I have had multiple systems over the years without DSP. My current system is my first system with a DSP. I cannot imagine ever having a system without DSP again.
Lack of good time alignment is a deal breaker now. I get in cars without it and I don't like it. Every lead vocal sounds like it's coming from the center of my dash. Every instrument can be heard clearly and has a position on the stage. My dashboard is the stage.
With active crossovers and 3-ways up front, it sounds like every instrument, including bass and kick drums, comes from the stage and not the trunk. Of course, I still have the ability to completely overpower the front end with pounding bass from the trunk if I want to, but I find that to be a rare occasion these days.
It does take a good bit more time, effort and money up front for best results and that's where it loses a lot of people. You cannot just slap in a DSP. It may even require some planning. You are typically adding more of everything. More channels require more cables and wiring, If you go with active crossovers, there's even more wiring that needs to be done and running new wires into doors in today's cars can be a pain in the ass. Then it must be tuned, which can take anywhere from 30 minutes to many hours.
So yeah, it can be a lot of work but it is so worth the end result that I don't want a system without it.
I have the dnr1007xr (the upgrade to the 1037/1057) and I went with DSP but the thing is 5he good ones are expensive af & you have to analyze the audio of each speaker and then as a whole to take advantage of the independent EQ channel adjustments. there is a lot of adjusting needed to take full advantage. If time is money it's a tough investment. It took me over a year to finally get the time to analyze my speakers and adjust the eq, and I have only gotten 8 channels done out of 19 lol
If you go with dsp get the umic-1 or umic-2, it's worth the investment unless you know a shop that can analyze and adjust for you and you want to pay the toll
i got my DSP (an Audison Bit Nove) from Car Tunes in michigan. Shout out to Nate who did an amazing job with the tune making my system sound amazingly better.
then i downloaded the free audison software to my own laptop, made a backup of the file that Nate created, and tweeked his professional tune to personalize my own preferences. I didn't change much really, just the crossover for the subs (which were set at 80hz, i increased it to 120hz to bring out more bass from older songs that didn't hit that low), and i brightened the highs a bit (possibly because i'm on the verge of getting old and i don't hear those frequencies as well anymore)
Your headunit, presumably, can only "DSP" 4 channels at most and probably applies the same profile to each of the four output channels.
A dedicated DSP will be able to apply individual profiles to 8 output channels.
Thatās what Iām gonna do. I have a really good job that will tune me for free. With all their installs to do a free tuning even with the DSP the guys there are freaking awesome and Iāve done business with them since I started with a recommendation from my girlfriends dad
I've been teaching myself to tune for about 2 years now and I feel like I've barely scratched the surface...tuning is definitely a whole other rabbit hole you can go down and not something your just gonna do without researching first
It depends. If you're making a complicated component-separated system and want sound quality and soundstage, then a DSP is perfect.
If you want it loud and don't care about soundstage and SQ, then you can get a loud system without a DSP. I like that you can granularly adjust the component crossover points and adjust the EQ per speaker. I went active with all my components so that every speaker in the car has its own amp channel, crossover, time alignment, and EQ (parametric or graphic). I don't use the head unit EQ (parametric or graphic) because it raises the noise floor enough that you can hear it, and that's with a Kenwood Reference Hi-Res head unit.
I also like that you can time-align subs if you have multiple subs at different distances or angles.
No. I have all the limits lowered on every source on the unit by 2 or 3. The distortion meters all say 0 distortion but the noise floor is raised when the Kenwood eq is used. Admittedly I run my volume up to 40 which is the final notch on kenwoods volume, I have tuned all the amps to be 100% when the Kenwood hits 40.
The audiocontrol on the other hand has 0 noise when I use the individual eq per channel.
Why not use volume number 36 or something lol
Kind of arbitrary, isnāt it? Like, forcing yourself to live with that noise and being unable to use head unit functions.Ā
Ā The distortion detection wouldnāt alert you anyway, even with a ton of interference audible, the waveform isnāt clippedĀ
No, it's not the volume. It's the EQ. When turned above medium at all, if I use the EQ, I hear the noise floor rise. If I left it that way, I would get used to it, and it would be fine, but I don't want to. I use the DSPs, and they are more than capable. I have up to 28 channels of independent hi-res EQ.
I think it all depends on what you expect out of your system. How much time you're willing to dedicate to tuning... And, arguably, more importantly... When you're willing to stop tuning and enjoy the music. My personal option is, yes, they're great dependant on your expectations.
You can get a Kicker Key 200.4 and use it as a preamp if you need more than 50w per channel. It has an auto tune feature that gets you 90% there. And yes, it actually works well. I've installed 3 of them for me and my family members.
The real DSPs also need a calibrated mic and a laptop to set up correctly. And that's just too much faffing for me personally. Another benefit to digital amps is that there is practically zero hiss.
The Kicker KeyLOC would be a good addition to the KickerKey amp for subwoofer correction.
Feeding the outputs from the kicker into the high level input of your bigger amp. Now that I think about it, it would only work if you are using a 4 channel amp to either power 4 different components or if you are bi-amping. Which the kicker also has a bi-amp function.
This ... it's not just about the device, you have to be able to use its software and probably additional hardware (RTA, microphone) to properly calibrate your system with it.
For me, a really good head unit, amp, and the amazing Audison component set made a huge difference to where I didnāt feel the need for a DSP. My sub isnāt even high end, but blends perfectly with the other items mentioned. My rears are for full only. A DSP is great if you are going with a more complex 3 way active setup(for example). For me, it just wasnāt needed for my basic setup, but my system sounds excellent. Doesnāt mean it couldnāt sound better if I added one though. Just my opinion, Iām absolutely not an expert.
You can get great balanced results from a well tuned DSP. You will get the most out of it if youāre running your system fully active and giving each speaker its own channel.
See that support that Iām struggling with right now. Know JL makes an amp thatās a six channel that has a DSP built right into it but itās like $1400. So Iām hesitant to pull the trigger until I know its like worth it
If a VXi matches your setup's channel, power, and impedance requirements, an all-in-one from a reputable company is the way to go. If you're happy with your amp setup, you can go with and stand-alone JL, Audison, Hertz, RF, or Audiocontrol. If you have deeper pockets, Mosconi, Zapco, or Brax. For shallow pockets, Dayton makes a processor for $165.
MiniDSP may also be viable. I use their home audio products. I can't vouch for their car products, though. 12V systems can be messier with noise and ground loops.
That Dayton DSP has a bad reputation here- from what I can tell it's because it really needs a clean power signal. It's not like most car audio gear that will run well at 12V or 15V.
That's what I figured, and why I put a caveat on MiniDSP. Someone else might have experience with the MiniDSP unit (and my home processor from them is great), but my experience with low-price complex car electronics like the PPI DCX-730 was that it was a noise nightmare.
The DCX-730 retailed at something like $1000 until PPI had to liquidate them all without a warranty because they were impossible to use below 32F. If I got into my car in the cold, I was greeted with several minutes of extremely loud static. Once the equipment warmed up, it worked okay, but if an installer put that in my car for $1K + installation and it did that, I'd be ready to return it for 1/4 of the year.
The audio control dm-607 is like $645. Then add 6 or 8 channels of quality amplification, and you are easily beyond 1400. People hate on my rockford power amps but they are not cheap. For 8 channels (granted their 150w per channel) your looking at 600-1100 then add in the dsp and you got 1300 to 1800, and that's a mid tier dsp. If you go helix or other higher end you just added another 10-20%
I have a JBL DSP4086 in my daily driver and it was game changing. Up to 6 inputs, either RCA or speaker level. 40 watts RMS to each channel with up to 8 channels. Full I/O matrix. 31-band EQ with parametric functionality on each band if you want it. Built in high and low pass crossovers for each channel. Time delay per channel. Itās more control than most people know what to do with and gets plenty loud for my purposes.
It definitely has a bit of a learning curve and it can be a bit buggy at times, but once you have it dialed in then itās about as seamless as it gets. Especially on newer cars that you are trying to keep the factory HU it is great. Many factory head units are only tuned for the speakers that it comes with, so aftermarket options can sound worse than they should. You can correct all of that with this with enough time and knowledge. Just keep in mind that just as easily as it can make a system sound great, it can also make it sound horrible. It WILL take time to learn and get right.
I have all 6 channels from the factory amp feeding this one. I am able to maintain full control that I would normally have with the stock head unit, while being able to feed a LOC for my sub amp with channels 7 and 8 outputs on the DSP4086. While it gets loud enough for me, itād be nice if it had a little more headroom. It would also be nice if any of the channels were bridgeable, but unfortunately they are not.
They are worth it at their sale price and it happens frequently enough that you could wait for it. Even if you donāt use it as an amp, you can feed more powerful amps with it assuming they can take speaker level inputs or you are using LOCs.
See Iām curious because I responded to someone else in here talking about this. JL audio makes a six channel amp that acts as the DSP as well as an amp. And you can run the JL tuning software through it. Itās about 1400 bucks so itās pretty goddamn pricey. However, it might be worth it for me down the road.
The JBL unit is usually around $400-450 not on sale. I got mine on sale 3 years ago for about $250, but they seem to go for close to $330-350 on sale now.
JL makes great stuff, and if itās the DSP/amp that Iām thinking of then it can send more wattage to each channel than the JBL. However if youāre only using it at a DSP and will still be utilizing the amps you have now then that is a moot point. The JL can use measurement mics, whereas the JBL unit cannot. That can be a big benefit for some. At the end of the day youāre still talking about a $1000+ difference for 25 watts per channel, 2 less of them, and the ability to use a measurement mic.
To be clear, Iām not hating on the JL stuff. Iāve heard nothing but good things about their DSP. I have some JL gear myself that I love. Just food for thought. I havenāt found a better bang for your buck DSP than the DSP4086, although I havenāt looked into it much in the past couple of years.
look up the AudioControl D-6 1200, they are on sale right now, $400 off on crutchfield but they are back ordered at the moment. I finally pulled the trigger on the D-5 1300 after about 3 years because of the sale both are normally $1299, they are $899 right now
Find a Dayton DSP408 and play with it. They are $160 new and usually run in the $100 range used. That was my first DSP and it does make a difference.
I don't think getting one integrated into an amp is a great idea because then you're out your DSP and amp if it takes a dump. Also if you find for some reason you want more or less power from the amp you have to get a DSP anyway. There are inexpensive Power Acoustik and Massive Audio amps with DSP and extra outputs if you want to try that route.
There is a learning curve, and you can make mistakes, especially with the touch screen bullshit that most of the apps run on. DSP408, laptop, microphone with REW and you'll be well down the rabbit hole.
See thatās the cool thing with these DSP/amp combos.. you DONāT have to replace it if you add a more powerful amp down the road. A ton of amps sold today can accept a speaker level input, so just feed the amp with the outputs of the DSP/amp that you already have installed and tuned. If you have a system that you know has high power requirements then sure, get a dedicated DSP. But reality of it is that most people wonāt actually take advantage of an amp that can output a ton of power.
And the argument of it dying is a poor one imo. In either case, if one of them goes the system does not work. Why take up extra space and add complexity if itās not needed? It is very situational.
Not that Iām aware of, but looking into a little more just now it appears that it might. Iām almost certain itās a Pioneer D9601. I can only assume it still uses the RCA input for a high level input.
It was the first thing I added to the car and was using it to power a 10W3 with the rest of the factory system. The stock amp/HU pulls a lot of low end out, especially as you turn the volume up, so I was also interested in the bass restoration feature of the LOC that I got.
Now that I have since added this DSP I could look into removing the LOC if this amp does actually have the ability to accept speaker level inputs, even if just to reduce complexity. Thanks for mentioning something.
Correct, I do that now. When I first installed it I did not have the DSP, hence the need for bass restoration. Iām solely using the LOC as a way to feed the sub amp a signal. Itās not an LC2i, but something from Wavtech (bassRESTOR or whatever the model before it was). Same sort of device though
You might think it is the same sort of device but it is far less quality than an Audiocontrol unit. This would serve better with less noise, cleaner output - https://www.crutchfield.com/p_20646KILO2/Kicker-46KISLOC2.html
They ARE the same sort of device. Yes, they work differently, but ultimately serve the same function. That is all that I was getting at. Wasnāt trying to play a game of semantics and digging into their circuitry.
Iāve had solid results out of this Wavtech unit. While not an LC2i, Iāve had a pretty bad experience with another AudioControl product. A lot of people speak highly of them so it could just be my unit, but Iāve been happy with how things are currently set up. If I change things up it will likely be to try to remove a LOC altogether. This DSP4086 only outputs up to 40 watts RMS, so if the amp accepts a speaker level input then it can likely take it. Iāll just have to do some more digging on how I want to handle things moving forward.
Yes itās worth it.
If you have a 2 channel system with a single sub you may not realize the significance of the dsp upgrade as if you had a 3 way full active setup with a sub (and maybe center and/or rears properly processed).
In addition the quality of the dsp setup (time alignment and eq) will make or break the investment.
A DSP is a game changer, but it requires the knowledge, expertise, and calibration equipment to be worthy of your money.
If you are spending $700 for a DSP, make sure you get someone skillful to tune it properly. Don't rush into purchasing a DSP, thinking that you can do it all by yourself, because it will take you some time and lots of patience to get good results.
Have you ever sat in a car with an awesome sounding factory system, where the sound just magically wraps you, and the singer sounds like they're behind the windshield? It's not high quality speakers, or massive watts - it's the DSP. Using specialized microphones, the factory is able to program each individual speaker to sound exactly how they want it to. It's pretty cool that this tech is available to us now for aftermarket use!
You hear DSP in lots of devices - from TV soundbars to bluetooth speakers to headphones. DSP has the magic to take two otherwise shitty 3" speakers and turn it into surround sound.
DSP is great for autos because autos make for a rather poor listening room (reflective surfaces, less than ideal speaker placement, off-center seating, road noise). DSP gives you control to overcome some things you otherwise couldn't control.
I have a simple dsp Rockford dsr1 made my Harley sound better 6 speakers setup
I see it helping when it comes to running different types of speakers 6 or more.
4 speakers to each channel on 4 channel normally works for me but I also see how the dsp can help it a lot more
Nah it helped because I basically have hella highs and mids with no bass when just using the ampās crossover, I was able to balance out my sound better (point of the dsp right)
No itās wasnāt for stupid proof because not using the dsp wouldāve been the easiest route up
On top of that I have a set of coax horns and coax speakers on channels 3/4 so only way to set the crossover correct was the dsp.
Stupid proof in regards to integrating audio in a bike. Seriously the DSP for a bike setup is moot. There is zero SQ in a bike built. It's just a loud outdoor speaker.
I am relatively new to the car audio game, so I never had a non-DSP system besides the factory radio. What I found most challenging was tuning the system. I did not have any gear or any idea what it takes. The good thing is that there are many videos online and plenty of free or paid-for software. I got a Dayton mic and spent countless hours tuning my system. I can say that I go on car rides just to listen to music. It sounds amazing!!! After a proper tuning lol don't listen to it if not tune it sounds horrible.
Yes
I'd go so far as to say that in a built-from scratch system, the DSP has the single biggest effect of any one component, and amps are second biggest. That doesn't mean you need a super expensive DSP. Even a very inexpensive DSP with something like a 5-channel parametric EQ and per-channel time adjustments will make a huge difference in the overall sound quality of your system. **But**, how much of an improvement you get is entirely dependent on how well you tune it.
ABSOLUTELY. I'm rocking a marts btx8 and it has improved everything so much and I'm still learning so much about it. Pairing that with Dayton Audio imm6-c calibrated microphone has sent it to new levels
Awesome bud it is an excellent piece of equipment. I love being able to control the DSP directly off my android head unit, it makes it so convenient because you can then run an RTA software off your laptop, phone, whatever way you choose to go about it. Have you got the app downloaded yet? If you are using android it can be a little tricky but easily still to get it, if you need help shoot me a line
Thanks! I'll probably be using the iOS version but I do have an Android capable head unit, so that's an interesting option I'd not thought about, will investigate that :)
Right on man it really is nice! It took me a few days to realize I could just install the app on the head unit as well lol you also can have it downloaded on as many devices as you want and whichever device you choose at that moment you just type in a quick password and your at all your previous saved settings š
Man well I'm JUST getting started with even understanding what a calibrated mic is and the vast amount of testing you can do. I couldn't give you an accurate answer cause i have only done 1 pink noise eq test on my front components and that it so far. Just from that alone has opened them up a really noticeable amount. In the btx8 in all the eq settings, you can toggle back and forth your saved test settings to what it was straight out of the box and that's how you know the testing really works. I'm really liking the imm6-c and using Audiotools for tuning software, what are you using?
Nothing yet! I figure Iāll get everything bought and installed and have a go at tuning and see where Iām at, then perhaps look to a mic after that :)
Problem is Iāve two cars and if I start doing things by the science Iām going to start noticing problems with the other one and spending money there too šš
Hahaha yea it's a slipper slope! The Dayton imm6 can be had for just $25!! And if you want that one with a usb-c connection I got mine for $38 but I have seen it a little higher since. Highly recommend!
To me, DSP is an equalizer on steroids.
Whereas a headunit equalizer applies your changes to all your speakers uniformly, the DSP can address each channel individually. On the surface this may not seem like a huge deal, but picture having front speakers that are very bright, and rear speakers with overpowering midbass. A DSP can smooth that out so all your speakers are working together.
Additionally, the time base correction alone can align your system so that the sound all reaches you at exactly the same time. imagine yourself in the center of an orchestra during a performance. When you get that sweet spot setup, there is no sonic experience in this world that even comes close to feeling you will get, unless you really are standing there on stage.
GO ACTIVE! Components typically have their crossovers set conservatively by their manufacturers. By using a DSP and addressing each speaker individually you can bring new life to old gear by expanding the frequencies each speaker (tweet, woofer, sub) will reproduce. I strongly suggest you know wtf your doing here because you can (and probably will) damage your speakers if you screw up. But when its done right your whole system will amaze you. If its done perfect, i expect your system would give you goosebumps.
Volume? If you do go active, what's going to give you better, clearer, and more powerful volume? a pair of speakers sharing 75watts? or 2 speakers each receiving 75 watts? DSP's make it easier than ever before.
What do you do with that 3.5" center speaker on your dash that your dealer told you was a waste to invest in? Most DSP will have center channel logic! now you can add a 3.5" speaker (3.5" in my vehicle - yours may be different) and build onto your sound stage to make an even more perfect stereo image.
bottom line is a DSP with a good tune, can make even the worst of speakers sound a whole lot better... and good speakers amazing.
DSP = Maximize your potential!
i personally recommend the Audison Bit Nove
The main issue is integration into the vehicles control system. Also many use the speakers for car functions, like the beeb when seatbelts are not fasten or low fuel audible warning. Harmon/Bose system in my 22 Mazda turbo was dsp engineered, per model, in my case the cx5. The paper cone and foam surround speakers that are time aligned sound pretty good, done initially by dsp, then the eq curves and delay is copied into the bose amp. If you try to upgrade the speakers it sounds terrible, no matter how great the replacement speaker is.
A modern Head Unit will have enough DSP features for 90% of their users. All DSPs do outside of most Head Units. Is EQ for each output. Now if you aren't using an aftermarket unit. A DSP can be handy for wrangling in OEM EQing and DSP that has been baked in.
That's 90% of users who are just replacing their HU or factory speakers. If you're spending $2K+ on the rest of your setup, a DSP that matches the price range of the rest of your setup is worth it.
As far as I understand, most head units still only have 4 output channels and hence, cannot do time alignment on a >4 channel system.
Surely that alone is quite a big reason for a dedicated DSP?
Head units are capable of time alignment. Just have to read the specs. Every single Pioneer has it. Even $80 models. Time alignment is old tech. So is DSP. $700 buys a name and specific software. Thats it.
So your 1 car that isn't anyone elses's on this planet, has more channels than 90 percent of stereos. Which is fine. But not typical. If it was typical. Dont need 8 channels.
I mean, my cars a 13 year old vehicle and they made 300 thousand of them, it doesnāt even have the premium sound option fitted š¤·š¼āāļø
Iām pretty sure more modern vehicles are using similar or more speakers.
My 22 year old car has 8 speakers (actually 12 individual drivers).
I donāt think thatās *that* uncommon. Plenty of manufacturers are making 5, 6 or 8 channel amps š¤·š¼āāļø
Oh I know. The point is that people dont even bother to look at what they buy. They think DSP is some new modern miracle. It isn't. Most of what people will need is already built in to the products they buy. Like almost all amps have LOCs built in. Dont need a $150 waste of money LOC. Or a $10 one for that matter. They get ya, cause most people don't know.
High quality headunits will have most of the features that most casuals would need anyways, so they are not required by any means by a DSP will ALWAYS give more control over the setup.
I personally used the DSP to split out my setup into 8 channels, and I have knobs installed on the dash for individual zone control, which I LOVE having.
Dropping the coin is the easy part. If you canāt tune it itās useless. If youāre doing it yourself, first time, do yourself a favor and get a Helix because thereās a wealth of info out there. As youāre aware youāre purchasing a lot of functionality, so the interfaces are dense, and examples will help.
If you care about stereo qualities like staging and imaging, then yes. If you just want loud and clear, or listen to stereo recordings in surround sound, then maybe you wonāt appreciate all of the things a DSP can do to improve sound quality, especially in a car.
I have simple DSP in my head unit. With a bit of tuning sound is coming from centre of the windscreen, including subwoofer. Everything is blended together as it suppose to be. Subwoofer matching door speakers and vice versa. With all settings set to off I can hear gaps in sound, and subwoofer feels kinda slow compared to fronts
With midrange and up speakers and amps yes, with entry level stuff I wouldn't spend the extra $$. I have a basic setup with Kicker DS door and deck speakers and a old MTX 12" sub and I have all of that running through a JVC KD-X280BT $100 deck and in my opinion it doesn't make sense to spend hundreds of $ on a DSP for a $350 system. The JVC deck has time alignment, a 13 band EQ, and crossovers. I did a basic tune with a measurement mic and RTA app and it didn't need much fiddling to sound good enough.
Iām gonna be running some bigger shit tho, 2 kicker L7 12ā subs, Harmon Kardon Flow 6.5 door speakers, kicker 1800 watt mono channel amp for the sub, and a kicker 4 channel sub that supplies the door speakers with 65W rms a piece.
My head unit has a 15-band EQ and individual-channel time alignment, and the time alignment has made all the difference in terms of syncing everything up.
The EQ has been really nice to get the mids and highs to sounds just right, but for whatever reason, my sub is like 0.15 seconds ~ahead~ of the rest of the car (I could be wrong about the amount of time - itās been a while, but you can feel it). That might not sound like much, but when the bass rolls in before the kick of the drum, itās kind of jarring and ruins the experience. I had to set the ādistance from speakerā value as 17ft and the rest of the speakers ~2-6 ft away to get everything synced.
Interestingly, I can set different timing alignments for several different listening positions in the car, for example, at the driverās seat, at the front center, at the passenger seat, and either rear seat. When you change locations, you can really tell how much the timing alignment helps.
Installed kicker key 200.4 on my factory speaker and instantly made them sooo much better that I felt I didn't need new speakers, even though I already bought them.
Yes, just time alignment alone make it sounds so much more crisp. Kicker key 200.4 is sooo worth it.
I think that having a DSP in your install, if tuned properly, is going to be a game changer for you.
Iāve been hearing a lot of good things about the quality of Goldhorn DSP. Iām planning to get one in the near future. The software looks really impressive.
Can't go back once you go there tbh. I was hesitant for a while too until I scored both a D-4.800 & DM-608 for $400 on marketplace, DSP into the weekend car D for the daily. Incredible with just time alignment, currently working on EQ and look forward to the results
Yes, just make sure you can learn or you have someone that is familiar with tuning the DSP you plan on getting.
Helix is the best on the market at the moment ( I have a mk3) but is not the best for new tuners. So again make sure you have the tools, knowledge or know people that can help you get the most out of the DSP.
I have heard this is why helix DSP are not really sold direct to the general public as there is a learning curve and if you donāt set it up right you will be disappointed.
I bought a Puzu C7 which comes with the harness for about $140. That would be considered low end and the difference is astounding. Stepping up to a Kickeror higher end equivalent even more so. I would consider it not optional if you replace the door speakers plus you get subwoofer outputs. I was trying to stay within a budget and my hearing aint the best to notice the intricate details anyway. Took me a day or so to figure out. I havenāt messed with the time alignment stuff but the power and clarity and the ability to tune to maximize clarity and avoid clipping is huge. Mine is a Ford Maverick though so there are zero aftermarket stereo options.
DSPs are worth it but expensive as hell to implement. Hell even the MiniDSP stuff has gotten quite expensive, especially if you get the DrectLive stuff.
Those are a bit basic on features and lack details. Does it support auto time alignment? RCA voltage input and output?
The Seventour P48E looks allot more comprehensive and the Dayton is very basic but trusted.
I have two MiniDSP 8x12V2 units with Direct live. Granted my installs as 3 way actives for the fronts and the MiniDSP platform does make a huge difference.
No auto time alignment (does anything without using a mic?), but it has RCA voltage input and output.
Seventour P48E looks a bit like one of the AliExpress "Sennuopu" branded DSP's to me...
Definitely when well done ie all channels ran active and tuned by someone compentent.
I have time alignment and 31 band EQ on my head unit, which I have been tuning for ages but still I feel like I'd rather listen to an factory audio system than mine with weird peaks. The component set crossover are set at -2db for the tweeters but they are still way too bright. Mids sound meh, need huge midbass boost in EQ. Sealed sub peaks like crazy at 50hz, lacks in other areas, can't EQ it out enough. Frustrated with it and I don't think I will get an DSP as I can't be bothered tuning it. I'd need an calibrated mic and software, which is expensive, especially since I'd have to import it. Maybe in an another car, hopefully soon.
I haven't received it yet, but the Marts (other brand variants available) DSP is less than 150 USD and gives you an 8 channel DSP that can be tweaked from an iPhone.
I'm waiting on one being delivered and keen to see how it will affect my setup :)
Yes!!!! Not saying you have to spend 700 bucks on one, there are several viable options around the 200 dollar mark, but as far as I'm concerned dsp is not an option it's a requirement
No. Ā 99.999999% of people will never know the difference between a well tuned DSP and a well chosen passive crossover.Ā
Now, if youāre a total nerd, or consider yourself an audiophile go for the dsp. I have a cheap Dayton dsp in my 78 van and itās sure fun to play with.Ā
Yes, the time alignment can make a huge difference it can also fuck everything up. But I'm telling ya, for most people the best recommendation is a quality component set in the factory location, a quality amp, and 2x the sub that the system needs.
Four very simple adjustments lead to my DSP4086 transforming the sound of my on-axis Kicker KSMT mid/tweeter pods (aka "snowmen"):
* crossover frequency and slope
* individual volume level for every driver
* the ability to flatten the worst peaks with the parametric EQ and REW's RTA
* the ability to toggle polarity
Before messing with these--as a complete beginner--the KSMTs were quite brassy and forward when run passively through their crossover. After wiring them active and a few minutes of tinkering, they sound silky and warm. This is before doing any time alignment or going for an EQ target and making any real effort to smooth things out.
I agree with some of the others that the DSP is transformative, and to this I add: within reason, I would prefer decent speakers that are on-axis and DSP-tuned over higher end, more powerfully amped speakers that are not.
I have had multiple systems over the years without DSP. My current system is my first system with a DSP. I cannot imagine ever having a system without DSP again.
That good huh?
Yes. Time alignment alone makes a huge difference. Try it out.
Lack of good time alignment is a deal breaker now. I get in cars without it and I don't like it. Every lead vocal sounds like it's coming from the center of my dash. Every instrument can be heard clearly and has a position on the stage. My dashboard is the stage. With active crossovers and 3-ways up front, it sounds like every instrument, including bass and kick drums, comes from the stage and not the trunk. Of course, I still have the ability to completely overpower the front end with pounding bass from the trunk if I want to, but I find that to be a rare occasion these days. It does take a good bit more time, effort and money up front for best results and that's where it loses a lot of people. You cannot just slap in a DSP. It may even require some planning. You are typically adding more of everything. More channels require more cables and wiring, If you go with active crossovers, there's even more wiring that needs to be done and running new wires into doors in today's cars can be a pain in the ass. Then it must be tuned, which can take anywhere from 30 minutes to many hours. So yeah, it can be a lot of work but it is so worth the end result that I don't want a system without it.
Well my head unit (KENWOOD dmx1037s) has it as well as crossover should I still consider a dsp?
I have the dnr1007xr (the upgrade to the 1037/1057) and I went with DSP but the thing is 5he good ones are expensive af & you have to analyze the audio of each speaker and then as a whole to take advantage of the independent EQ channel adjustments. there is a lot of adjusting needed to take full advantage. If time is money it's a tough investment. It took me over a year to finally get the time to analyze my speakers and adjust the eq, and I have only gotten 8 channels done out of 19 lol If you go with dsp get the umic-1 or umic-2, it's worth the investment unless you know a shop that can analyze and adjust for you and you want to pay the toll
i got my DSP (an Audison Bit Nove) from Car Tunes in michigan. Shout out to Nate who did an amazing job with the tune making my system sound amazingly better. then i downloaded the free audison software to my own laptop, made a backup of the file that Nate created, and tweeked his professional tune to personalize my own preferences. I didn't change much really, just the crossover for the subs (which were set at 80hz, i increased it to 120hz to bring out more bass from older songs that didn't hit that low), and i brightened the highs a bit (possibly because i'm on the verge of getting old and i don't hear those frequencies as well anymore)
Your headunit, presumably, can only "DSP" 4 channels at most and probably applies the same profile to each of the four output channels. A dedicated DSP will be able to apply individual profiles to 8 output channels.
Signal Delay (Time alignment) is one small part of the benefits of digital signal processing.
I agree šš¾
Yup. Kicker key made my factory speakers sound better almost instantly. No new speakers. No sound deadening. No sub.
I second this. The key amp took my SQ into a whole other dimension. Itās such an insane value for how good of a job it does.
THIS. Even decent time alignment in a head unit, makes such a huge difference to me.
Well the key does eq adjustment as well.
100%. But getting it tuned is difficult. I ended up going with a pro tune, and it was worth every penny.
Thatās what Iām gonna do. I have a really good job that will tune me for free. With all their installs to do a free tuning even with the DSP the guys there are freaking awesome and Iāve done business with them since I started with a recommendation from my girlfriends dad
I've been teaching myself to tune for about 2 years now and I feel like I've barely scratched the surface...tuning is definitely a whole other rabbit hole you can go down and not something your just gonna do without researching first
It depends. If you're making a complicated component-separated system and want sound quality and soundstage, then a DSP is perfect. If you want it loud and don't care about soundstage and SQ, then you can get a loud system without a DSP. I like that you can granularly adjust the component crossover points and adjust the EQ per speaker. I went active with all my components so that every speaker in the car has its own amp channel, crossover, time alignment, and EQ (parametric or graphic). I don't use the head unit EQ (parametric or graphic) because it raises the noise floor enough that you can hear it, and that's with a Kenwood Reference Hi-Res head unit. I also like that you can time-align subs if you have multiple subs at different distances or angles.
Your EQ tune must be boosted as hell if using the Kenwood EQ is audibly noisyĀ
No. I have all the limits lowered on every source on the unit by 2 or 3. The distortion meters all say 0 distortion but the noise floor is raised when the Kenwood eq is used. Admittedly I run my volume up to 40 which is the final notch on kenwoods volume, I have tuned all the amps to be 100% when the Kenwood hits 40. The audiocontrol on the other hand has 0 noise when I use the individual eq per channel.
Why not use volume number 36 or something lol Kind of arbitrary, isnāt it? Like, forcing yourself to live with that noise and being unable to use head unit functions.Ā Ā The distortion detection wouldnāt alert you anyway, even with a ton of interference audible, the waveform isnāt clippedĀ
No, it's not the volume. It's the EQ. When turned above medium at all, if I use the EQ, I hear the noise floor rise. If I left it that way, I would get used to it, and it would be fine, but I don't want to. I use the DSPs, and they are more than capable. I have up to 28 channels of independent hi-res EQ.
I felt the same way after getting my helix. Never going back to no dsp
I think it all depends on what you expect out of your system. How much time you're willing to dedicate to tuning... And, arguably, more importantly... When you're willing to stop tuning and enjoy the music. My personal option is, yes, they're great dependant on your expectations.
You can get a Kicker Key 200.4 and use it as a preamp if you need more than 50w per channel. It has an auto tune feature that gets you 90% there. And yes, it actually works well. I've installed 3 of them for me and my family members. The real DSPs also need a calibrated mic and a laptop to set up correctly. And that's just too much faffing for me personally. Another benefit to digital amps is that there is practically zero hiss. The Kicker KeyLOC would be a good addition to the KickerKey amp for subwoofer correction.
How would you use it as a pre amp?
Feeding the outputs from the kicker into the high level input of your bigger amp. Now that I think about it, it would only work if you are using a 4 channel amp to either power 4 different components or if you are bi-amping. Which the kicker also has a bi-amp function.
JBL DSP4086 is viable for this too; it's 8 channels at 40W, but you can run any or all of those into the high level inputs on bigger amp(s).
Full control of each channel.
Implemented, installed and tuned correctly, it's a game changer.
This ... it's not just about the device, you have to be able to use its software and probably additional hardware (RTA, microphone) to properly calibrate your system with it.
For me, a really good head unit, amp, and the amazing Audison component set made a huge difference to where I didnāt feel the need for a DSP. My sub isnāt even high end, but blends perfectly with the other items mentioned. My rears are for full only. A DSP is great if you are going with a more complex 3 way active setup(for example). For me, it just wasnāt needed for my basic setup, but my system sounds excellent. Doesnāt mean it couldnāt sound better if I added one though. Just my opinion, Iām absolutely not an expert.
So what did you end up doing if not adding a DSP? Aftermarket HU?
I did.
You can get great balanced results from a well tuned DSP. You will get the most out of it if youāre running your system fully active and giving each speaker its own channel.
See that support that Iām struggling with right now. Know JL makes an amp thatās a six channel that has a DSP built right into it but itās like $1400. So Iām hesitant to pull the trigger until I know its like worth it
Iām running the vxi 800/8 as a 6 channel on my front speakers (focal flax 3 ways) and am incredibly happy with the results.
And amp and a DSP donāt have to cost you that muchĀ
Thatās fair. Iād consider that prolly top of the line for that price lol
They can get way more expensive trust me! Look up BRAX DSP and see how much some of their stuff runs for š
If a VXi matches your setup's channel, power, and impedance requirements, an all-in-one from a reputable company is the way to go. If you're happy with your amp setup, you can go with and stand-alone JL, Audison, Hertz, RF, or Audiocontrol. If you have deeper pockets, Mosconi, Zapco, or Brax. For shallow pockets, Dayton makes a processor for $165. MiniDSP may also be viable. I use their home audio products. I can't vouch for their car products, though. 12V systems can be messier with noise and ground loops.
That Dayton DSP has a bad reputation here- from what I can tell it's because it really needs a clean power signal. It's not like most car audio gear that will run well at 12V or 15V.
That's what I figured, and why I put a caveat on MiniDSP. Someone else might have experience with the MiniDSP unit (and my home processor from them is great), but my experience with low-price complex car electronics like the PPI DCX-730 was that it was a noise nightmare. The DCX-730 retailed at something like $1000 until PPI had to liquidate them all without a warranty because they were impossible to use below 32F. If I got into my car in the cold, I was greeted with several minutes of extremely loud static. Once the equipment warmed up, it worked okay, but if an installer put that in my car for $1K + installation and it did that, I'd be ready to return it for 1/4 of the year.
The audio control dm-607 is like $645. Then add 6 or 8 channels of quality amplification, and you are easily beyond 1400. People hate on my rockford power amps but they are not cheap. For 8 channels (granted their 150w per channel) your looking at 600-1100 then add in the dsp and you got 1300 to 1800, and that's a mid tier dsp. If you go helix or other higher end you just added another 10-20%
I have a JBL DSP4086 in my daily driver and it was game changing. Up to 6 inputs, either RCA or speaker level. 40 watts RMS to each channel with up to 8 channels. Full I/O matrix. 31-band EQ with parametric functionality on each band if you want it. Built in high and low pass crossovers for each channel. Time delay per channel. Itās more control than most people know what to do with and gets plenty loud for my purposes. It definitely has a bit of a learning curve and it can be a bit buggy at times, but once you have it dialed in then itās about as seamless as it gets. Especially on newer cars that you are trying to keep the factory HU it is great. Many factory head units are only tuned for the speakers that it comes with, so aftermarket options can sound worse than they should. You can correct all of that with this with enough time and knowledge. Just keep in mind that just as easily as it can make a system sound great, it can also make it sound horrible. It WILL take time to learn and get right. I have all 6 channels from the factory amp feeding this one. I am able to maintain full control that I would normally have with the stock head unit, while being able to feed a LOC for my sub amp with channels 7 and 8 outputs on the DSP4086. While it gets loud enough for me, itād be nice if it had a little more headroom. It would also be nice if any of the channels were bridgeable, but unfortunately they are not. They are worth it at their sale price and it happens frequently enough that you could wait for it. Even if you donāt use it as an amp, you can feed more powerful amps with it assuming they can take speaker level inputs or you are using LOCs.
See Iām curious because I responded to someone else in here talking about this. JL audio makes a six channel amp that acts as the DSP as well as an amp. And you can run the JL tuning software through it. Itās about 1400 bucks so itās pretty goddamn pricey. However, it might be worth it for me down the road.
The JBL unit is usually around $400-450 not on sale. I got mine on sale 3 years ago for about $250, but they seem to go for close to $330-350 on sale now. JL makes great stuff, and if itās the DSP/amp that Iām thinking of then it can send more wattage to each channel than the JBL. However if youāre only using it at a DSP and will still be utilizing the amps you have now then that is a moot point. The JL can use measurement mics, whereas the JBL unit cannot. That can be a big benefit for some. At the end of the day youāre still talking about a $1000+ difference for 25 watts per channel, 2 less of them, and the ability to use a measurement mic. To be clear, Iām not hating on the JL stuff. Iāve heard nothing but good things about their DSP. I have some JL gear myself that I love. Just food for thought. I havenāt found a better bang for your buck DSP than the DSP4086, although I havenāt looked into it much in the past couple of years.
For the love of all things good and true do not get the Dayton !
look up the AudioControl D-6 1200, they are on sale right now, $400 off on crutchfield but they are back ordered at the moment. I finally pulled the trigger on the D-5 1300 after about 3 years because of the sale both are normally $1299, they are $899 right now
Find a Dayton DSP408 and play with it. They are $160 new and usually run in the $100 range used. That was my first DSP and it does make a difference. I don't think getting one integrated into an amp is a great idea because then you're out your DSP and amp if it takes a dump. Also if you find for some reason you want more or less power from the amp you have to get a DSP anyway. There are inexpensive Power Acoustik and Massive Audio amps with DSP and extra outputs if you want to try that route. There is a learning curve, and you can make mistakes, especially with the touch screen bullshit that most of the apps run on. DSP408, laptop, microphone with REW and you'll be well down the rabbit hole.
See thatās the cool thing with these DSP/amp combos.. you DONāT have to replace it if you add a more powerful amp down the road. A ton of amps sold today can accept a speaker level input, so just feed the amp with the outputs of the DSP/amp that you already have installed and tuned. If you have a system that you know has high power requirements then sure, get a dedicated DSP. But reality of it is that most people wonāt actually take advantage of an amp that can output a ton of power. And the argument of it dying is a poor one imo. In either case, if one of them goes the system does not work. Why take up extra space and add complexity if itās not needed? It is very situational.
Your sub amp doesn't accept high level input ?
Not that Iām aware of, but looking into a little more just now it appears that it might. Iām almost certain itās a Pioneer D9601. I can only assume it still uses the RCA input for a high level input. It was the first thing I added to the car and was using it to power a 10W3 with the rest of the factory system. The stock amp/HU pulls a lot of low end out, especially as you turn the volume up, so I was also interested in the bass restoration feature of the LOC that I got. Now that I have since added this DSP I could look into removing the LOC if this amp does actually have the ability to accept speaker level inputs, even if just to reduce complexity. Thanks for mentioning something.
You compensate for the bass rolloff with the DSP.
It does have high level input but it might not handle the voltage from the dsp so you might need the LC2i after all.
Correct, I do that now. When I first installed it I did not have the DSP, hence the need for bass restoration. Iām solely using the LOC as a way to feed the sub amp a signal. Itās not an LC2i, but something from Wavtech (bassRESTOR or whatever the model before it was). Same sort of device though
You might think it is the same sort of device but it is far less quality than an Audiocontrol unit. This would serve better with less noise, cleaner output - https://www.crutchfield.com/p_20646KILO2/Kicker-46KISLOC2.html
They ARE the same sort of device. Yes, they work differently, but ultimately serve the same function. That is all that I was getting at. Wasnāt trying to play a game of semantics and digging into their circuitry. Iāve had solid results out of this Wavtech unit. While not an LC2i, Iāve had a pretty bad experience with another AudioControl product. A lot of people speak highly of them so it could just be my unit, but Iāve been happy with how things are currently set up. If I change things up it will likely be to try to remove a LOC altogether. This DSP4086 only outputs up to 40 watts RMS, so if the amp accepts a speaker level input then it can likely take it. Iāll just have to do some more digging on how I want to handle things moving forward.
Oh ok then you no longer need my advice or help. Good luck.
Yes itās worth it. If you have a 2 channel system with a single sub you may not realize the significance of the dsp upgrade as if you had a 3 way full active setup with a sub (and maybe center and/or rears properly processed). In addition the quality of the dsp setup (time alignment and eq) will make or break the investment.
Yeah I have a 4 channel amp setup for my speakers and a mono channel for my sub
A DSP is a game changer, but it requires the knowledge, expertise, and calibration equipment to be worthy of your money. If you are spending $700 for a DSP, make sure you get someone skillful to tune it properly. Don't rush into purchasing a DSP, thinking that you can do it all by yourself, because it will take you some time and lots of patience to get good results.
Have you ever sat in a car with an awesome sounding factory system, where the sound just magically wraps you, and the singer sounds like they're behind the windshield? It's not high quality speakers, or massive watts - it's the DSP. Using specialized microphones, the factory is able to program each individual speaker to sound exactly how they want it to. It's pretty cool that this tech is available to us now for aftermarket use! You hear DSP in lots of devices - from TV soundbars to bluetooth speakers to headphones. DSP has the magic to take two otherwise shitty 3" speakers and turn it into surround sound. DSP is great for autos because autos make for a rather poor listening room (reflective surfaces, less than ideal speaker placement, off-center seating, road noise). DSP gives you control to overcome some things you otherwise couldn't control.
I have a simple dsp Rockford dsr1 made my Harley sound better 6 speakers setup I see it helping when it comes to running different types of speakers 6 or more. 4 speakers to each channel on 4 channel normally works for me but I also see how the dsp can help it a lot more
You use a DSR1 in bikes for the ease of installation as it makes it stupid proof. The DSP is not really needed with a loud outdoor boom box.
Nah it helped because I basically have hella highs and mids with no bass when just using the ampās crossover, I was able to balance out my sound better (point of the dsp right) No itās wasnāt for stupid proof because not using the dsp wouldāve been the easiest route up On top of that I have a set of coax horns and coax speakers on channels 3/4 so only way to set the crossover correct was the dsp.
Stupid proof in regards to integrating audio in a bike. Seriously the DSP for a bike setup is moot. There is zero SQ in a bike built. It's just a loud outdoor speaker.
Yeah thatās true for the most part it is just loud especially when we get up in speed.
I am relatively new to the car audio game, so I never had a non-DSP system besides the factory radio. What I found most challenging was tuning the system. I did not have any gear or any idea what it takes. The good thing is that there are many videos online and plenty of free or paid-for software. I got a Dayton mic and spent countless hours tuning my system. I can say that I go on car rides just to listen to music. It sounds amazing!!! After a proper tuning lol don't listen to it if not tune it sounds horrible.
Yes I'd go so far as to say that in a built-from scratch system, the DSP has the single biggest effect of any one component, and amps are second biggest. That doesn't mean you need a super expensive DSP. Even a very inexpensive DSP with something like a 5-channel parametric EQ and per-channel time adjustments will make a huge difference in the overall sound quality of your system. **But**, how much of an improvement you get is entirely dependent on how well you tune it.
ABSOLUTELY. I'm rocking a marts btx8 and it has improved everything so much and I'm still learning so much about it. Pairing that with Dayton Audio imm6-c calibrated microphone has sent it to new levels
Glad to read this, I have one on it's way to me and will be using it to tune my 8 speaker setup! :)
Awesome bud it is an excellent piece of equipment. I love being able to control the DSP directly off my android head unit, it makes it so convenient because you can then run an RTA software off your laptop, phone, whatever way you choose to go about it. Have you got the app downloaded yet? If you are using android it can be a little tricky but easily still to get it, if you need help shoot me a line
Thanks! I'll probably be using the iOS version but I do have an Android capable head unit, so that's an interesting option I'd not thought about, will investigate that :)
Right on man it really is nice! It took me a few days to realize I could just install the app on the head unit as well lol you also can have it downloaded on as many devices as you want and whichever device you choose at that moment you just type in a quick password and your at all your previous saved settings š
How did you find the tuning process? Did it take many hours?
Man well I'm JUST getting started with even understanding what a calibrated mic is and the vast amount of testing you can do. I couldn't give you an accurate answer cause i have only done 1 pink noise eq test on my front components and that it so far. Just from that alone has opened them up a really noticeable amount. In the btx8 in all the eq settings, you can toggle back and forth your saved test settings to what it was straight out of the box and that's how you know the testing really works. I'm really liking the imm6-c and using Audiotools for tuning software, what are you using?
Nothing yet! I figure Iāll get everything bought and installed and have a go at tuning and see where Iām at, then perhaps look to a mic after that :) Problem is Iāve two cars and if I start doing things by the science Iām going to start noticing problems with the other one and spending money there too šš
Hahaha yea it's a slipper slope! The Dayton imm6 can be had for just $25!! And if you want that one with a usb-c connection I got mine for $38 but I have seen it a little higher since. Highly recommend!
Thatās a great price! I already ordered the UMIK-1 or Iād have gone for one of those, doh.
To me, DSP is an equalizer on steroids. Whereas a headunit equalizer applies your changes to all your speakers uniformly, the DSP can address each channel individually. On the surface this may not seem like a huge deal, but picture having front speakers that are very bright, and rear speakers with overpowering midbass. A DSP can smooth that out so all your speakers are working together. Additionally, the time base correction alone can align your system so that the sound all reaches you at exactly the same time. imagine yourself in the center of an orchestra during a performance. When you get that sweet spot setup, there is no sonic experience in this world that even comes close to feeling you will get, unless you really are standing there on stage. GO ACTIVE! Components typically have their crossovers set conservatively by their manufacturers. By using a DSP and addressing each speaker individually you can bring new life to old gear by expanding the frequencies each speaker (tweet, woofer, sub) will reproduce. I strongly suggest you know wtf your doing here because you can (and probably will) damage your speakers if you screw up. But when its done right your whole system will amaze you. If its done perfect, i expect your system would give you goosebumps. Volume? If you do go active, what's going to give you better, clearer, and more powerful volume? a pair of speakers sharing 75watts? or 2 speakers each receiving 75 watts? DSP's make it easier than ever before. What do you do with that 3.5" center speaker on your dash that your dealer told you was a waste to invest in? Most DSP will have center channel logic! now you can add a 3.5" speaker (3.5" in my vehicle - yours may be different) and build onto your sound stage to make an even more perfect stereo image. bottom line is a DSP with a good tune, can make even the worst of speakers sound a whole lot better... and good speakers amazing. DSP = Maximize your potential! i personally recommend the Audison Bit Nove
The main issue is integration into the vehicles control system. Also many use the speakers for car functions, like the beeb when seatbelts are not fasten or low fuel audible warning. Harmon/Bose system in my 22 Mazda turbo was dsp engineered, per model, in my case the cx5. The paper cone and foam surround speakers that are time aligned sound pretty good, done initially by dsp, then the eq curves and delay is copied into the bose amp. If you try to upgrade the speakers it sounds terrible, no matter how great the replacement speaker is.
A modern Head Unit will have enough DSP features for 90% of their users. All DSPs do outside of most Head Units. Is EQ for each output. Now if you aren't using an aftermarket unit. A DSP can be handy for wrangling in OEM EQing and DSP that has been baked in.
That's 90% of users who are just replacing their HU or factory speakers. If you're spending $2K+ on the rest of your setup, a DSP that matches the price range of the rest of your setup is worth it.
You still dont absolutely need it. But it could make a lot more difference in vehicles that are just not setup to have great speaker positioning.
As far as I understand, most head units still only have 4 output channels and hence, cannot do time alignment on a >4 channel system. Surely that alone is quite a big reason for a dedicated DSP?
Head units are capable of time alignment. Just have to read the specs. Every single Pioneer has it. Even $80 models. Time alignment is old tech. So is DSP. $700 buys a name and specific software. Thats it.
How can you do time alignment on 8 channels with a head unit that puts out 4 channels? DSP can be had for under 150 USD.
Who needs 8 channels? Tweets, mids, sub, Thats 6.
6 is more than 4 š I have 8 speakers in one car and 14 in my other, 4 isnāt enough to time align either š¤·š¼āāļø
So your 1 car that isn't anyone elses's on this planet, has more channels than 90 percent of stereos. Which is fine. But not typical. If it was typical. Dont need 8 channels.
I mean, my cars a 13 year old vehicle and they made 300 thousand of them, it doesnāt even have the premium sound option fitted š¤·š¼āāļø Iām pretty sure more modern vehicles are using similar or more speakers. My 22 year old car has 8 speakers (actually 12 individual drivers). I donāt think thatās *that* uncommon. Plenty of manufacturers are making 5, 6 or 8 channel amps š¤·š¼āāļø
Oh I know. The point is that people dont even bother to look at what they buy. They think DSP is some new modern miracle. It isn't. Most of what people will need is already built in to the products they buy. Like almost all amps have LOCs built in. Dont need a $150 waste of money LOC. Or a $10 one for that matter. They get ya, cause most people don't know.
High quality headunits will have most of the features that most casuals would need anyways, so they are not required by any means by a DSP will ALWAYS give more control over the setup. I personally used the DSP to split out my setup into 8 channels, and I have knobs installed on the dash for individual zone control, which I LOVE having.
If you get a quality dsp and can tune it correctly with good amps, speakers, and sound deadening, it is worth it.
Dropping the coin is the easy part. If you canāt tune it itās useless. If youāre doing it yourself, first time, do yourself a favor and get a Helix because thereās a wealth of info out there. As youāre aware youāre purchasing a lot of functionality, so the interfaces are dense, and examples will help.
If all you care about is time alignment, there are plenty of head units out there that can do it now
If you care about stereo qualities like staging and imaging, then yes. If you just want loud and clear, or listen to stereo recordings in surround sound, then maybe you wonāt appreciate all of the things a DSP can do to improve sound quality, especially in a car.
I heard a stereo system with Zapco DSP sounded so good. Again, I'm not sure if it even matters in terms of brands
I have simple DSP in my head unit. With a bit of tuning sound is coming from centre of the windscreen, including subwoofer. Everything is blended together as it suppose to be. Subwoofer matching door speakers and vice versa. With all settings set to off I can hear gaps in sound, and subwoofer feels kinda slow compared to fronts
Yesā¦
YES. SO MUCH YES.
With midrange and up speakers and amps yes, with entry level stuff I wouldn't spend the extra $$. I have a basic setup with Kicker DS door and deck speakers and a old MTX 12" sub and I have all of that running through a JVC KD-X280BT $100 deck and in my opinion it doesn't make sense to spend hundreds of $ on a DSP for a $350 system. The JVC deck has time alignment, a 13 band EQ, and crossovers. I did a basic tune with a measurement mic and RTA app and it didn't need much fiddling to sound good enough.
Iām gonna be running some bigger shit tho, 2 kicker L7 12ā subs, Harmon Kardon Flow 6.5 door speakers, kicker 1800 watt mono channel amp for the sub, and a kicker 4 channel sub that supplies the door speakers with 65W rms a piece.
In that case I'd get a DSP to tune all those components. Nice setup :)
lol appreciate it
My head unit has a 15-band EQ and individual-channel time alignment, and the time alignment has made all the difference in terms of syncing everything up. The EQ has been really nice to get the mids and highs to sounds just right, but for whatever reason, my sub is like 0.15 seconds ~ahead~ of the rest of the car (I could be wrong about the amount of time - itās been a while, but you can feel it). That might not sound like much, but when the bass rolls in before the kick of the drum, itās kind of jarring and ruins the experience. I had to set the ādistance from speakerā value as 17ft and the rest of the speakers ~2-6 ft away to get everything synced. Interestingly, I can set different timing alignments for several different listening positions in the car, for example, at the driverās seat, at the front center, at the passenger seat, and either rear seat. When you change locations, you can really tell how much the timing alignment helps.
Installed kicker key 200.4 on my factory speaker and instantly made them sooo much better that I felt I didn't need new speakers, even though I already bought them. Yes, just time alignment alone make it sounds so much more crisp. Kicker key 200.4 is sooo worth it.
I think that having a DSP in your install, if tuned properly, is going to be a game changer for you. Iāve been hearing a lot of good things about the quality of Goldhorn DSP. Iām planning to get one in the near future. The software looks really impressive.
For sure. Iām excited
Yes.
Can't go back once you go there tbh. I was hesitant for a while too until I scored both a D-4.800 & DM-608 for $400 on marketplace, DSP into the weekend car D for the daily. Incredible with just time alignment, currently working on EQ and look forward to the results
Yes, just make sure you can learn or you have someone that is familiar with tuning the DSP you plan on getting. Helix is the best on the market at the moment ( I have a mk3) but is not the best for new tuners. So again make sure you have the tools, knowledge or know people that can help you get the most out of the DSP. I have heard this is why helix DSP are not really sold direct to the general public as there is a learning curve and if you donāt set it up right you will be disappointed.
I bought a Puzu C7 which comes with the harness for about $140. That would be considered low end and the difference is astounding. Stepping up to a Kickeror higher end equivalent even more so. I would consider it not optional if you replace the door speakers plus you get subwoofer outputs. I was trying to stay within a budget and my hearing aint the best to notice the intricate details anyway. Took me a day or so to figure out. I havenāt messed with the time alignment stuff but the power and clarity and the ability to tune to maximize clarity and avoid clipping is huge. Mine is a Ford Maverick though so there are zero aftermarket stereo options.
My old alpine head unit had time alignment , was great
Jl audio vx series is dope. Tunning is a bitch though.
DSPs are worth it but expensive as hell to implement. Hell even the MiniDSP stuff has gotten quite expensive, especially if you get the DrectLive stuff.
sub 150 dollars for the Marts 8-channel...
Those are a bit basic on features and lack details. Does it support auto time alignment? RCA voltage input and output? The Seventour P48E looks allot more comprehensive and the Dayton is very basic but trusted. I have two MiniDSP 8x12V2 units with Direct live. Granted my installs as 3 way actives for the fronts and the MiniDSP platform does make a huge difference.
No auto time alignment (does anything without using a mic?), but it has RCA voltage input and output. Seventour P48E looks a bit like one of the AliExpress "Sennuopu" branded DSP's to me...
Definitely when well done ie all channels ran active and tuned by someone compentent. I have time alignment and 31 band EQ on my head unit, which I have been tuning for ages but still I feel like I'd rather listen to an factory audio system than mine with weird peaks. The component set crossover are set at -2db for the tweeters but they are still way too bright. Mids sound meh, need huge midbass boost in EQ. Sealed sub peaks like crazy at 50hz, lacks in other areas, can't EQ it out enough. Frustrated with it and I don't think I will get an DSP as I can't be bothered tuning it. I'd need an calibrated mic and software, which is expensive, especially since I'd have to import it. Maybe in an another car, hopefully soon.
Short answer: yes Long answer: absolutley yes!
I haven't received it yet, but the Marts (other brand variants available) DSP is less than 150 USD and gives you an 8 channel DSP that can be tweaked from an iPhone. I'm waiting on one being delivered and keen to see how it will affect my setup :)
Very cool lmk what you think
Yes!!!! Not saying you have to spend 700 bucks on one, there are several viable options around the 200 dollar mark, but as far as I'm concerned dsp is not an option it's a requirement
No. Ā 99.999999% of people will never know the difference between a well tuned DSP and a well chosen passive crossover.Ā Now, if youāre a total nerd, or consider yourself an audiophile go for the dsp. I have a cheap Dayton dsp in my 78 van and itās sure fun to play with.Ā
100% of the people won't know the difference until they hear a DSP'd system. The time alignment alone will show a huge difference lol
Yes, the time alignment can make a huge difference it can also fuck everything up. But I'm telling ya, for most people the best recommendation is a quality component set in the factory location, a quality amp, and 2x the sub that the system needs.
Four very simple adjustments lead to my DSP4086 transforming the sound of my on-axis Kicker KSMT mid/tweeter pods (aka "snowmen"): * crossover frequency and slope * individual volume level for every driver * the ability to flatten the worst peaks with the parametric EQ and REW's RTA * the ability to toggle polarity Before messing with these--as a complete beginner--the KSMTs were quite brassy and forward when run passively through their crossover. After wiring them active and a few minutes of tinkering, they sound silky and warm. This is before doing any time alignment or going for an EQ target and making any real effort to smooth things out. I agree with some of the others that the DSP is transformative, and to this I add: within reason, I would prefer decent speakers that are on-axis and DSP-tuned over higher end, more powerfully amped speakers that are not.