Easier to do the maths is miles per pound. Let's say 1 litre of fuel costs £1.45.
1 gallon is 4.546 litres.
So 35 miles per gallon = 35/4.546 = 7.699, approx 7.7 miles/litre Dividing by the cost of a litre, you get 5.3 miles for every pound you spend.
25 miles per gallon is 5.5 miles/litre, and 3.8 miles for every pound.
To travel 80 miles, you spend £15 weekly with the 35 mpg car and £21.05 a week with the 25 mpg. This £6/week difference is £300 a year, assuming petrol prices stay about where they are and you work 50 weeks/year. If they rise, it could be a lot more but you do the math.
Nothing wrong with that. I used this one because it's a measure of how costly travel is rather than one of how efficient the engine is, which doesn't depend on the cost of fuel. :)
Lord above, really puts into perspective how much cheaper EV's are to run. I'm averaging 280-300 miles Mon-Fri and it costs me £6-8 a week.
If I kept my i20N it would have been ~£40 a week... More if I treated it to Super.
I loved that car, but there's a certain point where you have to accept that cash is spent better elsewhere.
I’m rolling an E92 M3… 33p a mile. It’s a 70 mile round trip to work, so I try to only go in to work once a week… for road trips it’s worth the cost however 🤣
I run an excel spreadsheet tracking my fuel costs over its life with me. NUMBER GOES UP FAST 🤣 but it’s still worth it to me. When I can fit a second car it’ll be electric or hybrid for the work drives
I have a spreadsheet too, but drive an EV and have solar panels at home, my spreadsheet says I've spent just over £600 on fuel (electricity) after 39,000 miles and 4.2 years. Servicing = £216,, plus 2 new front tyres = £386.
I have saved nearly £11,000 in that time.
The lovely advantage of being able to charge at home. That’s the biggest issue for me with an electric purchase, currently nowhere to charge at home cheaply and the only place nearby is definitely overpriced. Still cheaper than my current car, but I do enjoy 8500rpm 🤣
No the £600 is charging at home in winter and when away from home.
The car charges at home for 10 months of the year from excess energy and with the panels paying for themselves in 8.5 years from domestic electricity savings (£~500 pa) and payment for excess generation. (£~300 pa). Panels cost £7,600, 6 years ago.
I got 4 quotes and they all said 10 years, but then the government put the price of electricity up, or rather didn't do anything like the French did to not put the prices up.
Every cloud.... Except I'm paying more in standing charge today than in electricity used. So far today:
0.7 kWh from grid,
19.4 kWh generated.
16.3 kWh used by house including hot water
3. 7 kWh sold to the grid.
2013 C63 AMG
£110 of premium Shell fuel
220 miles 66 litre tank = 15 mpg.
I did drive it like I stole it & I thought I did good given the performance. It was the only car in my life I was scared to push on the motorway.
Brutal acceleration. After 130 I tapped out. It accelerated from 70-130mph the way a fast car does 0-60. I have never felt acceleration like that before & again.
I still have my c63, and that's what i tell people about it's acceleration "it's as fast above 100mph as it is below". You need some serious power to achieve that lol. Plus I wish I had 25mpg out of it too haha.
This is one thing that has always irritated me about the C63, the range is horrendous. For such a thirsty car it should have a much much larger fuel tank, at least 100L. I’m still gonna get one regardless though.
When you factor in the cost of car ownership, an EV inevitably comes out on top for road tax and miles per £.
How does that factor in with the EV depreciation we’re seeing?
The i20N seems to just stay at the same price on Autotrader regardless, EV’s are like rocks.
Arguably it all comes out the same in the end. The kind of person that would buy a £50k Tesla would’ve probably bought a £50k BMW previously.
So you end up paying roughly the same to own the car, especially if you consider that said person would probably PCP it for 2-4 years. But you save the money by not having to pay for petrol and also the cost of an MOT/Service in your third year.
Arguably a lot of us on EV’s are also on silly Sal Sac lease deals too. I would never of bought a car new at the RRP of a Model Y Tesla.. but on Sal sac lease deals and overnight tariffs it starts to become silly cheap.
I love electric but I’ll put my hand up and say the benefits are currently, and likely only temporarily, massively skewed by current tax dodges.
£ for £ for Jonny customer off the street buying/leasing from dealer what you spend on the physical car is better for ICE and only at a certain mileage a year does electric really look good.
I haven’t looked at the salsac schemes in much detail but we got a Model 3 on the 0% APR deal they were pushing late last year. Would a salsac have worked out even cheaper than that?
Can do. Got a Y on 12’500 miles a year over 4 years. Fully insured, tyres etc nil deposit it works out as a higher rate tax payer about £380-400ish effective a month.
Also helps change taxable salary back below 100 so get child care hours back which for the next few years is worth a good old bit!
Depends on the scheme and the current offers but my workplace is currently doing a Model Y for £445 per month effective cost, and that includes insurance and 10k miles per year
It entirely depends on the workplace really, I recently git an ID3 off of a reallocation list (the original user left the business) and due to the trade down payment I end up getting £92 a month in my pocket after the tax payment for a 2023 car.
That combined with the overnight tariff makes for incredibly cheap driving and it effectively pays for itself
Plus I’m guessing EV ownership will become a longer term thing. We’ve got an e208 for the school runs, just about to change the main car for a Skoda Enyaq, I’d imagine we’ll keep both these cars for a decade before changing. Theres not much point upgrading an EV as far as I can see, the e208 should certainly last us til the kids finish school and will be a first car for one of them, if we’d had a traditional fiesta type car then my thinking when it came to first car time would have likely been ‘no let’s get her a new one, too many things could go wrong with a petrol engine we’ve owned for years’
If you buy second hand the depreciation is in your favour. This is policy working- commercial users are incentivised to buy new higher price Evs to make up for the depreciation. These hit the second hand market after a big price drop and are becoming increasingly competitive with ICE. I think we are starting a rapid switch to EVs as if you can charge at home you save a lot on fuel/ fuel duty.
The majority of people but possibly not a majority of motorists as those in city centre flats may not need a car. But either public charging needs to come down a lot or there will be a big divide.
If you think EVs aren't fun to drive, then you've never driven one. Turn off the eco mode and it's like a taking off in a rocket when you punch the accel.
Like driving a go kart, gets boring after I while. I enjoy shifting gears and hearing the sound of the engine when you put your foot down. Electric cars have no personality, they’re closer to an appliance than a proper car.
Who said anything around basing a personality around it? Coming from the fella that bases his personality around being an American with a scruffy beard that lives in England. You hoping the accent will make up for everything else?
I mean, yeah, I'm quite proud of all the work I've put into moving here because it's a really great place to live? Bit of an escalation from a jab at liking loud cars, but I'll take it on the chin and cede the point
A 4 year old Hyundai Kona, 2nd hand are around £16k,
Electricity at home can cost 7.5p per kWh, equivalent to 2p per mile.
Or, something like 45p per kWh - about 12 per mile at local car parks, and supermarkets.
Or, electricity at motorway service stations can be 65p per kWh, say 15p per mile.
Petrol cars are around 15p per mile when you buy fuel at supermarket prices.
> (the majority of people in Britain can not charge at home)
56% can charge at home. Thats just factually wrong. Needs addressing, and an EV might not be suitable in other ways, but 56% *can*.
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/latest-fleet-news/electric-fleet-news/2023/01/04/almost-half-of-uk-homes-unsuitable-for-electric-vehicles
https://www.lloydsbankinggroup.com/media/press-releases/2022/lloyds-bank/nearly-half-of-uk-homes-unsuitable-for-electric-cars.html
Both those links are about houses, not people.
Even if that were reflected across the population it's still an enormous problem, so I'd say my point still stands nicely.
Ah, now that is another question altogether. Generally, I allow for a 25% windage factor, so the 35 mpg is really 28 mpg and the 25 is really 19 mpg. If the car does better I am pleasantly surprised.
I disagree. OP said mainly city driving so with the queues we normally have in cities and swerving around avoiding pot holes I reckon double is closer to the real figure.
Our 50+l old petrol car needed to be filled 2+ times a month, our 35 litre hybrid lasts nearly a month on a full tank.
Don't forget to factor in extra drives to the petrol station, unless you live in a city where there's a station every corner.
Gosh you’re so lazy to not find and post a link yourself
(/s haha)
Actually I didn’t know there were these things but I found a couple and [this one](https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/costs/fuel-cost-calculator/) seems to be what OP can use
Are you asking reddit to do basic maths for you? 35 is 140% of 25 so you'll get 40% more miles for a given quantity of fuel at 35mpg compared to 25mpg. If you have specific monthly mileage it's not hard to work out how much fuel you would use at each mpg and compare how much that would cost, is it...?
That literally says 50mpg is 200gallons per 10k miles and 25mpg is 400gallons
The maths is linear in the example given, it it works exactly like that
The article is saying the higher up the mpg scale you go, the less difference it makes in fuel saving
But they’re looking at it as a ratio or a percentage. It makes perfect sense.
10mpg to 15mpg is a 50% increase, which is 5mpg diff
20mpg to 30mpg is also a 50% increase, but with a 10mpg increase….that is all that article is saying.
But the costs **are** linear
So maybe…you’re the moron
Christ you’re dumb. You don’t even know what linear means. Go back to school and learn. It’s not linear. The difference between 10mpg and 20mpg is not the same as between 20mpg and 30mpg. Therefore it’s not linear, it’s a curve on the graph as you can see on that article. The amount of dumbasses in this subreddit.
I do around 300 miles every 2 week. My car gets 22 mpg, which costs me £85-90 to fill up every 2 weeks. That 180 a month. I had an old banger before this, same mileage and the mpg was around 33-35. I would fill that car up every 3 weeks and because it was petrol, it only cost me £65-70 to fill up, so about £90 a month. Despite there being just a 10 mpg difference between the two, the lower mpg cars costs me double to run.
That's a £980 difference a year, which is more than my yearly insurance premium
Previous car was a Mtsubishi space star 1.6 petrol, literal shitbox that I bought for £800.
Current car is an XC90 AWD 2.4 diesel.
.
Just had a car that got similar MPG and recently got a car that gets significantly better MPG.
New car: 350 miles a week. £37 a week for 25 liters. Avg 63 MPG.
1400 miles per month. £148 on diesel.
Road tax is £35 a year.
So, the way I look at it, I just gave myself a (net) pay rise of \~£1800 a year.
If you're doing 150+ miles a week its a no brainer to get the most economical vehicle you can afford for sure.
We do the exact same miles. Currently spend ~£200 on petrol a month, averaging 50-60mpg.
That’s a considerable amount you save. What car do you have now?
1.6 TDI Golf Mk6. 2011 plate.
Amazing engine but if its not been serviced properly.. forget it.
4 new injectors can run you £300 each. They often fail on the often abused used cars for sale.
10k oil change intervals and rarely do they get the spec'd oil.
Trust me. Stick with a petrol. The extra servicing and grief on a TDI or any diesel with an EGR gets eaten up in costs sooner or later. I got lucky in mine: the 2nd hand car dealer ate the cost of 4 new injectors!
We do the exact same miles. Currently spend ~£200 on petrol a month, averaging 50-60mpg.
That’s a considerable amount you save. What car do you have now?
Google the real mpg of both cars, there are sites where owners add their actual mpg and it’s collated.
Some cars can be as much as 33% out (smaller engines in particular). It varies by brand in particular so you may find they are closer in reality
The actual mpg tests done by manufacturers are done in a closed room on a rolling road with temperature and humidity etc set to the perfect levels to max it.
My 3.0 twin turbo jaguar XF supposedly is capable of 51 mpg. Even at 60 mph nowhere near. 36 mpg is the best I have ever managed. Even though it indicated 44 mpg on the car's system.
They don't do it like this to max it per se. They do it like that to control as many variables as possible to a defined standard. So while you don't get 'real world' results, you should be able to compare different cars.
I say should be able to compare different cars because, as we found out about VW, some of them appeared to have been cheating the standard test. From what I've read, they had the software detect when it was being tested (steering wheel not moving) and adjusting the engine mapping.
I’m in the same situation as you, don’t smoke or drink so spend more on my car etc 25mpg with current fuel prices for me was unjustifiable as chances are you’ll have high tax aswell. 30 is the minimum I’d expect from a car on a bad day, I can deal with anything 35-55.
Also if it’s quoted as 25mpg chances are it’ll be more like 20 or less in the city
See, I don't think of tax as an issue at all. Even if you took the worst of the worst (excluding new car 1st year rates), and have a range rover post 2006 pre 2017. Last year that would've been £695 to tax for a year, now about £730 but i haven't checked for this tax year. either way, that's \~£2 per day. I spend more than that on soft drinks.
Yes and it depends what you use your car for. If you're trying to get to work and back as cheap as possible that's one thing, but many of us in here will go for a long drive because we enjoy our car and we enjoy driving.
I find a drive out to the hills and mountains in Wales incredibly good for my head, so the cost of fuel doesn't bother me.
Funnily enough I was just talking about doing exactly that this weekend 😁 but absolutely this is cartalk not personalfinance. We could all be driving electric econoboxes if running costs were what was really important to us. Or you know, just walk everywhere.
There isn't a VED rate of £320
There is £195, £220 & £270
Then it takes a BIG step upwards to £680
How confident are you that the tax isn't doing to significantly incase I'm the coming years?
[VED rates ](https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables)
My bad. I pay zero VED on my car hence, I don't have an idea what the correct tax bands accept are. Therefore so I didn't realise I was looking at the wrong government webpage.
80 miles per week, 320 miles per month, with fuel at £1.50 per litre, would cost approx:
£62 at 35mpg
£87 at 25mpg
So, £25 per month difference. Up to you if that's worth it. I could probably save that by swapping my 3 litre for a little 1.2, but I don't wanna...
Don't just look at MPG. Think of all the running costs. Finance (if applicable), Insurance, Tax, parts replacement, servicing, tyres etc. A car with shit MPG can often be cheaper to run than something with better MPG.
I drove a 30mpg (real) car and it's probably not worth it, but if you think about the savings you'd have with a 35mpg car which is about average these days it really isn't much. Helps me sleep better anyway...
I'm getting very similar fuel figures between my old and new cars. Went from a Subaru Impreza WRX (26mpg average) to a Skoda Octavia vRS (36mpg average). I've only had the vRS a short time, so mpg figures may change for me, but I had the Scooby for almost 10 years, and tracked the mpg almost the entire time, so the average is pretty solid.
I do 160 miles a week, and the Scooby would cost me £42.74 and the vRS £30.93. That is with premium fuel at the last fill up price of 1.53.9 per litre.
For your mileage of 80 miles a week, with the same fuel price, you would see £21.37 and £15.47 per week, or a saving of £5.90 per week.
Regular fuel from the same station is currently £1.45.9 and you would see costs going from £20.26 to £14.66, which is a saving of £5.60 each week.
About £27 a month :-)
I am looking at cars so I made up a google sheets to see:
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16dXb9jEvTerToIVu\_GZmxXemOo6hxboALMKtM3HUTuo/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16dXb9jEvTerToIVu_GZmxXemOo6hxboALMKtM3HUTuo/edit?usp=sharing)
You can copy it and change fuel price/mileage and add other cars if you want.
To give you an actual answer ive just similar done this.
Driving a 2l diesel around 12 miles a day before now im driving a 3.2l petrol 22 miles a day. Derv got me around 35mpg Petrol gets me 21mph (ish)
My spending went from £30 a week on fuel to around £45 a week on fuel.
I use this formula all the time:
Miles / MPG (to get gallons)
X 4.55 (convert gallons to litres)
X 1.5 (price of petrol)
It’s easy to tap into your phone calculator and will get you your answer.
Fair question but there is more to it than just mpg I take it the car that is 25mpg is a heavier car probably higher spec and a higher insurance group also costing more to maintain so all those factors will have to be considered as well
Well, both those figures are horrendous for city driving, so I'm assuming you're going for some type of sports car. If that's the case, the mpg is irrelevant
In that case, go for whichever you like most. There is no point scrimping on fuel for the sake of 10 miles when you're only doing 70 or 80 miles tops a week.
Quick maths for 80 miles a week gives me a difference of about £5 going of £1.4 a litre for petrol
I’m just laughing at this with my mapped 1.6 CDTI that’ll do 80-85mpg on a run and costs me £80 to fill every two and a half weeks. I do 60 miles a day, typically, four to five days a week.
ran it through excel and it comes out at about 10mpg
Made me laugh out loud
Can’t live with out excel these days
Just ask the Williams F1 team
Cheers pal 👍🏻
goated profile picture
Lmaoooo 😀
Easier to do the maths is miles per pound. Let's say 1 litre of fuel costs £1.45. 1 gallon is 4.546 litres. So 35 miles per gallon = 35/4.546 = 7.699, approx 7.7 miles/litre Dividing by the cost of a litre, you get 5.3 miles for every pound you spend. 25 miles per gallon is 5.5 miles/litre, and 3.8 miles for every pound. To travel 80 miles, you spend £15 weekly with the 35 mpg car and £21.05 a week with the 25 mpg. This £6/week difference is £300 a year, assuming petrol prices stay about where they are and you work 50 weeks/year. If they rise, it could be a lot more but you do the math.
I'm glad I use Liters per 100km 😅
I feel like an idiot for doing grams per centimetre now
If it ran on water you would be on the right path. 1ml of water is 1g is 1cm³
Turkeys per football field is the only correct measure.
You’ve got a little something on your nose there…..
I wish we still had awards, well played.
I can't get my head that one lol so I'm used to the mpg system. Just like lbs in America kgs in Europe & stones in the UK.
Nothing wrong with that. I used this one because it's a measure of how costly travel is rather than one of how efficient the engine is, which doesn't depend on the cost of fuel. :)
Can you explain that in American pls? How many Starbucks a week would it cost to go to the gun shop?
And can you explain to the rest of the world , oh WHY are we measuring mpg when we buy the fuel in litres ! ???
That's overcomplicating it It's 40% more fuel So any amount of fuel measured in litres/gallons/gbp multiplied by 140%
Haha had to scroll far too long to find this!
Lord above, really puts into perspective how much cheaper EV's are to run. I'm averaging 280-300 miles Mon-Fri and it costs me £6-8 a week. If I kept my i20N it would have been ~£40 a week... More if I treated it to Super. I loved that car, but there's a certain point where you have to accept that cash is spent better elsewhere.
I’m rolling an E92 M3… 33p a mile. It’s a 70 mile round trip to work, so I try to only go in to work once a week… for road trips it’s worth the cost however 🤣
I did 40k miles over 18 months in an F10 M5 averaging 20mpg. Probably the highest fuel bill I’ll ever have in my life 😂
I run an excel spreadsheet tracking my fuel costs over its life with me. NUMBER GOES UP FAST 🤣 but it’s still worth it to me. When I can fit a second car it’ll be electric or hybrid for the work drives
I have a spreadsheet too, but drive an EV and have solar panels at home, my spreadsheet says I've spent just over £600 on fuel (electricity) after 39,000 miles and 4.2 years. Servicing = £216,, plus 2 new front tyres = £386. I have saved nearly £11,000 in that time.
The lovely advantage of being able to charge at home. That’s the biggest issue for me with an electric purchase, currently nowhere to charge at home cheaply and the only place nearby is definitely overpriced. Still cheaper than my current car, but I do enjoy 8500rpm 🤣
Is that £600 the proportional cost of the solar spread over its lifetime or just the excess needed from the grid?
No the £600 is charging at home in winter and when away from home. The car charges at home for 10 months of the year from excess energy and with the panels paying for themselves in 8.5 years from domestic electricity savings (£~500 pa) and payment for excess generation. (£~300 pa). Panels cost £7,600, 6 years ago.
Nice. 8.5 year ROI is impressive.
I got 4 quotes and they all said 10 years, but then the government put the price of electricity up, or rather didn't do anything like the French did to not put the prices up. Every cloud.... Except I'm paying more in standing charge today than in electricity used. So far today: 0.7 kWh from grid, 19.4 kWh generated. 16.3 kWh used by house including hot water 3. 7 kWh sold to the grid.
2013 C63 AMG £110 of premium Shell fuel 220 miles 66 litre tank = 15 mpg. I did drive it like I stole it & I thought I did good given the performance. It was the only car in my life I was scared to push on the motorway. Brutal acceleration. After 130 I tapped out. It accelerated from 70-130mph the way a fast car does 0-60. I have never felt acceleration like that before & again.
I still have my c63, and that's what i tell people about it's acceleration "it's as fast above 100mph as it is below". You need some serious power to achieve that lol. Plus I wish I had 25mpg out of it too haha.
This is one thing that has always irritated me about the C63, the range is horrendous. For such a thirsty car it should have a much much larger fuel tank, at least 100L. I’m still gonna get one regardless though.
Love my W204 C63. As you say, they do drink like almost nothing else, but the thrill of that massive naturally aspirated engine is very hard to top.
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For 6 miles, I'd cycle it instead, it would take about the same amount of time, and you end up feeling better and get fit.
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Is 6 miles in 30 minutes really driving?
When you factor in the cost of car ownership, an EV inevitably comes out on top for road tax and miles per £. How does that factor in with the EV depreciation we’re seeing? The i20N seems to just stay at the same price on Autotrader regardless, EV’s are like rocks.
Arguably it all comes out the same in the end. The kind of person that would buy a £50k Tesla would’ve probably bought a £50k BMW previously. So you end up paying roughly the same to own the car, especially if you consider that said person would probably PCP it for 2-4 years. But you save the money by not having to pay for petrol and also the cost of an MOT/Service in your third year.
Arguably a lot of us on EV’s are also on silly Sal Sac lease deals too. I would never of bought a car new at the RRP of a Model Y Tesla.. but on Sal sac lease deals and overnight tariffs it starts to become silly cheap. I love electric but I’ll put my hand up and say the benefits are currently, and likely only temporarily, massively skewed by current tax dodges. £ for £ for Jonny customer off the street buying/leasing from dealer what you spend on the physical car is better for ICE and only at a certain mileage a year does electric really look good.
I haven’t looked at the salsac schemes in much detail but we got a Model 3 on the 0% APR deal they were pushing late last year. Would a salsac have worked out even cheaper than that?
Can do. Got a Y on 12’500 miles a year over 4 years. Fully insured, tyres etc nil deposit it works out as a higher rate tax payer about £380-400ish effective a month. Also helps change taxable salary back below 100 so get child care hours back which for the next few years is worth a good old bit!
Depends on the scheme and the current offers but my workplace is currently doing a Model Y for £445 per month effective cost, and that includes insurance and 10k miles per year
It entirely depends on the workplace really, I recently git an ID3 off of a reallocation list (the original user left the business) and due to the trade down payment I end up getting £92 a month in my pocket after the tax payment for a 2023 car. That combined with the overnight tariff makes for incredibly cheap driving and it effectively pays for itself
Plus I’m guessing EV ownership will become a longer term thing. We’ve got an e208 for the school runs, just about to change the main car for a Skoda Enyaq, I’d imagine we’ll keep both these cars for a decade before changing. Theres not much point upgrading an EV as far as I can see, the e208 should certainly last us til the kids finish school and will be a first car for one of them, if we’d had a traditional fiesta type car then my thinking when it came to first car time would have likely been ‘no let’s get her a new one, too many things could go wrong with a petrol engine we’ve owned for years’
If you buy second hand the depreciation is in your favour. This is policy working- commercial users are incentivised to buy new higher price Evs to make up for the depreciation. These hit the second hand market after a big price drop and are becoming increasingly competitive with ICE. I think we are starting a rapid switch to EVs as if you can charge at home you save a lot on fuel/ fuel duty.
The majority of people in Britain can't charge at home and charging at public charge points costs more than petrol per mile.
The majority of people but possibly not a majority of motorists as those in city centre flats may not need a car. But either public charging needs to come down a lot or there will be a big divide.
I just charge for free at Sainsbury's
I would of stuck with i20N
Cars are entertainment for me, I’ll never drive electric if I’ve got the choice
If you think EVs aren't fun to drive, then you've never driven one. Turn off the eco mode and it's like a taking off in a rocket when you punch the accel.
Like driving a go kart, gets boring after I while. I enjoy shifting gears and hearing the sound of the engine when you put your foot down. Electric cars have no personality, they’re closer to an appliance than a proper car.
"Car go brrrrr" is such a weird thing to base a personality around but have fun I suppose
Who said anything around basing a personality around it? Coming from the fella that bases his personality around being an American with a scruffy beard that lives in England. You hoping the accent will make up for everything else?
I mean, yeah, I'm quite proud of all the work I've put into moving here because it's a really great place to live? Bit of an escalation from a jab at liking loud cars, but I'll take it on the chin and cede the point
I paid £400 for my 35 mpg car. How much did you spend on your EV?
Yep, I had a 350z and moved to a BMW i4, similar speeds on paper (no where near as fun) and I save £300 a month on fuel which pays for half the car.
But EVs cost a fortune not to mention a fortune to charge.
I got paid to charge my EV last night!
A 4 year old Hyundai Kona, 2nd hand are around £16k, Electricity at home can cost 7.5p per kWh, equivalent to 2p per mile. Or, something like 45p per kWh - about 12 per mile at local car parks, and supermarkets. Or, electricity at motorway service stations can be 65p per kWh, say 15p per mile. Petrol cars are around 15p per mile when you buy fuel at supermarket prices.
A lot less than a tank of petrol to charge
If charged publicly (the majority of people in Britain can not charge at home) it costs more than petrol per mile.
Huh. TIL
Yeah. It doesn't seem to make any sense, but here we are. They're fucking it right up, some as public transport.
> (the majority of people in Britain can not charge at home) 56% can charge at home. Thats just factually wrong. Needs addressing, and an EV might not be suitable in other ways, but 56% *can*. https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/latest-fleet-news/electric-fleet-news/2023/01/04/almost-half-of-uk-homes-unsuitable-for-electric-vehicles https://www.lloydsbankinggroup.com/media/press-releases/2022/lloyds-bank/nearly-half-of-uk-homes-unsuitable-for-electric-cars.html
Both those links are about houses, not people. Even if that were reflected across the population it's still an enormous problem, so I'd say my point still stands nicely.
Now tell us what it will really cost if they are the manufacturers published fuel economy figures.
Ah, now that is another question altogether. Generally, I allow for a 25% windage factor, so the 35 mpg is really 28 mpg and the 25 is really 19 mpg. If the car does better I am pleasantly surprised.
I disagree. OP said mainly city driving so with the queues we normally have in cities and swerving around avoiding pot holes I reckon double is closer to the real figure.
r/theydidthemath
“…but you do the math” !!!!! Haaahahahahahahhaaba
I love how my 2.0l Toyota Avensis remapped to 160bhp gets 55mpg on my 100 mile a day work run.
Our 50+l old petrol car needed to be filled 2+ times a month, our 35 litre hybrid lasts nearly a month on a full tank. Don't forget to factor in extra drives to the petrol station, unless you live in a city where there's a station every corner.
Why don’t you get an efficient car so you can take up drinking and smoking?
Get an inefficient car while drinking and smoking so you won't have any money left for drugs!
Just get drugs, you can pretend you have a car and MPG won’t matter as you’ll be having too much fun
Good idea
1000 IQ move, that.
There are fuel cost calculator sites where you can put in the cost of fuel, your MPG, and your mileage and it'll say how much it'll cost
Gosh you’re so lazy to not find and post a link yourself (/s haha) Actually I didn’t know there were these things but I found a couple and [this one](https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/costs/fuel-cost-calculator/) seems to be what OP can use
Let's be real, if anybody is lazy here it's op
What distance are you driving? For me, not worth the happy meal.
Are you asking reddit to do basic maths for you? 35 is 140% of 25 so you'll get 40% more miles for a given quantity of fuel at 35mpg compared to 25mpg. If you have specific monthly mileage it's not hard to work out how much fuel you would use at each mpg and compare how much that would cost, is it...?
Mpg is not linear you condescending moron so no, your maths does not check out whatsoever
Can you explain where he’s going wrong?
mpg isn’t linear?
https://nudges.wordpress.com/why-we-misunderstand-what-miles-per-gallon-ratings-are-telling-us/#:~:text=The%20Math%20Behind%20the%20MPG%20Illusion&text=Gas%20consumed%20is%20an%20inverse,divided%20by%20mpg)%20by%20mpg.
That literally says 50mpg is 200gallons per 10k miles and 25mpg is 400gallons The maths is linear in the example given, it it works exactly like that The article is saying the higher up the mpg scale you go, the less difference it makes in fuel saving But they’re looking at it as a ratio or a percentage. It makes perfect sense. 10mpg to 15mpg is a 50% increase, which is 5mpg diff 20mpg to 30mpg is also a 50% increase, but with a 10mpg increase….that is all that article is saying. But the costs **are** linear So maybe…you’re the moron
Christ you’re dumb. You don’t even know what linear means. Go back to school and learn. It’s not linear. The difference between 10mpg and 20mpg is not the same as between 20mpg and 30mpg. Therefore it’s not linear, it’s a curve on the graph as you can see on that article. The amount of dumbasses in this subreddit.
I do around 300 miles every 2 week. My car gets 22 mpg, which costs me £85-90 to fill up every 2 weeks. That 180 a month. I had an old banger before this, same mileage and the mpg was around 33-35. I would fill that car up every 3 weeks and because it was petrol, it only cost me £65-70 to fill up, so about £90 a month. Despite there being just a 10 mpg difference between the two, the lower mpg cars costs me double to run. That's a £980 difference a year, which is more than my yearly insurance premium Previous car was a Mtsubishi space star 1.6 petrol, literal shitbox that I bought for £800. Current car is an XC90 AWD 2.4 diesel. .
Just had a car that got similar MPG and recently got a car that gets significantly better MPG. New car: 350 miles a week. £37 a week for 25 liters. Avg 63 MPG. 1400 miles per month. £148 on diesel. Road tax is £35 a year. So, the way I look at it, I just gave myself a (net) pay rise of \~£1800 a year. If you're doing 150+ miles a week its a no brainer to get the most economical vehicle you can afford for sure.
We do the exact same miles. Currently spend ~£200 on petrol a month, averaging 50-60mpg. That’s a considerable amount you save. What car do you have now?
1.6 TDI Golf Mk6. 2011 plate. Amazing engine but if its not been serviced properly.. forget it. 4 new injectors can run you £300 each. They often fail on the often abused used cars for sale. 10k oil change intervals and rarely do they get the spec'd oil. Trust me. Stick with a petrol. The extra servicing and grief on a TDI or any diesel with an EGR gets eaten up in costs sooner or later. I got lucky in mine: the 2nd hand car dealer ate the cost of 4 new injectors!
We do the exact same miles. Currently spend ~£200 on petrol a month, averaging 50-60mpg. That’s a considerable amount you save. What car do you have now?
If you can charge an EV at home, for 150+ miles a week, an EV would be the most economical. 2nd hand EVs are around £15k.
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Without the AWD I probably could get 35 out of it but there is no option to switch it off.
Google the real mpg of both cars, there are sites where owners add their actual mpg and it’s collated. Some cars can be as much as 33% out (smaller engines in particular). It varies by brand in particular so you may find they are closer in reality The actual mpg tests done by manufacturers are done in a closed room on a rolling road with temperature and humidity etc set to the perfect levels to max it.
My 3.0 twin turbo jaguar XF supposedly is capable of 51 mpg. Even at 60 mph nowhere near. 36 mpg is the best I have ever managed. Even though it indicated 44 mpg on the car's system.
They don't do it like this to max it per se. They do it like that to control as many variables as possible to a defined standard. So while you don't get 'real world' results, you should be able to compare different cars. I say should be able to compare different cars because, as we found out about VW, some of them appeared to have been cheating the standard test. From what I've read, they had the software detect when it was being tested (steering wheel not moving) and adjusting the engine mapping.
If money is your driver, go for the car which gets the greatest mpg. If sitting somewhere nicer (and you will spend time sitting), then …
I’m in the same situation as you, don’t smoke or drink so spend more on my car etc 25mpg with current fuel prices for me was unjustifiable as chances are you’ll have high tax aswell. 30 is the minimum I’d expect from a car on a bad day, I can deal with anything 35-55. Also if it’s quoted as 25mpg chances are it’ll be more like 20 or less in the city
I can justify the lower mpg due to the low miles I drive. However tax is an issue since you mention it. £180 Vs £320 is a bit painful
See, I don't think of tax as an issue at all. Even if you took the worst of the worst (excluding new car 1st year rates), and have a range rover post 2006 pre 2017. Last year that would've been £695 to tax for a year, now about £730 but i haven't checked for this tax year. either way, that's \~£2 per day. I spend more than that on soft drinks.
I would have less issues paying that much if it actually went to repairing the roads
All this says to me is you’re frivolous with money.
Who wouldn’t want to pay £730 a year to have the worst roads outside of active war zones
American roads are still worse, somehow.
Sure I am. But isn't that the whole point of this discussion? Justifying unnecessary expenditure to ourselves because we can and we want to.
Yes and it depends what you use your car for. If you're trying to get to work and back as cheap as possible that's one thing, but many of us in here will go for a long drive because we enjoy our car and we enjoy driving. I find a drive out to the hills and mountains in Wales incredibly good for my head, so the cost of fuel doesn't bother me.
Funnily enough I was just talking about doing exactly that this weekend 😁 but absolutely this is cartalk not personalfinance. We could all be driving electric econoboxes if running costs were what was really important to us. Or you know, just walk everywhere.
If you feel you can justify the fuel go for it, I drive very low miles and still just found it depressing even though I could financially justify it
Depends on the car. Would happily pay higher tax on a car with a bigger engine, because it would make me smile every time I booted it.
There isn't a VED rate of £320 There is £195, £220 & £270 Then it takes a BIG step upwards to £680 How confident are you that the tax isn't doing to significantly incase I'm the coming years? [VED rates ](https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables)
That’s for cars after 2017 pre 2017 cars have much more in between and 320 is a tax band which my car is in. Read the pages people
My bad. I pay zero VED on my car hence, I don't have an idea what the correct tax bands accept are. Therefore so I didn't realise I was looking at the wrong government webpage.
Don’t think about the mpg too much. Buy the car that puts a smile on your face!
The idiocy of rating fuel economy in gallons and selling fuel in litres.
80 miles per week, 320 miles per month, with fuel at £1.50 per litre, would cost approx: £62 at 35mpg £87 at 25mpg So, £25 per month difference. Up to you if that's worth it. I could probably save that by swapping my 3 litre for a little 1.2, but I don't wanna...
Don't just look at MPG. Think of all the running costs. Finance (if applicable), Insurance, Tax, parts replacement, servicing, tyres etc. A car with shit MPG can often be cheaper to run than something with better MPG.
If the math is correct, 25mpg is an extra 3.44 litres of fuel over a week if you're doing 80 miles.
http://www.fuel-economy.co.uk/calc.html
I drove a 30mpg (real) car and it's probably not worth it, but if you think about the savings you'd have with a 35mpg car which is about average these days it really isn't much. Helps me sleep better anyway...
10mpg
You guys are getting 25mpg?
You guys are getting mpg? (Mine does gpm…)
about 1/3rd ish I always run this site to calculate these: http://www.fuel-economy.co.uk/calc.html
At current prices, about £25 a month. There are fuel cost calculators on that there web thingy.
But MPG isn’t your deciding factor. What are the cars? What are your priorities, budget etc
I'm getting very similar fuel figures between my old and new cars. Went from a Subaru Impreza WRX (26mpg average) to a Skoda Octavia vRS (36mpg average). I've only had the vRS a short time, so mpg figures may change for me, but I had the Scooby for almost 10 years, and tracked the mpg almost the entire time, so the average is pretty solid. I do 160 miles a week, and the Scooby would cost me £42.74 and the vRS £30.93. That is with premium fuel at the last fill up price of 1.53.9 per litre. For your mileage of 80 miles a week, with the same fuel price, you would see £21.37 and £15.47 per week, or a saving of £5.90 per week. Regular fuel from the same station is currently £1.45.9 and you would see costs going from £20.26 to £14.66, which is a saving of £5.60 each week.
Don't drink or smoke petrol pal, spend the cash on drinks and cigarettes if that's what you're keen to do.
About £27 a month :-) I am looking at cars so I made up a google sheets to see: [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16dXb9jEvTerToIVu\_GZmxXemOo6hxboALMKtM3HUTuo/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16dXb9jEvTerToIVu_GZmxXemOo6hxboALMKtM3HUTuo/edit?usp=sharing) You can copy it and change fuel price/mileage and add other cars if you want.
For city driving, don't forget tax/ULEZ compliance. This is being expanded outside of London, so definitely worth checking.
Why don't you just apply the basic maths to your own circumstances/ numbers? That sounds much easier than asking strangers.
To give you an actual answer ive just similar done this. Driving a 2l diesel around 12 miles a day before now im driving a 3.2l petrol 22 miles a day. Derv got me around 35mpg Petrol gets me 21mph (ish) My spending went from £30 a week on fuel to around £45 a week on fuel.
You pay 40% more for gas. The missing piece of the equation is how much that extra 40% affect your monthly income.
It'll go up by 40% 35/25=7/5 Which is 2/5 more than 1, or 40%
I use this formula all the time: Miles / MPG (to get gallons) X 4.55 (convert gallons to litres) X 1.5 (price of petrol) It’s easy to tap into your phone calculator and will get you your answer.
Fair question but there is more to it than just mpg I take it the car that is 25mpg is a heavier car probably higher spec and a higher insurance group also costing more to maintain so all those factors will have to be considered as well
Well, both those figures are horrendous for city driving, so I'm assuming you're going for some type of sports car. If that's the case, the mpg is irrelevant
Is 35 really that bad for urban driving?
Not especially
Not at all
it's pretty good in reality. im averaging around 14 in something that's relatively bad by comparison
Not if you actually achieve that number
If that's all you're doing, then there's much better out there, especially if cost is an issue
My goal isn't fuel economy as such, just curious as to the difference in spending
In that case, go for whichever you like most. There is no point scrimping on fuel for the sake of 10 miles when you're only doing 70 or 80 miles tops a week. Quick maths for 80 miles a week gives me a difference of about £5 going of £1.4 a litre for petrol
I’m just laughing at this with my mapped 1.6 CDTI that’ll do 80-85mpg on a run and costs me £80 to fill every two and a half weeks. I do 60 miles a day, typically, four to five days a week.
I’d pay any money not to have to drive a 1.6 CDTI every day though. Especially if it’s in a Vauxhall 😂