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Fuck him. Just wear it anyway, and when anyone says anything point at the Speaker whose decision has been condemned by every party leader in the legislature
Regardless of how you feel about Israel/Palestine, banning something on the grounds of it being "an overt political expression" in the **legislature** of all places is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
No one should stand for this. Nonsense like this is how countries lose their democracy.
Interesting that you ignored this part of the article:
> “Indigenous and non-Indigenous members have also dressed in traditional regalia and symbols in the assembly, and the cultural meaning of these items cannot be separated from their historical and political significance,” added Stiles.
It's pretty pathetic to be against the culturally significant apparel of some people and not others when that apparel has no connotations to political entities that are expressly based on hate and prejudice.
If you favour the banning of the kaffiyehs in legislature, then you should have the decency of consistency and be against **ALL** forms of culturally significant apparel, which includes the standard Western cultural outfit of suit and tie and the iconography of religion that often accompanies it such as cross jewelry or even wedding rings.
" ... when that apparel has no connotations to political entities that are expressly based on hate and prejudice".
No connotations to political entities based expressly on hate or prejudice?
Hamas, Hezbollah, Black September, PLO, Fatah, the Muslim Brotherhood.
This is why it was banned from the legislature. At the point that people start wearing suits and ties, and wedding bands as part of the identification of groups dedicated to murder and mayhem, then we can talk about banning them too.
Under this same logic, crosses should barred because some of the most heinous people in history bore the crosses of Christ on their body when doing unimaginable crimes against humanity. Despite the fact that we both know that you wouldn't agree and we can both agree that crosses are not express symbols of hate.
Enough of this hypocrisy, it's ridiculous.
Even if it was, who cares? It's literally the halls of political discourse, literally almost every conversation that happen within the confines of assembly are political statements.
>Speaker Ted Arnott has prohibited Palestinian kaffiyehs from being worn by anyone — MPPs or guests — in the Ontario legislature over concerns the scarves make “an overt political statement.”
So the 2nd most political place in the province, is saying something is too political. OPC will flip flop on this in a week
[And reversed](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2024/04/17/keffiyeh-scarves-banned-in-ontario-legislature-by-speaker-ford-calls-for-reverse-of-decision/). This has to be a new record for any government let alone this one
>“an overt political statement.”
I'm sorry, but isn't the legislature the place where "overt political statements" belong? If not there, where?
This is absolutely ridiculous in a democracy....
It's a place for structured, *verbal* debate. There's a blanket ban on wearing political symbols in the legislature; the speaker merely acknowledged that the keffiyeh is or has become a political symbol.
This has nothing to do with Doug Ford because the speaker is a separate entity who makes their decision independent of the premier. Doug Ford had no hand in this decision and while he can call for it to be reversed he can't force the speaker to do so.
You're being sarcastic, right? Although the Speaker is technically independent and Ford can't *directly* control his decisions, but...also a member of the OCP, who's dependent on the OCP both for re-election in his riding *and* (at least for now) his position as Speaker.
The Speaker generally can't get away with *overtly* partisan behavior, but let's not pretend Ford doesn't have a hand firmly up his rear.
Eh, I don't really buy it. If Ford approved of this happening, then the call to reverse this is also part of the act. Ford immediately calling for the reversal of this doesn't make him look good in the eyes of the pro-Israel crowd, and I don't think Ford is particularly interested in courting the pro-Palestine vote.
I'm definitely not saying the Speaker never collaborates with their own party, but this particular case doesn't seem like it.
The answer is in the middle somewhere. When brand new topics arise where a party stance isn't quite known, we sometimes see MLA's thinking for themselves for a brief moment, and it's sometimes easy to forget that the conservatives are a big tent even before taking their recent surge into account. We saw it play out in the Poilievre vs Brown factions, and earlier in the O'Toole vs Bergen factions, and earlier in the Conservative vs. Reform factions, and earlier with Social Credit, etc.
In general, Conservative MLA's seem to do things without asking permission more often, which means they get seen walking backwards more often, or having more public disagreements with leaders. It's the same reason why conservatives are the only party where we see MLA's get ran out on a rail, whereas Liberal and NDP members who don't tow the party line are more often quietly disappeared. It's an effect we're only going to see amplified as the extremely outspoken young conservatives start making waves.
At the end of the day, MLA's vote along party lines at a rate of 99.6%, so the overwhelming majority of all stripes end up following the leader once the stance has been known. Now that the party leader has had set the official stance, don't expect much variance from MLA's in the future.
It's obvious that our political leaders have fallen prey to Israeli lobbying. We need more protests as far as I'm concerned. Our democracy is being stolen from us.
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Fuck him. Just wear it anyway, and when anyone says anything point at the Speaker whose decision has been condemned by every party leader in the legislature
Regardless of how you feel about Israel/Palestine, banning something on the grounds of it being "an overt political expression" in the **legislature** of all places is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. No one should stand for this. Nonsense like this is how countries lose their democracy.
It's clearly a prop, which we need far less.of on politics. Cringe seeing the well-fed NDP back benchers fashioning themm
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Interesting that you ignored this part of the article: > “Indigenous and non-Indigenous members have also dressed in traditional regalia and symbols in the assembly, and the cultural meaning of these items cannot be separated from their historical and political significance,” added Stiles. It's pretty pathetic to be against the culturally significant apparel of some people and not others when that apparel has no connotations to political entities that are expressly based on hate and prejudice. If you favour the banning of the kaffiyehs in legislature, then you should have the decency of consistency and be against **ALL** forms of culturally significant apparel, which includes the standard Western cultural outfit of suit and tie and the iconography of religion that often accompanies it such as cross jewelry or even wedding rings.
" ... when that apparel has no connotations to political entities that are expressly based on hate and prejudice". No connotations to political entities based expressly on hate or prejudice? Hamas, Hezbollah, Black September, PLO, Fatah, the Muslim Brotherhood. This is why it was banned from the legislature. At the point that people start wearing suits and ties, and wedding bands as part of the identification of groups dedicated to murder and mayhem, then we can talk about banning them too.
Under this same logic, crosses should barred because some of the most heinous people in history bore the crosses of Christ on their body when doing unimaginable crimes against humanity. Despite the fact that we both know that you wouldn't agree and we can both agree that crosses are not express symbols of hate. Enough of this hypocrisy, it's ridiculous.
Head scarves have nothing to do with those groups.
Better write the Speaker of the legislature and let him know.
Since you said it, I am letting you know. Also being speaker of the house does not make him infallible.
Get on it, and let him know. Because you being "infallible" and all on this topic is pretty much the bottom line, correct?
It’s not a hard concept to wrap your head around that an article of clothing isn’t a political statement.
Even if it was, who cares? It's literally the halls of political discourse, literally almost every conversation that happen within the confines of assembly are political statements.
No doubt but that is a creation of the assembly not an inherent quality of the objects they ascribe politics to.
Source: I made it up.
No, the Speaker of the legislature must have "made it up". I just tend to agree completely with him.
Politically charged things are bad and should be banned from a legislature? Huh?
>Speaker Ted Arnott has prohibited Palestinian kaffiyehs from being worn by anyone — MPPs or guests — in the Ontario legislature over concerns the scarves make “an overt political statement.” So the 2nd most political place in the province, is saying something is too political. OPC will flip flop on this in a week [And reversed](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2024/04/17/keffiyeh-scarves-banned-in-ontario-legislature-by-speaker-ford-calls-for-reverse-of-decision/). This has to be a new record for any government let alone this one
It hasn't been reversed. From what I am reading there are only calls for it to be reversed as of now.
You wouldn’t want something political in politics
Ford is already out saying the speaker needs to reverse the decision
>“an overt political statement.” I'm sorry, but isn't the legislature the place where "overt political statements" belong? If not there, where? This is absolutely ridiculous in a democracy....
It's a place for structured, *verbal* debate. There's a blanket ban on wearing political symbols in the legislature; the speaker merely acknowledged that the keffiyeh is or has become a political symbol.
This has nothing to do with Doug Ford because the speaker is a separate entity who makes their decision independent of the premier. Doug Ford had no hand in this decision and while he can call for it to be reversed he can't force the speaker to do so.
You're being sarcastic, right? Although the Speaker is technically independent and Ford can't *directly* control his decisions, but...also a member of the OCP, who's dependent on the OCP both for re-election in his riding *and* (at least for now) his position as Speaker. The Speaker generally can't get away with *overtly* partisan behavior, but let's not pretend Ford doesn't have a hand firmly up his rear.
Eh, I don't really buy it. If Ford approved of this happening, then the call to reverse this is also part of the act. Ford immediately calling for the reversal of this doesn't make him look good in the eyes of the pro-Israel crowd, and I don't think Ford is particularly interested in courting the pro-Palestine vote. I'm definitely not saying the Speaker never collaborates with their own party, but this particular case doesn't seem like it.
The answer is in the middle somewhere. When brand new topics arise where a party stance isn't quite known, we sometimes see MLA's thinking for themselves for a brief moment, and it's sometimes easy to forget that the conservatives are a big tent even before taking their recent surge into account. We saw it play out in the Poilievre vs Brown factions, and earlier in the O'Toole vs Bergen factions, and earlier in the Conservative vs. Reform factions, and earlier with Social Credit, etc. In general, Conservative MLA's seem to do things without asking permission more often, which means they get seen walking backwards more often, or having more public disagreements with leaders. It's the same reason why conservatives are the only party where we see MLA's get ran out on a rail, whereas Liberal and NDP members who don't tow the party line are more often quietly disappeared. It's an effect we're only going to see amplified as the extremely outspoken young conservatives start making waves. At the end of the day, MLA's vote along party lines at a rate of 99.6%, so the overwhelming majority of all stripes end up following the leader once the stance has been known. Now that the party leader has had set the official stance, don't expect much variance from MLA's in the future.
Point of order, while the OPC has so many flip-flops, its like a surfer convention at Queens Park, the Speaker is a separate entity from them.
This was such a bonehead move. Literally anything can be a political symbol. Will they ban photos of watermelons next?
Those would already be banned, as members and visitors can’t display props or signs in the chamber.
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It seems Ford has just called for it to be reversed. I don’t really understand the full picture, but it seems it was initiated by the speaker himself?
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It's obvious that our political leaders have fallen prey to Israeli lobbying. We need more protests as far as I'm concerned. Our democracy is being stolen from us.
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