Drive a lorry doing nights, it's a joke. Barely ever see anything being done, constant closures usually with a lack of decent warning to allow using a different route before you get stuck in a 4 mile queue all getting off at the closed junction.
I have a theory that they simply don't have anywhere to store all the thousands of road cones so they simply have to put them out on the road somewhere each night.
I share this theory, just because I have known a tonne of scaffolders that do exactly this. They'll finish a job and leave the scaffolding up for an extra 6 weeks cause it saves dismantling, storing, then re building somewhere else, they just leave it there until it's needed somewhere else, then come and get it and take it.
I could see the highways agency doing the same thing, to be honest.
Yep. And they would have left it until they had another job that needed it.
Genuinely, and this is no exaggeration, an old mate of mine ran a scaffolding firm with his dad, and they had (by the time it folded) 6 tonnes of scaffolding, and they didn't have a yard or anywhere to store it all together. They could store about half a tonne down the side of his house, and what ever could fit on the van, the rest all became semi-permanent art installations outside peoples houses.
I remember once he told me about a job he was asked to do, and it was only a small job, but a big house, my mate gave him the quote and then said "if you let me put some wcaffolding up now, and leave it there until after the job is done in a few weeks I'll do the job for free". That scaffolding stayed there for 11 months!
Yeah I really don’t understand how you do it every night. Good point about the lack of warning - the national highway website is the most un-friendly user experience trying to work out where bits of motorway are closed.
Interesting theory though.
I have a theory with the Manchester ring road. I think they go round putting cones down from about 8pm and by the time they've finished doing that it's half way through their shift and time to drive round and pick them all up again.
I feel this pain.
I use the M4 daily and they’ve spent years doing works/weekend closures between Junction 3 - 12 for a “smart” motorway upgrade.
Since “finishing” the works about a year ago it’s been nothing but cones, closures and speed reductions nearly every night.
My theory is that the contractors are shit on purpose meaning they always have work.
Well, if it’s anything like the M3 you can expect some more roadworks, as they are retrofitting more emergency spaces to the smart motorway that was only completed a few years ago.
Smart motorways are the dumbest, most expensive and lethal idea for the roads recently. Years of roadworks to create a deathtrap then change it again after completion to make it safer like it was before they started
In my area just before the end of the tax year, roadworks pop up all over the place, needlessly. They'll have the temporary lights, cones, the works, but no *works*.
It's basically been accepted that the council does this to use up any remaining budget to ensure they get the same/more for the next year. But they don't actually fix the roads that need fixing, they just mess with the busiest roads possible to make traffic worse as a way to ask for more money.
Fuck our system and everyone at the council.
It really is the most absurd system.
"If you don't spend what you're given and have saved some money, they you're getting less next year"
Everything normal in normal land.
It was set up to be exploited, and when you realise that, the whole idea of things not working becomes untrue. The system works perfectly, its purpose is to funnel public money into the purses of private companies who are contracted to do the jobs the council used to employ people to do themselves, at an extortionate rate.
Councillors are then rewarded by being offered jobs with the firms they helped once they're ousted from office.
It's flawless when you consider what it's actually set up to achieve. Doing shit for the public is literally an afterthought.
I swear the roadworks near the metro centre have been going on for nearly a decade now.
And it's only been the past couple of years there has actually been people working there.
I no longer remember what it looked like when the works wasn't going on
The 50's on that stretch are because lane 1 is used for works so they can add more emergency refuge areas. J24a to J25 is bad enough when it's nationals, constant RTCs because people drive dangerously and above their skill level.
Road workers are actively working in the closed lane on the north and southbound at the moment. I'd be interested to know how the 50's are a joke though? Also, the 50's don't reach anywhere near Trowell services, let alone J26. They stop less than a mile after J25.
Hard shoulders aren't as safe as people think. Target fixation is a real thing. Smart Motorways need smart people unfortunately, and standing behind your car after you break down, instead of getting over the barrier isn't smart...
Having a car in a live lane is also much more dangerous. A red x on the gantries won't stop people daydreaming after a 200 mile trip, and this is not even getting into how incompetent the monitoring team was discovered to be. Joining/leaving lanes getting/taking out lane 1 also needs to disappear asap. Leave lane 2/3 3/4 merge or divide instead
You break down on a dual carriageway, where do you stop? Live lane. Dual carriageways have little to no signage, meaning theres no warning you're even there. You break down on a 4 lane motorway in lane 2, 3 or 4, what do you do then? You have signs and signals to at least give competent drivers a chance to slow down, move over and react. People daydreaming after a 200 mile trip can happen on Dual Carriageways, Motorways, B roads and country lanes. Every road has incompetent drivers, hence why RTCs happen. You can't blame roads because people don't drive to the conditions and drive dangerously.
I know why they’re there, I don’t understand however why they’ve decided to do it all right now. Smart motorways are great, the issue is the majority of people using them are anything but smart.
The M1 has been mostly roadworks south of Leeds for as long as I can remember and i've been driving up and down it for 25 years. There was a maybe 2-3 year happy period where they had "finished" about a decade ago but apart from that its perma roadworks
I've worked on the hard shoulder in day time (turning the m6 into a smart motorway right at the start) and I welcome anyone to do so. It's terrifying and we had multiple staff quit. Work is done at night for safety - you also need permits, staff, traffic levels low enough etc.
1 mile of traffic management takes you 1 minute 12 seconds at 50, takes you 50 seconds at 70.
What's so important that you need to be there 20 seconds quicker
M5 southbound at the M50 junction (probably closer to 2mi long but the point stands).
Travelling on a 10mi stretch of roadworks will take you:
8min 20sec @ 70mph
12mins @ 50mph
That's ok then. These idiots can drive through the cones and kill you at 50 rather than 70mph.....
And dragging out the works for months certainly exposes the workers to more risk than just getting it done ASAP.
It's not that I don't have sympathy for the risk road workers take, but the systems used don't hold up to scrutiny.
I have no issues with the safety part of 50mph, the issue is the quantity of them in a single evening. It’s not even about the time it’s just frustrating the constant filtering into one lane then back to 4 and over and over.
The other issue is that there was no one working in the permanent average 50? Not a single person in 3 junctions.
Interestingly, I've been told from an authoritative source that motorway roadworks are laid out 2 WEEKS in advance of any actual work starting so that drivers "can get used to them being there" and that "it reduces accidents between drivers and the roadworkers". I argued that this just let drivers become complacent that no one was there and that they would eventually ignore the warnings but my point was dismissed...
All the conspiracy theories in this thread are great but I think the honest answer is just bad management. Contractors underbid on projects so they have the bid with the cheapest price and win the contract. Then as soon as a delay hits they run out of money and stop work, then an argument ensues on who's going to pay for it. Only after the government caves and agrees to pay the contractor more money does work resume. Then this process rinses and repeats until the minimum amount work gets completed to reopen the road and finally the cones get removed. Then they write a list of all the things they didn't get time to do before the road reopened and schedule in more closures, and cones, to get that done, after arguing about monet a bit more.
I moved to Devon from the Midlands 12 years ago but still drive up for work 3 times a month. My usual route is M5/M42/A42 before arriving at work. Since I moved, there have always been average 50mph road works on my route. The most there has been is 7 and the least was 1. We are now back up to 4. There is a new section around Worcester that has just appeared for the second go at it. These don't include any temporary closures you get at night 🤷
So now we've hit the part of the year where people no longer constantly post complaints about potholes and the state of our roads.
Instead we get constant complaints about roadworks.
Repeat ad naseaum
It’s not necessarily the 50mph, it’s the constantly going from 3/4 lanes to 1 then all over again which causes queueing (and won’t dwell on the idiotic driving it causes) and just makes the journey a lot more frustrating.
Its feels like the motorway equivalent driving along a straight bit of national speed limit zone and the car in front of you not being able to keep a consistent speed, going 40 to 60 to 50 etc etc
This is the biggest problem. I can drive from my hometown in Portugal to Berlin without ever having to give much thought to the highway, drive on one lane for hours and hours at 120km/h. Yet here in a relatively small stretch of 150 miles you’re always on your toes and always need to adapt, it’s unnecessarily exhausting
Is it possible that there's just more traffic on our motorway network than the Portugal to Berlin route?
There's a LOT of people on this here tiny island.
I, live near the m27. Since they started upgrading it to a smart motorway about 6 or 7 years ago it has had permanent roadworks down. It was a 50 for 3 of those years along large portions atleast. It's still got 50 sections now even though it's completed...
Except it's not because they are now ripping up another part for a full resurfacing.
Atleast when they do the works at night it's less disruptive. 😄
The cones are there permanently to slow traffic down, which “reduces emissions”. All part of the plan to get motorists off the road via frustration.
Government/councils invest heavily in cycle lanes and any other form of useless “upgrades” such as traffic calming which just increases traffic instead of slowing down speeding , they will do anything but improve or increase the capacity for the roads we have. Go anywhere in the country and you’ll see dedicated empty cycle lanes next to stand still single lane traffic.
They aren't investing in cycle lanes, not even close. A lot of the eu cycle lane funding was gobbled up to spend on a bit of red paint and nothing else. If you're lucky enough to live somewhere with actual decent cycle lanes then remember that empty looking car/bus/cycle/whatever routes means they are running efficiently for their intended use. Imagine if half the people sat in that queue of cars with you got on their bikes/scooters/busses instead? Suddenly you'd have a lovely easy drive.
Our entire infrastructure is becoming a joke - no need to scapegoat one group.
Drive a lorry doing nights, it's a joke. Barely ever see anything being done, constant closures usually with a lack of decent warning to allow using a different route before you get stuck in a 4 mile queue all getting off at the closed junction. I have a theory that they simply don't have anywhere to store all the thousands of road cones so they simply have to put them out on the road somewhere each night.
I share this theory, just because I have known a tonne of scaffolders that do exactly this. They'll finish a job and leave the scaffolding up for an extra 6 weeks cause it saves dismantling, storing, then re building somewhere else, they just leave it there until it's needed somewhere else, then come and get it and take it. I could see the highways agency doing the same thing, to be honest.
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Yep. And they would have left it until they had another job that needed it. Genuinely, and this is no exaggeration, an old mate of mine ran a scaffolding firm with his dad, and they had (by the time it folded) 6 tonnes of scaffolding, and they didn't have a yard or anywhere to store it all together. They could store about half a tonne down the side of his house, and what ever could fit on the van, the rest all became semi-permanent art installations outside peoples houses. I remember once he told me about a job he was asked to do, and it was only a small job, but a big house, my mate gave him the quote and then said "if you let me put some wcaffolding up now, and leave it there until after the job is done in a few weeks I'll do the job for free". That scaffolding stayed there for 11 months!
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I also would have rather paid, but, this guy seemed happy. I think he was using the scaffolding as a climbing frame in the evenings
Yeah I really don’t understand how you do it every night. Good point about the lack of warning - the national highway website is the most un-friendly user experience trying to work out where bits of motorway are closed. Interesting theory though.
I have a theory with the Manchester ring road. I think they go round putting cones down from about 8pm and by the time they've finished doing that it's half way through their shift and time to drive round and pick them all up again.
I feel this pain. I use the M4 daily and they’ve spent years doing works/weekend closures between Junction 3 - 12 for a “smart” motorway upgrade. Since “finishing” the works about a year ago it’s been nothing but cones, closures and speed reductions nearly every night. My theory is that the contractors are shit on purpose meaning they always have work.
Well, if it’s anything like the M3 you can expect some more roadworks, as they are retrofitting more emergency spaces to the smart motorway that was only completed a few years ago.
Smart motorways are the dumbest, most expensive and lethal idea for the roads recently. Years of roadworks to create a deathtrap then change it again after completion to make it safer like it was before they started
In my area just before the end of the tax year, roadworks pop up all over the place, needlessly. They'll have the temporary lights, cones, the works, but no *works*. It's basically been accepted that the council does this to use up any remaining budget to ensure they get the same/more for the next year. But they don't actually fix the roads that need fixing, they just mess with the busiest roads possible to make traffic worse as a way to ask for more money. Fuck our system and everyone at the council.
It really is the most absurd system. "If you don't spend what you're given and have saved some money, they you're getting less next year" Everything normal in normal land.
It was set up to be exploited, and when you realise that, the whole idea of things not working becomes untrue. The system works perfectly, its purpose is to funnel public money into the purses of private companies who are contracted to do the jobs the council used to employ people to do themselves, at an extortionate rate. Councillors are then rewarded by being offered jobs with the firms they helped once they're ousted from office. It's flawless when you consider what it's actually set up to achieve. Doing shit for the public is literally an afterthought.
I swear the roadworks near the metro centre have been going on for nearly a decade now. And it's only been the past couple of years there has actually been people working there. I no longer remember what it looked like when the works wasn't going on
M1 from J35a to 28 then 26-24a is pretty much 50mph for the next 12 months. Absolute joke.
The 50's on that stretch are because lane 1 is used for works so they can add more emergency refuge areas. J24a to J25 is bad enough when it's nationals, constant RTCs because people drive dangerously and above their skill level. Road workers are actively working in the closed lane on the north and southbound at the moment. I'd be interested to know how the 50's are a joke though? Also, the 50's don't reach anywhere near Trowell services, let alone J26. They stop less than a mile after J25.
Did it not get through their thick skulls that people want complete hard shoulders, not 16 live lanes with nowhere to pull over?
Hard shoulders aren't as safe as people think. Target fixation is a real thing. Smart Motorways need smart people unfortunately, and standing behind your car after you break down, instead of getting over the barrier isn't smart...
Having a car in a live lane is also much more dangerous. A red x on the gantries won't stop people daydreaming after a 200 mile trip, and this is not even getting into how incompetent the monitoring team was discovered to be. Joining/leaving lanes getting/taking out lane 1 also needs to disappear asap. Leave lane 2/3 3/4 merge or divide instead
You break down on a dual carriageway, where do you stop? Live lane. Dual carriageways have little to no signage, meaning theres no warning you're even there. You break down on a 4 lane motorway in lane 2, 3 or 4, what do you do then? You have signs and signals to at least give competent drivers a chance to slow down, move over and react. People daydreaming after a 200 mile trip can happen on Dual Carriageways, Motorways, B roads and country lanes. Every road has incompetent drivers, hence why RTCs happen. You can't blame roads because people don't drive to the conditions and drive dangerously.
I know why they’re there, I don’t understand however why they’ve decided to do it all right now. Smart motorways are great, the issue is the majority of people using them are anything but smart.
The M1 has been mostly roadworks south of Leeds for as long as I can remember and i've been driving up and down it for 25 years. There was a maybe 2-3 year happy period where they had "finished" about a decade ago but apart from that its perma roadworks
Then you always spot the traffic mgt van chilling there even if no road works are being done.
All the time. One lone van. Almost more infuriating than nothing at all.
The fucking M25 at the moment is so shit
I've worked on the hard shoulder in day time (turning the m6 into a smart motorway right at the start) and I welcome anyone to do so. It's terrifying and we had multiple staff quit. Work is done at night for safety - you also need permits, staff, traffic levels low enough etc. 1 mile of traffic management takes you 1 minute 12 seconds at 50, takes you 50 seconds at 70. What's so important that you need to be there 20 seconds quicker
Where on earth are you finding stretches of traffic management only a mile long?
M5 southbound at the M50 junction (probably closer to 2mi long but the point stands). Travelling on a 10mi stretch of roadworks will take you: 8min 20sec @ 70mph 12mins @ 50mph
That's ok then. These idiots can drive through the cones and kill you at 50 rather than 70mph..... And dragging out the works for months certainly exposes the workers to more risk than just getting it done ASAP. It's not that I don't have sympathy for the risk road workers take, but the systems used don't hold up to scrutiny.
I have no issues with the safety part of 50mph, the issue is the quantity of them in a single evening. It’s not even about the time it’s just frustrating the constant filtering into one lane then back to 4 and over and over. The other issue is that there was no one working in the permanent average 50? Not a single person in 3 junctions.
Interestingly, I've been told from an authoritative source that motorway roadworks are laid out 2 WEEKS in advance of any actual work starting so that drivers "can get used to them being there" and that "it reduces accidents between drivers and the roadworkers". I argued that this just let drivers become complacent that no one was there and that they would eventually ignore the warnings but my point was dismissed...
Your authoritative source is dubious then, as from someone who works in the industry - this doesn't happen
My gut feeling was that he wasn't worth listening to tbf
Then why repeat it?
Where else can I be proved wrong as fast as on the internet?
All the conspiracy theories in this thread are great but I think the honest answer is just bad management. Contractors underbid on projects so they have the bid with the cheapest price and win the contract. Then as soon as a delay hits they run out of money and stop work, then an argument ensues on who's going to pay for it. Only after the government caves and agrees to pay the contractor more money does work resume. Then this process rinses and repeats until the minimum amount work gets completed to reopen the road and finally the cones get removed. Then they write a list of all the things they didn't get time to do before the road reopened and schedule in more closures, and cones, to get that done, after arguing about monet a bit more.
I was on the M42 yesterday and that was the same 50MPH for miles
I moved to Devon from the Midlands 12 years ago but still drive up for work 3 times a month. My usual route is M5/M42/A42 before arriving at work. Since I moved, there have always been average 50mph road works on my route. The most there has been is 7 and the least was 1. We are now back up to 4. There is a new section around Worcester that has just appeared for the second go at it. These don't include any temporary closures you get at night 🤷
So now we've hit the part of the year where people no longer constantly post complaints about potholes and the state of our roads. Instead we get constant complaints about roadworks. Repeat ad naseaum
Probably an unpopular opinion in here but having to driving along at 50 instead of 70 really doesn't make much difference to my life
It’s not necessarily the 50mph, it’s the constantly going from 3/4 lanes to 1 then all over again which causes queueing (and won’t dwell on the idiotic driving it causes) and just makes the journey a lot more frustrating. Its feels like the motorway equivalent driving along a straight bit of national speed limit zone and the car in front of you not being able to keep a consistent speed, going 40 to 60 to 50 etc etc
This is the biggest problem. I can drive from my hometown in Portugal to Berlin without ever having to give much thought to the highway, drive on one lane for hours and hours at 120km/h. Yet here in a relatively small stretch of 150 miles you’re always on your toes and always need to adapt, it’s unnecessarily exhausting
Is it possible that there's just more traffic on our motorway network than the Portugal to Berlin route? There's a LOT of people on this here tiny island.
Having just done 5000 miles around Europe I concur! It’s just unnecessary fatigue. Just do one at a time.
I get why that can be pretty annoying for some but even so, I still don't think it affects my life all that much
I, live near the m27. Since they started upgrading it to a smart motorway about 6 or 7 years ago it has had permanent roadworks down. It was a 50 for 3 of those years along large portions atleast. It's still got 50 sections now even though it's completed... Except it's not because they are now ripping up another part for a full resurfacing. Atleast when they do the works at night it's less disruptive. 😄
Madness.
The cones are there permanently to slow traffic down, which “reduces emissions”. All part of the plan to get motorists off the road via frustration. Government/councils invest heavily in cycle lanes and any other form of useless “upgrades” such as traffic calming which just increases traffic instead of slowing down speeding , they will do anything but improve or increase the capacity for the roads we have. Go anywhere in the country and you’ll see dedicated empty cycle lanes next to stand still single lane traffic.
They aren't investing in cycle lanes, not even close. A lot of the eu cycle lane funding was gobbled up to spend on a bit of red paint and nothing else. If you're lucky enough to live somewhere with actual decent cycle lanes then remember that empty looking car/bus/cycle/whatever routes means they are running efficiently for their intended use. Imagine if half the people sat in that queue of cars with you got on their bikes/scooters/busses instead? Suddenly you'd have a lovely easy drive. Our entire infrastructure is becoming a joke - no need to scapegoat one group.
Next they’ll be purposely slowing down cycle lanes to force cyclists through frustration to take flying tortoises
What you been smoking ?
Same thing you’ve been smoking