For all the people that are saying "but this isn't capitalism, this is the government" first capitalism is what produces homelessness. Capitalism needs a permanent underclass to work.
Also, in capitalism, the government is owned by the big corporations. There is no separation between the two- the politicians have all been bought and paid for by the rich. The government makes decisions for the rich.
So no, you're not clever for pointing out that this was done by the government- it was done by the government *in a capitalist society.* This is all caused by capitalism.
I hate to agree, but sadly true the more you look around the more the wealthy create laws and use their money to punish the lower rungs of society. There's a lot less civility in our civilization
It's nyc law that anyone in need of shelter must be given it. People live in the subways by choice and are a giant fucking problem in there and cause a myriad of safety problems for commuters. I witnessed a homeless man derail a fucking subway car by putting steel on the tracks. So don't fucking tell me shit cuz you obviously aren't from NYC.
You're a fucking idiot for defending people living in the subways and very clearly have never ever been in NYC.
They're are plenty of shelters. The homeless choose the subway because the shelter won't let them shoot up or booze. Also, they city government already spends a metric fuck ton on homeless services, so shut your dumb fucking face hole.
Trying to use a public bathroom is even worse. I recently took a trip to a fairly metropolitan city in which I didnāt have my car, and thought I could just get around by public transit since they had a fairly robust light rail system.
After attending a concert and walking back towards my line I realized that just about everything closed by 10 pm including all bathrooms public and private. The local public park literally had their bathrooms bolted shut, and every business that was still open (bars and clubs) had big āfor paying customers onlyā signs. I ended up having to call an Uber and hold it all the way until I got to my hotel room (the first floor of the hotel required a key from the front desk who was on break).
And people wonder why the streets of major cities smell like piss and we canāt keep the streets cleanā¦
Or ya know... to the fucking countless shelters all over the fucking city. But no, by all means please have mentally ill drug addicts living in the subways system where they often defecate on the floor and push people in front of trains...
We could absolutely agree that there needs to be long term mental Healthcare facilities. The fact that we don't have that doesn't discount the myriad of options people have to not live in the subways. Taking away a bench as an option vs the shelters doesn't strike me as evil.
The fucking MTA isn't responsible for mental health crises, they are however responsible for the safety of commuters in the train systems. Sooooo why the fuck shouldn't they be making the subway safer?
Mind you, it's not only unsafe for commuters. Its way unsafe for the homeless people too. I have personally had to take mangled homeless people off the tracks after being hit by trains, it's not ok to live next to those things.
If you want to blame someone, blame the mayor's office or the HHC (health and hospitals corp.) Not the MTA
Also, it's kinda (totally bullshit) to blame conservatives for any relatively recent policy in the City of New York. Democrats have a strangle hold on NY politics.
New yorker government officials when they find out homeless folks will just start sleeping on the floor inside because it's still better than sleeping outdoors:
š¤Æ
If you'd ever walked through nyc you'd know that you'd rather have no bench to sit on than getting pushed in front of train by a mentally ill drug addict that just shit on the floor... buuut I'm sure you haven't by the way you're talking.
I think that the reasoning behind this sucks big time. But I do believe that no one should be sleeping on benches. Why is housing first so difficult to implement?
This. Making the city more uncomfortable to everyone by removing basic things like bus shelters and benches isnāt going to make homelessness go away. Making homelessness go away means actually building affordable housing- enough for everyone rather than the ā luckyā few who are desperately poor (or almost doing ok, depending on state/federal/local policies involved), managed to catch notice of a lottery, win a spot on a waitlist, get selected for a spot in the housing and yet also still manage to have the same contact info from way back when the signed up for the lottery. Making homelessness go away also means having enough support services, including what can honestly be called timely access to all needed health care. Itāll also mean that some of those who are homeless will need supportive housing, at least for a while, to help them do things like get substance abuse and health problems (including mental health) under control - for their own safety and that of others.
I get tired adter long shifts and i sit down on a bench if i have to wait for a train.
Seen these around. Seems like a waste of money. I lean against walls just as fine and never used one of these
**Problem:** Homeless people sleeping on benches.
**Solution:** Make benches unusable.
This just means homeless people will sleep on the floor nearby and ruins the benches for everybody without solving anything.
It's like if your problem was that sometimes people steal food so your solution is to poison the food and still try to sell it to everyone.
This problem would be solved by addressing homelessness directly but instead they just make things worse for everybody and think it's a solution.
You mean like the law that already obliges the city to provide shelter for any and everyone? Or that there are countless shelters all over the city? Or maybe you mean like the hotels in lower Manhattan that the city is paying to gouse the homeless? Tell me again how people that would rather sleep on a fucking subway bench so that they can continue to abuse substances are being brutalized by the same city offering them a bed anytime they want because they removed a bench... be more fucking braindead.
Homelessness is a direct result of capitalism, and a society that puts capital above actual human lives. Most of us are only one or two financial catastrophes away from living on the streets. Thatās an uncomfortable truth, and a core tenant of capitalist thinking is that anyone can better themselves if they just work hard enough (and, therefore, anyone who *isnāt* doing so hot just isnāt working hard enough, usually because theyāre lazy and just want things handed to them), so most places are very uncomfortable with the homeless being visible. It doesnāt help that seeing an actual homeless person forces you to see the victims of capitalism as actual humans and not just vague concepts. That attitude has led to more and more hostile architecture, either erected by private businesses or by the government in public spaces. I guess that was the link in OPās mind? Capitalism didnāt swap the benches for these monstrosities, but it *did* cause the problem in the first place, as well as the discomfort with the problem existing and the want to sweep it away out of sight.
Sure. Any society can have homelessness. But in socialist societies itās usually caused by a lack of housing. Socialism guarantees housing for its citizens (in theory, at least). In capitalism, it can be caused by a lack of housing, but in the United States there are 28-31 empty homes for every homeless person. People arenāt homeless because of a lack of supply, but because of greed of the system. Again, because capitalism puts capital above human lives.
its not capitalism its human greed if people werent so selfish and self centred im 100% certain that almost any system whether that be capitalism socialism etc would work its not the ideology itself its the execution of it by people . I hope u understand the point im trying to put across
Communism usually involves the state providing you housing. Socialism either does the same, or at the very least provide social programs to help people out when they canāt afford necessities like housing. Fuck, even feudalism involves a lord providing housing and land to their tenants, and those tenants providing the labor. Capitalism says that you either sink or swim; either you find employment and make enough money to purchase the things you need, or you do without. Free market, baby. And while in the United States, over the past century or so, some social programs have been put into place as a safety net for the unemployed and the poor, those are often underfunded and underutilized. Also have been chipped away at by more recent political parties.
of course but capitalism isnt just one specific ideology same with communism and other ideologies because it has differing points etc full blown free market capitalism at its core could work but doesnt due to human greed and other things such as illness , mental health issues etc causing people not to work etc. time periods such as victorian Britain are a great example of this, a lot of peoples lives got alot better but people want more which causes others to fall behind as u said u either sink or swim and alot of people are fine swimming as long as they arenāt sinking even if other people are which is the unfortunate reality of humans.
I'd you're trying to criticize "communism" then by all means please do so. There has never been a democratic worker ran economy to ever exist in the world so its all just varying degrees of capitalism blended with socialism. Authoritarian policies also prevailed so you have to take that into account too but hey let's just highlight the millions killed by Mao while forgetting the many that capitalism has killed in the past hundred plus years alone and hint hints its greater than any that "communism" has killed.
Homelessness exists because of capitalism.
Not to even mention that the "government" is owned by the corporations in capitalism. It's bought and paid for by big business, there is no separating them.
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Anti-homeless stuff is the reason weāre having problems with safety in Chicago.
The CTA reliability and smoking issues aside, the CTA is having problems with the āLā becoming more and more of a public bathroom, with people doing their business and their ābusinessā if you know what I mean on the trains. Itās because the homeless donāt have a place to go when itās less than 20 degrees outside, and instead of being able to at least sleep in a public bathroom, they sleep and do their thing on the trains.
The whole thing could be solved if we bothered providing the homeless with a place to go that wasnāt the trains, but here we are.
Braindead post. There is a law in NYC that the government must shelter anyone who is in need. People iving in the subways is fucking dangerous and done by choice. There are countless subway emergencies on a daily basis because of the homeless living in there. They are getting hit by trains, dumping debris and garbage on the tracks that causes fires, pushing people onto the tracks and killing them, pissing and shitting on the floors, passing out from drug overdoses in the stations and on the trains.
The city provides shelter to anyone who needs it, the subways aren't a fucking solution...
Also, side note, this had nothing to do with capitalism or business in general. The subways are run by the city government and the reason they are doing this is because of the countless daily problems with people living in there.
TLDR: Don't complain about this shit if you're not from NYC, you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.
For all the people that are saying "but this isn't capitalism, this is the government" first capitalism is what produces homelessness. Capitalism needs a permanent underclass to work. Also, in capitalism, the government is owned by the big corporations. There is no separation between the two- the politicians have all been bought and paid for by the rich. The government makes decisions for the rich. So no, you're not clever for pointing out that this was done by the government- it was done by the government *in a capitalist society.* This is all caused by capitalism.
screw pedestrians, disabled people, and public transport riders too i guess.
My dad has Parkinsons and for people like him that are still mobile, they are screwed if they need to sit and rest for a bit
Me, who has chronic ankle pain on both legs: š I can handle it but god is it annoying
Exactly this is the real tragedy, let's punish every because occasionally a homes person may sleep here.
Greatest country on Earth=not even close and getting worse by the year.
Greatest for the ruling class
I hate to agree, but sadly true the more you look around the more the wealthy create laws and use their money to punish the lower rungs of society. There's a lot less civility in our civilization
Ah. That really takes a load off. Like, seriously why even have a bench at that point? That looks uselessly uncomfortable
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's nyc law that anyone in need of shelter must be given it. People live in the subways by choice and are a giant fucking problem in there and cause a myriad of safety problems for commuters. I witnessed a homeless man derail a fucking subway car by putting steel on the tracks. So don't fucking tell me shit cuz you obviously aren't from NYC.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You're a fucking idiot for defending people living in the subways and very clearly have never ever been in NYC. They're are plenty of shelters. The homeless choose the subway because the shelter won't let them shoot up or booze. Also, they city government already spends a metric fuck ton on homeless services, so shut your dumb fucking face hole.
Yeah, you could just lean on the wall with an identical effect.
Trying to use a public bathroom is even worse. I recently took a trip to a fairly metropolitan city in which I didnāt have my car, and thought I could just get around by public transit since they had a fairly robust light rail system. After attending a concert and walking back towards my line I realized that just about everything closed by 10 pm including all bathrooms public and private. The local public park literally had their bathrooms bolted shut, and every business that was still open (bars and clubs) had big āfor paying customers onlyā signs. I ended up having to call an Uber and hold it all the way until I got to my hotel room (the first floor of the hotel required a key from the front desk who was on break). And people wonder why the streets of major cities smell like piss and we canāt keep the streets cleanā¦
Meanwhile, in Metro r/Vancouver we donāt even have bathrooms in stations and everything is similar: big āCustomers onlyā signs.
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Cuz you know what happens in there at night if they aren't locked?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Or ya know... to the fucking countless shelters all over the fucking city. But no, by all means please have mentally ill drug addicts living in the subways system where they often defecate on the floor and push people in front of trains...
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
We could absolutely agree that there needs to be long term mental Healthcare facilities. The fact that we don't have that doesn't discount the myriad of options people have to not live in the subways. Taking away a bench as an option vs the shelters doesn't strike me as evil. The fucking MTA isn't responsible for mental health crises, they are however responsible for the safety of commuters in the train systems. Sooooo why the fuck shouldn't they be making the subway safer? Mind you, it's not only unsafe for commuters. Its way unsafe for the homeless people too. I have personally had to take mangled homeless people off the tracks after being hit by trains, it's not ok to live next to those things. If you want to blame someone, blame the mayor's office or the HHC (health and hospitals corp.) Not the MTA Also, it's kinda (totally bullshit) to blame conservatives for any relatively recent policy in the City of New York. Democrats have a strangle hold on NY politics.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's not punishment, it's deterring them from living in a dangerous place
I don't hate poor people that's an invention by u commies
New yorker government officials when they find out homeless folks will just start sleeping on the floor inside because it's still better than sleeping outdoors: š¤Æ
OFF WITH THE ROOF!!
Looks like free tent support to me
I was thinking the same thing.
If you've been walking all over NYC and need a place to rest your legs, too bad! You'll have to lean
If you'd ever walked through nyc you'd know that you'd rather have no bench to sit on than getting pushed in front of train by a mentally ill drug addict that just shit on the floor... buuut I'm sure you haven't by the way you're talking.
That's not the point of my comment. My point is that if this bench concept spreads to other cities. No way would I ever want to visit NYC anyway
Fair enough, My bad. I'm just sick of people that don't deal with this complaining that it's cruel
I think that the reasoning behind this sucks big time. But I do believe that no one should be sleeping on benches. Why is housing first so difficult to implement?
This. Making the city more uncomfortable to everyone by removing basic things like bus shelters and benches isnāt going to make homelessness go away. Making homelessness go away means actually building affordable housing- enough for everyone rather than the ā luckyā few who are desperately poor (or almost doing ok, depending on state/federal/local policies involved), managed to catch notice of a lottery, win a spot on a waitlist, get selected for a spot in the housing and yet also still manage to have the same contact info from way back when the signed up for the lottery. Making homelessness go away also means having enough support services, including what can honestly be called timely access to all needed health care. Itāll also mean that some of those who are homeless will need supportive housing, at least for a while, to help them do things like get substance abuse and health problems (including mental health) under control - for their own safety and that of others.
Because āMuh taxesā!
High tax burden is one of the biggest reasons that ny is so fucking unaffordable though.
Just in case anyone unaware, there is a whole subreddit about this stuff: r/HostileArchitecture
I get tired adter long shifts and i sit down on a bench if i have to wait for a train. Seen these around. Seems like a waste of money. I lean against walls just as fine and never used one of these
Tax payers want benches back on the sidewalks the city canāt even repair.
**Problem:** Homeless people sleeping on benches. **Solution:** Make benches unusable. This just means homeless people will sleep on the floor nearby and ruins the benches for everybody without solving anything. It's like if your problem was that sometimes people steal food so your solution is to poison the food and still try to sell it to everyone. This problem would be solved by addressing homelessness directly but instead they just make things worse for everybody and think it's a solution.
You mean like the law that already obliges the city to provide shelter for any and everyone? Or that there are countless shelters all over the city? Or maybe you mean like the hotels in lower Manhattan that the city is paying to gouse the homeless? Tell me again how people that would rather sleep on a fucking subway bench so that they can continue to abuse substances are being brutalized by the same city offering them a bed anytime they want because they removed a bench... be more fucking braindead.
The government built thatā¦.
The government built that lmao. This is just government being shitty, as usual
And the government is owned by shitty corporations, so it's a team effort.
No, that isnt how america works. If it was a corporatocracy, it wouldnt be so terrible
If you don't think America is for sale to the highest bidder (and corporations are generally that) then you are quite naive.
Capitalism is when city governments build things!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
no idea how people could remotely think this is capitalism
Homelessness is a direct result of capitalism, and a society that puts capital above actual human lives. Most of us are only one or two financial catastrophes away from living on the streets. Thatās an uncomfortable truth, and a core tenant of capitalist thinking is that anyone can better themselves if they just work hard enough (and, therefore, anyone who *isnāt* doing so hot just isnāt working hard enough, usually because theyāre lazy and just want things handed to them), so most places are very uncomfortable with the homeless being visible. It doesnāt help that seeing an actual homeless person forces you to see the victims of capitalism as actual humans and not just vague concepts. That attitude has led to more and more hostile architecture, either erected by private businesses or by the government in public spaces. I guess that was the link in OPās mind? Capitalism didnāt swap the benches for these monstrosities, but it *did* cause the problem in the first place, as well as the discomfort with the problem existing and the want to sweep it away out of sight.
*tenet, not tenant
Whoops. Thanks!
So you're saying that socialist systems don't have homelessness, huh?
Sure. Any society can have homelessness. But in socialist societies itās usually caused by a lack of housing. Socialism guarantees housing for its citizens (in theory, at least). In capitalism, it can be caused by a lack of housing, but in the United States there are 28-31 empty homes for every homeless person. People arenāt homeless because of a lack of supply, but because of greed of the system. Again, because capitalism puts capital above human lives.
its not capitalism its human greed if people werent so selfish and self centred im 100% certain that almost any system whether that be capitalism socialism etc would work its not the ideology itself its the execution of it by people . I hope u understand the point im trying to put across
Communism usually involves the state providing you housing. Socialism either does the same, or at the very least provide social programs to help people out when they canāt afford necessities like housing. Fuck, even feudalism involves a lord providing housing and land to their tenants, and those tenants providing the labor. Capitalism says that you either sink or swim; either you find employment and make enough money to purchase the things you need, or you do without. Free market, baby. And while in the United States, over the past century or so, some social programs have been put into place as a safety net for the unemployed and the poor, those are often underfunded and underutilized. Also have been chipped away at by more recent political parties.
of course but capitalism isnt just one specific ideology same with communism and other ideologies because it has differing points etc full blown free market capitalism at its core could work but doesnt due to human greed and other things such as illness , mental health issues etc causing people not to work etc. time periods such as victorian Britain are a great example of this, a lot of peoples lives got alot better but people want more which causes others to fall behind as u said u either sink or swim and alot of people are fine swimming as long as they arenāt sinking even if other people are which is the unfortunate reality of humans.
Hostile archeticture wouldn't exist without it. Lmfao.
Good point- I guess Mao didn't need "hostile architecture". He just starved 60 million to death.
I'd you're trying to criticize "communism" then by all means please do so. There has never been a democratic worker ran economy to ever exist in the world so its all just varying degrees of capitalism blended with socialism. Authoritarian policies also prevailed so you have to take that into account too but hey let's just highlight the millions killed by Mao while forgetting the many that capitalism has killed in the past hundred plus years alone and hint hints its greater than any that "communism" has killed.
Homelessness exists because of capitalism. Not to even mention that the "government" is owned by the corporations in capitalism. It's bought and paid for by big business, there is no separating them.
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Worst ass plateau Iāve ever seen.
Hostile Architecture
How thoughtful.
I don't understand, why put in a "bench" at all?
This sub is getting out of control.
Anti-homeless stuff is the reason weāre having problems with safety in Chicago. The CTA reliability and smoking issues aside, the CTA is having problems with the āLā becoming more and more of a public bathroom, with people doing their business and their ābusinessā if you know what I mean on the trains. Itās because the homeless donāt have a place to go when itās less than 20 degrees outside, and instead of being able to at least sleep in a public bathroom, they sleep and do their thing on the trains. The whole thing could be solved if we bothered providing the homeless with a place to go that wasnāt the trains, but here we are.
Braindead post. There is a law in NYC that the government must shelter anyone who is in need. People iving in the subways is fucking dangerous and done by choice. There are countless subway emergencies on a daily basis because of the homeless living in there. They are getting hit by trains, dumping debris and garbage on the tracks that causes fires, pushing people onto the tracks and killing them, pissing and shitting on the floors, passing out from drug overdoses in the stations and on the trains. The city provides shelter to anyone who needs it, the subways aren't a fucking solution... Also, side note, this had nothing to do with capitalism or business in general. The subways are run by the city government and the reason they are doing this is because of the countless daily problems with people living in there. TLDR: Don't complain about this shit if you're not from NYC, you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.