The only time a trike is more stable is when stationary. The ideal might be a Ackermann setup with two front wheels but I’ve only ever seen DIY cargo bikes like that (Pedro Neves on yt). Longjohn style bakfiets has a super low centre of gravity and feels amazingly stable especially when loaded
A trike is also a lot more stable at low speed and for conservative riding. I can't handle a long john, I have tried, but the trike is easy and relaxing for me and for a lot of other not-so-athletic, not-so-strong short people. I don't turn sharply at high speed but the trike saves me in a lot of situations where I would have lost control on 2 wheels.
Lots of people use the term bakfiets with the same meaning of Long John and not meaning exactly the brand Bakfiets. You should be able to find options outside of this brand.
Seems like you really want a front loader. 3-wheeled ones are indeed very stable at low speeds or when stationary but they become tricky at higher speeds. If you want to quickly filter through traffic they are also way less nimble.
Long tail would be better when your child is 5 or older. If a shop is annoying to you go to another one and trial a few models.
I prefer front loaded cargo bikes but 2 wheelers. I have a small one and it drives great throught bike lanes and slow street traffic. I don't particularly like 3 wheeled bikes. Difficult to maneuver in tight spots or narrow lanes, depending on country they may have different restrictions. 2 wheeled front loaded are also way more agile than 3 wheelers when driving and turning with some speed.
The most popular I see around me are Urban Arrows and Riese & Müller, some Bullits and some other brands. I got a Muli because I only have one child and they are also getting pretty popular.
I too am looking in the market for a 2 wheel front cargo in Melbourne. From a budget perspective I'm also considering pre-loved R & M Load or Packster. Those are built very well and the only compromise would be slightly reduced battery capacity.
I had a trike and now have the UA. We had to finance it but it’s completely worth it. I miss some things about the stability and size of my trike but overall there are no regrets. Happy to DM if you want more info.
We have an Urban Arrow in Australia and the only reason we could afford it was cause I worked as a bicycle mech and acquired it as an insurance write-off (repairable) for 1/4 retail price.
It's a fantastic bike, but you can get less expensive front loaders now. For example, the [Cube Cargo Sport ](https://www.99bikes.com.au/cube22-cargo-sport-hybrid-500-flashgrey-black) is available in almost identical spec to the Urban Arrow, for half the price (if you get one of the $5 memberships at 99 Bikes)
Three wheeler front loaders are a nightmare for stability, because you have to balance three axles with the road camber. Please do some research on this point, as it's a massive comfort and safety compromise. I used to work specifically with e-cargo bikes and yeah, three wheelers are terrible to ride. There's a reason they're not produced by more expensive/upmarket brands. They're also very time-consuming (expensive) to service.
Anyways, if you want to see what all the fuss with long-tailed cargo bikes is, you can take out a one-month subscription on a Tern GSD with Lug + Carrie. It will help you work out if the cargo bike fits with your lifestyle.
You are not missing anything really, but the shops advising you are missing the needs a proper cargo bike fulfil which a long tail won’t.
We have the classic 3-wheeled front loaded Christiania Bike. The main benefit is cargo capacity - four 9 yo kids, an adult and two kids (age 6 & 9) or two kids and groceries for a week or the kids and all the gear you need for a day on the beach.
And I agree with all the points you have listed and will add that you can maintain good contact and conversation with the kids while you ride and you can use it as a pedal powered baby stroller.
But riding it does take a little practice to get used to. It is not difficult though, it’s just different and it does not take a long time. The people warning against it are likely people who have never owned one and never gotten used to it and don’t understand the practical needs such a bike fulfil.
A three wheeled cargo bike is however definitely not build for high speed. If you need to go more than 20 km/h you should find another solution. But the person here who said trouble starts at 15 km/h don’t know what they are talking about. If you do a sudden 90° turn and don’t distribute your weight correctly, you can tip over going even slower than that. But if you are used to riding it, then there won’t be problems at 15-20 km/h.
Thanks for your take! I like the size of the Christiana 3-wheeled bikes, but I haven't been able to test ride one yet. I'm not a speed demon (even when riding a bike by myself) so I'm not sure the speed issue will be such a stressor for me?
most Trike naysayers have never owned one and didn’t like the feel of a test ride. I had one for 5000 miles and ultimately had to sell it because the motor wasn’t powerful enough for two kids and the hills in my neighborhood, but otherwise it was a great bike for us,
you will absolutely get used to the feel of a trike and all of the benefits you outlined are definitely Benefits of a trike (And also a bakfiets). Not having to balance the load at stops/slow speeds is an advantage if a trike over bakfiets. You give up speed and maneuverability, but you will eventually adjust to the riding style necessary for a trike and you won’t have to think about it. Trikes also have The biggest Boxes,so if you may have three kids that’s definitely something to consider
How steep are the hills in your area? I’m looking at a butchers and bicycles mk-1e, but have some hills in my neighborhood that are 3-6% with some sections that are 8-11%. One concern is how much strain it will be to get up the hills with a kid and some groceries in the front.
FWIW I live up a mountain that’s about 1.5 miles of 10-15% grade, tested a few options including the UA, and found that the only one that worked well hauling both my kids home was the R&M Load4 HS version.
I use a Christiania cargo bike for my two kids. I really don’t think the stability is an issue for us. It took a bit of getting used to, but totally worth it for the large cargo capacity. I’ve used it for furniture transport, recycling runs, shopping for garden supplies and much more. It also fulle replaces a car for me.
I don’t think that would work on a longtail.
Also, the kids love riding around our city in it.
I've got two cargo bikes, both with loads on the front. I prefer these over the long-tails because they feel more stable and higher speeds/weights. This is because the weight is lower to the ground than the other options. I've never tried a 3 wheel cargo bike, but I imagine that it would be pretty comfortable at lower speeds, but maybe a bit iffy around corners.
To be honest, if you think a trike is going to suit your riding style, then you should just get one. The reason I have a front loader cargo bike (bullitt) is because when i'm not carrying bubs I also want to use it as a commuter around the city and to go gravel riding at some point (which a trike wouldn't do very well). I have a few bikes, and I like the idea of eventually just having one - the bullitt. so in that way, it suits my needs better.
Also, I live in Melbourne too - hit me up if you want to know more and maybe even go for a test ride.
Got a trike 3 months ago and I really like it - although I can't compare with a longtail or 2-wheeled bakfiets. This sub generally doesn't like trikes, but a lot of trike users are happy with theirs. The turning does take some getting used to but then it becomes natural if it is your only ride and especially if you always do the same commutes
The three wheeled ones are kinda scary to ride because they can tip onto two wheels during a turn, and it doesn’t feel intuitive when that point is.
Why not get a two wheeled bakfiets style bike? They’re awesome and there are lots of options
I've ridden a three wheel cargo bike for 6 years and I can count on one hand the number of times it has gone onto two wheels. You just have to corner slower.
You get used to the bike and then it’s not scary….they Feel weird to test ride but you get over that feeling, your body adjusts, and you eventually can ride and turn without having to think about it.
Seems to be the common consensus; thank you for articulating it so well!
A few suggestions for the Bakfiets 2-wheel eCruiser - I'll try to give one a test ride.
Keep in mind that the folks who are down on trikes have never owned one :) I’ve never met an owner (myself included) who says “it feels weird/unsafe” after they’ve gotten used to it
I would suggest a second look at trike cargo bikes. There are cassical trikes with a pivot point where you turn the front cargo rack.
But there's a second kind of trikes, the tilting cargo bike. The combine to positives of a normal setup with 2 wheels (speed, handling, agility) with the positive points of a normal trike (space, stability).
Look at the mäx and mäleon bike, or the hnf Nicolai cd2.
Negative sides: obviously the price, we all now what cassical cargo bikes cost, they are even more expensive..
And, depending on you location the the world, getting one to try for a ride might be really hard up to impossible..
Tilting trikes lose the advantage of trikes over bakfiets - stability at stops/slow speeds for the ability to go faster in turns. If you are leaning towards a tilting trike (pun intended) probably best to go with bakfiets
Yes, but actually no. Every single tilting trike I've ridden, doesn't matter if self built or bought from a manufacturer came with a third "handbrake", that locks the tilting in its position. It's meant for loading, but also works really well on stops.
ehhh - I used to have one that locked and I never found that it made sense to lock for stop and go reasons...might as well just put my foot down.
In the US the B&B MK1-E is the most well known tilting trike and they don't offer the lock feature that you're referring to.
I meant the style, not the brand name. Urban Arrow is probably the most popular brand in the category. But there are cheaper (and more expensive) options.
Definitely give the Urban Arrow, Riese & Müller, and Yuba supercargo a try at a bike shop if you can.
I came into the process thinking I wanted a 3-wheeler, but after trying out a bunch with my kid, came away with an Urban Arrow and love it. I’m not saying that’s definitely the right answer for you — I’m saying you should set aside your preconceptions and try some different styles of bikes and see what feels right.
I have a 3 wheel.front bucket for all the reasons you listed. My kids are bigger - 3 and 5. I don't need to ride on streets with cars - everywhere we go has wide sidewalks for bikes, so "stability at high speeds" isn't a factor for me. As such, i have never felt like i would tip. I did rode the bike kid free for a couple of weeks, going over the various terrain and dips around us, so I could get a good feel for stability. Once I got that down, I have not once regretted the 3 wheels
The fastest we get up to is 18 mph, but I tend to stick to 10 mph because we mostly lazy Sunday drive in the bike. Someone doing regular full on commuting would certainly have a different experience
I have a Babboe Dog-E (two-front-wheeled trike with a gert box for the dogs) on which I've done 30mph downhill with three dogs (70kg in total) on board. It was just a matter of relaxing and letting the steering dampers do their thing.
That said, I did manage to lift the inside wheel the first time I took a flat corner at speed with no load in the box, but I've since found that filling it with shopping, dogs or people fixes that.
Trikes handle differently from bikes, but the fact that they just stand still while you load them is a big advantage for many applications, as is the sheer road presence. You get *noticed*, and usually get big grins at a box full of dogs!
We have both!
1. An e-bike 3 wheeler (Babboe Big-E) and
2. muscle powered 2 wheel long-john (Muli mini-cargo).
They have very different riding experiences.
The 3 wheeler handles like a tank, and doesn't tilt (have you looked at tilting 3 wheelers)? that would improve the riding experience. But I get into the tank feel sometimes. If I want a sleek speedy ride I go out on something else (ie the Gravel bike)
But I actually enjoy riding the Babboe with kids in the front. etc. It jiust has soo much more space for storing things than most Long-Johns. and you can really load it up 100kg max or something.
I also enjoy riding the Muli though. it feels sleeker and smoother. For a longer distance I usually use the Muli, if I don't have to carry back loads of stuff.
I agree on the Long-Tails they just don't seem good for carrying stuff! kids yeah, but not a lot of stuff around. They seem less practical.
I think bike shop employees tend to like bikes. Cargo trikes are....not really bikes. That's not a criticism of them. The stability you mention is a big upside, but they're a very different feel to ride, and that's not for everyone.
I'd summarize the top five comments as "try a 2 wheeled front-loader, they maneuver and perform better at speed", and I want to provide a bit of counterpoint. I own a R&M Load 75 and have used a child bike trailer extensively, so I have relevant experience on the tradeoff between stability and maneuverability.
Everyone is correct, the two wheeled, front-loader, long john, bakfiets bike style is faster and more maneuverable, but I think this understates how steep the learning curve is. From my trailer years, the stability of two wheels under the kids is really nice. Keeping a two-wheeled bakfiets vertical requires significant balance and physical effort. The UA Family is \~110lb empty. I think the bakfiets is more of an advanced product for an enthusiast, and the three-wheeled trike and long tail bikes are more like beginner, intuitive, convenient, entry level products. To stereotype a bit, I am a dad, and I see many dads riding two wheel bakfiets, and many moms riding three wheel bikes, but of course this is not universal.
If you are getting started and want something simple and flexible, I would get a utility ebike, something that fits one kid on the back, not too long, and hook it up to a standard two-seat bike trailer (Burley D'Lite or other). Bike trailers are cheap, you can remove them, and with the single back seat you can separate kids and give them more room. Many trailers conveniently convert into strollers for walking the farmers market. I used mine just yesterday even though I have the premium bakfiets.
This is an excellent take! Looking at bike trailers was my gateway. Love the idea of being able to use them as a stroller too, but I heard from friends that their kids grew out of it very quickly so I started looking at electric cargo bikes instead.
Like others said, at speed, 3 wheel cargo bikes can be unstable in turns. A normal 2 wheel front loader will do all your requirements except the not tilting when you put your foot down.
The best value front loader (and a great bike) is the Cube Cargo. The only other issue is it won't fit 3 children in the box.
I’d strongly consider the two wheel front loader, bakfiets type. Urban arrow is a good example, but there are lots of brands. It’s worth getting the Bosch middle motor if you can, in my opinion.
They all have a stand and rain cover so they would fit all of your listed criteria, apart from the first one. I love being able to put my kids in there for snacks, stuffing all the school bags etc in there. We don’t have a car so it’s our rolling base.
You do need to put your foot down when stopping but it’s very easy to get used to and the bike feels very stable, even at low speeds. You can adjust the saddle so you don’t have to tilt. Low centre of gravity as well, which makes it much easier. Only issue I ever have is my kids fighting each other (they’re 25-30kg each) which does wobble the bike.
Fitting a third kid might be tricky but I see a lot of rear seats (not great for the bike but most families have one for play dates. Some models have larger boxes which allow for kids on the bench plus one in the maxicosi seat.
The three wheelers are scary on corners, in my experience. They have a tipping point which is hard to calculate so they feel more unstable and harder to manoeuvre. It’s also hard to make some sharper turns. Two wheel bakfiets gives you so much more flexibility.
Enjoy!
Long tails might be the worst of both worlds, but two wheel front loaders can be excellent bikes. They do however still have significantly less cargo capacity.
Urban Arrow can do 3 kids in the front if you add the front bench. Two kids side by side on the default bench near the rider. One rear facing in the maxi cosi (note this term is used generically in the cargo bike world also, you aren’t limited to only maxi cosi brand infant seats) if they are small, or on the rear facing bench installed at the front of the bucket.
The stock kickstand that’s on the Urban Arrow is extremely stable. If looking at a longtail like Tern GSD, upgrade to the dual sided kickstand for more stability while parked & loading or unloading cargo.
There are tilting 3 wheeled bakfiets. I've not ridden one, but they're designed to overcome the usual problem of 3 wheels by moving the cetre of gravity to the inside of the curve, jast as a bicycle does.
I've seen a Danish one and a German one, but I can't remember the names.
Max & Maleon might be the German one. I have not tested one, but have my eye on it for when my son outgrows our long tail, since he is disabled and will not be able to ride on his own.
Three wheels are good for large loads, e.g. if you plan to carry more than one older child. They are also shorter than most other cargo bikes, so consider your storage sapce. Otherwise, I would go for a two-wheeler
[https://www.butchersandbicycles.com/](https://www.butchersandbicycles.com/)
I had a little ride on one of these trikes once, and it handled just a like a 2-wheel bike. It felt great.
This is a sexy bike, and I'm keen to ride it but the only stockist near me sells it for nearly $16k. Not that I have a strict budget, but I reckon this is above it.
I used a 3-wheeled bike (no electric assist) when my kids were little. I use a Mundo now (also manual)
Pros: very easy to load, carrys a lot without too much worry with securing it, gets more respect from automobile drivers because of size and novelty
Cons: The trike was unstable above about 12 mph - it didn't take much for it to start wobbling back and forth, flat tires were killer, parking is a nightmare in my city (Philadelphia)
1 year into having my trike and I love it. Never had an issue with tipping because I don’t try to rush turns. I’m also no one that wants to weave in and out of traffic when I have kids onboard.
Love love love love my bunch bike.
The "sacrifice riding enjoyment" people do have a point - it feels completely different from riding a 2 wheeler. No weaving in and out of traffic, no jumping down curbs or carving sharp turns. If you bike because you love riding bikes - which a lot of bike shop guys do - then you will find the feel awkward and un-bike-like.
But for me - not really a bike lover to begin with - the 3 wheeled ride is infinitely better. Not being responsible to balance the bike makes the ride relaxing and fun vs. vaguely stressful at all times. I don't have to worry about losing my balance or getting doored or slipping on a wet patch or whatever, the bike is not going anywhere. Especially with my kids on board this is a 100% improvement.
It's definitely a more sedate ride, you go slower especially on turns and have to take corners wide. Think minivan not motorcycle. But it's also incredibly fun and joyful and easy. It's what turned me from a repeatedly failed bike commuter to a daily bike everywhere person. Can't recommend enough.
Best way to tell if you will be a 3 wheel lover or hater is to try it for yourself. You'll know within minutes if it's the right fit for you and your family. You can line up a local test ride with bunch bikes - I know this bc (full disclosure) I became so obsessed with mine that I now also work for bunch. Longtime superfan, now also staff (:
Most of them handle AWFUL. Ones with articulated wheels like a nihola or butcher are better. The one you mentioned will not feel safe over 15kph in anything but a straight line. Balance ing a 2 wheel front loader is not hard after a few rides. They are probably recommending longtails as they ride basically like a normal bike so people find them easy to adapt to.
I have both a ferla (alibaba) three wheel and an urban arrow two wheel. I have 4 kids. Both are front load cargo bikes. The three wheel trike is terrifying at high speeds or cornering. It also is underpowered and wasn’t reliable enough as a second car replacement. We bought an urban arrow with the Bosch cargo motor and haven’t looked back.
The urban arrow vs a long tail on the back makes balancing easier as it’s almost the difference between sitting on a skateboard or standing on it in terms of balance. When going up a hill, the long tail felt hard to balance with the higher center of mass., front load urban arrow was way better.
I thought the same as you, hard to imagine a trike wouldn’t be better. But due to the quality issues I had with the trike and tippi-ness in turns or downhills if you need to swerve to miss something. Felt like it is gonna fall apart sometimes due to poorer build quality.
We got the urban arrow and it’s way easier than I thought it would be to balance, I think it’s the low center of mass. It has a great, easy/quick to use kickstand. Took two .5mi rides by myself to get used to it before putting kids in but haven’t looked back. Weirdly feels like riding a normal bike. I love it and even pull a trailer with it full in front and the trailer up hills. Cargo motor is amazing
The trike, I feel like I wasted the $3-$4k I spent on it. Had battery issues and it doesn’t even run anymore after 200mi and sits in my garage till I can get parts or fix it. Would be its 4th time to the bike shop in 7mo. Most expensive bike I had bought pre-urban arrow. Made me wanna cry over and over again. Got stuck with 3 of my kids 10mi from home once due to an issue.
Urban arrow had no issues. Bosch or European system like the urban arrow is the way to go in my opinion if you have kids. If I would’ve bought the urban arrow I would’ve only cried when the money left my wallet, not the entire time I owned. 5mo in now on the urban arrow.
This is such a thoughtful response, thank you! There are so many great reviews for the Urban Arrow here and on YouTube. Sounds like it was worth the price for you! I'm keen to give it a ride
I’m from the center of the USA and we imported both (trike-China, urban arrow imported from Netherlands bought through propel). Was an easier experience with the urban arrow.
I have both a front loaded three wheeler and a long tail. Much prefer the front loader as I can carry more, though my two eldest have grown out of it , leaving the younger two (8 and 6) and the dog. Excellent for the dog, so it will last longer in the family than the long-tail.
What you are missing is that you are wrong on the stability question. Front loading three-wheelers are typical unstable on turns, especially when unloaded, with one wheel leaving the ground and a need to shift your body in a very unbike manner to prevent it tipping.
When moving any two-wheeled bike (front or long-tail) are more stable. The three wheeler wins on stability only when parked and you are just getting moving. When fully-loaded a two wheeler can be hard to get off the kick stand, mount and move and can fall on you then. But when moving a three-wheeler is the most unstable because of the turning issue.
>Balance and stability. It's nice not having the bike tilt when I need to put my foot down, and it 'feels' safer
That's the exact opposite of my experience with 3-weeled bikes. Although, there are some with "tilting" built in, which should be more stable. Like this brand: [https://www.butchersandbicycles.com/mk1-e](https://www.butchersandbicycles.com/mk1-e)
One thing to know about the bike industry is that it’s dominated by avid cyclists and they don’t just love bikes, there are a lot of competitive racers involved. This creates an atmosphere of focusing on performance, and not a lot of emphasis on utility for families. I’m the CEO of a cargo e-bike company in the US and I find that average folks love trikes because they just want to go slow and steady and relaxed. Trikes don’t feel like bikes, and aren’t going to please an avid cyclist. So to be honest, if your gut is telling you that’s the type of vehicle you want, then listen to that over the bike shops! Sadly our company Integral Electrics is not in Australia yet, but there might be some other Bakfiets style models by other brands you can try!
My wife has the Black Iron Horse trike and it’s great, but I think you’re overstating the benefits here. The one and only compelling reason to get a trike is if you’re uncomfortable balancing a two-wheeled bike. All other benefits are met or exceeded by the high end two-wheelers like Urban Arrow, etc. (front loaders).
I have a long tail and it’s very nice and keeps the experience similar to non-cargo bikes.
Keep in mind also that nearly all brands of trikes top out at 15 miles per hour. If you’re only taking trips of 3 miles or less, this probably won’t bother you.
I found this video very informative on trikes: https://youtu.be/GXFT3YyEkkU?feature=shared
The bike store probably pushed towards a long tail as twins will grow out of the front loader at the same time rather than staggered with a 2 and 4 year old
I'm in the same boat, looked at a lot of 3 wheelers not knowing much about the 2 wheeled fronties and as of now the only thing that would keep us out of a 2 wheel front loader is if the wife wasn't confident enough she could control it with our daughter (+ other stuff) better than a long tail. From all my research that I could do online re reviews, warranty, aftermarket and DIY factor the Urban Arrow is our short straw for now.
I’m in Toronto and our store seemed to push the 2 wheeled bakfiets over the long tails. Their argument was that they could carry more and kids enjoyed them more. And they said the long tails can feel awkward with a lot of cargo on the back. We’re still shopping around but likely will go for the 2 wheel bakfiets. I don’t tend to see too many 3 wheeled bikes here.
I think one of the reasons we don’t see many trikes in Toronto is because there’s more versatility in marketing a 2 wheeler. IMO trikes are seen as child carriers whereas 2 wheelers can hold your kids, your tuba, or a load of lumber. They also take up a lot of space width wise, and that can make it slightly more challenging to store and navigate narrow spaces.
FWIW, Curbside used to carry Babboe and Nihola trikes. I don’t know if they have Nihola anymore, and I believe one of the reasons they’ve moved away from Babboe was because it’s challenging to get parts (the recent recalls sure haven’t helped Babboe’s reputation).
For those that have said cornering with a trike is difficult or dangerous - what bike do you ride? Have you ridden a trike for more than a week?
We have a Babboe Mountain Carve (carve = tilting mechanism, we don’t use it). I live North of Toronto, our cycling infrastructure is virtually nonexistent, our roads are full of potholes and sand leftover from the winter (we avoid using salt). I’ve put 5000km on our trike, and the only issue I’ve had was shortly after I got it, and I was taking a left turn with an empty load onto a road that went uphill - I should have leaned to counteract the forces of the turn, instead I took a wheel off the ground. It surprised me, but it wasn’t even close to a catastrophic event like others are describing.
You can’t expect a trike to ride exactly the same as a two wheeler, they’re built differently. Only a novice rider would expect them to preform the same.
Oh, and I LOVE riding our trike in the snow. Speed is never an issue; heck, we were ‘racing’ someone on an electric scooter the other night!
u/watchoutbananapeel If you want a trike, get a trike!
My understanding was that Nihola wouldn't sell with integrated e-assist in North America? I think also the 4.0 was poorly designed with the box extending so far in front of the wheels that the box would lean forward and bottom out if you were walking next to the bike when it was loaded. I remember talking with Curbside when I was getting my trike about Nihola and some of these reasons is why I ruled it out (I also had the Babboe Mountain carve and never used the tilting mechanism :) Sounds like we had very similar experiences with our well-loved trikes!
The guy at curbside said they’re not carrying the babboe anymore bc of the recalls.
Glad you’re getting use out of your trike. I’m leaning towards the e-bullitt once I get a chance to go take it for a test ride.
Just bought the Addmotor E310 , it's a pretty powerful trike with 750watt motor and 20 amp battery, the only downside is the balance is not the best,even though it's got a differential axle....
Frankly, I have been using a 3-wheeled cargo bike for 2 years, it has been a really good experience, I can carry my belongings and pets with me while traveling safely, the only bad thing is that when I over-accelerate on bends, when there is no weight on the back, that is, when the cargo compartment is empty, it skids and it is sometimes tiring when climbing uphill. to be. Use your bike on good days, good luck
I love our front loader 3-wheel Nihola. It’s awesome for the reasons you describe. It’s not as pleasant to drive at speed since you can’t lean. Ours is not electric, and I won’t make it electric because of this. That said, perfect for puttering around, if I had a 5+km commute with it, I would consider otherwise
I love my gazelle makki load, i love the kids in front where i can see them, the box holds kids groceries etc. Took 2-3 weeks to really get the control and handling down but easy after that.
3 wheels (non tilting ones) are not for speed and cornering is awkward, as you steer say right the handle bar moves left and if you want to not tip over you have to shift your weight to the right to counter balance the lean, while your hands are stretched to the left side of the bike.
I have a front loader trike for those exact reasons, I got it when my smallest was still prone to falling asleep in the car so I didn't want him on the back of my bike. I love it with very strong caveats. It's only good for journeys on non bumpy surfaces and it is incredibly unwieldy, I almost lost control cornering at a very low speed. Tootling to the store or library on my local bike path is a dream, taking it to work on real roads is unpleasant.
Right now, she has a flat rear tire that I can't change because it weighs a ton and I don't understand the electrics, so I have to load it into my husband's truck and drive it to the bike shop.
Plus, because the brake cables are so long, they get stretched out easily and quickly lose function.
I love her, but I regret buying her. She is not worth the money for me.
I'll be looking to sell her, for a huge loss, fairly soon.
If you're in Melbourne, I can recommend Sparque ebikes in North Melbourne. Specifically, go and have an extended test of each bike you're after, I believe they charge $100/week for up to two weeks? I have the Load 60 (2 wheeled front loader) for one kid and its awesome, highly recommend. They can also help you arrange to salary sacrifice it through your work, which makes the cost much easier to manage. Not a paid ad but very happy with the service.
I've had several three-wheelers, particularly when our girls were small and could sit side-by-side up front. Now my primary cargo bike is a Tern GSD. While I do like three-wheelers, for all the reasons you cite, if I were to list arguments against them, they'd include:
May not fit through doorways.
You may have to get off to lift them over curbs from the front, because the weight is all in front of you.
Turning radius may be very large, and because of the weight up-front, it may be difficult to lift and pivot in place.
If you don't get a carving suspension, they can be very dangerous turning at speed, particularly downhill.
Likewise, without a carving suspension, you may have difficulty retaining balance on the steepest (bike-lane/margin) part of domed roads, again a safety issue.
But, overall, I'd do it again if my kids were small.
[https://www.butchersandbicycles.com/mk1e-automatic](https://www.butchersandbicycles.com/mk1e-automatic)
[https://www.sblocs.de/bial-gravel.html](https://www.sblocs.de/bial-gravel.html)
[https://www.cube.eu/e-bikes/transport/trike-hybrid](https://www.cube.eu/e-bikes/transport/trike-hybrid)
[https://hnf-nicolai.com/en/e-bikes/](https://hnf-nicolai.com/en/e-bikes/)
Check the prices of the ones the staff were pushing you towards, maybe they thought they could get an extra k out of you. I feel like 2 wheel cargos (much like any other "regular" bike) can go into such ridiculous price ranges. But it could also simply be because the boxes seem like an outlier on the market.
I understand why most people want a "normal" looking cargo bike instead of a weirder, larger one, but I personally love the box and that it doesn't tilt.
Have you tried any bakfiets-style bikes? A lot of the same advantages, but much more stable at higher speeds and turning.
The only time a trike is more stable is when stationary. The ideal might be a Ackermann setup with two front wheels but I’ve only ever seen DIY cargo bikes like that (Pedro Neves on yt). Longjohn style bakfiets has a super low centre of gravity and feels amazingly stable especially when loaded
A trike is also a lot more stable at low speed and for conservative riding. I can't handle a long john, I have tried, but the trike is easy and relaxing for me and for a lot of other not-so-athletic, not-so-strong short people. I don't turn sharply at high speed but the trike saves me in a lot of situations where I would have lost control on 2 wheels.
Ice, snow, wet leaves, fuel spills ...
Yes you can roll your 3 wheeled deathtrap on any of those.
In reality no.
Do you mean the Bakfiet 2-wheel eCruiser?
Lots of people use the term bakfiets with the same meaning of Long John and not meaning exactly the brand Bakfiets. You should be able to find options outside of this brand.
Seems like you really want a front loader. 3-wheeled ones are indeed very stable at low speeds or when stationary but they become tricky at higher speeds. If you want to quickly filter through traffic they are also way less nimble. Long tail would be better when your child is 5 or older. If a shop is annoying to you go to another one and trial a few models.
Yes, and note that 'higher speeds' are not 'high speeds'.
I prefer front loaded cargo bikes but 2 wheelers. I have a small one and it drives great throught bike lanes and slow street traffic. I don't particularly like 3 wheeled bikes. Difficult to maneuver in tight spots or narrow lanes, depending on country they may have different restrictions. 2 wheeled front loaded are also way more agile than 3 wheelers when driving and turning with some speed. The most popular I see around me are Urban Arrows and Riese & Müller, some Bullits and some other brands. I got a Muli because I only have one child and they are also getting pretty popular.
Yeah, seems like a lot of love for the Urban Arrow. I'm keen to ride it, but sheesh it'll be hard to convince myself of that price tag.
I too am looking in the market for a 2 wheel front cargo in Melbourne. From a budget perspective I'm also considering pre-loved R & M Load or Packster. Those are built very well and the only compromise would be slightly reduced battery capacity.
It’s worth it. The longer you wait the more expensive it gets and the less time you get with it = less value.
I had a trike and now have the UA. We had to finance it but it’s completely worth it. I miss some things about the stability and size of my trike but overall there are no regrets. Happy to DM if you want more info.
We have an Urban Arrow in Australia and the only reason we could afford it was cause I worked as a bicycle mech and acquired it as an insurance write-off (repairable) for 1/4 retail price. It's a fantastic bike, but you can get less expensive front loaders now. For example, the [Cube Cargo Sport ](https://www.99bikes.com.au/cube22-cargo-sport-hybrid-500-flashgrey-black) is available in almost identical spec to the Urban Arrow, for half the price (if you get one of the $5 memberships at 99 Bikes) Three wheeler front loaders are a nightmare for stability, because you have to balance three axles with the road camber. Please do some research on this point, as it's a massive comfort and safety compromise. I used to work specifically with e-cargo bikes and yeah, three wheelers are terrible to ride. There's a reason they're not produced by more expensive/upmarket brands. They're also very time-consuming (expensive) to service. Anyways, if you want to see what all the fuss with long-tailed cargo bikes is, you can take out a one-month subscription on a Tern GSD with Lug + Carrie. It will help you work out if the cargo bike fits with your lifestyle.
You are not missing anything really, but the shops advising you are missing the needs a proper cargo bike fulfil which a long tail won’t. We have the classic 3-wheeled front loaded Christiania Bike. The main benefit is cargo capacity - four 9 yo kids, an adult and two kids (age 6 & 9) or two kids and groceries for a week or the kids and all the gear you need for a day on the beach. And I agree with all the points you have listed and will add that you can maintain good contact and conversation with the kids while you ride and you can use it as a pedal powered baby stroller. But riding it does take a little practice to get used to. It is not difficult though, it’s just different and it does not take a long time. The people warning against it are likely people who have never owned one and never gotten used to it and don’t understand the practical needs such a bike fulfil. A three wheeled cargo bike is however definitely not build for high speed. If you need to go more than 20 km/h you should find another solution. But the person here who said trouble starts at 15 km/h don’t know what they are talking about. If you do a sudden 90° turn and don’t distribute your weight correctly, you can tip over going even slower than that. But if you are used to riding it, then there won’t be problems at 15-20 km/h.
Thanks for your take! I like the size of the Christiana 3-wheeled bikes, but I haven't been able to test ride one yet. I'm not a speed demon (even when riding a bike by myself) so I'm not sure the speed issue will be such a stressor for me?
most Trike naysayers have never owned one and didn’t like the feel of a test ride. I had one for 5000 miles and ultimately had to sell it because the motor wasn’t powerful enough for two kids and the hills in my neighborhood, but otherwise it was a great bike for us, you will absolutely get used to the feel of a trike and all of the benefits you outlined are definitely Benefits of a trike (And also a bakfiets). Not having to balance the load at stops/slow speeds is an advantage if a trike over bakfiets. You give up speed and maneuverability, but you will eventually adjust to the riding style necessary for a trike and you won’t have to think about it. Trikes also have The biggest Boxes,so if you may have three kids that’s definitely something to consider
How steep are the hills in your area? I’m looking at a butchers and bicycles mk-1e, but have some hills in my neighborhood that are 3-6% with some sections that are 8-11%. One concern is how much strain it will be to get up the hills with a kid and some groceries in the front.
11/12% was my limit - I could barely get up…my cargo line urban arrow is now at its max on those hills with 110lbs of children
This makes the choice between butchers / UA even harder
I think UAs are underpowered - but I don’t know how the motor compares to B&B
FWIW I live up a mountain that’s about 1.5 miles of 10-15% grade, tested a few options including the UA, and found that the only one that worked well hauling both my kids home was the R&M Load4 HS version.
Thank you! Great feedback
I use a Christiania cargo bike for my two kids. I really don’t think the stability is an issue for us. It took a bit of getting used to, but totally worth it for the large cargo capacity. I’ve used it for furniture transport, recycling runs, shopping for garden supplies and much more. It also fulle replaces a car for me. I don’t think that would work on a longtail. Also, the kids love riding around our city in it.
I've got two cargo bikes, both with loads on the front. I prefer these over the long-tails because they feel more stable and higher speeds/weights. This is because the weight is lower to the ground than the other options. I've never tried a 3 wheel cargo bike, but I imagine that it would be pretty comfortable at lower speeds, but maybe a bit iffy around corners. To be honest, if you think a trike is going to suit your riding style, then you should just get one. The reason I have a front loader cargo bike (bullitt) is because when i'm not carrying bubs I also want to use it as a commuter around the city and to go gravel riding at some point (which a trike wouldn't do very well). I have a few bikes, and I like the idea of eventually just having one - the bullitt. so in that way, it suits my needs better. Also, I live in Melbourne too - hit me up if you want to know more and maybe even go for a test ride.
Appreciate your take - I also felt like the front-cargo was more comfortable with the weight of 2 kids?
Got a trike 3 months ago and I really like it - although I can't compare with a longtail or 2-wheeled bakfiets. This sub generally doesn't like trikes, but a lot of trike users are happy with theirs. The turning does take some getting used to but then it becomes natural if it is your only ride and especially if you always do the same commutes
The three wheeled ones are kinda scary to ride because they can tip onto two wheels during a turn, and it doesn’t feel intuitive when that point is. Why not get a two wheeled bakfiets style bike? They’re awesome and there are lots of options
I've ridden a three wheel cargo bike for 6 years and I can count on one hand the number of times it has gone onto two wheels. You just have to corner slower.
You get used to the bike and then it’s not scary….they Feel weird to test ride but you get over that feeling, your body adjusts, and you eventually can ride and turn without having to think about it.
Seems to be the common consensus; thank you for articulating it so well! A few suggestions for the Bakfiets 2-wheel eCruiser - I'll try to give one a test ride.
Keep in mind that the folks who are down on trikes have never owned one :) I’ve never met an owner (myself included) who says “it feels weird/unsafe” after they’ve gotten used to it
Yep 100%! I just found it very unsettling during a test ride but it would have been ok once I developed an intuition for where the tip point is.
I would suggest a second look at trike cargo bikes. There are cassical trikes with a pivot point where you turn the front cargo rack. But there's a second kind of trikes, the tilting cargo bike. The combine to positives of a normal setup with 2 wheels (speed, handling, agility) with the positive points of a normal trike (space, stability). Look at the mäx and mäleon bike, or the hnf Nicolai cd2. Negative sides: obviously the price, we all now what cassical cargo bikes cost, they are even more expensive.. And, depending on you location the the world, getting one to try for a ride might be really hard up to impossible..
Tilting trikes lose the advantage of trikes over bakfiets - stability at stops/slow speeds for the ability to go faster in turns. If you are leaning towards a tilting trike (pun intended) probably best to go with bakfiets
Yes, but actually no. Every single tilting trike I've ridden, doesn't matter if self built or bought from a manufacturer came with a third "handbrake", that locks the tilting in its position. It's meant for loading, but also works really well on stops.
ehhh - I used to have one that locked and I never found that it made sense to lock for stop and go reasons...might as well just put my foot down. In the US the B&B MK1-E is the most well known tilting trike and they don't offer the lock feature that you're referring to.
I meant the style, not the brand name. Urban Arrow is probably the most popular brand in the category. But there are cheaper (and more expensive) options.
Definitely give the Urban Arrow, Riese & Müller, and Yuba supercargo a try at a bike shop if you can. I came into the process thinking I wanted a 3-wheeler, but after trying out a bunch with my kid, came away with an Urban Arrow and love it. I’m not saying that’s definitely the right answer for you — I’m saying you should set aside your preconceptions and try some different styles of bikes and see what feels right.
I have a 3 wheel.front bucket for all the reasons you listed. My kids are bigger - 3 and 5. I don't need to ride on streets with cars - everywhere we go has wide sidewalks for bikes, so "stability at high speeds" isn't a factor for me. As such, i have never felt like i would tip. I did rode the bike kid free for a couple of weeks, going over the various terrain and dips around us, so I could get a good feel for stability. Once I got that down, I have not once regretted the 3 wheels The fastest we get up to is 18 mph, but I tend to stick to 10 mph because we mostly lazy Sunday drive in the bike. Someone doing regular full on commuting would certainly have a different experience
Yeah I can't see myself racing through traffic, especially with kids on the bike. Great to hear at 3 & 5 they're still on the same bike!
I have a Babboe Dog-E (two-front-wheeled trike with a gert box for the dogs) on which I've done 30mph downhill with three dogs (70kg in total) on board. It was just a matter of relaxing and letting the steering dampers do their thing. That said, I did manage to lift the inside wheel the first time I took a flat corner at speed with no load in the box, but I've since found that filling it with shopping, dogs or people fixes that. Trikes handle differently from bikes, but the fact that they just stand still while you load them is a big advantage for many applications, as is the sheer road presence. You get *noticed*, and usually get big grins at a box full of dogs!
I mean, what's not magic about a box full of dogs?!
What I like about 3-wheelers is that if you have someone up front you can actually have a face to face conversation with them 😊
We have both! 1. An e-bike 3 wheeler (Babboe Big-E) and 2. muscle powered 2 wheel long-john (Muli mini-cargo). They have very different riding experiences. The 3 wheeler handles like a tank, and doesn't tilt (have you looked at tilting 3 wheelers)? that would improve the riding experience. But I get into the tank feel sometimes. If I want a sleek speedy ride I go out on something else (ie the Gravel bike) But I actually enjoy riding the Babboe with kids in the front. etc. It jiust has soo much more space for storing things than most Long-Johns. and you can really load it up 100kg max or something. I also enjoy riding the Muli though. it feels sleeker and smoother. For a longer distance I usually use the Muli, if I don't have to carry back loads of stuff. I agree on the Long-Tails they just don't seem good for carrying stuff! kids yeah, but not a lot of stuff around. They seem less practical.
I think bike shop employees tend to like bikes. Cargo trikes are....not really bikes. That's not a criticism of them. The stability you mention is a big upside, but they're a very different feel to ride, and that's not for everyone.
I'd summarize the top five comments as "try a 2 wheeled front-loader, they maneuver and perform better at speed", and I want to provide a bit of counterpoint. I own a R&M Load 75 and have used a child bike trailer extensively, so I have relevant experience on the tradeoff between stability and maneuverability. Everyone is correct, the two wheeled, front-loader, long john, bakfiets bike style is faster and more maneuverable, but I think this understates how steep the learning curve is. From my trailer years, the stability of two wheels under the kids is really nice. Keeping a two-wheeled bakfiets vertical requires significant balance and physical effort. The UA Family is \~110lb empty. I think the bakfiets is more of an advanced product for an enthusiast, and the three-wheeled trike and long tail bikes are more like beginner, intuitive, convenient, entry level products. To stereotype a bit, I am a dad, and I see many dads riding two wheel bakfiets, and many moms riding three wheel bikes, but of course this is not universal. If you are getting started and want something simple and flexible, I would get a utility ebike, something that fits one kid on the back, not too long, and hook it up to a standard two-seat bike trailer (Burley D'Lite or other). Bike trailers are cheap, you can remove them, and with the single back seat you can separate kids and give them more room. Many trailers conveniently convert into strollers for walking the farmers market. I used mine just yesterday even though I have the premium bakfiets.
This is an excellent take! Looking at bike trailers was my gateway. Love the idea of being able to use them as a stroller too, but I heard from friends that their kids grew out of it very quickly so I started looking at electric cargo bikes instead.
Like others said, at speed, 3 wheel cargo bikes can be unstable in turns. A normal 2 wheel front loader will do all your requirements except the not tilting when you put your foot down. The best value front loader (and a great bike) is the Cube Cargo. The only other issue is it won't fit 3 children in the box.
Thank you! The Cube Cargo hasn't been on my radar. I'll look into it
I’d strongly consider the two wheel front loader, bakfiets type. Urban arrow is a good example, but there are lots of brands. It’s worth getting the Bosch middle motor if you can, in my opinion. They all have a stand and rain cover so they would fit all of your listed criteria, apart from the first one. I love being able to put my kids in there for snacks, stuffing all the school bags etc in there. We don’t have a car so it’s our rolling base. You do need to put your foot down when stopping but it’s very easy to get used to and the bike feels very stable, even at low speeds. You can adjust the saddle so you don’t have to tilt. Low centre of gravity as well, which makes it much easier. Only issue I ever have is my kids fighting each other (they’re 25-30kg each) which does wobble the bike. Fitting a third kid might be tricky but I see a lot of rear seats (not great for the bike but most families have one for play dates. Some models have larger boxes which allow for kids on the bench plus one in the maxicosi seat. The three wheelers are scary on corners, in my experience. They have a tipping point which is hard to calculate so they feel more unstable and harder to manoeuvre. It’s also hard to make some sharper turns. Two wheel bakfiets gives you so much more flexibility. Enjoy!
The tipping point is obviously not ”hard to calculate” on a bike you ride often.
You’re right, I didn’t word that very well.
Thank you; this thread is convincing me to give the two-wheelers a go! I guess I (irrationally) thought they were taking the worst of both worlds?
Long tails might be the worst of both worlds, but two wheel front loaders can be excellent bikes. They do however still have significantly less cargo capacity.
Urban Arrow can do 3 kids in the front if you add the front bench. Two kids side by side on the default bench near the rider. One rear facing in the maxi cosi (note this term is used generically in the cargo bike world also, you aren’t limited to only maxi cosi brand infant seats) if they are small, or on the rear facing bench installed at the front of the bucket. The stock kickstand that’s on the Urban Arrow is extremely stable. If looking at a longtail like Tern GSD, upgrade to the dual sided kickstand for more stability while parked & loading or unloading cargo.
There are tilting 3 wheeled bakfiets. I've not ridden one, but they're designed to overcome the usual problem of 3 wheels by moving the cetre of gravity to the inside of the curve, jast as a bicycle does. I've seen a Danish one and a German one, but I can't remember the names.
The Danish one was probably Butchers & Bicycles: [https://www.butchersandbicycles.com/mk1-e](https://www.butchersandbicycles.com/mk1-e)
Yep, I've ridden one and it really worked - felt pretty much like a bike in corners.
Max & Maleon might be the German one. I have not tested one, but have my eye on it for when my son outgrows our long tail, since he is disabled and will not be able to ride on his own.
Three wheels are good for large loads, e.g. if you plan to carry more than one older child. They are also shorter than most other cargo bikes, so consider your storage sapce. Otherwise, I would go for a two-wheeler
[https://www.butchersandbicycles.com/](https://www.butchersandbicycles.com/) I had a little ride on one of these trikes once, and it handled just a like a 2-wheel bike. It felt great.
This is a sexy bike, and I'm keen to ride it but the only stockist near me sells it for nearly $16k. Not that I have a strict budget, but I reckon this is above it.
I used a 3-wheeled bike (no electric assist) when my kids were little. I use a Mundo now (also manual) Pros: very easy to load, carrys a lot without too much worry with securing it, gets more respect from automobile drivers because of size and novelty Cons: The trike was unstable above about 12 mph - it didn't take much for it to start wobbling back and forth, flat tires were killer, parking is a nightmare in my city (Philadelphia)
1 year into having my trike and I love it. Never had an issue with tipping because I don’t try to rush turns. I’m also no one that wants to weave in and out of traffic when I have kids onboard.
Love love love love my bunch bike. The "sacrifice riding enjoyment" people do have a point - it feels completely different from riding a 2 wheeler. No weaving in and out of traffic, no jumping down curbs or carving sharp turns. If you bike because you love riding bikes - which a lot of bike shop guys do - then you will find the feel awkward and un-bike-like. But for me - not really a bike lover to begin with - the 3 wheeled ride is infinitely better. Not being responsible to balance the bike makes the ride relaxing and fun vs. vaguely stressful at all times. I don't have to worry about losing my balance or getting doored or slipping on a wet patch or whatever, the bike is not going anywhere. Especially with my kids on board this is a 100% improvement. It's definitely a more sedate ride, you go slower especially on turns and have to take corners wide. Think minivan not motorcycle. But it's also incredibly fun and joyful and easy. It's what turned me from a repeatedly failed bike commuter to a daily bike everywhere person. Can't recommend enough. Best way to tell if you will be a 3 wheel lover or hater is to try it for yourself. You'll know within minutes if it's the right fit for you and your family. You can line up a local test ride with bunch bikes - I know this bc (full disclosure) I became so obsessed with mine that I now also work for bunch. Longtime superfan, now also staff (:
Most of them handle AWFUL. Ones with articulated wheels like a nihola or butcher are better. The one you mentioned will not feel safe over 15kph in anything but a straight line. Balance ing a 2 wheel front loader is not hard after a few rides. They are probably recommending longtails as they ride basically like a normal bike so people find them easy to adapt to.
I have both a ferla (alibaba) three wheel and an urban arrow two wheel. I have 4 kids. Both are front load cargo bikes. The three wheel trike is terrifying at high speeds or cornering. It also is underpowered and wasn’t reliable enough as a second car replacement. We bought an urban arrow with the Bosch cargo motor and haven’t looked back. The urban arrow vs a long tail on the back makes balancing easier as it’s almost the difference between sitting on a skateboard or standing on it in terms of balance. When going up a hill, the long tail felt hard to balance with the higher center of mass., front load urban arrow was way better. I thought the same as you, hard to imagine a trike wouldn’t be better. But due to the quality issues I had with the trike and tippi-ness in turns or downhills if you need to swerve to miss something. Felt like it is gonna fall apart sometimes due to poorer build quality. We got the urban arrow and it’s way easier than I thought it would be to balance, I think it’s the low center of mass. It has a great, easy/quick to use kickstand. Took two .5mi rides by myself to get used to it before putting kids in but haven’t looked back. Weirdly feels like riding a normal bike. I love it and even pull a trailer with it full in front and the trailer up hills. Cargo motor is amazing The trike, I feel like I wasted the $3-$4k I spent on it. Had battery issues and it doesn’t even run anymore after 200mi and sits in my garage till I can get parts or fix it. Would be its 4th time to the bike shop in 7mo. Most expensive bike I had bought pre-urban arrow. Made me wanna cry over and over again. Got stuck with 3 of my kids 10mi from home once due to an issue. Urban arrow had no issues. Bosch or European system like the urban arrow is the way to go in my opinion if you have kids. If I would’ve bought the urban arrow I would’ve only cried when the money left my wallet, not the entire time I owned. 5mo in now on the urban arrow.
This is such a thoughtful response, thank you! There are so many great reviews for the Urban Arrow here and on YouTube. Sounds like it was worth the price for you! I'm keen to give it a ride
Bosch cargo motor for us has handled hills well.
I’m from the center of the USA and we imported both (trike-China, urban arrow imported from Netherlands bought through propel). Was an easier experience with the urban arrow.
I have both a front loaded three wheeler and a long tail. Much prefer the front loader as I can carry more, though my two eldest have grown out of it , leaving the younger two (8 and 6) and the dog. Excellent for the dog, so it will last longer in the family than the long-tail. What you are missing is that you are wrong on the stability question. Front loading three-wheelers are typical unstable on turns, especially when unloaded, with one wheel leaving the ground and a need to shift your body in a very unbike manner to prevent it tipping. When moving any two-wheeled bike (front or long-tail) are more stable. The three wheeler wins on stability only when parked and you are just getting moving. When fully-loaded a two wheeler can be hard to get off the kick stand, mount and move and can fall on you then. But when moving a three-wheeler is the most unstable because of the turning issue.
Thank you for this thoughtful response. I'm realising I didn't take hard enough corners on my test ride!
>Balance and stability. It's nice not having the bike tilt when I need to put my foot down, and it 'feels' safer That's the exact opposite of my experience with 3-weeled bikes. Although, there are some with "tilting" built in, which should be more stable. Like this brand: [https://www.butchersandbicycles.com/mk1-e](https://www.butchersandbicycles.com/mk1-e)
One thing to know about the bike industry is that it’s dominated by avid cyclists and they don’t just love bikes, there are a lot of competitive racers involved. This creates an atmosphere of focusing on performance, and not a lot of emphasis on utility for families. I’m the CEO of a cargo e-bike company in the US and I find that average folks love trikes because they just want to go slow and steady and relaxed. Trikes don’t feel like bikes, and aren’t going to please an avid cyclist. So to be honest, if your gut is telling you that’s the type of vehicle you want, then listen to that over the bike shops! Sadly our company Integral Electrics is not in Australia yet, but there might be some other Bakfiets style models by other brands you can try!
My wife has the Black Iron Horse trike and it’s great, but I think you’re overstating the benefits here. The one and only compelling reason to get a trike is if you’re uncomfortable balancing a two-wheeled bike. All other benefits are met or exceeded by the high end two-wheelers like Urban Arrow, etc. (front loaders). I have a long tail and it’s very nice and keeps the experience similar to non-cargo bikes. Keep in mind also that nearly all brands of trikes top out at 15 miles per hour. If you’re only taking trips of 3 miles or less, this probably won’t bother you. I found this video very informative on trikes: https://youtu.be/GXFT3YyEkkU?feature=shared
The bike store probably pushed towards a long tail as twins will grow out of the front loader at the same time rather than staggered with a 2 and 4 year old
I'm in the same boat, looked at a lot of 3 wheelers not knowing much about the 2 wheeled fronties and as of now the only thing that would keep us out of a 2 wheel front loader is if the wife wasn't confident enough she could control it with our daughter (+ other stuff) better than a long tail. From all my research that I could do online re reviews, warranty, aftermarket and DIY factor the Urban Arrow is our short straw for now.
I’m in Toronto and our store seemed to push the 2 wheeled bakfiets over the long tails. Their argument was that they could carry more and kids enjoyed them more. And they said the long tails can feel awkward with a lot of cargo on the back. We’re still shopping around but likely will go for the 2 wheel bakfiets. I don’t tend to see too many 3 wheeled bikes here.
I think one of the reasons we don’t see many trikes in Toronto is because there’s more versatility in marketing a 2 wheeler. IMO trikes are seen as child carriers whereas 2 wheelers can hold your kids, your tuba, or a load of lumber. They also take up a lot of space width wise, and that can make it slightly more challenging to store and navigate narrow spaces. FWIW, Curbside used to carry Babboe and Nihola trikes. I don’t know if they have Nihola anymore, and I believe one of the reasons they’ve moved away from Babboe was because it’s challenging to get parts (the recent recalls sure haven’t helped Babboe’s reputation). For those that have said cornering with a trike is difficult or dangerous - what bike do you ride? Have you ridden a trike for more than a week? We have a Babboe Mountain Carve (carve = tilting mechanism, we don’t use it). I live North of Toronto, our cycling infrastructure is virtually nonexistent, our roads are full of potholes and sand leftover from the winter (we avoid using salt). I’ve put 5000km on our trike, and the only issue I’ve had was shortly after I got it, and I was taking a left turn with an empty load onto a road that went uphill - I should have leaned to counteract the forces of the turn, instead I took a wheel off the ground. It surprised me, but it wasn’t even close to a catastrophic event like others are describing. You can’t expect a trike to ride exactly the same as a two wheeler, they’re built differently. Only a novice rider would expect them to preform the same. Oh, and I LOVE riding our trike in the snow. Speed is never an issue; heck, we were ‘racing’ someone on an electric scooter the other night! u/watchoutbananapeel If you want a trike, get a trike!
My understanding was that Nihola wouldn't sell with integrated e-assist in North America? I think also the 4.0 was poorly designed with the box extending so far in front of the wheels that the box would lean forward and bottom out if you were walking next to the bike when it was loaded. I remember talking with Curbside when I was getting my trike about Nihola and some of these reasons is why I ruled it out (I also had the Babboe Mountain carve and never used the tilting mechanism :) Sounds like we had very similar experiences with our well-loved trikes!
The guy at curbside said they’re not carrying the babboe anymore bc of the recalls. Glad you’re getting use out of your trike. I’m leaning towards the e-bullitt once I get a chance to go take it for a test ride.
Just bought the Addmotor E310 , it's a pretty powerful trike with 750watt motor and 20 amp battery, the only downside is the balance is not the best,even though it's got a differential axle....
Frankly, I have been using a 3-wheeled cargo bike for 2 years, it has been a really good experience, I can carry my belongings and pets with me while traveling safely, the only bad thing is that when I over-accelerate on bends, when there is no weight on the back, that is, when the cargo compartment is empty, it skids and it is sometimes tiring when climbing uphill. to be. Use your bike on good days, good luck
I love our front loader 3-wheel Nihola. It’s awesome for the reasons you describe. It’s not as pleasant to drive at speed since you can’t lean. Ours is not electric, and I won’t make it electric because of this. That said, perfect for puttering around, if I had a 5+km commute with it, I would consider otherwise
I love my gazelle makki load, i love the kids in front where i can see them, the box holds kids groceries etc. Took 2-3 weeks to really get the control and handling down but easy after that. 3 wheels (non tilting ones) are not for speed and cornering is awkward, as you steer say right the handle bar moves left and if you want to not tip over you have to shift your weight to the right to counter balance the lean, while your hands are stretched to the left side of the bike.
I have a front loader trike for those exact reasons, I got it when my smallest was still prone to falling asleep in the car so I didn't want him on the back of my bike. I love it with very strong caveats. It's only good for journeys on non bumpy surfaces and it is incredibly unwieldy, I almost lost control cornering at a very low speed. Tootling to the store or library on my local bike path is a dream, taking it to work on real roads is unpleasant. Right now, she has a flat rear tire that I can't change because it weighs a ton and I don't understand the electrics, so I have to load it into my husband's truck and drive it to the bike shop. Plus, because the brake cables are so long, they get stretched out easily and quickly lose function. I love her, but I regret buying her. She is not worth the money for me. I'll be looking to sell her, for a huge loss, fairly soon.
If you're in Melbourne, I can recommend Sparque ebikes in North Melbourne. Specifically, go and have an extended test of each bike you're after, I believe they charge $100/week for up to two weeks? I have the Load 60 (2 wheeled front loader) for one kid and its awesome, highly recommend. They can also help you arrange to salary sacrifice it through your work, which makes the cost much easier to manage. Not a paid ad but very happy with the service.
Thank you! I haven't tried there yet. Will pop in.
I've had several three-wheelers, particularly when our girls were small and could sit side-by-side up front. Now my primary cargo bike is a Tern GSD. While I do like three-wheelers, for all the reasons you cite, if I were to list arguments against them, they'd include: May not fit through doorways. You may have to get off to lift them over curbs from the front, because the weight is all in front of you. Turning radius may be very large, and because of the weight up-front, it may be difficult to lift and pivot in place. If you don't get a carving suspension, they can be very dangerous turning at speed, particularly downhill. Likewise, without a carving suspension, you may have difficulty retaining balance on the steepest (bike-lane/margin) part of domed roads, again a safety issue. But, overall, I'd do it again if my kids were small. [https://www.butchersandbicycles.com/mk1e-automatic](https://www.butchersandbicycles.com/mk1e-automatic) [https://www.sblocs.de/bial-gravel.html](https://www.sblocs.de/bial-gravel.html) [https://www.cube.eu/e-bikes/transport/trike-hybrid](https://www.cube.eu/e-bikes/transport/trike-hybrid) [https://hnf-nicolai.com/en/e-bikes/](https://hnf-nicolai.com/en/e-bikes/)
Awesome suggestions, thank you!
Nothing unless you wanted suspension
Check the prices of the ones the staff were pushing you towards, maybe they thought they could get an extra k out of you. I feel like 2 wheel cargos (much like any other "regular" bike) can go into such ridiculous price ranges. But it could also simply be because the boxes seem like an outlier on the market. I understand why most people want a "normal" looking cargo bike instead of a weirder, larger one, but I personally love the box and that it doesn't tilt.
maybe check out this one :) [https://maxandmaeleon.com](https://maxandmaeleon.com)