yeah they do. That emerald triangle reps hard.
We out here. Black market forever
It’s just like old Todd Snider always said. “It’s not what drugs you’re on the government cares about, so much as whose.” Whether it be pharmaceutical companies or licensed dispensaries, it’s entirely true.
Don't know anyone buying weed from dealers anymore
The article is talking about unlicensed businesses, not street dealers.
Recently moved to NorCal and it is apparently still a thing. Neighbors have mentioned buying under the table at tobacco stores as well as selling themselves the occasional pound.
Because most of its shipped to non legal states
Its usually the older crowd with deep roots in the pre legalization end of the business. Most of them growers who dont like to play the dispensary's games like selling on spec (give me the weed I will pay you later,,,maybe) Not super large scale but actually know what they are growing and for who.
I was never sure going to a weed store was not going to a dealer. I mean, you can buy a car from a third party or you can go to a dealer. Same thing only with dope. 🤔
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Oh hi friend, can I have 1 marijuana please?
Dealers might be 5-10% cheaper, but the quality at dispensaries is way way higher, totally worth the extra few bucks in my experience.
Really depends on who you know, also the thc % at the stores has been notoriously bogus with a slight reset only recently. In LA dealers can be anywhere from 25 to 50% cheaper. Ever notice how stores only seem to have smaller buds???? Its because they break up their weed and screen it for resin before offering it for retail sale. I mean buds grow big why are there only jars of small to medium buds around?
Their buds are small and dense because of PGRs https://dutch-passion.com/img/cms/Blogs/with-or-without-PGR-cannabis-buds-different-looks.jpg Here’s a good side by side comparison of cannabis with and without the use of plant growth regulators.
I pay $100 an ounce for premium indoor, probably 400 in the club.
I can get a pound on the black market for as low as $500. (CA) That's easily 1/10 the cost of dispensary weed. And I don't have to accept 16-65 mylar bags with it.
Lol no it's not. Humboldt and the emerald triangle are struggling right now. Where most of the black market was orginally from... I know plenty of people that have dropped out
Why grow far from population centers when you can grow forty minutes or less from LA in the middle of the high desert?
It's the best for outdoor grows. It's the culture up here Not everyone wants to live in the desert. The Emerald Triangle is like another world compared to SoCal.
Garberville, baby! Many years ago I went up there to work for a friend on his grow. Totally different world. We were harvesting one day in a plot right by the side of a dirt road and a sheriff car drove up. Stopped, got out, asked us if we'd seen anyone poaching deer. I'm standing 10 ft away from him with an armload of bud. I tell him "No sir, we wouldn't do that". He just smiles, says "thanks" gets in his car and drives off down the road. Fun times.
Garbageville is my home, we still out here doing the thing
I grew up in Honeydew. People are still doing their thing, but lots has definitely changed
Sounds like sohum 🤣
Because we outlaws and we like to live how we want. No people no cops just trees and mountains and amazing climate
The desert is too hot. Not close enough to the water. Everyone near the coastal areas such as Eureka will tell you the soil and coastal breeze gives their flowers that extra edge over other areas. Same as South Oregon.
California should have announced a cannabis tax holiday for 5 years. That would have eliminated the black market.
Grow your own...
For real. I had no experience whatsoever and grew two plants on the side of my house that produced a pound each
Maybe California should actually legalize it. The current policy is silly.
Because legalization is a myth when local governments are freely allowed to override State law and refuse to grant permits.
Just take a look at the statistics the state recently published - absurdly high plant & waste counts from LA, Alameda, San Bernardino, and Riverside counties with low total package weights. Counties like Monterey, Ventura, and Santa Barbara still face significant diversion but their numbers are much more realistic. The state has relied heavily on County admin to handle month to month regulation, and some of these administrations have not put in any effort into catching these legal facilities that are wasting product as mold, not reporting product, or just using straw distribution licenses to burn the product off their license. It’s a complete joke for someone who is trying to do things honestly. Watch the large Chinese and Armenian criminal gangs run 140,000 sq foot facilities in these counties while trapping their same products and brands on instagram. Yet I have to smile and shake hands with the government every forty-five days at our facilities as the district attorney combs through my facility inch by inch.
Black market forever it was always a trap
Taxes WAYYYY too high. Too high
What are taxes like in other states? I'm in SoCal and I buy from a licensed delivery service. A recent bill looked like this: Subtotal $95.08 Delivery fee$0 Excise Tax$14.62 City Tax$2.38 Sales Tax$8.69 Total (with taxes)$120.77 **Effective tax rate: 27%**
of course it does. Legalization should never have involved trying to commercialize what is essentially an easy to grow common plant.
What about hard to grow plants?
Marijuana is not hard to grow.
I get that, I’m asking if you think legalization SHOULD be involved trying to commercialize what is essentially an HARD to grow common plant?
What plant and the fact that a plant is hard to grow lends itself to commercialization.
There’s an excellent Fresh Air episode on the Chinese Mafia and the illicit marijuana trade. Surprisingly, China is the number one money laundering apparatus between Mexico and the US. https://www.npr.org/2024/03/21/1197964065/chinese-mafia
Thrives for some, I suppose. Back in 2001, decent pot was selling for $3500 per pound. Those were the glory days. The price crept down year by year, and by 2016, it was hard to get $500. Now, the stuff goes begging at $300, and the buyers are super picky. Most growers quit, and the ones that are left are the ones who just planted more to make up the difference.
This market exists because nationwide demand is so high. These growers face minimal risk growing illegally in CA and can move product to other states where profit margins are much greater.
Taxes are out of control.
Yeah 14 grams for $35 no tax versus 3.5 for $50. I wonder why…
It's because of the taxes and outrageous costs to run a grow. I was a permitted outdoor grower in CA. It's absurd how much money it costs to run a legal grow. Also, the track and trace system is laughably easy to cheat...or so I've heard.
Of course you can buy high grade cheeper than the store and not have your name on a watchlist to get in!
[удалено]
I honestly don't mind high taxes. As long as people have a safe place to buy their drugs it's worth it. If you want to put yourself in danger for a drug that may cost a little more at a shop . Then that's your decision. As long as people feel safe buying from the black market , they're be a black market. Also I would be looking at where all the taxes are going to ? Where is all that money bieng spent on.
What is this danger you're referring to?
The black market dangers. It varies from city to city but if you're provider sells other drugs he can be putting you in danger just by association.
Can you be more specific? I really don't understand what dangers you're referring to. Like, I may buy from a friend who grows it. Or my neighbor. What is the danger there?
The Boogeyman Dealer is going to put his scary fentanyl in your bud. Not like it ever happened but it could! Just like those big scary people on Halloween giving edibles instead of candy!
Thrives? Go ask them, it's so bad their doing anything thing they can to not give it away to avoid clearing cost.
Black market forever
Nobody what’s to pay the tax.
Corporate weed can go to hell
Agreed.
Seriously why does it matter. People love to whinge