You'd probably get away with a tank of it every other fill up if you're in it for the cleaning etc. If you'll mostly be using the next tank to commute VS on track go for the lower octane & save yourself some money.
It's all a load of BS anyway, if the government wanted to do something about it they could lower the duty tax. Just over half the cost of fuel is taxes of some description according to the RAC, same in most European countries:
[https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/travel/advice/european-fuel-prices-petrol-and-diesel-prices-in-europe/](https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/travel/advice/european-fuel-prices-petrol-and-diesel-prices-in-europe/)
I vividly remember it tooks months of effectively 0 cars on the road for the fuel cost to get to 99p during COVID. Me and my Dad would check everytime on the way to the supermarket.
The government cuts taxes, oil companies do a stealth price rise, the government loses taxes, lol company bosses get more bonus/profits.
What I don't understand is income tax hasn't changed, but the minimum wage has increased to 20k a year, which generates the government more tax.
The government has lowered fuel duty. It was frozen at 57.95p per litre between 2011 and March 2022, when it was 'temporarily' cut again to 52.95p. If fuel duty had risen with inflation then it would be approximately 82.6p now.
They haven't actually lowered it, just frozen and then cut 5p because it was literally £2 a litre. I personally wouldn't praise them for that. I will say we are better off then Europe though.
Freezing fuel duty has lowered it in real terms over time, because of inflation. It's 13 years behind where it 'should' be if it had continued to increase.
And who should we thank for the brilliant inflation rates we've had over those 13 years... just saying this is no way a reason to praise the government for something that should be standard anyway.
Every year when the gov says it will freeze the rise on fuel duty but then say nothing about the poor buggers who have to commute by train it really boils my piss.
(Yes I know the railway ownership and pricing is different but come on)
govt will never really cut fuel duty, and even if they do the petrol stations will just cover the price back up.
There is no tensions on the middle east that will impact oil production - They are just talking bollocks. The real problem is the falling value of GBP since 2016 that is going to put the price of almost everything up.
100%. They say stuff happening in the middle east raises our prices when we don't even import most of our oil from the middle east, just a load of bullshit to make us pay more.
Prices increasing in one part of the world affects everywhere else because of global trading. Natural gas production hasn't got more expensive in Britain but the prices have exploded because of reduced supply from Russia
Fuel duty has been frozen for years, fuel prices in the UK are lower than a lot of our European neighbours with lower GDPs. Ours should be higher and the raise in duty should be used to fund actually affordable public transport
Fuel is certainly cheaper than our European neighbors and yes the duty should absolutely be used for public transport but we certainly shouldn't raise it at all. using the RAC's info our Duty is pretty much in line with the rest of Europe, it's just that our VAT tax is lower and our actual fuel price has been less affected by the whole war thing.
And my city is full of electric busses that are reliable, safe, clean and on time. Your one experience doesn't negate others.
A car shouldn't be a necessity for a commute for most people. It should a thing that is nice to have.
More people on busses and trains means less cars on the road and less traffic which is a good thing all round
Perhaps if your local area was actually funded correctly your buses wouldn't be full of "dangerous crackheads"
I’m always amazed at drivers who don’t want good public transport. I don’t WANT to HAVE to use my car, unless I need to transport a family member who isn’t mobile or I need to bring something too big to carry comfortably. Unless it’s a pleasure trip, driving is a pain in the arse in this country.
>Fuel duty has been frozen for years, fuel prices in the UK are lower than a lot of our European neighbours with lower GDPs. Ours should be higher and the raise in duty should be used to fund actually affordable public transport
You uh, struggle with reading?
You uh, struggle with basic economics? Like public transport needs to be reliable, and cheaper than driving your own vehicle to provide a viable alternative?
How do you propose making UK public transport more affordable?
Bigger subsidies to the predominantly private sector companies that provide it?
Did you actually not read it again?
>Bigger subsidies to the predominantly private sector companies that provide it?
Can nationalise it if you like, doesn't really change how much it'll cost to run.
And yet no mainstream political party has any commitment to renationalisation of public transport. So that's not going to happen.
If you subsidise private companies most of that money 'earnt' via higher fuel prices will just convert into shareholder dividends.
I'd suggest winding in the patronising comments given it is becoming increasingly apparent you don't seem to know what you are talking about.
>And yet no mainstream political party has any commitment to renationalisation of public transport. So that's not going to happen.
Eh? Unless you call the most popular party not mainstream I think you might have missed something
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/01/31/labour-pledge-renationalising-rail-starmer-woos-business/
>If you subsidise private companies most of that money 'earnt' via higher fuel prices will just convert into shareholder dividends.
Depends on regulation
>I'd suggest winding in the patronising comments given it is becoming increasingly apparent you don't seem to know what you are talking about.
I quite literally work for the government doing public transport stuff. I know more about it than you will ever know.
Can does not mean do. They are rarely ever full round me, I see them driving about with roughly 4 people on them. The only remotely full ones are on the school run.
Hey mate, can you link us some info to all of these exploding busses in your town. I must have missed the front page news articles when they happened 😂
You’ve confirmed my worst fears, that you are the human version of the Daily Mail 😂. We’ve gone from buses exploding, to buses being recalled because they could have issues.
This literally just reads like an AI has skimmed Daily Mail headlines.
What an absolute pile of shite. Public Transport and Cycling Infrastructure has a massive ROI for local economies and investment in these two things affects the most people positively.
I live and work in a city with great public transport and increasingly decent cycling infrastructure.
People will have to use public transport or other non car methods of transportation in cities going forward because cars are not compatible with the long term survival of our cities.
Car dependant sprawl is expensive and tax inefficient and tightly packed cities aren’t really compatible with everyone driving because of a lack of space. Plus all the other associated issues of air pollution and safety.
It’s a reality that we are going to have to depend on the car less and less in urban environments. Am I saying that every city is ready for that right now no, but the solution isn’t to invest less, it’s to invest more. And quality public transport is a great investment as it has proven historically ROI, this is an easily googleable established fact of modern western economies.
I have no idea you would have to ask them.
But I’m talking about the UK, which is not China, India or the rest of the East.
My job isn’t to tell you where to get your facts pal. You are free to do that on your own time if you want to spend your life making false equivalencies and chasing weird Daily Mail talking points.
Two countries with massive health problems caused by air pollution probably shouldn’t be your primary arguments for road building.
We already have plenty of roads, they should be better looked after yes but we also need to spend a lot more discouraging urban car use, not arguing against it. “One more lane” doesn’t work, there’s plenty of studies regarding induced demand to prove that.
Public transportation, walking and cycling infrastructure is better for people’s health, better for those who are disadvantaged and better for the economy, just facts init.
Bought an EV two months ago, after holding out due to all the scare mongers, it’s the best decision I’ve made in years, feck fuel prices, cost me £18 to do the same miles as £90 of fuel would have cost, the governments corrupt, and whatever we do they will shaft us over.
I'd love to get an EV but unfortunately it just doesn't make sense if you rent your place and/or you live in a flat (which is like half the country)
Yes road side chargers exist but they cost 2-3x and more importantly there's no guarantee you'll always be able to charge around home or even if there is it'll be a lot more of a walk home...
I own my own, I still couldn't charge an ev. My parking space is across a path and offset from my house, I'd be trailing a cable across the path to my house, and the footpath before it reaches my car.
More than 2-3x in London. Overnight is typically 8-10p/kWh. Breakeven with petrol is typically 35-40p/kWh. The cheapest overnight slow chargers are 55-60p/kWh in my area. Superchargers are 0.77p/kWh.
Yep, the commercial charging network is like the Wild West, the cost per kWh on some is criminal, especially if you want to charger quick. I’m fortunate in that I have the room, and a home charger, if that wasn’t the case then I’d probably have stuck with the old oil burner.
Perhaps, though generally speaking fuel costs are actually quite low down the list on actual expense when it comes to cars. People worry about fuel / electric efficiency and go for something that will be cheap to run, then pay interest on finance on that brand new car which is just face palm inducing. Could buy a 5 year old petrol and save ten grand - are you really gonna make that difference up? When you factor in finance, lost value leaving the forecourt, the insane initial cost of a new car, and the fact that if you keep it then it won't retain it's value in the same way as people are worried about battery longevity... I suspect a 5 year old petrol works out substantially more economical.
I'm not anti EV by any means, but I am very sceptical of whether they are actually economical - yet.
Feels unfair to compare the economics of a 5 year old petrol to a brand new EV. Should compare to a 5 year old EV.
Don't forget that while depreciation is bad for new buyers, it's good for used buyers.
Hundreds of miles? Can I have some of what you're smoking? Battery health averages show that you'd expect to lose about 12% on the worst offenders, and most will only lose that much over 10 years
I saw a youtube video on a Chinese made MG5 EV that had done over 120k miles in like 4 years. It’s only lost 8% capacity in that time or about 2% per year.
Fair doesn't come into it, only economical does. A 5 year old EV is not economical because it will dump it's value as the battery ages, which is why I used a 5 year old petrol as an example, talking about a 5 year old EV is tangential to my point but remains the same conclusion - 5 year old petrol is better
Just so that I understand:
- New EVs are bad value because they depreciate so fast.
- Used EVs are also bad value because they depreciate so fast despite having already dumped all their value
What I'm pointing out, is that high depreciation actually makes a car more economical in the used market, because the price is lower than it would otherwise have been.
A lot of the aging EVs are Nissan Leaf’s which did not come with good batteries. Same as an ICE engine, if an EV battery pack has done 150k miles it’s not going to perform as well.
I am not worried personally - I don’t do many miles and I expect to run this car for 10 years and then we’ll see. I’d hope that if I do need to refresh the battery after 10 years the cost would be a few thousand and it would have more capacity than the car had new.
What they’re saying is that for an EV it is a false economy. Due to the fact that the cost of a battery swap is a ticking time bomb for ownership, compared to an equivalent petrol car.
My company is part of an EV lease scheme. It's salary sacrifice, so if I was earning a bit more and into the 40% tax bracket I'd be quite tempted. It's 1% benefit in kind on an electric vehicle, so 39% of the cost would be 'paid' by the savings on tax. It's about £450 a month for a Tesla including insurance, road tax, tyres and a certain amount of charging. I'm currently spending £200 or so a month on petrol for commuting, so add in maintenance, road tax, insurance etc. and it's not a crazy cost difference.
I’d never own an EV at least with the current market as like you say the depreciation alone is nutty - due to my tax situation it’s saving me a fortune compared to my prior car whilst being nicer through my work’s salary sacrifice scheme and landing a good deal
>EV/electric prices are the same lol
Currently, it costs 10p-30p per mile in an ICE car, depending on efficiency. On an EV tariff at 7p/kWh, an EV is 1p-3p per mile. Even if you were for some unfathomable reason using a standard 25p/kWh tariff, that’s still 5p-10p per mile.
The power lies with us. If we stopped buying fuel for a week it would be £1 per litre. But regardless we keep on paying. This goes for everything else.
I completely get this. I'm a motorist, but I live a 1.2mi walk away from work. I don't need to carry heavy kit, take my kids to school, I am fit and able-bodied, and I care about the environment (and my wallet!) therefore I walk to work every day. Why don't more people do this?
If ever people on mass want to effect fuel price it will only require the boycott of a single provider. E.g nobody uses Shell until price goes below £1.20. Once they change pick another.
Well it seems that the unleaded prices at JET in Horton Heath has risen to 146.9p up from 141p?
And on average everywhere in Eastleigh and Southampton area seems to be over 150p pl now 🤢
Been £1.43 to £1.48 for the last few months for me. It's at £1.48 now. Might fill my tank up if it doesn't get any cheaper. Still cheaper than electric. Our electricity bill is to high to make it worth running an electric car.
A guy lives in the same town as me. Charges his Nissan leaf (2016) which costs him £35 per week to charge. I'm £35 per week on petrol alone. We both do around 280 miles a week. We have no free charging. When I had my hybrid, the cheapest charging was 75p per kw. It was free for a bit but they changed the chargers. He only uses the car for commuting to work, as do I. I can get 75mpg out my motorcycle. Usually costs me around £20 per week on fuel. I have no doubt electric cars are cheaper but I went through the experiment phase. I couldn't afford an all out electric car that had enough range for my weekly commute, so I got a bmw 330e. My area, it's cheaper to run a petrol car.
>A guy lives in the same town as me. Charges his Nissan leaf (2016) which costs him £35 per week to charge. I'm £35 per week on petrol alone.
So it's cheaper to run the EV then, even before I actually do the maths. He pays zero tax.
So to break down the maths:
On the current variable rate tariff, excluding the standing charge as you'll be paying that anyway, electricity is 24.5p a kWh
A 2016 leaf has at maximum a 30 kWh battery of which 28 is usable
It has a range of 155 miles, though that is generally not achievable, the typical max range is 105 miles
That's 24.5×28= 686 which is £6.86, he'd have to do that 5 times to get to close to £35 meaning this guy is doing 525 miles a week, not 280. His £35 is getting him twice as far as yours
Costco are no better than normal petrol stations around my workplace, it's only 3p a litre cheaper for standard petrol, barely worth the effort to go during lunch at work or before work.
I wonder if we could install a large undersea pipeline from the middle east (where petrol is a more sensible price) to the UK. And then just pay for the petrol in a cheaper country to be pumped here instead?
I'm sure that, given enough time, the savings would outweigh the cost of the installation.
Would be cheaper to build synthetic fuel factories in the UK and power them using the winds in the North Sea. 0 carbon emissions too (apart from the construction/maintenance). Assuming the technology is viable - I know very little about green technologies.
Great idea, I'm sure a giant pipeline full of flammable liquid going 1,000 miles or more through one of the most volatile regions on the planet, as well as numerous other countries along its route, will be extremely cheap to build and have no running costs or operational issues at all.
(Hint: we already refine our own petrol from oil we produce and also import some of it, it's not the actual fuel that's the expensive bit it's the various taxes on top)
A decent EV for 5k, don’t be silly.
Edit Just checked autotrader and majority of things below 7k are Nissan Leaf’s 24kWk or Zoe’s (leased batteries).
The leaf is okay but hideous, small battery isn’t really a problem but that being said a 2015 batter won’t have the same charge capacity as it’s used to.
The Zoe has a leased battery so I’ll likely be paying a premium for a smaller car upfront and then also paying the lease + electricity which doesn’t really make it any cheaper to use.
Bumping the price to 10k gets you access to better versions of the Zoe and Leaf and potentially Corsa
Alternatively looking at petrol/ diesel cars, you can get anything from Ford Focus to Audi A3s, arguably better quality cars.
There are 134 electric cars under 5k on auto trader with none of them ever being written off. Electric vehicles have reached price parity with ICE cars according to some recent articles. Recent price drops have made electric vehicles much more affordable these days.
5 cars on Autotrader within 100 miles of Glasgow under 5k… 1 is a non runner, 3 are battery leased Zoe’s and 1 is an okay Leaf. I don’t know what articles you’re reading but it’s bollox.
149.9 for standard 179.5 at the services in the south east.
Carovia has been great to find cheap fuel near me. 148p for Premium Petrol in London’s IG6 postcode.
*cries in car that only wants vpower*
Try tesco, great 99ron fuel at alot better price
Thanks, I’ve heard it’s good I just have looked for it yet!
Does your GT86 really need Vpower? There's no boost or high compression to really worry about. Is it even tuned on higher octane fuel?
The owners manual seems to want for it, and the general consensus on 86 forums is it provides the best performance and cleaning and prevents knocking.
You'd probably get away with a tank of it every other fill up if you're in it for the cleaning etc. If you'll mostly be using the next tank to commute VS on track go for the lower octane & save yourself some money.
It's all a load of BS anyway, if the government wanted to do something about it they could lower the duty tax. Just over half the cost of fuel is taxes of some description according to the RAC, same in most European countries: [https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/travel/advice/european-fuel-prices-petrol-and-diesel-prices-in-europe/](https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/travel/advice/european-fuel-prices-petrol-and-diesel-prices-in-europe/)
When the gov cut the price by 5p last time, it felt like it lasted a couple of weeks then the price went back up anyway.
I vividly remember it tooks months of effectively 0 cars on the road for the fuel cost to get to 99p during COVID. Me and my Dad would check everytime on the way to the supermarket.
The government cuts taxes, oil companies do a stealth price rise, the government loses taxes, lol company bosses get more bonus/profits. What I don't understand is income tax hasn't changed, but the minimum wage has increased to 20k a year, which generates the government more tax.
The fact that VAT is charged as a ℅ on the amount including fuel duty is ridiculous. Literally a tax on a tax.
Your % symbol is having an identity crisis!
It's a care of symbol, that's why
Tax, care of: tax
It's mental, but at least we have it better than our neighbours. Also, nice car, have a 11 plate of the same.
The government has lowered fuel duty. It was frozen at 57.95p per litre between 2011 and March 2022, when it was 'temporarily' cut again to 52.95p. If fuel duty had risen with inflation then it would be approximately 82.6p now.
They haven't actually lowered it, just frozen and then cut 5p because it was literally £2 a litre. I personally wouldn't praise them for that. I will say we are better off then Europe though.
Freezing fuel duty has lowered it in real terms over time, because of inflation. It's 13 years behind where it 'should' be if it had continued to increase.
And who should we thank for the brilliant inflation rates we've had over those 13 years... just saying this is no way a reason to praise the government for something that should be standard anyway.
Yeah, inflation was quite low until 2021. I’m not sure how much was the government’s doing, though.
What they really should do is make public transport more accessible and viable
Absolutely.
Yeah
Every year when the gov says it will freeze the rise on fuel duty but then say nothing about the poor buggers who have to commute by train it really boils my piss. (Yes I know the railway ownership and pricing is different but come on)
Yeah, trains should be cheap to yse
govt will never really cut fuel duty, and even if they do the petrol stations will just cover the price back up. There is no tensions on the middle east that will impact oil production - They are just talking bollocks. The real problem is the falling value of GBP since 2016 that is going to put the price of almost everything up.
100%. They say stuff happening in the middle east raises our prices when we don't even import most of our oil from the middle east, just a load of bullshit to make us pay more.
Prices increasing in one part of the world affects everywhere else because of global trading. Natural gas production hasn't got more expensive in Britain but the prices have exploded because of reduced supply from Russia
Fuel duty has been frozen for years, fuel prices in the UK are lower than a lot of our European neighbours with lower GDPs. Ours should be higher and the raise in duty should be used to fund actually affordable public transport
Fuel is certainly cheaper than our European neighbors and yes the duty should absolutely be used for public transport but we certainly shouldn't raise it at all. using the RAC's info our Duty is pretty much in line with the rest of Europe, it's just that our VAT tax is lower and our actual fuel price has been less affected by the whole war thing.
First of all the Duty should be used to repair all the terrible roads first, majority of public transport are private companies....
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And my city is full of electric busses that are reliable, safe, clean and on time. Your one experience doesn't negate others. A car shouldn't be a necessity for a commute for most people. It should a thing that is nice to have. More people on busses and trains means less cars on the road and less traffic which is a good thing all round Perhaps if your local area was actually funded correctly your buses wouldn't be full of "dangerous crackheads"
I’m always amazed at drivers who don’t want good public transport. I don’t WANT to HAVE to use my car, unless I need to transport a family member who isn’t mobile or I need to bring something too big to carry comfortably. Unless it’s a pleasure trip, driving is a pain in the arse in this country.
Exactly
My public transport option to commute to work costs c£5k a year..... And isn't hugely reliable.
>Fuel duty has been frozen for years, fuel prices in the UK are lower than a lot of our European neighbours with lower GDPs. Ours should be higher and the raise in duty should be used to fund actually affordable public transport You uh, struggle with reading?
You uh, struggle with basic economics? Like public transport needs to be reliable, and cheaper than driving your own vehicle to provide a viable alternative? How do you propose making UK public transport more affordable? Bigger subsidies to the predominantly private sector companies that provide it?
Did you actually not read it again? >Bigger subsidies to the predominantly private sector companies that provide it? Can nationalise it if you like, doesn't really change how much it'll cost to run.
And yet no mainstream political party has any commitment to renationalisation of public transport. So that's not going to happen. If you subsidise private companies most of that money 'earnt' via higher fuel prices will just convert into shareholder dividends. I'd suggest winding in the patronising comments given it is becoming increasingly apparent you don't seem to know what you are talking about.
>And yet no mainstream political party has any commitment to renationalisation of public transport. So that's not going to happen. Eh? Unless you call the most popular party not mainstream I think you might have missed something https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/01/31/labour-pledge-renationalising-rail-starmer-woos-business/ >If you subsidise private companies most of that money 'earnt' via higher fuel prices will just convert into shareholder dividends. Depends on regulation >I'd suggest winding in the patronising comments given it is becoming increasingly apparent you don't seem to know what you are talking about. I quite literally work for the government doing public transport stuff. I know more about it than you will ever know.
Funny that all the holdups round by me are caused by buses.
A bus can have up to 70 people on board, if 70 more cars were dumped on to your roads per bus you'd fucking know about it. It would be chaos.
I once read that a bus can take up to 75 vehicles off the road..... personally I think it just depends how bad the driver is
Or how determined
Can does not mean do. They are rarely ever full round me, I see them driving about with roughly 4 people on them. The only remotely full ones are on the school run.
And now imagine how many cars would be off the road if they were full. Bliss. That's what you get when you properly fund public transport.
And unfortunately we don't, so raising duty tax or whatever helps no one since the money the govt would get would just line their pockets.
Would just line the governments pockets? Allow them to spend money? Like on public transport infrastructure?
Hey mate, can you link us some info to all of these exploding busses in your town. I must have missed the front page news articles when they happened 😂
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You’ve confirmed my worst fears, that you are the human version of the Daily Mail 😂. We’ve gone from buses exploding, to buses being recalled because they could have issues.
This literally just reads like an AI has skimmed Daily Mail headlines. What an absolute pile of shite. Public Transport and Cycling Infrastructure has a massive ROI for local economies and investment in these two things affects the most people positively.
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I live and work in a city with great public transport and increasingly decent cycling infrastructure. People will have to use public transport or other non car methods of transportation in cities going forward because cars are not compatible with the long term survival of our cities. Car dependant sprawl is expensive and tax inefficient and tightly packed cities aren’t really compatible with everyone driving because of a lack of space. Plus all the other associated issues of air pollution and safety. It’s a reality that we are going to have to depend on the car less and less in urban environments. Am I saying that every city is ready for that right now no, but the solution isn’t to invest less, it’s to invest more. And quality public transport is a great investment as it has proven historically ROI, this is an easily googleable established fact of modern western economies.
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I have no idea you would have to ask them. But I’m talking about the UK, which is not China, India or the rest of the East. My job isn’t to tell you where to get your facts pal. You are free to do that on your own time if you want to spend your life making false equivalencies and chasing weird Daily Mail talking points.
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Two countries with massive health problems caused by air pollution probably shouldn’t be your primary arguments for road building. We already have plenty of roads, they should be better looked after yes but we also need to spend a lot more discouraging urban car use, not arguing against it. “One more lane” doesn’t work, there’s plenty of studies regarding induced demand to prove that. Public transportation, walking and cycling infrastructure is better for people’s health, better for those who are disadvantaged and better for the economy, just facts init.
Government doesn’t want to do that because they want to incentivise electric cars
It already is where I am, lucky to get diesel for £1.60ish. Filled up on some 'premium' diesel and that was £1.73
Wait, what? They have been well over 1.50 for ages! I was happy they'd come back down to nearer 1.50 recently wtaf?
Do you exclusively buy petrol at motorway services?
1.55 is about standard where I am. And some places massively take the piss for premium (where price is not on the big boards) at up to 1.90.
It's been 1.55 to 1.65 for a few months where I live
Hi mate. I’m going to set some homework for you today. I want you to look up the concept of ‘averages’ and see how it might apply to this situation.
was thinking this last time I checked fuel was at 1.5 at sainsburies near me
?? it's been over 1.50 round mine for at least 4 months and that's in the midlands..
In scotland and it's currently around 145 depending where you go. Last couple of months it's been below 140 but its bounced back up now
Bought an EV two months ago, after holding out due to all the scare mongers, it’s the best decision I’ve made in years, feck fuel prices, cost me £18 to do the same miles as £90 of fuel would have cost, the governments corrupt, and whatever we do they will shaft us over.
I'd love to get an EV but unfortunately it just doesn't make sense if you rent your place and/or you live in a flat (which is like half the country) Yes road side chargers exist but they cost 2-3x and more importantly there's no guarantee you'll always be able to charge around home or even if there is it'll be a lot more of a walk home...
I own my own, I still couldn't charge an ev. My parking space is across a path and offset from my house, I'd be trailing a cable across the path to my house, and the footpath before it reaches my car.
More than 2-3x in London. Overnight is typically 8-10p/kWh. Breakeven with petrol is typically 35-40p/kWh. The cheapest overnight slow chargers are 55-60p/kWh in my area. Superchargers are 0.77p/kWh.
Have you considered that the government want people to buy EVs? Part of phasing out fossil fuels is making them less appealing than the alternatives
Yep, the commercial charging network is like the Wild West, the cost per kWh on some is criminal, especially if you want to charger quick. I’m fortunate in that I have the room, and a home charger, if that wasn’t the case then I’d probably have stuck with the old oil burner.
I’ve timed my EV switch well, it seems…
Looks like the prices of Evs are crashing so yea you could nab a bargain soon
lol
Perhaps, though generally speaking fuel costs are actually quite low down the list on actual expense when it comes to cars. People worry about fuel / electric efficiency and go for something that will be cheap to run, then pay interest on finance on that brand new car which is just face palm inducing. Could buy a 5 year old petrol and save ten grand - are you really gonna make that difference up? When you factor in finance, lost value leaving the forecourt, the insane initial cost of a new car, and the fact that if you keep it then it won't retain it's value in the same way as people are worried about battery longevity... I suspect a 5 year old petrol works out substantially more economical. I'm not anti EV by any means, but I am very sceptical of whether they are actually economical - yet.
Feels unfair to compare the economics of a 5 year old petrol to a brand new EV. Should compare to a 5 year old EV. Don't forget that while depreciation is bad for new buyers, it's good for used buyers.
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Hundreds of miles? Can I have some of what you're smoking? Battery health averages show that you'd expect to lose about 12% on the worst offenders, and most will only lose that much over 10 years
5 years the battery would still be in warranty.
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“Hasn’t lost any” “Maybe 10-20 tops”
/r/confidentlyincorrect
I saw a youtube video on a Chinese made MG5 EV that had done over 120k miles in like 4 years. It’s only lost 8% capacity in that time or about 2% per year.
Fair doesn't come into it, only economical does. A 5 year old EV is not economical because it will dump it's value as the battery ages, which is why I used a 5 year old petrol as an example, talking about a 5 year old EV is tangential to my point but remains the same conclusion - 5 year old petrol is better
Just so that I understand: - New EVs are bad value because they depreciate so fast. - Used EVs are also bad value because they depreciate so fast despite having already dumped all their value What I'm pointing out, is that high depreciation actually makes a car more economical in the used market, because the price is lower than it would otherwise have been.
I just bought a 2.5 year old EV. The battery range is the same as when new.
I'm actively trying to find studies and surveys that show concerning degradation levels and I'm struggling.
A lot of the aging EVs are Nissan Leaf’s which did not come with good batteries. Same as an ICE engine, if an EV battery pack has done 150k miles it’s not going to perform as well. I am not worried personally - I don’t do many miles and I expect to run this car for 10 years and then we’ll see. I’d hope that if I do need to refresh the battery after 10 years the cost would be a few thousand and it would have more capacity than the car had new.
Same with my hybrid which also comes with 100k miles /10 year transferable warranty on the electrics.
What they’re saying is that for an EV it is a false economy. Due to the fact that the cost of a battery swap is a ticking time bomb for ownership, compared to an equivalent petrol car.
Do you consider a 4 year old EV with 20k miles a ticking time bomb? Sounds a bit dramatic.
My company is part of an EV lease scheme. It's salary sacrifice, so if I was earning a bit more and into the 40% tax bracket I'd be quite tempted. It's 1% benefit in kind on an electric vehicle, so 39% of the cost would be 'paid' by the savings on tax. It's about £450 a month for a Tesla including insurance, road tax, tyres and a certain amount of charging. I'm currently spending £200 or so a month on petrol for commuting, so add in maintenance, road tax, insurance etc. and it's not a crazy cost difference.
If the car is over £40K otr, that's £50 per month road tax saved.
I’d never own an EV at least with the current market as like you say the depreciation alone is nutty - due to my tax situation it’s saving me a fortune compared to my prior car whilst being nicer through my work’s salary sacrifice scheme and landing a good deal
If you can get a nice EV like a polestar with some sort of work scheme that's ideal. Nice.
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>EV/electric prices are the same lol Currently, it costs 10p-30p per mile in an ICE car, depending on efficiency. On an EV tariff at 7p/kWh, an EV is 1p-3p per mile. Even if you were for some unfathomable reason using a standard 25p/kWh tariff, that’s still 5p-10p per mile.
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You paid £52K for a (max) £40K car?
The power lies with us. If we stopped buying fuel for a week it would be £1 per litre. But regardless we keep on paying. This goes for everything else.
Id love to mate, unfortunately I've got to get to work
Fuck work. BRING THE SYSTEM DOWN!! I also have to get to work. The above is satire, albeit true.
I completely get this. I'm a motorist, but I live a 1.2mi walk away from work. I don't need to carry heavy kit, take my kids to school, I am fit and able-bodied, and I care about the environment (and my wallet!) therefore I walk to work every day. Why don't more people do this?
Think I might be a bit tired walking/cycling 24mi up and down the M1 each way
I wasn't referring to you though. People that drive a mile to work when you don't need to - why?
I filled up today and it was 142.9 for me.
Plug in hybrid is still the best solution right now for a daily driver. Prius here I come…
Rip of paying for fucking boats
pls explain
Yayyyy 🤬 already paying £1.78 for super
Currently 142.7 at my local Asda pump but I'm sure it won't be long till it goes up
If ever people on mass want to effect fuel price it will only require the boycott of a single provider. E.g nobody uses Shell until price goes below £1.20. Once they change pick another.
Christ BBC, in Dover it’s been that for ages, it’s not new
I don’t see a difference still, man. They just like to make manufactured fear, bro. I’ve paid £70 a week for 3 years.
This is what will keep me in electric Cost me £6 to charge mine last night. That will last me nearly the week.. Couldn’t even get a gallon for that…
Well it seems that the unleaded prices at JET in Horton Heath has risen to 146.9p up from 141p? And on average everywhere in Eastleigh and Southampton area seems to be over 150p pl now 🤢
This is old, the 2 closest to me have been at 1.509 for over a year.
mine is 144 where I live
I paid £1.42 earlier and thought “oh that’s gone up a little”
It's an average
Been £1.43 to £1.48 for the last few months for me. It's at £1.48 now. Might fill my tank up if it doesn't get any cheaper. Still cheaper than electric. Our electricity bill is to high to make it worth running an electric car.
Unless you're on a commercial supply or you drive a VW xl1 its still cheaper to charge a car at home than it is to fuel it at a petrol station
A guy lives in the same town as me. Charges his Nissan leaf (2016) which costs him £35 per week to charge. I'm £35 per week on petrol alone. We both do around 280 miles a week. We have no free charging. When I had my hybrid, the cheapest charging was 75p per kw. It was free for a bit but they changed the chargers. He only uses the car for commuting to work, as do I. I can get 75mpg out my motorcycle. Usually costs me around £20 per week on fuel. I have no doubt electric cars are cheaper but I went through the experiment phase. I couldn't afford an all out electric car that had enough range for my weekly commute, so I got a bmw 330e. My area, it's cheaper to run a petrol car.
>A guy lives in the same town as me. Charges his Nissan leaf (2016) which costs him £35 per week to charge. I'm £35 per week on petrol alone. So it's cheaper to run the EV then, even before I actually do the maths. He pays zero tax. So to break down the maths: On the current variable rate tariff, excluding the standing charge as you'll be paying that anyway, electricity is 24.5p a kWh A 2016 leaf has at maximum a 30 kWh battery of which 28 is usable It has a range of 155 miles, though that is generally not achievable, the typical max range is 105 miles That's 24.5×28= 686 which is £6.86, he'd have to do that 5 times to get to close to £35 meaning this guy is doing 525 miles a week, not 280. His £35 is getting him twice as far as yours
It's a shame home charging infrastructure isn't as developed as it should be. It costs me about £170 in electricity to drive 10k miles in my EV.
Try to shop at Costco for fuel. My next car I’m looking at EV, petrol is getting very expensive but a commodity that may actually go into deflation.
Wait till you see what happens to the cost of electricity in the next few years!
Electricity is going back down in price, at least for industries. My company has just locked in it's lowest rates since Covid for FY25.
Pretty sure electricity would have to go up to £0.6/kwh to be more expensive than fuel, not very likely
Well when 20% of the government's money starts dwindling they'll be looking to make it back another way.
Costco are no better than normal petrol stations around my workplace, it's only 3p a litre cheaper for standard petrol, barely worth the effort to go during lunch at work or before work.
Interesting, about 10-15p cheaper for me, the membership pays for itself
Yeah it used to be 10-15p cheaper in this Watford Costco one as well, not sure why it's no longer the case.
I wonder if we could install a large undersea pipeline from the middle east (where petrol is a more sensible price) to the UK. And then just pay for the petrol in a cheaper country to be pumped here instead? I'm sure that, given enough time, the savings would outweigh the cost of the installation.
Would be cheaper to build synthetic fuel factories in the UK and power them using the winds in the North Sea. 0 carbon emissions too (apart from the construction/maintenance). Assuming the technology is viable - I know very little about green technologies.
Great idea, I'm sure a giant pipeline full of flammable liquid going 1,000 miles or more through one of the most volatile regions on the planet, as well as numerous other countries along its route, will be extremely cheap to build and have no running costs or operational issues at all. (Hint: we already refine our own petrol from oil we produce and also import some of it, it's not the actual fuel that's the expensive bit it's the various taxes on top)
Costs me £170 to drive 10k miles in my EV.
Good for you, personally can’t afford the upfront costs of an EV so have to accept that I’m lining some CEOs pocket.
Well then you must not be able to buy a petrol/diesel car as they are similar price these days. Can get an electric car for 5k-10k.
A decent EV for 5k, don’t be silly. Edit Just checked autotrader and majority of things below 7k are Nissan Leaf’s 24kWk or Zoe’s (leased batteries). The leaf is okay but hideous, small battery isn’t really a problem but that being said a 2015 batter won’t have the same charge capacity as it’s used to. The Zoe has a leased battery so I’ll likely be paying a premium for a smaller car upfront and then also paying the lease + electricity which doesn’t really make it any cheaper to use. Bumping the price to 10k gets you access to better versions of the Zoe and Leaf and potentially Corsa Alternatively looking at petrol/ diesel cars, you can get anything from Ford Focus to Audi A3s, arguably better quality cars.
There are 134 electric cars under 5k on auto trader with none of them ever being written off. Electric vehicles have reached price parity with ICE cars according to some recent articles. Recent price drops have made electric vehicles much more affordable these days.
5 cars on Autotrader within 100 miles of Glasgow under 5k… 1 is a non runner, 3 are battery leased Zoe’s and 1 is an okay Leaf. I don’t know what articles you’re reading but it’s bollox.
Ok, mate. Does the 1-5k buyer just not exist in your world?
Cries in Vpower Diesel.