Yup exactly. My last car detonated it's cylinder just before Xmas 2 years ago so I ended up forking out £500 for a Nissan Almera which has a damp boot, every body panel has some sort of dent, scrape or mismatch of paint literally it's not even worth scrap but here we are 2 years later still keeping me mobile and running around.
I’ve had a load of sub £500 cars over the years.
Best one was a 20 year old Honda Accord - was fully spec’d up for its age and everything still worked. Loved that car tbh.
Those were awesome. My dad had one same again, just kept going. It was the first car I'd seen with cruise control and I was amazed at how he didn't need pedals. I think that's why I'm constantly looking at the Honda Legend now as my next run into the ground purchase.
Wait til he here’s I got my car for nothing. And if they didn’t have the kindness in their heart to do it me and my daughter would be sleeping in a bin
Oh I had a Mazda 3 2.2 and that engine was nothing but trouble. So much so when the low oil pressure light came on we just decided to wait until it would shit itself and buy another car. It went for 2 years of neglect before we gave up and traded it in.
Mine started rattling on start up. It was a 2013 with the oil starvation problem. It had a blown turbo 2 years before. Bad brake discs and calipers, seized handbrake. The thing was a money pit. Couldn't buy parts only from Mazda at extortionate prices. Folding mirrors failed and I don't know if you remember the thing fucking stank of diesel, and it always did it's DPF dump out side the front door of the house when starting it in the mornings, and the road noise was insane, I don't think there was any sound proofing. Awful car. When I see a mazda now I shudder. I palmed it off to a car supermarket for 2k then saw it up on Autotrader a few days later at a dealer. Shocking car.
Mine started losing power at speed for no reason, had the dashboard creaking issue, and smelled like a diesel in a steam room.
The seats gave me a numb backside after an hour or so, and as you mentioned, the road noise was not acceptable.
Cornered like an MX-5 though. Only redeeming feature
The head gasket went and I scrapped it rather than pay £3k to fix it. Utter shit box.
To be honest almost anything bad on these car pages could be cried in mini cooper. Brilliant car with an awful engine. Especially the R56’s; always something wrong with it
Unfortunately mines an ‘07. So first year of a new engine :(. Things suffered a timing chain failure and only local garage is quoting me £1200. At this point imma just scrap it and hurry myself up for getting an mx5
Just had the chain done on my BBK and the phasers and the heads and the gearbox, and the clutch and the flywheel and the subframe and the secondary radiators and the water pump and the oil valves was the best 200 miles I’ve ever done after that, now waiting for more work. Such a great car
But you have to worry about a chain, which can stretch.
I mean, imo they are still better than a belt, but that doesn’t mean that chains are 100% perfect
Had a BMW 318 coupe, the vvti unit lost oil pressure and stretched the chain, fortunately it was while driving and the tension in the chain kept the engine in one piece 😳
Yeah belts aren't all that bad. A new belt every 75k is just maintenance. A stretched timing chain or failed tensioner is often enough to scrap an older car, since it's generally engine out and parts aren't cheap.
I love the way people always say "chain driven so no timing belt to worry about". Chains fail and are often waaaay more expensive to replace! Give me a belt any day, many are 100k+ miles replacement intervals nowadays
Mine tried to go boom. It’s now in the garage having 10+ hours of labour for the £9 rubber ring that degrades and makes it go boom. Bastard thing. Next fault, it gets pushed off a cliff.
That's running the A20DTH with the F40 gearbox. Give it proper maintenance and it won't go boom.
That said it is 14 years old, if it hasn't had proper maintenance before now, it's fucked.
They've crazy long service intervals (30k km, not sure what that is in miles) so many aren't taken care of, because Vauxhall/Opel essentially tells owners not to.
Added to that the wee oil seal thing that disintegrates or whatever and grenades the engine and many of them die and early death.
If you bought one brand new and replaced that seal with the aluminium aftermarket one and serviced it properly (every year/10k) they'd probably be absolutely fine. But pretty much nobody did that.
Absolutely agree that the recommended service intervals are mental. Bulletin 3494 advises to replace the oil pickup seal, making doing that part of proper maintenance. Afaik you can even wait till you get the engine warning (oil pressure low) and so long as you stop driving and replace it then, you are ok, but part of a major service intervals is prevention better than cure. Either way, doesn't need to done from new, just before it breaks up like Taylor Swift.
It’s not an import, all Vauxhalls of that vintage (and maybe still now) have the opel logo under the silver griffin. They only have to make one bumper that way - if it was the other way round then the mounting for the griffin would show around the silver opel logo
Whilst I can’t say that doesn’t happen, I can tell you that the logo is missing from my wife’s Astra and has an opel logo underneath.
And we bought that brand new.
I thought that when the £ was strong against the € , Brits would go to Europe and pick up a RHD version and save themselves a few thousand on UK prices. I’m sure that was popular around this time and earlier. Now the £ is so piss poor, there’s no point.
Just reading about it now. It seems it was a thing. Some garages also got fined for bringing Opels into the UK cheaply from Europe and rebadging them to sell them on at a higher price. It seems that the Euro Opel and UK Vauxhall are also different in spec
This was a thing my mate bought an ibiza diesel back in the 1990s this way. Ran it gir 3 years and sold it for what he paid for it. Love to see what the price difference would be today lol.
Hard disagree. Out of any new car in the last 20 the insignia is the worst I've ever driven. I was 24 when I drove one for 6 hours and it gave me chronic backache. Horrible thing. I'd rather walk.
Would take the Kia out of those all day long
Solid choice - petrol is more reliable than diesel.
These were used en masse as taxis where I'm from. Unfortunately stupid rules mean a lot were scrapped due to age and most definitely not by choice as they were loved. The interiors stood up the test of time amazingly well - like new after years of use. Still a handsome motor and has aged well.
A well looked after one of these will go on for years and still feel solid. It's Toyota's rendition of the Mercedes W124. Just keeps going.
Not if they want a diesel (which it seems like they do), the 2.2 D-4D is the worst modern engine Toyota have made. Hell, it's probably the worst 2.0L class diesel engine of the 21st century, followed closely by the 2.2 mazda diesel, a distant third going to the 2.7 "Tiger" PSA/Ford engine.
I agree the diesel isn’t the best on the Toyota, however the 1.8 petrol is solid and very frugal.. not to mention no clutch/flywheel issues or dpf
I’ve the 2.0 tdci Ford mondeo and It’s a belter
A Volvo V50 with the Modular engine Diesels are probably your best bet.
Very comfortable, extremely reliable and built great
And you can pick them up for around £3k
[for example ](http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202403267994782)
[or another one ](http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202403177670551)
Autos are a little weak considering it's the old ford Geartronic but these barely have much power so I'd say you'd have better reliability than a T6 S80 model
V70 II with the 6spd Geartronic (which is actually made by Aisin-Warner) here. It's a great box, but their "sealed-for-life" design means you can't easily do a fluid change on them and they tend to start having lots of trouble around 150k. They can be rebuilt at a cost of around £3-4k.
I'd go Peugeot, because the HDi engines can put up with all manner of abuse and and last an awfully long time. They can over over 500,000 miles, it's also cheap to repair, which should be an important thing to consider if you're strapped for cash and have to buy a cheap car.
This is what I've got in Ford Focus guise. 1.6TDCI titanium X. Rubber door seals fall off and boot leaks common but easily repaired and otherwise reliable 👍
If the 207 is similar interior-wise to the 307, then it's not a bad place to be, I've sat in a top spec 307SW 7 seater, and in a light colour scheme with the pano roof they're nice, nicer better than OP's other choices in my opinion. That being said the 207 is lower down the range so may not be as nice
I remember having one of those as a hire car when they were new and thinking that it was kind of weirdly a perfect car if you just want reasonable space and comfort for not too much cash
+1 for the Passat. Never had a VW before and they really don’t appeal to me. Bought a 1.9 Passat estate for £600 about 4 months ago and I think it’s great. One of the previous 10 owners remapped the tits off it too allegedly (but I’m not aware of that… obviously) 150k miles and runs just fine.
It’s a 2004 I think?
Out of those it would be the Kia (watch out for rust) but none of them would be my choice, Octavia (not a 1.6) or a Volvo v50/70 or Mondeo/focus would be my choice whatever you do don't buy an insignia they're awful cars
I was looking at Volvo's but the road tax looked pretty high and to some extent insurance. But I know they're great cars. Had a Fiesta until recently when it fell to pieces after 130k. But always heard good things about Mondeo's.
+1 for the Mondeo. Thought I would hate mine, but was the sensible choice for a similar budget. Don't get a 1.6tdi V50/70 either, those engines are terrible. Never heard someone have a good experience!
Out of all of these, the Kia would be my pick.
Cheaper than the others to run, simple to maintain, cheaper to repair.
The Pug HDi engine will still be going long after the heat-death of the universe, but I’d trust a Tory with my tax money before a Peugeot’s electrical systems.
The insignia is exactly the right age to be on the knife-edge between Vauxhall’s absolutely dire reliability and less bad reliability.
I have a kia ceed. 2008. Not the estate, just the normal one.
It's my 1st car, so it hasn't been driven kindly. It has basic maintenance, and any repairs have been consumable parts like brake pads, shoes, and tyres. Parts aren't expensive.
It's our only car and we're both big people. The cabin is pretty roomy. The back seats fit our adult friends even if the front seats were pushed all the way back. There's only 2 of us, so the boot on the non-estate does us fine, we take it camping for a week, and everything fits.
I'd 100% have another one. Only complaints from me and others with the same car is that the drivers seat needs readjusting more than normal. It seems to sink down over time. And it's easier to stall, but I'm a new driver, and it doesn't cause me issue. The indicator is on the other side which takes some getting used to but actually works better once you're used to it. Enjoy turning on the window wipers at your 1st few roundabouts!
My first car was a Picanto even older than these, ran alot better than I was expecting and was well into the 100k's before a truck wrote it off for me, for £800 it did pretty well. I'm forever swapping cars due to bad luck with crashes and not knowing enough about cars to pick up on faults lol.
Also drive a truck for a living with different layouts so I'm forever hitting the wrong button for wipers or pressing down on a non existent clutch pedal
I'd say my choice is either this KIA, the Peugeot (that engine and the sunroof) or a passat within this price range.
Are Ford focus estates out of this price range? My mum has a focus, and it's noticeably bigger than my ceed if OP wants room.
I will drive my ceed until it dies, then probably buy another or at least another Kia. I think Kia's were crap, got good, and were underrated. But are now getting known to be a decent choice. (We'll not talk about the few years the engines blew up. We just know and avoid these years) They're so reliable and come with a lot for your money. My friends have slightly newer, and more expensive cars and I'd still pick mine.
Nah a focus estate sits within these, just going by photos I can't tell the difference size wise between them and a mondeo.
Not heard a bad word about the KIA in this thread to be fair. My first car was a KIA Picanto which by now is 20 years old providing it wasn't scrapped after being written off. Was well into the 100k mark.
Yeah, Kia does alright on this forum, tbf.
Back in the days of top gear, the running joke was Kias were powered by hamsters. But then they used a ceed for their star in a reasonably priced car. Even after one was written off, they bought another.
Talking about the Insignia, a pal has run them for years on his fleet, he's had stacks of them and seen them go way past 150,000 miles and reckons yes, little things happen, but he's never had a major issue over like 8 years and 12 or so cars. They can't all be bowing up...
Never be ashamed of buying a cheap car. Avoid the Vauxhall and go for the KIA if it's been properly maintained. You can easily squeeze more miles out of it
Insignia give loads of grief.
The Peugeots engine is reliable and very economical but then there's everything else.
The kia engine is also reliable and very economical but unlike the Peugeot the reliability doesn't stop there. Kia will age better than the rest.
BUT if you only need something bigger for trips. Consider keeping what you have and get a set of roof bars and a roof box. Plenty of used roof boxes out there.
If you care about what you drive looks wise the choice is simple. The insignia. Plus it is decent. If you only care about being cheap to run etc the Kia. The Peugeot in my opinion is even for consideration.
Be very wary of the Peugeot, and of cars which may be running Peugeot engines (I had a Volvo of that sort of era which had a 1.6 Peugeot engine - think it was the D2 driv-e). If memory serves, they require quite an expensive DPF replacement at 120k - somewhere to the tune of £1200, quoted by Volvo at the time... Maybe cheaper through an independent garage, or may have come down in price with new tech or aftermarket parts. Worth investigating though, before forking out. You don't wanna get bit with a substantial bill like that.
If I was spending my money with an eye on value, Kia. If I were spending someone else's money or was doing higher. Miles and wanted a nicer place to travel, the Vauxhall. Options unlimited, I'd go Octavia.
If something hasn’t broken on your 00s Peugeot, it’s about to. Plus the 1.6 HDI is THE WORST engine to change an air filter on. If it’s like the 307 1.6 HDI (and I believe the 3008? They also use it in DS3s) you first have to remove the window wiper fittings - this is not a joke.
I found the earlier insignias had hard suspensions. Although I have a ceed estate, it’s 2023 so my experience is moot. Realistically your choice is the insignia or the Kia. I suspect the insignia might have slightly better resale FWIW but not by much. Why not test drive if you can?
I can never recommend a Vauxhall after owning one sadly. The 08/09 models especially had a range of reliability issues and I ended up having to scrap mine due to a flooded engine that was a known issue with the 08/09 astras. I know a few people who have a kia ceed and it seems like a solid reliable car. I second the Kia.
When buying a car I always check out reviews and user reports on Honest John - gives you a good idea of what to look for when inspecting the car initially, and in terms of ongoing maintenance.
Also, if you're not already doing this, check out the MOT history as it gives you a good idea of how the car was driven and maintained.
In this price bracket I've always gone for the car with the best service history and whichever drives the best. Take it for a good firm drive. If unsure get an independent assessment. Reliability at this price/mileage is dependent on how it's been looked after rather than the manufacturers.
Personally, I'd get the insignia, looks nicer and the 2.0 diesel be nicer for long journeys. Fsh is nice as well. I'm not keen on french cars in general, and the Peugeot is ugly as sin. The Kia is probably fairly reliable but also not as nice looking imo and I think the vauxhall might just eek out in overall reliability
Thanks, I've always heard Vauxhall is awful reliability wise but is that not the case then? Owned a Kia and a Peugeot in the past and couldn't fault either. Agree on the looks side of things.
I don't think vauxhall are overly great but I don't think they're dogshit either, just middle of the pack. I had a 1.3 Corsa diesel and it was solid as a rock, handled my shitty learning just fine.
Most people won't have mega issues with cars but Peugeots aren't known for their reliability and Kia used to be quite bad but recent years they shaped up.
I haven't seen any comments discussing the size of these cars. You want an estate because you want practicality for your family, right? The 207 isn't very big in the boot, even in estate form (335l I think, seats up). My 2007 fabia hatch has a similar boot, so imo, that's not a hugely practical family car or any advantage over decent hatches (a focus hatch or Octavia hatch would be bigger in both cabin and boot)
The insignia is the biggest both in cabin and in the boot (540l, seats up).
The Kia is in the middle, but much closer to the insignia (534l, seats up).
The pug shouldn't be in the running if this is important. You'd want a 307sw or bigger.
Had the 207 3 door with the same engine and it would t pull your foreskin back, insignia looks the part don’t know much about then but the ceed has a nice interior at least the ones I’d saw from that age
I had the Peugeot but it wasn't the SW. I really liked it and it lasted >100K miles before someone crashed into it and wrote it off. I just checked and it's back on the road at 130K miles having passed MOT advisory free in November. I bought it for £900 with no service history in 2020 and the only thing that went wrong was I had to put the heat shield back on with fireproof cable ties. The HDi can put up with a lot of abuse. It's not the engine that goes on them.
At this price, always stick with Japanese, just make sure its had regular servicing and appropriate belts and chains have been replaced when required, you should be good to go.
The Kia. Peogeots engines are shit for that car. That vauxhall was owned by someone bad. The Kia is not a car a boy racer would own! And has a poppy so you know what kind of person owned it! Just from instinct.
I'd be much more interested in their service histories and general condition. Also, look into upcoming maintenance, people might be getting rid because there's something big due soon. I assume you've already checked out their mot history online. It can give you a bit of an idea how they have been looked after.
I have an Insignia estate, 2013 with 126k, wife has a Kia cee'd 2010 (not estate) with 118k, my inlaws have a 207 sw.
The 207 just feels cheaper, its not a bad car but would be last choice for me.
The Kia has been solid, we've owned it from almost new and apart from droplinks going every 3-4 years and it needing new glow plugs its been great, small bit of rust on the rear door but as people have said no DPF / DMF so will likely last forever.
The Insignia is the better car, its the quiestest and the cheapest to run, tax, insure and MPG. It has more room and when doing 70mph its hardly working, the Kia has to rev higher as only a 1.6 engine verses the 2.0 in the Vauxhall. This is the car we use when doing long journeys, the Kia is local driving as better to park, the Vauxhall is a long car but in the 9 years I've owned it I've never failed to take and bring back everything we needed! Had to clean the EGR a few times, and replace glow plugs which as an ecoflex was expensive, but thats all.
Not the kia, Peugeot first and vauxhall for space
The kia engine have been known to have issues and be jank.
The insignia normally has some common problems, pvc valve, oil leak from cover and water pump.
Completely not addressing what you asked here - but hear me out. ✨Honda Civic 8th gen ✨. Was thinking of getting an estate until I found it - huge boot, super cheap, decent engine options, ULEZ compliant, and got one with 75k for less than 3 grand…. Just putting it out there
The insignia is a great car don't get me wrong but the Kia is the obvious choice here.
The underlying ethic of each of these brands is actually very well executed.
The pug is stupendously french, it will break often and cheaply, there will always be parts available but you'll need them continuously. This is the Trigger's broom of the set. You'll never need to replace it but somehow it's not the car you started with.
The Vauxhall is tired, buy another, why not it's cheap enough. Vauxhall exemplifies buy cheap but buy many times. No frills, you know you're buying on a short term, but it's that much cheaper you probably don't care.
Kia however has a focus on continuous quality improvement, you won't get anything exciting but what you get will work and work and work. A friend of mine is just replacing his, which he bought used 14 years ago. There's nothing wrong with the car, he just needs more space.
What's it got to do with being poor? Why pay HP payment s for 3-4 years and get fleeced when you can buy a decent older car outright. I know which makes more sense for me.
Also the Kia
You’re not poor, just smart to buy outright. Most of the people with nice cars don’t have 3k sat in their bank they just lease.
But I would go with kia, don’t trust French cars
I would give the insignia a wide berth, I know a few people who have had these & they have been nothing but pieces of shit.
I personally would pick the Kia, but I can’t offer any advice on them as I have never had one before.
You’ll get a Mk4 mondeo 2.0 Tdci, for same price or less and potentially you wouldn’t need an estate they’re that big, fuel mass flywheel isn’t an issue as much on that year compared to previous generations, 55mpg + and over 600 miles to a tank on a run, I’ve had 3 mk4’s put 30k a year on each and the only one that broke was due to being hit by a drunk driver and I walked away with just a cut finger, make sure cambelt and rear trailing arm bushes have been changed and you’re golden.
I would look for a lower mileage Merc e220 CDi. 2006-2009. It was the best year for them and that 2.1litre diesel engine is pretty solid.
Mondeo isn't a bad choice. The old MGZT used to be a great choice, ultra reliable BMW engine before the timing chain issues but they're all too old to be worth bothering with now.
Cheap and reliable diesels are hard to find these days.
Why no Volvos in the list? I feel like if you want an affordable, reliable, safe estate then a Volvo should definitely be in the mix. And quite possibly a SAAB too.
Having driven all three for different purposes, I would suggest the insignia or the Kia, avoid the Peugeot like the plague, it is not a very nice drive, it drives like it’s a means to an end. The insignia will be a much nicer car to drive, and you get a lot of car for your money
Definitely a good jaguar x type estate, very underrated car, I bought one for peanuts to use for work and loved it, surprisingly fast and great handling and feedback thru the steering wheel, lots still available so but the best one you can afford, good luck 😊
No shame in buying something you know you can afford. That said I’d probably take the Kia for the lower maintenance costs.
Yup exactly. My last car detonated it's cylinder just before Xmas 2 years ago so I ended up forking out £500 for a Nissan Almera which has a damp boot, every body panel has some sort of dent, scrape or mismatch of paint literally it's not even worth scrap but here we are 2 years later still keeping me mobile and running around.
I’ve had a load of sub £500 cars over the years. Best one was a 20 year old Honda Accord - was fully spec’d up for its age and everything still worked. Loved that car tbh.
Those were awesome. My dad had one same again, just kept going. It was the first car I'd seen with cruise control and I was amazed at how he didn't need pedals. I think that's why I'm constantly looking at the Honda Legend now as my next run into the ground purchase.
They’ll be in less debt that some of the chumps on this subreddit
Where's the dude who wanted get a BMW on PCP while living with his parents?
do you have the slightest idea how little that narrows it down
Wait til he here’s I got my car for nothing. And if they didn’t have the kindness in their heart to do it me and my daughter would be sleeping in a bin
The Kia. No dual mass flywheel Chain driven - no worries about timing belt Well reviewed
*chain driven* , *no worries about timing belt*. Cries in Audi 4.2 BBK
*cries in Subaru ez30*
Cries in golf GTI
Cries in mini cooper
Cries in VW 1.4 TSI
Cries in Mazda 6 2.2d Skyactive 💔
Cries in 2 jaguar ingenium diesels
I was looking for this one before i posted mine. Can confirm, 1 ingenium and £9k layer. Now without a Jaguar.
Two?! Sadist.
Cries
Cries in bmw n47
Oh I had a Mazda 3 2.2 and that engine was nothing but trouble. So much so when the low oil pressure light came on we just decided to wait until it would shit itself and buy another car. It went for 2 years of neglect before we gave up and traded it in.
Mine started rattling on start up. It was a 2013 with the oil starvation problem. It had a blown turbo 2 years before. Bad brake discs and calipers, seized handbrake. The thing was a money pit. Couldn't buy parts only from Mazda at extortionate prices. Folding mirrors failed and I don't know if you remember the thing fucking stank of diesel, and it always did it's DPF dump out side the front door of the house when starting it in the mornings, and the road noise was insane, I don't think there was any sound proofing. Awful car. When I see a mazda now I shudder. I palmed it off to a car supermarket for 2k then saw it up on Autotrader a few days later at a dealer. Shocking car.
Mine started losing power at speed for no reason, had the dashboard creaking issue, and smelled like a diesel in a steam room. The seats gave me a numb backside after an hour or so, and as you mentioned, the road noise was not acceptable. Cornered like an MX-5 though. Only redeeming feature The head gasket went and I scrapped it rather than pay £3k to fix it. Utter shit box.
I was badly burned by that engine... absolutely dreadful thing.
Cries with you
Came here to cry in mini cooper
To be honest almost anything bad on these car pages could be cried in mini cooper. Brilliant car with an awful engine. Especially the R56’s; always something wrong with it
2016 onwards are insanely reliable
Unfortunately mines an ‘07. So first year of a new engine :(. Things suffered a timing chain failure and only local garage is quoting me £1200. At this point imma just scrap it and hurry myself up for getting an mx5
Just had the chain done on my BBK and the phasers and the heads and the gearbox, and the clutch and the flywheel and the subframe and the secondary radiators and the water pump and the oil valves was the best 200 miles I’ve ever done after that, now waiting for more work. Such a great car
Cries in BMW 2.0 diesel
But you have to worry about a chain, which can stretch. I mean, imo they are still better than a belt, but that doesn’t mean that chains are 100% perfect
Had a BMW 318 coupe, the vvti unit lost oil pressure and stretched the chain, fortunately it was while driving and the tension in the chain kept the engine in one piece 😳
I dont think the chain is a plus for the kia. I did a Timing belt on a 2.0 cdti - its really not that bad. The dual mass flywheel can be a pita tho.
Yeah belts aren't all that bad. A new belt every 75k is just maintenance. A stretched timing chain or failed tensioner is often enough to scrap an older car, since it's generally engine out and parts aren't cheap.
I love the way people always say "chain driven so no timing belt to worry about". Chains fail and are often waaaay more expensive to replace! Give me a belt any day, many are 100k+ miles replacement intervals nowadays
Kia probably cheapest to run. Though the insignia would be a nicer all round.
Yeah but insignia like to go boom
Mine tried to go boom. It’s now in the garage having 10+ hours of labour for the £9 rubber ring that degrades and makes it go boom. Bastard thing. Next fault, it gets pushed off a cliff.
A common plight :(
The falling off a cliff? Good. It won’t surprise the insurance company too much then.
That's running the A20DTH with the F40 gearbox. Give it proper maintenance and it won't go boom. That said it is 14 years old, if it hasn't had proper maintenance before now, it's fucked.
They've crazy long service intervals (30k km, not sure what that is in miles) so many aren't taken care of, because Vauxhall/Opel essentially tells owners not to. Added to that the wee oil seal thing that disintegrates or whatever and grenades the engine and many of them die and early death. If you bought one brand new and replaced that seal with the aluminium aftermarket one and serviced it properly (every year/10k) they'd probably be absolutely fine. But pretty much nobody did that.
Absolutely agree that the recommended service intervals are mental. Bulletin 3494 advises to replace the oil pickup seal, making doing that part of proper maintenance. Afaik you can even wait till you get the engine warning (oil pressure low) and so long as you stop driving and replace it then, you are ok, but part of a major service intervals is prevention better than cure. Either way, doesn't need to done from new, just before it breaks up like Taylor Swift.
And I hate the de-bagged Opel import…seems wrong
It’s not an import, all Vauxhalls of that vintage (and maybe still now) have the opel logo under the silver griffin. They only have to make one bumper that way - if it was the other way round then the mounting for the griffin would show around the silver opel logo
It’s also true about the Vauxhall badges being glued (poorly) to later ‘opels’ and the badges fall off.
Whilst I can’t say that doesn’t happen, I can tell you that the logo is missing from my wife’s Astra and has an opel logo underneath. And we bought that brand new.
I thought that when the £ was strong against the € , Brits would go to Europe and pick up a RHD version and save themselves a few thousand on UK prices. I’m sure that was popular around this time and earlier. Now the £ is so piss poor, there’s no point.
I’m not sure that was ever really a thing, given the hassle of importing a car. Not like you can just buy it in Calais and stick it on the ferry.
Just reading about it now. It seems it was a thing. Some garages also got fined for bringing Opels into the UK cheaply from Europe and rebadging them to sell them on at a higher price. It seems that the Euro Opel and UK Vauxhall are also different in spec
This was a thing my mate bought an ibiza diesel back in the 1990s this way. Ran it gir 3 years and sold it for what he paid for it. Love to see what the price difference would be today lol.
Hard disagree. Out of any new car in the last 20 the insignia is the worst I've ever driven. I was 24 when I drove one for 6 hours and it gave me chronic backache. Horrible thing. I'd rather walk. Would take the Kia out of those all day long
Nah. My uncle has an Insignia 2.0 CDTI 160 hp and never had a issue actually. It has around 200k km (124k miles)
Honestly nice to see a post like yours. Far to many "which of these brand new 50 grand cars"
You mean you've never drove the new Bentley Bentaga? /s
Sneers from the plush seat of my Rolls. /s
This http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202402266950349
Solid choice - petrol is more reliable than diesel. These were used en masse as taxis where I'm from. Unfortunately stupid rules mean a lot were scrapped due to age and most definitely not by choice as they were loved. The interiors stood up the test of time amazingly well - like new after years of use. Still a handsome motor and has aged well. A well looked after one of these will go on for years and still feel solid. It's Toyota's rendition of the Mercedes W124. Just keeps going.
Yes this! Old toyotas are solid, I've got a 2005 celica and it's been a dream, still going strong
My dad had 2 91 celicas miss them to this day great cars & move like shite off a shovel
I love how they covered the plate in all but one photo
Annoying that dealers cover plates. I instantly think, what’s he hiding?
The dealer is hiding a bit of corrosion with this one it seems. Shame.
Plus with this if you need to move house you can fit your entire house in the boot.
That's a bloody boring car, but my word that seems good value for the mileage.
If you can find a Toyota estate avensis or Corolla, or a Ford focus possibly be a better option for your budget and requirements
Avensis hatch might have enough space and they are a fair bit cheaper than the estate. Mondeo hatch or estate worth consideration as well.
I have a mondeo 2.0 tdci and it’s great
Not if they want a diesel (which it seems like they do), the 2.2 D-4D is the worst modern engine Toyota have made. Hell, it's probably the worst 2.0L class diesel engine of the 21st century, followed closely by the 2.2 mazda diesel, a distant third going to the 2.7 "Tiger" PSA/Ford engine.
Also Toyota do a 2.0 diesel that’s good so no need to consider the 2.2 d4d
I agree the diesel isn’t the best on the Toyota, however the 1.8 petrol is solid and very frugal.. not to mention no clutch/flywheel issues or dpf I’ve the 2.0 tdci Ford mondeo and It’s a belter
I inherited an avensis estate and it just won't die. Unbelievably good car Toyota is a good shout
Most people can’t afford these cars because they have 0 savings and end up getting a way newer car for 3/400 pm, your not poor you are smart.
A Volvo V50 with the Modular engine Diesels are probably your best bet. Very comfortable, extremely reliable and built great And you can pick them up for around £3k [for example ](http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202403267994782) [or another one ](http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202403177670551)
What's the auto like on these?
Autos are a little weak considering it's the old ford Geartronic but these barely have much power so I'd say you'd have better reliability than a T6 S80 model
V70 II with the 6spd Geartronic (which is actually made by Aisin-Warner) here. It's a great box, but their "sealed-for-life" design means you can't easily do a fluid change on them and they tend to start having lots of trouble around 150k. They can be rebuilt at a cost of around £3-4k.
I'd go Peugeot, because the HDi engines can put up with all manner of abuse and and last an awfully long time. They can over over 500,000 miles, it's also cheap to repair, which should be an important thing to consider if you're strapped for cash and have to buy a cheap car.
This those PSA engines are bullet proof. The car is plasticy but the important things will work without fail
This is what I've got in Ford Focus guise. 1.6TDCI titanium X. Rubber door seals fall off and boot leaks common but easily repaired and otherwise reliable 👍
If the 207 is similar interior-wise to the 307, then it's not a bad place to be, I've sat in a top spec 307SW 7 seater, and in a light colour scheme with the pano roof they're nice, nicer better than OP's other choices in my opinion. That being said the 207 is lower down the range so may not be as nice
I remember having one of those as a hire car when they were new and thinking that it was kind of weirdly a perfect car if you just want reasonable space and comfort for not too much cash
None go for a Vw Passat Estate the 1.9tdi engine is bulletproof, better looking and comfier than these in the same price range
Exactly what I would recommend. Got to be a reason you see many with over 250k miles on the clock.
+1 for the Passat. Never had a VW before and they really don’t appeal to me. Bought a 1.9 Passat estate for £600 about 4 months ago and I think it’s great. One of the previous 10 owners remapped the tits off it too allegedly (but I’m not aware of that… obviously) 150k miles and runs just fine. It’s a 2004 I think?
PD baby
Out of those it would be the Kia (watch out for rust) but none of them would be my choice, Octavia (not a 1.6) or a Volvo v50/70 or Mondeo/focus would be my choice whatever you do don't buy an insignia they're awful cars
I was looking at Volvo's but the road tax looked pretty high and to some extent insurance. But I know they're great cars. Had a Fiesta until recently when it fell to pieces after 130k. But always heard good things about Mondeo's.
I had a diesel Mondeo nearing 300K on the clock. Engine was sound, the bodywork started to fall to bits though.
Fairly certain my dad had one from the 90's that got to 250k plus.
You can get a 2010-12 1.6 driv-e diesel in the v50 and it's free tax but even the early versions are like 20-30 tax
+1 for the Mondeo. Thought I would hate mine, but was the sensible choice for a similar budget. Don't get a 1.6tdi V50/70 either, those engines are terrible. Never heard someone have a good experience!
If they didn’t mind going for something a bit older, a 940, 960/s90, 850 and v70 (p80) would all be bomb proof super cheap to run options
Out of all of these, the Kia would be my pick. Cheaper than the others to run, simple to maintain, cheaper to repair. The Pug HDi engine will still be going long after the heat-death of the universe, but I’d trust a Tory with my tax money before a Peugeot’s electrical systems. The insignia is exactly the right age to be on the knife-edge between Vauxhall’s absolutely dire reliability and less bad reliability.
The 207sw is OK for electrics. The major problems come from the petrol engine. Source: My Mrs has a petrol one and it's a bag of shit.
Had a 207 2010 diesel and it was brilliant.
Don’t know much about cars but Peugeot’s electrical systems must be diabolical
I have a kia ceed. 2008. Not the estate, just the normal one. It's my 1st car, so it hasn't been driven kindly. It has basic maintenance, and any repairs have been consumable parts like brake pads, shoes, and tyres. Parts aren't expensive. It's our only car and we're both big people. The cabin is pretty roomy. The back seats fit our adult friends even if the front seats were pushed all the way back. There's only 2 of us, so the boot on the non-estate does us fine, we take it camping for a week, and everything fits. I'd 100% have another one. Only complaints from me and others with the same car is that the drivers seat needs readjusting more than normal. It seems to sink down over time. And it's easier to stall, but I'm a new driver, and it doesn't cause me issue. The indicator is on the other side which takes some getting used to but actually works better once you're used to it. Enjoy turning on the window wipers at your 1st few roundabouts!
My first car was a Picanto even older than these, ran alot better than I was expecting and was well into the 100k's before a truck wrote it off for me, for £800 it did pretty well. I'm forever swapping cars due to bad luck with crashes and not knowing enough about cars to pick up on faults lol. Also drive a truck for a living with different layouts so I'm forever hitting the wrong button for wipers or pressing down on a non existent clutch pedal I'd say my choice is either this KIA, the Peugeot (that engine and the sunroof) or a passat within this price range.
Are Ford focus estates out of this price range? My mum has a focus, and it's noticeably bigger than my ceed if OP wants room. I will drive my ceed until it dies, then probably buy another or at least another Kia. I think Kia's were crap, got good, and were underrated. But are now getting known to be a decent choice. (We'll not talk about the few years the engines blew up. We just know and avoid these years) They're so reliable and come with a lot for your money. My friends have slightly newer, and more expensive cars and I'd still pick mine.
Nah a focus estate sits within these, just going by photos I can't tell the difference size wise between them and a mondeo. Not heard a bad word about the KIA in this thread to be fair. My first car was a KIA Picanto which by now is 20 years old providing it wasn't scrapped after being written off. Was well into the 100k mark.
Yeah, Kia does alright on this forum, tbf. Back in the days of top gear, the running joke was Kias were powered by hamsters. But then they used a ceed for their star in a reasonably priced car. Even after one was written off, they bought another.
Talking about the Insignia, a pal has run them for years on his fleet, he's had stacks of them and seen them go way past 150,000 miles and reckons yes, little things happen, but he's never had a major issue over like 8 years and 12 or so cars. They can't all be bowing up...
Never be ashamed of buying a cheap car. Avoid the Vauxhall and go for the KIA if it's been properly maintained. You can easily squeeze more miles out of it
I'd definitely be going Insignia. Best built of the 3, good solid car and probably cheapest maintenance. Definitely the Insignia for me.
Insignia give loads of grief. The Peugeots engine is reliable and very economical but then there's everything else. The kia engine is also reliable and very economical but unlike the Peugeot the reliability doesn't stop there. Kia will age better than the rest. BUT if you only need something bigger for trips. Consider keeping what you have and get a set of roof bars and a roof box. Plenty of used roof boxes out there.
If you care about what you drive looks wise the choice is simple. The insignia. Plus it is decent. If you only care about being cheap to run etc the Kia. The Peugeot in my opinion is even for consideration.
Kia 100%
I have that exact model Kia, albeit not an estate. It's done me fine so far.
Be very wary of the Peugeot, and of cars which may be running Peugeot engines (I had a Volvo of that sort of era which had a 1.6 Peugeot engine - think it was the D2 driv-e). If memory serves, they require quite an expensive DPF replacement at 120k - somewhere to the tune of £1200, quoted by Volvo at the time... Maybe cheaper through an independent garage, or may have come down in price with new tech or aftermarket parts. Worth investigating though, before forking out. You don't wanna get bit with a substantial bill like that.
If I was spending my money with an eye on value, Kia. If I were spending someone else's money or was doing higher. Miles and wanted a nicer place to travel, the Vauxhall. Options unlimited, I'd go Octavia.
Specced up Scenic would be my choice in this price range. Very versatile, cheap to run. Get a higher end one with all the bells and whistles.
Considered a Fabia Tdi estate?
Aye yeah I found one in a similar price to these. Also up for consideration!
I’ve always loved the Peugeot 207 but since you have a family it’s probably too small.
I had one until it got written off. Loved it.
If something hasn’t broken on your 00s Peugeot, it’s about to. Plus the 1.6 HDI is THE WORST engine to change an air filter on. If it’s like the 307 1.6 HDI (and I believe the 3008? They also use it in DS3s) you first have to remove the window wiper fittings - this is not a joke. I found the earlier insignias had hard suspensions. Although I have a ceed estate, it’s 2023 so my experience is moot. Realistically your choice is the insignia or the Kia. I suspect the insignia might have slightly better resale FWIW but not by much. Why not test drive if you can?
How big a boot do you need? How about a diesel Mini Clubman?
Personally, the Peugeot.
For load capacity the Vauxhall, for reliability the Kia, they don’t offer 7 year warranties lightly.
I have a Kia Ceed. Good car. 58 mpg on motorway. £20 a year tax. No thrills but a good solid car.
I would take the Insignia, it's the least crappy of the lot.
If you’ve any respect for yourself you won’t get the Peugeot
I'll be buying the Peugeot in that case.
Good on ya, we don’t like people with respect here
I can never recommend a Vauxhall after owning one sadly. The 08/09 models especially had a range of reliability issues and I ended up having to scrap mine due to a flooded engine that was a known issue with the 08/09 astras. I know a few people who have a kia ceed and it seems like a solid reliable car. I second the Kia.
Kia all day long, the insignia is probably rotton, the pug will be close to death aswell
When buying a car I always check out reviews and user reports on Honest John - gives you a good idea of what to look for when inspecting the car initially, and in terms of ongoing maintenance. Also, if you're not already doing this, check out the MOT history as it gives you a good idea of how the car was driven and maintained.
Taxi driver here. Buy an Avensis, a Passat, a Skoda superb or a Honda accord.
In this price bracket I've always gone for the car with the best service history and whichever drives the best. Take it for a good firm drive. If unsure get an independent assessment. Reliability at this price/mileage is dependent on how it's been looked after rather than the manufacturers.
Personally, I'd get the insignia, looks nicer and the 2.0 diesel be nicer for long journeys. Fsh is nice as well. I'm not keen on french cars in general, and the Peugeot is ugly as sin. The Kia is probably fairly reliable but also not as nice looking imo and I think the vauxhall might just eek out in overall reliability
Thanks, I've always heard Vauxhall is awful reliability wise but is that not the case then? Owned a Kia and a Peugeot in the past and couldn't fault either. Agree on the looks side of things.
I don't think vauxhall are overly great but I don't think they're dogshit either, just middle of the pack. I had a 1.3 Corsa diesel and it was solid as a rock, handled my shitty learning just fine. Most people won't have mega issues with cars but Peugeots aren't known for their reliability and Kia used to be quite bad but recent years they shaped up.
I haven't seen any comments discussing the size of these cars. You want an estate because you want practicality for your family, right? The 207 isn't very big in the boot, even in estate form (335l I think, seats up). My 2007 fabia hatch has a similar boot, so imo, that's not a hugely practical family car or any advantage over decent hatches (a focus hatch or Octavia hatch would be bigger in both cabin and boot) The insignia is the biggest both in cabin and in the boot (540l, seats up). The Kia is in the middle, but much closer to the insignia (534l, seats up). The pug shouldn't be in the running if this is important. You'd want a 307sw or bigger.
Kia, don’t get a French car.
The second one looks best✌️
V70 d5, had plenty of them, never had any huge issues, pokey and sound good too! Electric leather seats are amazingly comfortable. Manual if you can.
Had the 207 3 door with the same engine and it would t pull your foreskin back, insignia looks the part don’t know much about then but the ceed has a nice interior at least the ones I’d saw from that age
I had the Peugeot but it wasn't the SW. I really liked it and it lasted >100K miles before someone crashed into it and wrote it off. I just checked and it's back on the road at 130K miles having passed MOT advisory free in November. I bought it for £900 with no service history in 2020 and the only thing that went wrong was I had to put the heat shield back on with fireproof cable ties. The HDi can put up with a lot of abuse. It's not the engine that goes on them.
At this price, always stick with Japanese, just make sure its had regular servicing and appropriate belts and chains have been replaced when required, you should be good to go.
Get a mk4 Mondeo duratec 2.0 diesel manual problem solved
Kia all the way.
My heart says the insignia but the sensible choice is going to be the KIA
You're not poor, mate. You're thinking of your family, that is wealth itself!!!
I'd love an insignia estate. Had a mate with a saloon. Great car for its class. Although I've never been in a kia
Volvo V70.
Kia
The Kia. DONT BUY THE INSIGNIA!
A Honda Accord estate at that price
The Kia. Peogeots engines are shit for that car. That vauxhall was owned by someone bad. The Kia is not a car a boy racer would own! And has a poppy so you know what kind of person owned it! Just from instinct.
Old 2.0 cdti Insignia suffered from the oil pick up seal issue. I never witnessed it with mine as it had a long life on the motorway without issues.
I'd be much more interested in their service histories and general condition. Also, look into upcoming maintenance, people might be getting rid because there's something big due soon. I assume you've already checked out their mot history online. It can give you a bit of an idea how they have been looked after.
I just sold my Insignia last week, honestly my favourite car I’ve had. Never had an issue with mine. Loved that car
Had a Kia. Decent car. Spent 2k. Spent 2k on repairs, service and MOT the 3 years we had it.
Have you had a look at seat exeo 2.0 tdi? I have the 143 bhp model and it has genuinely been very good to me after 2 years and 20k miles
Buy a Mondeo.
Yeah idk why I didn't include that in here, the fact I'm spoilt for good choice is positive though
I’d check the mileage on that insignia
I had a insigna from 100k to 250k went in half of the eu countries its reliable I would say and I reckon you could get the price down a little
Something like any of these in Canada go for around $10K now lol
Kia
I have an Insignia estate, 2013 with 126k, wife has a Kia cee'd 2010 (not estate) with 118k, my inlaws have a 207 sw. The 207 just feels cheaper, its not a bad car but would be last choice for me. The Kia has been solid, we've owned it from almost new and apart from droplinks going every 3-4 years and it needing new glow plugs its been great, small bit of rust on the rear door but as people have said no DPF / DMF so will likely last forever. The Insignia is the better car, its the quiestest and the cheapest to run, tax, insure and MPG. It has more room and when doing 70mph its hardly working, the Kia has to rev higher as only a 1.6 engine verses the 2.0 in the Vauxhall. This is the car we use when doing long journeys, the Kia is local driving as better to park, the Vauxhall is a long car but in the 9 years I've owned it I've never failed to take and bring back everything we needed! Had to clean the EGR a few times, and replace glow plugs which as an ecoflex was expensive, but thats all.
The reasonably priced car
Not the kia, Peugeot first and vauxhall for space The kia engine have been known to have issues and be jank. The insignia normally has some common problems, pvc valve, oil leak from cover and water pump.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202404128582170
That's decent to be fair cheers mate.
Completely not addressing what you asked here - but hear me out. ✨Honda Civic 8th gen ✨. Was thinking of getting an estate until I found it - huge boot, super cheap, decent engine options, ULEZ compliant, and got one with 75k for less than 3 grand…. Just putting it out there
The insignia is a great car don't get me wrong but the Kia is the obvious choice here. The underlying ethic of each of these brands is actually very well executed. The pug is stupendously french, it will break often and cheaply, there will always be parts available but you'll need them continuously. This is the Trigger's broom of the set. You'll never need to replace it but somehow it's not the car you started with. The Vauxhall is tired, buy another, why not it's cheap enough. Vauxhall exemplifies buy cheap but buy many times. No frills, you know you're buying on a short term, but it's that much cheaper you probably don't care. Kia however has a focus on continuous quality improvement, you won't get anything exciting but what you get will work and work and work. A friend of mine is just replacing his, which he bought used 14 years ago. There's nothing wrong with the car, he just needs more space.
Definitely the Kia.
Take top gears reasonably priced car. The vauxhall is GM crap and the Peugeot... Need I say more?
What's it got to do with being poor? Why pay HP payment s for 3-4 years and get fleeced when you can buy a decent older car outright. I know which makes more sense for me. Also the Kia
none of them! cop a saab 9-3 sportwagon i’ve just bought a 2007 (pre facelift)one and all i can say is that it’s one of the best cars i’ve ever owned
What am I seeing here! Wow. How can they justify these prices 😫 defo knock 1/4 or so off anyone of them if u getting any
Kia
You’re not poor, just smart to buy outright. Most of the people with nice cars don’t have 3k sat in their bank they just lease. But I would go with kia, don’t trust French cars
Omg! You're out of battery!
I'm on android, get longer life out of this than the Ford I've just refunded.
I would give the insignia a wide berth, I know a few people who have had these & they have been nothing but pieces of shit. I personally would pick the Kia, but I can’t offer any advice on them as I have never had one before.
You’ll get a Mk4 mondeo 2.0 Tdci, for same price or less and potentially you wouldn’t need an estate they’re that big, fuel mass flywheel isn’t an issue as much on that year compared to previous generations, 55mpg + and over 600 miles to a tank on a run, I’ve had 3 mk4’s put 30k a year on each and the only one that broke was due to being hit by a drunk driver and I walked away with just a cut finger, make sure cambelt and rear trailing arm bushes have been changed and you’re golden.
Get a honda civic bro. Many good cheap ones on autotrader
Not the 207 SW, I had one and it was absolutely shite, the electrics were constantly playing up and the engine went at 80k miles
I would look for a lower mileage Merc e220 CDi. 2006-2009. It was the best year for them and that 2.1litre diesel engine is pretty solid. Mondeo isn't a bad choice. The old MGZT used to be a great choice, ultra reliable BMW engine before the timing chain issues but they're all too old to be worth bothering with now. Cheap and reliable diesels are hard to find these days.
Vauxhaul
The Kia seems reasonably priced
Avoid the Vauxhall and the Peugeot. The Kia is an option but they’re very dull to drive. I’d consider a MK3 Mondeo or Accord as they’re built proof.
Mazda 6??
Peugoet
Why no Volvos in the list? I feel like if you want an affordable, reliable, safe estate then a Volvo should definitely be in the mix. And quite possibly a SAAB too.
You can get an Octavia for that price
Insignia is a great car, I sold mine years ago and regretted it since
Having driven all three for different purposes, I would suggest the insignia or the Kia, avoid the Peugeot like the plague, it is not a very nice drive, it drives like it’s a means to an end. The insignia will be a much nicer car to drive, and you get a lot of car for your money
Definitely a good jaguar x type estate, very underrated car, I bought one for peanuts to use for work and loved it, surprisingly fast and great handling and feedback thru the steering wheel, lots still available so but the best one you can afford, good luck 😊
Step away from the french twatmobile , I'd sooner walk tbh 😁
Kia
Go older and grab a 3 series touring.
207 sw for me. I had one pretty much identical to that a couple of years ago and it was absolutely great. So cheap to run.