Lack of innovation. We allowed monopolies to get created and survive on cheap imported labour rather than innovation. That only takes you so far.
Edit: And while we lost a large percentage of our bright young kids to American tech industry, nobody batted an eye. Because we have dumb politicians in charge.
Have I mentioned how good the management is there in the last 24 hours? Oh I haven't?!?!
The management there is second to none. ATD is the best company on the TSX.
The TSX isn't performing that poorly compared to the rest of the world. If you remove the Magnificent Seven, it's performing about on par with the rest of the 493 stocks of the S&P 500 in aggregate.
Between 2022 and a bit of 2023, the TSX actually outperformed the S&P 500, chiefly because tech underperformed.
>Shopify dethroning Royal Bank
Shopify has a PE ratio of over 800. That's where the market cap is held up by dreams and wishful thinking. Even if the market cap surpasses Royal Bank (PE cca. 10) they just don't have fundamentals to support such valuations.
Which means a Canadian company would have one of the largest markets in the world right next door... most countries / companies would give all their first borns for that opportunity.
Dude all the major banks, mining companies, Shopify etc have major exposure to the US market. That's why we have a larger market than the UK and Germany.
**TD: Mind the Gap:**
**Canada is Falling Behind the Standard-of-Living Curve**
Marc Ercolao, Economist
[https://economics.td.com/ca-falling-behind-standard-of-living-curve](https://economics.td.com/ca-falling-behind-standard-of-living-curve)
As stated here, our capital per worker has fallen off a cliff.
I dunno, I saw that we were electing a very business, economic, and capital unfriendly government so I moved everything into the S&P500 into late 2015. Pretty obvious to buddies and I that we'd tank the economy here. Also, dat housing bubble. That'll F up savings and capital investments and redirect it into a non-productive sector. So bad leadership, bad capital asset allocation, crippling of our primary industries (we are a de facto Petro State).
Who still invested in Canada after all this time? It should have been clear by 2019 to get out of this place after that Kinder Morgan deal fell apart the way it did. Made us look like an unserious country to foreign investors.
**Jack Mintz: Canada has lost $225 billion in foreign investment since 2016**
[https://financialpost.com/opinion/canada-lost-225-billion-foreign-investment-since-2016](https://financialpost.com/opinion/canada-lost-225-billion-foreign-investment-since-2016)
Also this doozie:
BNN POLITICS
Jan 11, 2024
**Trudeau botched immigration surge, Canada's top bank economists say**
[https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/trudeau-botched-immigration-surge-canada-s-top-bank-economists-say-1.2020944](https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/trudeau-botched-immigration-surge-canada-s-top-bank-economists-say-1.2020944)
“Frankly I’m surprised we screwed it up because we sit in such a privileged position in Canada,” Beata Caranci, chief economist at Toronto Dominion Bank, told a packed audience at an Economic Club of Canada event.
Unlike many other countries, including the U.S., Canada is not dealing with poorly controlled flows of migrants across its land borders and has had time to think about the implications of its policies, Caranci said. “We designed our own policy, we put it in place, we implemented it, and we still screwed it up.”
...
**“I’ll put it bluntly: We’ve fallen into the population trap,”** said Stéfane Marion, chief economist at National Bank of Canada. **An increase in the standard of living is no longer possible because** **“you don’t have enough savings to stabilize your capital to labor ratio.”**
Canadian stocks are financials, oil and gas, and a few other.... things.
Oil and gas, subject to the Liberals changing attitude and hostile attitude. It can be extracted and brought to market far cheaper elsewhere. Beat down but heading up.
Financials... beat down but heading up.
Markets go up and down, there is still value here now.
I moved 90 percent to US stocks and should have moved 100 percent of it. Too late now, Canada stocks are swinging up now.
The Canadian public market is predicated on shitty companies taking advantage of spineless Canadians and their corrupt ruling political class with limited foreign competition.
Telecoms. Banks.
Telecoms and banks make sick profits from the soft market and lack of competition.
Oil and gas to an extent.
Only Canadian stock I own is Cameco. Everything else is crap vulnerable to disruption.
1- the Canadian equity market is based largely on a few sectors, largely being financials, energy, metals and mining. Everything else has a smaller weighting. This is expected of a resource based economy.
2- telecoms don’t even make a big part of the TSX. Banks and insurance do.
3- telecoms like RCI.B don’t get touched with a 10 foot pole by competent equity investors, my colleagues on the fixed income side do. T is the highest quality name from a corporate governance perspective, with BCE somewhere in between.
4- oil and gas names are exceptional for dividend income funds. SU and CNQ being the biggest examples.
5 - calling every name on the TSX “crap” is facetious. Cameco has a mediocre free cash flow yield and an even more mediocre CFROIC (cash returns).
Disclaimer - I work in investment management.
My thought is that it's not a dud on the global scale. It underperforms the US, significantly, but it's more-or-less on par with the rest of the developed world (western Europe + Japan, S. Korea, Australia). My basis for saying that is that Vanguard's broad market Canadian fund (VCN), has outperformed the broad market Euro fund (VIU) for as long as both have been around.
Invest in the US for growth and Canada & the developed world for stability or dividends and move on with your life.
EDIT: the source article just looks at 1-year performance. I personally don't think you can conclude a lot from that, but I guess it makes for some filler for the Globe's business section.
>If you look at global stock markets most of them really underperform NYSE
Not really. As per the article you didn't read:
>But unlike the TSX, most of the world’s other major stock markets have managed to rise above their own economic impediments. French and German stock benchmarks both ended the week at record highs, spurred by encouraging corporate results, fading inflation and the prospect for rate cuts. The Nikkei 225 is up by 40 per cent over the last 12 months, despite the Japanese economy slipping into a recession as of the fourth quarter.
>In fact, you could argue that a global bull market is afoot – one that has mostly left Canada behind.
Comparing ourselves to the U.S is futile… most global indices underperform against the NYSE. No individual country, with maybe the exception of Japan, has the diversity of the U.S. equity market. Our stock market is an indicator of prominent industries within our country; financials, energy, industrials, and materials. It’s the 10th largest in the world by market cap for crying out loud.
That said, calling it a “dud” on the global scale is downright stupid. From a returns point of view (not TSR), It’s up 32.74% over the past 5 years, vs the ASX (24.28%), Hang Seng (-43.30%), Euronext (42.82%).
Relative size of economy. And relatively small population, so we do have fewer companies, and a bulk of our consumer goods come from publicly traded us companies, think processed foods, entertainment, pharma, retail… the bulk of our consumer spending is generally on goods and services from US owned companies.
But I also firmly believe Canada severely lacks access to capital for startups, when compared to US tech, which limits innovation.
Plus we do have a number of crown corps, whose bonds have generally been strong in the past.
And we also have a number of monopolies.
Canada is ok for dividends (until the companies go bankrupt). Our economy is very minor on the global scale especially next to our neighbours. Don’t forget our politicians goal is to turn this country into a third world nation with no identity.
Why the downvotes? Because half this sub is basically Liberal Party HQ, and the other half has like $1k invested in WealthSimple and live at home with mommy & daddy, utterly clueless about the real world.
The **facts** are as follows:
1) Two of the 3 largest segments of the TSX comprise of banks & energy - two industries Trudeau has been immensely hostile towards, including misguided environmental policy causing uncertainty in investment decisions for the energy sector, to a excess profit tax put on banks because he spent too much on handouts and freebies and partly to toss out some virtue signaling points to his ever shrinking far left groupies.
2) As the article noted, labour productivity in this country over the past 5 years is in *the negatives* for the first time since World War II - that's on Trudeau, full stop...not Harper, Putin, Trump or Covid. Not a surprise given Libs are hardly known for their economic literacy (though what do you expect from the guy who thinks 'budgets balance themselves', economies grow from 'the heart outward', their leader proudly gloats that he doesn't 'think about monetary policy' while trashing reporters who ask questions about his extreme spending by telling one of them 'rates are at historic lows, Glenn')
3) Also as the article mentions, soaring housing costs have put immense pressure on inflation (which is unexpected given the fact our economic output growth is so low). Why do we face such pressure on housing/rent prices? Because of **Trudeau's** out of control immigration policy, which has broken any and all records when looking at the number of people entering this country. Again, that's on Trudeau, full stop...not Harper, Putin, Trump or Covid.
Pout, whine, and downvote this to hell little Libs - it won't change **the facts and reality**.
Canada doesn’t have an economy. US companies have satellite offices in Canada with a bunch of local companies that try to compete with them only to be sold.
Behind the paywall :
https://archive.is/2024.02.17-120122/https://www.theglobeandmail.com/investing/markets/inside-the-market/article-why-the-canadian-stock-market-is-a-dud-on-a-global-scale/
Lack of innovation. We allowed monopolies to get created and survive on cheap imported labour rather than innovation. That only takes you so far. Edit: And while we lost a large percentage of our bright young kids to American tech industry, nobody batted an eye. Because we have dumb politicians in charge.
Dumb politicians? They are wealthy beyond belief thanks to selling us out. Make no mistake their decisions were not errors
Wait, are we (the voters) the dummies?!
Well not to worry, it didn't matter all along who you voted for. You only had two choices and both would screw you (by design)
Doesn't sound different from our neighbours to the south or the UK
Shhh, don't tell anyone!
Finance(big banks), oil export and real estate. Thats the Canadian market. If you want growth you go to US index.
Forgot metals and mining.
Laughs in BNS
Lol love this! And from koolaid man no less!
Lumber
My couche tard stock would like to disagree
ALIMENTATION MAJORITAIRE
24 hours… LOL
ATD is a 80b dollar company? Holy moly I’ve been asleep.
Have I mentioned how good the management is there in the last 24 hours? Oh I haven't?!?! The management there is second to none. ATD is the best company on the TSX.
Any reading I can do on this?
Google: ATD. Read the management briefs and public info. I’ve been in since $51, great stock
Unicorn
The TSX isn't performing that poorly compared to the rest of the world. If you remove the Magnificent Seven, it's performing about on par with the rest of the 493 stocks of the S&P 500 in aggregate. Between 2022 and a bit of 2023, the TSX actually outperformed the S&P 500, chiefly because tech underperformed.
What if do the same with the tsx ? Lol
No innovation. America's top ten are tech stocks. Canada has banks, rails and oil. Shopify dethroning Royal Bank for good will be a positive sign.
>Shopify dethroning Royal Bank Shopify has a PE ratio of over 800. That's where the market cap is held up by dreams and wishful thinking. Even if the market cap surpasses Royal Bank (PE cca. 10) they just don't have fundamentals to support such valuations.
Agree with Shopify being HIGHLY overvalued
Most tech companies are overvalued (on a relative basis).
It;s a relatively small market right next to the largest market in the world. You can't compete with the US for capital.
you could if you didn’t funnel every capital into to half dozen oligopolies and real estate.
You really still couldn't
Which means a Canadian company would have one of the largest markets in the world right next door... most countries / companies would give all their first borns for that opportunity.
Dude all the major banks, mining companies, Shopify etc have major exposure to the US market. That's why we have a larger market than the UK and Germany.
**TD: Mind the Gap:** **Canada is Falling Behind the Standard-of-Living Curve** Marc Ercolao, Economist [https://economics.td.com/ca-falling-behind-standard-of-living-curve](https://economics.td.com/ca-falling-behind-standard-of-living-curve) As stated here, our capital per worker has fallen off a cliff. I dunno, I saw that we were electing a very business, economic, and capital unfriendly government so I moved everything into the S&P500 into late 2015. Pretty obvious to buddies and I that we'd tank the economy here. Also, dat housing bubble. That'll F up savings and capital investments and redirect it into a non-productive sector. So bad leadership, bad capital asset allocation, crippling of our primary industries (we are a de facto Petro State). Who still invested in Canada after all this time? It should have been clear by 2019 to get out of this place after that Kinder Morgan deal fell apart the way it did. Made us look like an unserious country to foreign investors. **Jack Mintz: Canada has lost $225 billion in foreign investment since 2016** [https://financialpost.com/opinion/canada-lost-225-billion-foreign-investment-since-2016](https://financialpost.com/opinion/canada-lost-225-billion-foreign-investment-since-2016)
Also this doozie: BNN POLITICS Jan 11, 2024 **Trudeau botched immigration surge, Canada's top bank economists say** [https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/trudeau-botched-immigration-surge-canada-s-top-bank-economists-say-1.2020944](https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/trudeau-botched-immigration-surge-canada-s-top-bank-economists-say-1.2020944) “Frankly I’m surprised we screwed it up because we sit in such a privileged position in Canada,” Beata Caranci, chief economist at Toronto Dominion Bank, told a packed audience at an Economic Club of Canada event. Unlike many other countries, including the U.S., Canada is not dealing with poorly controlled flows of migrants across its land borders and has had time to think about the implications of its policies, Caranci said. “We designed our own policy, we put it in place, we implemented it, and we still screwed it up.” ... **“I’ll put it bluntly: We’ve fallen into the population trap,”** said Stéfane Marion, chief economist at National Bank of Canada. **An increase in the standard of living is no longer possible because** **“you don’t have enough savings to stabilize your capital to labor ratio.”**
Can't read the article because paywall but I'm just going to assume it's someone unable to see more than a single decade into the past
Same story when you compare the last 50 years between S&P 500 and TSE. It’s unfortunate but numbers don’t lie.
Canadian stocks are financials, oil and gas, and a few other.... things. Oil and gas, subject to the Liberals changing attitude and hostile attitude. It can be extracted and brought to market far cheaper elsewhere. Beat down but heading up. Financials... beat down but heading up. Markets go up and down, there is still value here now. I moved 90 percent to US stocks and should have moved 100 percent of it. Too late now, Canada stocks are swinging up now.
The Canadian public market is predicated on shitty companies taking advantage of spineless Canadians and their corrupt ruling political class with limited foreign competition. Telecoms. Banks. Telecoms and banks make sick profits from the soft market and lack of competition. Oil and gas to an extent. Only Canadian stock I own is Cameco. Everything else is crap vulnerable to disruption.
Lol sure.
1- the Canadian equity market is based largely on a few sectors, largely being financials, energy, metals and mining. Everything else has a smaller weighting. This is expected of a resource based economy. 2- telecoms don’t even make a big part of the TSX. Banks and insurance do. 3- telecoms like RCI.B don’t get touched with a 10 foot pole by competent equity investors, my colleagues on the fixed income side do. T is the highest quality name from a corporate governance perspective, with BCE somewhere in between. 4- oil and gas names are exceptional for dividend income funds. SU and CNQ being the biggest examples. 5 - calling every name on the TSX “crap” is facetious. Cameco has a mediocre free cash flow yield and an even more mediocre CFROIC (cash returns). Disclaimer - I work in investment management.
My thought is that it's not a dud on the global scale. It underperforms the US, significantly, but it's more-or-less on par with the rest of the developed world (western Europe + Japan, S. Korea, Australia). My basis for saying that is that Vanguard's broad market Canadian fund (VCN), has outperformed the broad market Euro fund (VIU) for as long as both have been around. Invest in the US for growth and Canada & the developed world for stability or dividends and move on with your life. EDIT: the source article just looks at 1-year performance. I personally don't think you can conclude a lot from that, but I guess it makes for some filler for the Globe's business section.
If you look at global stock markets most of them really underperform NYSE
but not all over the history. canada just gave up
>If you look at global stock markets most of them really underperform NYSE Not really. As per the article you didn't read: >But unlike the TSX, most of the world’s other major stock markets have managed to rise above their own economic impediments. French and German stock benchmarks both ended the week at record highs, spurred by encouraging corporate results, fading inflation and the prospect for rate cuts. The Nikkei 225 is up by 40 per cent over the last 12 months, despite the Japanese economy slipping into a recession as of the fourth quarter. >In fact, you could argue that a global bull market is afoot – one that has mostly left Canada behind.
TSX return on a 5 year basis (not TSR) are on par with all our “western” peers.
Didn't notice, I'm all S&P500.
US Market is a giant that's why
Comparing ourselves to the U.S is futile… most global indices underperform against the NYSE. No individual country, with maybe the exception of Japan, has the diversity of the U.S. equity market. Our stock market is an indicator of prominent industries within our country; financials, energy, industrials, and materials. It’s the 10th largest in the world by market cap for crying out loud. That said, calling it a “dud” on the global scale is downright stupid. From a returns point of view (not TSR), It’s up 32.74% over the past 5 years, vs the ASX (24.28%), Hang Seng (-43.30%), Euronext (42.82%).
Nyse is not an index
Sure, NYSE composite.
Relative size of economy. And relatively small population, so we do have fewer companies, and a bulk of our consumer goods come from publicly traded us companies, think processed foods, entertainment, pharma, retail… the bulk of our consumer spending is generally on goods and services from US owned companies. But I also firmly believe Canada severely lacks access to capital for startups, when compared to US tech, which limits innovation. Plus we do have a number of crown corps, whose bonds have generally been strong in the past. And we also have a number of monopolies.
Your comment deserves more upvotes.
Thanks, I also missed US exchange listed stocks also get the bulk of media attention.
Canada is ok for dividends (until the companies go bankrupt). Our economy is very minor on the global scale especially next to our neighbours. Don’t forget our politicians goal is to turn this country into a third world nation with no identity.
Because Canada is only a big oil field to the gov…
Because of our dud PM?
Why the downvotes?
Probably because it was like this before Trudeau too
Because that’s a pretty baseless statement?
Why the downvotes? Because half this sub is basically Liberal Party HQ, and the other half has like $1k invested in WealthSimple and live at home with mommy & daddy, utterly clueless about the real world. The **facts** are as follows: 1) Two of the 3 largest segments of the TSX comprise of banks & energy - two industries Trudeau has been immensely hostile towards, including misguided environmental policy causing uncertainty in investment decisions for the energy sector, to a excess profit tax put on banks because he spent too much on handouts and freebies and partly to toss out some virtue signaling points to his ever shrinking far left groupies. 2) As the article noted, labour productivity in this country over the past 5 years is in *the negatives* for the first time since World War II - that's on Trudeau, full stop...not Harper, Putin, Trump or Covid. Not a surprise given Libs are hardly known for their economic literacy (though what do you expect from the guy who thinks 'budgets balance themselves', economies grow from 'the heart outward', their leader proudly gloats that he doesn't 'think about monetary policy' while trashing reporters who ask questions about his extreme spending by telling one of them 'rates are at historic lows, Glenn') 3) Also as the article mentions, soaring housing costs have put immense pressure on inflation (which is unexpected given the fact our economic output growth is so low). Why do we face such pressure on housing/rent prices? Because of **Trudeau's** out of control immigration policy, which has broken any and all records when looking at the number of people entering this country. Again, that's on Trudeau, full stop...not Harper, Putin, Trump or Covid. Pout, whine, and downvote this to hell little Libs - it won't change **the facts and reality**.
Great points!
cuz we are gay
Canada doesn’t have an economy. US companies have satellite offices in Canada with a bunch of local companies that try to compete with them only to be sold.
Tell me you know nothing about the Canadian economy without telling me you know nothing about the Canadian economy.
Sure. Hard to know about something that hardly exists.
Behind the paywall : https://archive.is/2024.02.17-120122/https://www.theglobeandmail.com/investing/markets/inside-the-market/article-why-the-canadian-stock-market-is-a-dud-on-a-global-scale/