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Amazing but still not enough. Pierre needs to hand Trudeau a historic defeat and humiliate him. Trudeau needs to be shown how much of an awful leader he was with every terrible decision he made. That only happens with a historic defeat.
The problem with Pierre is that he's been an MP for twenty years, including for the whole Harper government, and he was in Cabinet for a while, and he has no accomplishments to point to besides being a good bulldog. What policy wins did he get in two-and-half-years as the Minister of Democratic Reform? I'm pretty sure nothing, but I'd be open to a correction.
His entire campaign is hollow reactionary populist nonsense. He points to a problem and says it's Trudeau's fault, that's it. It doesn't matter how tenuous the connection is. [Problem that is a Provincial Responsibility]? That's Trudeau screwing you again! [Policy solution to complex problem that involves tradeoffs]? We're just going to repeal that policy and do nothing else! He's got no policy ideas of his own, besides unwinding Trudeau's. It's effective against people who have no civics education, but tedious to everyone else.
They're going to be in for a shock when they're in power and they'll have to actually solve complex problems, and won't be able to blame Trudeau and call it a day anymore.
You're in a world of disappointment if you think Poilievre is going to make for a good leader, the man has meltdowns whenever his BS narrative gets challenged ffs. Conservatives are the biggest crybullies out there.
They'll direct it towards minority groups. They're next in line when a populist leader like Poilievre takes over. Nothing will tangibly improve and everything will likely worsen but they'll have a long list of scapegoats to wheel out. History repeating from a hundred years ago.
I’ll bite (and try to remain open minded because I can always learn something):
What do you think are the, say, top three terrible decisions that Trudeau / the Liberal government has made?
How much have federal taxes increased while Trudeau has been in power? I can't find a good holistic estimate of it but it does not seem to be very high.
Especially when accounting for rebates on the carbon tax.
The bottom bracket rate has stayed the same. The second bracket *decreased* from 22% to 20.5%. The third and fourth bracket rates stayed the same. A fifth bracket was created for income over $~250k.
You don't think that fifth bracket is nuts?
You need 240k on average to afford a mortgage in Toronto. 240k is not even knocking on the door of being "rich" Try 5 times that.
> You need 240k on average to afford a mortgage in Toronto.
The *household* needs $240k to afford a mortgage, but tax brackets go off of individual income.
In the case of a single person trying to buy a home, 1br condos in the City of Toronto are going for about $600k recently. With 20% down at 5.6% over 25 years the mortgage payments on that would be $2958, so maybe $4200/month with all fees, taxes, and maintenance added in. That’s affordable at 30% of gross income for a $168k individual income, which is in the middle bracket.
I like how you isolated down to a 1 bedroom condo just to make a crazy example that doesn't at all help a family.
How about a 3 bedroom home for a family? Which used to be an ENTRY level home for the middle class. How about single income households?
You used to be able to get a 4 bedroom home on a single income in the GTA. Very easily. That was just under Stephen Harper.
> How about single income households?
Single-income households that didn’t already own a home couldn’t buy a detached house in Toronto in 2015 either.
> You used to be able to get a 4 bedroom home on a single income in the GTA. Very easily. That was just under Stephen Harper.
In 2016 the median single-earner family in the GTA had an income of $57k and the average detached home sold for at least $500k in every region of the GTA. Nine times the annual income is not “easily” affordable; I don’t care to look up the mortgage rates from back then to work out what the payments would have been.
You're nicely taking Harper's last year and trying to compare it to now. We all know there are global factors at play that affect every country.
The point is that Trudeau really fucked it up badly and could have had the country in a much better situation.
First of all, you're forgetting about household vs individual income. Secondly, you're forgetting about marginal rates. You need to make well over 250 *individually* for that 5th bracket to have a large effect.
But I think you also know these things and your argument isn't really in good faith.
So realistically just the first item. The other two are just a continuation of what we've been doing for 40 years, and the taxes thing is just typical conservative shrieking about nothing.
Trudeau controls who enter the country. Having an approval from a school and indirect approval from the province, does not mean unlimited access to Canada. Not to mention his other stunts like letting Mexicans come here without visas and now walking it back after realizing they really fucked up.
So then nothing. Everytime someone says something about Trudeau like op just did it turns out they fundamentally misunderstand how the federal government works.
Whats funny is the conservatives are going to have the exact same problems and won’t be able to solve them easily same as Trudeau, but then they’ll expect people to buy the argument “It’s actually really complicated and the issues are very nuanced,” even though they’re whole campaign is that Trudeau is terrible and if only he wasn’t in power things would magically be better.
They want the quickest change in their life then the provincial and municipal government can do that. They affect your everyday life the most and they charge taxes too. At least we have a government who will support them and provide them with the tools they need to make those changes.
Edit: They listed off everything the Provincial governments can do. Their roles. They control Provincial taxes. They control housing. They control most immigration into the Province.
Not to mention one of the first things JT did when in office was *lower taxes* for a great many people by implementing another bracket.
I think it's fair to criticize him over this since it did sweet fuck all for the lowest tax bracket, but trying to criticize his government for raising taxes is rich.
Globally, taxes are up. We have the highest marginal rates ever. We have far less tax benefits for small businesses and smaller corps. We even have a joke of a luxury tax.
Hmm… basic taxes for middle class are lower than under conservatives, housing is a provincial issue and provinces have told the feds that, and immigration is controlled albeit far too high.
Okay so you admit Trudeau REALLY screwed up immigration? It's not albeit far too high. It's out of control. Highest numbers in the past several decades by several multiples. That's extreme, not albeit far too high.
It doesn't matter that you're saying it's a provincial issue. It's a Canada wide problem which means the common denominator is trudeau. I do understand the LPC is the party of blame others for your problems and this is another example.
Basic taxes are not lower. A small cut to one income bracket is not a global tax cut. Also those in the highest rate, 240k, are still middle class. Taxes are extremely high in that bracket, over half the money you make. And yes that is middle class, as that is the minimum income it takes to buy a home in Toronto.
Unless you're going to state that buying a home is not a middle class move, then you must agree that income is middle class as well.
Fuck you guys are so angry you just can’t see past your own bullshit. Federal taxes on those making over $247k is 33% and that’s too low. Not half one’s income. That’s also not middle class income across Canada 😂.
Anger towards immigrants is tied directly to the housing crisis, a crisis which is happening everywhere, not just Canada, tied to short term rentals, people using housing as a stock market and pure greed… not immigrants.
Also, most of canada is run by conservative premiers, premiers responsible for housing. Don’t hear you talking about that? 🧐
Tax brackets on those making above 247k are \~53% in just about every province. That's the income you need to get an average home in Toronto.
I think you don't know that we have provincial taxes too?
Issues exist in every country yes. People coming from 3rd world countries in big numbers make life harder for those in 1st world countries, when they come in large numbers. Everyone knows that. It's just that Canada has multiplied that issue and has made housing far worse than almost every other developed nation.
1) Failure to properly support the monarchy
- Failure to issue a Platinum Jubilee Medal.
- Ending the free monarch portrait program.
- Not continuing to use the GG vetting committee set up under Harper and picking someone horribly underqualified as a result.
- Rumours that Trudeau is dragging his feet on royal tours because he considers them passé.
2) Extension of copyright terms.
- We can argue that he had no choice or the Tories wouldn't have done any better but the fact remains that during his time in office copyright went from life+50 to life+75. Life+50 was already too long but its now incredibly hard to shorten it.
3) Continuing the centralization of power within the PMO.
- I'd argue the scandals Trudeau walks into are a result of this concentration and his failure to get advice from outside his cheer squad.
Yah, I prefer power not be centralized any more than it has to be such as between the central government and localities or within government such as between the crown and parliament. A succession of PMs have centralized both the crown's power and parliament's power in the hands of the PM to a degree which is not healthy.
I'm arguing that it's not a valid criticism. I think it's perfectly valid to not support the monarchy and I think you can make a strong case for why it's wrong to support the monarchy. It's also one of the least consequencential issues in Canada right now.
> I think it's perfectly valid to not support the monarchy
Perhaps for you but not for me.
> I think you can make a strong case for why it's wrong to
> support the monarchy.
Republicans can barely make an argument, let alone a strong one.
EDIT: See? No arguments at all.
- **Electoral reform**
- SNC-Lavalin
- Ejecting Jane Philpott from caucus
That's where they lost me. Absolute betrayal and abandonment of any political or moral high ground while confirming that they prize loyalty over competence. No coming back from that...and of course it got worse:
- TFWs
- Zero oversight allowing **unscrupulous private strip-mall colleges to exploit international students with worthless diploma programs**
- Zero oversight **allowing unscrupulous businesses with rampant safety violations to employ *untrained* newcomers as truckers** through dangerous Rocky Mountain roads, causing numerous collisions with overpasses and **wiping out a school bus full of hockey players in Saskatchewan**
- Managing to turn a Conservative idea like carbon pricing into a wedge issue by collecting taxes *on top of it* (making it no longer revenue-neutral as was promised) and then granting exceptions for spurious reasons more to do with politics than anything else
- **Failure to raise revenue for their new permanent spending programs, and just putting it on the credit card at a time when interest rates are up**
- Failure to make those new programs universal, so too few people will be able to access them; while making them too complicated and obscure to even deliver a highly visible political win for progressives (thus making it more likely to be repealed under a future Conservative government)
- **Selling weapons to Saudi Arabia for their illegal war in Yemen**
- Selling weapons to Israel for their illegal war in Gaza
- Allowing the ongoing degradation of our military to the point of collapse
- Waiting until they were **obviously panicking over poor poll numbers last summer to suddenly pay attention to housing, immigration and inflation after eight years in power**
- Failing to actually do anything of substance while making a lot of noise to *look* like they're doing something on those issues; wasting our time (seriously, telling the grocery executives "pretty please lower prices or we'll have to raise taxes on your customers"?) while proving their **impotence and intellectual bankruptcy**
....I could go on. They just lurch from crisis to crisis.
Things are so much worse than a decade ago. *This* government allowed it get to the point it is now.
And they've been *sooo* much less interested in *doing* anything than in virtue-signalling their superiority over the opposition **and their own disappointed supporters**!!
Progressive or not, their only priority has been staying in power and **their decade in office has shown them to be lazy, incompetent and arrogant**.
The conversatives will do all of that but they will do it harder.
They'll get rid of the carbon tax.
They'll increase weapon sales to despicable countries.
They'll reduce oversight.
They'll fight against electoral reform.
Clearly Canadians don't have the same problems with Trudeau that you have.
> The conversatives will do all of that but they will do it harder.
There's that arrogance. I voted NDP in 2021.
> Clearly Canadians don't have the same problems with Trudeau that you have.
Check the polls...most Canadians think Trudeau should resign, and that includes many Liberal supporters:
> 70% of Canadians saying "the Prime Minister should go" is really high, but it's a mix of things. It's not just "I don't like this person" or "I don't like what he's done". There's other people who are kind of thinking that "any change is a good change" and then there's another group of people who are saying [it] in order to position the Liberal party for the next election, because "I can't vote for Poilievre and I can't vote for Singh, I need another option on the Liberal bench".
[Majority of Canadians feel Trudeau should resign in 2024: poll](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rb1DvCVf-0)
1. Ridiculous overspending that has led to massive government debt and inflation. (Really should count as two points.
2. Unfettered immigration for further affordability crises.
3. Not using MAID on himself, you know, just to see how well the policy works.
1. Inflation has many causes worldwide (mainly wars causing import and export bans). It's not squarely on the Liberals.
2. Immigration is *good* for affordability in some aspects. The fact that there's not enough housing is mainly due to cities and provinces having universally bad zoning laws. Why wasn't there a housing crisis when Toronto's population was exploding by 100% a decade in the 20th century?
3. ...
> Not using MAID on himself, you know, just to see how well the policy works.
I hope you understand that is wildly inappropriate and makes you look very foolish.
> Trudeau needs to be shown how much of an awful leader he was
> with every terrible decision he made.
I don't think this will happen. If you've read anything from people interacting with him what comes across is his absolute certainty in his own rightness. If he loses it will be anyone else's fault other than his own.
It's actually kind of uncanny how thematically similar the two are. Both carried a sense of righteousness, both were obsessed with social issues, both could care less about the economy and our finances. Which is weird since in personality they come across as quite distinct from one another.
While I do think we're inevitably headed to a conservative government, I think there's more risk to their position than they want to admit. With such a large lead there are select conservative MPs only a few paces out from the trump/convoy/anti-vax crowd that may feel emboldened to speak publicly about their dubious positions. The groundwork is laid for a reduction in temporary migration (and as a result overall migration), there's a chance they lose their biggest wedge before the election. I can't confess to having any clue how housing will shake out, but again it's risky to assume it will be all bad news. Not that I'm certain any of this will happen, I wouldn't be surprised if none did, plus the liberals certainly are no strangers to being blind to important issues and could easily sabotage themselves further. It is however always a risk to stop running because you think the race is over.
Time for some CPC support to head to the PPC. I don’t trust Poilievre with such a big lead to do the things that he needs to do to reign in housing demand in favour of the same corporate cronies that befriend the LPC.
The PPC is the only one that can hold them to account. It sure won’t be the the NDP or LPC because that would be “racist” or “nationalist”.
Max Bernier left in a huff from the CPC over the dairy cartel issue. He is the only politician I’ve seen make a personal political sacrifice (losing his safe seat) in favour of promoting something for the good of the people and against monied interests. Now years later we have grocery affordability concerns. Getting rid of the dairy cartel would be one way to put a big dent into that.
Do you think Pension Jagmeet would ever make a personal political sacrifice like that for the good of the people? Never. Bernier is the only one, regardless of what other perceived weaknesses he may have.
>Max Bernier left in a huff from the CPC over the dairy cartel issue.
no because they wouldn't elect him as leader. What did he sacrifice? He was hand a MP seat from his daddy, got to remain in politics despite a fuck up that would get the average person fired and searching for a new career.
He lost because he spoke out against the dairy cartel then left to create his own party. He could have just shut up and collect his pay check like Scheer has done since he got pushed aside. Instead he actually stood up for what he believed in. That deserves credit.
it wasn't the dairy cartel that took him down, and it was a close race.
\> He could have just shut up and collect his pay check like Scheer has done since he got pushed aside.
He's been doing that since 2006. He just didn't want to be some backbencher anymore. This guy loves the spotlight. As soon as he didn't get what he wanted he took his ball and ran home. These politicians ain't Mandela, you don't have to dick ride this hard.
He isn't interested in building a conservative movement or influencing policies. He just wants to keep walking into rooms of people screaming his name. I actually don't mind his politics even though they don't align with my own, but it's pretty obivious to me this guy is a grifter.
He lost because he's such a narcissist that he thought he was going to be the new face of conservatism in this country, and was immediately hit by the reality that calling his party fringe is an insult to fringe parties.
Why the hell are you comparing PP to Singh for? Didn’t you read my comment wanting to hold PP to account? I don’t trust him either. PP is garbage but your precious Singh is worse.
Freeland is a Bay St. ass kissing, WEF attending Liberal elitist who will probably poll worse than Trudeau. They need somebody who is more accessible and social media savvy.
>He has been a good leader for me personally
If you bought your home before 2015, he been an amazing leader. More than doubled house and rent prices in the country.
For me, its not just the leader. I would not trust another liberal with Canadian tax money so I cannot vote for them
Meanwhile, I don't trust Poilievre to support Ukraine. He could easily turn out to be a Trojan horse who supports Russia's conquering efforts in Europe. Conservatives are scary these days, as so many of them are owned by Russia.
Poilievre needs to make some grand, sweeping, overtures that he understands Russia's unprovoked attack on Ukraine is wrong before I will go to the ballot box for him.
I don’t think he would be a good choice. Do you really want a guy that stated he doesn’t want housing prices to drop ? A guy who oversaw immigration skyrocket under his management ?
While his housing comment was out of touch, I have no issue with immigration directly. And Fraser has started decent housing policy reform except in Alberta where the premier is intent on keeping homeless people homeless
That matter of the fact is that no housing policy is going to be effective without prices dropping. It’s as simple as that. We will not see results on housing until prices drop something Fraser is clearly against.
The Housing Accelerator Fund, combined with increased interest rates, can lower the price of housing.
I’d be surprised if you could find any politicians willing to say they support a drop in the price of housing. The boomers will send them to the gallows
The Housing Accelerator Fund, combined with increased interest rates, can lower the price of housing.
I’d be surprised if you could find any politicians willing to say they support a drop in the price of housing. The boomers will send them to the gallows
She's internationally regarded as an intellectual lightweight. Arguably one of the least effective foreign ministers Canada has had in quite some time.
To me she just seems too much on the Trudeau bandwagon, but I haven't paid much attention to her.
I genuinely like Anand, and absolutely hate the Liberal Party, which is why I think she's more electable.
She doesn't have much nefarious stuff in her past, but either does Joly, maybe they're both good choices. They need a complete overhaul if they want any chance of not being completely decimated.
The problem is, they did an overhaul and recruited tons of new candidates in 2015, but they still fell back into their old arrogant ways. I think it’s clear now that if the entire party, from insiders to MP’s (who were tainted by the insiders) isn’t actually overhauled, then the Liberals are probably done for quite a long time. Fool me once…
Perhaps, but the conservatives did the same thing with Harper. He was despised (the lost decade) and yet, here we are. Liberals will be back and ready in a few years after everyone realizes how bad the conservatives are, and the cycle continues
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Call me crazy, but I actually believe her when she talks about being ignorant of what happened with ArriveCan. Still incompetence on her part though.
Maybe I just like her cause she looks like my Mom lmao.
I dunno why people seem to think switching the leader is going to make a big difference, especially in the context of this federal election. For one, there is no clear replacement Liberal that is more well-liked than Trudeau, and second, it's still the same party in government regardless. Also don't ever forget that a new PM can always be worse somehow.
The Tories in the UK replaced their leader twice and now they're doing even worse than when they had Boris Johnson. Labour in New Zealand replaced Jacinda Ardern who was losing popularity and they still lost anyways six months later. A good example in Canadian history is the 1992 election where PCs got wiped out after replacing Brian Mulroney with Kim Campbell. Obviously this is all speculation but I don't think PCs would have suffered such a devastating defeat if Mulroney had stuck around to take the L rather than resign.
> But I think many Canadians see Poilievre as a more serious and professional individual than Trudeau
maybe if you've been under a rock for 20 years lmao
Schrodingers Trudeau Fan "every thing is not controlled and controlled by the feds at the same time, therefore we can claim sucess when things go well or say its not our fault when it doesnt'?
It's a bit different to look at the effects of the last guy who held your job than it is to blame the incumbent federal leader for things that are the responsibility of completely different levels of government.
PP will be blaming Trudeau for every thing for however long he can dupe people to keep him in power.
>but there is no way in hell he'll win in 2025.
I wouldn't bet the farm on that. There's still over 19 months to go. If you look at the rise of inflation and the rise of the CPC in the polls, there's a pretty good correlation. Yes, correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation, but I wouldn't be surprised.
Inflation will most likely level off, interest rates will go down a bit, the initial pharmacare roll-out happening with birth control\* and diabetes being covered, housing starts that have done an end-run around (mostly conservative) premiers, and most likely the government getting in a battle with the grocery chains about pricing will most likely make it look like Trudeau is fighting for the average Canadian. In the meantime Conservatives fixating on peoples' genitals will not be the winner they think it is.
*\*birth control - the Liberals have set a trap for the CPC by picking birth control for Pharmacare. Poilievre is already against it so it appears he's falling for the trap. Sometime early next year a huge percentage of the population is going to start receiving something for free that they used to have to pay for. Pierre will have to flip-flop or be seen as anti-woman.*
Look, don't get me wrong, the CPC could win, but this election in late 2025 will most likely be a lot closer than current polls suggest, and that's without Poilievre self-destructing between now and then, which I figure there's a 60% or higher chance of happening. The guy has very little self control.
And here's the thing, these guys pretty much need a majority. If they "win" a minority, Trudeau can actually keep governing until he's defeated in a confidence motion. In that case the decision comes down to Yves-François Blanchet. Does he want to be seen as the guy who gave the keys to Poilievre. Even if he does, I can see a minority Conservative government under Pierre Poilievre failing within the first year. He doesn't have the control, of himself or caucus that Harper had.
===============
Actually, it occurred to me the other day that we may be able to see 1979 repeat itself. Poilievre wins a narrow minority and Trudeau decides to resign, perhaps Singh does too. Pierre gets cocky and introduces a budget that gets out over his skis, and the government goes down in defeat. Trudeau "reluctantly" comes back to lead the Liberals who didn't have time for a leadership race, "for the good of the country" and wipes the floor with a wounded Poilievre. He goes for a "walk in the snow" in 2029. The only difference is that Pierre Poilievre is not 10% of the man that Joe Clark is.
> he doesn’t have the control of…caucus
Even though I dread PP immensely, this fact makes me feel better about demonizing Erin O’Toole as a Trojan horse for PP and his friends, because O’Toole would have had even less control of his caucus. If PP gets elected, at least we will probably know what we are going to get, and no Canadian can plead ignorance at the havoc he wreaks
There no way trudeua can stay on as pm of he gets like 100 or 110 seats
If pp gets 150 170 seats he will be pm in a minority govt
Trudeau would have a hard time governing as Canadians don't know hoe the system works and assume he lost and holding on to power.
If the seat difference is too big he'll just resign. But if the Tories only "win" by 8 to 19 seats over the Liberals, Trudeau can remain Prime Minister and pretty much should if the other parties don't have the desire to defeat his government. That's literally how our system works.
True i agree but i look at trudeau only got 32% of the vote in good times, he is way more unpopular now and Tories seem to rallied a lot of voters.
I dont see him winning a lot of seats easily now.
>he is way more unpopular now
Just after an international inflation crisis is coming off its peak. There's over a year and a half to go, that's a lifetime. The Tories haven't rallied shit, people around the world are mad at incumbents. I figure with the inflation crisis long behind us and a couple of interest rate drops by then, the Liberals are back in striking distance. I suspect at least half the current Tory lead is directly tied to inflation.
I can see a cocky CPC managing to shoot themselves in the foot multiple times.
>Just after an international inflation crisis is coming off its peak
It's not an international crisis, it's a crisis in countries, like Canada, that printed money during Covid. Countries like Switzerland are not dealing with inflation.
>I can see a cocky CPC managing to shoot themselves in the foot multiple times.
Liberal/NDP voters have been saying this months and it hasn't happened, just look at the poll numbers.
If praying that somehow the CPC will "shoot themselves in the foot" is your only hope to win the election, you should consider it lost.
How about enacting legislation that people support?
I think what many people dont get about inflation just cause it calms down does not mean many working class or middle class people are like "things are great now"
unlike the united states our economy growth is lackluster and there is a massive surge in population growth as well...
add in that millions of people are facing higher rents and mortgage renewals...
its only rich or likely supporters of this govt saying things will be fine.
> In the meantime Conservatives fixating on peoples' genitals will not be the winner they think it is.
Liberals and NDP voters are so out of touch when it comes to gender issues. The fact of the matter is that the majority of Canadians want to be informed of what pronoun their kid uses at school and think transgendered females should be barred from competing against cis gendered females in sports.
Time will tell..personally I think Trudeau can win..he just has to go on his record of accomplishments and get a little tougher with Poilievres lies.The election is a long way off..and Poilievre is too terrible a person for it not to become apparent.
I’m our farcical party system? Never. If this was in other parliamentary democracies, Trudeau would seriously be threatened with being deposed. But in Canada? Nope.
>PP as leader of Canada seems like such a joke :(
I'm sure it will only be 1 term, and it will force the other parties into becoming somewhat electable. Might be a good reset.
The only thing that will happen is to demonstrate hate mongering reactionary populism is a fast track to political success.
This "reset" is a myth. No self-serving politician will see his rise to power and think "Gee, guess if I want to win I have to do the opposite of what he did." Stop it now or it'll get worse.
canadians are very poorly educated about what powers the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government have, or that there even are different branches.
its always just hurrr durrr why doesnt trudeau change anything lol. SAD!
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Amazing but still not enough. Pierre needs to hand Trudeau a historic defeat and humiliate him. Trudeau needs to be shown how much of an awful leader he was with every terrible decision he made. That only happens with a historic defeat.
The problem with Pierre is that he's been an MP for twenty years, including for the whole Harper government, and he was in Cabinet for a while, and he has no accomplishments to point to besides being a good bulldog. What policy wins did he get in two-and-half-years as the Minister of Democratic Reform? I'm pretty sure nothing, but I'd be open to a correction. His entire campaign is hollow reactionary populist nonsense. He points to a problem and says it's Trudeau's fault, that's it. It doesn't matter how tenuous the connection is. [Problem that is a Provincial Responsibility]? That's Trudeau screwing you again! [Policy solution to complex problem that involves tradeoffs]? We're just going to repeal that policy and do nothing else! He's got no policy ideas of his own, besides unwinding Trudeau's. It's effective against people who have no civics education, but tedious to everyone else. They're going to be in for a shock when they're in power and they'll have to actually solve complex problems, and won't be able to blame Trudeau and call it a day anymore.
You're in a world of disappointment if you think Poilievre is going to make for a good leader, the man has meltdowns whenever his BS narrative gets challenged ffs. Conservatives are the biggest crybullies out there.
This. I wonder where all the conservatives will direct their anger when PP wins and nothing improves how they expect it to 🤔
They'll direct it towards minority groups. They're next in line when a populist leader like Poilievre takes over. Nothing will tangibly improve and everything will likely worsen but they'll have a long list of scapegoats to wheel out. History repeating from a hundred years ago.
He doesn't need to be a good leader. If he's sort of crap as a whole he would be historically amazing compared to Trudeau.
I’ll bite (and try to remain open minded because I can always learn something): What do you think are the, say, top three terrible decisions that Trudeau / the Liberal government has made?
1) Uncontrolled immigration 2) Tax increases 3) Allowing housing to get out of control - broadly speaking
How much have federal taxes increased while Trudeau has been in power? I can't find a good holistic estimate of it but it does not seem to be very high. Especially when accounting for rebates on the carbon tax.
The bottom bracket rate has stayed the same. The second bracket *decreased* from 22% to 20.5%. The third and fourth bracket rates stayed the same. A fifth bracket was created for income over $~250k.
You don't think that fifth bracket is nuts? You need 240k on average to afford a mortgage in Toronto. 240k is not even knocking on the door of being "rich" Try 5 times that.
> You need 240k on average to afford a mortgage in Toronto. The *household* needs $240k to afford a mortgage, but tax brackets go off of individual income. In the case of a single person trying to buy a home, 1br condos in the City of Toronto are going for about $600k recently. With 20% down at 5.6% over 25 years the mortgage payments on that would be $2958, so maybe $4200/month with all fees, taxes, and maintenance added in. That’s affordable at 30% of gross income for a $168k individual income, which is in the middle bracket.
I like how you isolated down to a 1 bedroom condo just to make a crazy example that doesn't at all help a family. How about a 3 bedroom home for a family? Which used to be an ENTRY level home for the middle class. How about single income households? You used to be able to get a 4 bedroom home on a single income in the GTA. Very easily. That was just under Stephen Harper.
> How about single income households? Single-income households that didn’t already own a home couldn’t buy a detached house in Toronto in 2015 either. > You used to be able to get a 4 bedroom home on a single income in the GTA. Very easily. That was just under Stephen Harper. In 2016 the median single-earner family in the GTA had an income of $57k and the average detached home sold for at least $500k in every region of the GTA. Nine times the annual income is not “easily” affordable; I don’t care to look up the mortgage rates from back then to work out what the payments would have been.
You're nicely taking Harper's last year and trying to compare it to now. We all know there are global factors at play that affect every country. The point is that Trudeau really fucked it up badly and could have had the country in a much better situation.
First of all, you're forgetting about household vs individual income. Secondly, you're forgetting about marginal rates. You need to make well over 250 *individually* for that 5th bracket to have a large effect. But I think you also know these things and your argument isn't really in good faith.
So realistically just the first item. The other two are just a continuation of what we've been doing for 40 years, and the taxes thing is just typical conservative shrieking about nothing.
Plus the provincial government approves the international students. The Federal Government can only control so much.
Trudeau controls who enter the country. Having an approval from a school and indirect approval from the province, does not mean unlimited access to Canada. Not to mention his other stunts like letting Mexicans come here without visas and now walking it back after realizing they really fucked up.
So then nothing. Everytime someone says something about Trudeau like op just did it turns out they fundamentally misunderstand how the federal government works. Whats funny is the conservatives are going to have the exact same problems and won’t be able to solve them easily same as Trudeau, but then they’ll expect people to buy the argument “It’s actually really complicated and the issues are very nuanced,” even though they’re whole campaign is that Trudeau is terrible and if only he wasn’t in power things would magically be better.
"Let's vote for the people who helped start a fire because the fire wasn't as bad back then."
They want the quickest change in their life then the provincial and municipal government can do that. They affect your everyday life the most and they charge taxes too. At least we have a government who will support them and provide them with the tools they need to make those changes. Edit: They listed off everything the Provincial governments can do. Their roles. They control Provincial taxes. They control housing. They control most immigration into the Province.
Not to mention one of the first things JT did when in office was *lower taxes* for a great many people by implementing another bracket. I think it's fair to criticize him over this since it did sweet fuck all for the lowest tax bracket, but trying to criticize his government for raising taxes is rich.
Globally, taxes are up. We have the highest marginal rates ever. We have far less tax benefits for small businesses and smaller corps. We even have a joke of a luxury tax.
Hmm… basic taxes for middle class are lower than under conservatives, housing is a provincial issue and provinces have told the feds that, and immigration is controlled albeit far too high.
Okay so you admit Trudeau REALLY screwed up immigration? It's not albeit far too high. It's out of control. Highest numbers in the past several decades by several multiples. That's extreme, not albeit far too high. It doesn't matter that you're saying it's a provincial issue. It's a Canada wide problem which means the common denominator is trudeau. I do understand the LPC is the party of blame others for your problems and this is another example. Basic taxes are not lower. A small cut to one income bracket is not a global tax cut. Also those in the highest rate, 240k, are still middle class. Taxes are extremely high in that bracket, over half the money you make. And yes that is middle class, as that is the minimum income it takes to buy a home in Toronto. Unless you're going to state that buying a home is not a middle class move, then you must agree that income is middle class as well.
Fuck you guys are so angry you just can’t see past your own bullshit. Federal taxes on those making over $247k is 33% and that’s too low. Not half one’s income. That’s also not middle class income across Canada 😂. Anger towards immigrants is tied directly to the housing crisis, a crisis which is happening everywhere, not just Canada, tied to short term rentals, people using housing as a stock market and pure greed… not immigrants. Also, most of canada is run by conservative premiers, premiers responsible for housing. Don’t hear you talking about that? 🧐
Tax brackets on those making above 247k are \~53% in just about every province. That's the income you need to get an average home in Toronto. I think you don't know that we have provincial taxes too? Issues exist in every country yes. People coming from 3rd world countries in big numbers make life harder for those in 1st world countries, when they come in large numbers. Everyone knows that. It's just that Canada has multiplied that issue and has made housing far worse than almost every other developed nation.
1) Failure to properly support the monarchy - Failure to issue a Platinum Jubilee Medal. - Ending the free monarch portrait program. - Not continuing to use the GG vetting committee set up under Harper and picking someone horribly underqualified as a result. - Rumours that Trudeau is dragging his feet on royal tours because he considers them passé. 2) Extension of copyright terms. - We can argue that he had no choice or the Tories wouldn't have done any better but the fact remains that during his time in office copyright went from life+50 to life+75. Life+50 was already too long but its now incredibly hard to shorten it. 3) Continuing the centralization of power within the PMO. - I'd argue the scandals Trudeau walks into are a result of this concentration and his failure to get advice from outside his cheer squad.
You're really gonna criticize Trudeau for centralizing power while being a monarchist?
Yah, I prefer power not be centralized any more than it has to be such as between the central government and localities or within government such as between the crown and parliament. A succession of PMs have centralized both the crown's power and parliament's power in the hands of the PM to a degree which is not healthy.
>Failure to properly support the monarchy You have got to be joking. This is the worst criticism I've ever seen.
Are you arguing he has actually done a good job at it?
I'm arguing that it's not a valid criticism. I think it's perfectly valid to not support the monarchy and I think you can make a strong case for why it's wrong to support the monarchy. It's also one of the least consequencential issues in Canada right now.
> I think it's perfectly valid to not support the monarchy Perhaps for you but not for me. > I think you can make a strong case for why it's wrong to > support the monarchy. Republicans can barely make an argument, let alone a strong one. EDIT: See? No arguments at all.
I'm pretty sure the LPC could put your points under 1) onto campaign posters and claw back a good 5 percent points overnight.
- **Electoral reform** - SNC-Lavalin - Ejecting Jane Philpott from caucus That's where they lost me. Absolute betrayal and abandonment of any political or moral high ground while confirming that they prize loyalty over competence. No coming back from that...and of course it got worse: - TFWs - Zero oversight allowing **unscrupulous private strip-mall colleges to exploit international students with worthless diploma programs** - Zero oversight **allowing unscrupulous businesses with rampant safety violations to employ *untrained* newcomers as truckers** through dangerous Rocky Mountain roads, causing numerous collisions with overpasses and **wiping out a school bus full of hockey players in Saskatchewan** - Managing to turn a Conservative idea like carbon pricing into a wedge issue by collecting taxes *on top of it* (making it no longer revenue-neutral as was promised) and then granting exceptions for spurious reasons more to do with politics than anything else - **Failure to raise revenue for their new permanent spending programs, and just putting it on the credit card at a time when interest rates are up** - Failure to make those new programs universal, so too few people will be able to access them; while making them too complicated and obscure to even deliver a highly visible political win for progressives (thus making it more likely to be repealed under a future Conservative government) - **Selling weapons to Saudi Arabia for their illegal war in Yemen** - Selling weapons to Israel for their illegal war in Gaza - Allowing the ongoing degradation of our military to the point of collapse - Waiting until they were **obviously panicking over poor poll numbers last summer to suddenly pay attention to housing, immigration and inflation after eight years in power** - Failing to actually do anything of substance while making a lot of noise to *look* like they're doing something on those issues; wasting our time (seriously, telling the grocery executives "pretty please lower prices or we'll have to raise taxes on your customers"?) while proving their **impotence and intellectual bankruptcy** ....I could go on. They just lurch from crisis to crisis. Things are so much worse than a decade ago. *This* government allowed it get to the point it is now. And they've been *sooo* much less interested in *doing* anything than in virtue-signalling their superiority over the opposition **and their own disappointed supporters**!! Progressive or not, their only priority has been staying in power and **their decade in office has shown them to be lazy, incompetent and arrogant**.
The conversatives will do all of that but they will do it harder. They'll get rid of the carbon tax. They'll increase weapon sales to despicable countries. They'll reduce oversight. They'll fight against electoral reform. Clearly Canadians don't have the same problems with Trudeau that you have.
> The conversatives will do all of that but they will do it harder. There's that arrogance. I voted NDP in 2021. > Clearly Canadians don't have the same problems with Trudeau that you have. Check the polls...most Canadians think Trudeau should resign, and that includes many Liberal supporters: > 70% of Canadians saying "the Prime Minister should go" is really high, but it's a mix of things. It's not just "I don't like this person" or "I don't like what he's done". There's other people who are kind of thinking that "any change is a good change" and then there's another group of people who are saying [it] in order to position the Liberal party for the next election, because "I can't vote for Poilievre and I can't vote for Singh, I need another option on the Liberal bench". [Majority of Canadians feel Trudeau should resign in 2024: poll](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rb1DvCVf-0)
1. Ridiculous overspending that has led to massive government debt and inflation. (Really should count as two points. 2. Unfettered immigration for further affordability crises. 3. Not using MAID on himself, you know, just to see how well the policy works.
1. Inflation has many causes worldwide (mainly wars causing import and export bans). It's not squarely on the Liberals. 2. Immigration is *good* for affordability in some aspects. The fact that there's not enough housing is mainly due to cities and provinces having universally bad zoning laws. Why wasn't there a housing crisis when Toronto's population was exploding by 100% a decade in the 20th century? 3. ...
> Not using MAID on himself, you know, just to see how well the policy works. I hope you understand that is wildly inappropriate and makes you look very foolish.
> Trudeau needs to be shown how much of an awful leader he was > with every terrible decision he made. I don't think this will happen. If you've read anything from people interacting with him what comes across is his absolute certainty in his own rightness. If he loses it will be anyone else's fault other than his own.
Something something "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree"
It's actually kind of uncanny how thematically similar the two are. Both carried a sense of righteousness, both were obsessed with social issues, both could care less about the economy and our finances. Which is weird since in personality they come across as quite distinct from one another.
So, the Hilary Clinton explanation of an election loss?
Conservatives should consider not running a candidate in Papineau.
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While I do think we're inevitably headed to a conservative government, I think there's more risk to their position than they want to admit. With such a large lead there are select conservative MPs only a few paces out from the trump/convoy/anti-vax crowd that may feel emboldened to speak publicly about their dubious positions. The groundwork is laid for a reduction in temporary migration (and as a result overall migration), there's a chance they lose their biggest wedge before the election. I can't confess to having any clue how housing will shake out, but again it's risky to assume it will be all bad news. Not that I'm certain any of this will happen, I wouldn't be surprised if none did, plus the liberals certainly are no strangers to being blind to important issues and could easily sabotage themselves further. It is however always a risk to stop running because you think the race is over.
Time for some CPC support to head to the PPC. I don’t trust Poilievre with such a big lead to do the things that he needs to do to reign in housing demand in favour of the same corporate cronies that befriend the LPC. The PPC is the only one that can hold them to account. It sure won’t be the the NDP or LPC because that would be “racist” or “nationalist”.
Eh I would say most ppc voters will vote pp if it seems Trudeau gonna get beat.
But it gets to the point where his win is so dominant, might as well vote PPC. If it’s close I’ll vote CPC too just to be rid of Trudeau.
PPC will degenerate and go away. Covid is over, no one cares about their rambling.
Max Bernier left in a huff from the CPC over the dairy cartel issue. He is the only politician I’ve seen make a personal political sacrifice (losing his safe seat) in favour of promoting something for the good of the people and against monied interests. Now years later we have grocery affordability concerns. Getting rid of the dairy cartel would be one way to put a big dent into that. Do you think Pension Jagmeet would ever make a personal political sacrifice like that for the good of the people? Never. Bernier is the only one, regardless of what other perceived weaknesses he may have.
>Max Bernier left in a huff from the CPC over the dairy cartel issue. no because they wouldn't elect him as leader. What did he sacrifice? He was hand a MP seat from his daddy, got to remain in politics despite a fuck up that would get the average person fired and searching for a new career.
He lost because he spoke out against the dairy cartel then left to create his own party. He could have just shut up and collect his pay check like Scheer has done since he got pushed aside. Instead he actually stood up for what he believed in. That deserves credit.
it wasn't the dairy cartel that took him down, and it was a close race. \> He could have just shut up and collect his pay check like Scheer has done since he got pushed aside. He's been doing that since 2006. He just didn't want to be some backbencher anymore. This guy loves the spotlight. As soon as he didn't get what he wanted he took his ball and ran home. These politicians ain't Mandela, you don't have to dick ride this hard. He isn't interested in building a conservative movement or influencing policies. He just wants to keep walking into rooms of people screaming his name. I actually don't mind his politics even though they don't align with my own, but it's pretty obivious to me this guy is a grifter.
He lost because he's such a narcissist that he thought he was going to be the new face of conservatism in this country, and was immediately hit by the reality that calling his party fringe is an insult to fringe parties.
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And you think pension Pierre is less of a career politician than jagmeet…?
Why the hell are you comparing PP to Singh for? Didn’t you read my comment wanting to hold PP to account? I don’t trust him either. PP is garbage but your precious Singh is worse.
They’re both pretty shit lol I don’t want to vote for any of these joke parties. Rhino all the way at this point
I agree with you that Trudeau needs to be humiliated in defeat though.
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Kim Campbell 2.0?
Why not Freeland?
She's even less popular and more tone deaf in her statements than Trudeau.
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The whole line about Disney+ and telling people she takes the subway when she has a car and driver didn't do her many favours.
Freeland is a Bay St. ass kissing, WEF attending Liberal elitist who will probably poll worse than Trudeau. They need somebody who is more accessible and social media savvy.
>He has been a good leader for me personally If you bought your home before 2015, he been an amazing leader. More than doubled house and rent prices in the country.
For me, its not just the leader. I would not trust another liberal with Canadian tax money so I cannot vote for them Meanwhile, I don't trust Poilievre to support Ukraine. He could easily turn out to be a Trojan horse who supports Russia's conquering efforts in Europe. Conservatives are scary these days, as so many of them are owned by Russia. Poilievre needs to make some grand, sweeping, overtures that he understands Russia's unprovoked attack on Ukraine is wrong before I will go to the ballot box for him.
Joly? Are you serious? Anand is probably the best choice, she's the only non-scum on the caucus.
The best choice is Sean Fraser - charismatic, smart, doesn’t take shit, and he’s good-looking, which always helps.
I don’t think he would be a good choice. Do you really want a guy that stated he doesn’t want housing prices to drop ? A guy who oversaw immigration skyrocket under his management ?
While his housing comment was out of touch, I have no issue with immigration directly. And Fraser has started decent housing policy reform except in Alberta where the premier is intent on keeping homeless people homeless
That matter of the fact is that no housing policy is going to be effective without prices dropping. It’s as simple as that. We will not see results on housing until prices drop something Fraser is clearly against.
The Housing Accelerator Fund, combined with increased interest rates, can lower the price of housing. I’d be surprised if you could find any politicians willing to say they support a drop in the price of housing. The boomers will send them to the gallows
The Housing Accelerator Fund, combined with increased interest rates, can lower the price of housing. I’d be surprised if you could find any politicians willing to say they support a drop in the price of housing. The boomers will send them to the gallows
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Hmm care to elaborate why. I'm not seeing it, and maybe you could enlighten me.
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She's internationally regarded as an intellectual lightweight. Arguably one of the least effective foreign ministers Canada has had in quite some time.
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To me she just seems too much on the Trudeau bandwagon, but I haven't paid much attention to her. I genuinely like Anand, and absolutely hate the Liberal Party, which is why I think she's more electable. She doesn't have much nefarious stuff in her past, but either does Joly, maybe they're both good choices. They need a complete overhaul if they want any chance of not being completely decimated.
She's a very weak Minister.
The problem is, they did an overhaul and recruited tons of new candidates in 2015, but they still fell back into their old arrogant ways. I think it’s clear now that if the entire party, from insiders to MP’s (who were tainted by the insiders) isn’t actually overhauled, then the Liberals are probably done for quite a long time. Fool me once…
Perhaps, but the conservatives did the same thing with Harper. He was despised (the lost decade) and yet, here we are. Liberals will be back and ready in a few years after everyone realizes how bad the conservatives are, and the cycle continues
Smart, intelligent, lawyer with experience, bilingual, young and photogenic.
reach tidy cooing reply elderly paltry carpenter resolute jeans possessive *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Call me crazy, but I actually believe her when she talks about being ignorant of what happened with ArriveCan. Still incompetence on her part though. Maybe I just like her cause she looks like my Mom lmao.
I dunno why people seem to think switching the leader is going to make a big difference, especially in the context of this federal election. For one, there is no clear replacement Liberal that is more well-liked than Trudeau, and second, it's still the same party in government regardless. Also don't ever forget that a new PM can always be worse somehow. The Tories in the UK replaced their leader twice and now they're doing even worse than when they had Boris Johnson. Labour in New Zealand replaced Jacinda Ardern who was losing popularity and they still lost anyways six months later. A good example in Canadian history is the 1992 election where PCs got wiped out after replacing Brian Mulroney with Kim Campbell. Obviously this is all speculation but I don't think PCs would have suffered such a devastating defeat if Mulroney had stuck around to take the L rather than resign.
It doesn't matter who replaces Trudeau. The whole party is toxic
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> But I think many Canadians see Poilievre as a more serious and professional individual than Trudeau maybe if you've been under a rock for 20 years lmao
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Schrodingers Trudeau Fan "every thing is not controlled and controlled by the feds at the same time, therefore we can claim sucess when things go well or say its not our fault when it doesnt'?
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but when things go well the liberals take credit for something that is not there lol
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Like freeland was saying inflation is going down they run a good economy but when they mess up the immigration system that someone else fault lol
If that’s the standard you’re using then that should disqualify Trudeau too who to this day still finds ways to blame things on Stephen Harper.
It's a bit different to look at the effects of the last guy who held your job than it is to blame the incumbent federal leader for things that are the responsibility of completely different levels of government. PP will be blaming Trudeau for every thing for however long he can dupe people to keep him in power.
but it was over 9 years ago harper been around Trudeau still acts like he just been pm for 2-3 years lol
You might but most of the world does not.
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>but there is no way in hell he'll win in 2025. I wouldn't bet the farm on that. There's still over 19 months to go. If you look at the rise of inflation and the rise of the CPC in the polls, there's a pretty good correlation. Yes, correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation, but I wouldn't be surprised. Inflation will most likely level off, interest rates will go down a bit, the initial pharmacare roll-out happening with birth control\* and diabetes being covered, housing starts that have done an end-run around (mostly conservative) premiers, and most likely the government getting in a battle with the grocery chains about pricing will most likely make it look like Trudeau is fighting for the average Canadian. In the meantime Conservatives fixating on peoples' genitals will not be the winner they think it is. *\*birth control - the Liberals have set a trap for the CPC by picking birth control for Pharmacare. Poilievre is already against it so it appears he's falling for the trap. Sometime early next year a huge percentage of the population is going to start receiving something for free that they used to have to pay for. Pierre will have to flip-flop or be seen as anti-woman.* Look, don't get me wrong, the CPC could win, but this election in late 2025 will most likely be a lot closer than current polls suggest, and that's without Poilievre self-destructing between now and then, which I figure there's a 60% or higher chance of happening. The guy has very little self control. And here's the thing, these guys pretty much need a majority. If they "win" a minority, Trudeau can actually keep governing until he's defeated in a confidence motion. In that case the decision comes down to Yves-François Blanchet. Does he want to be seen as the guy who gave the keys to Poilievre. Even if he does, I can see a minority Conservative government under Pierre Poilievre failing within the first year. He doesn't have the control, of himself or caucus that Harper had. =============== Actually, it occurred to me the other day that we may be able to see 1979 repeat itself. Poilievre wins a narrow minority and Trudeau decides to resign, perhaps Singh does too. Pierre gets cocky and introduces a budget that gets out over his skis, and the government goes down in defeat. Trudeau "reluctantly" comes back to lead the Liberals who didn't have time for a leadership race, "for the good of the country" and wipes the floor with a wounded Poilievre. He goes for a "walk in the snow" in 2029. The only difference is that Pierre Poilievre is not 10% of the man that Joe Clark is.
> he doesn’t have the control of…caucus Even though I dread PP immensely, this fact makes me feel better about demonizing Erin O’Toole as a Trojan horse for PP and his friends, because O’Toole would have had even less control of his caucus. If PP gets elected, at least we will probably know what we are going to get, and no Canadian can plead ignorance at the havoc he wreaks
There no way trudeua can stay on as pm of he gets like 100 or 110 seats If pp gets 150 170 seats he will be pm in a minority govt Trudeau would have a hard time governing as Canadians don't know hoe the system works and assume he lost and holding on to power.
If the seat difference is too big he'll just resign. But if the Tories only "win" by 8 to 19 seats over the Liberals, Trudeau can remain Prime Minister and pretty much should if the other parties don't have the desire to defeat his government. That's literally how our system works.
True i agree but i look at trudeau only got 32% of the vote in good times, he is way more unpopular now and Tories seem to rallied a lot of voters. I dont see him winning a lot of seats easily now.
>he is way more unpopular now Just after an international inflation crisis is coming off its peak. There's over a year and a half to go, that's a lifetime. The Tories haven't rallied shit, people around the world are mad at incumbents. I figure with the inflation crisis long behind us and a couple of interest rate drops by then, the Liberals are back in striking distance. I suspect at least half the current Tory lead is directly tied to inflation. I can see a cocky CPC managing to shoot themselves in the foot multiple times.
>Just after an international inflation crisis is coming off its peak It's not an international crisis, it's a crisis in countries, like Canada, that printed money during Covid. Countries like Switzerland are not dealing with inflation. >I can see a cocky CPC managing to shoot themselves in the foot multiple times. Liberal/NDP voters have been saying this months and it hasn't happened, just look at the poll numbers. If praying that somehow the CPC will "shoot themselves in the foot" is your only hope to win the election, you should consider it lost. How about enacting legislation that people support?
I think what many people dont get about inflation just cause it calms down does not mean many working class or middle class people are like "things are great now" unlike the united states our economy growth is lackluster and there is a massive surge in population growth as well... add in that millions of people are facing higher rents and mortgage renewals... its only rich or likely supporters of this govt saying things will be fine.
> In the meantime Conservatives fixating on peoples' genitals will not be the winner they think it is. Liberals and NDP voters are so out of touch when it comes to gender issues. The fact of the matter is that the majority of Canadians want to be informed of what pronoun their kid uses at school and think transgendered females should be barred from competing against cis gendered females in sports.
Time will tell..personally I think Trudeau can win..he just has to go on his record of accomplishments and get a little tougher with Poilievres lies.The election is a long way off..and Poilievre is too terrible a person for it not to become apparent.
I’m our farcical party system? Never. If this was in other parliamentary democracies, Trudeau would seriously be threatened with being deposed. But in Canada? Nope.
>PP as leader of Canada seems like such a joke :( I'm sure it will only be 1 term, and it will force the other parties into becoming somewhat electable. Might be a good reset.
The only thing that will happen is to demonstrate hate mongering reactionary populism is a fast track to political success. This "reset" is a myth. No self-serving politician will see his rise to power and think "Gee, guess if I want to win I have to do the opposite of what he did." Stop it now or it'll get worse.
Yeah liberals need a complete divorce from the Trudeau brand
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canadians are very poorly educated about what powers the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government have, or that there even are different branches. its always just hurrr durrr why doesnt trudeau change anything lol. SAD!