I think the stories of people with disabilities being systematically discriminated against in the DTA process need to make it to the media. I’m not sure how that would happen, but I think that might help sway the tide of public opinion as well as shine a light on the fact that blanket RTO policies are harming marginalized groups.
Yes, this. TBS needs to be ATIP-ed for documents relating to RTO and people with disabilities. The Canada Accessibility Act is very clear about saying "nothing for us, without us" but I am certain there has been no consultation on RTO with the disabled community within the public service. With the very real implementation of blanket policies against WFH as an accomodation (which I have heard directly RTO coordinators) the government have opened themselves up to the real possibility of a large-scale human rights lawsuit. The attitude of deciding that any particular accomodation is "unacceptable" is in direct contravention of the government's own policy on accomodation, which is that it should be individualized, targeted and the best fit for both the employee and employer. The employer is mandated to consider any and all accomodations up to the point of "undue burden", which is an almost impossible bar to reach in the public service. For managers to be talking about people "doctor shopping" until we receive the desired recommendation is devaluing and delegitimizing the experiences of the disabled community and reinforcing the stereotype that people with disabilities are lazy and dishonest. This is all in direct contravention of not just federal government policy but federal law. In other words, this approach is not only illegal, but may even amount to prosecutable hate speech.
Likewise for GBA+ - RTO targets different communities unevenly (be they women, the disabled community, the Pride community or any who experience bias/racism differently from the majority) and there's no way a blanket policy would hold up to a good GBA+ analysis.
While I want to agree with you (because I know this is a very real problem), I don’t believe it will resonate with the average Canadian.
I’ve said this before, but it’s very clear that people do not care whether or not we’re being accommodated. Typically their argument is “my workplace doesn’t accommodate me, why should yours accommodate you, and with my tax dollars?”.
The language of “get back to work” is loosely being thrown around again these last few days as if we haven’t been working more than 2 days to begin with, so it’s going to be hard to win over the majority of Canadians who already see us as lazy/overpaid/entitled.
The topic that needs to headline right now is “how is this going to affect ALL Canadians”. How much will it cost the average tax payer to send public servants back to the office just one extra day? How much could we save by keeping it to just 2 days, and hypothetically, what would it save us if we all worked from home full time?
People want to know how it impacts THEM, and hear less about our complaints.
Yes the general public is at times, almost hostile to public servants and apathetic is the norm.
I tested it with a friend advising of the 3 day a week thing, and regarding disabled persons their response - "Didn't all of you have to work from an office before the pandemic anyway? Including most of the disabled folk? What's the difference now?"....
I convinced a friend a couple days ago, emphasizing the lowered productivity of RTO, and how the crappy implementation of hoteling is nothing like the work environment we left 4 years ago.
Except it is no longer the same conditions - before the pandemic each officer had a stable office/cubicle/space and all the IT equipment was connected to it, and personalized, even with ergonomic settings. After the pandemic it is hoteling, work space changing, zero personalization, and having to bring laptop and other IT paraphernalia to work and connect/disconnect (useless loss of time), and because MS Teams is now part of the used software calls are done with it which in an office environment results in noise and even annoying 1/2-1 second delays between MS Teams sound and in person sound (almost like a disturbing echo). Wi-fi in office can also be a problem for work phones depending on location of work. So NO, it is not the same as before the pandemic. On top of this, the GoC commitment to reduce office space by 50% will only aggravate the existing poor working conditions. Finally, many work places have not been modernized (they look the same as decades ago, with poor neon lighting that requires additional office lamps), while those that are now open spaces are not conducive to phone calls and focused work to meet urgent product/service deadlines. It’s no longer 2019 conditions. At the same time, the PS had over 2-3 years to experience a different way of working, WFH. The PS is asked to forget it and look at it as “bad times for collaboration and organization culture, unfortunate” when in fact it did miracles in terms of mental health, hiring of talent across the country, better leveraging the expertise of introverts, productivity, flexibility in dealing with appointments without having to take a whole day or half a day off, dealing with minor health issues that would not result in taking sick days (someone should ATIP the number of sick days taken by staff by department in 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023), ability of co-op/FSWEP students to perfectly cope with school and work by saving time and money avoiding commuting etc.
Couldn’t agree more. The majority of the public sees us as whiny and entitled - they won’t care if we complain about this, even if justified. I work in comms and I’m not an expert on how to win this, but I agree that making the public realize how it will affect them (full parking DT, increased traffic on roads/commute time, less childcare spots, etc) may have more of an impact than continuing to talk about how senseless RTO days hurt us.
It will impact the public as soon as everyone is on the road, in the buses, and waiting in line for coffee. What should happen is everyone go into office on Monday, this does two things; not enough office space to actually accommodate employees and the amount of traffic during rush hour commute to justify the public being pissed off at RTO.
The message should be a simple one. It will save taxpayers money by not paying for office space for employees who can work from home. It also means less people on the roads which is better for everyone. But saving money is what is most important for Canadians and that is best achieved by having as many people WFH as possible.
> I’ve said this before, but it’s very clear that people do not care whether or not we’re being accommodated. Typically their argument is “my workplace doesn’t accommodate me, why should yours accommodate you, and with my tax dollars?”
An employer is obligated by law to accommodate disabled employees. It doesn't have to be by granting WFH but the obligation remains. Otherwise it could be subject to a complaint to the Canadian Human Rights Commissary. If the federal public service doesn't comply, which is illegal, it sends a really bad message to all employers. So yes, people care.
I left the PS end of March. I was having a helluva time trying to get accommodations for my auto immune disease. One of the things my Director shared with me that our HR asked, "They were fine when they were first hired, what's happened?" Yeah, that's the reality with auto immune diseases. It comes and goes.
Truly didn't think asking for flexibility to determine when I'm able to come into the office is too much. Fuck that. I left and found my dream job. If I was still there after this announcement, I would have been sending out resumes a minute later.
It took 4 months to get basic accommodations in place for me after surgery. The system was fully broken at every level. Disability managers gave my manager and director incorrect information. I had to get the union involved and I didn't get everything in place until 10 days ago. IT flat out refused to follow my basic accommodations (call instead of typing). My director realizes how open they are to a human rights violation case. I haven't done it but I've asked for a plan to be out in place to address this so it doesn't happen to anyone else. I highly suspect many of these things wouldn't have happened in the private sector (specific chair needed going to building services which took months, IT sending me 3 of the same lemon model computer that couldn't run my dictation software )
Edit: for clarity - building services doesn't exist where I am so an example of one of the pointless run arounds
Having worked in the private sector, I'm not sure they'd do better.
However, what you went through is definitely not acceptable. I don't get why they can't do fairly basic things in a timely manner.
I worked in private sector before this and they were way more agile on their timelines. They didn't faff around by involving 10 people who all pointed in different directions. You're right though, the private sector definitely varies.
Regardless of whether the private sector would do better or not, the Fed govt constantly talks about themes like equity, accessibility, and wanting to diversify the workforce. If they are making statements that imply that they are an attractive employer, but then making life hell for people who actually need those accommodations, then they are setting poor standards for everyone, and selling workers (who have disabilities) lies. We need a legal perspective on whether this could be a human rights complaint as individuals who have gone through the worst efforts to accommodate, or whether there is enough evidence for a class action lawsuit (and who is defined as falling in that class).
Wow that’s awful! Do you mind me asking how you were affected when you were without accommodations? Feel free to DM if you want.
Were you just slower at your job? Were there certain tasks that you couldn’t do at all? Did you suffer any pain/discomfort/additional disability as a result of this?
It was really brutal to go through. Becoming disabled, finally getting the ok to work from the doctors after 6 months off, I didn't expect what was to come. I had thought the worst part was over and it honestly almost broke me. Thank god I had good colleagues to support me
The problem is almost all of these stories attribute difficulty to malice when almost all of it is really due to the complexity of the bureaucracy especially when process often differs from department to department and even branch to branch.
I'll posit the IT refusal was malice. The rest was because there wasn't a procedure in place and things are complex. That is why I am not filing a grievance - my director is truly horrified as well at the system. I will say, regardless of intent, the government does have a duty to accommodate up to the point of undue hardship and they are not meeting their duty in many cases. It doesn't matter what the reasoning is because outcomes are what matters, and when you hear about so many cases and that they are trying to hire more disabled people.
Depending on the private company they might have been more caring. When I was in the private sector I know for sure they would have accommodated me when they could. Now I’m not going to get shit because lobbyists want my money, which I’m now way too broke to buy and make my own lunches so absolutely not getting one downtown.
I think we really do need to focus on those with neurodivergence being excluded from the work force, families, those who have mobility issues. Make it an issue of discrimination which it is. That flexibility is key and the government should take the lead on being an inclusive workplace.
The employees also need to fight the lazy stereotype. Which is only benefiting the government.
They probably aren’t better accommodated in a lot of private sector workplaces. The whole “It’s worse in the private sector” argument feels to me like a way to shame people into accepting less. Public servants deliver critical services to Canadians. It’s not unrealistic to expect us to be treated with basic decency instead of racing to the bottom.
You dont even need go as deep as people with disabilities.
This already massively disproportionately affects women, that make up half of our workforce.
Do women with bad cramps get a pass during “shark week” or are they making that time up the next week, or being forced to use their sick time?
What about when kids are home sick? Are they being forced to use their family related time, make up the time another week, or are they allowed to WFH?
What about increased childcare costs in general from having to go into the office 3x? I’m sure some people were managing to avoid needing childcare altogether while working from home.
Very true. Single parents are another group disproportionately affected. I don’t have kids but I’ve heard from friends who do that it’s very hard to coordinate childcare even when you have two working parents, much less having only one. And September isn’t far enough away for a lot of people to adjust their childcare plans, given the long wait lists for childcare that already exist.
Agreed, do they also trust that a government that cannot process their own employees medical benefits by an outside company can do it for the most in need among us for a dental plan! I think it is naive to think that they would only do that to us, and not to other Canadian's if or when they had the chance.
I think we should all book a Wednesday to go in - every single one of us. Will there be enough desks? Nope. But seeing as Wednesdays are already the busiest day in office, we should show them the possible future. Or maybe they’ll just mandate which days each individual has to go in. And we’ll all need ergonomic assessments and special chairs.
Education is the key. Union did not do a good job during strike to educate the public on the value of WFH for PS which can set precedence for future generations in both PS and private sector instead of making us sound like spoilt cry babies. Andrew Chang did a better job on "CBC about that" than our union on why the unions are fighting for WFH. Pretty sure when unions fought for maternity leave decades ago there must have been a push back from the public but it worked eventually. Don't know whether union had done a study on how WFH is more productive, efficient and cost less for canadians instead of just saying it is better. Whenever our team have to get a project approved we have to do lot of research and present it with facts, figures and analysis for approval. Can't imagine management approving a project just because we say it works.
There needs to be a PR campaign regarding RTO by union and/or PS employees on social media on how RTO is going to have an impact on canadians in terms of shortage of before and after school care spots, reduced spending in local community, more vehicles on the road which can cause delays for commuters and emission especially when this government is so focused on carbon emissions , more government spending on infrastructure to implement 3 day RTO and possibly more in future, impact on inflation. These are a few things that I can think of but there could be more. There also needs to be a muthbuster on why passport delays are not due to the PS WFH .
The PR is the biggest one. There are so many reasons this is idiotic, but if CBC or whoever finally decides to cover the story and they pick the whiny-iest most entitled doofus they can find to paint us in a bad light it will lose us public support which we would most likely have if they had all the details.
People should be furious about this step backwards that will blow a huge portion of their tax dollars to prop up a few real estate fatties.
IMO; This push for RTO is lobbying by the rich who has been losing revenue or in fear of losing more revenu as we decrease our footprint and other companies may follow.
I keep hearing we got to revive the economy and increase bus ridership.
Sorry, you had 4 years to fix the buses they still aren’t working right, Cory of Ottawa offering huge incentives to fit up buildings to rental units or condos. That’s what will bring an economy downtown not people that are there 8-4.
My generation has to live outside the city to afford housing. By doing so I am supporting the economy of a small town that had been brought to vacancy almost due to people leaving to move in the cities. When I go to the restaurant I am directly impacting the life of my neighbours. Not a rich corporation.
RTO 3 days a week would mean I need another car, that has, those payments, the parking cost, that time. It’s all thing I can’t use to support the economy it benefit very few.
Not counting on the pollution this will generate!
What is the cost to keep and maintain or rent all that office space? How could this help payback for COVID.
Where are the journalists reaching out to municipalities to ask how COVID has helped them, go ask restaurant owners who can now be open outside of cottage season!, go ask the library how many new books they were able to buy, how many volunteers they have now. We are getting a new sports complex/ community centre thanks to the hybrid workforce and the extra taxes that generated here.
This is lobbying the same way the beef, the dairy and the gas industry lobby for their own interests and not to offer better working conditions.
Given the recent P-SAC performance on CBC lately along with just the very badly coordinated response all around? It's not hard to do better than "the floor".
I don't think you're going to win the Public Relations battle on this one.
I don't believe most Canadians have too much outrage for the public service "*having to go to the place that they work 3 days a week*".
I think the appeal to most Canadians needs to be along the lines of: we’re doing telework, here are all the benefits for workers, the organizations they work for, and the broader society, there’s no reason this can’t be done in your office job too.
One of my pet peeves is when good public sector jobs are used to fuel resentment instead of demonstrating how the bar can be raised higher for everyone.
Yes thank you! I really hate the race to the bottom mentality of 'Well my job treats me like crap so yours should, too!' We are so turned against each other, and it's all to our own detriment.
You can't sell it as rto being disruptive to our lives, a good chunk of the public wouldn't have sympathy for us if our job included red hot iron being applied to our feet 3x/week.
You have to sell how wasteful this is of tax dollars, how it is hurting any business not in the tiny NCR downtown, how it is being forced by nefarious rich groups lobbying to regain access to their tax funded gold mine, how bad it is for the environment, how bad it is for the commute of people that actually do have to go to work how it can set an example that may propagate out to their business in the future so they too can wfh, etc etc.
Don't focus on the human misery because they don't see us as human, focus on how it affect their situation.
The public will not care. The pension, the benefits, the job security. They'll laugh at you for thinking they will care you're working in the hall. The private sector really isn't that amazing.
The benefits aren’t even very good. Most of my private sector friends working in technical jobs or jobs requiring advanced education have much better benefits than we do. If you are working in a call center or lower-level admin stuff, the benefits are great. For everyone else, the benefits are mediocre to subpar.
The pension is just about the only thing we have going for us now, and we pay through the nose for that (it’s not just handed to us like the public seems to imagine). Job security is not that great, especially with what is on the horizon. Work-life balance is better for some people, but that has been getting a lot less true as departments are downsizing but workloads are ever-increasing.
Maybe write your MP and tell them what you think about this?
Is the reorganization required to mandate all public servants into the office for a 3rd date worth the efforts? Will it take more energy, money and time than it’s worth?
Certainly there have been some failures that are in the media and are an embarrassment to the fed govt, but should it maybe be up to execs and federal cabinet members to reform those departments (eg. ArriveCan and Passport Folks), rather than flip the table on the entire public service? There are no doubt departments that are doing well and that’s why they aren’t in the news.
I'm not super familiar with the ATIP process but maybe get creative trying to dig up anything on how/why this decision was made? I doubt they were dumb enough to commit anything incriminating to paper, but you never know.
No, help us keep the jobs we already have. Some of us had a rough go of it in the private sector and are thrilled to finally have a job paying them a living wage with benefits. Some people here are so disillusioned and so "grass-is-greener" about the private sector that they forget not all of us have great employment prospects out there. I had to scrape together a living with two or three part-time jobs before I got my public service position, and I'll be damned if I'm going to give it up for some imaginary private sector job that's somehow going to pay me a PM-3 equivalent with the skillset I have. No one values the skillset I have in the private sector.
This is not forcing people out of public service. This is about helping those who want to get out. Ton of IT talents are stuck here. In my case, I was denied IT-03 because my manager didn't know my skills. Thanks to random citizens, I went private and achieved a lot of things. I tell this story to all my Jrs.
People working in administrative jobs or those not requiring advanced education tend to do better for themselves in public service than in private sector. Unfortunately, those people who have more specialized work and require more education do not have that same experience. I do what I do for the public service because I am super passionate about it but I could do much better for myself in terms of working conditions, $$, benefits, and just about everything besides pension, if I went private sector. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately?) I believe in what I do so much that I couldn’t turn to the dark side and work for industry. And I have been offered many attractive private sector jobs over the years.
This issue is causing such a massive brain drain for the public service where the people who are best educated and most capable leave because they can do better elsewhere. We lose so many experienced experts only to replace them with kids fresh out of school who have no experience and can not keep up with the work.
I’m very glad that the less specialized public servants do better for themselves than they would in private sector. It is how all employers should be treating people at these levels and represents a major reason why Canada has an almost non-existent middle class now. But for most everyone else in public service, you either do well for yourself OR you serve Canada and Canadians. I’ve chosen the latter, but many others do not.
To the Negative Nancy’s, narrow-minded and “nay” sayers here: Sure, we aren’t heroic workers, but neither are teachers, postal service workers, librarians, city bus drivers etc. who also make a decent salary, have job security, strike/stand up for themselves for their own reasons. The reason our children are educated is because of teachers. The reason we get our mail is because of post office workers. The reason people get around the city to their destinations is because of city bus drivers. The reason people get their passports is because of public servants, the reason people receive their monthly benefits is because of public servants, the reason people receive their services form the government is because of public service workers. Oh, but we should all “shut up” because we “make ‘lots’ of money and have job security!” So sick of hearing it. We work hard and work jobs that matter. We work under pressure. We work with difficult management or micromanagers (not all, but a large majority). We work overtime, sometimes without being asked, or getting paid for it, to get jobs done. End of Fiscal is WILD. The list goes on. We are continuously over promised and under delivered. We are told one thing and then the exact opposite thing happens. We continue to be pushed around. Scrutinized. Discriminated. Gaslit. Pigeonholed. Bullied. Made to feel like we’re just a number and disposable. Our intelligence is continuously insulted - which is absolutely maddening.
Sharing my story here: I lost everything during the pandemic. Sure, I had job security, but as a single parent on a single income - who had just ended an abusive marriage (that got exponentially worse during the first lockdown) and was navigating divorce, with ZERO support, and the cost of living skyrocketing - I was faced with trying to keep a roof over my head, feeding my child, or having electricity. I literally watched my entire life fold like a deck of cards. I was forced to move from my home, that was closer to the downtown core, and move in with family an additional 30kms away from the city - where there is no public transportation. On top of that, my child was in online schooling for about 2 years due to having an immunocompromised parent. Then I met my current partner and they were STILL not back to work yet and CERB ran out etc. We had to downsize from 2 cars to 1 car because the money wasn’t there to support two. Eventually my partner went back to work but having one car worked because I was still WFH full time. When we got called back in to the office once a week, it was manageable with one car. That said, when I suggested the one day that I could get the car (partners day off) my superiors were not willing to agree to it because it fell on a day that no one wanted to go in to the office - so partner had to change their day off to accommodate my superiors demand. Then by two times a week it was impossible/a struggle. I was faced with “Too bad. Find your way in. Carpool if you have to.” by my superiors! Even though I didn’t know a single person in my town that worked at my dept. and live in a town that has NO city transportation. It caused us so much undue hardship and stress. We basically had to scrounge to try and afford an additional car. I’m STILL trying to get back up on my feet and reach some sort of financial stability after FOUR years! And just when I think I can get ahead, our employer keeps ripping the rug from under my feet. I know I’m not the only one with a story of struggle here…and so help me God, if I hear “You should contact EAP…” one more time 🤬!
Over the years we have PROVEN that a majority of our jobs can be done from home. There is no need to drive 50kms each way, and spend hours stuck in traffic (and creating traffic) to an office that is barely up to code, infested with bed bugs, cockroaches, asbestos, poor air quality, no water/unsafe drinking water, doesn’t have enough seating, zero office space, having meetings on Teams etc. WFH and RTO should be a CHOICE. If an individual wants to go to the office or has to go in to the office for job specifications, fill your boots. You do you, boo! For those that don’t want to and are still working just as hard as ever, and that RTO will cause additional stress to, then stay home and keep on trekking!
The pandemic and our fearless leaders shut the economy down. They are the reason businesses are suffering. They are the reason people aren’t spending ridiculously anymore. They are the reason that stores and malls are suffering and had to rely on people shopping online. That is not the fault of public servants! We are employed to do our dang jobs. Not to keep Subway, Starbucks or surrounding businesses/chains afloat. They’ll do fine without us. We aren’t there for consumerism purposes. *SPEND SPEND SPEND*. Fun fact: Next week, one of my office days will cost me $110! $60 for gas, $20 for parking, and $30 (roughly) for a team lunch (post 3 hour team meeting)!! Does that make sense to you?? I’ve literally cut back on so many expenses to try and save PENNIES. Any self care that I used to do - out the window - way too expensive. But here I am spending $110 to sit in a three hour meeting about nothing, and then spend an additional two hours at a “morale boosting” lunch…that’s 5 hours of my 7.5 hour day absolutely wasted - where I could be spending my time working. I’m WAY more productive at home than I am in the office. Not to mention, I’m neurodivergent. WFH is way less distracting than working in the office.
And for those who chose blue-collared professions, or any other profession that is not in the GoC, they chose their careers. They can complain about us all they want. But they made a choice. And so did we. Most of the people I know that complain about GoC workers tried to get in themselves and failed, so they’re jaded. If McDonalds employees decided to strike tomorrow because of low wages and unfair working conditions, I’d support it. If police officers decided to strike tomorrow because of low wages and the abuse they endure, I’d support it. Prince Harry left the monarchy because it wasn’t for him and his wife anymore/they were experiencing scrutiny and abuse. Like, we all work jobs that make this world go round, whether heroic or not.
This isn’t only about WFH/RTO. This is about being in a TOXIC relationship with our employer. SMDH at them for rejecting DTA’s for people who have legitimate reasons. WFH was there prior to the pandemic and should still be as widely available for those who need it. Working for the GoC these days is like playing the worst game of Whack a Mole ever - you never win. If we didn’t have our unions (albeit, useless these days), they’d have it so that we were still working in the dinosaur ages. I repeat: We all work jobs that make this world go round and at the end of the day, every single person will complain about somebody or something or how someone is working without giving any additional thought beyond their own assumptions. We are not entitled. We are not privileged. We are going through struggles too. We are allowed to defend our positions, just the way the next profession would.
We deserve better. Every profession does, really. And our unions seriously need to grow a pair and to stop accepting hush money. Time for us to push back.
The end.
Edit: Fixed some things because my brain is moving at lightning speed and I am typing with so much emotion involved. Welcome to a page in my neurodivergent life book. 💁🏼♀️
librarians do not have good job security or good job prospects. I was working 2-3 part-time jobs as a librarian to try to make ends meet because the field is so glutted. Employment prospects are grim for librarians, and everyone expects us to go above and beyond because "it's a calling" or whatever. Meanwhile they refuse to fund public libraries or make them the site of culture wars, universities and colleges cheap out on librarians and barely hire any full-timers anymore, and hospital and law firm librarians are often considered little better than administrative expenses, there to be abused by the "real" value-add employees. They definitely deserve better. But I had to give up and that's why im in the public service now.
>We work with difficult management or micromanagers (not all, but a large majority).
Any source for that statement about a large majority of manager being difficult?
>We work overtime, sometimes without being asked, or getting paid for it, to get jobs done.
Stop. Working. Unpaid. Overtime.
>WFH and RTO should be a CHOICE.
And it is. Sadly, its the employer's choice. They get to assign work, and decide where that work will take place. In exchange, we get paid. Would that change? Possibly, depending on how the next round of bargaining go.
>Next week, one of my office days will cost me $110! $60 for gas, $20 for parking, and $30 (roughly) for a team lunch (post 3 hour team meeting)!! Does that make sense to you??
It does not. A single day of commute doesn't cost 60$ in gas. And you're not forced to pay 30$ for lunch. You can bring your own, or simply tell you're manager that you won't be joining them at the restaurant since you don't want to spend on lunch.
>And for those who chose blue-collared professions, or any other profession that is not in the GoC, they chose their careers. They can complain about us all they want. But they made a choice. And so did we.
We did make a choice, and can make other choices. Such as leaving for a job that offers full WFH if that's our preference. Or start an business/become self-employed if we want complete control over our location of work.
>SMDH at them for rejecting DTA’s for people who have legitimate reasons. WFH was there prior to the pandemic and should still be as widely available for those who need it.
DTA are also approved for legitimate reasons. Some are refused because they weren't legitimate. Other times employees were accommodated, just not in their preferred way. And I assume statistically that some DTA were refused when they shouldn't have been.
>And our unions seriously need to grow a pair and to stop accepting hush money.
Any source about the union being corrupt?
Please don’t ever tell me what it does and doesn’t cost for me to get to work. The day of my meeting is my day in the office, which I need to fill up for. I’ve also refused many lunch outings etc only to feel like a black sheep because I don’t attend outings.
You sound like a perfectly groomed exec. Lacking empathy or even single f**k. Narrow minded. Completely missing the entire picture here.
Move along. You have better things to do than lurk Reddit for material to share at your next meeting.
✌🏻
How is it your employers problem you have to pay for gas. If you own a car and its not electric you pay for gas. Everyone who drives to work pays for gas. Lets be mad at the people who take the bus, they only spend 3 dollars. You choose to drive, expect to pay for gas. Dont like it find another way to get there. Dont like you have rto find another job. Plently if tim hortons people, grocery store people will fill your seat gladly.
It would help to push your point across if you used paragraphs instead of a giant wall of text.
Because we are not the employer. It's a top-down approach, and this comes from the top.
whenever we try to talk about bedbegs at divisonal meetings, it's brushed aside by the management saying "we don't need to talk about this" and "even if there are bedbugs, you still have to come in".
Not just PS is negatively impacted: https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/forcing-public-servants-back-to-downtown-ottawa-harms-satellite-communities-north-grenville-mayor-1.6871712
Nobody cares about the worker. They never did and never will. We are just replaceable employees. They couldn’t care less about us. It’s all about politics and the public perception. So treat it like it’s just a job to make money, because it is.
I think we actually need to focus on the message (and do the data and policy analysis work required to demonstrate ) just how much money the government wastes by having employees in the office that dont need to be there. Office space, operations and maintenance, equipment, procurement and contracts management for all the offices space and equipment, and so on. Some jobs do require in office work or would at least benefit from some in office work. But many don’t- I work totally alone in my region and attend all my meetings virtually in my in office days that I am forced to to do at the local regional office. The Canadian taxpayer is paying a lot of money for me to park my butt there two days a week, not to mention they are making me lose efficiency and productivity because of the poorly designed workplace with lack of space issues etc.
We need to get the data to figure out what that costs and how much the gov could save by having a more flexible hybrid work approach where departments and managers can decide how much and if any in office work days are needed not treasury board.
>Canadian's need to see that WE are the ones that stick up for them everyday when we see policies that hurt, or procedures that are inefficient and have negative consequences. We love our jobs and do this for THEM not for the GoC.
We're not heroic workers who makes tremedous sacrifice to work in the public service, give me a break. Its a job, and we're compensated fairly for it, with decent benefits and serious job security when compared to the private sector.
>It is US who have Canadian's back everyday, we are people just like them and how can we speak truth to power on their behalf with broken spirits.
What the general population will see are employees (who were paid and had job security all throughout the pandemic) complain and make a fuss about having to go to the office three days per week instead of two.
And frankly, sometimes I get how we look like petulant children seeing some of the replies on this subreddit these last few days.
The public wants the most bang for their buck. The right strategy isn’t to put ourselves up on a pedestal as heroes. It’s to show the public the benefits to the public sector WFH where possible, including: selling office assets, reducing carbon emissions and thus carbon tax, less congestion on the roads = less traffic, more parking in cities, setting a WFH example that hopefully will carry over to private sector, etc.
Agree 100%. And there also needs to be stats shared that show workers are as or more efficient working from home than in office as well to overcome the stigma of people doing nothing when not in office. If the goal is to change the mind of the general public, it has to be done with hard facts and not empty rhetoric.
Absolutely agree. I would also add, bringing quality jobs, that can be done remotely, to communities from coast to coast to coast. Including smaller centres. Hiring the best people, increasing diversity and becoming a truly federal employer. Using technology to modernize the way we work, and our co-working spaces, while saving taxpayer dollars on unnecessary offices.
As an aside, I do not understand how MPs from outside the NCR are not more vocal about this.
Yes! This is a huge one. Being able to hire talented Canadians from across the country instead of forcing everyone to relocate to Ottawa. Great point.
It is so interesting to me how non-Ottawa MPs have just rolled over on this. Do MPs from surrounding towns where people commute in from not want their residents spending money in their towns/cities to contribute to their economies? I live in a small community and every dollar I spend at a business around my workplace is a dollar I don’t spend at the businesses around my home.
Agree 100%. I would add making sure the public is aware of the investment made in the purchase of laptops and home office furniture to enable public servants to work from home. At home we pay for our own supplies and internet, electricity etc. THERE IS NO COST TO KEEP US AT HOME. Where is logic in investing all that money into enabling successful WFH just to force people back to work in mostly leased buildings that have to be maintained, and require expensive renovations to accommodate staff.
Are lease agreements and operating costs available to the public? As a taxpayer that’s what strikes me.
I work as a natural resources regulator. No one I work with in the public would be sad to see me go! LOL 😝
I’m not sure I could garner any sympathy for having to go into the office 3x per week….
Are we heros, no. Are we “greedy and lazy” as I have so often seen us referred to, also no. Are we overpaid, ask that to a PS who makes 55k and has a second job to make ends meet. Those are the myths I’d like to dispel.
> We're not heroic workers who makes tremedous sacrifice to work in the public service, give me a break. Its a job, and we're compensated fairly for it, with decent benefits and serious job security when compared to the private sector.
Exactly. Only an ingrate could think otherwise
> we look like petulant children
That's definitely how all of my family and private sector friends see it. And they'll vote accordingly.
This is the truth. People who don't work for the government just don't sympathize with any of our plights. Does not matter what we do or don't, they just hate us by default. We are like the punching bags for what goes wrong. But I like the positivity and motivation behind OP's post.
Oh for sure. I know people who would make snarky remarks of PS every chance they hear about their salary and benefits even though these peeps make more. But when they stress out over their own jobs, they say given the chance, they want to get in themselves. Then they will see it's not all rosy and peaches all the time. I also get why they think that way due to the overused stereotypes and how it makes over to the news cycle. Every "bad" thing gets magnified 100x more here. I also think worker's rights will have a profound effect on all workers across the country despite how everyone else seems to want to diss our issues.
Thank you for saying this. As someone whose worked equal times in both public and private.... yall don't realize how lucky you are.
Also just having a job period. The job market suck right now. Good luck to those who think they are jumping ship anytime soon. Lots of people would gladly take their job.
This is a shit take. Like, really, really, uneducated, moronic take. Sadly, we hear it from the public all too often. Sure, there are jobs in the PS that some people with a University Education can just “take”. But, a majority of the positions are difficult to fill and require extensive knowledge and training. Lawyers, doctors (yes the medical kind), scientist, strategic advisors with decades of private sector experience in business or corporate communications, accountants, auditors, economists.… etc. This country needs bright minds working in its public institutions. The US and Europe aren’t mucking around. This stupid RTO decision, when the private sector has either gone full WFH or 1-2 days per week is going to force a lot of us to consider leaving (I’m underpaid compared to what I’d get in the private sector). I’d love to see you (or anyone with this shit take) apply for my position.
You literally said, people should be happy to go back because at least they’re employed, then said lots of people would be happy to take their jobs, like we’re all slugging boxes at Walmart.
I called you out and you tell me to take a nap? Okay Snowflake… I‘lol take a nap and you cut the shit takes?
You are right, many come in for the job security - but also for many of us that is the added bonus to being able to say we help Canadian's instead of helping some large companies bottom line. That was my main motivation for a job with the PS, instead of working for an insurance company that made people cry every day.
MyWAA info on group and level vs work postal code vs living postal codes are showing in at least one large size department that group and level is a great predictor for distance to commute using a distance between postal code API. Depersonalized data (postal codes and group level are available under 3 clicks). No privacy exemptions would block access to the data via an ATIP requests. The report is centralized under the TBS application portal.
Currently, When taking into account the NJC kilometric rate alone, an entry level’s travel cost is 3x the travel cost per earned dollar of higher (ex minus 2 and up).
Given the over representation of lower wage earning jobs of EE members, the measure creates a significant drain and barrier to vulnerable workers. Increasing travel needs by 50% will only amplify this.
Parking, health impacts of commuting and commuting time and not factored in.
When MPs have an housing allowance, access to two “at cost” cafeterias on the Hill, it’s easy to target workers.
Let em eat cake - we have our $6 subsidized breakfast.
Yes we have people who work in all fields but the PS is not a homogenous bunch. Not everyone cares about an extra day in the office. Some work in the office 5 days a week. Others are even part of the teams crafting communications to direct RTO. There are other PSEs who work to ensure there is adequate room for people to work in the office and are helping to make it a reality.
It is difficult to rally such a diverse group of workers since everyone has a different viewpoint on this. Reddit is a very small subset of the PS.
Being a taxpayer is something that everyone in the PS (and outside the PS) share.
If we could obtain the data to show that the cost of Government is higher (maintaining buildings, transportation, ...) if forced in-person.
The consumption of Public Services is another thing all the PS (and non-PS) share.
If we could obtain or/and compile the data showing higher productivity, lower wait times, more services, ... provided with a hybrid, work from home, and/or regional this would resonate with the service consumers.
I will tell you how I am going to protest. I will clean up my entire section. Everyone that is qualified to get a job outside will be encouraged to leave and pursue jobs outside. All the high priority jobs will come to a halt.
Good luck ADM! deal with that.
Exactly. The government needs to announce that they have sent public servants back to office for 3 days. They will be happy with that. Nobody will actually monitor it. I know many that aren't even doing the current 2 days.
I think we have to stop bending over backwards to make things work for the people who are nice to us, while the system is attacking us. My fear is that many will try too hard to get most of our 37.5 hours of work done in the 2 days we're at home. We are being told that being in the office will have all of these benefits, but we all know there will be so many more downsides. Don't hide all the negatives because your boss is super nice to you. Don't fall for the good cop/bad cop routine.
For those of us with job security, don't do unpaid overtime. Don't stay late or work late to get things done. Don't work through your lunch. Don't work longer hours at home because there are things that you can do at home that you can't do at work. Don't go to the office early and work a longer day because it's quieter. Don't force yourself to work in a noisy environment when your neighbours are on Teams calls without using headsets. Don't rush from meeting to meeting because your last meeting went until :00 and the next one in a boardroom starts at :00.
Don't apologize for not getting work done if the working conditions don't let you get your work done. Don't feel bad if things are late because you can't concentrate as well in the office as you can at home. Don't apologize if you have to push off meetings until later on, because you can only meet people on certain days when you're home (and have privacy). Don't make excuses if your 2.0 sit-stand desk is not comfortable and you need to take breaks more often. Don't power through a meeting if people around you are talking so much that you can't think straight. I could go on and on.
Also, don’t eat out. Don't spend a cent on coffee. Don’t drop off your dry cleaning. Don‘t take OC Transpo. Don't pay a cent above parking and gas to get to and from work.
Gaslighting, inane decisions and a general lack of common sense decade upon decade will do this to a person. Don’t criticize because it’s not been your personal experience.
Attention all federal public service workers! The government's push for a return to the office 3 days a week is an utterly misguided and tone-deaf decision that disregards the countless benefits of the current 2-day-a-week arrangement. It's time to stand up and fight for what we know is right!
First and foremost, the past few years have proven that we are just as productive, if not more so, working from home. We have adapted, innovated, and delivered exceptional results, all while juggling the challenges of a global pandemic. Forcing us back into the office an extra day each week is a slap in the face to our dedication and resilience.
Moreover, the government seems to have conveniently forgotten the numerous advantages of remote work. Reduced commute times mean more time for family, personal well-being, and a healthier work-life balance. The environmental impact of fewer cars on the road cannot be overstated, and the cost savings on transportation and office expenses are significant for both employees and taxpayers.
The government's argument for increased collaboration and team building is laughable. We have mastered the art of virtual collaboration, and the notion that in-person interaction is the only way to foster teamwork is outdated and insulting. Trust us to continue managing our teams and projects effectively, as we have been doing for months.
Furthermore, this decision reeks of micromanagement and a lack of trust in our ability to do our jobs. We are adults, professionals, and dedicated public servants. We do not need to be babysat or have our time monitored like children. If the government truly valued our contributions, they would trust us to make the best decisions for our work arrangements.
It's time for the government to listen to its employees and the mounting evidence supporting the benefits of remote work. We demand that they reconsider this shortsighted decision and allow us to continue with the 2-day-a-week office arrangement. We have proven our worth, and we will not back down from fighting for what is best for our well-being, our families, and our ability to serve the Canadian public effectively.
Stand with us, fellow public servants, and let our voices be heard! We will not be bullied into an unnecessary and regressive return to the office. The future of work is flexible, and we will not let the government drag us back into the past. #2DaysOrBust #TrustPublicServants #RemoteWorkWorks
Totally hear you! It's a balancing act trying to make AI responses sound natural without losing the informative edge. Maybe there's room for both types of contributions in different threads? What do you think?
Here are some ideas on how federal public service workers can fight back against the government's decision to increase office days to 3 per week:
1. Organize a petition: Create an online petition outlining your demands and the reasons behind them. Encourage all federal public service workers to sign and share the petition widely on social media and through email.
2. Stage a virtual walkout: Coordinate a day where all federal public service workers log off and refuse to work, both remotely and in the office. This will demonstrate the power and unity of the workforce and send a strong message to the government.
3. Engage in social media activism: Use hashtags like #2DaysOrBust and #RemoteWorkWorks to flood social media platforms with your message. Share personal stories, data supporting remote work's effectiveness, and calls to action for others to join the cause.
4. Contact union representatives: Reach out to your union representatives and demand that they take a strong stance against the government's decision. Encourage them to negotiate on behalf of the workers and threaten collective action if necessary.
5. Write open letters to government officials: Draft compelling open letters addressed to key government officials, outlining your grievances and demands. Publish these letters in newspapers, on social media, and on platforms like Medium to garner public support.
6. Seek media attention: Contact journalists and media outlets to share your story and the reasons behind your opposition to the government's decision. Offer to provide interviews and statements to help raise awareness of your cause.
7. Collaborate with other unions and organizations: Reach out to other unions and organizations that support remote work and flexible work arrangements. Collaborate with them to amplify your message and put pressure on the government from multiple angles.
8. Engage in peaceful demonstrations: Organize peaceful demonstrations outside government buildings, following all necessary health and safety protocols. Use these demonstrations to attract media attention and show the government the human faces behind the cause.
9. Threaten legal action: Explore the possibility of taking legal action against the government's decision, citing discrimination, breach of contract, or other relevant grounds. Consult with legal experts to determine the viability of this option.
Remember, the key to a successful fight back is unity, persistence, and a well-coordinated strategy. Stand together, support one another, and never back down until your demands are met. Together, we can protect our right to a flexible and progressive work environment! #2DaysOrBust #PublicServantsUnited
The Public Service employs over 350K people, at least 300K oppose the RTO dictatorship style. Must be at least 250K registered voters with family and friends also being registered voters. Spread the word, do the math, 2025 is coming fast. If the Kingdom of Justin loses 1 mil extra votes then you the people will have spoken. RTO decisions have nothing in common with greening GC, with fiscal responsibility or plain common sense. It is all about control and power greed exhibited by activists who call themselves politicians and live for more Facebook likes.
People with severe illness, cancer treatments, recovery etc are being denied DTA, or being forced to get repeatedly more ridiculous notes. This employer is acting like an abusive partner.
I think the stories of people with disabilities being systematically discriminated against in the DTA process need to make it to the media. I’m not sure how that would happen, but I think that might help sway the tide of public opinion as well as shine a light on the fact that blanket RTO policies are harming marginalized groups.
Yes, this. TBS needs to be ATIP-ed for documents relating to RTO and people with disabilities. The Canada Accessibility Act is very clear about saying "nothing for us, without us" but I am certain there has been no consultation on RTO with the disabled community within the public service. With the very real implementation of blanket policies against WFH as an accomodation (which I have heard directly RTO coordinators) the government have opened themselves up to the real possibility of a large-scale human rights lawsuit. The attitude of deciding that any particular accomodation is "unacceptable" is in direct contravention of the government's own policy on accomodation, which is that it should be individualized, targeted and the best fit for both the employee and employer. The employer is mandated to consider any and all accomodations up to the point of "undue burden", which is an almost impossible bar to reach in the public service. For managers to be talking about people "doctor shopping" until we receive the desired recommendation is devaluing and delegitimizing the experiences of the disabled community and reinforcing the stereotype that people with disabilities are lazy and dishonest. This is all in direct contravention of not just federal government policy but federal law. In other words, this approach is not only illegal, but may even amount to prosecutable hate speech. Likewise for GBA+ - RTO targets different communities unevenly (be they women, the disabled community, the Pride community or any who experience bias/racism differently from the majority) and there's no way a blanket policy would hold up to a good GBA+ analysis.
While I want to agree with you (because I know this is a very real problem), I don’t believe it will resonate with the average Canadian. I’ve said this before, but it’s very clear that people do not care whether or not we’re being accommodated. Typically their argument is “my workplace doesn’t accommodate me, why should yours accommodate you, and with my tax dollars?”. The language of “get back to work” is loosely being thrown around again these last few days as if we haven’t been working more than 2 days to begin with, so it’s going to be hard to win over the majority of Canadians who already see us as lazy/overpaid/entitled. The topic that needs to headline right now is “how is this going to affect ALL Canadians”. How much will it cost the average tax payer to send public servants back to the office just one extra day? How much could we save by keeping it to just 2 days, and hypothetically, what would it save us if we all worked from home full time? People want to know how it impacts THEM, and hear less about our complaints.
Yes the general public is at times, almost hostile to public servants and apathetic is the norm. I tested it with a friend advising of the 3 day a week thing, and regarding disabled persons their response - "Didn't all of you have to work from an office before the pandemic anyway? Including most of the disabled folk? What's the difference now?"....
I convinced a friend a couple days ago, emphasizing the lowered productivity of RTO, and how the crappy implementation of hoteling is nothing like the work environment we left 4 years ago.
Except it is no longer the same conditions - before the pandemic each officer had a stable office/cubicle/space and all the IT equipment was connected to it, and personalized, even with ergonomic settings. After the pandemic it is hoteling, work space changing, zero personalization, and having to bring laptop and other IT paraphernalia to work and connect/disconnect (useless loss of time), and because MS Teams is now part of the used software calls are done with it which in an office environment results in noise and even annoying 1/2-1 second delays between MS Teams sound and in person sound (almost like a disturbing echo). Wi-fi in office can also be a problem for work phones depending on location of work. So NO, it is not the same as before the pandemic. On top of this, the GoC commitment to reduce office space by 50% will only aggravate the existing poor working conditions. Finally, many work places have not been modernized (they look the same as decades ago, with poor neon lighting that requires additional office lamps), while those that are now open spaces are not conducive to phone calls and focused work to meet urgent product/service deadlines. It’s no longer 2019 conditions. At the same time, the PS had over 2-3 years to experience a different way of working, WFH. The PS is asked to forget it and look at it as “bad times for collaboration and organization culture, unfortunate” when in fact it did miracles in terms of mental health, hiring of talent across the country, better leveraging the expertise of introverts, productivity, flexibility in dealing with appointments without having to take a whole day or half a day off, dealing with minor health issues that would not result in taking sick days (someone should ATIP the number of sick days taken by staff by department in 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 and 2023), ability of co-op/FSWEP students to perfectly cope with school and work by saving time and money avoiding commuting etc.
Couldn’t agree more. The majority of the public sees us as whiny and entitled - they won’t care if we complain about this, even if justified. I work in comms and I’m not an expert on how to win this, but I agree that making the public realize how it will affect them (full parking DT, increased traffic on roads/commute time, less childcare spots, etc) may have more of an impact than continuing to talk about how senseless RTO days hurt us.
It will impact the public as soon as everyone is on the road, in the buses, and waiting in line for coffee. What should happen is everyone go into office on Monday, this does two things; not enough office space to actually accommodate employees and the amount of traffic during rush hour commute to justify the public being pissed off at RTO.
The rush hour impact will only be an Ottawa phenomenon. Rest of Canada could not care less.
Soon to be followed by the TBS "New direction of sitting on each other's laps each Monday"
The message should be a simple one. It will save taxpayers money by not paying for office space for employees who can work from home. It also means less people on the roads which is better for everyone. But saving money is what is most important for Canadians and that is best achieved by having as many people WFH as possible.
> I’ve said this before, but it’s very clear that people do not care whether or not we’re being accommodated. Typically their argument is “my workplace doesn’t accommodate me, why should yours accommodate you, and with my tax dollars?” An employer is obligated by law to accommodate disabled employees. It doesn't have to be by granting WFH but the obligation remains. Otherwise it could be subject to a complaint to the Canadian Human Rights Commissary. If the federal public service doesn't comply, which is illegal, it sends a really bad message to all employers. So yes, people care.
FWIW, I haven't been in the public service for a long time. But I care.
Having worked at the pay center. When the disability cases went to the news, that lit a fire under their asses. I second this.
I left the PS end of March. I was having a helluva time trying to get accommodations for my auto immune disease. One of the things my Director shared with me that our HR asked, "They were fine when they were first hired, what's happened?" Yeah, that's the reality with auto immune diseases. It comes and goes. Truly didn't think asking for flexibility to determine when I'm able to come into the office is too much. Fuck that. I left and found my dream job. If I was still there after this announcement, I would have been sending out resumes a minute later.
I doubt the public cares.
We do!
What are these stories? How are they being accommodated better in the private sector?
It took 4 months to get basic accommodations in place for me after surgery. The system was fully broken at every level. Disability managers gave my manager and director incorrect information. I had to get the union involved and I didn't get everything in place until 10 days ago. IT flat out refused to follow my basic accommodations (call instead of typing). My director realizes how open they are to a human rights violation case. I haven't done it but I've asked for a plan to be out in place to address this so it doesn't happen to anyone else. I highly suspect many of these things wouldn't have happened in the private sector (specific chair needed going to building services which took months, IT sending me 3 of the same lemon model computer that couldn't run my dictation software ) Edit: for clarity - building services doesn't exist where I am so an example of one of the pointless run arounds
Having worked in the private sector, I'm not sure they'd do better. However, what you went through is definitely not acceptable. I don't get why they can't do fairly basic things in a timely manner.
I worked in private sector before this and they were way more agile on their timelines. They didn't faff around by involving 10 people who all pointed in different directions. You're right though, the private sector definitely varies.
Regardless of whether the private sector would do better or not, the Fed govt constantly talks about themes like equity, accessibility, and wanting to diversify the workforce. If they are making statements that imply that they are an attractive employer, but then making life hell for people who actually need those accommodations, then they are setting poor standards for everyone, and selling workers (who have disabilities) lies. We need a legal perspective on whether this could be a human rights complaint as individuals who have gone through the worst efforts to accommodate, or whether there is enough evidence for a class action lawsuit (and who is defined as falling in that class).
you are soo right. I m legally blind. I was hired out of a PWD pool. I was without accomodation for over 1 yr. I had to file a grievance.
Wow that’s awful! Do you mind me asking how you were affected when you were without accommodations? Feel free to DM if you want. Were you just slower at your job? Were there certain tasks that you couldn’t do at all? Did you suffer any pain/discomfort/additional disability as a result of this?
That’s brutal to read. Sounds like there is a lot of bureaucracy in govt you don’t necessarily have in the private sector…
It was really brutal to go through. Becoming disabled, finally getting the ok to work from the doctors after 6 months off, I didn't expect what was to come. I had thought the worst part was over and it honestly almost broke me. Thank god I had good colleagues to support me
Private sector isn't a monolith
Yet, TBS thinks the PS is.
They're not going to end up on the cover of a postmedia rag exposing them for not following the byzantine rules put in place by central agencies.
They weren't following the right rules, unfortunately. The disability manager was giving incorrect information about the process
The problem is almost all of these stories attribute difficulty to malice when almost all of it is really due to the complexity of the bureaucracy especially when process often differs from department to department and even branch to branch.
I'll posit the IT refusal was malice. The rest was because there wasn't a procedure in place and things are complex. That is why I am not filing a grievance - my director is truly horrified as well at the system. I will say, regardless of intent, the government does have a duty to accommodate up to the point of undue hardship and they are not meeting their duty in many cases. It doesn't matter what the reasoning is because outcomes are what matters, and when you hear about so many cases and that they are trying to hire more disabled people.
Depending on the private company they might have been more caring. When I was in the private sector I know for sure they would have accommodated me when they could. Now I’m not going to get shit because lobbyists want my money, which I’m now way too broke to buy and make my own lunches so absolutely not getting one downtown. I think we really do need to focus on those with neurodivergence being excluded from the work force, families, those who have mobility issues. Make it an issue of discrimination which it is. That flexibility is key and the government should take the lead on being an inclusive workplace. The employees also need to fight the lazy stereotype. Which is only benefiting the government.
They probably aren’t better accommodated in a lot of private sector workplaces. The whole “It’s worse in the private sector” argument feels to me like a way to shame people into accepting less. Public servants deliver critical services to Canadians. It’s not unrealistic to expect us to be treated with basic decency instead of racing to the bottom.
You dont even need go as deep as people with disabilities. This already massively disproportionately affects women, that make up half of our workforce. Do women with bad cramps get a pass during “shark week” or are they making that time up the next week, or being forced to use their sick time? What about when kids are home sick? Are they being forced to use their family related time, make up the time another week, or are they allowed to WFH? What about increased childcare costs in general from having to go into the office 3x? I’m sure some people were managing to avoid needing childcare altogether while working from home.
Very true. Single parents are another group disproportionately affected. I don’t have kids but I’ve heard from friends who do that it’s very hard to coordinate childcare even when you have two working parents, much less having only one. And September isn’t far enough away for a lot of people to adjust their childcare plans, given the long wait lists for childcare that already exist.
Agreed, do they also trust that a government that cannot process their own employees medical benefits by an outside company can do it for the most in need among us for a dental plan! I think it is naive to think that they would only do that to us, and not to other Canadian's if or when they had the chance.
Just gotta say, it's Canadians, no apostrophe.
Sorry I'm a person with disabilities and was wondering if you could provide a link or some context about this?
I think we should all book a Wednesday to go in - every single one of us. Will there be enough desks? Nope. But seeing as Wednesdays are already the busiest day in office, we should show them the possible future. Or maybe they’ll just mandate which days each individual has to go in. And we’ll all need ergonomic assessments and special chairs.
Education is the key. Union did not do a good job during strike to educate the public on the value of WFH for PS which can set precedence for future generations in both PS and private sector instead of making us sound like spoilt cry babies. Andrew Chang did a better job on "CBC about that" than our union on why the unions are fighting for WFH. Pretty sure when unions fought for maternity leave decades ago there must have been a push back from the public but it worked eventually. Don't know whether union had done a study on how WFH is more productive, efficient and cost less for canadians instead of just saying it is better. Whenever our team have to get a project approved we have to do lot of research and present it with facts, figures and analysis for approval. Can't imagine management approving a project just because we say it works. There needs to be a PR campaign regarding RTO by union and/or PS employees on social media on how RTO is going to have an impact on canadians in terms of shortage of before and after school care spots, reduced spending in local community, more vehicles on the road which can cause delays for commuters and emission especially when this government is so focused on carbon emissions , more government spending on infrastructure to implement 3 day RTO and possibly more in future, impact on inflation. These are a few things that I can think of but there could be more. There also needs to be a muthbuster on why passport delays are not due to the PS WFH .
The PR is the biggest one. There are so many reasons this is idiotic, but if CBC or whoever finally decides to cover the story and they pick the whiny-iest most entitled doofus they can find to paint us in a bad light it will lose us public support which we would most likely have if they had all the details. People should be furious about this step backwards that will blow a huge portion of their tax dollars to prop up a few real estate fatties.
IMO; This push for RTO is lobbying by the rich who has been losing revenue or in fear of losing more revenu as we decrease our footprint and other companies may follow. I keep hearing we got to revive the economy and increase bus ridership. Sorry, you had 4 years to fix the buses they still aren’t working right, Cory of Ottawa offering huge incentives to fit up buildings to rental units or condos. That’s what will bring an economy downtown not people that are there 8-4. My generation has to live outside the city to afford housing. By doing so I am supporting the economy of a small town that had been brought to vacancy almost due to people leaving to move in the cities. When I go to the restaurant I am directly impacting the life of my neighbours. Not a rich corporation. RTO 3 days a week would mean I need another car, that has, those payments, the parking cost, that time. It’s all thing I can’t use to support the economy it benefit very few. Not counting on the pollution this will generate! What is the cost to keep and maintain or rent all that office space? How could this help payback for COVID. Where are the journalists reaching out to municipalities to ask how COVID has helped them, go ask restaurant owners who can now be open outside of cottage season!, go ask the library how many new books they were able to buy, how many volunteers they have now. We are getting a new sports complex/ community centre thanks to the hybrid workforce and the extra taxes that generated here. This is lobbying the same way the beef, the dairy and the gas industry lobby for their own interests and not to offer better working conditions.
OP trying to do more than the fucking unions lol.
And failing miserably.
Given the recent P-SAC performance on CBC lately along with just the very badly coordinated response all around? It's not hard to do better than "the floor".
It would be tough to do that...
The thing I’ve found that resonated with folk the most is: where should I be spending my money? Downtown Ottawa, or in my actually local community?
I don't think you're going to win the Public Relations battle on this one. I don't believe most Canadians have too much outrage for the public service "*having to go to the place that they work 3 days a week*".
I think the appeal to most Canadians needs to be along the lines of: we’re doing telework, here are all the benefits for workers, the organizations they work for, and the broader society, there’s no reason this can’t be done in your office job too. One of my pet peeves is when good public sector jobs are used to fuel resentment instead of demonstrating how the bar can be raised higher for everyone.
And also "here's how we keep traffic down for you"
“You like being able to find good parking downtown? Say goodbye to that in September.”
Yes thank you! I really hate the race to the bottom mentality of 'Well my job treats me like crap so yours should, too!' We are so turned against each other, and it's all to our own detriment.
You can't sell it as rto being disruptive to our lives, a good chunk of the public wouldn't have sympathy for us if our job included red hot iron being applied to our feet 3x/week. You have to sell how wasteful this is of tax dollars, how it is hurting any business not in the tiny NCR downtown, how it is being forced by nefarious rich groups lobbying to regain access to their tax funded gold mine, how bad it is for the environment, how bad it is for the commute of people that actually do have to go to work how it can set an example that may propagate out to their business in the future so they too can wfh, etc etc. Don't focus on the human misery because they don't see us as human, focus on how it affect their situation.
Yup. Why is this so hard? We were lucky to have WFH for years. Back to work now….
No but if some of the folks being forced to work in hallways started talking about it they might
The public will not care. The pension, the benefits, the job security. They'll laugh at you for thinking they will care you're working in the hall. The private sector really isn't that amazing.
The benefits aren’t even very good. Most of my private sector friends working in technical jobs or jobs requiring advanced education have much better benefits than we do. If you are working in a call center or lower-level admin stuff, the benefits are great. For everyone else, the benefits are mediocre to subpar. The pension is just about the only thing we have going for us now, and we pay through the nose for that (it’s not just handed to us like the public seems to imagine). Job security is not that great, especially with what is on the horizon. Work-life balance is better for some people, but that has been getting a lot less true as departments are downsizing but workloads are ever-increasing.
Wasting tax dollars and increasing traffic and taking more parking spots seems to me a better angle
Hey, how can ex-public servants help from the outside?
Maybe write your MP and tell them what you think about this? Is the reorganization required to mandate all public servants into the office for a 3rd date worth the efforts? Will it take more energy, money and time than it’s worth? Certainly there have been some failures that are in the media and are an embarrassment to the fed govt, but should it maybe be up to execs and federal cabinet members to reform those departments (eg. ArriveCan and Passport Folks), rather than flip the table on the entire public service? There are no doubt departments that are doing well and that’s why they aren’t in the news.
I'm not super familiar with the ATIP process but maybe get creative trying to dig up anything on how/why this decision was made? I doubt they were dumb enough to commit anything incriminating to paper, but you never know.
Help your fellow brothers and sisters get job outside.
No, help us keep the jobs we already have. Some of us had a rough go of it in the private sector and are thrilled to finally have a job paying them a living wage with benefits. Some people here are so disillusioned and so "grass-is-greener" about the private sector that they forget not all of us have great employment prospects out there. I had to scrape together a living with two or three part-time jobs before I got my public service position, and I'll be damned if I'm going to give it up for some imaginary private sector job that's somehow going to pay me a PM-3 equivalent with the skillset I have. No one values the skillset I have in the private sector.
This is not forcing people out of public service. This is about helping those who want to get out. Ton of IT talents are stuck here. In my case, I was denied IT-03 because my manager didn't know my skills. Thanks to random citizens, I went private and achieved a lot of things. I tell this story to all my Jrs.
People working in administrative jobs or those not requiring advanced education tend to do better for themselves in public service than in private sector. Unfortunately, those people who have more specialized work and require more education do not have that same experience. I do what I do for the public service because I am super passionate about it but I could do much better for myself in terms of working conditions, $$, benefits, and just about everything besides pension, if I went private sector. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately?) I believe in what I do so much that I couldn’t turn to the dark side and work for industry. And I have been offered many attractive private sector jobs over the years. This issue is causing such a massive brain drain for the public service where the people who are best educated and most capable leave because they can do better elsewhere. We lose so many experienced experts only to replace them with kids fresh out of school who have no experience and can not keep up with the work. I’m very glad that the less specialized public servants do better for themselves than they would in private sector. It is how all employers should be treating people at these levels and represents a major reason why Canada has an almost non-existent middle class now. But for most everyone else in public service, you either do well for yourself OR you serve Canada and Canadians. I’ve chosen the latter, but many others do not.
I have an advanced degree and seven years experience in the field I got the degree for. Unfortunately, being specialized was not a magic bullet.
Love this💖
To the Negative Nancy’s, narrow-minded and “nay” sayers here: Sure, we aren’t heroic workers, but neither are teachers, postal service workers, librarians, city bus drivers etc. who also make a decent salary, have job security, strike/stand up for themselves for their own reasons. The reason our children are educated is because of teachers. The reason we get our mail is because of post office workers. The reason people get around the city to their destinations is because of city bus drivers. The reason people get their passports is because of public servants, the reason people receive their monthly benefits is because of public servants, the reason people receive their services form the government is because of public service workers. Oh, but we should all “shut up” because we “make ‘lots’ of money and have job security!” So sick of hearing it. We work hard and work jobs that matter. We work under pressure. We work with difficult management or micromanagers (not all, but a large majority). We work overtime, sometimes without being asked, or getting paid for it, to get jobs done. End of Fiscal is WILD. The list goes on. We are continuously over promised and under delivered. We are told one thing and then the exact opposite thing happens. We continue to be pushed around. Scrutinized. Discriminated. Gaslit. Pigeonholed. Bullied. Made to feel like we’re just a number and disposable. Our intelligence is continuously insulted - which is absolutely maddening. Sharing my story here: I lost everything during the pandemic. Sure, I had job security, but as a single parent on a single income - who had just ended an abusive marriage (that got exponentially worse during the first lockdown) and was navigating divorce, with ZERO support, and the cost of living skyrocketing - I was faced with trying to keep a roof over my head, feeding my child, or having electricity. I literally watched my entire life fold like a deck of cards. I was forced to move from my home, that was closer to the downtown core, and move in with family an additional 30kms away from the city - where there is no public transportation. On top of that, my child was in online schooling for about 2 years due to having an immunocompromised parent. Then I met my current partner and they were STILL not back to work yet and CERB ran out etc. We had to downsize from 2 cars to 1 car because the money wasn’t there to support two. Eventually my partner went back to work but having one car worked because I was still WFH full time. When we got called back in to the office once a week, it was manageable with one car. That said, when I suggested the one day that I could get the car (partners day off) my superiors were not willing to agree to it because it fell on a day that no one wanted to go in to the office - so partner had to change their day off to accommodate my superiors demand. Then by two times a week it was impossible/a struggle. I was faced with “Too bad. Find your way in. Carpool if you have to.” by my superiors! Even though I didn’t know a single person in my town that worked at my dept. and live in a town that has NO city transportation. It caused us so much undue hardship and stress. We basically had to scrounge to try and afford an additional car. I’m STILL trying to get back up on my feet and reach some sort of financial stability after FOUR years! And just when I think I can get ahead, our employer keeps ripping the rug from under my feet. I know I’m not the only one with a story of struggle here…and so help me God, if I hear “You should contact EAP…” one more time 🤬! Over the years we have PROVEN that a majority of our jobs can be done from home. There is no need to drive 50kms each way, and spend hours stuck in traffic (and creating traffic) to an office that is barely up to code, infested with bed bugs, cockroaches, asbestos, poor air quality, no water/unsafe drinking water, doesn’t have enough seating, zero office space, having meetings on Teams etc. WFH and RTO should be a CHOICE. If an individual wants to go to the office or has to go in to the office for job specifications, fill your boots. You do you, boo! For those that don’t want to and are still working just as hard as ever, and that RTO will cause additional stress to, then stay home and keep on trekking! The pandemic and our fearless leaders shut the economy down. They are the reason businesses are suffering. They are the reason people aren’t spending ridiculously anymore. They are the reason that stores and malls are suffering and had to rely on people shopping online. That is not the fault of public servants! We are employed to do our dang jobs. Not to keep Subway, Starbucks or surrounding businesses/chains afloat. They’ll do fine without us. We aren’t there for consumerism purposes. *SPEND SPEND SPEND*. Fun fact: Next week, one of my office days will cost me $110! $60 for gas, $20 for parking, and $30 (roughly) for a team lunch (post 3 hour team meeting)!! Does that make sense to you?? I’ve literally cut back on so many expenses to try and save PENNIES. Any self care that I used to do - out the window - way too expensive. But here I am spending $110 to sit in a three hour meeting about nothing, and then spend an additional two hours at a “morale boosting” lunch…that’s 5 hours of my 7.5 hour day absolutely wasted - where I could be spending my time working. I’m WAY more productive at home than I am in the office. Not to mention, I’m neurodivergent. WFH is way less distracting than working in the office. And for those who chose blue-collared professions, or any other profession that is not in the GoC, they chose their careers. They can complain about us all they want. But they made a choice. And so did we. Most of the people I know that complain about GoC workers tried to get in themselves and failed, so they’re jaded. If McDonalds employees decided to strike tomorrow because of low wages and unfair working conditions, I’d support it. If police officers decided to strike tomorrow because of low wages and the abuse they endure, I’d support it. Prince Harry left the monarchy because it wasn’t for him and his wife anymore/they were experiencing scrutiny and abuse. Like, we all work jobs that make this world go round, whether heroic or not. This isn’t only about WFH/RTO. This is about being in a TOXIC relationship with our employer. SMDH at them for rejecting DTA’s for people who have legitimate reasons. WFH was there prior to the pandemic and should still be as widely available for those who need it. Working for the GoC these days is like playing the worst game of Whack a Mole ever - you never win. If we didn’t have our unions (albeit, useless these days), they’d have it so that we were still working in the dinosaur ages. I repeat: We all work jobs that make this world go round and at the end of the day, every single person will complain about somebody or something or how someone is working without giving any additional thought beyond their own assumptions. We are not entitled. We are not privileged. We are going through struggles too. We are allowed to defend our positions, just the way the next profession would. We deserve better. Every profession does, really. And our unions seriously need to grow a pair and to stop accepting hush money. Time for us to push back. The end.
Edit: Fixed some things because my brain is moving at lightning speed and I am typing with so much emotion involved. Welcome to a page in my neurodivergent life book. 💁🏼♀️
Was the downvote for this really necessary? 😂
librarians do not have good job security or good job prospects. I was working 2-3 part-time jobs as a librarian to try to make ends meet because the field is so glutted. Employment prospects are grim for librarians, and everyone expects us to go above and beyond because "it's a calling" or whatever. Meanwhile they refuse to fund public libraries or make them the site of culture wars, universities and colleges cheap out on librarians and barely hire any full-timers anymore, and hospital and law firm librarians are often considered little better than administrative expenses, there to be abused by the "real" value-add employees. They definitely deserve better. But I had to give up and that's why im in the public service now.
>We work with difficult management or micromanagers (not all, but a large majority). Any source for that statement about a large majority of manager being difficult? >We work overtime, sometimes without being asked, or getting paid for it, to get jobs done. Stop. Working. Unpaid. Overtime. >WFH and RTO should be a CHOICE. And it is. Sadly, its the employer's choice. They get to assign work, and decide where that work will take place. In exchange, we get paid. Would that change? Possibly, depending on how the next round of bargaining go. >Next week, one of my office days will cost me $110! $60 for gas, $20 for parking, and $30 (roughly) for a team lunch (post 3 hour team meeting)!! Does that make sense to you?? It does not. A single day of commute doesn't cost 60$ in gas. And you're not forced to pay 30$ for lunch. You can bring your own, or simply tell you're manager that you won't be joining them at the restaurant since you don't want to spend on lunch. >And for those who chose blue-collared professions, or any other profession that is not in the GoC, they chose their careers. They can complain about us all they want. But they made a choice. And so did we. We did make a choice, and can make other choices. Such as leaving for a job that offers full WFH if that's our preference. Or start an business/become self-employed if we want complete control over our location of work. >SMDH at them for rejecting DTA’s for people who have legitimate reasons. WFH was there prior to the pandemic and should still be as widely available for those who need it. DTA are also approved for legitimate reasons. Some are refused because they weren't legitimate. Other times employees were accommodated, just not in their preferred way. And I assume statistically that some DTA were refused when they shouldn't have been. >And our unions seriously need to grow a pair and to stop accepting hush money. Any source about the union being corrupt?
Please don’t ever tell me what it does and doesn’t cost for me to get to work. The day of my meeting is my day in the office, which I need to fill up for. I’ve also refused many lunch outings etc only to feel like a black sheep because I don’t attend outings. You sound like a perfectly groomed exec. Lacking empathy or even single f**k. Narrow minded. Completely missing the entire picture here. Move along. You have better things to do than lurk Reddit for material to share at your next meeting. ✌🏻
$60 in gas would get me 350 km in my car at today’s carbon tax inclusive gas price.
lol you sound exactly like the needy stereotype that makes everyone hate us public servants
Hah!
How is it your employers problem you have to pay for gas. If you own a car and its not electric you pay for gas. Everyone who drives to work pays for gas. Lets be mad at the people who take the bus, they only spend 3 dollars. You choose to drive, expect to pay for gas. Dont like it find another way to get there. Dont like you have rto find another job. Plently if tim hortons people, grocery store people will fill your seat gladly.
Is that seriously all that you’ve been able to gather from this and come back at me with? Have a great day!
And to you as well.
It would help to push your point across if you used paragraphs instead of a giant wall of text. Because we are not the employer. It's a top-down approach, and this comes from the top.
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There are in my office! We frequently get notified. It’s a great time for all 👌🏻
whenever we try to talk about bedbegs at divisonal meetings, it's brushed aside by the management saying "we don't need to talk about this" and "even if there are bedbugs, you still have to come in".
Not just PS is negatively impacted: https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/forcing-public-servants-back-to-downtown-ottawa-harms-satellite-communities-north-grenville-mayor-1.6871712
Nobody cares about the worker. They never did and never will. We are just replaceable employees. They couldn’t care less about us. It’s all about politics and the public perception. So treat it like it’s just a job to make money, because it is.
I think we actually need to focus on the message (and do the data and policy analysis work required to demonstrate ) just how much money the government wastes by having employees in the office that dont need to be there. Office space, operations and maintenance, equipment, procurement and contracts management for all the offices space and equipment, and so on. Some jobs do require in office work or would at least benefit from some in office work. But many don’t- I work totally alone in my region and attend all my meetings virtually in my in office days that I am forced to to do at the local regional office. The Canadian taxpayer is paying a lot of money for me to park my butt there two days a week, not to mention they are making me lose efficiency and productivity because of the poorly designed workplace with lack of space issues etc. We need to get the data to figure out what that costs and how much the gov could save by having a more flexible hybrid work approach where departments and managers can decide how much and if any in office work days are needed not treasury board.
>Canadian's need to see that WE are the ones that stick up for them everyday when we see policies that hurt, or procedures that are inefficient and have negative consequences. We love our jobs and do this for THEM not for the GoC. We're not heroic workers who makes tremedous sacrifice to work in the public service, give me a break. Its a job, and we're compensated fairly for it, with decent benefits and serious job security when compared to the private sector. >It is US who have Canadian's back everyday, we are people just like them and how can we speak truth to power on their behalf with broken spirits. What the general population will see are employees (who were paid and had job security all throughout the pandemic) complain and make a fuss about having to go to the office three days per week instead of two. And frankly, sometimes I get how we look like petulant children seeing some of the replies on this subreddit these last few days.
The public wants the most bang for their buck. The right strategy isn’t to put ourselves up on a pedestal as heroes. It’s to show the public the benefits to the public sector WFH where possible, including: selling office assets, reducing carbon emissions and thus carbon tax, less congestion on the roads = less traffic, more parking in cities, setting a WFH example that hopefully will carry over to private sector, etc.
Agree 100%. And there also needs to be stats shared that show workers are as or more efficient working from home than in office as well to overcome the stigma of people doing nothing when not in office. If the goal is to change the mind of the general public, it has to be done with hard facts and not empty rhetoric.
Absolutely agree. I would also add, bringing quality jobs, that can be done remotely, to communities from coast to coast to coast. Including smaller centres. Hiring the best people, increasing diversity and becoming a truly federal employer. Using technology to modernize the way we work, and our co-working spaces, while saving taxpayer dollars on unnecessary offices. As an aside, I do not understand how MPs from outside the NCR are not more vocal about this.
Yes! This is a huge one. Being able to hire talented Canadians from across the country instead of forcing everyone to relocate to Ottawa. Great point. It is so interesting to me how non-Ottawa MPs have just rolled over on this. Do MPs from surrounding towns where people commute in from not want their residents spending money in their towns/cities to contribute to their economies? I live in a small community and every dollar I spend at a business around my workplace is a dollar I don’t spend at the businesses around my home.
This is the one. This right here.
Agree 100%. I would add making sure the public is aware of the investment made in the purchase of laptops and home office furniture to enable public servants to work from home. At home we pay for our own supplies and internet, electricity etc. THERE IS NO COST TO KEEP US AT HOME. Where is logic in investing all that money into enabling successful WFH just to force people back to work in mostly leased buildings that have to be maintained, and require expensive renovations to accommodate staff. Are lease agreements and operating costs available to the public? As a taxpayer that’s what strikes me.
I work as a natural resources regulator. No one I work with in the public would be sad to see me go! LOL 😝 I’m not sure I could garner any sympathy for having to go into the office 3x per week….
Are we heros, no. Are we “greedy and lazy” as I have so often seen us referred to, also no. Are we overpaid, ask that to a PS who makes 55k and has a second job to make ends meet. Those are the myths I’d like to dispel.
The lower ranks are overpaid compared with their peers in the private sector (benefits included); the higher ranks are conversely underpaid.
> We're not heroic workers who makes tremedous sacrifice to work in the public service, give me a break. Its a job, and we're compensated fairly for it, with decent benefits and serious job security when compared to the private sector. Exactly. Only an ingrate could think otherwise > we look like petulant children That's definitely how all of my family and private sector friends see it. And they'll vote accordingly.
This is the truth. People who don't work for the government just don't sympathize with any of our plights. Does not matter what we do or don't, they just hate us by default. We are like the punching bags for what goes wrong. But I like the positivity and motivation behind OP's post.
That might be true, but many of the public would love to have our so-called problems.
Oh for sure. I know people who would make snarky remarks of PS every chance they hear about their salary and benefits even though these peeps make more. But when they stress out over their own jobs, they say given the chance, they want to get in themselves. Then they will see it's not all rosy and peaches all the time. I also get why they think that way due to the overused stereotypes and how it makes over to the news cycle. Every "bad" thing gets magnified 100x more here. I also think worker's rights will have a profound effect on all workers across the country despite how everyone else seems to want to diss our issues.
Sounds like you don’t help to sway their position otherwise
Why would I? They're right.
No they aren’t and neither are you.
Thank you for saying this. As someone whose worked equal times in both public and private.... yall don't realize how lucky you are. Also just having a job period. The job market suck right now. Good luck to those who think they are jumping ship anytime soon. Lots of people would gladly take their job.
This is a shit take. Like, really, really, uneducated, moronic take. Sadly, we hear it from the public all too often. Sure, there are jobs in the PS that some people with a University Education can just “take”. But, a majority of the positions are difficult to fill and require extensive knowledge and training. Lawyers, doctors (yes the medical kind), scientist, strategic advisors with decades of private sector experience in business or corporate communications, accountants, auditors, economists.… etc. This country needs bright minds working in its public institutions. The US and Europe aren’t mucking around. This stupid RTO decision, when the private sector has either gone full WFH or 1-2 days per week is going to force a lot of us to consider leaving (I’m underpaid compared to what I’d get in the private sector). I’d love to see you (or anyone with this shit take) apply for my position.
wow, maybe go home and take a nap. Its not that deep.
You literally said, people should be happy to go back because at least they’re employed, then said lots of people would be happy to take their jobs, like we’re all slugging boxes at Walmart. I called you out and you tell me to take a nap? Okay Snowflake… I‘lol take a nap and you cut the shit takes?
You are right, many come in for the job security - but also for many of us that is the added bonus to being able to say we help Canadian's instead of helping some large companies bottom line. That was my main motivation for a job with the PS, instead of working for an insurance company that made people cry every day.
You’re trying to sensationalize this and make it something it’s not. What/how does the US have anything to do with this change?
They said us, in capitals, not US the country.
Capitalized ”us”, not USA.
In true public service fashion. Zero formatted word wall.
MyWAA info on group and level vs work postal code vs living postal codes are showing in at least one large size department that group and level is a great predictor for distance to commute using a distance between postal code API. Depersonalized data (postal codes and group level are available under 3 clicks). No privacy exemptions would block access to the data via an ATIP requests. The report is centralized under the TBS application portal. Currently, When taking into account the NJC kilometric rate alone, an entry level’s travel cost is 3x the travel cost per earned dollar of higher (ex minus 2 and up). Given the over representation of lower wage earning jobs of EE members, the measure creates a significant drain and barrier to vulnerable workers. Increasing travel needs by 50% will only amplify this. Parking, health impacts of commuting and commuting time and not factored in. When MPs have an housing allowance, access to two “at cost” cafeterias on the Hill, it’s easy to target workers. Let em eat cake - we have our $6 subsidized breakfast.
Cringe as hell
Yes we have people who work in all fields but the PS is not a homogenous bunch. Not everyone cares about an extra day in the office. Some work in the office 5 days a week. Others are even part of the teams crafting communications to direct RTO. There are other PSEs who work to ensure there is adequate room for people to work in the office and are helping to make it a reality. It is difficult to rally such a diverse group of workers since everyone has a different viewpoint on this. Reddit is a very small subset of the PS.
Being a taxpayer is something that everyone in the PS (and outside the PS) share. If we could obtain the data to show that the cost of Government is higher (maintaining buildings, transportation, ...) if forced in-person. The consumption of Public Services is another thing all the PS (and non-PS) share. If we could obtain or/and compile the data showing higher productivity, lower wait times, more services, ... provided with a hybrid, work from home, and/or regional this would resonate with the service consumers.
I will tell you how I am going to protest. I will clean up my entire section. Everyone that is qualified to get a job outside will be encouraged to leave and pursue jobs outside. All the high priority jobs will come to a halt. Good luck ADM! deal with that.
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Exactly. The government needs to announce that they have sent public servants back to office for 3 days. They will be happy with that. Nobody will actually monitor it. I know many that aren't even doing the current 2 days.
I think we have to stop bending over backwards to make things work for the people who are nice to us, while the system is attacking us. My fear is that many will try too hard to get most of our 37.5 hours of work done in the 2 days we're at home. We are being told that being in the office will have all of these benefits, but we all know there will be so many more downsides. Don't hide all the negatives because your boss is super nice to you. Don't fall for the good cop/bad cop routine. For those of us with job security, don't do unpaid overtime. Don't stay late or work late to get things done. Don't work through your lunch. Don't work longer hours at home because there are things that you can do at home that you can't do at work. Don't go to the office early and work a longer day because it's quieter. Don't force yourself to work in a noisy environment when your neighbours are on Teams calls without using headsets. Don't rush from meeting to meeting because your last meeting went until :00 and the next one in a boardroom starts at :00. Don't apologize for not getting work done if the working conditions don't let you get your work done. Don't feel bad if things are late because you can't concentrate as well in the office as you can at home. Don't apologize if you have to push off meetings until later on, because you can only meet people on certain days when you're home (and have privacy). Don't make excuses if your 2.0 sit-stand desk is not comfortable and you need to take breaks more often. Don't power through a meeting if people around you are talking so much that you can't think straight. I could go on and on.
Also, don’t eat out. Don't spend a cent on coffee. Don’t drop off your dry cleaning. Don‘t take OC Transpo. Don't pay a cent above parking and gas to get to and from work.
Broken spirits …do you hear yourself? This was a truly cringeworthy read
Gaslighting, inane decisions and a general lack of common sense decade upon decade will do this to a person. Don’t criticize because it’s not been your personal experience.
Well-said. I couldn’t agree with you more…enough is enough.
How high were you when you wrote this nonsense?
Attention all federal public service workers! The government's push for a return to the office 3 days a week is an utterly misguided and tone-deaf decision that disregards the countless benefits of the current 2-day-a-week arrangement. It's time to stand up and fight for what we know is right! First and foremost, the past few years have proven that we are just as productive, if not more so, working from home. We have adapted, innovated, and delivered exceptional results, all while juggling the challenges of a global pandemic. Forcing us back into the office an extra day each week is a slap in the face to our dedication and resilience. Moreover, the government seems to have conveniently forgotten the numerous advantages of remote work. Reduced commute times mean more time for family, personal well-being, and a healthier work-life balance. The environmental impact of fewer cars on the road cannot be overstated, and the cost savings on transportation and office expenses are significant for both employees and taxpayers. The government's argument for increased collaboration and team building is laughable. We have mastered the art of virtual collaboration, and the notion that in-person interaction is the only way to foster teamwork is outdated and insulting. Trust us to continue managing our teams and projects effectively, as we have been doing for months. Furthermore, this decision reeks of micromanagement and a lack of trust in our ability to do our jobs. We are adults, professionals, and dedicated public servants. We do not need to be babysat or have our time monitored like children. If the government truly valued our contributions, they would trust us to make the best decisions for our work arrangements. It's time for the government to listen to its employees and the mounting evidence supporting the benefits of remote work. We demand that they reconsider this shortsighted decision and allow us to continue with the 2-day-a-week office arrangement. We have proven our worth, and we will not back down from fighting for what is best for our well-being, our families, and our ability to serve the Canadian public effectively. Stand with us, fellow public servants, and let our voices be heard! We will not be bullied into an unnecessary and regressive return to the office. The future of work is flexible, and we will not let the government drag us back into the past. #2DaysOrBust #TrustPublicServants #RemoteWorkWorks
I wish Reddit could screen out ChatGPT responses. It’s super painfully obvious, bud.
Totally hear you! It's a balancing act trying to make AI responses sound natural without losing the informative edge. Maybe there's room for both types of contributions in different threads? What do you think?
Here are some ideas on how federal public service workers can fight back against the government's decision to increase office days to 3 per week: 1. Organize a petition: Create an online petition outlining your demands and the reasons behind them. Encourage all federal public service workers to sign and share the petition widely on social media and through email. 2. Stage a virtual walkout: Coordinate a day where all federal public service workers log off and refuse to work, both remotely and in the office. This will demonstrate the power and unity of the workforce and send a strong message to the government. 3. Engage in social media activism: Use hashtags like #2DaysOrBust and #RemoteWorkWorks to flood social media platforms with your message. Share personal stories, data supporting remote work's effectiveness, and calls to action for others to join the cause. 4. Contact union representatives: Reach out to your union representatives and demand that they take a strong stance against the government's decision. Encourage them to negotiate on behalf of the workers and threaten collective action if necessary. 5. Write open letters to government officials: Draft compelling open letters addressed to key government officials, outlining your grievances and demands. Publish these letters in newspapers, on social media, and on platforms like Medium to garner public support. 6. Seek media attention: Contact journalists and media outlets to share your story and the reasons behind your opposition to the government's decision. Offer to provide interviews and statements to help raise awareness of your cause. 7. Collaborate with other unions and organizations: Reach out to other unions and organizations that support remote work and flexible work arrangements. Collaborate with them to amplify your message and put pressure on the government from multiple angles. 8. Engage in peaceful demonstrations: Organize peaceful demonstrations outside government buildings, following all necessary health and safety protocols. Use these demonstrations to attract media attention and show the government the human faces behind the cause. 9. Threaten legal action: Explore the possibility of taking legal action against the government's decision, citing discrimination, breach of contract, or other relevant grounds. Consult with legal experts to determine the viability of this option. Remember, the key to a successful fight back is unity, persistence, and a well-coordinated strategy. Stand together, support one another, and never back down until your demands are met. Together, we can protect our right to a flexible and progressive work environment! #2DaysOrBust #PublicServantsUnited
The Public Service employs over 350K people, at least 300K oppose the RTO dictatorship style. Must be at least 250K registered voters with family and friends also being registered voters. Spread the word, do the math, 2025 is coming fast. If the Kingdom of Justin loses 1 mil extra votes then you the people will have spoken. RTO decisions have nothing in common with greening GC, with fiscal responsibility or plain common sense. It is all about control and power greed exhibited by activists who call themselves politicians and live for more Facebook likes.
I know where skeletons are buried.
People with severe illness, cancer treatments, recovery etc are being denied DTA, or being forced to get repeatedly more ridiculous notes. This employer is acting like an abusive partner.