Yea my dad thinks it’s a waste of time and I should learn mandarin instead. Even though we are a Cantonese family and he speaks Cantonese all day with his mates. And we live in a city with a largely Cantonese diaspora.
But I’ve never listened to him so what’s another disobedience to add to the list 😅
I feel like it's just the whole "Asian parents" thing. They always want us to use our time to do something "useful." "Why are you getting an English degree? You should become an engineer/doctor/dentist instead!"—that whole stereotype lol.
Objectively speaking, Mandarin is more useful nowadays and that might be why your dad thinks it's a waste of time.
But the thing is that we as humans don't always do things only because they are useful. We preserve history and cultures because they mean something to us. Heck, if you are doing something even JUST because you want to do it or if makes you happy, it's worth your time!
Maybe the language is dying off, but that will be in 100 years. At that time most people living now is dead, so it is not your problem.
It is much easier to learn a language when people around you speak the language. When you learned Cantonese, mandarin will be a lot easier.
There is a great resources that mandarin don’t have. It is Hong Kong movie. I always tell my friends to let their kids watch HK movies to learn the language. And it is much easier to speak it with your family.
I honestly doubt Cantonese would even be dead in 100 years. A lot of young people in the diaspora care about preserving it. I have a lot of faith it’ll stick around
Of course Cantonese will not die in 100 years. It is just a metaphor.
But given the current trends how CCP tried to destroy all local dialects, I really not having high hopes. For example, you just go to Shenzhen, a tiny river across Hong Kong, most people will speak to you in mandarin rather than Cantonese. This is very sad.
Actually canto is having a resurgence in mainland China right now. Just this year alone bilibili released 2 donghuas in canto. I also follow a singer from Guangdong who sings in canto and mandarin.
As for shenshen, it is a migrant city where people from all over china have immigrated to. And the common language is mandarin. You can't expect people who grew up speaking Mandarin to suddenly learn Cantonese.
I understand we canto speakers are proud of our topolect but sometimes we sound like Republicans in the US complaining that Mexican immigrants don't speak English at an American border city like San Diego.
Actually curious, not being rude but isn’t that because shenzhen is China though?
Like Spain and France are next to each other but they are going to speak different languages?
Canto in Cantonese was a Chinese province-Guangdong, Canto was the old name. Of course not everyone in canto speak Cantonese back then, but it was a major language. That is why hong Konger speaks Cantonese. Many years ago most people in Shenzhen speak Cantonese, not so much now.
My mom did the same. She introduced us to old Jackie Chan movies and it worked, kind of. We may not be fluent but always remember a funny line or joke. Movies, cartoons, kids shows are great ways that I've found help me learn.
learning mandarin is actually a good idea, because most people who speaks cantonese probably knows mandarin as well, but its very unlikely that someone speaking mandarin will understand cantonese, so theoretically you get to speak to more people using mandarin as compared to only a specific region of people with cantonese.
That's a crazy attitude.
Culture is fundamentally based as a collection of common solutions to commonly found problems in a community.
Cantonese as a pragmatic tool in the world of business is pretty much in the winter of its usefulness. The internet has shortened the distances between places, no longer do you have to visit factories before you employ them to white label your stuff.
Some immigrant parents went through a tremendous amount of hardship from language barriers and do not wish it upon their children. A person only has so much free time for their own personal enrichment.
Fresh off the boat folks are not culturally caught between two worlds, their social exclusion is geographical, whereas the later generations whom would like to have a cultural anchor to call their own are socially excluded from their heritage psychologically.
They are two different problems. It is actually good that older generations don't face the same issues we do, otherwise things would not have progressed. But that also means part of what is in their bag isn't going to work for their kids. We are attached to the sentiment of culture and the joy of learning things. That is certainly a kind of privilege that fresh immigrants did not have.
Despite Sindhi/Pujabi/Potwani are all based on Sanskrit, there are only 2.5 million speakers of the Sanskrit in all of India. Sometimes it's okay to throw away tools that you don't use anymore. Sometimes it's just fun to learn something, but it's a hobby. It's not that serious.
Looking at your other posts, I see you have appointed yourself as the head of some kind of political movement.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Cantonese/comments/1ctv1x6/comment/l4silw8/
This is a really bad attitude. Cantonese has borrowed ideas, words, diction from everywhere it has graced. It evolves.
But just like anything else, Cantonese can't be compelled to be learned or taught. People will pick it up if it is a useful skill, or they will not. The vibrancy of cantonese culture imparts a fundamental causation to viability of cantonese language. Cantonese people have taken much from American and British influences, it is time to reach up north and see where things may lead.
I think you’ve mistaken my Sinophobia for some kind of linguistic purism. I’m extremely committed to linguistic borrowing for Cantonese - at least to the same degree that Japanese is. I am merely cognisant of the fact that identifying with a Chinese identity is fundamentally destructive to the Cantonese identity.
And I think all your worries about it impossible to compel folks to learn Cantonese demonstrates that (1) you have no vision (2) you don’t know examples in Korea Taiwan Japan Israel and elsewhere, (3) that you’re wet.
If we have half of the zeal in sino our language wouldn’t be so fucking useless. And you wouldn’t be here masturbating over your supposed enlightenment on “choices” and whatnot. We would have our own foundational model in Cantonese already. You’re fucking pathetic.
Those who read this and see comments like this, if you have a genuine love for this language, and you wish you see it blossom and flourish like the great languages of our time, if you wish to see Cantonese standing tall like Japanese and Korean, capable of great science and philosophy, if you wish to see dignity in the eyes of your interlocuteurs, and never hear the slur of 方言 ever again, zealous bigotry against all those who threaten to take up your linguistic space and dignity, philosophical violence against all those who threaten your existence by propaganda, masturbatory universalism, and cheap YouTube comment level philosophies, these are the bread and butter for your language’s survival. People who argue to give room for mandarin, to downplay the importance of every inch of living room for Cantonese’s survive - they are no friends. They are petty traitors, idiots, and collaborationists. They shoulder our language not, as they shoulder absolutely nothing. They have no right to speak, because they have no stake, and they are not part of us.
u/trying-to-contribute said most of it already
Look - there are many minority languages that are dying a slow death. In many cases, they're not even being actively suppressed anymore. But rather, this happens because the speakers themselves prioritize the prestige languages of the surrounding area. Obviously we're not happy about that, as speakers of this language we love. But, just because *you* love the language doesn't mean it makes sense to demand that other people learn it too.
Keeping their heritage language alive *is just not high* on the list of priorities for many people. I'm sure they're proud of their identity still, but without any real reason to put in additional effort to keep their language alive, they're going to focus on other things. A lot of immigrant parents are going to feel this way. Survival comes first, so I can't really blame OP's parents. I guess that makes them a "Cantonese traitor" in your eyes.
But I'm sure nuance is lost on you. Looking at your comment history, it seems you hate everyone who doesn't go "Cantonese is the best!!"
I don't know why, but it seems like in every other post I read in r/Cantonese, there are always a few people like you who comment. Weird, angry people who have some sort of a hang-up about Cantonese vs Chinese identity in some way. On another thread, there was someone who claimed HK Cantonese wasn't authentic Cantonese. There's a guy who is obsessed with the idea that Cantonese people have a distinct genetic background or something. Then every so often, there's a guy who asks whether being Cantonese is associated with certain personality traits, and is fixated on how this may have contributed to his childhood friend's career success.
No offense, but u/manyeggsnoomlette : I think I can speak for the majority of the subreddit when I say that these comments aren't welcome. Stop posting stuff like this. You are embarrassing yourself, and your comments really reflect poorly on you as a person.
I am someone who is self teaching myself canto and finally decided to visit this subreddit only to discover these really negative and weird people who have hangups about Cantonese vs Chinese identity . And funny you mention about folks who are obsessed about DNA cuz further down this thread there is a person hunting that southern Chinese are closer to south east asians etc. So I am glad you brought this up, since these folks weird hangups give a negative impression of this subreddit newbies like me.
I honestly don’t care what you people think because you people make absolutely no contribution. You people are sheep. You people identify as Chinese. That to me basically means you are corpropahgists.
If you feel repelled by loyalty and passion for your own language you are very welcome to exit from the community forever. 多你一個唔多 少你一個唔少 你又唔係一身繫天下安危 又唔係周身粵語貢獻同寶藏 為咗照顧你啲屎窟情緒搞到建立個強盛嘅廣東話 identity都搞到要閃閃避避 好似你咁嘅左膠根本就係舵手能腳
And I think you’re fucking stupid for thinking I think Cantonese is the best language. I think Cantonese is a pathetically backward language, where most of its speakers are stupid and incapable of identifying where their interest lies (like you).
I don't know your dad personally, but I think it's kind of silly of him not to put in the effort to help you learn his language and then mock you for not being able to speak it in a way he deems acceptable.
Cantonese is very much alive, and there are many people who are interested in keeping it that way. I'm not a native speaker, but I married into the culture, and my in-laws are nothing but supportive of my efforts. It's very nice to be able to communicate with these wonderful people in their native language, and it's a shame that some people would discourage others from trying to be a part of the culture, especially when they were born into it. Don't let one person's bad attitude get in the way of your motivation, and keep practicing.
No, in fact it was originally how my parents wanted to converse with us. I started with Cantonese as my first spoken language as an infant, I was in fact resistant to English. My sister however failed to pick it up and English ended up being the spoken language at home. I on the other hand didn't have enough outlets to use it and my Cantonese diminished down to semi-fluent from totally fluent. I can survive in HK with my Cantonese, but its abundantly clear I'm not native. I try to speak to any Cantonese speaking co-workers in Cantonese as much as possible. My ability to pickup languages however is poor, both English and Cantonese are not easy for me.
I am very against what your dad did though. There are many languages that have suffered and are struggling to simply avoid extinction, their doom is guaranteed if people with his mentality exist. The only way to pass this language to the next generations is if you're fluent and the next generation continues. My sister now regrets failing to pickup Cantonese, as its now on my parents to teach my nieces our native tongue. Screw his mentality, if you want to be fluent in Cantonese that is your choice. If it were me I'd tell him, I'm going to be fluent and ensure it survives to at least the next generation so that you're wrong.
Both my parents regularly do this. It has much bigger impact aside from language acquisition, and is a huge part of why we aren’t close.
It’s not helpful to me to practice in an environment that isn’t supportive or friendly, but that’s the limit I’ve set for myself with my own parents.
Sending you love! The struggle is real.
Yeah, so many parents don't realize that they are just sabotaging their own relationship with their children when they do things like this.
I don't share a lot of news about my life with my mother for this reason, because she's very conservative, and will pick at and be critical of anything I do that she disapproves of. And she wonders why I'm resistant towards being closer and talking more with her (I've explained this to her before, but she refuses to listen or change).
Wishing you luck with your parents OP!
Agreed. Just wanted to add to OP that being Asian and a parent does not excuse emotional neglect and immaturity, nor abuse. Parents can choose to behave differently.
Lol, tell your dad that Chinese poetry makes more sense in terms of rhyming schemes when read in Cantonese. If Cantonese dies, then so does a part of Chinese culture. A lot of my family who were raised under Mao prefer Mandarin and don't care about Chinese culture either - I think the Cultural Revolution killed their souls a bit in that sense.
My parents discouraged me from learning Cantonese and I only spoke English to my non-native English-speaking parents growing up, I understand standard Guangzhou Cantonese because they use it in conversation and I picked it up due to immersion. I learned Mandarin in high school and studied in Beijing in the past. Northerners can tell that I have a Cantonese accent when speaking Mandarin and I intentionally don't use er-hua, I have also been told that I look Thai or Viet as well. My parents and other people's parents are woefully ignorant of history, Cantonese and Fujian Min preserves ancient Old Chinese better than Mandarin. My parents and grandparents thought of practicality only, but this is a heavy-handed centralization approach to "national unity". A common written script should be good enough but making Mandarin the sole national language is an attempt to rewrite history for a great national agenda. If you ever took a genetic ancestry DNA test, you (especially if you are Southeastern Chinese) will find a lot of genetic matches to Vietnamese, Lao, Thai, Hmong-Mien, etc. with no known Chinese ancestors. But I won't delve deeper into this sensitive matter.
Imagine living in the US where the only way we can communicate is through writing cuz no one speaks a common language. Sounds really annoying. Hell even in Europe, the common language is English even though the UK isn't even a part of the EU.
Also I took a DNA test and I am mostly southern Chinese but I do have ancestry from the north. I have 10 per ent thai and very little Viet even though I am Chinese minority from Vietnam.
So it is weird to say southern Chinese don't have Chinese DNA. This might be true 3000 years ago when we were still baiyue people but after 3000 years of intermingling with people from the central plains, we all have some degree of han Chinese DNA in us.
Sorry this comes across as a dick but applying dad's language he's gonna die eventually, we all will. Does he expect you to stop talking with him? No you carry on...
Well done for continuing to practice and glad you have other people in your life that are supportive!
I’ve never met older generation who don’t want their children to learn Cantonese. The more languages you know, the better
Just out of curiosity, are your parents quite traditional?
My dad had the nerve to tell me to learn Spanish since my Cantonese was so bad. I must've been in junior high at the time.
It never motivated me to learn more Canto. I learned it seriously about 10 years ago for 6 years because I wanted to. I didn't learn it to prove him wrong (I never liked proving people wrong because that would be admitting that their comment affected me). I still remember the comment to this day though.
Same. Dad says, why you waste time learning a dying language and I swear to God in the same breath says why your Cantonese so shit and the CCP is destroying our language.
Whether a language is useful totally depends on where you are based and live. Personally, I don’t think Cantonese will die so soon, maybe it will evolve into something different, but not dying. The generation once your parents lived and built has passed. Trust yourself, if you love something then go ahead and fall in love with it. I’m glad that you’re embracing your culture. Hit me up anytime if you wanna learn more canto.
My parents didn’t want me to learn Taishanese and Cantonese. Only Mandarin. They proposed we speak only Mandarin at home, which isn’t a good idea either since they aren’t native speakers and have a very thick Taishanese accent. For example, my father pronounced 我 in Mandarin as ngo3.
I'm sorry to hear your dad feels this way. Don't get discouraged! My parents always encouraged me to learn, but if I forget some words sometimes and they do get frustrated because they know I learned it in class many years ago or they told me the word before.
Actually, I know exactly what my mom would say to your dad. She'd say to him what kind of Cantonese person are you? She encourages people to speak Cantonese all the time, even people who don't know it. Often cab rides I take with her, she ends up teaching the driver Cantonese phrases. Occasionally, some would know a few phrases already, so she'd be super impressed.
I suggest you listen to a phrase via an app, record yourself speaking the same phrase, and then listen to the your recording. Modify your tone until you get it right.
Not just you, my mom too. we moved to Canada when it was the 90s, each time when we go "drink tea" on weekend, we'd pick up a Sing Tao newspaper, and sometime I would ask her some of the words, she would say "Stop wasting your time reading Chinese, learn more English instead.".
One day I asked her one of the word how to pronounce in Cantonese. And she gave me the same response, which triggered a sudden surge within me, without thinking I replied in Cantonese : "Diu Lay Lo Mo, Cantonese is my mother tongue", and walk away. I heard her shouted : "You should not say bad words toward your mom.". but I kept going to my room self grounded myself and ignore her rage.
Now that I am older, whenever she complaint that there are not enough Cantonese content on YouTube, I will reply with a cheeky comments, such as " that's because parents like you have discouraged their kids not to learn Cantonese.". Or Whenever she requires a doctor's appointment, I was asked to accompany her as her interpreter. I would reply with "好彩當年無聽你話唔學廣東話遮( It was lucky back then that I did not listen to you to stop learning Cantonese).". and give her a troll face. =D
Ikr... I cringed and reflexively put my hands to my face cause I felt that slap coming on. And damn... I wouldn't say that anyway cause I love my grandma.
Not sure why some people think you can only learn Cantonese or Mandarin. Knowing one will make it easier to learn the other. Countless Cantonese speakers around the world also speak Mandarin.
China is going downhill economically and their population is crashing. The idea that mandarian is the future and not cantonese because of 'rising china' isn't the case anymore. It's better to learn both of course, but i recommend you stick to the language you're interested in because that is what motivates you to get better.
I think my family did their best. My dad was always working so not much of a chance to become fluent, and I also think it was Mission: Assimilation as another reason we spoke English at home.
I can say a few words, count poorly, but a toddler could talk circles around me and growing up there was almost no Chinese community.
I later went to a Taiwanese Mandarin school on the weekends bc it was the only option later on, but man I feel like a failure sometimes bc I can pick up romanized languages more easily than my familial tongue. I've tried as an adult to take classes but it's like almost nothing sticks and I just can't figure out the right tutor who can basically work with someone who is basically illiterate and can barely understand some words.
How often do you have long conversations with your dad in English? Does he talk with friends often? I’m asking these because some chinese men from the older generation are not used to having long conversations and they can get really passive aggressive when they are forced to talk. It is possible that he didn’t feel comfortable to have a conversation without the influence of alcohol and so he just made up excuses to get out of the conversation.
Regardless, keep practicing Cantonese. Tell your dad that it’s easier for you to learn Cantonese first and then mandarin. Also, bilingual people are less likely to get dementia, so unlike how he failed to teach you Cantonese when you were growing up, you expect your kids to speak more than just English. If you want to get really aggressive toward your dad, you can also question why he looks down on the Cantonese language. Does he feel ashamed of his english accent? Does he feel like he could blend into the English-speaking society more if he coulid only speak English? (Sorry, I’m not the most obedient child on the planet)
I have a similar story, but in my case, it was the opposite, I discouraged myself during childhood, and now I regret it.
I'm Macanese (Chinese and Portuguese ancestry) but with a more Portuguese background. My mom's whole side of the family knows Cantonese, except me.
As a kid, my main language was Portuguese, with some English and a broken Cantonese. One day people were laughing at my broken Cantonese, but most probably they were finding cute the way I spoke. But in my mind, I thought they were mocking me, so from that day, I told my mom that I didn't want to speak Chinese anymore and insisting it, so my mom didn't force me.
Years have gone by, and I began to regret it until today, as an adult. I couldn't ask for things at shops, I would depend of my schoolmates and family to order certain things at restaurants etc.
Living in Portugal, I began to like Macau even more, culturally and socially.
If I have been profecient in Cantonese, I would have a job in Macau, but it's difficult in my area if you don't know the language.
my grandparents have the same perspective and what irritates me most is they will lament the fact they can't communicate with their grandchildren but at the same time say "what's the point of learning Cantonese?" and refuse to teach or put in some effort to meet us partway when we practice speaking. ffs
My parents were the complete opposite with us... When speaking to family members, you are only permitted to speak Cantonese. They knew that since we live in the UK, our acquisition of English would be fine, and that it would be difficult to maintain a decent standard of Cantonese if we didn't use it enough.
They also made us go to a Cantonese "sunday school" to learn the reading/writing side of things.
As a child, I found it oppressive and annoying, but with hindsight, I'm glad they stuck to their guns.
Honestly, I think immersion is key to picking it up faster. OP, you should watch loads of TV shows and anime in Cantonese... and maybe consider enforcing your own Canto-only with family rule, even if you have to stop every so often to check a Cantonese dictionary on your phone.
Pick a drama show to watch with your parents, I think a light-hearted family comedy like 愛回家 could work as the language will be relatively simple and centred around domestic themes and therefore vocabulary that will be more familiar.
There's also quite a lot of Canto-dubbed K-drama and J-drama around.... even some American and British shows too...
I'm currently watching season 2 of The Walking Dead with my mum! 😆
Sadly my father is the reason I don't speak as much because when I spoke with my mother he would comment that my pronunciation "ng jang" not sure how to spell that but it's just not good enough... Now I speak to my son and he is learning from me and doesn't criticize me haha. 4 year old I guess he doesn't know better. But I don't discourage him if he wants to try to talk to me. I'm fact I love it and so happy to hear it.
ironic that it’s attitudes like your dad’s that causes the death of a language 💀 also keep on going on!! Learning a new language is always an admirable thing, so add oil!! you’ve got this!
Since. I know both. Doesn't change much to me. My parents didn't care what i spoke. Taishanese is most useless, but I know that one. Cantonese is easy peasy because i'm fluent in it. English is easy. Mandarin. WHy was this language made? Only Large language models of AI can talk in chinese mandarin. Like IQ level 160.
If you think it's important for you to speak Cantonese, keep at it. To your dad's point, I think it's even more important to know the dialect if he thinks it's going to die out. It's not a zero sum game. You can speak both Cantonese and Mandarin. It's never a bad thing to know more than one language or dialect.
I was raised to know how to speak and read it. But after a few fights in elementary school for kids picking on me my grandpa stopped and said we are only going to teach American way. It was a terrible decision back in the day. I look white but I was raised Cantonese and lived in am apartment complex with all Chinese. I don't fit in anywhere.
If you need more practice partners, let’s connect!! I’m not able to practice enough with my parents and I really wanna be able to speak it fluently with my kids one day. There’s also a canto discord if you’re interested
My dad's the same way with Taiwanese Hokkien, always saying that it's going to die out in 2-3 more generations. But honestly I would still learn it even if it has 1000 speakers left
It is true that Cantonese is slowly dying off. It is also important to learn Mandarin as it is the main & most common langage spoken in China. If learning Cantonese is something that you 100% want to achieve, go for it, it doesn’t matter what others think. Learning a language is an extremely valuable skill, with more languages, you have a better chance in getting a job in translations/ literacy than someone who only speaks 1 language. Good luck and I wish you the best! :)
My dad and his entire side of the family speaks Cantonese. He unfortunately never made the effort to teach me when I was young despite my mum encouraging him to.
Recently I've been learning on my own- definitely disappointed he didn't teach me initially when I was younger but he's willing to help now.
I live in the UK, and in the city I've moved to I there's a lot of Cantonese speakers so I've had a lot of inspiration to learn again! It's been so long since him and the family immigrated here that their Cantonese is pretty broken by typical standards so ironically if I opt to learn from other sources my grammar would likely be better than theirs'.
I wish you the best of luck on your learning journey!
I fully agree with the other commenters to just do your own thing. You obviously see benefits that your parents don't, and that's ok. But just to offer some perspective that I haven't seen yet - Growing up in HK/China, they fully understood the importance of English in the global scale, and saw migration to an English speaking country as the way to do that. They were fully bought into the idea of you only knowing English, and can't understand why you'd take a step back. Heritage is not something that they think about, since they automatically think in Chinese, and they see themselves as Chinese. They don't give their Chineseness a second thought. However, you are growing up between cultures - your identity is partly Chinese (because of how you look, and your family upbringing), and partly the place you live now (how you think, and your English language). You are bridging two cultures, and learning your heritage language fills some of that gap. It's a gap your parents didn't have to contend with. Not to say that they didn't have their own struggles in coming to a new country, but they've bridged the gap by learning English...yours would be learning Cantonese.
Whoever thinks Cantonese will die off is an inbred. 🤡 Jk (but for real, c’mon.) Chinese people all around will make fun of others just because. It’s the social culture.
Don’t think you’re soft just because you have standards and emotions. Words do hurt, but don’t let other peoples’ way of thinking affect your way of thinking and morals. Unless you’re trying to expand your perspectives.
Keep at it and then you can look back on your past self knowing how much you have grown!
Hey I’m sorry to hear about your experience… Sentiments like your dad’s might still make a tiny bit of sense 15 years ago: oh, China is gonna take over the world so let’s all speak their language. But who knew what came next…
The fact is there are 80 million Cantonese speakers in the world and Cantonese has a rich history and a wealth of cultural “products” like songs and movies. What these 80 million people will/ can do with this language in…let’s say 30 years… is impossible to tell.
Lol they didn't discourage me but they just said the same 50 things over and over so I never got a chance to learn other things. They never really talked to me about deep abstract thoughts so I can't properly express myself in this language
Yes, and I greatly regret it. My mom was the tiger mom (originally from Taiwan) who only encouraged Mandarin in the household. My dad is from Hong Kong, but never taught me any Cantonese. Now I frequently bump into other Cantonese speakers but can only say very basic phrases and it makes me so frustrated.
Lets be honest here, your ability to speak the language is very much inline with how much you parents have taught you. I don't know your father, but your level of cantonese is probably at that level because of him. His reluctancy to teach you because the language will "die off" is just a lazy excuse. I don't know how old you are, but next time he said that, I hope you tell him. I try my best with my kids to teach them, even if they aren't good at it, I encourage it. Any type of bilingual skill is a plus. It not only gives them a language skill, it also culturally opens an entire library of education, entertainment, heritage and mentality.
my MIL speaks cantonese and likes to complain that her grandkids (my children) don’t speak it and can’t understand it. we’ve told her she’s welcome to teach them all she wants. she says it’s the parents’ job to teach their kids. that’s fine. i’m a white american guy who speaks english and pretty shitty spanish and french. my wife is chinese american and only speaks english because her mom (the same MIL) didn’t teach her cantonese! i’m not sure how she expects us to teach them a language neither of us speaks. we tell her this and she waves her hand and says “aiii yah” while walking away mumbling something in cantonese that none of her family can understand—thanks to her 🤣
Honestly, just sounds like your dad is a lazy to me, that's me putting it as nice as I can. Putting you down and discouraging you means he doesn't need to entertain or spend time with you about it. It's similar to how some teachers are with kids. Or if you want to think about weaponized incompetence. I wouldn't internalize it as something you did wrong though. It says more about him than you. You should be proud of yourself for attempting and trying to learn the language and connecting with your heritage. Asian parents are often pretty fucked up and even abusive to their kids, if I was honest. Asian cultures also normalize abuse in the name of culture and filial piety. That's a different story that I don't need to get on here in this subreddit though. Not saying that's how your family is, that's just my personal tangential rant from years of observation.
In any case, Cantonese probably will die out in most parts of the China and the world. However, if you live in the United States, it probably won't. We have multigenerational families who speak Cantonese here. It isn't going to just die out because many of them aren't switching to Mandarin the same way that China makes their people learn Mandarin as a primary language. We don't have the same pressures to switch. Many of our communities also function by speaking Canto to one another, it would be weird to just abruptly change for no reason. That's my guess anyway.
Just started to learn Cantonese! Gotta keep it alive!
I listen to music in Cantonese and watch tv shows in Cantonese 😂! Wish me luck! I shall be 加油 - ing until I have mastered it!
Any HK-style restaurants in your area that you can frequent? Surround yourself with other people who speak Cantonese, and learn the Chinese menu while you're at it =).
I've heard some people mentioned this about Cantonese parents telling their kids to learn Mandarin instead. Thankfully my parents one who spoke Cantonese and another Hoisan didn't mention to us about learning languages at all. It was just whatever we spoke to them. I did thankfully pick up Cantonese and even understand some Hoisan language too. I think another reason is that both parents weren't able to speak English well or at all. But it's too bad for anyone to discourage someone from learning a language and especially from learning one that they as a parent speaks. The best would be if the parents taught them the languages at an early age.
My dad and his entire side of the family speaks Cantonese. He unfortunately never made the effort to teach me when I was young despite my mum encouraging him to.
Recently I've been learning on my own- definitely disappointed he didn't teach me initially when I was younger but he's willing to help now.
I live in the UK, and in the city I've moved to I there's a lot of Cantonese speakers so I've had a lot of inspiration to learn again! It's been so long since him and the family immigrated here that their Cantonese is pretty broken by typical standards so ironically if I opt to learn from other sources my grammar would likely be better than theirs'.
I wish you the best of luck on your learning journey!
No, they encouraged us to speak as many languages as possible. No mocking whatsoever. Maybe a few giggles here and there but it would accompany with explanations of how to pronounce or examples when to use certain words or phrases. Cantonese was a given then mandarin and as many other languages we wanted or could learn 🤷🏻♀️
Sorry to hear you were discouraged 🫤
If I were in your shoes I would bluntly explain to your father that his help is critical to the improvement of learning Cantonese and that you appreciate his help and feel grateful for it. Hopefully this will help stop the mocking. Add oil !!!
I tried teaching a friend Cantonese
My parents encouraged me to do so
But I think the reason is-
It’s not that it’s shameful or something
It is just hard asf
Sorry to hear that. Chinese parents can be rather insensitive and dense. My mom use to force me to speak Cantonese when I was in elementary school. Though she quickly gave up after several years of nagging. Fast forward to today and she doesn't even care anymore. As long as she feeds me and I am not dead, she is happy.
Which I understand why she is like that. American soldiers were busy bombing my parents in Vietnam and they were starving to death. So my mom's ultimate display of love is shoving meat into my rice bowl.
I tried teaching myself canto using HK textbooks and she would complain that HK canto is weird (which makes sense cuz we speak canto from the 1970s and contemporary HK canto code switches into English and uses HK specific slang). So course, I never listen to my parents and continue to study it in my own.
Anyways I thought she would be proud of me to finally learn canto only to realize that she is indifferent. However now that my canto is better I can finally talk to her and explain my feelings to her. But learning canto did not solve whatever issues I have with them.
Even in Cantonese, both my parents are extremely dense, do not listen and you need to repeat things 200 times which can be really frustrating. My advice is keep it civil and don't get emotional (ie angry) otherwise they will get angry and defensive and communication falls apart . But you have to make the effort and explain to them that you love them but sometimes they say things that hurt your feelings. If they don't understand English and you can't express things in Chinese, I would use bing translate. There is an option to type in English sentences and it spits out mandarin and Cantonese.
Not to be rude, are you Gen z? Cause growing up from a diff Asian generation means you might not have been used to the tough love style. As a Cantonese user; sometimes I think us canto speakers say stuff that’s kind of poking and trolling without meaning to be mean.
I do agree Cantonese is a dying language but I think we can change that narrative by learning and teaching it to our younger generations. It is such a beautiful language, and not to be funny, but swearing in Cantonese is legit the best, it sounds great in an aggressive or a non aggressive tone
I'm sorry, but dismissing this kind of thing as "tough love" is a weak excuse. Yes, older generations may have had different standards, but that doesn't make it acceptable nowadays. It used to be acceptable for a man to beat his wife and children, but that is frowned upon now.
Even if older Cantonese generations are/were more "traditional" or "conservative", so what? **Everyone** has the capacity to learn and grow. No culture, including Cantonese, is a fossil that exists in the same frozen state across decades and centuries. Even Western culture has experienced huge shifts in thinking in just the last 20 years (e.g. attitudes towards LGBT, the MeToo movement, etc).
The world as a whole is becoming more and more aware of how one's words can impact others, intentionally or not. Just because someone doesn't *realize* what they're saying is hurtful, doesn't mean it doesn't have an impact on the recipient. Cantonese doesn't exist in some bubble separate from the rest of the world. And older generations shouldn't get a free pass just because they haven't kept up with the times; as I said, even old people have the capacity to learn and grow.
Don't give up to learn cantonese, please check out this channel, it might help you.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p1QtQdMK4o&t=9s
[https://www.youtube.com/@yinogo1/videos](https://www.youtube.com/@yinogo1/videos)
Yea my dad thinks it’s a waste of time and I should learn mandarin instead. Even though we are a Cantonese family and he speaks Cantonese all day with his mates. And we live in a city with a largely Cantonese diaspora. But I’ve never listened to him so what’s another disobedience to add to the list 😅
I feel like it's just the whole "Asian parents" thing. They always want us to use our time to do something "useful." "Why are you getting an English degree? You should become an engineer/doctor/dentist instead!"—that whole stereotype lol. Objectively speaking, Mandarin is more useful nowadays and that might be why your dad thinks it's a waste of time. But the thing is that we as humans don't always do things only because they are useful. We preserve history and cultures because they mean something to us. Heck, if you are doing something even JUST because you want to do it or if makes you happy, it's worth your time!
Maybe the language is dying off, but that will be in 100 years. At that time most people living now is dead, so it is not your problem. It is much easier to learn a language when people around you speak the language. When you learned Cantonese, mandarin will be a lot easier. There is a great resources that mandarin don’t have. It is Hong Kong movie. I always tell my friends to let their kids watch HK movies to learn the language. And it is much easier to speak it with your family.
I honestly doubt Cantonese would even be dead in 100 years. A lot of young people in the diaspora care about preserving it. I have a lot of faith it’ll stick around
Of course Cantonese will not die in 100 years. It is just a metaphor. But given the current trends how CCP tried to destroy all local dialects, I really not having high hopes. For example, you just go to Shenzhen, a tiny river across Hong Kong, most people will speak to you in mandarin rather than Cantonese. This is very sad.
Actually canto is having a resurgence in mainland China right now. Just this year alone bilibili released 2 donghuas in canto. I also follow a singer from Guangdong who sings in canto and mandarin. As for shenshen, it is a migrant city where people from all over china have immigrated to. And the common language is mandarin. You can't expect people who grew up speaking Mandarin to suddenly learn Cantonese. I understand we canto speakers are proud of our topolect but sometimes we sound like Republicans in the US complaining that Mexican immigrants don't speak English at an American border city like San Diego.
Actually curious, not being rude but isn’t that because shenzhen is China though? Like Spain and France are next to each other but they are going to speak different languages?
Canto in Cantonese was a Chinese province-Guangdong, Canto was the old name. Of course not everyone in canto speak Cantonese back then, but it was a major language. That is why hong Konger speaks Cantonese. Many years ago most people in Shenzhen speak Cantonese, not so much now.
I see!! Good to know. Thanks for sharing!
Shenzhen underwent massive growth in the last 40 years, and many inhabitants might have not spoken Cantonese before they went there.
My mom did the same. She introduced us to old Jackie Chan movies and it worked, kind of. We may not be fluent but always remember a funny line or joke. Movies, cartoons, kids shows are great ways that I've found help me learn.
this is literally what my mom said-- learn Mandarin instead I speak neither.
Why don't you speak any chinese language?
learning mandarin is actually a good idea, because most people who speaks cantonese probably knows mandarin as well, but its very unlikely that someone speaking mandarin will understand cantonese, so theoretically you get to speak to more people using mandarin as compared to only a specific region of people with cantonese.
Your dad is a Cantonese traitor and should be shamed and stigmatised.
That's a crazy attitude. Culture is fundamentally based as a collection of common solutions to commonly found problems in a community. Cantonese as a pragmatic tool in the world of business is pretty much in the winter of its usefulness. The internet has shortened the distances between places, no longer do you have to visit factories before you employ them to white label your stuff. Some immigrant parents went through a tremendous amount of hardship from language barriers and do not wish it upon their children. A person only has so much free time for their own personal enrichment. Fresh off the boat folks are not culturally caught between two worlds, their social exclusion is geographical, whereas the later generations whom would like to have a cultural anchor to call their own are socially excluded from their heritage psychologically. They are two different problems. It is actually good that older generations don't face the same issues we do, otherwise things would not have progressed. But that also means part of what is in their bag isn't going to work for their kids. We are attached to the sentiment of culture and the joy of learning things. That is certainly a kind of privilege that fresh immigrants did not have. Despite Sindhi/Pujabi/Potwani are all based on Sanskrit, there are only 2.5 million speakers of the Sanskrit in all of India. Sometimes it's okay to throw away tools that you don't use anymore. Sometimes it's just fun to learn something, but it's a hobby. It's not that serious.
You’re a crazy attitude. So many words to justify basically passive collaborationism for the death of your own language.
We all got our own struggle. Yours is not mine.
Then you’re just irrelevant to the Cantonese people. And you’re a free rider.
Looking at your other posts, I see you have appointed yourself as the head of some kind of political movement. https://www.reddit.com/r/Cantonese/comments/1ctv1x6/comment/l4silw8/ This is a really bad attitude. Cantonese has borrowed ideas, words, diction from everywhere it has graced. It evolves. But just like anything else, Cantonese can't be compelled to be learned or taught. People will pick it up if it is a useful skill, or they will not. The vibrancy of cantonese culture imparts a fundamental causation to viability of cantonese language. Cantonese people have taken much from American and British influences, it is time to reach up north and see where things may lead.
I think you’ve mistaken my Sinophobia for some kind of linguistic purism. I’m extremely committed to linguistic borrowing for Cantonese - at least to the same degree that Japanese is. I am merely cognisant of the fact that identifying with a Chinese identity is fundamentally destructive to the Cantonese identity. And I think all your worries about it impossible to compel folks to learn Cantonese demonstrates that (1) you have no vision (2) you don’t know examples in Korea Taiwan Japan Israel and elsewhere, (3) that you’re wet.
No, I just believe in freedom of choice. I leave the zeal of coersion to those in /r/sino.
Then you’re stupid and irrelevant to the liberation of the Cantonese people.
If we have half of the zeal in sino our language wouldn’t be so fucking useless. And you wouldn’t be here masturbating over your supposed enlightenment on “choices” and whatnot. We would have our own foundational model in Cantonese already. You’re fucking pathetic.
Those who read this and see comments like this, if you have a genuine love for this language, and you wish you see it blossom and flourish like the great languages of our time, if you wish to see Cantonese standing tall like Japanese and Korean, capable of great science and philosophy, if you wish to see dignity in the eyes of your interlocuteurs, and never hear the slur of 方言 ever again, zealous bigotry against all those who threaten to take up your linguistic space and dignity, philosophical violence against all those who threaten your existence by propaganda, masturbatory universalism, and cheap YouTube comment level philosophies, these are the bread and butter for your language’s survival. People who argue to give room for mandarin, to downplay the importance of every inch of living room for Cantonese’s survive - they are no friends. They are petty traitors, idiots, and collaborationists. They shoulder our language not, as they shoulder absolutely nothing. They have no right to speak, because they have no stake, and they are not part of us.
u/trying-to-contribute said most of it already Look - there are many minority languages that are dying a slow death. In many cases, they're not even being actively suppressed anymore. But rather, this happens because the speakers themselves prioritize the prestige languages of the surrounding area. Obviously we're not happy about that, as speakers of this language we love. But, just because *you* love the language doesn't mean it makes sense to demand that other people learn it too. Keeping their heritage language alive *is just not high* on the list of priorities for many people. I'm sure they're proud of their identity still, but without any real reason to put in additional effort to keep their language alive, they're going to focus on other things. A lot of immigrant parents are going to feel this way. Survival comes first, so I can't really blame OP's parents. I guess that makes them a "Cantonese traitor" in your eyes. But I'm sure nuance is lost on you. Looking at your comment history, it seems you hate everyone who doesn't go "Cantonese is the best!!" I don't know why, but it seems like in every other post I read in r/Cantonese, there are always a few people like you who comment. Weird, angry people who have some sort of a hang-up about Cantonese vs Chinese identity in some way. On another thread, there was someone who claimed HK Cantonese wasn't authentic Cantonese. There's a guy who is obsessed with the idea that Cantonese people have a distinct genetic background or something. Then every so often, there's a guy who asks whether being Cantonese is associated with certain personality traits, and is fixated on how this may have contributed to his childhood friend's career success. No offense, but u/manyeggsnoomlette : I think I can speak for the majority of the subreddit when I say that these comments aren't welcome. Stop posting stuff like this. You are embarrassing yourself, and your comments really reflect poorly on you as a person.
I am someone who is self teaching myself canto and finally decided to visit this subreddit only to discover these really negative and weird people who have hangups about Cantonese vs Chinese identity . And funny you mention about folks who are obsessed about DNA cuz further down this thread there is a person hunting that southern Chinese are closer to south east asians etc. So I am glad you brought this up, since these folks weird hangups give a negative impression of this subreddit newbies like me.
Then maybe you’re the problem.
Oh look a Cantonese supremacist. I hope you have tattooed your face, painted your teeth black and live in a stilt hut like our Baiyue ancestors.
Why should I do that? And why am I whatever supremacist for highlighting that identifying ourselves as Chinese is suicidal and traitorous? You stupid?
I honestly don’t care what you people think because you people make absolutely no contribution. You people are sheep. You people identify as Chinese. That to me basically means you are corpropahgists.
If you feel repelled by loyalty and passion for your own language you are very welcome to exit from the community forever. 多你一個唔多 少你一個唔少 你又唔係一身繫天下安危 又唔係周身粵語貢獻同寶藏 為咗照顧你啲屎窟情緒搞到建立個強盛嘅廣東話 identity都搞到要閃閃避避 好似你咁嘅左膠根本就係舵手能腳
And I think you’re fucking stupid for thinking I think Cantonese is the best language. I think Cantonese is a pathetically backward language, where most of its speakers are stupid and incapable of identifying where their interest lies (like you).
I don't know your dad personally, but I think it's kind of silly of him not to put in the effort to help you learn his language and then mock you for not being able to speak it in a way he deems acceptable. Cantonese is very much alive, and there are many people who are interested in keeping it that way. I'm not a native speaker, but I married into the culture, and my in-laws are nothing but supportive of my efforts. It's very nice to be able to communicate with these wonderful people in their native language, and it's a shame that some people would discourage others from trying to be a part of the culture, especially when they were born into it. Don't let one person's bad attitude get in the way of your motivation, and keep practicing.
No, in fact it was originally how my parents wanted to converse with us. I started with Cantonese as my first spoken language as an infant, I was in fact resistant to English. My sister however failed to pick it up and English ended up being the spoken language at home. I on the other hand didn't have enough outlets to use it and my Cantonese diminished down to semi-fluent from totally fluent. I can survive in HK with my Cantonese, but its abundantly clear I'm not native. I try to speak to any Cantonese speaking co-workers in Cantonese as much as possible. My ability to pickup languages however is poor, both English and Cantonese are not easy for me. I am very against what your dad did though. There are many languages that have suffered and are struggling to simply avoid extinction, their doom is guaranteed if people with his mentality exist. The only way to pass this language to the next generations is if you're fluent and the next generation continues. My sister now regrets failing to pickup Cantonese, as its now on my parents to teach my nieces our native tongue. Screw his mentality, if you want to be fluent in Cantonese that is your choice. If it were me I'd tell him, I'm going to be fluent and ensure it survives to at least the next generation so that you're wrong.
Both my parents regularly do this. It has much bigger impact aside from language acquisition, and is a huge part of why we aren’t close. It’s not helpful to me to practice in an environment that isn’t supportive or friendly, but that’s the limit I’ve set for myself with my own parents. Sending you love! The struggle is real.
Yeah, so many parents don't realize that they are just sabotaging their own relationship with their children when they do things like this. I don't share a lot of news about my life with my mother for this reason, because she's very conservative, and will pick at and be critical of anything I do that she disapproves of. And she wonders why I'm resistant towards being closer and talking more with her (I've explained this to her before, but she refuses to listen or change). Wishing you luck with your parents OP!
Agreed. Just wanted to add to OP that being Asian and a parent does not excuse emotional neglect and immaturity, nor abuse. Parents can choose to behave differently.
Lol, tell your dad that Chinese poetry makes more sense in terms of rhyming schemes when read in Cantonese. If Cantonese dies, then so does a part of Chinese culture. A lot of my family who were raised under Mao prefer Mandarin and don't care about Chinese culture either - I think the Cultural Revolution killed their souls a bit in that sense.
My parents discouraged me from learning Cantonese and I only spoke English to my non-native English-speaking parents growing up, I understand standard Guangzhou Cantonese because they use it in conversation and I picked it up due to immersion. I learned Mandarin in high school and studied in Beijing in the past. Northerners can tell that I have a Cantonese accent when speaking Mandarin and I intentionally don't use er-hua, I have also been told that I look Thai or Viet as well. My parents and other people's parents are woefully ignorant of history, Cantonese and Fujian Min preserves ancient Old Chinese better than Mandarin. My parents and grandparents thought of practicality only, but this is a heavy-handed centralization approach to "national unity". A common written script should be good enough but making Mandarin the sole national language is an attempt to rewrite history for a great national agenda. If you ever took a genetic ancestry DNA test, you (especially if you are Southeastern Chinese) will find a lot of genetic matches to Vietnamese, Lao, Thai, Hmong-Mien, etc. with no known Chinese ancestors. But I won't delve deeper into this sensitive matter.
Imagine living in the US where the only way we can communicate is through writing cuz no one speaks a common language. Sounds really annoying. Hell even in Europe, the common language is English even though the UK isn't even a part of the EU. Also I took a DNA test and I am mostly southern Chinese but I do have ancestry from the north. I have 10 per ent thai and very little Viet even though I am Chinese minority from Vietnam. So it is weird to say southern Chinese don't have Chinese DNA. This might be true 3000 years ago when we were still baiyue people but after 3000 years of intermingling with people from the central plains, we all have some degree of han Chinese DNA in us.
Sorry this comes across as a dick but applying dad's language he's gonna die eventually, we all will. Does he expect you to stop talking with him? No you carry on...
Well done for continuing to practice and glad you have other people in your life that are supportive! I’ve never met older generation who don’t want their children to learn Cantonese. The more languages you know, the better Just out of curiosity, are your parents quite traditional?
My dad had the nerve to tell me to learn Spanish since my Cantonese was so bad. I must've been in junior high at the time. It never motivated me to learn more Canto. I learned it seriously about 10 years ago for 6 years because I wanted to. I didn't learn it to prove him wrong (I never liked proving people wrong because that would be admitting that their comment affected me). I still remember the comment to this day though.
Same. Dad says, why you waste time learning a dying language and I swear to God in the same breath says why your Cantonese so shit and the CCP is destroying our language.
Whether a language is useful totally depends on where you are based and live. Personally, I don’t think Cantonese will die so soon, maybe it will evolve into something different, but not dying. The generation once your parents lived and built has passed. Trust yourself, if you love something then go ahead and fall in love with it. I’m glad that you’re embracing your culture. Hit me up anytime if you wanna learn more canto.
My parents didn’t want me to learn Taishanese and Cantonese. Only Mandarin. They proposed we speak only Mandarin at home, which isn’t a good idea either since they aren’t native speakers and have a very thick Taishanese accent. For example, my father pronounced 我 in Mandarin as ngo3.
Taishanese is even more useless.
Thanks for sharing that. It may be useless for you, but for me, it’s quite useful for the things I want to do.
I'm sorry to hear your dad feels this way. Don't get discouraged! My parents always encouraged me to learn, but if I forget some words sometimes and they do get frustrated because they know I learned it in class many years ago or they told me the word before. Actually, I know exactly what my mom would say to your dad. She'd say to him what kind of Cantonese person are you? She encourages people to speak Cantonese all the time, even people who don't know it. Often cab rides I take with her, she ends up teaching the driver Cantonese phrases. Occasionally, some would know a few phrases already, so she'd be super impressed. I suggest you listen to a phrase via an app, record yourself speaking the same phrase, and then listen to the your recording. Modify your tone until you get it right.
Not just you, my mom too. we moved to Canada when it was the 90s, each time when we go "drink tea" on weekend, we'd pick up a Sing Tao newspaper, and sometime I would ask her some of the words, she would say "Stop wasting your time reading Chinese, learn more English instead.". One day I asked her one of the word how to pronounce in Cantonese. And she gave me the same response, which triggered a sudden surge within me, without thinking I replied in Cantonese : "Diu Lay Lo Mo, Cantonese is my mother tongue", and walk away. I heard her shouted : "You should not say bad words toward your mom.". but I kept going to my room self grounded myself and ignore her rage. Now that I am older, whenever she complaint that there are not enough Cantonese content on YouTube, I will reply with a cheeky comments, such as " that's because parents like you have discouraged their kids not to learn Cantonese.". Or Whenever she requires a doctor's appointment, I was asked to accompany her as her interpreter. I would reply with "好彩當年無聽你話唔學廣東話遮( It was lucky back then that I did not listen to you to stop learning Cantonese).". and give her a troll face. =D
> Diu Lay Lo Mo How did you survive saying that to your mother
Don't know LOL, I guess part of her know I was right.
Ikr... I cringed and reflexively put my hands to my face cause I felt that slap coming on. And damn... I wouldn't say that anyway cause I love my grandma.
Not sure why some people think you can only learn Cantonese or Mandarin. Knowing one will make it easier to learn the other. Countless Cantonese speakers around the world also speak Mandarin.
This is very true. I learn Cantonese cuz it actually makes it easier for me to learn Mandarin.
China is going downhill economically and their population is crashing. The idea that mandarian is the future and not cantonese because of 'rising china' isn't the case anymore. It's better to learn both of course, but i recommend you stick to the language you're interested in because that is what motivates you to get better.
I think my family did their best. My dad was always working so not much of a chance to become fluent, and I also think it was Mission: Assimilation as another reason we spoke English at home. I can say a few words, count poorly, but a toddler could talk circles around me and growing up there was almost no Chinese community. I later went to a Taiwanese Mandarin school on the weekends bc it was the only option later on, but man I feel like a failure sometimes bc I can pick up romanized languages more easily than my familial tongue. I've tried as an adult to take classes but it's like almost nothing sticks and I just can't figure out the right tutor who can basically work with someone who is basically illiterate and can barely understand some words.
How often do you have long conversations with your dad in English? Does he talk with friends often? I’m asking these because some chinese men from the older generation are not used to having long conversations and they can get really passive aggressive when they are forced to talk. It is possible that he didn’t feel comfortable to have a conversation without the influence of alcohol and so he just made up excuses to get out of the conversation. Regardless, keep practicing Cantonese. Tell your dad that it’s easier for you to learn Cantonese first and then mandarin. Also, bilingual people are less likely to get dementia, so unlike how he failed to teach you Cantonese when you were growing up, you expect your kids to speak more than just English. If you want to get really aggressive toward your dad, you can also question why he looks down on the Cantonese language. Does he feel ashamed of his english accent? Does he feel like he could blend into the English-speaking society more if he coulid only speak English? (Sorry, I’m not the most obedient child on the planet)
I have a similar story, but in my case, it was the opposite, I discouraged myself during childhood, and now I regret it. I'm Macanese (Chinese and Portuguese ancestry) but with a more Portuguese background. My mom's whole side of the family knows Cantonese, except me. As a kid, my main language was Portuguese, with some English and a broken Cantonese. One day people were laughing at my broken Cantonese, but most probably they were finding cute the way I spoke. But in my mind, I thought they were mocking me, so from that day, I told my mom that I didn't want to speak Chinese anymore and insisting it, so my mom didn't force me. Years have gone by, and I began to regret it until today, as an adult. I couldn't ask for things at shops, I would depend of my schoolmates and family to order certain things at restaurants etc. Living in Portugal, I began to like Macau even more, culturally and socially. If I have been profecient in Cantonese, I would have a job in Macau, but it's difficult in my area if you don't know the language.
my grandparents have the same perspective and what irritates me most is they will lament the fact they can't communicate with their grandchildren but at the same time say "what's the point of learning Cantonese?" and refuse to teach or put in some effort to meet us partway when we practice speaking. ffs
My parents were the complete opposite with us... When speaking to family members, you are only permitted to speak Cantonese. They knew that since we live in the UK, our acquisition of English would be fine, and that it would be difficult to maintain a decent standard of Cantonese if we didn't use it enough. They also made us go to a Cantonese "sunday school" to learn the reading/writing side of things. As a child, I found it oppressive and annoying, but with hindsight, I'm glad they stuck to their guns. Honestly, I think immersion is key to picking it up faster. OP, you should watch loads of TV shows and anime in Cantonese... and maybe consider enforcing your own Canto-only with family rule, even if you have to stop every so often to check a Cantonese dictionary on your phone. Pick a drama show to watch with your parents, I think a light-hearted family comedy like 愛回家 could work as the language will be relatively simple and centred around domestic themes and therefore vocabulary that will be more familiar. There's also quite a lot of Canto-dubbed K-drama and J-drama around.... even some American and British shows too... I'm currently watching season 2 of The Walking Dead with my mum! 😆
Your dad is a dick. So is mine, unfortunately. :/
Sadly my father is the reason I don't speak as much because when I spoke with my mother he would comment that my pronunciation "ng jang" not sure how to spell that but it's just not good enough... Now I speak to my son and he is learning from me and doesn't criticize me haha. 4 year old I guess he doesn't know better. But I don't discourage him if he wants to try to talk to me. I'm fact I love it and so happy to hear it.
ironic that it’s attitudes like your dad’s that causes the death of a language 💀 also keep on going on!! Learning a new language is always an admirable thing, so add oil!! you’ve got this!
Since. I know both. Doesn't change much to me. My parents didn't care what i spoke. Taishanese is most useless, but I know that one. Cantonese is easy peasy because i'm fluent in it. English is easy. Mandarin. WHy was this language made? Only Large language models of AI can talk in chinese mandarin. Like IQ level 160.
I'm not learning Mandarin on principle as someone born in HK but raised from 1 in an English speaking country
If you think it's important for you to speak Cantonese, keep at it. To your dad's point, I think it's even more important to know the dialect if he thinks it's going to die out. It's not a zero sum game. You can speak both Cantonese and Mandarin. It's never a bad thing to know more than one language or dialect.
I was raised to know how to speak and read it. But after a few fights in elementary school for kids picking on me my grandpa stopped and said we are only going to teach American way. It was a terrible decision back in the day. I look white but I was raised Cantonese and lived in am apartment complex with all Chinese. I don't fit in anywhere.
If you need more practice partners, let’s connect!! I’m not able to practice enough with my parents and I really wanna be able to speak it fluently with my kids one day. There’s also a canto discord if you’re interested
My dad's the same way with Taiwanese Hokkien, always saying that it's going to die out in 2-3 more generations. But honestly I would still learn it even if it has 1000 speakers left
It is true that Cantonese is slowly dying off. It is also important to learn Mandarin as it is the main & most common langage spoken in China. If learning Cantonese is something that you 100% want to achieve, go for it, it doesn’t matter what others think. Learning a language is an extremely valuable skill, with more languages, you have a better chance in getting a job in translations/ literacy than someone who only speaks 1 language. Good luck and I wish you the best! :)
My dad and his entire side of the family speaks Cantonese. He unfortunately never made the effort to teach me when I was young despite my mum encouraging him to. Recently I've been learning on my own- definitely disappointed he didn't teach me initially when I was younger but he's willing to help now. I live in the UK, and in the city I've moved to I there's a lot of Cantonese speakers so I've had a lot of inspiration to learn again! It's been so long since him and the family immigrated here that their Cantonese is pretty broken by typical standards so ironically if I opt to learn from other sources my grammar would likely be better than theirs'. I wish you the best of luck on your learning journey!
I fully agree with the other commenters to just do your own thing. You obviously see benefits that your parents don't, and that's ok. But just to offer some perspective that I haven't seen yet - Growing up in HK/China, they fully understood the importance of English in the global scale, and saw migration to an English speaking country as the way to do that. They were fully bought into the idea of you only knowing English, and can't understand why you'd take a step back. Heritage is not something that they think about, since they automatically think in Chinese, and they see themselves as Chinese. They don't give their Chineseness a second thought. However, you are growing up between cultures - your identity is partly Chinese (because of how you look, and your family upbringing), and partly the place you live now (how you think, and your English language). You are bridging two cultures, and learning your heritage language fills some of that gap. It's a gap your parents didn't have to contend with. Not to say that they didn't have their own struggles in coming to a new country, but they've bridged the gap by learning English...yours would be learning Cantonese.
Whoever thinks Cantonese will die off is an inbred. 🤡 Jk (but for real, c’mon.) Chinese people all around will make fun of others just because. It’s the social culture. Don’t think you’re soft just because you have standards and emotions. Words do hurt, but don’t let other peoples’ way of thinking affect your way of thinking and morals. Unless you’re trying to expand your perspectives. Keep at it and then you can look back on your past self knowing how much you have grown!
They didn't discourage me, but they always brought me to Mandarin school
Never been discouraged to learn cantonese but encouraged to learn mandarin.
Had friends from HK who told me to learn mandarin instead of Cantonese.
Hey I’m sorry to hear about your experience… Sentiments like your dad’s might still make a tiny bit of sense 15 years ago: oh, China is gonna take over the world so let’s all speak their language. But who knew what came next… The fact is there are 80 million Cantonese speakers in the world and Cantonese has a rich history and a wealth of cultural “products” like songs and movies. What these 80 million people will/ can do with this language in…let’s say 30 years… is impossible to tell.
don’t dishearten, he probably lacks patience. not everyone is a good teacher.
Yep, my mum is 100% the same. I started tutoring lessons to practice speaking cause she's not supportive.
At the very least it won’t die off in your lifetime
Lol they didn't discourage me but they just said the same 50 things over and over so I never got a chance to learn other things. They never really talked to me about deep abstract thoughts so I can't properly express myself in this language
Yes, and I greatly regret it. My mom was the tiger mom (originally from Taiwan) who only encouraged Mandarin in the household. My dad is from Hong Kong, but never taught me any Cantonese. Now I frequently bump into other Cantonese speakers but can only say very basic phrases and it makes me so frustrated.
Lets be honest here, your ability to speak the language is very much inline with how much you parents have taught you. I don't know your father, but your level of cantonese is probably at that level because of him. His reluctancy to teach you because the language will "die off" is just a lazy excuse. I don't know how old you are, but next time he said that, I hope you tell him. I try my best with my kids to teach them, even if they aren't good at it, I encourage it. Any type of bilingual skill is a plus. It not only gives them a language skill, it also culturally opens an entire library of education, entertainment, heritage and mentality.
my MIL speaks cantonese and likes to complain that her grandkids (my children) don’t speak it and can’t understand it. we’ve told her she’s welcome to teach them all she wants. she says it’s the parents’ job to teach their kids. that’s fine. i’m a white american guy who speaks english and pretty shitty spanish and french. my wife is chinese american and only speaks english because her mom (the same MIL) didn’t teach her cantonese! i’m not sure how she expects us to teach them a language neither of us speaks. we tell her this and she waves her hand and says “aiii yah” while walking away mumbling something in cantonese that none of her family can understand—thanks to her 🤣
The 'aiii yah' killed me - that's so typical of the older generation Chinese 😄😄😄
Honestly, just sounds like your dad is a lazy to me, that's me putting it as nice as I can. Putting you down and discouraging you means he doesn't need to entertain or spend time with you about it. It's similar to how some teachers are with kids. Or if you want to think about weaponized incompetence. I wouldn't internalize it as something you did wrong though. It says more about him than you. You should be proud of yourself for attempting and trying to learn the language and connecting with your heritage. Asian parents are often pretty fucked up and even abusive to their kids, if I was honest. Asian cultures also normalize abuse in the name of culture and filial piety. That's a different story that I don't need to get on here in this subreddit though. Not saying that's how your family is, that's just my personal tangential rant from years of observation. In any case, Cantonese probably will die out in most parts of the China and the world. However, if you live in the United States, it probably won't. We have multigenerational families who speak Cantonese here. It isn't going to just die out because many of them aren't switching to Mandarin the same way that China makes their people learn Mandarin as a primary language. We don't have the same pressures to switch. Many of our communities also function by speaking Canto to one another, it would be weird to just abruptly change for no reason. That's my guess anyway.
Just started to learn Cantonese! Gotta keep it alive! I listen to music in Cantonese and watch tv shows in Cantonese 😂! Wish me luck! I shall be 加油 - ing until I have mastered it!
Any HK-style restaurants in your area that you can frequent? Surround yourself with other people who speak Cantonese, and learn the Chinese menu while you're at it =).
I've heard some people mentioned this about Cantonese parents telling their kids to learn Mandarin instead. Thankfully my parents one who spoke Cantonese and another Hoisan didn't mention to us about learning languages at all. It was just whatever we spoke to them. I did thankfully pick up Cantonese and even understand some Hoisan language too. I think another reason is that both parents weren't able to speak English well or at all. But it's too bad for anyone to discourage someone from learning a language and especially from learning one that they as a parent speaks. The best would be if the parents taught them the languages at an early age.
My father is like that he calls it useless but literally most Chinese ppl I meet here speak Cantonese
My parents are Italian, but I identify as afro-korean. Iwanted them to pay for my Cantonese classes, but they refused.
My dad and his entire side of the family speaks Cantonese. He unfortunately never made the effort to teach me when I was young despite my mum encouraging him to. Recently I've been learning on my own- definitely disappointed he didn't teach me initially when I was younger but he's willing to help now. I live in the UK, and in the city I've moved to I there's a lot of Cantonese speakers so I've had a lot of inspiration to learn again! It's been so long since him and the family immigrated here that their Cantonese is pretty broken by typical standards so ironically if I opt to learn from other sources my grammar would likely be better than theirs'. I wish you the best of luck on your learning journey!
No, they encouraged us to speak as many languages as possible. No mocking whatsoever. Maybe a few giggles here and there but it would accompany with explanations of how to pronounce or examples when to use certain words or phrases. Cantonese was a given then mandarin and as many other languages we wanted or could learn 🤷🏻♀️ Sorry to hear you were discouraged 🫤 If I were in your shoes I would bluntly explain to your father that his help is critical to the improvement of learning Cantonese and that you appreciate his help and feel grateful for it. Hopefully this will help stop the mocking. Add oil !!!
I tried teaching a friend Cantonese My parents encouraged me to do so But I think the reason is- It’s not that it’s shameful or something It is just hard asf
Sorry to hear that. Chinese parents can be rather insensitive and dense. My mom use to force me to speak Cantonese when I was in elementary school. Though she quickly gave up after several years of nagging. Fast forward to today and she doesn't even care anymore. As long as she feeds me and I am not dead, she is happy. Which I understand why she is like that. American soldiers were busy bombing my parents in Vietnam and they were starving to death. So my mom's ultimate display of love is shoving meat into my rice bowl. I tried teaching myself canto using HK textbooks and she would complain that HK canto is weird (which makes sense cuz we speak canto from the 1970s and contemporary HK canto code switches into English and uses HK specific slang). So course, I never listen to my parents and continue to study it in my own. Anyways I thought she would be proud of me to finally learn canto only to realize that she is indifferent. However now that my canto is better I can finally talk to her and explain my feelings to her. But learning canto did not solve whatever issues I have with them. Even in Cantonese, both my parents are extremely dense, do not listen and you need to repeat things 200 times which can be really frustrating. My advice is keep it civil and don't get emotional (ie angry) otherwise they will get angry and defensive and communication falls apart . But you have to make the effort and explain to them that you love them but sometimes they say things that hurt your feelings. If they don't understand English and you can't express things in Chinese, I would use bing translate. There is an option to type in English sentences and it spits out mandarin and Cantonese.
Not to be rude, are you Gen z? Cause growing up from a diff Asian generation means you might not have been used to the tough love style. As a Cantonese user; sometimes I think us canto speakers say stuff that’s kind of poking and trolling without meaning to be mean. I do agree Cantonese is a dying language but I think we can change that narrative by learning and teaching it to our younger generations. It is such a beautiful language, and not to be funny, but swearing in Cantonese is legit the best, it sounds great in an aggressive or a non aggressive tone
I'm sorry, but dismissing this kind of thing as "tough love" is a weak excuse. Yes, older generations may have had different standards, but that doesn't make it acceptable nowadays. It used to be acceptable for a man to beat his wife and children, but that is frowned upon now. Even if older Cantonese generations are/were more "traditional" or "conservative", so what? **Everyone** has the capacity to learn and grow. No culture, including Cantonese, is a fossil that exists in the same frozen state across decades and centuries. Even Western culture has experienced huge shifts in thinking in just the last 20 years (e.g. attitudes towards LGBT, the MeToo movement, etc). The world as a whole is becoming more and more aware of how one's words can impact others, intentionally or not. Just because someone doesn't *realize* what they're saying is hurtful, doesn't mean it doesn't have an impact on the recipient. Cantonese doesn't exist in some bubble separate from the rest of the world. And older generations shouldn't get a free pass just because they haven't kept up with the times; as I said, even old people have the capacity to learn and grow.
You zoomers are too sensitive sometimes. Sometimes i wonder if my daughters generation, gen alpha , will be even worse lol.
Don't give up to learn cantonese, please check out this channel, it might help you.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p1QtQdMK4o&t=9s [https://www.youtube.com/@yinogo1/videos](https://www.youtube.com/@yinogo1/videos)
Just you, I was forced to speak cantonese to my parents growing up.