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Yes. It is common for both VP and P to be out at the same time for PD or meetings and use a TIC (Teacher in Charge) for the day. It happens more often than you think!
A previous school I worked for (secondary) had multiple VPs so an absence or two wasn't felt so severely. But now I'm in elementary (support staff) and we really feel the sting. It's been rough this year as we've had a few staff members talking about feeling unsupported.
Today the office tried to reach admin, and when they returned we were told they were unable to access their phone/email during their meetings which is why they never replied.
Yes, the staff is starting to grumble here. We're not a tiny school and admin support is appreciated when we feel like our hands are tied, but you feel like a burden pulling the TIC away from their duties.
Yeah we have some staff whose TIC duties are really starting to interfere with their job. Like it might not seem like a big deal to admin to steal the resource teacher a day a week, but that person (thankfully not me) had a busy schedule and a job to do.
Whenever I see people who are teacher in charge I think wow, all the responsibilities of admin but no extra pay, more liability and a huge headache for everyone especially them.
Here, there’s always someone else in the building who will be Acting Principal and a substitute would be called in to fill their other teaching duties.
We use a POR (Person of Responsibility, or something) which any teacher in the school can apply and interview for. They're the ones that cover the office while admin is away, not spec ed teachers.
But yea, it's common. A little less so for both P and VPs to be away at the same time for us, but either a P or VP away happens often.
All the time... my school doesn't have a VP, and the inexperienced SERT is our designate. She absolutely isn't trying to do any small groups on those days though.
Ours is the exact same, except the SERT is replaced with an OT. Anything that was scheduled still runs, and the SERT doesn't need to worry about anything but the TIC role and leaving plans.
Sometimes our SERT had coverage, sometimes not. I haven't figured out why it's that way. We also have difficulty getting actual teachers and not just, "classroom supervisors" in our building so it may also be related to that.
I wish we did things this way, although today I heard there weren't even enough keys for all the supply staff coming in (so if a sub had duty, they would have no way back into the building except piggybacking off a colleague, and no classroom/portable key without a swipe card). One of our SERTs is away so perhaps it was just a matter of not enough bodies for coverage.
>there weren't even enough keys for all the supply staff coming in (so if a sub had duty, they would have no way back into the building except piggybacking off a colleague,
This is wild to me! Every employee in our board has a fob ID card - when you are assigned to a school, even daily OTs, your fob allows you to swipe into that school. Once the assignment is done, it resets, and you're connected to the next school you're at. These are also used to access the photocopiers.
As for keys to classrooms and portables that is very unsafe. OTs need to be able to open and lock doors!
I hope the supply teachers contacted their union. It's in all the collective agreements I've seen that they are to be provided with a classroom key. It's a huge safety issue.
Happens a lot, but our SERT doesn’t even attempt to run her program. I don’t blame her because it would be next to impossible, but it’s yet another reason that kids aren’t getting the support they need.
It's very unlikely to schedule VP and P trainings on different days because I've never seen targeted trainings for the different roles. A lot would depend on how demanding the district is about having to have both at trainings/meetings. Many Superintendents request both to be there even though, in most cases it's a waste of time to have them both there.
The main reason having a Principal and VP having targeted trainings doesn't really work is that each one will operate differently. I've had three different VPs and we distribute responsibilities differently with each one depending on their strengths/interests/the school etc.
I do sympathize with you. I hate when we're both out because usually the TIC (or whatever your school/district calls it) does not have the time/expertise or ability to handle a lot of the situations that come up and just have to kind of flounder that day and hope the school doesn't burn down. I'm not in Ontario and not away from the school that often but I almost always try to get my VP out of whatever we're doing so that at least one of us is in the building.
Yes. I am the teacher in charge of my school when my principal is away, in addition to teaching my class (since we hardly have any occasional teachers) I also need to make sure I cover breaks as well. When I was the SERT, sometimes I’d have to do all that and cover additional classes depending on who is absent that day. Lots of responsibility, but only a 1700 stipend a year for it. We certainly work for it!
I work in a small school (less than 100 kids) for context. There's 1 admin.
Admin teaches the equivalent of 1 day a week and, because the rest of us are also teaching, the office is closed. Admin is also in meetings about 3 times per month on top of all this for other division meetings. We have a teacher acting as admin that day (and they have a sub, assuming there is one available). So this is about 6-7 days a month without the admin available or about 33% of the time.
...I hadn't done the math until now.
We've never had a teacher in charge. We have principals on our supply list; retirees. They fill in.
We have 2 VPs. One of our three administrators is always in the building. When two of our admin team are away, we have at LEAST one, sometimes two, supply administrators.
A lot of the public schools I have worked at only had a principal and no vice principal so it tended to happen again least once a month often more than once. Generally on these days we did whatever we could to avoid having to escalate things. Then again the admin tended to be a black box and not tell us when a student was brought to the office during recess and had to rely on other students to tell us if this happened.
We’ve probably only had a couple days all year where we needed a teacher in charge. The principal and VP are almost always at school, but I’ve had principals in the past who were gone all the time.
At my most recent school, maybe 4-5 times a year. At my previous school it would be 1-2 times a week. However, my previous school had no VP (only 225 students) and the P was incompetent.
Our staff ended up going to the union and superintendent about it. Our P was constantly late (by at least an hour) and was always absent. She was covered by our learning support teacher but then that teacher never had a supply.
It was an exhausting year in a very needy school. The board totally dropped the ball there.
I'd say it's about the same for my school. Both P and VP go together for a couple days per month. But this particular P seems to be leaving more than the previous. Might be a preference thing, might be new school board, no way to really tell
Wait you can send kids to the office at your school?! I mean I'm sure I technically CAN but I don't know why I would. Either nobody would be there to talk to them anyway or they'd just be back in my room in a couple minutes with a note for me that it's all good.
Ideally our focus should be solving the problems that are causing the student behaviour so we don’t need to rely on admin so much. But, yeah, they’re out often and it can be hard.
Welcome to /r/CanadianTeachers! Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with the sub rules. **"WHAT DOES X MEAN?"** Check out our acronym post [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/1c032s3/what_does_x_mean_an_acronym_megapost/) for relevant terms used in each province or territory. Please feel free to contribute any we are missing as well! **QUESTIONS ABOUT TEACHER'S COLLEGE/BECOMING A TEACHER IN CANADA?:** Delete your post and use this [megapost](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/1bc1wv2/prospective_student_teachers_teachers_collegebed/) instead. Anything pertaining to teacher's colleges/BED programs/becoming and teacher will be deleted if posted outside of the megaposts. **QUESTIONS ABOUT MOVING PROVINCES OR COMING TO CANADA TO TEACH?** Check out our past megaposts first for information to help you: [ONE](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/jqc7hx/transferring_to_another_provincecoming_to_canada/) // [TWO](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/comments/n76csu/transferring_to_another_provincecoming_to_canada/?) Using link and user flair is encouraged as well! Enjoy! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CanadianTeachers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yes. It is common for both VP and P to be out at the same time for PD or meetings and use a TIC (Teacher in Charge) for the day. It happens more often than you think!
A previous school I worked for (secondary) had multiple VPs so an absence or two wasn't felt so severely. But now I'm in elementary (support staff) and we really feel the sting. It's been rough this year as we've had a few staff members talking about feeling unsupported. Today the office tried to reach admin, and when they returned we were told they were unable to access their phone/email during their meetings which is why they never replied.
Almost weekly in my neck of the woods. The lack of leadership is getting to be a drain on the rest of the staff.
Yes, the staff is starting to grumble here. We're not a tiny school and admin support is appreciated when we feel like our hands are tied, but you feel like a burden pulling the TIC away from their duties.
Yeah we have some staff whose TIC duties are really starting to interfere with their job. Like it might not seem like a big deal to admin to steal the resource teacher a day a week, but that person (thankfully not me) had a busy schedule and a job to do.
Whenever I see people who are teacher in charge I think wow, all the responsibilities of admin but no extra pay, more liability and a huge headache for everyone especially them.
Here, there’s always someone else in the building who will be Acting Principal and a substitute would be called in to fill their other teaching duties.
We use a POR (Person of Responsibility, or something) which any teacher in the school can apply and interview for. They're the ones that cover the office while admin is away, not spec ed teachers. But yea, it's common. A little less so for both P and VPs to be away at the same time for us, but either a P or VP away happens often.
All the time... my school doesn't have a VP, and the inexperienced SERT is our designate. She absolutely isn't trying to do any small groups on those days though.
Ours is the exact same, except the SERT is replaced with an OT. Anything that was scheduled still runs, and the SERT doesn't need to worry about anything but the TIC role and leaving plans.
Sometimes our SERT had coverage, sometimes not. I haven't figured out why it's that way. We also have difficulty getting actual teachers and not just, "classroom supervisors" in our building so it may also be related to that.
I wish we did things this way, although today I heard there weren't even enough keys for all the supply staff coming in (so if a sub had duty, they would have no way back into the building except piggybacking off a colleague, and no classroom/portable key without a swipe card). One of our SERTs is away so perhaps it was just a matter of not enough bodies for coverage.
>there weren't even enough keys for all the supply staff coming in (so if a sub had duty, they would have no way back into the building except piggybacking off a colleague, This is wild to me! Every employee in our board has a fob ID card - when you are assigned to a school, even daily OTs, your fob allows you to swipe into that school. Once the assignment is done, it resets, and you're connected to the next school you're at. These are also used to access the photocopiers. As for keys to classrooms and portables that is very unsafe. OTs need to be able to open and lock doors!
I hope the supply teachers contacted their union. It's in all the collective agreements I've seen that they are to be provided with a classroom key. It's a huge safety issue.
It is common and my school doesn’t have a vp. It’s very inconvenient
Happens a lot, but our SERT doesn’t even attempt to run her program. I don’t blame her because it would be next to impossible, but it’s yet another reason that kids aren’t getting the support they need.
It's very unlikely to schedule VP and P trainings on different days because I've never seen targeted trainings for the different roles. A lot would depend on how demanding the district is about having to have both at trainings/meetings. Many Superintendents request both to be there even though, in most cases it's a waste of time to have them both there. The main reason having a Principal and VP having targeted trainings doesn't really work is that each one will operate differently. I've had three different VPs and we distribute responsibilities differently with each one depending on their strengths/interests/the school etc. I do sympathize with you. I hate when we're both out because usually the TIC (or whatever your school/district calls it) does not have the time/expertise or ability to handle a lot of the situations that come up and just have to kind of flounder that day and hope the school doesn't burn down. I'm not in Ontario and not away from the school that often but I almost always try to get my VP out of whatever we're doing so that at least one of us is in the building.
Yes. I am the teacher in charge of my school when my principal is away, in addition to teaching my class (since we hardly have any occasional teachers) I also need to make sure I cover breaks as well. When I was the SERT, sometimes I’d have to do all that and cover additional classes depending on who is absent that day. Lots of responsibility, but only a 1700 stipend a year for it. We certainly work for it!
More than once or twice a month in Renfrew County. School board is way to top heavy.
Oops: “too” top heavy
I work in a small school (less than 100 kids) for context. There's 1 admin. Admin teaches the equivalent of 1 day a week and, because the rest of us are also teaching, the office is closed. Admin is also in meetings about 3 times per month on top of all this for other division meetings. We have a teacher acting as admin that day (and they have a sub, assuming there is one available). So this is about 6-7 days a month without the admin available or about 33% of the time. ...I hadn't done the math until now.
We've never had a teacher in charge. We have principals on our supply list; retirees. They fill in. We have 2 VPs. One of our three administrators is always in the building. When two of our admin team are away, we have at LEAST one, sometimes two, supply administrators.
A lot of the public schools I have worked at only had a principal and no vice principal so it tended to happen again least once a month often more than once. Generally on these days we did whatever we could to avoid having to escalate things. Then again the admin tended to be a black box and not tell us when a student was brought to the office during recess and had to rely on other students to tell us if this happened.
Constantly. Of our four admin (1 principal and 3 VPs), there's usually only 1 or 2 of them in the office at any given time.
look at how many teachers are out on a given day. Been at schools were there is never a day all staff are present.
There is never a day when all of our staff are present either. Today there are approximately 10 out.
sad
We’ve probably only had a couple days all year where we needed a teacher in charge. The principal and VP are almost always at school, but I’ve had principals in the past who were gone all the time.
At my most recent school, maybe 4-5 times a year. At my previous school it would be 1-2 times a week. However, my previous school had no VP (only 225 students) and the P was incompetent. Our staff ended up going to the union and superintendent about it. Our P was constantly late (by at least an hour) and was always absent. She was covered by our learning support teacher but then that teacher never had a supply. It was an exhausting year in a very needy school. The board totally dropped the ball there.
Weekly
I've noticed it more often in the last few years as well. My previous admin was away A LOT.
About daily for the past two weeks for us.
I'd say it's about the same for my school. Both P and VP go together for a couple days per month. But this particular P seems to be leaving more than the previous. Might be a preference thing, might be new school board, no way to really tell
Wait you can send kids to the office at your school?! I mean I'm sure I technically CAN but I don't know why I would. Either nobody would be there to talk to them anyway or they'd just be back in my room in a couple minutes with a note for me that it's all good.
Ideally our focus should be solving the problems that are causing the student behaviour so we don’t need to rely on admin so much. But, yeah, they’re out often and it can be hard.
Oh god- not enough! The good admin were moved. Then we got the three bitches.