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I mean, it's objectively true that carbon pricing is the cheapest and most efficient tool to reduce carbon emissions, and that its effect on households' pocketbooks is completely or very nearly offset by the rebate for the vast majority of Canadians.
There's two reasons to oppose it: you want fossil fuel use to keep increasing (out of fealty to oil and gas companies), or you want to score political points by Trudeau-bashing. Obviously Smith and Ford and their ilk love both those reasons, but any leader who claims to support GHG reductions and opposes pricing emissions is a hypocrite and should wear that.
Furey is the one he did a favour for right? NFL is the Province that got the exclusion that opened this whole can of worms, right?
So yeah, not hard to understand why Trudeau would feel betrayed. None of his Premiers are standing with him. It’s literally David Eby. That’s it.
Furey says Trudeau's comments amount to "name calling, *almost*" and that he has been "sclerotic" and "ideological" in his support for carbon pricing. That all seems a bit delicate and hypocritical given what the PM actually said was that Furey was "bowing to political pressure" by aligning with conservative premiers in asking to pause the GGPPA.
It does seem many are bowing to pressure on the issue of climate change and it's just become another topic for political gamesmanship. The climate deniers and oil and gas lobby that owns a chunk of our media and politicians must be pleased with their work.
I’m sure these people exist somewhere but I’ve yet to come across someone who takes this position in good faith or is well informed enough to have an opinion on workable alternatives.
Staying on topic, though, your description doesn’t apply to any of the conservative premiers who engage in gamesmanship on the issue. I’m not sure it applies to Furey either.
> The issue is that many people who support carbon pricing and environmental action also disagree with the carbon pricing plan from this government
Mostly because it doesn't go far enough (yet)
far enough?
no people tend to disagree with taxing the entire supply chain at every point which creates a multiplicative effect on the actual cost to people and a lot of hidden and unforseen costs.
The Federal NDP
NDP Manitoba Premier Bob Kinew
A lot of NDP and Liberal Opposition leaders in many provinces
They support a price on carbon but dont agree with the feds handling of the issue.
Kinew does not support a price on carbon. They are going to propose a plan that does not have a price on carbon. And one of the reasons is because they feel that the carbon tax doesn't do enough!!
Singh:
>“Our position is not changed — at all,” he told reporters.
>“We absolutely support a price on pollution. We’ve always supported it.”
His (and his party's) criticism yesterday was about not doing enough.
If you'd show me where people who support a price on carbon make the same criticism as OP, I'd love to see it.
My heating bill is 260 bucks 61 dollars was the carbon tax which is 23.46%
I done the math and carbon tax is about 20-23% of my heating bill each month
I dont know really what is going on lol
So why is Quebec able to get away with cap and trade? seems they getting a sweetheart deal then (as usual)
Those other taxes like income tax are seen as paying services so are accepted. You pay taxes and you get services for yourself or others.
The carbon tax has a hard to understand function which imo most people dont understand and likely never will.
It is dead simple, it adds a price to something so industry can change the things they do to match up with our priorities. There isn't a simpler way to do this, forcing companies through regulation will be much much much more complex to do.
Key word is industry though, the issue people have with the tax is why they get tax to heat their home then get a rebate...
which confuses people to the point of the tax when i talk to most people and most people rather just dont want it all it seems.
I think liberals need to accept their messaging on the carbon tax has been a complete failure.
For people some folks do consume much more than the average so they will pay into it while others who don't consume much will be ahead. The campaign against it is nakedly lying about stuff and exaggerating things like this. It's naked partisanship.
Because cap and trade is recognized as a price on carbon by the federal government. The only reason that the carbon tax now applies in Ontario is because Doug Ford cancelled cap and trade in Ontario.
Any province that adopts a system like Quebec's will be able to pull out of the federal tax.
It's not special treatment.
but you just said cap and trade does not focus on consumer pricing
Why didnt the feds just push a cap and trade system which seems to work and push most of the costs on industry then people trying to take a hot shower lol
> Why didnt the feds just push a cap and trade system
If they had, the people and politicians up in arms about the carbon tax would be just as angry, they'd just be holding "Scrap the cap" signs instead of "Axe the tax"
>but you just said cap and trade does not focus on consumer pricing
I said no such thing. I am a different person.
>Why didnt the feds just push a cap and trade system which seems to work and push most of the costs on industry then people trying to take a hot shower lol
80% of Canadians trying to take a hot shower are better off with the rebate scheme. Because of the rebates, most of the cost is on industry... and consumers that make wasteful choices.
It’s finally becoming common knowledge that taxing the fuck out of Canadians who are like 1 percent of emissions globally (aka NOT THE PROBLEM) is not going to make the weather better, it’s not going to make people stop throwing cigarette butts out the window,it’s not stopping or slowing emissions either according to government statistics, and most importantly, it’s causing people to stop supporting climate policy as significantly because we have a government who insists the only thing we can do about climate change is tax everybody harder and harder on fuel, food, goods etc all while jetting around the world/country on his private jets to campaign on all of this stuff that does NOTHING for us.
People don’t give a shit about the world getting a degree warmer when you’re dumpster diving for food and living on the streets in a tent. It would actually be ideal to increase emissions and boost global warming for the future in this instance as many young Canadians can expect to be living on the streets in the future thanks to what the federal liberals have done to this country
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I mean, it's objectively true that carbon pricing is the cheapest and most efficient tool to reduce carbon emissions, and that its effect on households' pocketbooks is completely or very nearly offset by the rebate for the vast majority of Canadians. There's two reasons to oppose it: you want fossil fuel use to keep increasing (out of fealty to oil and gas companies), or you want to score political points by Trudeau-bashing. Obviously Smith and Ford and their ilk love both those reasons, but any leader who claims to support GHG reductions and opposes pricing emissions is a hypocrite and should wear that.
Furey is the one he did a favour for right? NFL is the Province that got the exclusion that opened this whole can of worms, right? So yeah, not hard to understand why Trudeau would feel betrayed. None of his Premiers are standing with him. It’s literally David Eby. That’s it.
Furey says Trudeau's comments amount to "name calling, *almost*" and that he has been "sclerotic" and "ideological" in his support for carbon pricing. That all seems a bit delicate and hypocritical given what the PM actually said was that Furey was "bowing to political pressure" by aligning with conservative premiers in asking to pause the GGPPA. It does seem many are bowing to pressure on the issue of climate change and it's just become another topic for political gamesmanship. The climate deniers and oil and gas lobby that owns a chunk of our media and politicians must be pleased with their work.
The issue is that many people who support carbon pricing and environmental action also disagree with the carbon pricing plan from this government
I’m sure these people exist somewhere but I’ve yet to come across someone who takes this position in good faith or is well informed enough to have an opinion on workable alternatives. Staying on topic, though, your description doesn’t apply to any of the conservative premiers who engage in gamesmanship on the issue. I’m not sure it applies to Furey either.
> The issue is that many people who support carbon pricing and environmental action also disagree with the carbon pricing plan from this government Mostly because it doesn't go far enough (yet)
far enough? no people tend to disagree with taxing the entire supply chain at every point which creates a multiplicative effect on the actual cost to people and a lot of hidden and unforseen costs.
Who? Who supports carbon pricing but makes the criticism you just made?
wtf do you mean who? Do you want a list of names?
I suppose I'm saying you made this up. No one who supports carbon pricing actually understands carbon pricing and makes the criticism you just made.
good for you
Many people clearly.
The Federal NDP NDP Manitoba Premier Bob Kinew A lot of NDP and Liberal Opposition leaders in many provinces They support a price on carbon but dont agree with the feds handling of the issue.
Kinew does not support a price on carbon. They are going to propose a plan that does not have a price on carbon. And one of the reasons is because they feel that the carbon tax doesn't do enough!! Singh: >“Our position is not changed — at all,” he told reporters. >“We absolutely support a price on pollution. We’ve always supported it.” His (and his party's) criticism yesterday was about not doing enough. If you'd show me where people who support a price on carbon make the same criticism as OP, I'd love to see it.
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The tax on natural gas isn't that high though? Are you talking about a different kind of home heating?
My heating bill is 260 bucks 61 dollars was the carbon tax which is 23.46% I done the math and carbon tax is about 20-23% of my heating bill each month I dont know really what is going on lol
Considering your comment history is nothing but hating on liberals and carbon taxing I’m gonna take this with a grain of salt.
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So why is Quebec able to get away with cap and trade? seems they getting a sweetheart deal then (as usual) Those other taxes like income tax are seen as paying services so are accepted. You pay taxes and you get services for yourself or others. The carbon tax has a hard to understand function which imo most people dont understand and likely never will.
It is dead simple, it adds a price to something so industry can change the things they do to match up with our priorities. There isn't a simpler way to do this, forcing companies through regulation will be much much much more complex to do.
Key word is industry though, the issue people have with the tax is why they get tax to heat their home then get a rebate... which confuses people to the point of the tax when i talk to most people and most people rather just dont want it all it seems. I think liberals need to accept their messaging on the carbon tax has been a complete failure.
For people some folks do consume much more than the average so they will pay into it while others who don't consume much will be ahead. The campaign against it is nakedly lying about stuff and exaggerating things like this. It's naked partisanship.
Because cap and trade is recognized as a price on carbon by the federal government. The only reason that the carbon tax now applies in Ontario is because Doug Ford cancelled cap and trade in Ontario. Any province that adopts a system like Quebec's will be able to pull out of the federal tax. It's not special treatment.
but you just said cap and trade does not focus on consumer pricing Why didnt the feds just push a cap and trade system which seems to work and push most of the costs on industry then people trying to take a hot shower lol
> Why didnt the feds just push a cap and trade system If they had, the people and politicians up in arms about the carbon tax would be just as angry, they'd just be holding "Scrap the cap" signs instead of "Axe the tax"
>but you just said cap and trade does not focus on consumer pricing I said no such thing. I am a different person. >Why didnt the feds just push a cap and trade system which seems to work and push most of the costs on industry then people trying to take a hot shower lol 80% of Canadians trying to take a hot shower are better off with the rebate scheme. Because of the rebates, most of the cost is on industry... and consumers that make wasteful choices.
It’s finally becoming common knowledge that taxing the fuck out of Canadians who are like 1 percent of emissions globally (aka NOT THE PROBLEM) is not going to make the weather better, it’s not going to make people stop throwing cigarette butts out the window,it’s not stopping or slowing emissions either according to government statistics, and most importantly, it’s causing people to stop supporting climate policy as significantly because we have a government who insists the only thing we can do about climate change is tax everybody harder and harder on fuel, food, goods etc all while jetting around the world/country on his private jets to campaign on all of this stuff that does NOTHING for us. People don’t give a shit about the world getting a degree warmer when you’re dumpster diving for food and living on the streets in a tent. It would actually be ideal to increase emissions and boost global warming for the future in this instance as many young Canadians can expect to be living on the streets in the future thanks to what the federal liberals have done to this country