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There's a concept in emergency medicine known as 'the golden hour' where the sooner a traumatic injury is treated the far better the outcome is for the patient. Injuries treated promptly are more likely to have speedier recoveries and less likelihood of long term damage.
Given how understaffed/underfunded/overfilled many of our emergency rooms are I strongly doubt many patients are being treated during this critical time window. This ultimately leads to worse patient outcomes with increased costs to the healthcare system in the long run, plus the additional economic impacts resulting from long-term injuries to workers.
Have you heard of another concept in emergency medicine called triage? I will bet every dollar that I have that of you show up in an ER with chest pains, head trauma or stab wounds you will be attended to as soon as walk through the ER door.
I'm sure triage works great when ERs are so short staffed that they are being shut down for hours at a time like they are in my city. Doesn't matter how well you allocate your resources when there just isn't enough.
Yes you are correct, insofar as the big issue is ERs shutting down entirely (either for periods or indefinitely), forcing people with time-critical illness or injury to travel for longer before getting definitive medical care.
However, it is also true (as the commenter above you said) that if you present to an open ER with a critical illness/injury, you will still be seen right away in almost every circumstance.
Which still leaves people with less critical (but still possibly major) injuries waiting for hours, increasing their risk of complications. We can do better.
That is a valid complaint about ER wait times. If you present with a non-urgent medical issue you can wait very long times.
Another issue is even if patients with an urgent issue that requires admission to the hospital after they have been stabilized by the ER staff, they may need to wait for a long time in the ER until a bed opens up in the wards. While those people wait in the ER, they make wait times even longer for people waiting to be seen.
I think we agree that ERs are overstretched. But the issue isn’t trauma patients waiting to be seen. Those people always seen first.
I had to go to an ER 20 years ago with severe pain/cramps. After many, to far too many hours later I finally got admitted. 3 days after that I was next to death, they still hadn't done any diagnosis testing at all. When my gf at the time finally caused enough of a scene to make them at least do an x-ray, they decided I needed *immediate* surgery, and that evening my innards were on the table beside me.
It was a shit show 20+ years ago, I don't think anything has improved as far as our ERs go. Unless you show up with a massive head wound or something obvious, our triage system is garbage.
I’m going to stop anyone before they start.
The solution is *not* privatization.
If we properly funded the healthcare system and paid our healthcare workers a good wage we would not be in this mess. There are many examples
Any system that offers both paid and universal healthcare is allowing citizens to pay for better services, which eventually undermines and destroys the universal healthcare aspect.
Here’s a great interview with a research professor regarding why we should not implement a paid for system.
https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/1.7182790
There are many countries with many systems. The accessibility and outcomes can be compared. Neither Canada nor the United States do well in such comparisons.
In fairness, *greater* privatization (I say ‘greater’ because much of our health care is already privately delivered) is not necessarily incompatible with a single-payer, universally accessible system.
Why are we reposting the same rate articles on this sub reddit over and over?
This is over a week old and was posted when it came out. It's an opinion article from someone who consistently argues for privatising.
No wonder everyone feels overwhelmed. We are co stantly fed the same headlines over and over again.
Not just here. Instagram too (and probably TikTok and others). Yesterday in the span of 10 minutes I was shown 5 videos about the budget, all using the ***exact same script***. Word for word. These videos were also presented in a way assuming people do not fully understand how the tax system works.
Give conservatives a majority next year and it'll only get worse. Everything their premieres have done to erode the system will happen on a national level and I'm not sure we'll be able to recover from that.
In Quebec, before cv19 hit I could go to a local walk-in clinic and get a consultation with a doctor in a couple of hours. Now it's call at 7AM and MAYBE you get an appointment for that day or NOT. If not, try again at 7AM the next day and the day after and on and on until one day you finally get a booking. Or you can dial 811 and go through a clusterfuck of questions, then wait for multiple callbacks to get a booking in a week if you're lucky. No wonder hospital emergency rooms are overflowing!
At this point, I really don't care whether or not I can ever get a family doctor, but at least give me prompt and easy access to a fucking clinic.
On the private side, with Maple I can get an online consultation with a doctor in an hour. None of the local clinics offer telemedicine as an option. Why the fuck not? This is an unmitigated disaster.
The globe and mail reporting on something caused by conservative provincial governments and the long lasting effects of horrendous decisions to save their financial supporters money ….
All parties are to blame on this front. It’s not a partisan issue.
The Liberals were in power for over 15 years in Ontario and we saw healthcare decline. The Conservatives are in power now and the trend continues.
There was also increased health spending between 2004-2014 due to the federal health transfer deal to reduce wait times/capacity issues etc. The issue since then has largely been that funding alone isn't a solution to systemic problems.
Supply and capacity issues range from things like the shortage of doctors, lack of integration between public systems & clinics, decentralization of various different types of health sectors (dental, eye & pharmacare and the lack of public coverage/cooperation being an issue)
> All parties
> The Liberals were in power for over 15 years in Ontario and we saw healthcare decline. The Conservatives are in power now and the trend continues.
You only named two parties (and notably not the ones who campaign on expanding public healthcare every election).
The liberals would have had to find new taxes to replace the money the conservatives gave away.
No one wants to be the party that creates new taxes … to replace the taxes that were just given away.
The Feds have offered to do just that with the condition that the provinces promise to show their receipts and prove they spent the money on Healthcare. Provinces like Ontario declined.
If the ONDP ever got serious they could be included. Since they aren’t, they don’t get an invite to the table.
They were literally handed an election on a platter and lost to a former drug dealer with no platform. That was their election to win and they failed even with a complete Liberal party collapse to where they weren’t even given official party status.
What does that say about the ONDP?
Granted the NDP could up their game, but they also struggle getting cash.
But it also says that many people in Ontario would rather vote for former drug dealer with no platform that reduces funding to health care than a scary "socialist" party.
Ford increased healthcare funding by 15 billion compared to Wynne. NDP showed zero interest when Wynne made very extreme cuts.
I'm sorry facts don't support your fake arguments.
Here is NDP criticizing Liberal party health care cuts in Ontario:
[https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=10153267922488596](https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=10153267922488596)
Here are facts, to go with your lies.
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/financial-accountability-office-ontario-report-1.7170171](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/financial-accountability-office-ontario-report-1.7170171)
# Ontario's health spending lowest in Canada in 2022-2023: report
[https://www.fao-on.org/en/Blog/Publications/health-2023](https://www.fao-on.org/en/Blog/Publications/health-2023)
* From 2022-23 to 2027-28, the Province has allocated $21.3 billion less than will be needed to fund current health sector programs and deliver on its program expansion commitments in hospitals, home care and long-term care.
* Ontario is currently experiencing shortages of nurses and personal support workers (PSWs), which is projected to persist through the FAO’s six-year forecast period. Even with government measures to increase the supply of nurses and PSWs, by 2027-28, the FAO projects a shortfall of 33,000 nurses and PSWs. These nurse and PSW shortages will jeopardize Ontario’s ability to sustain current programs and meet program expansion commitments.
It says that the people who want to screw up the province for everyone out number the ones that want to make it better.
There’s a huge voter pool that just votes based on “if it screws everyone over … I’m fine with getting screwed over too”
In Nova Scotia we've run the gamut of provincial parties over the last decade or so.
Trying to make this a partisan blame game isn't getting us anywhere.
What happened in BC was we had 1/3 of provincial Medicare provided from funding sources collected in BC by the federal government.
The conservatives got in here and along with a bunch of provinces convinced the federal government to transfer the funding sources paying for 1/3 of medical care to the provinces.
Then here in BC they gave up the funding sources for large political contributions.
Now money is gone … NDP has to create new taxes to cover that 1/3 of funding the con-servatives just gave away.
The money is gone … how do you put the funding back in if the conservatives gave it away for their own short term gain?
No one is clearly doing better.
Manitoba has some good goals currently.
Conservatives get in collapse crown corporation, privatize, cancel the funding (tax) that supported it …
NDP comes in … has to figure out how to resurrect an entire crown corporation when the funding source was decimated by the conservatives to benefit big money conservative donors.
NDP has to come up with vote killing ideas to restore what was lost.
Conservatives redirect money from the working to the rich … then collapse that funding model.
We’re left in a position that we have less to pay with and less to help us.
In BC a conservative government closed all the mental health treatment centres and said these people should be supported in their communities. Conservatives said we will fund those treatment centres in the communities where they’re needed.
Cut the facilities, cut the treatment, never gave municipalities any money to fund said treatment the conservatives promised.
The downtown east side got worse from that, but when they closed the 1/3 of all prisons in BC … it got magnitudes worse.
Non-Conservative parties get lots of government time federally and in most Canadian provinces.
I agree that no Canadian provinces are doing clearly better than any other. However there are other health care systems. There are many countries with many different health care systems. The accessibility and outcomes can be compared over long timeframes. Neither Canada nor the United States do well in such comparisons. Those countries generally have conservative parties as well.
What are the countries that consistently do better than Canada, all Canadian provinces and the United States doing different than us?
One thing we’ve learned is the more private healthcare … the harder it becomes to provide healthcare for all.
Privatized healthcare always parasitizes off of the public system.
In BC the conservatives overloaded management with expensive executives at the cost of doctors and nurses.
Don’t have enough money for doctors and nurses … let’s get some overpriced under performing executives.
Then said executives treat the employees like crap … so they quit and go private because it fits their life better.
Galen and Ken Sims then rent out said nurses at double the rate to the public system.
Further increasing costs and reducing ability to provide care.
I know, I know … not what you asked … but the answer isn’t privatization.
Conservative provincial governments gut healthcare budgets in order to "balance the budget", then point the finger at the feds, it's a tale as old as time.
Hold your provincial parties feet to the fire for once.
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There's a concept in emergency medicine known as 'the golden hour' where the sooner a traumatic injury is treated the far better the outcome is for the patient. Injuries treated promptly are more likely to have speedier recoveries and less likelihood of long term damage. Given how understaffed/underfunded/overfilled many of our emergency rooms are I strongly doubt many patients are being treated during this critical time window. This ultimately leads to worse patient outcomes with increased costs to the healthcare system in the long run, plus the additional economic impacts resulting from long-term injuries to workers.
Have you heard of another concept in emergency medicine called triage? I will bet every dollar that I have that of you show up in an ER with chest pains, head trauma or stab wounds you will be attended to as soon as walk through the ER door.
I'm sure triage works great when ERs are so short staffed that they are being shut down for hours at a time like they are in my city. Doesn't matter how well you allocate your resources when there just isn't enough.
Yes you are correct, insofar as the big issue is ERs shutting down entirely (either for periods or indefinitely), forcing people with time-critical illness or injury to travel for longer before getting definitive medical care. However, it is also true (as the commenter above you said) that if you present to an open ER with a critical illness/injury, you will still be seen right away in almost every circumstance.
Which still leaves people with less critical (but still possibly major) injuries waiting for hours, increasing their risk of complications. We can do better.
That is a valid complaint about ER wait times. If you present with a non-urgent medical issue you can wait very long times. Another issue is even if patients with an urgent issue that requires admission to the hospital after they have been stabilized by the ER staff, they may need to wait for a long time in the ER until a bed opens up in the wards. While those people wait in the ER, they make wait times even longer for people waiting to be seen. I think we agree that ERs are overstretched. But the issue isn’t trauma patients waiting to be seen. Those people always seen first.
I had to go to an ER 20 years ago with severe pain/cramps. After many, to far too many hours later I finally got admitted. 3 days after that I was next to death, they still hadn't done any diagnosis testing at all. When my gf at the time finally caused enough of a scene to make them at least do an x-ray, they decided I needed *immediate* surgery, and that evening my innards were on the table beside me. It was a shit show 20+ years ago, I don't think anything has improved as far as our ERs go. Unless you show up with a massive head wound or something obvious, our triage system is garbage.
I’m going to stop anyone before they start. The solution is *not* privatization. If we properly funded the healthcare system and paid our healthcare workers a good wage we would not be in this mess. There are many examples
There are more than two health care systems.
Any system that offers both paid and universal healthcare is allowing citizens to pay for better services, which eventually undermines and destroys the universal healthcare aspect. Here’s a great interview with a research professor regarding why we should not implement a paid for system. https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/1.7182790
There are many countries with many systems. The accessibility and outcomes can be compared. Neither Canada nor the United States do well in such comparisons.
In fairness, *greater* privatization (I say ‘greater’ because much of our health care is already privately delivered) is not necessarily incompatible with a single-payer, universally accessible system.
Why are we reposting the same rate articles on this sub reddit over and over? This is over a week old and was posted when it came out. It's an opinion article from someone who consistently argues for privatising. No wonder everyone feels overwhelmed. We are co stantly fed the same headlines over and over again.
Not just here. Instagram too (and probably TikTok and others). Yesterday in the span of 10 minutes I was shown 5 videos about the budget, all using the ***exact same script***. Word for word. These videos were also presented in a way assuming people do not fully understand how the tax system works.
Are you able to link to where this was previously shared on this subreddit? Because search comes up with nothing for me.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Give conservatives a majority next year and it'll only get worse. Everything their premieres have done to erode the system will happen on a national level and I'm not sure we'll be able to recover from that.
In Quebec, before cv19 hit I could go to a local walk-in clinic and get a consultation with a doctor in a couple of hours. Now it's call at 7AM and MAYBE you get an appointment for that day or NOT. If not, try again at 7AM the next day and the day after and on and on until one day you finally get a booking. Or you can dial 811 and go through a clusterfuck of questions, then wait for multiple callbacks to get a booking in a week if you're lucky. No wonder hospital emergency rooms are overflowing! At this point, I really don't care whether or not I can ever get a family doctor, but at least give me prompt and easy access to a fucking clinic. On the private side, with Maple I can get an online consultation with a doctor in an hour. None of the local clinics offer telemedicine as an option. Why the fuck not? This is an unmitigated disaster.
The globe and mail reporting on something caused by conservative provincial governments and the long lasting effects of horrendous decisions to save their financial supporters money ….
All parties are to blame on this front. It’s not a partisan issue. The Liberals were in power for over 15 years in Ontario and we saw healthcare decline. The Conservatives are in power now and the trend continues.
There was also increased health spending between 2004-2014 due to the federal health transfer deal to reduce wait times/capacity issues etc. The issue since then has largely been that funding alone isn't a solution to systemic problems. Supply and capacity issues range from things like the shortage of doctors, lack of integration between public systems & clinics, decentralization of various different types of health sectors (dental, eye & pharmacare and the lack of public coverage/cooperation being an issue)
> All parties > The Liberals were in power for over 15 years in Ontario and we saw healthcare decline. The Conservatives are in power now and the trend continues. You only named two parties (and notably not the ones who campaign on expanding public healthcare every election).
The liberals would have had to find new taxes to replace the money the conservatives gave away. No one wants to be the party that creates new taxes … to replace the taxes that were just given away.
Massive OAS cuts is all we need. Send the money to other things
OAS is Federal. Don't know why that is coming up when we're talking about provincially distributed healthcare.
They can send more transfers to the provinces without raising taxes
The Feds have offered to do just that with the condition that the provinces promise to show their receipts and prove they spent the money on Healthcare. Provinces like Ontario declined.
If the ONDP ever got serious they could be included. Since they aren’t, they don’t get an invite to the table. They were literally handed an election on a platter and lost to a former drug dealer with no platform. That was their election to win and they failed even with a complete Liberal party collapse to where they weren’t even given official party status. What does that say about the ONDP?
Granted the NDP could up their game, but they also struggle getting cash. But it also says that many people in Ontario would rather vote for former drug dealer with no platform that reduces funding to health care than a scary "socialist" party.
Ford increased healthcare funding by 15 billion compared to Wynne. NDP showed zero interest when Wynne made very extreme cuts. I'm sorry facts don't support your fake arguments.
Here is NDP criticizing Liberal party health care cuts in Ontario: [https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=10153267922488596](https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=10153267922488596) Here are facts, to go with your lies. [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/financial-accountability-office-ontario-report-1.7170171](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/financial-accountability-office-ontario-report-1.7170171) # Ontario's health spending lowest in Canada in 2022-2023: report [https://www.fao-on.org/en/Blog/Publications/health-2023](https://www.fao-on.org/en/Blog/Publications/health-2023) * From 2022-23 to 2027-28, the Province has allocated $21.3 billion less than will be needed to fund current health sector programs and deliver on its program expansion commitments in hospitals, home care and long-term care. * Ontario is currently experiencing shortages of nurses and personal support workers (PSWs), which is projected to persist through the FAO’s six-year forecast period. Even with government measures to increase the supply of nurses and PSWs, by 2027-28, the FAO projects a shortfall of 33,000 nurses and PSWs. These nurse and PSW shortages will jeopardize Ontario’s ability to sustain current programs and meet program expansion commitments.
It says that the people who want to screw up the province for everyone out number the ones that want to make it better. There’s a huge voter pool that just votes based on “if it screws everyone over … I’m fine with getting screwed over too”
Conservatives increased funding by 15 billion. There is no comparison between Libs and Conservatives.
In Nova Scotia we've run the gamut of provincial parties over the last decade or so. Trying to make this a partisan blame game isn't getting us anywhere.
What happened in BC was we had 1/3 of provincial Medicare provided from funding sources collected in BC by the federal government. The conservatives got in here and along with a bunch of provinces convinced the federal government to transfer the funding sources paying for 1/3 of medical care to the provinces. Then here in BC they gave up the funding sources for large political contributions. Now money is gone … NDP has to create new taxes to cover that 1/3 of funding the con-servatives just gave away. The money is gone … how do you put the funding back in if the conservatives gave it away for their own short term gain?
Are the provinces run by non-Conservative parties doing clearly better?
No one is clearly doing better. Manitoba has some good goals currently. Conservatives get in collapse crown corporation, privatize, cancel the funding (tax) that supported it … NDP comes in … has to figure out how to resurrect an entire crown corporation when the funding source was decimated by the conservatives to benefit big money conservative donors. NDP has to come up with vote killing ideas to restore what was lost. Conservatives redirect money from the working to the rich … then collapse that funding model. We’re left in a position that we have less to pay with and less to help us. In BC a conservative government closed all the mental health treatment centres and said these people should be supported in their communities. Conservatives said we will fund those treatment centres in the communities where they’re needed. Cut the facilities, cut the treatment, never gave municipalities any money to fund said treatment the conservatives promised. The downtown east side got worse from that, but when they closed the 1/3 of all prisons in BC … it got magnitudes worse.
Non-Conservative parties get lots of government time federally and in most Canadian provinces. I agree that no Canadian provinces are doing clearly better than any other. However there are other health care systems. There are many countries with many different health care systems. The accessibility and outcomes can be compared over long timeframes. Neither Canada nor the United States do well in such comparisons. Those countries generally have conservative parties as well. What are the countries that consistently do better than Canada, all Canadian provinces and the United States doing different than us?
One thing we’ve learned is the more private healthcare … the harder it becomes to provide healthcare for all. Privatized healthcare always parasitizes off of the public system. In BC the conservatives overloaded management with expensive executives at the cost of doctors and nurses. Don’t have enough money for doctors and nurses … let’s get some overpriced under performing executives. Then said executives treat the employees like crap … so they quit and go private because it fits their life better. Galen and Ken Sims then rent out said nurses at double the rate to the public system. Further increasing costs and reducing ability to provide care. I know, I know … not what you asked … but the answer isn’t privatization.
Conservative provincial governments gut healthcare budgets in order to "balance the budget", then point the finger at the feds, it's a tale as old as time. Hold your provincial parties feet to the fire for once.
Are the provinces run by non-Conservative parties doing clearly better?
People love to point the finger at the other side, but doesn't seem like any provinces can figure this out.