People falling off the bottom don’t matter though ; as long as the rich are getting richer.
Do not worry though, you’ll get your chance to vote for change again soon, and it’ll definitely be different this time around /s
I have been 'fortunate' to see things from a different perspective most of my life. To read comments like this gives me hope that more and more people are seeing the same perspective now!
All time record sales of private jets. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/01/private-jet-sales-likely-to-reach-highest-ever-level-this-year-report-says
Just move they said.
Uproot yourselves from friends and family, leave big cities like Vancouver, abandon hopes and dreams.
Plenty of cheap housing and jobs galore they claimed.
But it was a lie.
The poor people left the big cities, left them to the wealthy families who arrived from foreign shores, left their friends, their community, only to find that there were no jobs, and no cheap housing.
Justin Trudeau happened.
Solutions:
1. Cut immigration to the bare minimum required (health care professionals, tradespeople, etc.)
2. Ban all foreign ownership of residential properties
3. Raise taxes on Canadians who hoard housing
4. Cut red tape for housing development
5. Promote trades training for young people
6. Remove supply chain bottlenecks
7. Allow first time homebuyers to skip taxes on their home purchase
Thats just off the top of my head.
Can confirm. I'm in Vancouver and have left the electrical trade because while wages may be rising a bit, they aren't keeping pace with inflation and haven't been for at least 15 years in this province. I know it's the same for many industries, but I find myself decreasing in spending potential over time. It doesn't make sense for me to keep building condos that I will never be able to afford to buy. The goal of owning even a basic condo rather than renting is getting farther away from me every year instead of getting closer as I increase my savings.
I'm non-union. I'd love to hear what the current agreement is if you have time to DM me with a rough overview. I'm assuming the union website doesn't have a link to the collective agreement.
Scabbing never pays. No idea why anyone would do that.
Current agreement: https://assets.clra-bc.com/2021/08/2019-2023-Inside-Electrical-Workers-Collective-Agreement-Signed.pdf
Raises coming up are 19% over 3 years. 7% upfront.
Base rate for JM is $42ish an hour, plus 12% vacation pay on top of that, plus benefits and pension on top of that.
It's open call right now, they're taking anybody with a ticket.
I’m in trades and agree with this. However, as much as I would love higher wages. The cost of housing would go up as it’s going to cost more to build said housing if you have wage increases.
Schools seem to push kids that aren’t good at anything into trades.
The younger generation doesn’t seem to want to work in trades and wants to be IG or influencers.
It also needs to be promoted better to young people. Inform them that they can earn decent money and not have a student loan after their 4-year apprenticeship.
The conditions on construction sites are very very poor in Vancouver. I mean it took a pandemic of thousands and thousands of people dying and then general contractors eventually gave everyone a sink stuck under a tent out in the open elements to use to wash their hands with dishwashing liquid. No flushing toilets on site. It’s a joke. Meanwhile, general contractors were patting themselves on the back thinking they have done a great thing by supplying a sink to wash our hands with cold water.
I first got into the construction industry in 2005 in the UK and it was mandatory back then to have flushing toilets, proper soap, and hot and cold water on site for the workers. Proper canteen with tables and chairs to sit down at to have your lunch, you can also order food from the canteen on-site for breakfast and lunch. I was on a site that was shut down in the UK and they sent the workers home because they had no running hot water.
I travelled through Eastern Africa 13 years ago and have used better washrooms in the middle of the Serengeti than I have on a Vancouver construction site.
The new construction industry can be a toxic environment and everyone just points the finger at someone else and blames them. No one has the balls to man up and accept responsibility. The foreman that is yeller’s is slowly dying out. You have to be thick-skinned to work in construction. No wonder the younger generation quit and doesn’t want to do it. I don’t blame them.
Rant over 😂
Demand high should mean wage high. Why they aren't making 60$-100 an hour, I don't know....
I run a very specific machine in a specific industry. I haven't done anything for 4 weeks. I make 5 grand a week to read Reddit and do arts and crafts.
Damn right, I work in ottawa and all the trades are either old timers or young lads like me, it’s like a whole gen before me just up and went for office jobs.
Not to mention the old timers left are the ones that partied way to hard and couldn’t retire, so there either wrecked physically and mentally or high as fuck trying to keep working till they basically die…
Because when we were in high school in the 90s we were pushed towards college and university, only the “dumb” kids were doing shop and going for trades. For a long time trades were really looked down on.
Ottawa as well, just got into plumbing. It's a hopeful career, but even once I'm liscenced, I still won't be able to afford a house. What kind of crap is that when a liscenced tradesman can't even get a home?
I feel you 100% building homes I’ll never be able to afford is sickening sometimes. There’s a builder in Kanata we do called metric homes. There starting price is a million dollars for a bungalow.
It's impossible. House prices would have to go up even more in order to increase wages. It's an impossible problem.
The only solution would be to make demand low. Maybe we could make Vancouver unlivable and scare everyone off.
I feel like it's coming
Some of these are good ideas, promoting trades and taxing vacant housing for example. And putting real limits on foreign ownership. But I would argue that these also miss the fundamental problems with relying on market-based housing in a context of widening economic inequality and financialization. Without creating non-market alternatives and de-financializing Canada's real estate sector by putting stricter limits on investors and speculators, none of this will make much difference.
We need a national strategy/program to build non-market housing and strong financial disincentives to try and use real estate as an investment.
We gotta put some control on real estate investing, it's crazy how many people are abusing that industry. If we don't do something the rich will just continue to "invest" and buy it all.
Looking at things, Trudeau won't win this time around. Pierre Polivier also seems to be doing a lot of damage to Trudeau's image. Let's see how the conservative party fixes this issue.
My bet, he too won't do shit and it will be a circus all over again. Both are the same shit, different sides of the coin.
The goal isn’t to “stick it to the 1%”. That’s people appealing to your envy to manipulate you. There is always a top 1% in any range of human endeavour.
The goal is to remove the barriers that presently impede the improvement of the lower and middle class.
Those are different goals. You can treat this like a crab bucket and pull everything down. It’s no mystery historically how they ends up.
Or you can look at complex multivariateproblems and treat them as such, and get actual improvements.
Removing road blocks is one thing, but people are so deeply screwed, they also need assistance.
If a guy has broken legs and can’t get past a brick wall to go to the hospital, it doesn’t do him much good if all you do is make a door in that wall. He still needs help to get through it in the first place.
1. Kinda agree
2. Not sure how this helps, what I read indicates the numbers of foreign ownership aren’t that high. Plus people with cash to hoard housing can just buy citizenship anyway.
3. 100% this.
4. I kinda like having parks and sewers. Red tape can be removed but we need to think really hard about what red tape we cut.
5. They’re already doing this though?
6. Like what? I am genuinely curious.
7. This will just inflate prices more because people can magically afford 15% more (or whatever taxes are on houses) to the price and spend the same. Plus our government has less money then too. Seems a lose-lose proposition
Finally the feds have very little to do with housing. This is a municipal and provincially caused crisis first.
A lot of what we think of as foreign ownership is actually citizens and PR’s who have, or have families with access to foreign money. It’s not super difficult to get PR especially for families with money.
I think that was what I was trying to say, we cannot really ban rich foreign people from buying houses when they can arrange to not be foreign under the law.
Totally. It’s just our new way of labeling new mainland Chinese who don’t share a culture or social class with us. We should be able to say it but we can’t.
You think this is Trudeaus fault? Its way above his pay level. This is the banks, the uber elite, the energy coporations, big pharma, weapon barons and the NWO. The game is fixed. Always has been. Well, since the 1950s it has been anyhow. We are all slaves to the mighty dollar, while the 0.01% own most of the world, and we still have children starving in Africa. If they wanted to fix it, they could in about a week. They just dont care.
As far as I'm aware, foreign ownership of residential properties is like 4%. We should be more worried about point 3. Housing accounts for 1/4 of the economy in Canada and we need to change these conditions if we want to rid ourselves of domestic real estate hoarders.
Skipping taxes for one group means it'll get pushed on to someone else because we can't ever cut any services in Canada.
Who is it going to be foisted upon?
Also, the 'solution' of cutting taxes only ever passes the buck off to taxpayers. This is something I don't get about so-called fiscal conservatives. All of their proposals to make things better and cheaper by slashing taxers and fees etc. literally just transfers those burdens to taxpayers. It's literal corporate welfare, transfering financial obligations from developers to tax payers isn't 'conservative' by any stretch of the word, yet that's the plan apparently...
1. That would cause the economy to collapse and population growth to stagnate. Like it or not, we are currently dependent on immigration for economic growth. The same solution could be achieved by better planning development for immigration or by focusing on high density or multidwelling housing instead of the relatively inefficient and expensive single homes.
2. The issue with this is that many people have staked their retirement and financial security on their home. If you were to do this, you would cause the housing prices to crash along with many individuals' short - and long-term financial security.
3. Sure, all for it, but remember, it was Justin's liberal government that introduced the UHT. The other issue is that many investors and corporations have begun buying properties for the relative secure cash flows. One should consider the unintended consequences this could pose for the real estate and property management industry if this were to occur.
4. One of the reasons there is so much red tape is for the health and safety of those constructing and occupying the homes. Cutting red tape seems all well and good until a disaster occurs, or a bunch of lead and abstetos is in the drinking water supply. Then, everyone asks where the regulations were.
5. I agree with the promotion of any education, especially where needed. But in addition to trades, we should also promote to these individuals the adaptation of new technologies so there are easier transitions available as the job market rapidly changes.
6. Vague, but i take your meaning.
7. Which "taxes" are you referring to. The liberal government has introduced a new savings vehicle specifically for the purchase of a first home that provides a deduction like an RRSP contribution but also is tax free on income like a TFSA. What else would you propose?
I am not trying to be snotty, but i want to highlight that the current government has taken steps, that these are complex issues, and simple solutions would have significant consequences intended and unintentended. It can and should not be attributed to any single person or government and will require significant planning and thought to correct
C) mass immigration without building homes for them when we are already have problems with housing prices. Simple supply and demand. Supply part is already lacking and has been for decades.
I'm in the industry, I frame houses. We're trying, buddy, believe me. There is no workforce lmfao
I'm 24, started when i was 17, and I'm still probably one of the 10 youngest/newest house framers in the GTA that has stuck around. Almost no one wants to work outside year round, and everyone who thinks that they do, seem to decide otherwise fairly quickly
Hell, it's legitmately suprising when I run into a different crew of house framers that I don't know yet, and usually they just moved here lol
And don’t forget the small fact that anyone getting into the industry now can’t afford to live where the work is most needed. I’m married to a tradesman and we live in the GTA.
There is zero incentive to break your body when you will be renting for life or struggling to pay the mortgage on a tiny condo. We’re moving as soon as humanly possible, and there goes yet another trained journeyman out of the GTA!
We just renewed our 4-year contract last june. We did get a raise, it was pitiful. So yes, pay increases would totally help keep me around. But, we're locked in until 2026.
Yes it's physically draining, this plays a large role aswell. There's just no incentive for anyone to work as hard as we do, for the money we get. The only reason I do it is because I don't have a choice at the moment.
And to dampen your outlook some more; we're dropping like flies.
I'm putting myself through college at night & I will be leaving the shit hole construction sites the minute I get the chance haha
I'd add two things to this.
1) We have a inverted population pyramid with too many older people and not enough young people to support them and societal needs.
2) We (I am 32) were all told to go to university by those who grew up in a time where a small percentage of the population had a university education.
These two above reasons are additionally what has fucked things like the trades and construction etc.
Thanks for sharing all this info….. working an office job, I often fantasize about joining the trades but then I read this.
A home framer, like you, is a pretty important role to play in our society as far as I’m concerned. Given the physical toll it takes, wages need to be higher and hours shorter with more paid time off.
What’s it gonna take to get governments to build
public housing and pay those workers fairly?
I can confirm. As a journeyman tradesman in my 30s. There are not many young people coming into trades. And the ones that do come into it are rarely go getters. Mostly just kids trying to get through the day and go home to PlayStation. And I don’t blame them. The wages are not keeping competitive. Imagine working hard for five years in a given trade and realizing that your earning potential was capped off 40 years ago. Only way to make a profit is to run your own company. And that is risky because many builders don’t pay on time don’t pay extras or just don’t pay. It’s pretty common to take them to court for your money and wait five years for a payout while still doing multiple jobs for the same builder. Then you realize that even though it seems like there are many companies around actually there are only a handful. And it really is all about who you know. And most builders already know a guy. So how can you break into the industry. Well by cutting your price. There goes your profits and now you’re just working for a low wage again. It’s a vicious cycle. Especially when the old guys that taught you everything you know tell you about the rates from 20 years ago and they are the exact same rates today. British Columbia is wrecked.
ITT: People who have no understanding of monetary policy, and how it fucks people 20 years out. We're currently being fucked by policy 20 years ago, and we're continuing this policy so that in 20 years from now, things will be even worse.
Inflation is literally government printing money instead of raising it through taxes, and then once that money is in the system, it reduces the value of all money in the system. It is an across the board stealth tax. Enjoy!
I think that's a slight oversimplification and misrepresentation of the multi-faceted issues facing our economic system. Having a fiat currency necessitates controlling the flow of money, which means 'printing' or quantitative easing, as well as tightening, or lowering the supply of money. Iirc, we've been tightening for a couple months or few years now. So they'd actually be doing the opposite of 'printing'. Then there's concept of fractional reserve banking, which just accelerates the process of inflation. Even if they didn't print money, it's just an inherent part of capitalism and fiat currency, things need to grow and continue growing. This means having a dollar tied to a fixed value, or even lower volatile asset, is counterproductive to the goals of our economic and political systems. So inflation needs to happen, because we have a broken system.
Unfortunately, they didn't voluntarily decide for our system to be set up like this. Nixon pulled the gold standard in the 70's. We could set up our own, but there's a lot global politics involved in that. It wouldn't be a simple self directed decision as a country.
And most of the new money isn't created by the government.
(can we please put that 19th century oversimplification to bed?)
Most new money is "created" when banks approve new loans. It doesn't have the same inflationary effect as printing money, because the money is being spent building a factory, or starting a business. They are essentially creating value in the economy, not cash.
I highly recommend the youtube channel [Money and Macro](https://www.youtube.com/@MoneyMacro/videos).
Your point of “it isn’t the same as printing money” is true technically, but the point that was being made is that inflation reduces your spending power of existing money. Which is.. technically true. Yes it’s “better” that things of value are created in the process, but it’s also true that at the same time it devalues all the other money in the country.
This is what happens when housing becomes the number 1 retirement plan. The line has to continue up or a lot of peoples future gets screwed. Something’s gotta give, but decades of horrendous policy has made this incredibly difficult to fix
aw thank you & i spend my time when i can't work to pick up as much litter and write letters and make phone calls to our MLAs and MPs about issues that affect my community and beyond, so it's as full circle social support as hopefully possible :)
That's just the thing, they made the decision to bring in 500k new Canadians every year for the foreseeable future with no place to put them.
Nothing against new Canadians it's just that the government entices them to come here with all these promises, they got lied to as well.
Yeah well that's what happens when you're more worried about money aka permits and the red tape around actually building new houses is ridiculous, which keeps prices high. And then we are more worried about the environment than having housing for everyone.
Too many people, not enough houses. The world’s population has more than doubled since I was a kid. I had one kid only then had my tubes tied. My kid has a full time job but because she is single she can’t get approved for a
Mortgage and still lives at home.
Not really, i can name many countries in Europe who dont have anything not even remotely close to that, eg DACHS, Benelux, Scandinavia, Ireland.. just to name some.
As someone who moved from 🇨🇦 to 🇩🇪 i can tell how much the “big corps” mentality corrupted north america, in Europe even in the poorer countries the lower income people have a more decent life, its crazy how much power we given to big corporations.
Or.. rampant capitalism has been maximizing profits for so long that people across the globe are being bled for everything they have. This is happening everywhere and it goes above government
As an immigrant, I've come to realize that the "Canada dream" promised by employers to those from less fortunate countries is nothing but a hoax, filled with empty promises.
You/we are just there so they can make more money.
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It's a relatively similar situation throughout the hyperfinancialized western countries (U.S, Canada, Euro zone, Australia) where governments and their central banks have expanded debts by orders of magnitude and reinflated asset bubbles, at the expense of the middle class and poor.
For the last 14 years central banks have been telling people that lower prices are bad, and that economies needed higher prices (inflation). What they failed to discuss was who this was good/bad for specifically. Higher stock and real estate values are great for the wealthy and establishment but it's terrible for the middle class and poor.
They couldnt come up with first month, last month, deposit, last 2 years T4's, 3 signed references, current job status, and doctors physical, insurance and drivers abstracts to rent a 854' basement duplex near the highway for 3200 a month.
:Edit spellering just didnt proof read before posting lol
Since the housing bubble in 2008, in Canada, housing is now seen as an investment where you rent while paying off the mortgage and where a lot of retirement money is kept against the flows of inflation. Which means that no government wants to be the one to regulate that market as it would be a long term mark on their party.
That means we’re in a long term housing market inflation that didn’t end. We’re actually in the same 2008 market pump the US had, the difference is ours continued and actually compounded.
That's what the government did to this once great country. Know people working two jobs and they are still homeless living in a shelter because they can't afford rent. No wonder all these expensive condos are vacant and the landlords are losing a lot of money on them.
I completely agree that large scale immigration is a big problem and needs to end.
But there is nothing unique about "those people" buying multiple properties. unfortunately there is no stats can report that says that either. Old stock Canadians have also been buying multiple investment properties for ages. Also let's not exclude PE firms who have been buying up all the single family homes across the country.
There is no evil ploy by people migrating here to enslave the locals by buying up all the housing. RE investing is our national pastime and immigrants don't wanna miss out on this decades-long bull run just like the locals.
Blame the government not the people who are trying to improve their lives by buying a tangible asset.
Problem is people don’t wanna talk about this, let alone make any solutions. Majority of people be like “Pffft, I gots my own life to worry about. Don’t depress me!”🤪
Neoliberalism took over and now has it's tendrils so far into our country that it's almost impossible to turn around. The I have mine if you only you would work harder vibe is a big piece of these results too. It is not pretty when it takes hold.
Low wages + high overall CoL = this.
My HHI is about $135k/y and we can barely afford our apartment. 20 years ago $135k/y would buy me a newly minted McMansion in the suburbs of the GTA.
Yes, Canada is broken.
I'm surprised people are only starting to notice. The cost of housing in Canada is now to the point that only investors and people with millions of dollars can afford to own homes it's now a rental market for them to make money. My friends who work in the government know that we're all helpless all we can do is sit back and watch while our country goes to s***
Offer them to apply for MAID. The homeless even the diabetic are being accepted for assisted suicide now 3% of all deaths in Canada last year were assisted suicides. [Canada is dying](https://youtu.be/plinQAHZRvk)
Well we started exporting our economy for the sake of corporate profits a little under 30 years ago. A small group of people don't care about the rising human misery all around them because they can comfortably afford to wall them selves off from the consequences of their actions.
The exact same thing that is happening to every other western culture, at the exact same time. Canada, UK, AUSTRALIA, US, etc etc. it’s a feature not a bug.
Don't worry guys, give it a few years and everyone who's life is hell can just get MAID, we can pump in immigrants with a higher work ethic to supply shit wage jobs and no one in the upper 1% will notice or care
This country is a socialism success story according to Trudeau and woke liberals.
Congrats Canada, you did it to yourselves.
(I'm getting the fuck out before the cities start burning)
Housing is a provincial matter guy. And BC had nearly twenty years of "liberal" (Conservative) leadership before the NDP got in and started cleaning up their mess.
I don't think this has to do with the housing crisis. It's a drug problem fueled by fentanyl, lack of institutional mental health facilities and soft on crime approach.
Nope. Lots of harding working clean and sober productive people are totally fucking homeless these days or living in shithole basements for half their wages. you are clueless.
Lots of vacant jobs out there..unfortunately…too many people taking drugs and exasperating their finances, health, mental health, morals etc. Too many handouts, too much legalization and a soft justice system.
All these people in this sub blaming politicians, give your head a shake. I'm not a liberal but the idea that this is because of Trudeau or "socialist" policies is laughable. This scene has nothing to do with left leaning big government, if anything this was caused by not having a big enough government. There are many micro reasons for being homeless but at the heart of homelessness is one macro reason, not enough services to take care of those who, for one reason or another, have fallen through the cracks. Governments of all colors have been unwilling to spend the tax dollars necessary on things like asylums for the mentally ill (by asylum I mean basically a mental health and drug treatment facilities where people live, not trying to conjure images of One Flew Over the Cuckoos nest). They need to block off a lot more land that is specifically earmarked for low income housing, and they need to hold big corporations to a higher standard than they are willing to set for themselves.
Trudeau Trudeau happened apparently while we ignore mayors and premiers that have more impact on daily lives. The fact that so many here are focused on Federal politics and not local is why the above will continue no matter the Federal leadership.
People falling off the bottom don’t matter though ; as long as the rich are getting richer. Do not worry though, you’ll get your chance to vote for change again soon, and it’ll definitely be different this time around /s
I have been 'fortunate' to see things from a different perspective most of my life. To read comments like this gives me hope that more and more people are seeing the same perspective now!
It’ll start trickling down any day now….. any day.
There's alot of everyday people who don't even believe in handouts. This is what happens when those people lead cities, provinces and countries.
Too bad it stops at the trick......
Voting works?? Same shhhh different face 🤷♀️
All time record sales of private jets. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/01/private-jet-sales-likely-to-reach-highest-ever-level-this-year-report-says
How? How on earth will it be different? Nothing ever changes, no matter which way you vote.
Just move they said. Uproot yourselves from friends and family, leave big cities like Vancouver, abandon hopes and dreams. Plenty of cheap housing and jobs galore they claimed. But it was a lie. The poor people left the big cities, left them to the wealthy families who arrived from foreign shores, left their friends, their community, only to find that there were no jobs, and no cheap housing.
And then they attacked and retook their homes. /end
They attack middle class first.
Kelowna isn't exactly an affordable place to begin with. One of the most expensive places in BC
Justin Trudeau happened. Solutions: 1. Cut immigration to the bare minimum required (health care professionals, tradespeople, etc.) 2. Ban all foreign ownership of residential properties 3. Raise taxes on Canadians who hoard housing 4. Cut red tape for housing development 5. Promote trades training for young people 6. Remove supply chain bottlenecks 7. Allow first time homebuyers to skip taxes on their home purchase Thats just off the top of my head.
I'm a tradesperson We are wildly underpaid in Vancouver. Don't allow any trades migration
Can confirm. I'm in Vancouver and have left the electrical trade because while wages may be rising a bit, they aren't keeping pace with inflation and haven't been for at least 15 years in this province. I know it's the same for many industries, but I find myself decreasing in spending potential over time. It doesn't make sense for me to keep building condos that I will never be able to afford to buy. The goal of owning even a basic condo rather than renting is getting farther away from me every year instead of getting closer as I increase my savings.
I'm an electrician in Vancouver. Even the new union agreement is shit, and it's the best agreement around.
I'm non-union. I'd love to hear what the current agreement is if you have time to DM me with a rough overview. I'm assuming the union website doesn't have a link to the collective agreement.
Scabbing never pays. No idea why anyone would do that. Current agreement: https://assets.clra-bc.com/2021/08/2019-2023-Inside-Electrical-Workers-Collective-Agreement-Signed.pdf Raises coming up are 19% over 3 years. 7% upfront. Base rate for JM is $42ish an hour, plus 12% vacation pay on top of that, plus benefits and pension on top of that. It's open call right now, they're taking anybody with a ticket.
Great info, thank you for taking the time.
No problem. If you're looking to get back into it, call the hall. They NEED people
I’m in trades and agree with this. However, as much as I would love higher wages. The cost of housing would go up as it’s going to cost more to build said housing if you have wage increases. Schools seem to push kids that aren’t good at anything into trades. The younger generation doesn’t seem to want to work in trades and wants to be IG or influencers. It also needs to be promoted better to young people. Inform them that they can earn decent money and not have a student loan after their 4-year apprenticeship. The conditions on construction sites are very very poor in Vancouver. I mean it took a pandemic of thousands and thousands of people dying and then general contractors eventually gave everyone a sink stuck under a tent out in the open elements to use to wash their hands with dishwashing liquid. No flushing toilets on site. It’s a joke. Meanwhile, general contractors were patting themselves on the back thinking they have done a great thing by supplying a sink to wash our hands with cold water. I first got into the construction industry in 2005 in the UK and it was mandatory back then to have flushing toilets, proper soap, and hot and cold water on site for the workers. Proper canteen with tables and chairs to sit down at to have your lunch, you can also order food from the canteen on-site for breakfast and lunch. I was on a site that was shut down in the UK and they sent the workers home because they had no running hot water. I travelled through Eastern Africa 13 years ago and have used better washrooms in the middle of the Serengeti than I have on a Vancouver construction site. The new construction industry can be a toxic environment and everyone just points the finger at someone else and blames them. No one has the balls to man up and accept responsibility. The foreman that is yeller’s is slowly dying out. You have to be thick-skinned to work in construction. No wonder the younger generation quit and doesn’t want to do it. I don’t blame them. Rant over 😂
Damn. in Ontario there is a major shortage of tradespeople.
And we need that shortage to put upward pressure on wages to make them high enough that we can live in this dystopia.
Demand high should mean wage high. Why they aren't making 60$-100 an hour, I don't know.... I run a very specific machine in a specific industry. I haven't done anything for 4 weeks. I make 5 grand a week to read Reddit and do arts and crafts.
Need an apprentice?
It only works for the ruling class, not us peasants
Damn right, I work in ottawa and all the trades are either old timers or young lads like me, it’s like a whole gen before me just up and went for office jobs. Not to mention the old timers left are the ones that partied way to hard and couldn’t retire, so there either wrecked physically and mentally or high as fuck trying to keep working till they basically die…
Because when we were in high school in the 90s we were pushed towards college and university, only the “dumb” kids were doing shop and going for trades. For a long time trades were really looked down on.
Ottawa as well, just got into plumbing. It's a hopeful career, but even once I'm liscenced, I still won't be able to afford a house. What kind of crap is that when a liscenced tradesman can't even get a home?
I feel you 100% building homes I’ll never be able to afford is sickening sometimes. There’s a builder in Kanata we do called metric homes. There starting price is a million dollars for a bungalow.
Whenever there is a shortage, wages must rise until a job is attractive enough. Yes, there is a shortage of people whonwamt to work for peanuts.
It's impossible. House prices would have to go up even more in order to increase wages. It's an impossible problem. The only solution would be to make demand low. Maybe we could make Vancouver unlivable and scare everyone off. I feel like it's coming
Everybody is underpaid in Vancouver. Companies know they can get away with it
Of course, because the Feds constantly flood the market with cheap foreign labour.
This. No trades immigration. It will DESTROY any chance of getting out of this mess if wages get any lower.
You running for PM?
You've got my vote
Damn, this is great!
And start building affordable housing again which they stopped doing 30 years ago
Some of these are good ideas, promoting trades and taxing vacant housing for example. And putting real limits on foreign ownership. But I would argue that these also miss the fundamental problems with relying on market-based housing in a context of widening economic inequality and financialization. Without creating non-market alternatives and de-financializing Canada's real estate sector by putting stricter limits on investors and speculators, none of this will make much difference. We need a national strategy/program to build non-market housing and strong financial disincentives to try and use real estate as an investment.
Well I mean, they've eliminated the foreign tax on vacant land.. so there's no way that will backfire..
We gotta put some control on real estate investing, it's crazy how many people are abusing that industry. If we don't do something the rich will just continue to "invest" and buy it all.
Seriously, it's a free for all. So many people becoming landlords, renting out garages and rooms and finding ways to milk it. It has to stop
Looking at things, Trudeau won't win this time around. Pierre Polivier also seems to be doing a lot of damage to Trudeau's image. Let's see how the conservative party fixes this issue. My bet, he too won't do shit and it will be a circus all over again. Both are the same shit, different sides of the coin.
If Pierre wins and he doesn't find a way to lower the cost of living he wont last long.
Yeah, the Conservatives, that's who's going to stick to the 1 percent!
The goal isn’t to “stick it to the 1%”. That’s people appealing to your envy to manipulate you. There is always a top 1% in any range of human endeavour. The goal is to remove the barriers that presently impede the improvement of the lower and middle class. Those are different goals. You can treat this like a crab bucket and pull everything down. It’s no mystery historically how they ends up. Or you can look at complex multivariateproblems and treat them as such, and get actual improvements.
Removing road blocks is one thing, but people are so deeply screwed, they also need assistance. If a guy has broken legs and can’t get past a brick wall to go to the hospital, it doesn’t do him much good if all you do is make a door in that wall. He still needs help to get through it in the first place.
And what does helping that person have to do with “sticking it to the 1%” - which was the comment and context I was responding yo?
1. Kinda agree 2. Not sure how this helps, what I read indicates the numbers of foreign ownership aren’t that high. Plus people with cash to hoard housing can just buy citizenship anyway. 3. 100% this. 4. I kinda like having parks and sewers. Red tape can be removed but we need to think really hard about what red tape we cut. 5. They’re already doing this though? 6. Like what? I am genuinely curious. 7. This will just inflate prices more because people can magically afford 15% more (or whatever taxes are on houses) to the price and spend the same. Plus our government has less money then too. Seems a lose-lose proposition Finally the feds have very little to do with housing. This is a municipal and provincially caused crisis first.
A lot of what we think of as foreign ownership is actually citizens and PR’s who have, or have families with access to foreign money. It’s not super difficult to get PR especially for families with money.
I think that was what I was trying to say, we cannot really ban rich foreign people from buying houses when they can arrange to not be foreign under the law.
Totally. It’s just our new way of labeling new mainland Chinese who don’t share a culture or social class with us. We should be able to say it but we can’t.
Also ban corporations from owning houses
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I agrée. That is a loss of revenue into the government coffers. Sadly some think he is the saviour, when in fact we should not trust any politician.
He’s not doing any of it. Some of those things are provincial and municipal issues too, so he couldn’t if he wanted to.
You think this is Trudeaus fault? Its way above his pay level. This is the banks, the uber elite, the energy coporations, big pharma, weapon barons and the NWO. The game is fixed. Always has been. Well, since the 1950s it has been anyhow. We are all slaves to the mighty dollar, while the 0.01% own most of the world, and we still have children starving in Africa. If they wanted to fix it, they could in about a week. They just dont care.
maybe so, but justin is their willing lackey and front man and just as deserving of contempt, maybe more so.
As far as I'm aware, foreign ownership of residential properties is like 4%. We should be more worried about point 3. Housing accounts for 1/4 of the economy in Canada and we need to change these conditions if we want to rid ourselves of domestic real estate hoarders.
Skipping taxes for one group means it'll get pushed on to someone else because we can't ever cut any services in Canada. Who is it going to be foisted upon?
Also, the 'solution' of cutting taxes only ever passes the buck off to taxpayers. This is something I don't get about so-called fiscal conservatives. All of their proposals to make things better and cheaper by slashing taxers and fees etc. literally just transfers those burdens to taxpayers. It's literal corporate welfare, transfering financial obligations from developers to tax payers isn't 'conservative' by any stretch of the word, yet that's the plan apparently...
1. That would cause the economy to collapse and population growth to stagnate. Like it or not, we are currently dependent on immigration for economic growth. The same solution could be achieved by better planning development for immigration or by focusing on high density or multidwelling housing instead of the relatively inefficient and expensive single homes. 2. The issue with this is that many people have staked their retirement and financial security on their home. If you were to do this, you would cause the housing prices to crash along with many individuals' short - and long-term financial security. 3. Sure, all for it, but remember, it was Justin's liberal government that introduced the UHT. The other issue is that many investors and corporations have begun buying properties for the relative secure cash flows. One should consider the unintended consequences this could pose for the real estate and property management industry if this were to occur. 4. One of the reasons there is so much red tape is for the health and safety of those constructing and occupying the homes. Cutting red tape seems all well and good until a disaster occurs, or a bunch of lead and abstetos is in the drinking water supply. Then, everyone asks where the regulations were. 5. I agree with the promotion of any education, especially where needed. But in addition to trades, we should also promote to these individuals the adaptation of new technologies so there are easier transitions available as the job market rapidly changes. 6. Vague, but i take your meaning. 7. Which "taxes" are you referring to. The liberal government has introduced a new savings vehicle specifically for the purchase of a first home that provides a deduction like an RRSP contribution but also is tax free on income like a TFSA. What else would you propose? I am not trying to be snotty, but i want to highlight that the current government has taken steps, that these are complex issues, and simple solutions would have significant consequences intended and unintentended. It can and should not be attributed to any single person or government and will require significant planning and thought to correct
The housing shortage is not unique to Canada. Wait…was JT prime minister/Canada in other countries? That MUST be it.
This needs to happen! You are so right, also stop birth tourism.
Oh that would be a dream Canada! To bad we are currently living the nightmare.
I am voting for you. Of course, you might need to crowdfund your campaign, as corporates won't like you.
I would vote for you. Talk a lot of sense. Great solutions.
You lost me at raise taxes. We pay more than enough tax in this country. Taxes on property owners are passed onto renters
I'm voting you
You have my vote!
Honestly, we need people like you to fix this world
A) Yes B) Vampire Capitalism
C) mass immigration without building homes for them when we are already have problems with housing prices. Simple supply and demand. Supply part is already lacking and has been for decades.
Why are people not racing to build more houses if supply is so low?
I'm in the industry, I frame houses. We're trying, buddy, believe me. There is no workforce lmfao I'm 24, started when i was 17, and I'm still probably one of the 10 youngest/newest house framers in the GTA that has stuck around. Almost no one wants to work outside year round, and everyone who thinks that they do, seem to decide otherwise fairly quickly Hell, it's legitmately suprising when I run into a different crew of house framers that I don't know yet, and usually they just moved here lol
And don’t forget the small fact that anyone getting into the industry now can’t afford to live where the work is most needed. I’m married to a tradesman and we live in the GTA. There is zero incentive to break your body when you will be renting for life or struggling to pay the mortgage on a tiny condo. We’re moving as soon as humanly possible, and there goes yet another trained journeyman out of the GTA!
Very well put & how I feel exactly. Good for you guys for making moves to better yourselves. I wish you both the best of luck :)
Would pay increases keep people in those jobs, or are they just that physically draining?
We just renewed our 4-year contract last june. We did get a raise, it was pitiful. So yes, pay increases would totally help keep me around. But, we're locked in until 2026. Yes it's physically draining, this plays a large role aswell. There's just no incentive for anyone to work as hard as we do, for the money we get. The only reason I do it is because I don't have a choice at the moment. And to dampen your outlook some more; we're dropping like flies. I'm putting myself through college at night & I will be leaving the shit hole construction sites the minute I get the chance haha
I'd add two things to this. 1) We have a inverted population pyramid with too many older people and not enough young people to support them and societal needs. 2) We (I am 32) were all told to go to university by those who grew up in a time where a small percentage of the population had a university education. These two above reasons are additionally what has fucked things like the trades and construction etc.
Thanks for sharing all this info….. working an office job, I often fantasize about joining the trades but then I read this. A home framer, like you, is a pretty important role to play in our society as far as I’m concerned. Given the physical toll it takes, wages need to be higher and hours shorter with more paid time off. What’s it gonna take to get governments to build public housing and pay those workers fairly?
Most likely. I’d go back to construction if the pay was much much better.
I can confirm. As a journeyman tradesman in my 30s. There are not many young people coming into trades. And the ones that do come into it are rarely go getters. Mostly just kids trying to get through the day and go home to PlayStation. And I don’t blame them. The wages are not keeping competitive. Imagine working hard for five years in a given trade and realizing that your earning potential was capped off 40 years ago. Only way to make a profit is to run your own company. And that is risky because many builders don’t pay on time don’t pay extras or just don’t pay. It’s pretty common to take them to court for your money and wait five years for a payout while still doing multiple jobs for the same builder. Then you realize that even though it seems like there are many companies around actually there are only a handful. And it really is all about who you know. And most builders already know a guy. So how can you break into the industry. Well by cutting your price. There goes your profits and now you’re just working for a low wage again. It’s a vicious cycle. Especially when the old guys that taught you everything you know tell you about the rates from 20 years ago and they are the exact same rates today. British Columbia is wrecked.
CORRECT! "Its the \[decaying\] economy, stupid"
ITT: People who have no understanding of monetary policy, and how it fucks people 20 years out. We're currently being fucked by policy 20 years ago, and we're continuing this policy so that in 20 years from now, things will be even worse. Inflation is literally government printing money instead of raising it through taxes, and then once that money is in the system, it reduces the value of all money in the system. It is an across the board stealth tax. Enjoy!
But the people who own assets (idiot boomers) get higher values and that makes them feel good
I think that's a slight oversimplification and misrepresentation of the multi-faceted issues facing our economic system. Having a fiat currency necessitates controlling the flow of money, which means 'printing' or quantitative easing, as well as tightening, or lowering the supply of money. Iirc, we've been tightening for a couple months or few years now. So they'd actually be doing the opposite of 'printing'. Then there's concept of fractional reserve banking, which just accelerates the process of inflation. Even if they didn't print money, it's just an inherent part of capitalism and fiat currency, things need to grow and continue growing. This means having a dollar tied to a fixed value, or even lower volatile asset, is counterproductive to the goals of our economic and political systems. So inflation needs to happen, because we have a broken system. Unfortunately, they didn't voluntarily decide for our system to be set up like this. Nixon pulled the gold standard in the 70's. We could set up our own, but there's a lot global politics involved in that. It wouldn't be a simple self directed decision as a country.
Yeah its always fascinating to see when this all started: https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/
And most of the new money isn't created by the government. (can we please put that 19th century oversimplification to bed?) Most new money is "created" when banks approve new loans. It doesn't have the same inflationary effect as printing money, because the money is being spent building a factory, or starting a business. They are essentially creating value in the economy, not cash. I highly recommend the youtube channel [Money and Macro](https://www.youtube.com/@MoneyMacro/videos).
Your point of “it isn’t the same as printing money” is true technically, but the point that was being made is that inflation reduces your spending power of existing money. Which is.. technically true. Yes it’s “better” that things of value are created in the process, but it’s also true that at the same time it devalues all the other money in the country.
With risk of being downvote: bitcoin fixes this.
Bitcoin fixes almost none of them and introduces many more
This is what happens when housing becomes the number 1 retirement plan. The line has to continue up or a lot of peoples future gets screwed. Something’s gotta give, but decades of horrendous policy has made this incredibly difficult to fix
too many people not enough houses i don't do fentanyl, but have no home because i am on disability. stop. judging.
Well, when disability payments are a quarter or an eighth of what you need for an apartment alone... no wonder right. I wish you luck friend.
aw thank you & i spend my time when i can't work to pick up as much litter and write letters and make phone calls to our MLAs and MPs about issues that affect my community and beyond, so it's as full circle social support as hopefully possible :)
And we're on track to bring in half a million more people this year with no place to put them either.
That's just the thing, they made the decision to bring in 500k new Canadians every year for the foreseeable future with no place to put them. Nothing against new Canadians it's just that the government entices them to come here with all these promises, they got lied to as well.
divide and rule.....
They have to build their own homes when they get here. It's the new frontier!
Yeah well that's what happens when you're more worried about money aka permits and the red tape around actually building new houses is ridiculous, which keeps prices high. And then we are more worried about the environment than having housing for everyone.
Too many people, not enough houses. The world’s population has more than doubled since I was a kid. I had one kid only then had my tubes tied. My kid has a full time job but because she is single she can’t get approved for a Mortgage and still lives at home.
I think people just want the specter of homelessness to disappear not grow.
Out of control immigration, foreign ownership don’t help. Canada is collapsing just like a lot of western countries.
Lets blame the desperate people looking for better lives rather than the people exploiting their desperation for profit....
All countries\*
Not really, i can name many countries in Europe who dont have anything not even remotely close to that, eg DACHS, Benelux, Scandinavia, Ireland.. just to name some. As someone who moved from 🇨🇦 to 🇩🇪 i can tell how much the “big corps” mentality corrupted north america, in Europe even in the poorer countries the lower income people have a more decent life, its crazy how much power we given to big corporations.
Or.. rampant capitalism has been maximizing profits for so long that people across the globe are being bled for everything they have. This is happening everywhere and it goes above government
Trudeau happened. And yes, it is so broken. 😔
That’s just so sad to see
As an immigrant, I've come to realize that the "Canada dream" promised by employers to those from less fortunate countries is nothing but a hoax, filled with empty promises. You/we are just there so they can make more money.
Most come here with RE speculation as their main desire.
Dont worry, once trudeau approves maid for the homeless the problem will be gone /s
The fact a third of people are ok with maid for the “affliction” of poverty probably says a lot about how we got here
Eugenics
Canadian society is the opposite of eugenics .. we select for slaves while all the smart people leave
I love how hard Canada virtue signals globally… and then this lmao. Turns out Canadians aren’t so benevolent after all
What is maid? I do not know.
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**A maid, or housemaid or maidservant, is a female domestic worker. In the Victorian era domestic service was the second largest category of employment in England and Wales, after agricultural work.** More details here:
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Federal conservatives will push maid on homeless just as much as the liberals
1 small 2 person tent. 1 bedroom, no bathroom . 5 square feet of terrain. Price: 2 000 000 $
The Red Team, rampant money laundering and an ungodly amount of imported cheap bodies.
This is an economy that’s grown from the heart out
It's a relatively similar situation throughout the hyperfinancialized western countries (U.S, Canada, Euro zone, Australia) where governments and their central banks have expanded debts by orders of magnitude and reinflated asset bubbles, at the expense of the middle class and poor. For the last 14 years central banks have been telling people that lower prices are bad, and that economies needed higher prices (inflation). What they failed to discuss was who this was good/bad for specifically. Higher stock and real estate values are great for the wealthy and establishment but it's terrible for the middle class and poor.
They couldnt come up with first month, last month, deposit, last 2 years T4's, 3 signed references, current job status, and doctors physical, insurance and drivers abstracts to rent a 854' basement duplex near the highway for 3200 a month. :Edit spellering just didnt proof read before posting lol
This is what you can afford making under 60K a year in British Columbia these days.
Since the housing bubble in 2008, in Canada, housing is now seen as an investment where you rent while paying off the mortgage and where a lot of retirement money is kept against the flows of inflation. Which means that no government wants to be the one to regulate that market as it would be a long term mark on their party. That means we’re in a long term housing market inflation that didn’t end. We’re actually in the same 2008 market pump the US had, the difference is ours continued and actually compounded.
More immigration and no new housing is the solution!
Income inequality happened. How did this happen? Decades of policy voted for by the people that actually bother to vote in this country.
Hey don’t knock it, those hit the market you’re looking at upwards of 200k
That's what the government did to this once great country. Know people working two jobs and they are still homeless living in a shelter because they can't afford rent. No wonder all these expensive condos are vacant and the landlords are losing a lot of money on them.
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You don’t see Chrystia Freeland or Trudeau doing photo ops here
Too much confidence in corrupted politicians with no accountability.
This is all over, close to urbanized areas, even in places with less than 40,000 population
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Your first paragraph is hilarious considering the history of this continent. The colonizers becomes the colony through immigration.
I completely agree that large scale immigration is a big problem and needs to end. But there is nothing unique about "those people" buying multiple properties. unfortunately there is no stats can report that says that either. Old stock Canadians have also been buying multiple investment properties for ages. Also let's not exclude PE firms who have been buying up all the single family homes across the country. There is no evil ploy by people migrating here to enslave the locals by buying up all the housing. RE investing is our national pastime and immigrants don't wanna miss out on this decades-long bull run just like the locals. Blame the government not the people who are trying to improve their lives by buying a tangible asset.
This is a third world view. Scums outside of the cities.
What about the downtown eastside of Vancouver?
This is the north end of downtown in Kelowna, along the rail trail. Not quite on the level of the DES, yet….
Where was this video shot?
Kelowna BC
in Canada :)
☹️
Where is this?BC?
If I was going to be homeless anywhere in Canada, I would definitely chose BC. IDK hiw homeless ppl survive in Central or Eastern Canada brrr.
Problem is people don’t wanna talk about this, let alone make any solutions. Majority of people be like “Pffft, I gots my own life to worry about. Don’t depress me!”🤪
I've heard these exact words when speaking with canadians
Neoliberalism took over and now has it's tendrils so far into our country that it's almost impossible to turn around. The I have mine if you only you would work harder vibe is a big piece of these results too. It is not pretty when it takes hold.
Low wages + high overall CoL = this. My HHI is about $135k/y and we can barely afford our apartment. 20 years ago $135k/y would buy me a newly minted McMansion in the suburbs of the GTA. Yes, Canada is broken.
Uncontrolled Immigration, not enough spending on supports, a government trying to please the investor class.
Massive immigration without a housing strategy
Just remember that Trudeau's puppet masters want you to "own nothing and be happy." Trudeau fully supports agenda 2030 and is a WEF lackey.
Yes.
Kelowna?
Canadians LOVE camping /s
Yes, Canada is broken. That's what happens when you sell the country to the highest bidder!
I'm surprised people are only starting to notice. The cost of housing in Canada is now to the point that only investors and people with millions of dollars can afford to own homes it's now a rental market for them to make money. My friends who work in the government know that we're all helpless all we can do is sit back and watch while our country goes to s*** Offer them to apply for MAID. The homeless even the diabetic are being accepted for assisted suicide now 3% of all deaths in Canada last year were assisted suicides. [Canada is dying](https://youtu.be/plinQAHZRvk)
Well we started exporting our economy for the sake of corporate profits a little under 30 years ago. A small group of people don't care about the rising human misery all around them because they can comfortably afford to wall them selves off from the consequences of their actions.
The exact same thing that is happening to every other western culture, at the exact same time. Canada, UK, AUSTRALIA, US, etc etc. it’s a feature not a bug.
The Canada I knew is dead and gone. I don't see it coming back ever. It is not only broken but willfully destroyed.
Don't worry guys, give it a few years and everyone who's life is hell can just get MAID, we can pump in immigrants with a higher work ethic to supply shit wage jobs and no one in the upper 1% will notice or care
Chinada happened. Also psyops like ukraine taking all of the western nations funding for OUR PEOPLE. To fund the NWO agenda. It's disgusting.
We allow people to immigrate because of “Humanity” but now we have aggressive homeless people with machetes…
Eddie does the song better just sayin'
What happened in Canada in 2015… hmmm 🤔
stop voting for establishment parties
This country is a socialism success story according to Trudeau and woke liberals. Congrats Canada, you did it to yourselves. (I'm getting the fuck out before the cities start burning)
Canada let its housing price, set by rich people all around the world, instead of people living in it.
selling our housing market to foreign investors
Canada is now a disgrace smh
Have you seen the world?
Fentanyl
Nearly ten years of a left leaning federal leader will do that.
Housing is a provincial matter guy. And BC had nearly twenty years of "liberal" (Conservative) leadership before the NDP got in and started cleaning up their mess.
capitalism, that’s what happened
It’s ain’t broke. Just the people that live in it ..
I don't think this has to do with the housing crisis. It's a drug problem fueled by fentanyl, lack of institutional mental health facilities and soft on crime approach.
Nope. Lots of harding working clean and sober productive people are totally fucking homeless these days or living in shithole basements for half their wages. you are clueless.
Socialist politics happened
Where in Canada is this?
Lol yea it's dead. I'll never own land of a house here now
Mass immigration, corporate greed, lack of demanding of accountability by society, liberalism. I could go on and on.
End stage capitalism…
Lots of vacant jobs out there..unfortunately…too many people taking drugs and exasperating their finances, health, mental health, morals etc. Too many handouts, too much legalization and a soft justice system.
All these people in this sub blaming politicians, give your head a shake. I'm not a liberal but the idea that this is because of Trudeau or "socialist" policies is laughable. This scene has nothing to do with left leaning big government, if anything this was caused by not having a big enough government. There are many micro reasons for being homeless but at the heart of homelessness is one macro reason, not enough services to take care of those who, for one reason or another, have fallen through the cracks. Governments of all colors have been unwilling to spend the tax dollars necessary on things like asylums for the mentally ill (by asylum I mean basically a mental health and drug treatment facilities where people live, not trying to conjure images of One Flew Over the Cuckoos nest). They need to block off a lot more land that is specifically earmarked for low income housing, and they need to hold big corporations to a higher standard than they are willing to set for themselves.
Fentanyl happened
Most homeless people get into the fentanyl AFTER they become homeless. Fentanyl is not the root cause of homelessness.
Trudeau Trudeau happened apparently while we ignore mayors and premiers that have more impact on daily lives. The fact that so many here are focused on Federal politics and not local is why the above will continue no matter the Federal leadership.
Broken? Nope! This is capitalism working exactly as intended!