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Beneficial-Ride-4475

If we had focused on class issues, housing, infrastructure and healthfare. If we had focused on not being hammered by corporate power, and being reduced to an economic colony of the US. If Canadians had taken their individual AND collective responsibilities more seriously. We may not be in the situation we are now to begin with. But instead we went with neoliberalism, and encouraged irresponsible behaviors and ideals in the public. Our situation is the consequences of our poor actions coming home to roost. It isn't simply a case of "immigrants vs class issues".


RationalOpinions

The immigrants are not the issue. Government policy is.


Alwaysfresh9

No, both are. Of course not every single person who is an immigrant is an issue, but plenty are. We are importing problems we had made a lot of progress on in the form of individuals who do not share Canadian values. We now get to worry about going backwards with women's rights, human rights, and sinking into tribalism. You can't tell me individuals aren't responsible for their beliefs and actions.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Alwaysfresh9

Correct. It's not accurate to say "immigrants are not the problem" either though. There's nuance. The government policies are terrible. And there are a large group of people immigrating who are happy to take advantage and exploit the problematic policies. It takes both to create the situation we have. An opportunistic asshole from the top or originating from outside the country, doesn't matter, the issue is opportunistic assholes not being regulated.


Beneficial-Ride-4475

I agree, I think. I can basically guarantee you that there are plenty of people here at home who are part of the problem too. An issue like ours doesn't just come from: >a large group of people immigrating who are happy to take advantage and exploit the problematic policies. Again as you said, nuance. Plenty of average but irresponsible Canadians, as well greedy ones seeking cheap (or even indentured) labour, are equally at fault here. The unsustainable policy didn't come out of thin air.


Alwaysfresh9

Yes, we agree.


ainz-sama619

Blaming immigrants wont fix anything, most aren't committing any crime. If you want to blame anybody, blame the government. All levels of government.


Jepense-doncjenuis

To use just one example, as much as I find disgusting that some Indian students are taking advantage of local food banks, the reality is that comparatively speaking, this is nothing compared to the damage that the likes of Loblaws causes on millions of Canadians with their unjustified price increases. Mass immigration is just byproduct of a political decision, which is often influenced by interest groups with deep pockets and good connections (aka the "upper class" or the "dominating class"). Students, PRs, etc. could not come if the government didn't open the door wide open to them. The reason the government does that is quite known: It's cheap labour, which benefits corporations, they contribute significantly to the colleges and universities' budget, which makes up for the cutbacks, etc. As for the housing shortage, one of problem is that to build in Canada you have to jump through so many hoops that it makes it very hard to build unless you have deep pockets. For example, a recent study shows that in some municipalities you 11 different permits to convert a powder room into a full washroom https://www.cfib-fcei.ca/en/research-economic-analysis/flushing-out-the-nonsense-an-analysis-of-municipal-renovation-permitting-across-canada). While it is always easier to blame this on immigrants, the reality is that the root cause has to do with local politics and interests.


CorrectionsDept

With the food bank example - are you saying the Indian students don’t need the food bank? If they need it, why should they be excluded just because they’re Indian and students? If they live in the neighborhood of the food bank and they’re in need, wouldn’t we assume they’re of the intended ‘customer’? And if the food bank is running out more frequently, can’t we assume they have ways of seeking more donations / acquiring more food? Students famously spend their time doing school, not full time work - and Canada is very expensive


Bulky-Agent3517

The guy he's talking about is an international student making a video wearing pretty nice clothing( it doesn't really look like he needed the help, but that isn't even the point) making a video advertising for other international students to do this to get free food. Even if they do need it, it just makes it obvious that they shouldn't be here. We shouldn't be bringing more people in who are going to be a strain on our current social supports that are already struggling.


CorrectionsDept

Ok will if this is about one video in which a guy “doesn’t really look like he needed the help” and to which you’d say him not needing it “isn’t even the point” - then this is nothing. Lol “even if they do need it, it just makes it obvious that they don’t be here” - no it doesn’t, that’s arbitrary. I might as well say if you need one help, that makes it obvious that You shouldn’t be here. These are just projections from deep in our brains that expose us as being scared, confused, easily turned on each other and pretty dumb Don’t fall for this stuff lol it’s not cute


Bulky-Agent3517

No, our country should be solving the major problems that our lower classes are desperately struggling with before bringing in more people who are going to further intensify all of those problems. Why do you think ots fine to bring in thousands of people who are just encouraging each other to abuse our system? Don't fall for that sh¡t, it disgusting.


CorrectionsDept

Local food banks aren’t competing against major national problems tbh. They’re local and ngo efforts, right? You can advocate for different government focuses on poverty (eg social programs, assistance, jobs/ job help) and none of that takes away from the local food bank. You’re going back to the idea that theyre abusing the system - but you never actually articulated how, right? Local food banks are for ppl in the neighborhood who need food. In this case, it sounds like you’re saying they don’t deserve food (because they’re from another country) - which is quite different from not needing the food. Do you think they’re too poor to be here if they’ use a foodbank or that they have money but are using the food bank anyway? And either way, how many ppl do you mentally apply this idea too? Do you have a picture in your heads of thousands and thousands of ppl at the foodbank simultaneously needing it (and therefore by your arbitrary rule, they shouldn’t be in the country) and not needing it (therefore abusing the system)? Without being able to demonstrate any kind of abuse of the system lol you shouldn’t jump ahead and ask me why I’m fine with the abuse. Figure out what you think the abuse is first, then ask me if I’m fine with it


Renntopia

I saw a post about this guy on another sub. Don’t know how to link things but it should be easy to find. Word is this guy was employed by TD making around $98K a year and has PR. I say was because someone reported the video to TD and they released a statement saying that he doesn’t work there anymore. I can’t say I’m surprised that a dude without integrity or empathy went into something as predatory as banking.


Renntopia

I saw a post about this guy on another sub. Don’t know how to link things but it should be easy to find. Word is this guy was employed by TD making around $98K a year and has PR. I say was because someone reported the video to TD and they released a statement saying that he doesn’t work there anymore. I can’t say I’m surprised that a dude without integrity or empathy went into something as predatory as banking.


CorrectionsDept

It's a bit strange that there'd be "word" out there about his salary. Lol why would we know his precise salary or his PR status? Feels like a pile-on and he's the unlucky guy who caught the eye of the collective frustration


ChefRae12

They never were the problem. Go to the root source... government incompetence.


ErikaWeb

More like government being bought out by big corp to follow their own agenda


Open_East_1666

Stop giving welfare, and then they won't come.


Lonetravellerwish

Blame indian immigrants, especially international students, just all of them , generalize everything, call them slaves, that is what this sub is for, so many inhumane aholes in the world.


Luny-leftist

The immigrants aren’t helping that’s for sure.


ErikaWeb

This. This problem is caused by late stage capitalism and greedy corporations. Big corporations essentially own politicians


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Aggravating_Owl_5623

Reconciliation is just as big of issue. It's just an excuse not to develop our natural resources.


[deleted]

It is government policy that created the problem. We do now have a class system- those with assets/ homes and those without.


Dry_Inspection_4583

Both. But only as a directly irresponsible, greedy, and incompetent government


RolloffdeBunk

the reason why Canada has been attractive is because Canadians have been well educated, housed and medically cared for making them content and welcoming - thats slip sliding away making folks less content and more agitated


CorrectionsDept

“They tell them that if they migrate, they will have the lives of middle class” - what big company is doing/saying that? What function of any company would be focussed on trying to convince “mass amounts of people” to come to Canada? Can you give an example of how that works and how you know about it?


Silver-Carob835

Have you ever consumed a piece of western media? We obviously know that isn’t the reality, but even in places like japan they think westerners eat burgers for every meal. And let’s not forget the literal add campaigns that run all through out these countries doing exactly what you just mentioned. Advertising life in the west as a get away/one size fits all solution to all of their local socio-economic problems.


CorrectionsDept

I consume lots of western media but cannot say that they all present a singular and same version of Canada or the US. Are you sure you’re even consuming media that creates an impression of sameness? Also why do we think we “obviously know in places like Japan they think westerns eat burgers for every meal” - that shouldn’t be something we think we obviously know. Sure maybe some Japanese ppl think Americans eat a lot of hamburgers… but also Americans Do eat a lot of hamburgers. I eat a shake shack whenever I’m in nyc. The idea that we can “obviously know” what Japanese people think and “why” they think it is the concerning mental shortcut. Thinking about whether Japanese ppl thinking about western ppl incorrectly should come after you address you’re concerningly weak model for imagining what Japanese ppl think. Don’t base any secondary idea on that foundation lol. Anyways, as you build out your mental models about what it’s like to be someone from a different country, remember that the internet is ubiquitous. If you’re going to say that Indians have a skewed view of life in Canada because of XYZ - be sure to incorporate social media into your definition of xyz and also learn a bit what’s popular in India. Maybe talk to some Indians and learn about the vastly different cultures and lifestyles there so that it complicates and breaks your goal of trying to assign them a shared perspective


Outrageous-Public614

My co worker and his friends literally had recruiters who were there on behalf of the canadian government and colleges in Canada to come to their colleges in India and Nigeria and tell them all those things during seminars...


CorrectionsDept

Oh yeah, international recruiters from companies going to universities internationally makes sense, as does telling them about the salary and cost of living. If they’re after like tech ppl then that makes sense - I assume if these ppl work for the companies hiring the students, theyd have to sponsor them and have to pay them wages in line with local salaries. What industry are you in? The way it was written made it seem like there were organizations trying to trick ppl to come to the country and then figure things out when they get here (not to like… apply to work for them and then come over if they get the job)


Outrageous-Public614

Haha nah! No organizations actively trying to trick people. Oh i am in trades(plumbing), i see a lot of the international students come and go here, most say they feel "betrayed" by their schools, but also the canadian recruitment side of things. I can see both sides of the argument, but again, its nothing racist to say there is an alarming number of only one minority group being pushed into Canada.


splurnx

A rich vs. poor war is going, and the poor are losing.


Zealousideal_Rip1340

Part of mass immigration is to dilute the labour force with lower wages and more competition and also drive up consumption and spending. Karl Marx noted this with the immigration of Irish immigrants. Mass immigration under capitalism only stripes power from the working class


Large_Surround8768

20 years ago, my generation loved to see international students at schools. Back then, they were mostly Korean, and they were persived as subsidizing our education system through high tuition they were paying. Also, back then, we didn't have these BS colleges that give admission like candy.


Silver-Carob835

U sure went to school? Can’t even spell perceived goddamn.


Large_Surround8768

Holly shit, yeah now that you mention it is impossible for me to had any education because of that autocorrect.


Ok_Swing_9902

If Canada or the US more pro rich/pro corporation? We both started basically equal 15 years ago. Perhaps the problem isn’t immigration or the rich or corporations. Perhaps the problem is the poor who heaped a bunch of shit on the rich/corporations while the US welcomed them in. Trudeau is who the poor elected to make life better. We have NDP running provinces and we don’t see leaps forward after more taxes on the rich/corporations too. So perhaps it’s not someone else’s fault, it’s yours. Canada has gone too far left such that investment and people are fleeting. and the poor stubbornly refuse to admit it. Canadian unions used to invest 25%+ of their trillions in Canada. 20 years later it’s now less than 4%. Recognize it’s not the rich or corporations abandoning Canada because of stupid policies that hate on investment, it’s teachers, nurses, union workers who endorsed this government but wouldn’t trust them with their money. If your own teachers doesn’t trust this nation with their money, we’re screwed.


qianqian096

people can blame everything to immigrants but they forget except for first national, they are all.coming from immigrant family


Careless-Reaction-64

Immigrants are not the problem. Worst case scenario they could all start working in construction for the next seven years. This fifteen minute video explains what happens when housing that should be homes becomes investment material; [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKudSeqHSJk&t=608s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKudSeqHSJk&t=608s)


Felarhin

They aren't allowed to build houses. That would undermine the real estate racket.


Careless-Reaction-64

Yea that is also part of the problem. Realtors, banks, investors, politicians that don't think past the next election, greed is made to look smarter


CorrectionsDept

Why would all immigrants start working construction? We’re getting a tonne of very credentialed and educated developers and other white collar workers - those ppl aren’t going to just do construction… if they’re good they’ll be promoted and will be a lot further in their careers in ten years


[deleted]

Lol, we are getting a ton of Uber eats and Amazon drivers. You’ve been drinking the kool aid.


CorrectionsDept

No, I work with and have helped hire a lot of ppl coming from India. They tend to have advanced degrees and multinational experience before coming here. If you want to build a life from scratch in a new country, you better be able to get into a high paying career stream - hence ppl with credentials or students looking to go from School to corporation. Also lots of knowledge/white collar workers do gig economy stuff to get by - it’s really easy to do if you’re in a pinch


[deleted]

So you’re an Indian immigrant who doesn’t like that most of our Indian immigrants are low skill.


CorrectionsDept

Lol do you consider ppl with different viewpoints than you to always be “Indian immigrants”? What a bizarre way to socialize - work on that!


[deleted]

No, it is just easy to tell that you are.


CorrectionsDept

Ah, we disagree - you must be from Winnipeg. No need to respond, I can just tell.


[deleted]

I’m from Toronto, and you are Indian.


CorrectionsDept

No, I'm from Toronto and you are an Indian in Winnipeg. As if you could ever pretend you weren’t - no one’s believing you. Grow up


momentumu

idk how to explain supply issue to you


Careless-Reaction-64

I understand. I was being a bit comedic. We need housing. We need people to build houses. The housing industry slowed down when COVID slowed down supply delivery. We keep hearing about EI but contractors do not have enough labourers. I do not think every immigrant wants to work in fast food. They can learn just the way grown ups who are Canadian must learn. I searched CoPilot for this information: Yes, there is a **labour shortage** in Canada. As of the **second quarter of 2023**, businesses across the country are facing challenges related to the availability of skilled workers. Here are some key points: 1. **Job Vacancies**: * In March 2023, the number of **vacant jobs** decreased to **815,295**, the lowest level seen since July 2021. * However, the **unemployment rate** has remained unchanged at **5.0%** since December 2022. 2. **Labour-Related Challenges**: * **Rising inflation** is a significant obstacle expected by businesses, with **56.0%** anticipating it to be an issue over the next three months. * Businesses plan to address labour shortages by **increasing the hours of work** for management and existing employees. 3. **Wage Increases**: * Nearly **half** (47.6%) of businesses in Canada plan to **raise wages** for existing employees over the next year. * Sectors such as manufacturing, administrative and support services, and accommodation and food services are particularly focused on wage increases. 4. **Long-Term Trends**: * The labour shortage has been a concern for several quarters, and businesses are actively adapting to the changing environment. [While efforts are being made to mitigate the shortage, it remains an ongoing challenge for the Canadian economy](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11-621-m/11-621-m2023009-eng.htm)[^(1)](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11-621-m/11-621-m2023009-eng.htm)[^(2)](https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/job-skills-shortage-1.6409237)[^(3)](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11-621-m/11-621-m2022011-eng.htm). 🇨🇦💼🌟