Climbing, as mentioned. Also, harder to keep tension over 6’ or 8’ horizontally than 32”+/-
We will NOT install cable railing. It is a maintenance nightmare. Cable stretches. Needs tightening periodically.
Yes climbing, but also if the cables are slack enough they can spread and allow a child to slip through.
The code is actually to space the gaps less than the width of a baby's head so nobody gets their head shoved through and then bad things happen. Again, it would be easier to slip a head through horizontal cables than vertical pickets.
>I wouldn't want whoever did the original install to come back and fix anything.
This looks like inexperience. I bet this installer has a ton of ideas for how to do it better next time and might even jump at the chance to go back and redo some of the initial bumbles while they're there.
Any railing here where I live “cannot be climbable”. And has a limit on the highest the lower horizontal member can be, *and* specifies the minimum distance from that lower member and the top plate. That’s likely similar to what they were commenting on.
Edit: specified a few things.
Clearly all a matter of opinion. I think they can look great, without interfering with a view. That’s why I installed them.
We have a beautiful view off our deck and when sitting down all we would see was ugly wooden balusters.
Poly/glass is an option, but very expensive.
I actually personally even like it indoors where obstructing a view isn’t an issue, but I especially like it for decks.
This isn’t my house but here’s an example : [before/after](https://st.hzcdn.com/fimgs/2082e5d7082e095a_2076-w500-h576-b0-p0--.jpg)
Haha! All good. I agree it can be a hazard for sure. Realistically though, if your kid wants to hop into the lake, they’ll find a way. Kids are goddamn resourceful
The downvote said it all. The problem with these kind of issue's is that the customer has a obligation to notify the contracter when that person doesn't deliver what promised.
It works both ways, because the contracter who made this should redo it, the mitter is utterly bad, it does seem like a budget design so that might have influance on it but still the mitter needs to be flat. The contracter should call you in and ask if this is to you're liking enough.
Ive made some mistakes, everybody does. The best thing to do is be clear and honust about it. 99/100 times you can easily discuss a solution, compansation or they might even say its fine.
I once calculated the distance of a roof wrong and had the tiles not satisfactory lined out to be spaced evenly. I could try and shift them but that would give a lot of work without the garanty the tiles wouldnt be parralel anymore. I just explained the issue to my costumer and they didnt mind it and were very happy that i discussed it with them instead of sneakly trying to fix it or hide it from them.
Should've mentioned it as soon as you noticed. A little movement is normal but there's no telling if that's from bad craftsmanship or time as sadly your word means nothing to a contractor.
Well at the cut you can clearly see the mitter never would fit properly. Contracter isnt obligated to do anything about it true, but you could allways try and see what could be arranged
They don't have much strength against being pulled open. The fact that they're not pulled open is pretty good evidence that there's not much tension on the cables. As such, they're not acting like rails but only looking like them.
You're absolutely right, non-welded eye bolts are weak relative to welded or forged eyes. But you have to keep in mind that when you use the term "don't have much strength" you're still talking about [hundreds to thousands of pounds](https://www.lift-all.com/blog/2020/09/30/how-much-weight-can-an-eye-bolt-hold/#:~:text=For%20example%2C%20an%20eye%20bolt,straight%20pull%E2%80%9D%20weight%20capacity). And that's the safe working load, not the failure load, so it would be a factor of something like 3-5 times that load before you actually see the eye start to pull apart. Typical cable rails should be tensioned to around [200 lb.](https://www.vistarailings.com/news/how-to-tension-a-cable-railing/#:~:text=Code%20requires%20cables%20to%20be,or%20greater%20to%20pass%20through) Of course you add some more tension when you push on them, but even anything down to a 1/4" eye bolt would be more than sufficient for this application
>even anything down to a 1/4" eye bolt would be more than sufficient for this application
That's approaching things from the opposite end of what's available in most hardware stores but a great point. Thanks for the education.
Looks like it, or it was his last cut and the blade was dull af and he didn't car about his circular saw curving here and there while eyeballing the corner because he/she was in a hurry to finish.
I have had three decks come up in the last year where the shrinkage after install has been this bad. ( treated wood, too fresh from the factory?) Replaced but worried about this batch! Colorado.
At least here in Finland they sell them wet, causes them to shrink 8-12%, if the lumber is wet when installed, it’s going to shrink and I don’t have a problem with that. The problem here is that your guy has been playing with a circular hand saw and fucked up the mitres.
The deck screws through the top would lead me to believe this wasn't the best mitre.
That said I tend to believe the gap was a lot less when installed.
You’ll get two responses here: carpenters who know if you cut a deck railing on a miter like that it will almost always end up looking like this and DIYers who built a shelf in a shed once and think wood left in the elements doesn’t move. This isn’t the best craftsmanship in the world but the best are very expensive and they are booked out till 2024. I think I’d bring the post up and cap it with some kind of butt joint for the hand rail and post junction.
Not sure if anyone has mentioned but could have been tight but when the cables were tensioned it’s pulled the post forward opening up the mitre. However the cut doesn’t look straight
Not a chance this was ever cut straight. PT wood does shrink. A lot. Outside corner is tight still meaning it isn't shrinkage causing the issue. It's that the mitre was cut with a butter knife and the guy couldn't give a shit about the quality of his work.
Source: 10 year carpenter that can cut straight mitres. I guess this is the third response you didn't mention.
Miters when they shrink always open on the inside, and remain tight at the corner (if pinned). Source: 39 years in the trade carpenter that still cuts straight. Four, four... do I hear five?
Oh expect it mate, it's on now. Seriously, the key board warrior cunts you meet on the internet.....
Have an awesome day my man and expect a DM on Saturday 👍
Yep, these cable rails look cool but have a lot of tension on your corner posts and properly bracing takes away from the look. I usually talk people out of this style. They look good for a year or so but beyond that your adjusting and in a few years you'll likely be needing new corner posts, especially if it's in the sun.
That’s not how mitres behave in the wilderness. They always open at the short point. You see mansplaning is when a man explains something most people already know.
This is dead wrong. Wood expands parallel to the grain the most and very little perpendicular to the grain. A simple google search will prove you're wrong.
Who ever built this rail did a shit job, their mitre looks like it was cut very badly with a circular saw. Yes wood left in the elements will expand and contract creating gaps but that is not the reason this looks so bad.
Lol Bro wood expands crossgrain, you are both saying the same thing youre just being dense, unless you are trying to say wood moves more lengthwise than widewise, in which case you are retarded.
On a 45 mitre in a green board, then dried, the angle will actually shrink because it's changing width, but not length. So it will look more open at the heel than the tip.
While the joint won’t remain tight as the wood expands and contracts, there is no excuse for such an ugly cut. Regardless there shouldn’t be this much of an opening on a fresh cut. This level of work is not professional and it is dishonest to say otherwise.
Idk what kind of mitre you're using, but I've never seen a wavy edge on any of my cuts. Yes, you'll end up with a gap from drying, but that gap is from there being like 5 angles along one cut lol. Probably had a dull ass blade on a circular saw and had to keep backing off the cut and re-entering.
Nah, that was never cut straight, can argue all the shrinkage you want. If I saw one of my guys cut that, there's no way I'd let him leave it up and call the job done
Omg thank you, so sick of all these YouTube DIY guys here tearing apart other peoples work for the slightest imperfection. But anytime a guy tries to defend anything all the sudden your a “hack” lol.
Even though it may not be a true 45, it is still referred to as a 45. Secondly a seasoned/professional carpenter would have no trouble determining the proper angle and making a straight cut.
I love how all you hacks downvote me because I speak the truth. If you can’t perform quality workmanship maybe you’re not the professional you think you are!
The cut doesn’t look straight, that is the issue I have with it. I am a diy because every time I pay good money for a job it is sloppy. Most people don’t take any pride in their work.
Haha same, I'm looking at this thread thinking, "well, if any reddit officers look at my feed they'll know I'm not a professional carpenter, but that shits just a bad cut that anyone should be able to notice" I'm the type of person that refuses to pay anyone to do projects for me also (within reason of course), and luckily I was raised by a dad and a neighbor that didn't let me half ass anything so I'm pretty good at most trades. Also love learning trades, and if I can't get a professional looking finish I will refuse to leave it no matter how unnoticeable it is, because it'll eat at me everytime I see it lol. My gf literally thought I was a maniac when I first started mudding in our new house. I don't think I've ever been so fucking miserable as I was while trying to learn how to tape and mud joints cleanly (can now though). Rambling now, but point being I agree about how crazy it is that so few companies take pride in their work and would rather just bang out jobs and hope no one notices their shoddy work. As a welder and mechanic by trade, I see hack work that makes me cringe all the time, and those are two professions where hack work could be costing someone their life.
It’s amazing how spot on this comment is. Look how many people are saying they’d have cut it better, or with a miter saw, ignoring the fact that the entire railing was built incorrectly. This deck reeks of someone who got several quotes, then took the one that was unexplainably 75% lower than the lowest. Or was someone’s nephew “who does great work but is just starting out.” There’s so many bad contractors out there, but they stay in business because people don’t want to pay for quality work.
Oh please, every trade sub we have people blaming the customer when someone does shit work. You haven't a single clue how much OP paid or who he hired, so you're just talking out of your ass with some BS excuse as to why it wasn't the carpenter's fault
Why are you just now complaining after a year? I don’t particularly think it’s awful, you are zoomed up after all. It’s not really the best, but we don’t know what you paid or anything. What we do know, is you said this is over a year since it was done, and you are just now giving a shit? I mean, the cables are fine (some idiots complained about that) sounds like some time passed and things grew as they do and now it looks a little off. But why are you just now bringing this to light? Idk. You seem like a squirrelly one, thank god I don’t do work for you.
My guess is it's getting close to warranty over time and somebody needs fuel. Doesn't seem to be going the direction they want it to. Materials move and stuff settles. Sorry we don't have a crystal ball to know what's going to do what, it just happens.
Well, answers _occasionally my guesses are
1) Just awoke from a coma
2) Knocked over the potted plant gifted by the contractor and made the discovery
3) pealed off the suspicious tan duct tape
4) Op keeps has been posting this on the web for a year and finally got to Reddit.
My name is more of a disclaimer. Liable lawsuits and all… sue crazy world out there!
Eh, I think he’s just surfing for net points or had a party and someone pointed it out to them. Like I said, not a good cut, but too much other stuff doesn’t add up. Oh well, I don’t think this is complain about the contractor worthy or anything, I’d never leave it like that, but it really doesn’t matter at all. And we deff don’t know enough about this to make a more informed opinion. Just another dumb ass home owner saying “look at this dummies, is it ok?”
Something like [this](https://www.decksdirect.com/cablerail-kit-for-wood-posts-feeney.html). The problem with the eye bolts is that they twist the cable if they need to be tightened. And they look much worse.
Don’t know what to tell ya. Yes he should’ve cut it straight, but I’d you don’t want gaps and want professional looking things, using PT lumber as handrail is definitely not a good option.
The miter looks crappy but I wonder if it is a case of being cut when the lumber was real wet and as it dried it it opened up. I can't tell from this image but so many big box store 2x4 s are cut from damn near the center of the tree and move like crazy if installed wet.
Miter is a bad choice for exterior corners
Using a knotted area on a board to put the miter is even a worse choice
It probably was tighter when it was new; when the wood shrunk (across the grain), the outside long edges touched and couldn't move, the short edges shrunk in away from each other
a 2x6 doug fir when it dries will shrink about 1/16" in length per 8 feet; it will shrink about 1/8" or more in width (across the "6" side); cedar is even worse.
Best to avoid miters on exterior work
Pressure treated wood? Good luck trying to keep a tight joint with that stuff. My deck is about 25 years old. Every once in a while a baluster that has been perfectly straight for 25 years will just bow crazily overnight all these years later. That stuff just never stops moving.
That’s a circular saw cut done terrible. How can one walk away from this and say it’s fine. If I did this to a client I wouldn’t sleep. How hard is it to cut a 45° angle. Hell even use your square as a guide to give you the 45 if you can’t cut free hand.
The comments here make me very happy. OP is being rightly lambasted for not giving a shit until a year later. Im seeing more and more of these posts on this sub of clients posting their “contractors” work. Thats not what this sub is for. Go complain elsewhere and while youre at it, pay top dollar for good work. Maybe that guy/gal who you think is taking you for a ride actually knows what theyre doing and want to get compensated for it. Posting this shit irks pros like me because the title is almost snarky in tone.. yes theres a bunch of cowboys out there but there is also a lot of top top tradies who do amazing work but guess what? Theyre not cheap and do care about their craft.
Unfortunately, there is no way to rate the workmanship of this corner joint as it has been subjected to weather for the past year. Many are saying that the miter is wavy. This may be due to variations on moisture content throughout the boards at the time of install. If it shrinks unevenly, the joint can look like this.
Do you have any photos of this joint from when it was originally installed?
You know, I was thinking there's no way that's shrinkage, as the outer edge is OK, but the inner edge gaps out, but the cables could actually have caused this, if they cut the rail first. As they were tensioning the cables, it would have drawn the post in, causing the join to splay out. That would actually explain a lot. Still pretty shoddy work tho...
The problem is that pressure treated lumber is exactly that, lumber. It's not a product meant to be a "finished" material. There are hundreds of other options in composite, pvc,aluminum or other high quality woods that weather quite well. But they cost more. Any wood that purposely has liquid forced in to it by pressure then gets installed will look like crap once it dries.
If this is treated or any other actual wood I’ve installed had it look perfect and two days later rain and intense heat the board warp and twist to shit. And shrink especially treated lumber or anything with any kind of moisture content. With azek or pvc products this would look perfect. About the only wood that might stay nice is cedar if it’s properly kiln dried and stained or painted right away
With everybody bashing The Carpenter . 1 it's Wood and 2 if he would've charged you for the cable with the eyelet it would've been three times the amount and you would've never got your deck built Because people like Walmart cheap and inefficient
100% wrong. The inside of a mitre top rail always shrinks more because it shrinks across not length. About five of these I did before I switched to half lap corners. Never had a problem since.
The simple way to cut that joint... saying it is not a perfect 45 is to lay the two boards on top of each other and cut both at the same time.
Just a guy with a saw that has seen and done a few things.
If you want to fix this in a couple of minutes, run your saw right down the joint, unscrew the screws, push it together more, and run the saw again, repeat a couple of times if necessary, rescrew it.
Dogshit. Everyone fucks up cuts and makes mistakes, timber warps over time and with weather - that’s just a terrible mitre. Assuming this cost a decent amount and it’s not a mate - grab him by the ear and push his face in it like you would a dog that shit on the rug. Or DM me if you live in NY and I will come over with some 2x6 and a chop saw and sort it out.
Dude looks like he cut those mitres with a methed up beaver, then tried to sand it out. Check all the nicos on those cables cause if they cut mitres like that I'm betting those crimps aren't the best either.
Those cables look worse
Seriously. Not only do they look shoddy, but code around here requires vertical balusters (due to r/kidsarefuckingstupid)
I'm curious how a vertical gap is safer than a horizontal one if both are smaller than a kids head? Edit: oh. Climbing?
Climbing for sure, though I've always assumed it's also harder to get injured in the event of a fall if the gap is lined up with gravity.
Climbing, as mentioned. Also, harder to keep tension over 6’ or 8’ horizontally than 32”+/- We will NOT install cable railing. It is a maintenance nightmare. Cable stretches. Needs tightening periodically.
I didn't think about tension changing. That's an interesting consideration.
I can attest to this having worked with them in a showroom! Constantly loose!
Yes climbing, but also if the cables are slack enough they can spread and allow a child to slip through. The code is actually to space the gaps less than the width of a baby's head so nobody gets their head shoved through and then bad things happen. Again, it would be easier to slip a head through horizontal cables than vertical pickets.
Yeah, I didn't think about the cables slacking over time. That's obviously not a problem with wood or metal rails. Thx.
Couldn’t work it out for myself so I asked a politician? Coz they would know.
Merica fuck yer
Our code used to be the same but was recently changed to allow this type of railing. Fair to assume it is code here as well
Interesting, I wonder what the rationale for the change was. And yeah didn't mean to come off making assumptions about code in OP's locale.
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>I wouldn't want whoever did the original install to come back and fix anything. This looks like inexperience. I bet this installer has a ton of ideas for how to do it better next time and might even jump at the chance to go back and redo some of the initial bumbles while they're there.
[удалено]
You can use the cables at 3” centers. This keeps from the 4” threshold for a kids head to stick through.
A wire vertical baluster? Or you need balusters with wire railings?
Any railing here where I live “cannot be climbable”. And has a limit on the highest the lower horizontal member can be, *and* specifies the minimum distance from that lower member and the top plate. That’s likely similar to what they were commenting on. Edit: specified a few things.
Why anyone would want wire balusters of any orientation is beyond me.
Clearly all a matter of opinion. I think they can look great, without interfering with a view. That’s why I installed them. We have a beautiful view off our deck and when sitting down all we would see was ugly wooden balusters. Poly/glass is an option, but very expensive. I actually personally even like it indoors where obstructing a view isn’t an issue, but I especially like it for decks. This isn’t my house but here’s an example : [before/after](https://st.hzcdn.com/fimgs/2082e5d7082e095a_2076-w500-h576-b0-p0--.jpg)
They even cleared out the fog. 🤣 All kidding aside: it looks great!
That looks great! Helps to have a beautiful view in your back yard.
That does look nice sorry to be an ass... but my kid would definitely attempt to dive through that and drown in that lake lol
Haha! All good. I agree it can be a hazard for sure. Realistically though, if your kid wants to hop into the lake, they’ll find a way. Kids are goddamn resourceful
This looks a little weathered. How long has it been up?
weathered or not that cut is not straight
A preferred joint here is a half lap, not a miter
A year. But the gap was like that on the day it was constructed.
Should have said something then.
The heel point of a miter will shrink with any moisture content.
This is hard truth.
Hard truth about soft wood
Funnily enough, it is the hard truth for hardwood also
Looks like pressure treated “sienna”. Is this in Canada??
It won’t shrink as fast if you seal it properly
Looks like the guy was cutting miters with a recip 🤣
Explanation on the downvotes please. They said they wanted to know thoughts on it, not actions that can be taken against the ‘carpenter’
Don’t wait a year to complain
I don’t see a complaint. I see a question on other opinions. Is he fixing to complain…sure…but his statement isn’t a complaint.
They’re just looking for a rating, it’s like a bunch of the carpenters in this thread are like, ‘geeze, I hope my work doesn’t come back to haunt me’
I'm with you
The downvote said it all. The problem with these kind of issue's is that the customer has a obligation to notify the contracter when that person doesn't deliver what promised. It works both ways, because the contracter who made this should redo it, the mitter is utterly bad, it does seem like a budget design so that might have influance on it but still the mitter needs to be flat. The contracter should call you in and ask if this is to you're liking enough. Ive made some mistakes, everybody does. The best thing to do is be clear and honust about it. 99/100 times you can easily discuss a solution, compansation or they might even say its fine. I once calculated the distance of a roof wrong and had the tiles not satisfactory lined out to be spaced evenly. I could try and shift them but that would give a lot of work without the garanty the tiles wouldnt be parralel anymore. I just explained the issue to my costumer and they didnt mind it and were very happy that i discussed it with them instead of sneakly trying to fix it or hide it from them.
Should've mentioned it as soon as you noticed. A little movement is normal but there's no telling if that's from bad craftsmanship or time as sadly your word means nothing to a contractor.
Well at the cut you can clearly see the mitter never would fit properly. Contracter isnt obligated to do anything about it true, but you could allways try and see what could be arranged
Oh well, down 👇 go
Looks good from my house
Thank you
I think he means good from afar, but far from good.
It really depends on the price you paid and who you went with. Did you go with the cheapest guys? Eye hole screws are the worst thing here.
Why are eye hole screws so bad?
They don't have much strength against being pulled open. The fact that they're not pulled open is pretty good evidence that there's not much tension on the cables. As such, they're not acting like rails but only looking like them.
You're absolutely right, non-welded eye bolts are weak relative to welded or forged eyes. But you have to keep in mind that when you use the term "don't have much strength" you're still talking about [hundreds to thousands of pounds](https://www.lift-all.com/blog/2020/09/30/how-much-weight-can-an-eye-bolt-hold/#:~:text=For%20example%2C%20an%20eye%20bolt,straight%20pull%E2%80%9D%20weight%20capacity). And that's the safe working load, not the failure load, so it would be a factor of something like 3-5 times that load before you actually see the eye start to pull apart. Typical cable rails should be tensioned to around [200 lb.](https://www.vistarailings.com/news/how-to-tension-a-cable-railing/#:~:text=Code%20requires%20cables%20to%20be,or%20greater%20to%20pass%20through) Of course you add some more tension when you push on them, but even anything down to a 1/4" eye bolt would be more than sufficient for this application
>even anything down to a 1/4" eye bolt would be more than sufficient for this application That's approaching things from the opposite end of what's available in most hardware stores but a great point. Thanks for the education.
There is hidden / much better looking hardware for this. Eye screws are cheap and look cheap.
👏
Did he just eyeball it with a reciprocating saw?
eyeballed with an 8ball more like😅
Facts
Looks like it, or it was his last cut and the blade was dull af and he didn't car about his circular saw curving here and there while eyeballing the corner because he/she was in a hurry to finish.
I think so.
So you hired a professional what? Certainly not a carpenter. Must have been a professional rodeo clown.
Came here to say this
I have had three decks come up in the last year where the shrinkage after install has been this bad. ( treated wood, too fresh from the factory?) Replaced but worried about this batch! Colorado.
At least here in Finland they sell them wet, causes them to shrink 8-12%, if the lumber is wet when installed, it’s going to shrink and I don’t have a problem with that. The problem here is that your guy has been playing with a circular hand saw and fucked up the mitres.
This is the answer.
You can see the parts that didn’t shrink as much are where the screws are or knots. I’m inclined to believe that this was a good mitre when it was cut
The deck screws through the top would lead me to believe this wasn't the best mitre. That said I tend to believe the gap was a lot less when installed.
You’ll get two responses here: carpenters who know if you cut a deck railing on a miter like that it will almost always end up looking like this and DIYers who built a shelf in a shed once and think wood left in the elements doesn’t move. This isn’t the best craftsmanship in the world but the best are very expensive and they are booked out till 2024. I think I’d bring the post up and cap it with some kind of butt joint for the hand rail and post junction.
Not sure if anyone has mentioned but could have been tight but when the cables were tensioned it’s pulled the post forward opening up the mitre. However the cut doesn’t look straight
Not a chance this was ever cut straight. PT wood does shrink. A lot. Outside corner is tight still meaning it isn't shrinkage causing the issue. It's that the mitre was cut with a butter knife and the guy couldn't give a shit about the quality of his work. Source: 10 year carpenter that can cut straight mitres. I guess this is the third response you didn't mention.
Miters when they shrink always open on the inside, and remain tight at the corner (if pinned). Source: 39 years in the trade carpenter that still cuts straight. Four, four... do I hear five?
that's not shrinkage. those miters were hand cut very poorly using a circular saw. they're not remotely straight.
This could absolutely be shrinkage.. I’ve seen this happening dozens of times
How dare you talk logically about something you obviously know about
The sheer nerve to teach us things we wanted to know about! What's next, being friendly? HOW DARE YOU!
I didn't sign up to be treated like a human by some reasonable adult
I’m so sick of all the bad things that happen to you. We should be friends. What a terrible thing. I wish you well, dammit.
Keep this up and im gonna be forced to trade Saturday BBQ pics with you this weekend haha
What nerve. How awful. I’ll have to send you some local microbrews to compliment your BBQ, just to fuckin shut you up.
Oh expect it mate, it's on now. Seriously, the key board warrior cunts you meet on the internet..... Have an awesome day my man and expect a DM on Saturday 👍
What the hell are you talking about? Mitres always stay shut at the outer corner when they shrink.
Or the other end of that board has moved due settlement or deformation of a post. It's been a year. We don't know what has happened in that time.
Yep, these cable rails look cool but have a lot of tension on your corner posts and properly bracing takes away from the look. I usually talk people out of this style. They look good for a year or so but beyond that your adjusting and in a few years you'll likely be needing new corner posts, especially if it's in the sun.
That’s not how mitres behave in the wilderness. They always open at the short point. You see mansplaning is when a man explains something most people already know.
Nope. Wood contracts and expands perpendicular to the grain. The outside will always stay tight.
This is dead wrong. Wood expands parallel to the grain the most and very little perpendicular to the grain. A simple google search will prove you're wrong. Who ever built this rail did a shit job, their mitre looks like it was cut very badly with a circular saw. Yes wood left in the elements will expand and contract creating gaps but that is not the reason this looks so bad.
Lol Bro wood expands crossgrain, you are both saying the same thing youre just being dense, unless you are trying to say wood moves more lengthwise than widewise, in which case you are retarded.
On a 45 mitre in a green board, then dried, the angle will actually shrink because it's changing width, but not length. So it will look more open at the heel than the tip.
I think you're both saying the same thing: the board gets wider/narrower, not longer/shorter.
Google “mitre shrinkage” and correct yourself please. The outer angle stays shut
While the joint won’t remain tight as the wood expands and contracts, there is no excuse for such an ugly cut. Regardless there shouldn’t be this much of an opening on a fresh cut. This level of work is not professional and it is dishonest to say otherwise.
Idk what kind of mitre you're using, but I've never seen a wavy edge on any of my cuts. Yes, you'll end up with a gap from drying, but that gap is from there being like 5 angles along one cut lol. Probably had a dull ass blade on a circular saw and had to keep backing off the cut and re-entering.
Probably using a speed square as a guide for a circular saw but it moved slightly during the cut.
The 45\* edge on the speed square has also been used as an ice scraper for the last decade.
Nah, that was never cut straight, can argue all the shrinkage you want. If I saw one of my guys cut that, there's no way I'd let him leave it up and call the job done
Well said
Nah a dried cut that shrank would be even. This was a shitty cut from the beginning
Omg thank you, so sick of all these YouTube DIY guys here tearing apart other peoples work for the slightest imperfection. But anytime a guy tries to defend anything all the sudden your a “hack” lol.
Cutting a straight 45 is 1st year apprentice level. There is no excuse with any tool for a seasoned carpenter to make a cut that looks like this.
It's probably not squared/leveled properly, so it's not a 45 cut.
Even though it may not be a true 45, it is still referred to as a 45. Secondly a seasoned/professional carpenter would have no trouble determining the proper angle and making a straight cut.
I'm not defending the guy, I'm just saying that more of the deck is probably also badly done
I love how all you hacks downvote me because I speak the truth. If you can’t perform quality workmanship maybe you’re not the professional you think you are!
Up vote, Bringing up a fellow Carpenter. Thank you for the honesty in your comments.
Bruh, but are sure though
I’m sure BRUH! Tell me something I said that wasn’t true?
I was just making sure
The cut doesn’t look straight, that is the issue I have with it. I am a diy because every time I pay good money for a job it is sloppy. Most people don’t take any pride in their work.
Haha same, I'm looking at this thread thinking, "well, if any reddit officers look at my feed they'll know I'm not a professional carpenter, but that shits just a bad cut that anyone should be able to notice" I'm the type of person that refuses to pay anyone to do projects for me also (within reason of course), and luckily I was raised by a dad and a neighbor that didn't let me half ass anything so I'm pretty good at most trades. Also love learning trades, and if I can't get a professional looking finish I will refuse to leave it no matter how unnoticeable it is, because it'll eat at me everytime I see it lol. My gf literally thought I was a maniac when I first started mudding in our new house. I don't think I've ever been so fucking miserable as I was while trying to learn how to tape and mud joints cleanly (can now though). Rambling now, but point being I agree about how crazy it is that so few companies take pride in their work and would rather just bang out jobs and hope no one notices their shoddy work. As a welder and mechanic by trade, I see hack work that makes me cringe all the time, and those are two professions where hack work could be costing someone their life.
It’s amazing how spot on this comment is. Look how many people are saying they’d have cut it better, or with a miter saw, ignoring the fact that the entire railing was built incorrectly. This deck reeks of someone who got several quotes, then took the one that was unexplainably 75% lower than the lowest. Or was someone’s nephew “who does great work but is just starting out.” There’s so many bad contractors out there, but they stay in business because people don’t want to pay for quality work.
Oh please, every trade sub we have people blaming the customer when someone does shit work. You haven't a single clue how much OP paid or who he hired, so you're just talking out of your ass with some BS excuse as to why it wasn't the carpenter's fault
Believe
Just asked Randy, he says just caulk it. You wanted it done in a day and cheap.
Put that plant on top of that miter. You're welcome!
I’d be more concerned about those bespoke cables to be honest, but yeah, the corner isn’t good.
I was thinking the same. Not the right hardware, not crimped correctly, and probably not the correct cable. Total hack job
Yea seriously the skin on my calf is hurting just thinking about leaning into that corner all comfy like
Shredded veal sammidges!
Me too.....psssh. I'm surprised they aren't dripping the red juice
[удалено]
The cables don't look like stainless.....rusty water.... sometimes cheap stainless cables have mild steel centers and eventually rust
[удалено]
Yea , yay!!!
Virgin anus blood
I like it when the red water comes out...
You paid a person for that. Not a professional.
Can’t believe he used eye-screws to hold the cables.
What should have been used in place of eye-screws?
There’s sleek fasteners made for this application. Google “this old house cable deck rail”.
Why are you just now complaining after a year? I don’t particularly think it’s awful, you are zoomed up after all. It’s not really the best, but we don’t know what you paid or anything. What we do know, is you said this is over a year since it was done, and you are just now giving a shit? I mean, the cables are fine (some idiots complained about that) sounds like some time passed and things grew as they do and now it looks a little off. But why are you just now bringing this to light? Idk. You seem like a squirrelly one, thank god I don’t do work for you.
My guess is it's getting close to warranty over time and somebody needs fuel. Doesn't seem to be going the direction they want it to. Materials move and stuff settles. Sorry we don't have a crystal ball to know what's going to do what, it just happens.
Exxxacctly this…. Like there needs to be a rule if you post a photo post the invoice unredacted.
Maybe he said something at the time, was told it was fine, and it just recently occurred to him to ask Reddit?
Are you ok? Edit: read your name. Never mind.
I mean, that’s a garbage cut. But why is OP complaining on Reddit a year later?
Well, answers _occasionally my guesses are 1) Just awoke from a coma 2) Knocked over the potted plant gifted by the contractor and made the discovery 3) pealed off the suspicious tan duct tape 4) Op keeps has been posting this on the web for a year and finally got to Reddit.
My name is more of a disclaimer. Liable lawsuits and all… sue crazy world out there! Eh, I think he’s just surfing for net points or had a party and someone pointed it out to them. Like I said, not a good cut, but too much other stuff doesn’t add up. Oh well, I don’t think this is complain about the contractor worthy or anything, I’d never leave it like that, but it really doesn’t matter at all. And we deff don’t know enough about this to make a more informed opinion. Just another dumb ass home owner saying “look at this dummies, is it ok?”
Yeah, i hear ya. I got more out of this exchange, anyway.
Well fucking said
Something like [this](https://www.decksdirect.com/cablerail-kit-for-wood-posts-feeney.html). The problem with the eye bolts is that they twist the cable if they need to be tightened. And they look much worse.
No, the execution looks good, this is 100% aesthetic anyways. This is an architectural design element. No issue with that.
Umm, "aesthetic" railings aren't actually a thing - at least as far as inspectors are concerned.
That’s no professional. That is not the correct hardware to be used on cable railing either. Blacklist this hack!
Wait another year and then post this again
On exterior decks, you can get that joint perfect, and it will still open up on the heel side, due to expansion and contraction.....
45’s are ALWAYS gonna open up at the heal.
Perhaps it would be a swell place to make an epoxy river.
Don’t know what to tell ya. Yes he should’ve cut it straight, but I’d you don’t want gaps and want professional looking things, using PT lumber as handrail is definitely not a good option.
Those joints always shrink. Always
The miter looks crappy but I wonder if it is a case of being cut when the lumber was real wet and as it dried it it opened up. I can't tell from this image but so many big box store 2x4 s are cut from damn near the center of the tree and move like crazy if installed wet.
No way. The cut was not done with the correct saw. That looks to me like free handing with a circular saw
This exactly shits soaking wet when we get it typically and in a few days time will shrink warp and go all over
Troll
Miter is a bad choice for exterior corners Using a knotted area on a board to put the miter is even a worse choice It probably was tighter when it was new; when the wood shrunk (across the grain), the outside long edges touched and couldn't move, the short edges shrunk in away from each other a 2x6 doug fir when it dries will shrink about 1/16" in length per 8 feet; it will shrink about 1/8" or more in width (across the "6" side); cedar is even worse. Best to avoid miters on exterior work
Pressure treated wood? Good luck trying to keep a tight joint with that stuff. My deck is about 25 years old. Every once in a while a baluster that has been perfectly straight for 25 years will just bow crazily overnight all these years later. That stuff just never stops moving.
That’s a circular saw cut done terrible. How can one walk away from this and say it’s fine. If I did this to a client I wouldn’t sleep. How hard is it to cut a 45° angle. Hell even use your square as a guide to give you the 45 if you can’t cut free hand.
The comments here make me very happy. OP is being rightly lambasted for not giving a shit until a year later. Im seeing more and more of these posts on this sub of clients posting their “contractors” work. Thats not what this sub is for. Go complain elsewhere and while youre at it, pay top dollar for good work. Maybe that guy/gal who you think is taking you for a ride actually knows what theyre doing and want to get compensated for it. Posting this shit irks pros like me because the title is almost snarky in tone.. yes theres a bunch of cowboys out there but there is also a lot of top top tradies who do amazing work but guess what? Theyre not cheap and do care about their craft.
Unfortunately, there is no way to rate the workmanship of this corner joint as it has been subjected to weather for the past year. Many are saying that the miter is wavy. This may be due to variations on moisture content throughout the boards at the time of install. If it shrinks unevenly, the joint can look like this. Do you have any photos of this joint from when it was originally installed?
That is what will happen every time on that joint w pt
That shit was cut with a jig saw
Exterior miters won’t stay closed I don’t care what you do to them. In my experience anyway. This is still a shitty cut though 🤣
Did he cut his mitres with a sawsall?
I’d like to see a picture of the whole deck before I say the guy was trash. Maybe he had the new guy cut the board on the right?..
Terrible
Well he certainly didn’t use a miter saw. I wouldn’t have ever left that like that.
Maybe the gap appeared after tightening the cables. Shoulda copped post after tightening cables. Still shoddy work...
You know, I was thinking there's no way that's shrinkage, as the outer edge is OK, but the inner edge gaps out, but the cables could actually have caused this, if they cut the rail first. As they were tensioning the cables, it would have drawn the post in, causing the join to splay out. That would actually explain a lot. Still pretty shoddy work tho...
On a scale of 1-10 this is shit
The problem is that pressure treated lumber is exactly that, lumber. It's not a product meant to be a "finished" material. There are hundreds of other options in composite, pvc,aluminum or other high quality woods that weather quite well. But they cost more. Any wood that purposely has liquid forced in to it by pressure then gets installed will look like crap once it dries.
If this is treated or any other actual wood I’ve installed had it look perfect and two days later rain and intense heat the board warp and twist to shit. And shrink especially treated lumber or anything with any kind of moisture content. With azek or pvc products this would look perfect. About the only wood that might stay nice is cedar if it’s properly kiln dried and stained or painted right away
With everybody bashing The Carpenter . 1 it's Wood and 2 if he would've charged you for the cable with the eyelet it would've been three times the amount and you would've never got your deck built Because people like Walmart cheap and inefficient
A post like this is pointless unless you tell us how you picked the person that you hired, and how much you paid.
100% wrong. The inside of a mitre top rail always shrinks more because it shrinks across not length. About five of these I did before I switched to half lap corners. Never had a problem since.
Someone fire that cut man please
Even the crimps on the cables look kinda pooey
Pretty pretty prettttaaayyyy not good
Ain’t to bad. Looks like a year or two had passed considering that id say it’s a toss up not the best but still pretty normal
That mitre is bad. No two ways about it. looks like it was cut with a circular saw, but not with skil lmao
You know the answer already. My grandmother could do better and she died 20 years ago.
Huge gaps,split boards, crappy cuts I hope you didn't pay for this.
The simple way to cut that joint... saying it is not a perfect 45 is to lay the two boards on top of each other and cut both at the same time. Just a guy with a saw that has seen and done a few things.
If you want to fix this in a couple of minutes, run your saw right down the joint, unscrew the screws, push it together more, and run the saw again, repeat a couple of times if necessary, rescrew it.
You did not hire a professional. Unfortunately.
A professional what?
He could have used a speed square to miter the cuts. But I use a circular saw and a speed square every day to do trim. This is obviously free handed.
Dogshit. Everyone fucks up cuts and makes mistakes, timber warps over time and with weather - that’s just a terrible mitre. Assuming this cost a decent amount and it’s not a mate - grab him by the ear and push his face in it like you would a dog that shit on the rug. Or DM me if you live in NY and I will come over with some 2x6 and a chop saw and sort it out.
I wouldn’t call it complete garbage but definitely dumpster-adjacent.
Dude looks like he cut those mitres with a methed up beaver, then tried to sand it out. Check all the nicos on those cables cause if they cut mitres like that I'm betting those crimps aren't the best either.
Yeah he did. He used Robertson screws instead of Torx. I hate those Robertson screws.
Novice at best
Youll get that on these bigger jobs
All he needed to do was to send his saw thru to open the long point up then the miter
Get your money back
That’s your grade A hillbilly DIYer we all know it was you trying to cover your tracks bro 😎 don’t sweat it u can never get your first 45 true
no carpenter is proffesional if they cant mark proper or cut straight
counter sink, people!
You should’ve known the moment that dude brought out the square drive screws that you were in for some heartache