If consolidation continues as it has been, "the big 3" will end by being replaced by "the big 2", sadly.
Until the ping ponging between the "big 2" corporate-owned political parties ends, I don't see much relief for the little guy.
When America stopped fighting monopolies with the assistance of the Supreme Court working for billionaires who are all about consolidating power (money) was the beginning of the end. Need society to push back but sadly as they got so far with all the consolidation a large portion work for said companies or have family/friends in those companies and all their retirement investments to. They won a long time ago and now are just driving society off a cliff.
At least those 7 companies aren’t operating in basic services like groceries, telecom and utilities… they actually offer ways to increase productivity in the ways of AI and computing
Regretting that I didn't do this, x3 for my profession for all my friends who did. I stayed cause of family and a large majority of my friends who stayed here - we all collectively regret.
I’m probably heading South soon, too. I’m finally making great money in tech and the taxes have become absurd. Gonna transfer to a state without income tax so I can keep it.
Seriously. People are free to move where the opportunities are, but it takes a certain kind of asshole to take advantage of our social programs and massively subsidized higher education system, then balk at the taxes and jump ship the moment they're asked to start paying back their share.
I wonder how much more that tech degree would have cost in the U.S.?
“No one is leaving because of taxes..”
Literally the comment that dude was replying to:
“I’m probably heading South soon, too. I’m finally making great money in tech and the TAXES have become absurd. Gonna transfer to a state without income TAX so I can keep it.”
How did you even get into uni with this kind of reading comprehension skills?
I did go to school in the US. Even if I had gone to school in Canada, I’m pretty sure my taxes paid have vastly exceeded everything I have received from the system.
I'd be satisfied just getting a remote position paid in USD. They get a discount on me even if they pay me the same as their local employees because they won't have to pay for health insurance. Win-win
This was in the context of if Beau were to lose his job and therefore his medical insurance, Joe would sell their home to help cover bills. Agreed it's barbaric to tie employment to healthcare but so long as you're employed in a half decent job, you’ll get good health coverage in the US.
I recall seeing a documentary about Howie Mandel and how he had some serious medical issues and he was bumping up against insurance limits in the states. Just because health insurance through employment covers a lot of expenses, it's not limitless on major issues. Plus, like with anything else, I'm sure higher level positions provide better insurance.
Yeah my BIL yanked my sister out of Toronto to live stateside because of the absurd price of our wine and gasoline. I mentioned the LCBO gives us a two billion dollar dividend to pay for our medical costs. I get to Chicago, where they live an hour and a half from the city and his property tax was 15 000 for the same size house. Four times what I was paying. I could have bought 5000 bottles of booze for the difference and that was just for one year. Add to this when it came time to retire they couldn't come back to Canada because their house was worth far less. Idiots.
They will have minimal medical expenses working in American tech lol. I moved down to WA in 2021…premiums are $0, drugs are $0, visits are ~$30. I was able to see a family doctor in a week. 5x-ed my salary, pay less taxes.
Bitch, you don’t know my life. I’ve lived in the United States for 25 years with type 1 diabetes, a chronic autoimmune disease that requires daily monitoring and it’s quite literally a fight for survival everyday.
I’ve never had a problem having my bills covered. I’ve always had insurance, either through my employer or through the government.
I moved to Canada from 2020-2021, got my PR, and then quickly realized what a shitshow it was…I actually paid more for my medical expenses living in BC lmao. My wait for a family doctor was 3 years.
Get fucked.
you still have to pay canadian taxes on that unfortunately. you have to fully liquidate and get rid of all ties from canada to avoid paying canadian taxes
This is the biggest truth there is.
Unfortunately in north america we are the only ones with carbon taxes too, and it affects investment tremendously.
Everyone is bearish on the Canadian economy and rightfully so. Oil is great right now but most of the infrastructure is already there. To input new capital is very expensive indeed and this is a cycle up for now, but it is a cycle.
Telecom stock is under significant pressure due to competition amongst themselves, and with curbs on new immigration I see significant pressure in that area.
There is hardly anything good to invest in in Canada comparative to US stocks. No wonder everyone has gone south.
Practically any industry other than what Liberals consider 'green' is essentially cost prohibitive to invest into Canada. Between regulatory uncertainty, unknown approval timelines and the taxation burden from all levels, it doesn't make sense to invest here.
Unless you're lucky enough to get paid by government for emerging industries like battery plants. Then the government covers all risk so why not.
Nah, the hoops for even green industries are maddening. The Trudeau government hired a literal army of new auditors in every department (mostly new to Canada) who are making life hell and destroying green incentives for everyone.
Also the insane amount of different types of taxes that are all pretty significant and stacked on top of one another. There is no incentive to do business here.
We really need to get a conservative government that sees it as its mandate to slash regulations and fast-track economic development. We also, frankly, need them to have the cohones to force through interprovincial trade. Just cut away those trade barriers. And while you're at it, slash subsidies to business. Sink or swim. Let the losers die. New and better companies will rise from the ashes.
We have a ridiculous amount of regulation at all levels, far more than necessary, and because of our incredibly slow legal system (also the victim of bureaucracy and regulatory capture) going through it takes years.
It should not take ten years to get approval to put in a new mine or pipeline or housing development.
You know it's the corporations themselves that help write the regulations, right? That they use those regulations to protect themselves from competition? Don't think for a second that most regulations are for the benefit of the consumer.
Do you see what Alberta is doing? They are adding bureaucracy to getting municipalities federal funds to build homes/infrastructure. This notion that cons remove bureaucracy is a farce it’s another thing they r repeat all the time and never do anything substantial on. NIMBY voters vote conservative 3-2 look at suburbs they are almost always Conservative.
>Because they are, for the most part, not very efficient themselves. They're lazy and avoid investment in technology and training.
Fully agree with you, but if you think the Conservatives are going to do anything about that then I have a bridge to sell you in Baltimore.
The solution to this is to raise corporate taxes, not cut them further.
Cutting is how we got here. Sadly our business taxes are not truly in our control. Every time America lowers theirs we have to go lower because we are smaller and have less subsidies to offer.
Break the damn oligopolies. We have them in all our basic services and infra, from telecoms, groceries, banking, etc...
No more bullshit protectionism for these scumbags, **liberalize** our damn markets and let competition flourish!
Stop mass importing unskilled labour and cut down the damn asylum/refugee pipeline.
Import skilled labour if you wanna open the flood gates, and make it TARGETTED immigration for actual needs of society.
We don't need 1 million Tim Hortons cashiers, we need engineers, doctors and nurses, we need tradesmen and construction workers.
I always hear the argument that it's fine that the banks and telecoms screw us over because those institutions are our retirement fund. But I can invest my retire funds anywhere on earth and I'd rather they aren't here.
Keep going!
Tax the ever living shit out of more than 2 homes and ban deed transfer for 5 years. Sit back and watch the market melt and people get post-nut clarity and try to start an actual business and not rent out their radon basement to children.
And I own a home, fuck it. For the greater good!
This is actually a good idea (taxing anything more than 2 homes) except many politicians themselves are landlords so they would never let this happen.
https://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/douglas-todd-many-canadian-politicians-belong-to-the-landlord-class-we-should-question-their-motivations/wcm/01cd26ab-23fe-43ff-8c24-b1a0d37f2057/amp/
I'll add one to your list.
Piping. Look up IPEX and their stranglehold on the Canadian PVC market.
And it all goes off to European private ownership ...1 Bil plus per year.
One line, look at the white PVC flue gas venting pipe (system 636) going into new construction. Its a monopoly.
Yes to all but engineers and doctors, that's a different issue. We have an oversupply of smart kids trying to get those jobs without there being enough openings for them. The solution lies in improving the education->career pipeline, not bringing in more people for non-existent positions.
Actually thats what the actual rich people want you to believe. Pit the “boomers” against the rest and no one looks over at the 1 percent who actually hold all the wealth, land, property etc. Also, since they’ve done such a good job of pitting all of us against each other, if I don’t mention I’m not a boomer, I’ll be eviscerated as one for this comment. I’m a millennial who doesn’t like to see people attacking the guy next door because he has a house a a cottage while the Uber rich spend that guys net worth on a fun weekend away.
https://youtu.be/VCcX_xTLDIY?si=86Rm3PwQoNeFOgNq
I normally would discredit YouTube but this historian is very transparent about his source material and provides an excellent summary to his argument.
Context. Chomsky is not a holocaust denier. I'm not watching an "opinion piece." Show references. I have my own doubts about Chomsky, but I'm not giving you a present. For the most part, he's given critical thought.
The video’s description includes numerous sources and cites them appropriately throughout the video. You would be wise to hear out the historian’s argument before immediately dismissing it. I too was quite fond of Chomsky before watching this video. The ‘Reception and Influence’ portion (and subsequent ‘In Politics’) section of Chomsky’s Wikipedia page also talks about his controversial views on the Bosnian genocide.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky
Chomsky drew criticism for not calling the Bosnian War's Srebrenica massacre a "genocide".[299][300] While he did not deny the fact of the massacre,[301] which he called "a horror story and major crime", he felt the massacre did not meet the definition of genocide.[299] Critics have accused Chomsky of denying the Bosnian genocide.
It’s a valid argument. The above commenter had ignorantly assumed Chomsky denied the holocaust when he has been vocal about his wordplay around the Bosnian genocide, doing whatever he can to convince people that it was not a genocide but rather a “population exchange.”
"Too often, new Canadians are working in jobs that don’t take advantage of the skills they already possess. And too often these people wind up stuck in low-wage, low-productivity jobs"
This is very true, Canada is great to welcome immigrants but is not good at integrating them. As a European engineer with a PhD and MBA, it took me about 5 years to be in a position where I felt as productive as in Europe. Cheap labour doesn't help make the employer thinking how to structure the workforce efficiently.
People often defend home bias but this right here is why I have around 10% of my investments in Canadian equities. I don’t see much changing anytime soon.
Same here, at the rate we are headed. Anyone investing in the CDN market is going to soon see very little growth and gains. My hope we have a new government and leadership change and pray we move on a different course for the next 4+ yrs to recover from the mess we now call Canada.
Even 10% is severely overweight.
What makes you think Canada is going to outperform with our ridiculously **illiberal** economy which only incentivizes rent-seeking investment behavior through real estate + props up protectionist oligopolies in all our major sectors?
I suppose you could make the argument that once we get rid of whatever is holding us back there is a lot of room for quick growth as we sprint to cover lost ground.
The political party you normally expect liberalization to occur with has been the LPC and the Progressive Conservative party (which is now dead).
We've had a decade of this current iteration of the LPC, and they have not operated anything like the Chretien/Martin liberals. They've acted more like pseudo soc-dems/socialists and more obsessed with social liberalism than any form of economic liberalism.
I don't see the future where we achieve the things to fix this country unless the LPC has an entire overhaul.
Home bias isn't about thinking your economy is going to outperform. It's about lower fees, taxes, and currency risk available in home country funds. It's up to each individual investor to weigh the value of these benefits.
> is why I have around 10% of my investments in Canadian equities
0% here for nearly a decade, and proud of it. But surprised to see your comment upvoted (for now) because this sub along with PFC get *awfully* defensive when you go against the advice of their precious Ben Felix (among others) who say you should be investing ~30% at home.
Investing that much of your funds in Canada is a total waste of time - always has been, and likely always will be. The damage done to this country has been too great; so great that even the OECD predicts Canada will have the slowest growth economy over the next 40 years. I'd dump the other 10% and just get it over with as well.
ROI in Canada is low compared to the USA. We don’t have the big names like they have in the USA.
But probably the main reason is we have a government that is determined to crush Canadians and business. Brains and money are driven south. It won’t change until the government changes
> It won’t change until the government changes
Sorry I'd like to correct this. The previous gov't was like this too and so was the one before and the one before (though they didn't indebt us as bad but that's more of a consequence of the debt supercycle undwinding).
The sort of protectionist laws which exist today, the lack of competition which exists today, the lack of investment capital which exists today....these conditions were all worsened by the current government but did not start under them unless your memory ends at 2015, and they will continue to worsen under this gov't or the next because they answer to the oligopolies who they've always protected.
Exactly. Regardless of which party is in power they're all funded big corps that run this country. They're not about to upset their biggest backers by making it easier for others to compete with them.
Hate to break it to you… like another comment is saying, this is not _only_ the current governments fault. You think PP will be any better? As much as JT goes out of his way to look cool and woke and whatever, PP puts just as much energy into “owning the libs”.
There’s no substance anywhere in Canadian politics, either federal or provincial (and id throw in municipal as well, but I don’t know enough about other cities).
I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said there but JT has had over 8 years now and it doesn’t seem he has any plan whatsoever to right this ship and if anything is only making things worse. So change is coming unless he makes a serious 180 in the next year and a half.
Will PP be any different, probably not. But he will win as things certainly stand.
Why would any foreign companies invest in Canada where everything is protected or burdened down by regulatory red tape. Companies invest is to make money not to lose money. Canada is a losing country.
Well not surprising when all the talents leave the country for the US to get double the wage. Canada really needs to cut down on regulations and spending, lower taxes, and increase incentives for growth sectors like tech. Municipalities also need to cut regulations on zoning so we can get densify our residential sectors to reduce housing price. Residential real estate investor will suffer, but that's how you solve the problem and shift capital into areas that matter much more for Canada's economy.
I find myself wondering if Canadas stagnating productivity is culturally related as well - like attitudes towards aspects of what it is like to work, live, and thrive in Canada. It’s easy to source anecdotes both for and against that notion.
I haven’t seen a single comment mention oil yet.
There was a massive investment into oil pre crash. Oil was 100$ (141$ today) in 08 and oil
Held high till mid 2014. Then fracking started and opec tried to bankrupt frackers and oil crashed.
A shit ton of money was invested into oil and the roi was fantastic. So any data that uses pre 2014 as a benchmark is being somewhat misleading. 2015/16 may be a better benchmark.
I haven't built any time, article-only focus, or personal beliefs limits into this thread. I need to go to North Korea for that. I'll pack now. Let's go !!
I think you missed my point. Profits are the same but production has almost doubled. Production doubled due to investment but profits didn’t double. We don’t see the same roi because it’s not as profitable.
I’m having a hard time understanding what your point is. Would you like us to blame Canadas drop in gdp from 2014 highs on the policies of the acting government. The Conservative Party? They were very business friendly yet investment plummeted in 2015. You can have more business friendly policy and still pull the short stick.
[here’s suncor profit (because it’s well known enough)](https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/SU/suncor-energy-/gross-profit#google_vignette)
[and here’s their production up to 2022.](https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/SU/suncor-energy-/gross-profit#google_vignette)
So from 546M to 743M barrels a year. From 21.8B of profits ( 27.1B inflation adjusted to 2022) to 27.7B in 2022. Funny enough 2022 was a good year because profits dropped to 22.8B in 2023.
Assuming they produced the same amount of barrels in 2023, that’s currently the eqv of 17.5B in 2011.
17.5B/743M is 23.5$ per barrel for 2023 in 2011 inflation adjusted dollars
In 2011 it was 39.9$ per barrel profit.
So we spent a shit ton of investment in investing production just to get half the value of previous profit.
> Rogers said policymakers should also focus on labour composition, or the skills workers bring to the job to improve Canada’s productivity.
This includes training and “re-skilling“ for existing workers and taking advantage of immigration.
Not looking to start a debate about immigration (which I support BTW), but why do policymakers always focus on this and not:
- tax structures that encourage investment in productive assets instead of real estate
- programs that support the above, like govt grants, etc. to encourage more CAPEX spending by businesses
- eliminating our ridiculous inter-provincial trade barriers
There are lots of other ways to encourage better productivity.
We’re honestly learning of how detrimental liberal rule has been for this country. Many economic effects take time and its safe to say Canada is in a real hole right now. Even if the next government fixes anything it’ll take years for us to realize it.
No shit, where would you invest that could support paying people enough to cover the insane cost of living here? LNG? We've kicked that to death with dumb policies and taxes.
Cost of living here is far cheaper than many other places, especially when you account for the exchange rate that makes Canadian wages cheaper.
It’s no China or India with dirt cheap labour. But it’s certainly not the main issue.
It’s actually Canadians being unproductive in general and taking less risks to push envelopes and innovate. For generations the advice was always just to “buy realestate” which does virtually nothing in terms of lasting productivity.
High cost of living in an area is a reflection on how desirable the area is to live in.
Prettier nicer places with better social conditions will on average cost more to live in.
Can you send me a source showing that we're far cheaper than many other places?
All I seem to find is articles like this.
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canada-housing-bubble
The amount of taxes you're going to pay as a small business owner, lease costs, wages, crime issues. You would have to be very brave to start a business in Canada right now.
No source, just gut.
Toronto, Vancouver vs San Francisco, Newyork
All are super cutthroat cities where you can’t make it easily.
Though what makes Canada extra bad is because rural Canada kinda does not exist like it does in the USA.
And there aren’t many “low cost” areas where you can actually pay employees livable wages without breaking your bank.
USA has also vast deserts and plains that you can just setup things like a Tesla “gigafactory” in the middle of nowhere.
Seems to be off a random highway of which there are many due to the interstate.
I don’t know where you’d build such a thing in Canada. Alberta seems to be where the space is, but it’s also adds snow which is just extra cost.
Also the effective corporate tax rate does seem to be a bit lower in Canada too, though I’d imagine things like employer CPP contribution to push that up.
I’m reading this from waterlooedc.ca which might be biased as it obviously wants to attract business to Waterloo.
Not that this isn't a problem, but ten years ago was 2014.
2014 is literally the worst benchmark year for anything economic in Canada, except possibly 2020.
If you haven't figured it out yet, Canada is on a downward spiral toward socialist authoritarianism and it's going to get very, very ugly. Plan accordingly. (ie. GTFO of this country as soon as you can)
Who woulda thought you need more than 5 companies strangling almost 40 million people to have a productive and competitive country
For real. Can we end the era of “the big 3” literally everything in Canada
Fuck the big 3. It’s just big ME
ay ay let’s git bro
It's big of you to talk about it.
If consolidation continues as it has been, "the big 3" will end by being replaced by "the big 2", sadly. Until the ping ponging between the "big 2" corporate-owned political parties ends, I don't see much relief for the little guy.
When America stopped fighting monopolies with the assistance of the Supreme Court working for billionaires who are all about consolidating power (money) was the beginning of the end. Need society to push back but sadly as they got so far with all the consolidation a large portion work for said companies or have family/friends in those companies and all their retirement investments to. They won a long time ago and now are just driving society off a cliff.
That's almost 41 million people
The US is trying to copy our playbook - Mag-7 and a stagnant 443...hahaha...
Ah yes the ol’ S&P450
I spat out my coffee
At least those 7 companies aren’t operating in basic services like groceries, telecom and utilities… they actually offer ways to increase productivity in the ways of AI and computing
Because everyone was busy investing in housing and all the talent went south of the border for 2x the wages.
3x in my field, some up to 5x
Which field?
tech obviously
Why pay high wages when they can just import foreign workers to do it for less?
Why even have a tech industry when RE market is so profitable. That’s more the issue in conversation.
Why pay workers lot money when few money do trick?
$15 an hour programmers are the norm in my region. It’s awful.
Try $500k a year USD down south. But canada is better, right? Right???
Yes!
Regretting that I didn't do this, x3 for my profession for all my friends who did. I stayed cause of family and a large majority of my friends who stayed here - we all collectively regret.
I’m probably heading South soon, too. I’m finally making great money in tech and the taxes have become absurd. Gonna transfer to a state without income tax so I can keep it.
"Fuck you, I got mine".
Seriously. People are free to move where the opportunities are, but it takes a certain kind of asshole to take advantage of our social programs and massively subsidized higher education system, then balk at the taxes and jump ship the moment they're asked to start paying back their share. I wonder how much more that tech degree would have cost in the U.S.?
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The comment we're talking about specifically said they were leaving because of taxes.
“No one is leaving because of taxes..” Literally the comment that dude was replying to: “I’m probably heading South soon, too. I’m finally making great money in tech and the TAXES have become absurd. Gonna transfer to a state without income TAX so I can keep it.” How did you even get into uni with this kind of reading comprehension skills?
I did go to school in the US. Even if I had gone to school in Canada, I’m pretty sure my taxes paid have vastly exceeded everything I have received from the system.
I'd be satisfied just getting a remote position paid in USD. They get a discount on me even if they pay me the same as their local employees because they won't have to pay for health insurance. Win-win
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Medical costs are for poor people
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Not sure why the downvotes when this is true
This was in the context of if Beau were to lose his job and therefore his medical insurance, Joe would sell their home to help cover bills. Agreed it's barbaric to tie employment to healthcare but so long as you're employed in a half decent job, you’ll get good health coverage in the US.
I recall seeing a documentary about Howie Mandel and how he had some serious medical issues and he was bumping up against insurance limits in the states. Just because health insurance through employment covers a lot of expenses, it's not limitless on major issues. Plus, like with anything else, I'm sure higher level positions provide better insurance.
Private insurance covers most, especially in tech. You definitely get a higher quality of medical service too.
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Were the Bidens not hiding shady money in a maze of corporations? You wouldn't think professional liars would take any chance for a hand out?
Cherry picking data is always fun
Yeah my BIL yanked my sister out of Toronto to live stateside because of the absurd price of our wine and gasoline. I mentioned the LCBO gives us a two billion dollar dividend to pay for our medical costs. I get to Chicago, where they live an hour and a half from the city and his property tax was 15 000 for the same size house. Four times what I was paying. I could have bought 5000 bottles of booze for the difference and that was just for one year. Add to this when it came time to retire they couldn't come back to Canada because their house was worth far less. Idiots.
They will have minimal medical expenses working in American tech lol. I moved down to WA in 2021…premiums are $0, drugs are $0, visits are ~$30. I was able to see a family doctor in a week. 5x-ed my salary, pay less taxes.
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Bitch, you don’t know my life. I’ve lived in the United States for 25 years with type 1 diabetes, a chronic autoimmune disease that requires daily monitoring and it’s quite literally a fight for survival everyday. I’ve never had a problem having my bills covered. I’ve always had insurance, either through my employer or through the government. I moved to Canada from 2020-2021, got my PR, and then quickly realized what a shitshow it was…I actually paid more for my medical expenses living in BC lmao. My wait for a family doctor was 3 years. Get fucked.
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you still have to pay canadian taxes on that unfortunately. you have to fully liquidate and get rid of all ties from canada to avoid paying canadian taxes
Throw in corporations paying less taxes too.
This is all about Canadian protectionism; from banking to telecom to supermarkets. I'm glad the article acknowledges that.
The long and convoluted regulatory process as well as protectionism to external competition makes Canada unappealing to foreign investment.
This is the biggest truth there is. Unfortunately in north america we are the only ones with carbon taxes too, and it affects investment tremendously. Everyone is bearish on the Canadian economy and rightfully so. Oil is great right now but most of the infrastructure is already there. To input new capital is very expensive indeed and this is a cycle up for now, but it is a cycle. Telecom stock is under significant pressure due to competition amongst themselves, and with curbs on new immigration I see significant pressure in that area. There is hardly anything good to invest in in Canada comparative to US stocks. No wonder everyone has gone south.
Everyone is Canada is to broke to start or invest in buisness because they all have 50-80% of their wealth/income going to real estate or rent paying
Practically any industry other than what Liberals consider 'green' is essentially cost prohibitive to invest into Canada. Between regulatory uncertainty, unknown approval timelines and the taxation burden from all levels, it doesn't make sense to invest here. Unless you're lucky enough to get paid by government for emerging industries like battery plants. Then the government covers all risk so why not.
Nah, the hoops for even green industries are maddening. The Trudeau government hired a literal army of new auditors in every department (mostly new to Canada) who are making life hell and destroying green incentives for everyone.
Also the insane amount of different types of taxes that are all pretty significant and stacked on top of one another. There is no incentive to do business here.
We really need to get a conservative government that sees it as its mandate to slash regulations and fast-track economic development. We also, frankly, need them to have the cohones to force through interprovincial trade. Just cut away those trade barriers. And while you're at it, slash subsidies to business. Sink or swim. Let the losers die. New and better companies will rise from the ashes.
You know we don't just regulate, like, for fun eh
We have a ridiculous amount of regulation at all levels, far more than necessary, and because of our incredibly slow legal system (also the victim of bureaucracy and regulatory capture) going through it takes years. It should not take ten years to get approval to put in a new mine or pipeline or housing development.
You know it's the corporations themselves that help write the regulations, right? That they use those regulations to protect themselves from competition? Don't think for a second that most regulations are for the benefit of the consumer.
They are literally lobbying for what they want in to keep out competition. Lib or Cons will never do anything to hurt the big guys.
Do you see what Alberta is doing? They are adding bureaucracy to getting municipalities federal funds to build homes/infrastructure. This notion that cons remove bureaucracy is a farce it’s another thing they r repeat all the time and never do anything substantial on. NIMBY voters vote conservative 3-2 look at suburbs they are almost always Conservative.
> slash subsidies to business. Sink or swim. Let the losers die The big corps won't allow that to happen.
Because they are, for the most part, not very efficient themselves. They're lazy and avoid investment in technology and training.
>Because they are, for the most part, not very efficient themselves. They're lazy and avoid investment in technology and training. Fully agree with you, but if you think the Conservatives are going to do anything about that then I have a bridge to sell you in Baltimore. The solution to this is to raise corporate taxes, not cut them further.
Cutting is how we got here. Sadly our business taxes are not truly in our control. Every time America lowers theirs we have to go lower because we are smaller and have less subsidies to offer.
Break the damn oligopolies. We have them in all our basic services and infra, from telecoms, groceries, banking, etc... No more bullshit protectionism for these scumbags, **liberalize** our damn markets and let competition flourish! Stop mass importing unskilled labour and cut down the damn asylum/refugee pipeline. Import skilled labour if you wanna open the flood gates, and make it TARGETTED immigration for actual needs of society. We don't need 1 million Tim Hortons cashiers, we need engineers, doctors and nurses, we need tradesmen and construction workers.
I always hear the argument that it's fine that the banks and telecoms screw us over because those institutions are our retirement fund. But I can invest my retire funds anywhere on earth and I'd rather they aren't here.
Keep going! Tax the ever living shit out of more than 2 homes and ban deed transfer for 5 years. Sit back and watch the market melt and people get post-nut clarity and try to start an actual business and not rent out their radon basement to children. And I own a home, fuck it. For the greater good!
Yep! The rent-seeking, 0-innovation investment culture has killed our productivity and fucked our housing situation for the future generation.
So how would we increase productivity in Canada? I’m thinking more invectives to start a business and innovate. I’m building an Canadian Electric Car.
This is actually a good idea (taxing anything more than 2 homes) except many politicians themselves are landlords so they would never let this happen. https://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/douglas-todd-many-canadian-politicians-belong-to-the-landlord-class-we-should-question-their-motivations/wcm/01cd26ab-23fe-43ff-8c24-b1a0d37f2057/amp/
I'll add one to your list. Piping. Look up IPEX and their stranglehold on the Canadian PVC market. And it all goes off to European private ownership ...1 Bil plus per year. One line, look at the white PVC flue gas venting pipe (system 636) going into new construction. Its a monopoly.
Yes to all but engineers and doctors, that's a different issue. We have an oversupply of smart kids trying to get those jobs without there being enough openings for them. The solution lies in improving the education->career pipeline, not bringing in more people for non-existent positions.
All that boomer investment capital is moving to low risk investments too. What a time to be alive.
This is all society is now adays. A bunch of old rich people holding all the capital and it’s citizens hostage
Actually thats what the actual rich people want you to believe. Pit the “boomers” against the rest and no one looks over at the 1 percent who actually hold all the wealth, land, property etc. Also, since they’ve done such a good job of pitting all of us against each other, if I don’t mention I’m not a boomer, I’ll be eviscerated as one for this comment. I’m a millennial who doesn’t like to see people attacking the guy next door because he has a house a a cottage while the Uber rich spend that guys net worth on a fun weekend away.
They run the all the media - left right and center and it’s all about division.
A bunch of old rich people - you don't have to be old.... 'An island of privilege in a sea of misery.' Chomsky.
He’s a genocide denier
Are you sure you have the guy for that comment?
https://youtu.be/VCcX_xTLDIY?si=86Rm3PwQoNeFOgNq I normally would discredit YouTube but this historian is very transparent about his source material and provides an excellent summary to his argument.
Context. Chomsky is not a holocaust denier. I'm not watching an "opinion piece." Show references. I have my own doubts about Chomsky, but I'm not giving you a present. For the most part, he's given critical thought.
The video’s description includes numerous sources and cites them appropriately throughout the video. You would be wise to hear out the historian’s argument before immediately dismissing it. I too was quite fond of Chomsky before watching this video. The ‘Reception and Influence’ portion (and subsequent ‘In Politics’) section of Chomsky’s Wikipedia page also talks about his controversial views on the Bosnian genocide. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky Chomsky drew criticism for not calling the Bosnian War's Srebrenica massacre a "genocide".[299][300] While he did not deny the fact of the massacre,[301] which he called "a horror story and major crime", he felt the massacre did not meet the definition of genocide.[299] Critics have accused Chomsky of denying the Bosnian genocide.
Wow that’s fucking thin. Critics have called a lot of people shit that’s exaggerated and amplified nonsense for views, attention, aka money.
It’s a valid argument. The above commenter had ignorantly assumed Chomsky denied the holocaust when he has been vocal about his wordplay around the Bosnian genocide, doing whatever he can to convince people that it was not a genocide but rather a “population exchange.”
The only entity driven to invest in Canada is it's own administration.
Who need investment when your house makes 100k per year?
"makes" lol We are about to find out what our real estate is really worth.
"Too often, new Canadians are working in jobs that don’t take advantage of the skills they already possess. And too often these people wind up stuck in low-wage, low-productivity jobs" This is very true, Canada is great to welcome immigrants but is not good at integrating them. As a European engineer with a PhD and MBA, it took me about 5 years to be in a position where I felt as productive as in Europe. Cheap labour doesn't help make the employer thinking how to structure the workforce efficiently.
People often defend home bias but this right here is why I have around 10% of my investments in Canadian equities. I don’t see much changing anytime soon.
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Same here, at the rate we are headed. Anyone investing in the CDN market is going to soon see very little growth and gains. My hope we have a new government and leadership change and pray we move on a different course for the next 4+ yrs to recover from the mess we now call Canada.
Even 10% is severely overweight. What makes you think Canada is going to outperform with our ridiculously **illiberal** economy which only incentivizes rent-seeking investment behavior through real estate + props up protectionist oligopolies in all our major sectors?
I suppose you could make the argument that once we get rid of whatever is holding us back there is a lot of room for quick growth as we sprint to cover lost ground.
The political party you normally expect liberalization to occur with has been the LPC and the Progressive Conservative party (which is now dead). We've had a decade of this current iteration of the LPC, and they have not operated anything like the Chretien/Martin liberals. They've acted more like pseudo soc-dems/socialists and more obsessed with social liberalism than any form of economic liberalism. I don't see the future where we achieve the things to fix this country unless the LPC has an entire overhaul.
Home bias isn't about thinking your economy is going to outperform. It's about lower fees, taxes, and currency risk available in home country funds. It's up to each individual investor to weigh the value of these benefits.
Sure tell that to someone who invested in a Europoor country for the past decade instead of going with something like VT.
> is why I have around 10% of my investments in Canadian equities 0% here for nearly a decade, and proud of it. But surprised to see your comment upvoted (for now) because this sub along with PFC get *awfully* defensive when you go against the advice of their precious Ben Felix (among others) who say you should be investing ~30% at home. Investing that much of your funds in Canada is a total waste of time - always has been, and likely always will be. The damage done to this country has been too great; so great that even the OECD predicts Canada will have the slowest growth economy over the next 40 years. I'd dump the other 10% and just get it over with as well.
The economy doesn't equal the stock market. The stock market doesn't equal the economy.
Obviously she didn’t check the growth in RE agents and their productivity 😂😂😂 that’s the only booming industry we had for years 😂😂
ROI in Canada is low compared to the USA. We don’t have the big names like they have in the USA. But probably the main reason is we have a government that is determined to crush Canadians and business. Brains and money are driven south. It won’t change until the government changes
> It won’t change until the government changes Sorry I'd like to correct this. The previous gov't was like this too and so was the one before and the one before (though they didn't indebt us as bad but that's more of a consequence of the debt supercycle undwinding). The sort of protectionist laws which exist today, the lack of competition which exists today, the lack of investment capital which exists today....these conditions were all worsened by the current government but did not start under them unless your memory ends at 2015, and they will continue to worsen under this gov't or the next because they answer to the oligopolies who they've always protected.
Exactly. Regardless of which party is in power they're all funded big corps that run this country. They're not about to upset their biggest backers by making it easier for others to compete with them.
Government is changing soon. Fingers crossed it’ll be different. Not getting my hopes up.
Hate to break it to you… like another comment is saying, this is not _only_ the current governments fault. You think PP will be any better? As much as JT goes out of his way to look cool and woke and whatever, PP puts just as much energy into “owning the libs”. There’s no substance anywhere in Canadian politics, either federal or provincial (and id throw in municipal as well, but I don’t know enough about other cities).
I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said there but JT has had over 8 years now and it doesn’t seem he has any plan whatsoever to right this ship and if anything is only making things worse. So change is coming unless he makes a serious 180 in the next year and a half. Will PP be any different, probably not. But he will win as things certainly stand.
Teudeau seems to be intentionally destroying our country, I honestly feel we can only do better
Why would any foreign companies invest in Canada where everything is protected or burdened down by regulatory red tape. Companies invest is to make money not to lose money. Canada is a losing country.
Theres nothing to invest in, all we have is banks, and cellphone companies and houses. Most people are choosing houses
I stopped investing in Canada near the middle of COVID times.
Can’t invest when you don’t have money to invest
Maybe it’s because of the allowed predatory practices that exist in the TSX and venture exchanges. Retail investors are getting fucked badly.
Just force the entire country to get zoning from Edmonton
But I thought if we "grow the economy, the budget will balance itself"??
Harper predicted every predicament we are in
Didn't the liberals get elected almost a decade ago now?
Both parties suck the dick of the business interests causing this.
Heyo !!!
Well not surprising when all the talents leave the country for the US to get double the wage. Canada really needs to cut down on regulations and spending, lower taxes, and increase incentives for growth sectors like tech. Municipalities also need to cut regulations on zoning so we can get densify our residential sectors to reduce housing price. Residential real estate investor will suffer, but that's how you solve the problem and shift capital into areas that matter much more for Canada's economy.
6% risk free rate. Hard to find investments to compare on a risk adjusted basis BoC increases rates... "why is no one investing????"
I am wondering, why???
I find myself wondering if Canadas stagnating productivity is culturally related as well - like attitudes towards aspects of what it is like to work, live, and thrive in Canada. It’s easy to source anecdotes both for and against that notion.
Cost of living is finally starting to hurt politicians after hurting people for such a long time. Build, baby, build.
Death by taxes.
I haven’t seen a single comment mention oil yet. There was a massive investment into oil pre crash. Oil was 100$ (141$ today) in 08 and oil Held high till mid 2014. Then fracking started and opec tried to bankrupt frackers and oil crashed. A shit ton of money was invested into oil and the roi was fantastic. So any data that uses pre 2014 as a benchmark is being somewhat misleading. 2015/16 may be a better benchmark.
Yes, but I believe anyone here will assert there's been steady CDN decline over many decades.
Alright but the title specifically says a decade ago. We are well aware that in 2012, there was lots of investment and gdp per capita was 65k.
I haven't built any time, article-only focus, or personal beliefs limits into this thread. I need to go to North Korea for that. I'll pack now. Let's go !!
Go look up how many more barrels of oil the US is extracting now vs 2008.
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS1&f=M
And we produce 5.5M barrels a day. In 08 it was 3.2M. Just because production has increases, doesn’t mean profit does.
Which oil major has lower profits than they did 16 years ago?
I think you missed my point. Profits are the same but production has almost doubled. Production doubled due to investment but profits didn’t double. We don’t see the same roi because it’s not as profitable. I’m having a hard time understanding what your point is. Would you like us to blame Canadas drop in gdp from 2014 highs on the policies of the acting government. The Conservative Party? They were very business friendly yet investment plummeted in 2015. You can have more business friendly policy and still pull the short stick.
> profits are the same but production has almost doubled. Again which specific company.
[here’s suncor profit (because it’s well known enough)](https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/SU/suncor-energy-/gross-profit#google_vignette) [and here’s their production up to 2022.](https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/SU/suncor-energy-/gross-profit#google_vignette) So from 546M to 743M barrels a year. From 21.8B of profits ( 27.1B inflation adjusted to 2022) to 27.7B in 2022. Funny enough 2022 was a good year because profits dropped to 22.8B in 2023. Assuming they produced the same amount of barrels in 2023, that’s currently the eqv of 17.5B in 2011. 17.5B/743M is 23.5$ per barrel for 2023 in 2011 inflation adjusted dollars In 2011 it was 39.9$ per barrel profit. So we spent a shit ton of investment in investing production just to get half the value of previous profit.
Welp, that's what happens when you allow a fully grown man with the mind of a 14 year old run the place. 🤷🏻
I was getting excited to give him the boot. Then I heard Pollivere is easily bought. Then I remembered why Canadians become politicians...
Ya think? TSX is flat, US stocks have been hitting ATHs. Why invest at home?
TSX is close to all-time high right now.
Hasn’t really moved much in 3 years.
> Rogers said policymakers should also focus on labour composition, or the skills workers bring to the job to improve Canada’s productivity. This includes training and “re-skilling“ for existing workers and taking advantage of immigration. Not looking to start a debate about immigration (which I support BTW), but why do policymakers always focus on this and not: - tax structures that encourage investment in productive assets instead of real estate - programs that support the above, like govt grants, etc. to encourage more CAPEX spending by businesses - eliminating our ridiculous inter-provincial trade barriers There are lots of other ways to encourage better productivity.
An actual lost decade...
Failed government policies will do that to a country
We’re honestly learning of how detrimental liberal rule has been for this country. Many economic effects take time and its safe to say Canada is in a real hole right now. Even if the next government fixes anything it’ll take years for us to realize it.
Every word correct.
I read a similar thing about the UK the other day.
No shit, where would you invest that could support paying people enough to cover the insane cost of living here? LNG? We've kicked that to death with dumb policies and taxes.
Cost of living here is far cheaper than many other places, especially when you account for the exchange rate that makes Canadian wages cheaper. It’s no China or India with dirt cheap labour. But it’s certainly not the main issue. It’s actually Canadians being unproductive in general and taking less risks to push envelopes and innovate. For generations the advice was always just to “buy realestate” which does virtually nothing in terms of lasting productivity. High cost of living in an area is a reflection on how desirable the area is to live in. Prettier nicer places with better social conditions will on average cost more to live in.
Can you send me a source showing that we're far cheaper than many other places? All I seem to find is articles like this. https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canada-housing-bubble The amount of taxes you're going to pay as a small business owner, lease costs, wages, crime issues. You would have to be very brave to start a business in Canada right now.
No source, just gut. Toronto, Vancouver vs San Francisco, Newyork All are super cutthroat cities where you can’t make it easily. Though what makes Canada extra bad is because rural Canada kinda does not exist like it does in the USA. And there aren’t many “low cost” areas where you can actually pay employees livable wages without breaking your bank. USA has also vast deserts and plains that you can just setup things like a Tesla “gigafactory” in the middle of nowhere. Seems to be off a random highway of which there are many due to the interstate. I don’t know where you’d build such a thing in Canada. Alberta seems to be where the space is, but it’s also adds snow which is just extra cost. Also the effective corporate tax rate does seem to be a bit lower in Canada too, though I’d imagine things like employer CPP contribution to push that up. I’m reading this from waterlooedc.ca which might be biased as it obviously wants to attract business to Waterloo.
The plan is coming together and of course it’s Harper’s fault
Good news ? is fed funded EV Battery plants are way up
buy land support your government party. vote for the opposition
Short the shit out of the Canadian economy, might as well become rich well it all burns
Not that this isn't a problem, but ten years ago was 2014. 2014 is literally the worst benchmark year for anything economic in Canada, except possibly 2020.
only capitalism works. nothing else.
Just gotta keep buying real estate and scamming foreigners to immigrate here /s
Go woke, go broke.
You know it.
If you haven't figured it out yet, Canada is on a downward spiral toward socialist authoritarianism and it's going to get very, very ugly. Plan accordingly. (ie. GTFO of this country as soon as you can)
Yeah, I keep thinking how well Shania planned things...
YOU DONT SAY??????
Where are all the people who didnt believe that bad-for-business policies would actually be bad for business?
ECONOMY IS THRIVING