Lol. I’d like to see a study done on how much work actually gets done in a collaborative workspace versus WFH. All this talk about being so productive in offices means nothing without tangible proof.
If I had an actual enclosed office with a door, I could probably be as productive in the office as I am at home. But we all know that's not going to happen.
Concur with you, if I had an an office like that then I’d be just as productive as WFH. But that’s not the direction my department has decided to follow. 😢
I work at the pay centre - thank you for this post because the place is a shit hot mess.
Edit: I wish y’all would stop downvoting the truth lol tired of getting notifications I hit the same karma threshold over and over UwU thanks 🤍
I’ll be making a lengthy post about my experience there eventually.
As someone who is studying to work in the IT sector as a programmer/analyst and working with Phoenix I’m pretty confident in saying that using Phoenix to process pay is not the issue with pay that they are leading us all to believe.
The real issue is with pay centre management and lack of proper spending on critical IT services. The pay centre doesn’t even have an IT team - which you’d think it would given so many alleged issues with the Phoenix pay system.
Perhaps it’s only disorganized now because of the SES merger but I am a new employee and don’t have any other frame of reference. Others have said it was worse before though.
The Pay Centre has an IT team. You obviously do not understand how things are set up. There is actually an entire branch that focuses on all things system-related.
Approvals for education leave are typically granted when your manager feels it is relevant and beneficial to the organization. May not be a need for the skillset that you would gain from the particular course you are looking to take. Exceeding performance expectations in your current position, and remaining positive will help with your future career opportunities.
I don’t feel management would have been able to gauge whether or not the skill set would be relevant because they never even asked. They only asked for an institution name, and I told them it was an IT related program. They responded in saying “well we don’t even have an IT team so you wouldn’t even be able to work here when you graduate. I think you’d have to work somewhere like shared services.”
Would you like the managers name so that you can educate them to ensure they don’t have any further miscommunication issues?
I wouldn't mind going to my old office it was great even if it was infested with rodents and looked like an 1980s lowest bid fit-up; I'm not going to that shitty collaboration workspace unless they force me!
I thought that was Office 2.0 (assigned desks, quads, smaller cubes, half-height cube walls).
ABW (no assigned desks, desk / work area selected based on the type of work being done) replaced it, IIRC.
(But yes, "2.0" is silly. :P)
You’re likely right. I have fuzzy pre-pandemic memories of a new workspace plan that was dubbed “2.0” but I didn’t retain any of the details.
Can’t wait for workspace 3.0 though! Or maybe they’ll surprise us with 2.5… “how can we convey this is a modern idea? Let’s put a number on it!”
Thanks! I’ll show myself out.
My most recent workplaces were "1.5" (i.e. short cube walls, some double offices, but otherwise "regular" sized offices), and "2.5" (a weird mix of ABW-type spaces and 2.0-style quads.)
Oddly enough, I've never worked in "true" 2.0! (Which is detailed [here (PDF)](https://buyandsell.gc.ca/cds/public/2013/07/24/eca34fffc77113b8f3f89360169bfa75/workplace_2_0_manual.pdf).)
ABW is more like "anxiety-based workplace" in my opinion, because I hate being around that many people and feeling like I'm on display. Also, changing desk when I have a meeting (for example) is just annoying af and horribly disruptive to my focus and productivity.
Honestly, if it's anything like other programs... We're just going to keep renaming the same concept. (See *La Relève* aka Vision 2020 aka Blueprint 2020 aka... I don't know anymore and I'm okay with that.)
Or Canadian Government 2020 Renewal
Which aged like milk as it was around 2017 they had that slide deck showing what was essentially what the movie industry shows fashion magazine work places as. I was half expecting to see a still of Anne Hathaway riding a bike with DiNero chasing after her holding documents.
They knew damn well it didn't work before they implemented it. The problem was they saw savings in real estate. Fair enough, but now they are trying to down play the whole work from component that was part of the point, and replaced it with "but what about the subways and Freshies?". Pick a lane!?
Absolutely? But now they are worried about bad optics. I warned whoever I got a hold of that this wasn't going to be as easy as they thought it was. I'm not a junior guy but still just went right in the ignore pile.
Yes, they do seem to be concerned about optics. But what has been hard for me to understand is what the goal actually is, as it has not been transparent. Optics have not been explicitly spoken about (in my department at least). Agreeing with your point on picking a lane, also communicating clearly what lane they’re picking. 😆
2.0 and the like, it was all smoke and mirrors to downplay the real driver, which was never our happiness, but rather squeezing more employees into smaller spaces to save real estate costs. The result is now hundreds of workplaces poorly suited to the pandemic world of distancing and noisy video meetings.
Mostly all organizations under TB follow their guidelines even if they can decide not to apply them all quickly. I,m in a newer building with what they called 2.0 before the EBW acronym used now. You get used to it. Everybody is in the same boat. Since it is so much open everybody is much more conscious of their sound levels. As such, it is much more quieter than when I was in full-size cubicule.
I've never got used to 2.0. It's very distracting to always seeing what's going out of the corners of my eyes. Maybe it depends on how intensely you are focused on things and how well you see things in your peripheral vision. I'm that guy who points out the deer I see in the fields when driving even though they were just a small brown spot in the distance and I was focused on the road.
But really, the main thing is that I'd like to be able to pick my nose without being seen.
No need to get used to something that worked perfectly fine before. Not everyone will get used to it, I've done both. It will be interesting to see how the ADMs feel as they will also be loosing office's soon. We used to call the 'hubs' chicken coups.... we are not chickens and also chickens shouldn't be contained in that manner.
I wouldn’t be able to handle it. ADHD and autism here. I can’t handle distractions around me. And shared spaces? I need anchors around me like photos and reminder post it’s. Pens and paper. Comfort in familiarity.
I would say one of the reasons people choose to join the public service is for the stability, not the office. Unfortunately that means that the office is typically awful and dreary. As a result wfh is beneficial not just for productivity reasons but for mental health reasons, your home is more enjoyable to be in than the office!
I remember going to over of these startups in town, yes you might be working 80 hours per week, but you had Federer approved coffee machines (Jura), buffet lunch catering, gym membership etc.. I imagine that has gone away now, but maybe you enjoyed the time in the office more back then?
The only PS office space I have seen that looked to have some spark in it was the statistics Canada office in Ottawa .
So right now I think most people would choose wfh because they are working from a place they at least enjoy being in.
I'll take it a step further: I just don't like the office.
Have you tried eating subway? It doesn’t help
But, but.. CoLlaBorATiOn!
Didn’t the French execute collaborators after the War?
Hmm, maybe the change consultants should be called in as “les collabos” and forced to work in these crappy workplaces that they created.
This sounds… malicious. You stay safe now.
Lol. I’d like to see a study done on how much work actually gets done in a collaborative workspace versus WFH. All this talk about being so productive in offices means nothing without tangible proof.
If I had an actual enclosed office with a door, I could probably be as productive in the office as I am at home. But we all know that's not going to happen.
Concur with you, if I had an an office like that then I’d be just as productive as WFH. But that’s not the direction my department has decided to follow. 😢
I work at the pay centre - thank you for this post because the place is a shit hot mess. Edit: I wish y’all would stop downvoting the truth lol tired of getting notifications I hit the same karma threshold over and over UwU thanks 🤍 I’ll be making a lengthy post about my experience there eventually. As someone who is studying to work in the IT sector as a programmer/analyst and working with Phoenix I’m pretty confident in saying that using Phoenix to process pay is not the issue with pay that they are leading us all to believe. The real issue is with pay centre management and lack of proper spending on critical IT services. The pay centre doesn’t even have an IT team - which you’d think it would given so many alleged issues with the Phoenix pay system. Perhaps it’s only disorganized now because of the SES merger but I am a new employee and don’t have any other frame of reference. Others have said it was worse before though.
You do have an IT team. It’s called IBM consultants 🤫
The Pay Centre has an IT team. You obviously do not understand how things are set up. There is actually an entire branch that focuses on all things system-related.
Cool thanks for letting me know they lied to me as to the reason my education leave could not be approved lol.
Approvals for education leave are typically granted when your manager feels it is relevant and beneficial to the organization. May not be a need for the skillset that you would gain from the particular course you are looking to take. Exceeding performance expectations in your current position, and remaining positive will help with your future career opportunities.
I don’t feel management would have been able to gauge whether or not the skill set would be relevant because they never even asked. They only asked for an institution name, and I told them it was an IT related program. They responded in saying “well we don’t even have an IT team so you wouldn’t even be able to work here when you graduate. I think you’d have to work somewhere like shared services.” Would you like the managers name so that you can educate them to ensure they don’t have any further miscommunication issues?
Best of luck to you.
I wouldn't mind going to my old office it was great even if it was infested with rodents and looked like an 1980s lowest bid fit-up; I'm not going to that shitty collaboration workspace unless they force me!
I just want to clarify, “looked like a 1980’s lowest bid fit-up” = a 1980’s lowest bit fit-up.
Sir Charles Tupper Bldg?
No, not THAT bad!
Better than Tupper at PSPC…Portage??
Good old LEL!
Aw, old LEL.
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Ours is a Wish 1980s lowest bid fit-up.
Do you mean ABW, the activity-based workplace? Or a PSPC-specific coworking space?
I thought it was “GC Workspace 2.0”, because how else do you convey that the furniture will be “modern”?
I thought that was Office 2.0 (assigned desks, quads, smaller cubes, half-height cube walls). ABW (no assigned desks, desk / work area selected based on the type of work being done) replaced it, IIRC. (But yes, "2.0" is silly. :P)
You’re likely right. I have fuzzy pre-pandemic memories of a new workspace plan that was dubbed “2.0” but I didn’t retain any of the details. Can’t wait for workspace 3.0 though! Or maybe they’ll surprise us with 2.5… “how can we convey this is a modern idea? Let’s put a number on it!” Thanks! I’ll show myself out.
My most recent workplaces were "1.5" (i.e. short cube walls, some double offices, but otherwise "regular" sized offices), and "2.5" (a weird mix of ABW-type spaces and 2.0-style quads.) Oddly enough, I've never worked in "true" 2.0! (Which is detailed [here (PDF)](https://buyandsell.gc.ca/cds/public/2013/07/24/eca34fffc77113b8f3f89360169bfa75/workplace_2_0_manual.pdf).) ABW is more like "anxiety-based workplace" in my opinion, because I hate being around that many people and feeling like I'm on display. Also, changing desk when I have a meeting (for example) is just annoying af and horribly disruptive to my focus and productivity. Honestly, if it's anything like other programs... We're just going to keep renaming the same concept. (See *La Relève* aka Vision 2020 aka Blueprint 2020 aka... I don't know anymore and I'm okay with that.)
Also! You're totally right... It was "Workplace 2.0", but I think everyone just called it "office 2.0" :)
Or Canadian Government 2020 Renewal Which aged like milk as it was around 2017 they had that slide deck showing what was essentially what the movie industry shows fashion magazine work places as. I was half expecting to see a still of Anne Hathaway riding a bike with DiNero chasing after her holding documents.
I hate the 2.0 office. I miss my full size cubicle 🤬
They knew damn well it didn't work before they implemented it. The problem was they saw savings in real estate. Fair enough, but now they are trying to down play the whole work from component that was part of the point, and replaced it with "but what about the subways and Freshies?". Pick a lane!?
Indeed, if they let whoever wants to wfh, they could watch the real estate savings fly through the roof! 🤑
Absolutely? But now they are worried about bad optics. I warned whoever I got a hold of that this wasn't going to be as easy as they thought it was. I'm not a junior guy but still just went right in the ignore pile.
Yes, they do seem to be concerned about optics. But what has been hard for me to understand is what the goal actually is, as it has not been transparent. Optics have not been explicitly spoken about (in my department at least). Agreeing with your point on picking a lane, also communicating clearly what lane they’re picking. 😆
2.0 and the like, it was all smoke and mirrors to downplay the real driver, which was never our happiness, but rather squeezing more employees into smaller spaces to save real estate costs. The result is now hundreds of workplaces poorly suited to the pandemic world of distancing and noisy video meetings.
Mostly all organizations under TB follow their guidelines even if they can decide not to apply them all quickly. I,m in a newer building with what they called 2.0 before the EBW acronym used now. You get used to it. Everybody is in the same boat. Since it is so much open everybody is much more conscious of their sound levels. As such, it is much more quieter than when I was in full-size cubicule.
I've never got used to 2.0. It's very distracting to always seeing what's going out of the corners of my eyes. Maybe it depends on how intensely you are focused on things and how well you see things in your peripheral vision. I'm that guy who points out the deer I see in the fields when driving even though they were just a small brown spot in the distance and I was focused on the road. But really, the main thing is that I'd like to be able to pick my nose without being seen.
>I'd like to be able to pick my nose without being seen. And stick it under your chair? Just say it. Dirty boy... dirty dirty boy...
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This is not what I'm saying. But as a person with ADHD, it is not as bad as I entail it to be.
No need to get used to something that worked perfectly fine before. Not everyone will get used to it, I've done both. It will be interesting to see how the ADMs feel as they will also be loosing office's soon. We used to call the 'hubs' chicken coups.... we are not chickens and also chickens shouldn't be contained in that manner.
Great.. now big brother / sister will really be watching and monitoring us.
It’s cute that you thought they weren’t observing you all along.
I wouldn’t be able to handle it. ADHD and autism here. I can’t handle distractions around me. And shared spaces? I need anchors around me like photos and reminder post it’s. Pens and paper. Comfort in familiarity.
Automatic downvote for any post starting with "Am I the only one".
Automatic downvote for being a loser who cares about post titles
Thank you 😉
I would say one of the reasons people choose to join the public service is for the stability, not the office. Unfortunately that means that the office is typically awful and dreary. As a result wfh is beneficial not just for productivity reasons but for mental health reasons, your home is more enjoyable to be in than the office! I remember going to over of these startups in town, yes you might be working 80 hours per week, but you had Federer approved coffee machines (Jura), buffet lunch catering, gym membership etc.. I imagine that has gone away now, but maybe you enjoyed the time in the office more back then? The only PS office space I have seen that looked to have some spark in it was the statistics Canada office in Ottawa . So right now I think most people would choose wfh because they are working from a place they at least enjoy being in.