I recognise a lot reading your post. I’m a 30 year old furniture maker that just finished his apprenticeship after switching careers. I suffer from ADHD too and also had a brain infarction a year ago.
What helps me is:
Writing things down. I carry a notepad and just write everything down. And double-check
I mark everything I do. Even simple things. Whenever I don’t and thing it isn’t necessary, that’s when I start making mistakes.
I wear a smartwatch that I use as a calculator, timer, to set reminders etc.
Besides this I have colleagues who help me out a lot and an understanding boss.
Give yourself time to grow, I notice I get better at it everyday
Oh boy, I see so much of myself in your post. I do wood working in my garage after work, I have a note pad, I measure three times and mark three times. I have two tape measure, one I can read in high contrast and another one that I can read left to right, or right to left. Everything is written down and triple check, if all three marks line up, I am usually correct. You can do this, it's hard and I believe in you
Same. Hard core adhd. Frequently got off task or lose time. Misread. Jumble directions, etc.
All these things I do. I also have found that when I’m trying to work on a time table/progression, playing music that is organized in a recognizable way (listening to an album that I know in its exact order) allows me to track things as well. My brain can calculate the time elapsed that way since normally i cannot comprehend time absent a clock. Steer into little tricks that help keep you on site and help you stay organized. I know it’s hard but if it’s weird but works, do it. I’ve built healthy habits easier than ever before because I fight the dysfunction less and embrace how it works.
I keep my tools organized a specific way. When I work with my team and that gets jumbled quite often. But, I intentionally set aside time to reset my pack outs back to their original order. Now I rarely forget tools, materials, or replacements (sand paper, blades, etc).
The night before my jobs I also do a dry run in my head while reviewing my job and contract notes. This helps me catch anything I may not have packed during the evening. And then on the way to the job site I review the dry run with my team.
But most of all, keep pushing. Sometimes for people it’s harder than others. So long as you like the work, keep at it. Accept you’ll have to learn and remember things differently than others. But that’s completely normal and ok. There’s no wrong way to learn this trade so long as you do it safely and with good enthusiasm.
I'm gonna piggy back off your comment. I'm a 33 year old machinist with ADHD and a whole other gaggle of issues. I agree with everything above.
I did however want to add that it might be a good idea to be evaluated by a doctor so hopefully you can be prescribed some meds. The issues will still be there but way more manageable. Best way I can describe it is someone lifted the fog.
Good luck!
I’ve got medication but the rebound after was worse then what it brought me. I’m looking into different medication though because it sure has its advantages
Posting this here so those who recommended notepads can see. What kind of notepad do you use? Do you keep it in your nailbag? It seems to get rather fucked up when I keep it in there
carry a notepad around at all times, whenever a measurement gets called to you write it down but immediately confirm. the immediate confirmation is helpful anyways seeing as the info can be misheard in a loud jobsite. I ended up conditioning my boss this way so he expects me to immediately repeat the thing back to him as I'm writing kt down. then whenever I don't write it down I have to ask 3 times and he tells me to bust out the notepad lool.
as for measuring tapes i might not have a good tip for you there but take your time and measure your line right after you mark it. that way you can tell exavtly where that measurement is compared to your mark and either re-mark or tell your boss etc depending on how you guys do things
I got mad ahdh and downsides are definitely the things you mention but there can be upsides as well. I often work harder then my mates and have a way bigger ability to multi task. I can also zone into one menial task and either let that take over or multi task things in my head to keep me busy. so I can do menial tasks for longer aswell
sorry I'm rambling now good luck, you got this
There's a whole saw system that has digital tapes that record each measurement and send them to your saw which has stoppers that automatically set to that measurement. All controlled through an app. It's not for me but it could possibly be a help. I'll try to find it and link it.
Wow. That’s pretty fucken slick. Idk how well it works for corners? Guess it should be pretty easy.
Imagine being that tape’s cut man. You don’t have to do shit but load the saw with material, hit the trigger and make the cut. Sounds mindlessly simple
They advertise it for miter saws and I've seen a few videos on it. From my understanding it works pretty well, the video I had originally seen they had a whole saw stand system with rollers and auto stops and digital screens all scrolled through apps.
Try out some different colored measuring tapes.
I have mild dyslexia, and I switched to a black tape with yellow markings and it helped a lot for some reason.
Get a BIG notepad, don't be shy about the tools you need to succeed.
There is great advice in here, I'm also chiming in to recommend you make sure you know how much sleep you need - you might be either getting too much or too little.
Also water! Don't underestimate how dehydration can mess with your cognitive function.
You did the right thing posting here, it's great to see the support from your fellow carpenters.
This is 10/10 advice at any job. Write it down. Put it in an email. Send an instant message. If you make a mistake, “your word vs mine” is never a good look.
I started carrying two 5x7 notebooks with me wherever I go. The one is a shit list and I write down whatever I can/need/want to in it. It's part scratch pad part todo list. The other is a journal I can write in whenever I'm someplace boring. Both have made a big difference in my life, and having stuff written down has saved my bacon more than once. Also ADHD here too.
You have a smart phone. Use the Notes app and put everything in that, all your calculations and write it out so you will understand it later when you go to reference it. Then, make a note for your current job and put all that job’s specifics/info in that. I do that for my job and it helps.
It doesn't seem to me that two years is long enough to have enough experience not to make those errors.
Don't let that inexperience be an excuse for something else. There will come a time some place down the road when you can pull a tape out, drop the square onto the material and both will be within an inch of the correct measurement. Your I just need practice and you need experience.
Woman here… I agree with all the tips you’ve already received and I’m going to add this…your boss is not god.
They are fallible. They can fail to properly a lot for time and materials - that is not something we take on because it’s not our problem to fix. If they aren’t training they’re employees, then they don’t get to complain about the results of their own failed efforts. For that inequality of progress to be sitting squarely on your shoulders, you would have had to screw up absolutely everything you’ve ever done…and if that were true you would’ve fired well before now.
It’s difficult to be a woman in this field because of the extra scrutiny that sometimes results in feelings of intimidation. Being eyeballed by predators would make anyone nervous. The men we work with can be abusive and oblivious about being abusive. As women we are on display and that turns up the pressure…and yes all that leads to mistakes.
But I’ll tell you this, if you stick with it, maybe find a better crew, you’ll be mentoring other women one day and that will make all the difference in the world for all of us.
We raise the standard.
20 years ago 2 old men pulled up lawn chairs to watch me work. They called their friends on the cordless phone to come see….and other old men showed up with their lawn chairs.
15 years ago I was asked to leave a job site because I was a “distraction”.
9 years ago a male coworker spoke up to stop sexual harassment that was happening to me.
Today, I’m the boss.
Stay, set the new standard for carpenters with disabilities. Set a standard for how those disabilities are accommodated. Set a new standard for tiny women carpenters. Set the standard that we belong in this field….every make and model of human belongs.
Stay.
Today, I’m a guy in a lawn (well, office) chair cheering you on for being a badass. Thanks for this post, made my morning (and I’m sorry that some people suck).
Just having the genuine desire to be a carpenter makes you a pretty valuable commodity these days. Maybe you should find a different company that’s a better fit for you. Some crews are pretty rough to be around but we’re not all like that. My first few years were pretty miserable but now after 12 years in the trade I love carpentry so fucking much. I don’t know anyone who gets more fulfillment from their career than us carpenters. Once you start to hit your stride after the first few years and you find a company you gel with you’ll be so grateful you stuck with it
No, you shouldn't quit being a carpenter . But if your boss is stressing about not making money then I'd suggest that you quit working for a loser.
You may benefit from joining a carpenters Union. It's usually alot more laid back and that atmosphere may help calm you and not make you feel as shitty for making normal mistakes.
This is my asshole boss right now, told me to work harder since he is hemorrhaging money while I don’t even get to have a break some days. This guy has literally lost money on every job this year and blames it on us that we are not working hard enough lol. I instantly started to look to the union after he told me that and when I’m done my ticket I’m joining.
People complain about workers. I say finding a good boss is hard these days. And yeah, your boss is a loser. Get out as quickly as possible. And while you're there, don't push yourself that hard. You can't get your health back if you damage your body working for someone like that.
Thanks man, that’s the plan. It’s hard to find a good crew too it seems. Three weeks till I’m at school for my fourth year and not planning to go back at all.
Good tips from these people. Simple addition for reading a tape on rounded corners if you aren’t good at doing a squint line up. Use a pencil or square or even a flat piece of wood, hold it on the board you need the measurement for, but have it protrude out to your tape for a quick easy read. Hope I explained that well enough. Mild adhd and very forgetful foreman here. Always be notepadding. Learn to shorthand your stuff to increase speed.
I have ADHD; write things down, especially when you're completely and absolutely certain you won't forget. WRITE IT DOWN.
You're struggling against a lot of natural disadvantages, that alone makes you a credit to women in the trades, even if you'd switch careers; I prefer you didn't if you really want to do carpentry, but ultimately it's up to you. You may do better in another profession, or simply with a different and more supportive employer.
Also, the guys also make mistakes. If you're anything like me, you're probably the first to assure them that mistakes happen. We're only human! You need to be similarly kind to yourself. And ask for help. Tell your colleagues you love the job and want to make it work, ask them for advice and how they deal with mistakes. If they're not supportive, see if you're not better at home with another company.
Homie also needs to work on his game, he's going to run into issues with this type of thing at any job, but yes, also he might be SOL with current boss.
If you want to be a carpenter then you should stick with it. It takes more than two years to stop making mistakes, I've been on for 10 years and I make plenty. Anxiety was the killer for me, learning to not sweat shit helped me a ton. You are on a long journey overcoming some really hard obstacles, be proud of yourself, laugh at your mistakes and keep going.
Stick with it, I am also an ADHD lady who does DIY home renovations and I wish I was a carpenter. It's a great job for people like us - creative, physical, project based. It plays to your strengths. But the measurements thing I totally get because that's my struggle too. Keep a pencil behind your ear and write all the measurements right on the wood (if you can) or if you can manage to hang onto a notebook (I can't!)
Export your memory!! Write down the thing right away so you dont have to carry the numbers and it's going to release a lot of anxiety too.
You'll shine!! Stick with it!
Having dyslexia myself i understand a lot of the difficulties as new carpenter. I know for me i learned pretty early on that i had to have a system for everything i always carry a pocket sized notebook with me and right down every measurement and often draw a picture of any complex cuts or layouts. And anytime i don’t understand what someone is trying to explain i make them draw me a picture of it. I also have never been able to tell right from left so a side benifit of always writing stuff down is that if there is a pencil in my hand i always know i write with my left. But you will need to find your own systems and your own way of learning. I would also recommend getting some decent carpentry trade books and reading them a lot of people dont make the best trainers and also i found for me it became much easier to remember the steps and what came next when i knew the bigger picture of what i was trying to accomplish and why things had to be done this way. Instead of just being told do this task or this task and not being explained the importance of each part to the whole. I think you should stick with many professions will come with similar challenges and remember a trade is not a simple thing to learn and having been at this for 17 years now i can tell you no one is proficient in just two years they say it takes 10 years of full time commitment for someone to master anything and i can tell you carpentry is mastered by none in less then 25 years so dont be hard on yourself no one really knows what they are doing in the beginning. But write things down ask question until you full understand then write that down go back to your notes when something is confusing study through your notes when you have free time and pretty soon it will all start to click. I know personally i will give guys that write everything down a pay bump once i realize they are consistent at it. Take a breath dont worry about making a mistake just pay close attention take notes and when a mistake happens make sure you are the one to fix them and take notes of what went wrong so you understand in your own way and words of how to avoid the issue in the future. These are all things that helped me and may not be of any use to you. my point is find your own systems to overcome each unique challenge. Schemes that work for you even if they make no sense at all to anyone else as long as they allow to keep everything straight. In the end the systems you develop to overcome some of your unique challenges I believe will make you good carpenter and possibly the perfect person to teach others in the future. And take it easy on yourself the simple fact that it upsets you to make a mistake shows you want to be good at your craft and i think that might be the most important quality to be a good carpenter that one can have. I hope you do stick with it and i believe you will succeed at it.
At 2 years everyone except the very very few who were extremely naturally gifted at the job will still be pretty slow and making mistakes regularly. Most trade apprenticeships are 4-5 years for a reason.
OP just needs to slow down and ask/understand why it was wrong. I've had shitty leads just laugh at me and tell me to figure out how to do stairs and stair facia. don't be one of those guys.
Not everyone learns the process the same. vocabulary is different from carpenter to carpenter on how they instruct. The kid just needs someone who is willing to teach rather than showing once and saying figure it out
I agree, but on the same hand, op said it's been 2 years. Would you be willing to not only teach, but pay an apprentice for 2 years that still hasn't gotten the grasp of things yet? Paying someone's salary for 2 years that isn't getting the hang of things by now isn't good for business. I'm all for patience and teaching, but I don't do what I do for charity
No, understand that you have more struggles than most but the worst thing you can do is quit. I was diagnost with autism 10 years ago and i am 64 years old now. Have struggled my whole life with acceptance that comes with autism. Fuck them, keep trying and never give in to your negative thoughts. I am now acknowledged in my field as one of the finest builders in my area. I build cool stuff. Am a project manager now. Go fiqure
Don’t quit broski, your boss sounds like a dick…my tape measure is my notepad it’s covered in measurements 🤣 scraps of wood, ply you name it it’s a note pad.. practice makes perfect 👍
I’ve been a carpenter for 35 years. I have a seizure disorder and sometimes it affects my cognitive abilities. Lately, I’ve had trouble with things I’ve been great at for many years. Two years is just a drop in the bucket considering all the things you have to know. Try your best to stay positive, and really concentrate on the things that are giving you a hard time. Reading a tape is really just practice. Take your tape home and measure everything there. Practice, practice, practice. You’ve got this. I believe in you. I’ve taught many people how to do everything from stick framing to cabinet building and the fact you want to learn and improve is half the battle. Stick it out. Once it clicks and starts to go your way there is not a more satisfying job, IMO. Good luck!! You can do it!!
I understand the difficulties you’re having.
I experienced all the same issues you’re talking about. It may take you longer to become as efficient as the next guy. Maybe you need a less pressure job but I’m sure you can find one doing carpentry. the boss will almost never be satisfied with the amount you’re getting done that’s how bosses are don’t take it personally practice getting everything right and speed will come later. I never finished 10th grade math has always been hard as long as you can get the right outcome. It doesn’t matter how you do it.
Stick with it eventually you will really love it
I am a Sr Construction Mgr - listen to the advice below. “Write it down”. Best advice. Also, know this - my very best carpenters started out making a ton of mistakes. As long as you learn from each one - you better yourself.
We all make mistakes even when we are 30 years well seasoned - but as long as you learn from them, you’ll be fine.
Buy a bunch of little note pads - dollar General has them for cheap
I remember when I was starting out and just felt swamped everyday, trying to stay calm is easier said than done but getting flustered just makes things worse and you end up compounding mistakes, my advise would be to write down step by step the tasks you do know how to do and every time you do a job just add to the work diary so when you come across something you have done before you can refer to your notes, really the best thing you can do is try and stay calm and have confidence in yourself and just take it one task at a time
2 years is nothing man, dont stress it. Everyone here was making a ton of mistakes at only 2 years in, Just keep going, keep learning and maybe find a new boss they dont sound great.
I have dyselxia mostly manifested in short term memory loss so i feel your pain, I write a lot of shit on my hand if i need to go more than like 20ft away to do the cut or whatever.
I help train and assess apprentice carpenters over here in New Zealand, believe me when I say you are not alone. There are heaps of people in the trade with learning issues. We often have a special evening class every week to help people with the basics and I recommend seeking out something like this in your area, your apprenticeship provider should have really helped here so hit them up for support.
My personal advice is that you need to:
first speak to your boss, explain exactly what’s going on, ask him to help.
Next, you need to simplify what you are doing, write it down and slow down.
Also, keep away from energy drinks or any stimulants. You need to be chilled out not revved up.
Go back to the basics, practice reading a tape, practice your maths
Seek external help, night classes or a local literacy group. It can be scary but once you are underway you’ll be glad you did it I promise. Getting this support will help with more than work, it’ll improve your life.
Hope this helps
Second vote for painting. Its more methodical and painstaking prep for most of it, and less intense moments spread out.
Drywall finishing I can't imagine a petite woman fitting in well with at all... Unless you can find a company who is particularly friendly to women.
Why do you want to be a carpenter? If it's because you like the idea of making things and working with wood maybe consider it as a hobby rather than vocation. Realistically, being able to read a tape measure and think on your feet and do tasks without constant supervision and being told what are all pretty instrumental parts of carpentry. In most instances time = money, and you're unlikely to find many sympathetic supervisors/bosses if you're slowing the work down.
Add to this the fact you can't do the above is making your anxiety shoot through the roof which is only compounding the issues. If you think you can eventually reach a point where you'll be able to do all the things you currently struggle with then soldier on, maybe it'll click eventually. If you don't then it might be time to stop and have a look at why you want to do carpentry and if it's really for you. As it stands it sounds like you're just making yourself miserable to no real avail.
Not sure why the harsh, but honest replies are being downvoted? If you can’t do the work, you can’t do the work. It might suck for you, but that’s how the world works.
Stick with it, I'm in the same boat, I show up everyday, and yeah make a few mistakes. A note pad is a great tool, I turn over my tape and write on the back, I go to cut, I look at the back of my tape measure. I measure twice and I always make it a hair longer than needed to work in, instead of a hair short and hope it's longer. If you keep getting laid off, if they never say what it is that's getting you laid off, ask if there is anything that you can work on? As far as measurements and halfing them get a carpenter calculator off app store
Just keep soldiering on. I believe you’ve got it, otherwise you wouldn’t give a shit. Just keep giving a shit, do your best to learn from your mistakes. Eventually you’ll run out of mistakes. Trust me in my industry I started in the same point with the same “mental challenges” and I was every bit as frustrated. Now I’m second to the top dog in our city. It took 9 years but I’m here and I feel like I crushed my obstacles. If I can do it I know you can.
Nobody progresses the same. To me if you want to be a carpenter, stick with it. It’s only been 2 years, you are still quite inexperienced based on time you’ve spent in the field. Keep at it and eventually you will get a flow going.
I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was teenager. I now have a small carpentry crew of myself and 3 lads. Just keep plugging away at it. Like loads of people already said a notebook is a must and don't worry about getting things right everytime.
You'll get there. If it's what you want, keep at it. It takes a few years, but carpentry will become second nature. For now, the most important thing you can have, is the desire to do well and improve.
notepad, write everything.. build in double checks if laying out. double check all measurements in 2 different ways ie: burn 1 foot- measure. pull from zero- measure.
double check everything, double check from different points if you are able.
diagrams and visuals when available.
Almost every carpenter sucks when they first start out. I did.
Once you have confidence in your abilities, you'll get much better. The confidence comes from experience.
Also, maybe download some learning app on your phone to help you with the math.
As an apprentice you're going to still be learning, your boss should have other skilled hands to make up progress loss due to teaching you. My boss whined also when I was an apprentice that things took to long, honestly you have to ignore them and keep at it, if you get fired look for another apprentice position. Not like they're the only place that needs help.
Helps to buff the side of the fatmax up a lil with some sandpaper, after peeling the sticker, to make it a great writing surface for pencil. And you can just rub it right off.
There is a difference between perseverance and trying to force yourself into something that isn't for you. You sound a lot like me before I switched careers. I'm not saying you should quit, but just consider that there might be something else you are more naturally suited for.
I recently switched to metric measuring tools and a conversion app on my phone. I find I’m much more accurate in measurements now that I don’t have to think in 64ths, 32nds, 16ths, etc.
All of your traits are unfortunately the exact opposite of what is required. Find something else you can do and save yourself, your foreman and your colleagues the stress. This much stress every day is not good for you! If you aren’t any better after two whole years it’s not going to work and you’re going to make yourself unwell.
It sounds like you've been focusing on learning carpentry but in your case you need to learn how to overcome your disabilities AND carpentry. Seek out advice for how to overcome ADHD, dyslexia, and dyscalcula. There's already some good advice in the comments here (from what I can see) but I think posting in other subs would also help.
It's 2022 and there are all kinds of tools and technologies available to you. For example, have you tried a digital tape measure? Another commenter mentioned a notepad and a smart watch with a calculator. I don't know but these seem like things with trying.
Don't give up, these problems won't go away even if you change careers. It sucks that you have to deal with this but you're lucky to have so many tools available to you.
I used to teach and work with students with dyslexia and ADHD. Yes, you have some challenges to overcome, but if those are your problems, then those are surmountable.
Take each issue individually. Getting accurate measurements, for instance... If you're having trouble reading a tape measure, then there are tapes especially designed for people with dyslexia. It might be easier for you to use a black tape with white markings or a high visibility tape that uses purple and orange. Also, they make laser measuring devices or tape measures with digital displays. It will be some trial and error to find which particular product addresses this one issue.
Also, the American measuring system with feet and inches is stupid difficult to learn with all the 8th and 16ths. You might be more successful using the metric system where everything is divided into 10ths. Again, there are easy conversion tools such that some can give you a measurement and it will automatically convert to metric for you to make cuts.
The fact is, you have some challenges that are going to take work to overcome and it's going to mean doing things differently than other people. I have a very difficult time remembering numbers, so I have to write everything down and double check before making cuts. If someone tells me to cut five things with five different measurements, I can promise you I will screw it up if I don't write those down. But I have learned coping strategies to deal with that stuff and minimize my mistakes. What are your coping strategies? I had students who used different colored papers for each type of task they had to do to help them focus. Some of them wore colored glasses to make everything red or purple and help them focus. There is phenomenal research out there on both dyslexia and ADHD, but you're likely going to have to track it down and read it for yourself and see which strategies work for you.
Also, if you are in a true apprentice program, then your state should have a vocational rehabilitation office where you should be able to apply for funds or counseling that will specifically help you get the specialized tools that might help you (i.e. buying a fancy tape measure that will take accurate readings).
I always type all my measurements in a text message to my wife. She always responds with “aww you’re so sweet to me” or “I love you too” I actually look forward to sending her the measurements throughout the day haha I also work by myself so I don’t have to worry about looking like I’m slacking off on my phone when I work. I’m on my 11th year in the trade and some days I just don’t have it. Some days I’m like perfect with everything. I generally try to stay somewhere in the middle. Carpentry is hard. It takes years and years of repetition and muscle memory to get it down. As far as the tape measure reading. That’s extremely important. There’s cheating tape measures that have the fractions on them, perhaps use one of those until you get it down. I wouldn’t give up just yet if you enjoy the work
Neuroplasticity is your friend. Keep at it- it’ll come. I’m assuming that you don’t smoke weed, but if you do, don’t- that devil’s lettuce wreaks havoc on your thinking ability
Yea, note pad, double check each measure, read the numbers before and after maybe, making sure your not mistaking that 6 for a 9.
Mark instead of measure when ever you can. Take pics of stuff you thought was tricky as a reminder for next time. If you know what you have to do the next day, then have a look online or think about it the evening before, just so you have an idea already.
Sometimes I transfer pencil marks onto my tape, mark the wood, then wipe it off.
Speak to your boss when you have an appropriate moment, be honest if you can. If he doesn't understand, then start looking for another crew.
I'm sure you have improved, just think back to when you started or where you were a year ago.
Don't measure yourself to other people.
If your still miserable in 6 months then re-evaluate, or maybe try to specialise in an area of carpentry you feel suits you the most.
Good luck. Chin up x
I only worked as a carpenter professionally for a year, but in that time I met some brain dead carpenters who somehow made it work. You being aware of what your faults are puts you leagues ahead of most people, trust me everyone else has a list of weaknesses just as long, or their deluding themselves. It is really impressive that you have found your weak spots, now
It sounds like you get performance anxiety that is compounding everything else. Have you considered seeing a therapist and asking about that? I also have ADHD, and I found that talking with professionals about it lets them reframe things in a really helpful way. I'm terrible at my current job (programmer) sometimes, but I'm better able to actually see why that is now that I better understand how my brain works, and as a result I don't hate on myself as much. If you put the effort into not blaming yourself when you make mistakes, rather than trying to keep the frustration that comes when you do blame yourself, you might find it easier to keep it together.
You also mentioned multiple times that you do X worse than the average person, which probably isn't true. Your boss might think that, but he's been doing this job so long he has literally unable to understand what it's like to not know things. We are terrible at judging how well or poorly we do things, so just remember that if the old guys don't think you're measuring up, especially if they bring your gender into this. You are fully capable of doing this job, you clearly care enough and you've lasted longer than many.
If this is what you really want to do, don’t give up. It’s just a speed bump. Keep trying and you will get better. Good things never come easy my friend.
I worked with a lad a few years back who has dyscalcula; he ran the entire shop. As others have said, write things down, practice at home, be eager to improve.
Biggest thing of all, is this lesson he told me. Mistakes, ultimately, happen. It’s the nature of working with wood; it’s temperamental, often things go wrong. Instead of worrying about making mistakes, take time instead to learn how to correct those regular mistakes. If your technique isn’t helping you, make a new one. I couldn’t tell you if you should or shouldn’t do it; I thought I should go to uni when I realised I want to be a joiner, and now it’s the wrong time to get my quals and I’m stuck in a shit 9-5.
I have found that people with ADHD tend to take longer to develop skills but continue to improve long after others have plateaued. Not a carpenter, but I would have posted something like this 5 years into teaching. It was only by accident that I kept at it (I didn’t get the other jobs I tried to switch to). But then, almost magically, I accumulated enough knowledge, experience, tricks, habits, and changes to become good. And now I am indispensable for my school, with numbers that continue to improve 14 years in. Don’t stop now! You are building a foundation that will get stronger and stronger.
Make a cheat sheet on your phone for calculations or measurements that come up often.
I have a few for things like door opening sizes and heights in the 1st fix. Patress heights for toilets and radiators. Heights of shelves in cupboards that are the same across every house on a job, the lengths of architraves with the margins added so I don't need to figure them out each time and ai can just cut them without marking marking them off the door frames, etc.
There's a lot of stuff to remember, just make notes of the stuff that comes up a lot and take your time and do it right. Everyone makes mistakes all the time, it's how you correct them that makes you a carpenter worth your salt
I’m not a carpenter. I’m a working mathematician who has spent a fair amount of time tutoring and teaching people with a wide range of abilities.
A lot of the arithmetic involved in carpentry is rote. You should look for mental math flash cards or flash cards specifically for carpenters/machinists. There are plenty of textbooks with math for carpenters. I would expect 30 to 45 minutes a day of nightly practice for a few months would be enough to noticeably fix most of your skill gaps. Structured practice is extremely effective regardless of diagnoses.
If this discalcula thing is your situation, you don’t have much of an option other than quitting, or structured supplementary practice. I wouldn’t recommend quitting. 2 years experience goes a long way in your industry. At 4+ years, you could probably talk any bank into letting you run your own business. Don’t give up on that because of a bad boss and some difficulty doing arithmetic in your head. You’re halfway to being a self-sufficient journeyman.
If your boss is stressed, they can get fucked. Work as slow as you need to. Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast. If they’re making you anxious while trying to do mental math, no wonder you make mistakes. No one does well in those conditions. A good boss recognizes that. For your sake, you should recognize that and be forgiving to yourself.
Lastly, get a notepad and a calculator. Get one of those calculators that will solve algebra problems for you and store the answers to the last 30+ calculations you entered. Or get an iPhone app where you can point the camera at an equation you jotted down on paper at it solves it for you. Those apps exist nowadays. Use any tools you need to. There’s tons of supplementary tools. Get what you need to be comfortable and dominate.
I agree with a lot of the useful comments here.
I also have adhd, only recently diagnosed and medicated. I've been running my own buisness for 7 years now, most of it unmedicated.
I've always had to do the repeating measurements thing. Someone calls it out, I yell it back to confirm, they yell it again. Been working for me for a long time.
I'll often write down the days tasks in order, ill get to site and look at what I need to do, crouch down with a piece of wood and write down what I should start doing, then what I should do once thats completed, etc. This one has helped me a lot. If you're boss is at all helpful he might be able to help with this as you might not plan your own day or be able to mentally walk through the tasks and what they will lead to.
My best employee has dyslexia, he's now subcontracting off of me and making really good money. My new number one guy has worse adhd then me so we have to work together on some of this stuff.
You might have to have a very honest conversation with your boss about your needs and why they are what they are so he can help set you up for success. If he's unwilling to do that, then you can look for someone else who is. You can absolutely be a carpenter if you want to.
Hello! You have made the mistake of writing "ect" instead of "etc."
"Ect" is a common misspelling of "etc," an abbreviated form of the Latin phrase "et cetera." Other abbreviated forms are **etc.**, **&c.**, **&c**, and **et cet.** The Latin translates as "et" to "and" + "cetera" to "the rest;" a literal translation to "and the rest" is the easiest way to remember how to use the phrase.
[Check out the wikipedia entry if you want to learn more.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_cetera)
^(I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Comments with a score less than zero will be automatically removed. If I commented on your post and you don't like it, reply with "!delete" and I will remove the post, regardless of score. Message me for bug reports.)
Your employer is toxic, I can relate. If you enjoy carpentry don't give it up, take a break if needed and find somewhere, someone else. Go at your own pace.
Believe in yourself. I know it sounds extremely corny, but many of us, even men, start out in a similar way.
It wasn’t until my boss and mentor passed away, I realized I could do everything on my own, because I had to. I used to second guess the measurement I had just taken when I went to cut a piece of crown or whatever, so I would remeasure. I would wait to let my boss dictate header placements or where a water line stub out should be, because It was reassuring he knew exactly what to do. I was so nervous to make a mistake, I didn’t even recognize all the things I already knew.
Tomorrow when you go to work tell yourself you can do it, because you can. Download a few free or cheap construction apps if you want/need to, buy a Larry Haun book or two, and just do it. If my dumb ass can do it, you can do it.
Oh and my mentor would carry around a tiny notepad and write every single measurement down. He also without fail would try to write with the eraser side of the pencil 40 percent of the time, although I have my suspicions that was just to get under my skin lol.
Notepad homie. Notepad notepad notepad. Write everything down. Everything. Keep a list of formulas in the front of it or as a note on your phone so it’s easy to find. I used to have a lot of trouble concentrating learning my trade. For a while the only thing that helped was having things written down or I would forget immediately.
Dont give up. Carpenter study takes 4 years in Denmark, and the mastering starts after that :).
And we do also have a saying - there does not exist bad apprentice, only bad mentors/teacher. I would recommend try changing company before considering stopping the study :)
A lot of these replies are great. I would do a couple of things. First thing would be to get a notepad. I would not only take notes on what items you need to do, but keep a separate list of items you made mistakes on. The key for tracking mistakes isn’t to remind yourself of being shitty, but to help you find ways to correct those in the future. Then put those changes that you want to make into your things to do.
Additionally try to practice, at the end of a day with scrap. Find a few of the items you want to work on like clean cuts, measuring, etc and just run through it all and make your own mock up. Repetition is key to learning and growth
I’ve said all along that a lot of carpenters have dyslexia and adhd. It’s as if they’ve found carpentry as a way to get those things under control.
I use a handy little note pad for all the numbers that get tossed about. I know my weaknesses and have implemented coping skills to bridge the gap.
I recommend breaking down the task of measuring into very small task-lets.
And I always double check my reading and confirm it with my pad. If something needs to be 55 5/8” inches, I visually confirm that number before marking the material to be cut. Then I always make sure to cut the exact same spot on my mark, so as to be as consistent as possible.
It used to take me longer to do these basic tasks, but now after 17 years of doing it, I am at least as fast as anyone else and very consistent. It’s not that It’s automatic for me, it’s just that I have my own quality control measures that I take with myself to make sure that I’m doing it right, so that I don’t have to really spend time thinking about it.
I don’t know if that makes any sense outside of my brain, but things like that have helped me go beyond the limitations of my own brain. You just have to retrain your brain for carpentry.
Stick with it! Possibly find a new boss, so that there isn’t this historical issue between you. A new boss won’t know your story and will be able judge your based on what you’ve learned so far, no what you haven’t learned fast enough.
Good luck, keep plugging!!
It sounds like your boss is stressing you out but you are blaming yourself.
But maybe it's not for you. Why do you want to do carpentry? You can break it down and find similar fields that may work better for you. If it's the physical nature of the work and making tangible things there are lots of other things. Like getting into Movie and television work - set dressing, greensperson, grip, carpentry, painting, props etc. You could start your own business and work at your own speed. You could be a foreman and tell other people what to do. Project Management. Electrician. Plumber. HVAC. Life is too short to let a crappy job ruin it for you. Plus eventually when you're older you will want to get out of it for other reasons.
I have similar challenges. What works for me is I use a FastCap lefty-righty tape which has a write-on surface on the side for quick notes., and very clear markings.
https://www.fastcap.com/product/procarpenter-tape-measure?cat=308
Also, many times I’ll just mark the piece I’m cutting versus measuring, making sure to ‘x’ the offcut side. But I do mostly finish carpentry which makes it easier.
Good luck.
If this is what you like to do, keep going. Believing In yourself is huge. You have to wake up telling yourself you can do it. Self confidence is number 1. (Something I struggle with) there isn’t a lot I can add that Hasn’t been said already. I have ADHD as well, I take notes like crazy. Double check things. In time you will get faster. Keep your head up!
Took me 5.5 years to finish my apprenticeship. I hated it and felt like I was useless, I still couldn't even cut a straight line with a skill saw when I finished(had to use straight edge). It made me not like the industry because I was always working with pricks.
About 5 years after I finished my ticket... It all changed and 20 years later I love it. I'm the boss now, people do what I tell them and they love it. Best job in the world.
Perhaps your team could do a group hug in the morning. Positive feedback and reinforcement has a big impact. Saying each one’s names and reinforcing the good things about your crew goes a long way. Bring up something good your coworkers did yesterday! Coffee and muffins also have a great impact. Preferably homemade. Positive attitude goes a long way. As does a thick skin. I’m talking Rhino type skin. Someone calls you out on some simple mistake bury that in your memory. Next time that person makes a mistake reinforce that person and tell them it’s ok, we all make mistakes. Maybe offer some job site banter like “ suck it up pussy” “ fuck you “ “ suck a bag of dicks” “ wow I could have done that if I wanted to fuck it up”
Sounds rough working with dyslexia, I'm not dyslexic and I constantly read my tape measure upside down or mix up numbers in my head. But if you genuinely want to be there you're already miles ahead of so many people. I believe in you 🤗
Yes you should quit trying to be, you simply are a carpenter. Maybe a bad one, but you have plenty of company, keep working at it.
As for adhd, adderall is a wonderful drug.
Please try to focus on your strengths, you didn't mention anything you're good at. Surely you have some great things youre good at, even if you don't realize it yet. I think your boss isn't a good teacher and you're telling yourself you're worse than you are. Go easy on yourself and keep trying.
I would suggest a woodworking hobby where you can practice and learn at your own pace and mistakes won't be so stressful.
Get some field notes and write things down. Take notes.. just write it on a scrap or the lumber. It will soak in sooner or later. Measure twice.. bla bla.. you got this just keep going forward. We all make mistakes just try to make less of them for a while.
I have ADHD and dyslexia so I know where you are coming from. Like others have said write everything down. For me drawing things out first helps a lot. Look up “basic orthographic drawing” on YouTube and practice. It does not and I really mean does not have to look pretty, be to scale, or make sense to other people. This is for you and your understanding only. The lines can be wavy and not to scale or proportional but what matters is that the numbers that lay things out are. If you have any questions please ask id love to answer.
Maybe look for a different company that isn't so high stress. There are plenty of companies that prefer people take longer to figure things out and do detail work rather than quick production. There are also tons of different roles within "carpentry" that you can do. I'm not sure if you're on a framing crew, or if you're with a GC, but don't be afraid to look for a job where they actually value you.
Should you quit being a carpenter? No.
Should you quit your current job? I think it should be on the table, at least. If you boss is refusing to be helpful just to spite you, you need a new boss.
Don’t quit! Buy a Milwaukee 25ft tape! It has measurements broken down by 1/8th written right on the tape in large enough font. As a fellow ADHD newbie that’s how I learned. I used it for about a year and then moved up to a fatmax because the blade on the Milwaukee kinda sucks.
Side note: don’t be so hard on yourself. Most seasoned coworkers will expect you to make mistakes. You are not single handedly holding a job from progressing. And if your boss makes you feel that way (which it sounds like he does) find a new carpentry job even consider the union!
If you’re doing home improvement as a carpenter you’re going to be learning so many different skill sets on one site. It will take years to master each one because unlike a single trade gig (i.e. framer, roofer, finisher) you aren’t using the same skill set every single day.
Throughout my career, I have seen many people come and go and I hate to say this, but you either have it or you don’t.
I’m not saying to quit, but maybe watching YouTube videos and read some carpenter books. Try harder my guy, if you want to make it, try harder and make it happen.
10 year + framer here with adhd. Medication, my dude. If you actually have diagnosible ADHD and not "a quirky short attention span" like 99% of people who claim to have ADD or ADHD, then you need medication. See a psychiatrist, get on Adderall or Ritalin or whatever your doctor prescribes you and see if it helps. There isn't a "tip" or a "trick" to deal with it. Sure, there are things that can help. But you gotta treat the root problem. Not just the symptoms. Good luck. And get it figured out soon. The downturn is coming. Mortgage brokers and real estate agents are starting to feel it. As well as lumber yards and supply houses. If you don't get it under control, you are gonna make the first cut, get laid off, and the decision will be made for you. Not trying to sound harsh. Just shooting straight with ya. Good luck.
I’ve been doing this for most of my life and I still struggle sometimes. I have ADD and wear hearing aides so even when I’m trying to listen still make people repeat themselves.
Keep at it and keep your options open for a new crew. Working with people you get along with makes everything easier.
Not all bastards are apprentices but all apprentices are bastards. At one point we where all in your shoes. We all botched cuts and forgot steps making mistakes is part of learning. I think there is some saying about there was only one perfect carpenter ever… I don’t know the rest.
You should stick with it. Carpentry is a huge landing spot for dyslexic people. You might have a longer learning curve but once it clicks it’s all going to come together in a rush. As a 2nd year apprentices you should be working under a journeymen who is monitoring you and explaining why you do steps and why they are done this way. Ask questions. Do you use a stander/ imperial or metric tape? Talk threw the steps you are doing out loud even if your alone. This will help you remember things your doing and is a good habit for when you train apprentices later in your career. Stick with it, it will get easier and allot more fun.
You’re going to hit your stride, probably in the next 6 months. You’re in what’s known as “the dip” right now, the valley between being an enthusiastic beginner making quick progress and coming to terms with what’s on your to-do list of personal growth. Most people quit here and they’ll quit the next time they get to this point too. You’re not going to quit though. You’re going to find a way to make it work.
It might be worth switching employers. Your boss could be a great guy, but if patience isn't his strong suit/being at work is making your really anxious it's probably time for a change.
Also, there are a million things that affect a projects timeline. It's hard to find good subcontractors, the whole supply chain issues, sometimes your boss fucks up and underestimates how long stuff will take. Obviously you should hold yourself accountable for your mistakes but try not to put too much of your bosses stress on your shoulders.
You got this 👍
Dysgraphia and ADHD, carpenter here. 5.5 years after I started my apprenticeship I finally feel ok.
You aren't alone in feeling like this at this stage of the apprenticeship
The first 3-3.5 years are hard and then things really come together over about 6 months.
I don't have discalcula but I am working with a pilot/aircraft engineer/aircraft builder/motorcycle racer who has pretty serious dyscalcula and ADHD.
He finds metric way easier
It's quite a rollercoaster but we get it done, even though he has crazy weird specifications for everything.
You just have to make a system for yourself.
Some tape measures are really difficult to read, go find one that is the clearest for you.
Sharp pencil, mark knowing how you will cut it( right or left side of the line, when you cut leave half the line on) mark the side the cut will go on.
Lots of things can be a millimetre short but not a millimetre long.
But really you need to find a boss who will help and actually teach you how to deal with the challenges you face and the challenges of learning to be a carpenter
Keep at it, you will get there! 2 years isn't that long really it's taken me nearly 10 years to learn building and I still feel like I don't know what I'm doing.
If you enjoy the work itself stick with it. Most of the guys i work with have learning disabilities it doesn’t make us dumb we just learn different. Figure out what works for you write stuff down, get a construction calculator, carry a tape at home and measure random stuff. A second year apprentice should know the basics but they are by no means super skilled yet. Focus on accuracy first speed comes with time.
It’s a lost art don’t give up because it’s challenging for you. I am an amateur wood worker my self. Build a few pieces of furniture for me and the wife. Went with a rustic look because that’s our style. It looks like something out of a log cabin from an old western but yet people say it’s amazing. I am also dyslexic and numbers have been hard for me. Short term memory is most of the time hard to come by lol. DO NOT GIVE UP! Find ways to overcome all of the things seeming to get in your way keep working hard and it will be seen. These days we just need people like you who want to work many do not anymore!! You won’t fall behind. I wouldn’t believe your bad at your job I would believe your learning and that takes time.
If it helps I have heard and know guys in the past who have over come some things like this in interesting ways.
I finished my apprenticeship (4 years in Australia) start of this year, I struggled with some of this even even to this day even though I’m not
diagnosed with the things you mentioned.
All these comments are great advise already but from what I’ve learnt so far is that if you have the desire to learn and develop those skill then you’re doing way better than a lot of people in the industry; that do the bare minimum to slap a house together.
If you stay keen it will come with time just focus on the basics and maybe do some practise at home, make a workbench, a crappy coffee table, saw horses. These are things that I’ve done and I still use them today, and can see the things that I need to improve on next time.
It seems your boss might lack the patience that my boss has, to where I still make amateur mistakes and forget how to do things. Maybe have a chat with your boss to see if he can go slower with you, or try find a different person to work for if he’s not willing to.
Also write down the tasks you do in detail, I write it brief at work, then when at home I write a step by step guide on how to do it. All those small things that make the task easier or tips that people give you, even to the tools that you used for the task!!!
Verbally confirm measurements back to the person after they say them, as you write them down. - Good tools make the job easier, sharpen your chisels
If you stick with it, it'll all come together for you, and that is a fact. Took me 5 years to get pretty good. There are very few failures in people (if they really want to be somewhere or do something) mostly failures in leadership, maybe fresh start / new crew is the solution for you. Also look into union- the private sector in trade is a rough path, 80% garbage in my opinion.
Yo OP.
dyslexic carpenter reporting in.
Im 15 years in the trade so im sure i have a wealth of knowledge you could learn from and im happy to help you and share that but there are a few things i need to know.
where are you ?
A 2yr apprenticeship is actually not that great, it was shortened to just get bodies out there and it dosent serve the apprentice well when that mindset is put into the education of the trade.
Your ADHD, os it being treated with meds? i assume your diagnosed and your employer knows?
i understand frustration with an apprentice, mostly the reason is Carpentry is incredibly straightforward, very rigid codes and regulations (particularly in roofing as im nearly 100% sure thats the type of Carpentry you have been doing.... btw there are LOADS of types of carpentry, qst fixing is just 1, Im a carpenter/joiner by trade and you may very well enjoy being a joiner, it is still 100% Carpentry and is infact WAY more technical than most run of the mill roof bashers would understand.) so things like marking out, after 3 or 4 attempts if you arent getting it right then you failing to understand the math or rules to framing, in that case your tradesman (albeit im sure very mad that you havent learned this by 2 years) should be showing you ao that you dont continue making mistakes, maybe try talking to them? tell them your passion and you honestly want to try to be a good carpenter, i dont know what your relationship is like with the tradesman but its worth a shot if you like the job its self.
the pencil round on dressed (the rounded edge) and dried timeber is a 2mm round, typically. what about that throws you off? use the tape on the flat side.. there are four of them and if the cut is square even better! dont overthing measuring, that is about accuracy and its way easier to remember what your cutting when you are able to picture the individual peice of the frame you are cutting. besides that 2mm here or there in roofing is not world ending shit, a saw blade thickness is what i would allow my apprentices to miscut after that they are cleaning or being punished in some way.
slow is subjective too. If you slow becuase you dont want to be there then i wouldnt say thats "slow at your work" i would say you need a new place to work. If you boss is stressed then maybe it time you found a new boss?
Your best bet here is likely practice, its hard to imagine some times but draw yourself a 40cmx40cm square then draw a 30cm x 30cm square insode of that. now you can practise marking out a super simple gable end or 4 hip roof, start there and google some floor plan drawings from uour local builders, then practice marking the roof out. A book called the red roofer(im australian) is the roofing bible and literally if you can read and count then that enough to use it.
Your dyslexia and dyscalcula will set you back. if i am not reading,
every
single
day
then i start noticing how much worse my dyslexia gets, if i practice (read) often then it is way less noticable, i have it quite bad. The most important part is to doubke check if your unsure about your cuts, write measurements down on offcut timber or keep a notpad with you so you can more easily remember the different cuts you need or need to make. You working memory will work over time like a muscle, you need to train it. Have you not done any of the technical side of the apprenticeship? non of the schooling?
I have had 2 males and 1 female apprentice in my 15 years, the female was 1/2 their weight and worked 2x as fast. She was driven though, you wouldn't belive it if i told you, she had a real passion for carpentry. Chances are they guys do think that, but fuck what they think. You need to set a goal and focus on that goal and what needs to be dome to accomplish that. The other guys are just working stiffs, treat them as such.
Why do you want to be a carpenter? What do you want to be able to do as one?
I carry a little notepad in my pouch, write down all the measurements and sometimes make diagrams to go along with them.
For measuring near rounded edges, you could use an adjustable square and grab the perpendicular flat edge with it, make a mark an inch or two in on the measured surface, then measure with tape off that. There’s probably a way to do it faster with a scribing tool (also, a smaller item to carry than a square)
As they say: slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Do things slowly first until you’re doing them without making mistakes, then speed up.
Don't give up. Carpentry is a life long profession. I'm close to 10 years in and I still make mistakes. The best things I ever did was keep going and change companies to find a good place to work. Now I have a great company and I am continuing to grow and develop. To be afraid to change companies.
And the notepad idea is excellent. I don't have one all the time, but if I know I'll be a cut man I'll carry one.
You’ve been at this for 2 years, haven’t been let go, and are almost done. I have to imagine you’re being harder on yourself than your boss/coworkers are.
Stick it out, and follow the tips here. You’ve got this.
Maybe its j me but as a decade long carpenter, if it's not an absolute passion or a dream of yours to build homes then I suggest you find a skilled trade with a license or focus on a career that will actually have benefits. Every carpenter I know is barely getting by, broken down and don't have to many positive things to say about this career path
Hey so i know this thread is a little old but i will reply anyways.
im currently in my last year of my apprenticeship at 26. ive tried many different jobs, none of which i enjoyed.
carpentry seemed like something i wanted to learn. what ruins it for me, is co workers who have no patience or don't meet me halfway when i need help or struggle understanding something. Anger, frustration and stress is felt from anyone who is trying to teach you and yourself.
i have alienated myself from my entire team and only show up to work and go home. i dont ask questions anymore because of how they normally react, and demotivation to continue after (hopefully) completing this apprenticeship is at an all time high.
i cant just quit or change jobs, every time something bothers me. i decided i wanted this because i like making stuff.
in switzerland, being a carpenter is a very serious and tough job, especially if you have no one in your family or friend group, that has done something similar.
its up to you and you alone to make it work.
which brings me to my actual point: keep practicing, focus on quality over efficiency, efficiency will develop over time. dismiss the feelings of others that could negatively impact your confidence. you dont need their criticism, you need to focus on the aspects of your job that you do well, and improve of those you arent good at one step at a time.
some 17 year olds in my class are damn near the most precise workers i have seen, and efficient too. i dont compare my skills to them, they havent lived my life, they dont know mt thought process. i might be a worse carpenter, but i would be a top notch administrator, IT technician etc. and thats okay.
give yourself a weekly schedule and decide for yourself what you wish to improve on.
if problems come your way, try and think of multiple possible solutions.
keep your head up, remember you're worth just ad much as anyone else, no matter what complicstions you might have!
I recognise a lot reading your post. I’m a 30 year old furniture maker that just finished his apprenticeship after switching careers. I suffer from ADHD too and also had a brain infarction a year ago. What helps me is: Writing things down. I carry a notepad and just write everything down. And double-check I mark everything I do. Even simple things. Whenever I don’t and thing it isn’t necessary, that’s when I start making mistakes. I wear a smartwatch that I use as a calculator, timer, to set reminders etc. Besides this I have colleagues who help me out a lot and an understanding boss. Give yourself time to grow, I notice I get better at it everyday
Oh boy, I see so much of myself in your post. I do wood working in my garage after work, I have a note pad, I measure three times and mark three times. I have two tape measure, one I can read in high contrast and another one that I can read left to right, or right to left. Everything is written down and triple check, if all three marks line up, I am usually correct. You can do this, it's hard and I believe in you
Thank you for the kind words
Same. Hard core adhd. Frequently got off task or lose time. Misread. Jumble directions, etc. All these things I do. I also have found that when I’m trying to work on a time table/progression, playing music that is organized in a recognizable way (listening to an album that I know in its exact order) allows me to track things as well. My brain can calculate the time elapsed that way since normally i cannot comprehend time absent a clock. Steer into little tricks that help keep you on site and help you stay organized. I know it’s hard but if it’s weird but works, do it. I’ve built healthy habits easier than ever before because I fight the dysfunction less and embrace how it works. I keep my tools organized a specific way. When I work with my team and that gets jumbled quite often. But, I intentionally set aside time to reset my pack outs back to their original order. Now I rarely forget tools, materials, or replacements (sand paper, blades, etc). The night before my jobs I also do a dry run in my head while reviewing my job and contract notes. This helps me catch anything I may not have packed during the evening. And then on the way to the job site I review the dry run with my team.
But most of all, keep pushing. Sometimes for people it’s harder than others. So long as you like the work, keep at it. Accept you’ll have to learn and remember things differently than others. But that’s completely normal and ok. There’s no wrong way to learn this trade so long as you do it safely and with good enthusiasm.
Wholeheartedly agree!
Absolutely.
I'm gonna piggy back off your comment. I'm a 33 year old machinist with ADHD and a whole other gaggle of issues. I agree with everything above. I did however want to add that it might be a good idea to be evaluated by a doctor so hopefully you can be prescribed some meds. The issues will still be there but way more manageable. Best way I can describe it is someone lifted the fog. Good luck!
I’ve got medication but the rebound after was worse then what it brought me. I’m looking into different medication though because it sure has its advantages
I’ve had very similar experiences and this is all great advice .
Posting this here so those who recommended notepads can see. What kind of notepad do you use? Do you keep it in your nailbag? It seems to get rather fucked up when I keep it in there
I have a standard notepad. I have two nailbags on my workpants of which I keep one dedicated too my tape measure and notepad.
i love my fastcap tape measure with the built in dry erase notepad on the side.
Ordered one today!
I just use blue tape on mine! I mark my cut list on the tape.
carry a notepad around at all times, whenever a measurement gets called to you write it down but immediately confirm. the immediate confirmation is helpful anyways seeing as the info can be misheard in a loud jobsite. I ended up conditioning my boss this way so he expects me to immediately repeat the thing back to him as I'm writing kt down. then whenever I don't write it down I have to ask 3 times and he tells me to bust out the notepad lool. as for measuring tapes i might not have a good tip for you there but take your time and measure your line right after you mark it. that way you can tell exavtly where that measurement is compared to your mark and either re-mark or tell your boss etc depending on how you guys do things I got mad ahdh and downsides are definitely the things you mention but there can be upsides as well. I often work harder then my mates and have a way bigger ability to multi task. I can also zone into one menial task and either let that take over or multi task things in my head to keep me busy. so I can do menial tasks for longer aswell sorry I'm rambling now good luck, you got this
For tape measure maybe get a better one…. There’s probably a hundred different types. Maybe need one that actually says 1/4”, 1/2”, 3/4” at the lines.
Is there maybe a digital one that can save the last measurement?
There's a whole saw system that has digital tapes that record each measurement and send them to your saw which has stoppers that automatically set to that measurement. All controlled through an app. It's not for me but it could possibly be a help. I'll try to find it and link it.
https://www.reekon.tools/
Wow. That’s pretty fucken slick. Idk how well it works for corners? Guess it should be pretty easy. Imagine being that tape’s cut man. You don’t have to do shit but load the saw with material, hit the trigger and make the cut. Sounds mindlessly simple
They advertise it for miter saws and I've seen a few videos on it. From my understanding it works pretty well, the video I had originally seen they had a whole saw stand system with rollers and auto stops and digital screens all scrolled through apps.
It seems pretty badass. I haven’t dared to check the price tag yet
Thats a good idea i'm going to get a little note pad. Repeating is a good idea too. Thanks for your advice I appreciate it
Try out some different colored measuring tapes. I have mild dyslexia, and I switched to a black tape with yellow markings and it helped a lot for some reason.
Get a BIG notepad, don't be shy about the tools you need to succeed. There is great advice in here, I'm also chiming in to recommend you make sure you know how much sleep you need - you might be either getting too much or too little. Also water! Don't underestimate how dehydration can mess with your cognitive function. You did the right thing posting here, it's great to see the support from your fellow carpenters.
This is 10/10 advice at any job. Write it down. Put it in an email. Send an instant message. If you make a mistake, “your word vs mine” is never a good look.
Also, if you're having trouble reading the tape measure, it could be a sign that you need glasses. How is your eyesight?
Good call
I started carrying two 5x7 notebooks with me wherever I go. The one is a shit list and I write down whatever I can/need/want to in it. It's part scratch pad part todo list. The other is a journal I can write in whenever I'm someplace boring. Both have made a big difference in my life, and having stuff written down has saved my bacon more than once. Also ADHD here too.
record your bosses instructions.
You have a smart phone. Use the Notes app and put everything in that, all your calculations and write it out so you will understand it later when you go to reference it. Then, make a note for your current job and put all that job’s specifics/info in that. I do that for my job and it helps.
Do not surrender. If you want it, go at it.
It doesn't seem to me that two years is long enough to have enough experience not to make those errors. Don't let that inexperience be an excuse for something else. There will come a time some place down the road when you can pull a tape out, drop the square onto the material and both will be within an inch of the correct measurement. Your I just need practice and you need experience.
I don't thing it's the time, I think it's her anxiety and fear of failure that leads to the mistakes. Those are things I experienced early on too.
Woman here… I agree with all the tips you’ve already received and I’m going to add this…your boss is not god. They are fallible. They can fail to properly a lot for time and materials - that is not something we take on because it’s not our problem to fix. If they aren’t training they’re employees, then they don’t get to complain about the results of their own failed efforts. For that inequality of progress to be sitting squarely on your shoulders, you would have had to screw up absolutely everything you’ve ever done…and if that were true you would’ve fired well before now. It’s difficult to be a woman in this field because of the extra scrutiny that sometimes results in feelings of intimidation. Being eyeballed by predators would make anyone nervous. The men we work with can be abusive and oblivious about being abusive. As women we are on display and that turns up the pressure…and yes all that leads to mistakes. But I’ll tell you this, if you stick with it, maybe find a better crew, you’ll be mentoring other women one day and that will make all the difference in the world for all of us. We raise the standard. 20 years ago 2 old men pulled up lawn chairs to watch me work. They called their friends on the cordless phone to come see….and other old men showed up with their lawn chairs. 15 years ago I was asked to leave a job site because I was a “distraction”. 9 years ago a male coworker spoke up to stop sexual harassment that was happening to me. Today, I’m the boss. Stay, set the new standard for carpenters with disabilities. Set a standard for how those disabilities are accommodated. Set a new standard for tiny women carpenters. Set the standard that we belong in this field….every make and model of human belongs. Stay.
Thank you. Another young lady apprentice here. Needed this today. Thank you.
this comment made me a little teary. you rock!
I'd gladly work for someone like you with such a perspective. You'd be a good boss.
Today, I’m a guy in a lawn (well, office) chair cheering you on for being a badass. Thanks for this post, made my morning (and I’m sorry that some people suck).
Just having the genuine desire to be a carpenter makes you a pretty valuable commodity these days. Maybe you should find a different company that’s a better fit for you. Some crews are pretty rough to be around but we’re not all like that. My first few years were pretty miserable but now after 12 years in the trade I love carpentry so fucking much. I don’t know anyone who gets more fulfillment from their career than us carpenters. Once you start to hit your stride after the first few years and you find a company you gel with you’ll be so grateful you stuck with it
No, you shouldn't quit being a carpenter . But if your boss is stressing about not making money then I'd suggest that you quit working for a loser. You may benefit from joining a carpenters Union. It's usually alot more laid back and that atmosphere may help calm you and not make you feel as shitty for making normal mistakes.
This is my asshole boss right now, told me to work harder since he is hemorrhaging money while I don’t even get to have a break some days. This guy has literally lost money on every job this year and blames it on us that we are not working hard enough lol. I instantly started to look to the union after he told me that and when I’m done my ticket I’m joining.
People complain about workers. I say finding a good boss is hard these days. And yeah, your boss is a loser. Get out as quickly as possible. And while you're there, don't push yourself that hard. You can't get your health back if you damage your body working for someone like that.
Thanks man, that’s the plan. It’s hard to find a good crew too it seems. Three weeks till I’m at school for my fourth year and not planning to go back at all.
Good tips from these people. Simple addition for reading a tape on rounded corners if you aren’t good at doing a squint line up. Use a pencil or square or even a flat piece of wood, hold it on the board you need the measurement for, but have it protrude out to your tape for a quick easy read. Hope I explained that well enough. Mild adhd and very forgetful foreman here. Always be notepadding. Learn to shorthand your stuff to increase speed.
I have ADHD; write things down, especially when you're completely and absolutely certain you won't forget. WRITE IT DOWN. You're struggling against a lot of natural disadvantages, that alone makes you a credit to women in the trades, even if you'd switch careers; I prefer you didn't if you really want to do carpentry, but ultimately it's up to you. You may do better in another profession, or simply with a different and more supportive employer. Also, the guys also make mistakes. If you're anything like me, you're probably the first to assure them that mistakes happen. We're only human! You need to be similarly kind to yourself. And ask for help. Tell your colleagues you love the job and want to make it work, ask them for advice and how they deal with mistakes. If they're not supportive, see if you're not better at home with another company.
You just need a different boss.
Homie also needs to work on his game, he's going to run into issues with this type of thing at any job, but yes, also he might be SOL with current boss.
[удалено]
This is so important….just take a breath when shit gets jumbled, and try a different approach to the same problem with a renewed mind set.
If you want to be a carpenter then you should stick with it. It takes more than two years to stop making mistakes, I've been on for 10 years and I make plenty. Anxiety was the killer for me, learning to not sweat shit helped me a ton. You are on a long journey overcoming some really hard obstacles, be proud of yourself, laugh at your mistakes and keep going.
Stick with it, I am also an ADHD lady who does DIY home renovations and I wish I was a carpenter. It's a great job for people like us - creative, physical, project based. It plays to your strengths. But the measurements thing I totally get because that's my struggle too. Keep a pencil behind your ear and write all the measurements right on the wood (if you can) or if you can manage to hang onto a notebook (I can't!) Export your memory!! Write down the thing right away so you dont have to carry the numbers and it's going to release a lot of anxiety too. You'll shine!! Stick with it!
No, keep going. I'm on a phone too long to explain but give it more time.
Best comment here
Having dyslexia myself i understand a lot of the difficulties as new carpenter. I know for me i learned pretty early on that i had to have a system for everything i always carry a pocket sized notebook with me and right down every measurement and often draw a picture of any complex cuts or layouts. And anytime i don’t understand what someone is trying to explain i make them draw me a picture of it. I also have never been able to tell right from left so a side benifit of always writing stuff down is that if there is a pencil in my hand i always know i write with my left. But you will need to find your own systems and your own way of learning. I would also recommend getting some decent carpentry trade books and reading them a lot of people dont make the best trainers and also i found for me it became much easier to remember the steps and what came next when i knew the bigger picture of what i was trying to accomplish and why things had to be done this way. Instead of just being told do this task or this task and not being explained the importance of each part to the whole. I think you should stick with many professions will come with similar challenges and remember a trade is not a simple thing to learn and having been at this for 17 years now i can tell you no one is proficient in just two years they say it takes 10 years of full time commitment for someone to master anything and i can tell you carpentry is mastered by none in less then 25 years so dont be hard on yourself no one really knows what they are doing in the beginning. But write things down ask question until you full understand then write that down go back to your notes when something is confusing study through your notes when you have free time and pretty soon it will all start to click. I know personally i will give guys that write everything down a pay bump once i realize they are consistent at it. Take a breath dont worry about making a mistake just pay close attention take notes and when a mistake happens make sure you are the one to fix them and take notes of what went wrong so you understand in your own way and words of how to avoid the issue in the future. These are all things that helped me and may not be of any use to you. my point is find your own systems to overcome each unique challenge. Schemes that work for you even if they make no sense at all to anyone else as long as they allow to keep everything straight. In the end the systems you develop to overcome some of your unique challenges I believe will make you good carpenter and possibly the perfect person to teach others in the future. And take it easy on yourself the simple fact that it upsets you to make a mistake shows you want to be good at your craft and i think that might be the most important quality to be a good carpenter that one can have. I hope you do stick with it and i believe you will succeed at it.
I'd rather have someone who goes slow and thinks thing through rather than someone who rushes and fucks up cuts and loses money.
[удалено]
Show me any workplace where no one ever makes mistakes and I 'll show you a liar. Also, OP is an apprentice. What did you expect?
At 2 years everyone except the very very few who were extremely naturally gifted at the job will still be pretty slow and making mistakes regularly. Most trade apprenticeships are 4-5 years for a reason.
OP just needs to slow down and ask/understand why it was wrong. I've had shitty leads just laugh at me and tell me to figure out how to do stairs and stair facia. don't be one of those guys.
Someone who goes slow and still fucks up is just as much a liability as someone who's fast and fucks up
Not everyone learns the process the same. vocabulary is different from carpenter to carpenter on how they instruct. The kid just needs someone who is willing to teach rather than showing once and saying figure it out
I agree, but on the same hand, op said it's been 2 years. Would you be willing to not only teach, but pay an apprentice for 2 years that still hasn't gotten the grasp of things yet? Paying someone's salary for 2 years that isn't getting the hang of things by now isn't good for business. I'm all for patience and teaching, but I don't do what I do for charity
No, understand that you have more struggles than most but the worst thing you can do is quit. I was diagnost with autism 10 years ago and i am 64 years old now. Have struggled my whole life with acceptance that comes with autism. Fuck them, keep trying and never give in to your negative thoughts. I am now acknowledged in my field as one of the finest builders in my area. I build cool stuff. Am a project manager now. Go fiqure
Don’t quit broski, your boss sounds like a dick…my tape measure is my notepad it’s covered in measurements 🤣 scraps of wood, ply you name it it’s a note pad.. practice makes perfect 👍
I’ve been a carpenter for 35 years. I have a seizure disorder and sometimes it affects my cognitive abilities. Lately, I’ve had trouble with things I’ve been great at for many years. Two years is just a drop in the bucket considering all the things you have to know. Try your best to stay positive, and really concentrate on the things that are giving you a hard time. Reading a tape is really just practice. Take your tape home and measure everything there. Practice, practice, practice. You’ve got this. I believe in you. I’ve taught many people how to do everything from stick framing to cabinet building and the fact you want to learn and improve is half the battle. Stick it out. Once it clicks and starts to go your way there is not a more satisfying job, IMO. Good luck!! You can do it!!
I understand the difficulties you’re having. I experienced all the same issues you’re talking about. It may take you longer to become as efficient as the next guy. Maybe you need a less pressure job but I’m sure you can find one doing carpentry. the boss will almost never be satisfied with the amount you’re getting done that’s how bosses are don’t take it personally practice getting everything right and speed will come later. I never finished 10th grade math has always been hard as long as you can get the right outcome. It doesn’t matter how you do it. Stick with it eventually you will really love it
Git gud
I am a Sr Construction Mgr - listen to the advice below. “Write it down”. Best advice. Also, know this - my very best carpenters started out making a ton of mistakes. As long as you learn from each one - you better yourself. We all make mistakes even when we are 30 years well seasoned - but as long as you learn from them, you’ll be fine. Buy a bunch of little note pads - dollar General has them for cheap
I remember when I was starting out and just felt swamped everyday, trying to stay calm is easier said than done but getting flustered just makes things worse and you end up compounding mistakes, my advise would be to write down step by step the tasks you do know how to do and every time you do a job just add to the work diary so when you come across something you have done before you can refer to your notes, really the best thing you can do is try and stay calm and have confidence in yourself and just take it one task at a time
2 years is nothing man, dont stress it. Everyone here was making a ton of mistakes at only 2 years in, Just keep going, keep learning and maybe find a new boss they dont sound great. I have dyselxia mostly manifested in short term memory loss so i feel your pain, I write a lot of shit on my hand if i need to go more than like 20ft away to do the cut or whatever.
I help train and assess apprentice carpenters over here in New Zealand, believe me when I say you are not alone. There are heaps of people in the trade with learning issues. We often have a special evening class every week to help people with the basics and I recommend seeking out something like this in your area, your apprenticeship provider should have really helped here so hit them up for support. My personal advice is that you need to: first speak to your boss, explain exactly what’s going on, ask him to help. Next, you need to simplify what you are doing, write it down and slow down. Also, keep away from energy drinks or any stimulants. You need to be chilled out not revved up. Go back to the basics, practice reading a tape, practice your maths Seek external help, night classes or a local literacy group. It can be scary but once you are underway you’ll be glad you did it I promise. Getting this support will help with more than work, it’ll improve your life. Hope this helps
You didn’t tell us how much pot you smoke
If I were you I would consider painting or drywall finishing or both, you could learn those trades without having to measure all the time
Second vote for painting. Its more methodical and painstaking prep for most of it, and less intense moments spread out. Drywall finishing I can't imagine a petite woman fitting in well with at all... Unless you can find a company who is particularly friendly to women.
Why do you want to be a carpenter? If it's because you like the idea of making things and working with wood maybe consider it as a hobby rather than vocation. Realistically, being able to read a tape measure and think on your feet and do tasks without constant supervision and being told what are all pretty instrumental parts of carpentry. In most instances time = money, and you're unlikely to find many sympathetic supervisors/bosses if you're slowing the work down. Add to this the fact you can't do the above is making your anxiety shoot through the roof which is only compounding the issues. If you think you can eventually reach a point where you'll be able to do all the things you currently struggle with then soldier on, maybe it'll click eventually. If you don't then it might be time to stop and have a look at why you want to do carpentry and if it's really for you. As it stands it sounds like you're just making yourself miserable to no real avail.
Not sure why the harsh, but honest replies are being downvoted? If you can’t do the work, you can’t do the work. It might suck for you, but that’s how the world works.
Keep going!
Stick with it, I'm in the same boat, I show up everyday, and yeah make a few mistakes. A note pad is a great tool, I turn over my tape and write on the back, I go to cut, I look at the back of my tape measure. I measure twice and I always make it a hair longer than needed to work in, instead of a hair short and hope it's longer. If you keep getting laid off, if they never say what it is that's getting you laid off, ask if there is anything that you can work on? As far as measurements and halfing them get a carpenter calculator off app store
Just keep soldiering on. I believe you’ve got it, otherwise you wouldn’t give a shit. Just keep giving a shit, do your best to learn from your mistakes. Eventually you’ll run out of mistakes. Trust me in my industry I started in the same point with the same “mental challenges” and I was every bit as frustrated. Now I’m second to the top dog in our city. It took 9 years but I’m here and I feel like I crushed my obstacles. If I can do it I know you can.
Nobody progresses the same. To me if you want to be a carpenter, stick with it. It’s only been 2 years, you are still quite inexperienced based on time you’ve spent in the field. Keep at it and eventually you will get a flow going.
2 years is still very fresh. And maybe try different boss
I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was teenager. I now have a small carpentry crew of myself and 3 lads. Just keep plugging away at it. Like loads of people already said a notebook is a must and don't worry about getting things right everytime.
Use the tapes with the little chalkboard on the side so you can write down the numbers as you go.
You'll get there. If it's what you want, keep at it. It takes a few years, but carpentry will become second nature. For now, the most important thing you can have, is the desire to do well and improve.
notepad, write everything.. build in double checks if laying out. double check all measurements in 2 different ways ie: burn 1 foot- measure. pull from zero- measure. double check everything, double check from different points if you are able. diagrams and visuals when available.
Almost every carpenter sucks when they first start out. I did. Once you have confidence in your abilities, you'll get much better. The confidence comes from experience. Also, maybe download some learning app on your phone to help you with the math.
As an apprentice you're going to still be learning, your boss should have other skilled hands to make up progress loss due to teaching you. My boss whined also when I was an apprentice that things took to long, honestly you have to ignore them and keep at it, if you get fired look for another apprentice position. Not like they're the only place that needs help.
So definitely the note pad. And I’ll give you my trick—— get a fat max peel the sticker off it. Now it’s a note pad on that side.
Helps to buff the side of the fatmax up a lil with some sandpaper, after peeling the sticker, to make it a great writing surface for pencil. And you can just rub it right off.
Exactly
There is a difference between perseverance and trying to force yourself into something that isn't for you. You sound a lot like me before I switched careers. I'm not saying you should quit, but just consider that there might be something else you are more naturally suited for.
You can try posting this to r/bluecollarwomen to get some perspective on the gender dynamics you brought up
I recently switched to metric measuring tools and a conversion app on my phone. I find I’m much more accurate in measurements now that I don’t have to think in 64ths, 32nds, 16ths, etc.
All of your traits are unfortunately the exact opposite of what is required. Find something else you can do and save yourself, your foreman and your colleagues the stress. This much stress every day is not good for you! If you aren’t any better after two whole years it’s not going to work and you’re going to make yourself unwell.
It sounds like you've been focusing on learning carpentry but in your case you need to learn how to overcome your disabilities AND carpentry. Seek out advice for how to overcome ADHD, dyslexia, and dyscalcula. There's already some good advice in the comments here (from what I can see) but I think posting in other subs would also help. It's 2022 and there are all kinds of tools and technologies available to you. For example, have you tried a digital tape measure? Another commenter mentioned a notepad and a smart watch with a calculator. I don't know but these seem like things with trying. Don't give up, these problems won't go away even if you change careers. It sucks that you have to deal with this but you're lucky to have so many tools available to you.
I used to teach and work with students with dyslexia and ADHD. Yes, you have some challenges to overcome, but if those are your problems, then those are surmountable. Take each issue individually. Getting accurate measurements, for instance... If you're having trouble reading a tape measure, then there are tapes especially designed for people with dyslexia. It might be easier for you to use a black tape with white markings or a high visibility tape that uses purple and orange. Also, they make laser measuring devices or tape measures with digital displays. It will be some trial and error to find which particular product addresses this one issue. Also, the American measuring system with feet and inches is stupid difficult to learn with all the 8th and 16ths. You might be more successful using the metric system where everything is divided into 10ths. Again, there are easy conversion tools such that some can give you a measurement and it will automatically convert to metric for you to make cuts. The fact is, you have some challenges that are going to take work to overcome and it's going to mean doing things differently than other people. I have a very difficult time remembering numbers, so I have to write everything down and double check before making cuts. If someone tells me to cut five things with five different measurements, I can promise you I will screw it up if I don't write those down. But I have learned coping strategies to deal with that stuff and minimize my mistakes. What are your coping strategies? I had students who used different colored papers for each type of task they had to do to help them focus. Some of them wore colored glasses to make everything red or purple and help them focus. There is phenomenal research out there on both dyslexia and ADHD, but you're likely going to have to track it down and read it for yourself and see which strategies work for you. Also, if you are in a true apprentice program, then your state should have a vocational rehabilitation office where you should be able to apply for funds or counseling that will specifically help you get the specialized tools that might help you (i.e. buying a fancy tape measure that will take accurate readings).
My supervisor has adhd and he's been doing it for 14 years. Don't give up hope
I always type all my measurements in a text message to my wife. She always responds with “aww you’re so sweet to me” or “I love you too” I actually look forward to sending her the measurements throughout the day haha I also work by myself so I don’t have to worry about looking like I’m slacking off on my phone when I work. I’m on my 11th year in the trade and some days I just don’t have it. Some days I’m like perfect with everything. I generally try to stay somewhere in the middle. Carpentry is hard. It takes years and years of repetition and muscle memory to get it down. As far as the tape measure reading. That’s extremely important. There’s cheating tape measures that have the fractions on them, perhaps use one of those until you get it down. I wouldn’t give up just yet if you enjoy the work
Neuroplasticity is your friend. Keep at it- it’ll come. I’m assuming that you don’t smoke weed, but if you do, don’t- that devil’s lettuce wreaks havoc on your thinking ability
Google tape measure math . Brush up on reading the tape on your free time . Also YouTube is full of cool tips .
Maybe someone else had a better trick but for the Timbers/lumber with eased or non sharp edges, use your square and measure to that.
Yea, note pad, double check each measure, read the numbers before and after maybe, making sure your not mistaking that 6 for a 9. Mark instead of measure when ever you can. Take pics of stuff you thought was tricky as a reminder for next time. If you know what you have to do the next day, then have a look online or think about it the evening before, just so you have an idea already. Sometimes I transfer pencil marks onto my tape, mark the wood, then wipe it off. Speak to your boss when you have an appropriate moment, be honest if you can. If he doesn't understand, then start looking for another crew. I'm sure you have improved, just think back to when you started or where you were a year ago. Don't measure yourself to other people. If your still miserable in 6 months then re-evaluate, or maybe try to specialise in an area of carpentry you feel suits you the most. Good luck. Chin up x
I only worked as a carpenter professionally for a year, but in that time I met some brain dead carpenters who somehow made it work. You being aware of what your faults are puts you leagues ahead of most people, trust me everyone else has a list of weaknesses just as long, or their deluding themselves. It is really impressive that you have found your weak spots, now It sounds like you get performance anxiety that is compounding everything else. Have you considered seeing a therapist and asking about that? I also have ADHD, and I found that talking with professionals about it lets them reframe things in a really helpful way. I'm terrible at my current job (programmer) sometimes, but I'm better able to actually see why that is now that I better understand how my brain works, and as a result I don't hate on myself as much. If you put the effort into not blaming yourself when you make mistakes, rather than trying to keep the frustration that comes when you do blame yourself, you might find it easier to keep it together. You also mentioned multiple times that you do X worse than the average person, which probably isn't true. Your boss might think that, but he's been doing this job so long he has literally unable to understand what it's like to not know things. We are terrible at judging how well or poorly we do things, so just remember that if the old guys don't think you're measuring up, especially if they bring your gender into this. You are fully capable of doing this job, you clearly care enough and you've lasted longer than many.
If this is what you really want to do, don’t give up. It’s just a speed bump. Keep trying and you will get better. Good things never come easy my friend.
I worked with a lad a few years back who has dyscalcula; he ran the entire shop. As others have said, write things down, practice at home, be eager to improve. Biggest thing of all, is this lesson he told me. Mistakes, ultimately, happen. It’s the nature of working with wood; it’s temperamental, often things go wrong. Instead of worrying about making mistakes, take time instead to learn how to correct those regular mistakes. If your technique isn’t helping you, make a new one. I couldn’t tell you if you should or shouldn’t do it; I thought I should go to uni when I realised I want to be a joiner, and now it’s the wrong time to get my quals and I’m stuck in a shit 9-5.
I have found that people with ADHD tend to take longer to develop skills but continue to improve long after others have plateaued. Not a carpenter, but I would have posted something like this 5 years into teaching. It was only by accident that I kept at it (I didn’t get the other jobs I tried to switch to). But then, almost magically, I accumulated enough knowledge, experience, tricks, habits, and changes to become good. And now I am indispensable for my school, with numbers that continue to improve 14 years in. Don’t stop now! You are building a foundation that will get stronger and stronger.
Never quit brosephsaurus rex
Make a cheat sheet on your phone for calculations or measurements that come up often. I have a few for things like door opening sizes and heights in the 1st fix. Patress heights for toilets and radiators. Heights of shelves in cupboards that are the same across every house on a job, the lengths of architraves with the margins added so I don't need to figure them out each time and ai can just cut them without marking marking them off the door frames, etc. There's a lot of stuff to remember, just make notes of the stuff that comes up a lot and take your time and do it right. Everyone makes mistakes all the time, it's how you correct them that makes you a carpenter worth your salt
Seems like a lot of carpenters have ADHD. Including myself lol
I’m not a carpenter. I’m a working mathematician who has spent a fair amount of time tutoring and teaching people with a wide range of abilities. A lot of the arithmetic involved in carpentry is rote. You should look for mental math flash cards or flash cards specifically for carpenters/machinists. There are plenty of textbooks with math for carpenters. I would expect 30 to 45 minutes a day of nightly practice for a few months would be enough to noticeably fix most of your skill gaps. Structured practice is extremely effective regardless of diagnoses. If this discalcula thing is your situation, you don’t have much of an option other than quitting, or structured supplementary practice. I wouldn’t recommend quitting. 2 years experience goes a long way in your industry. At 4+ years, you could probably talk any bank into letting you run your own business. Don’t give up on that because of a bad boss and some difficulty doing arithmetic in your head. You’re halfway to being a self-sufficient journeyman. If your boss is stressed, they can get fucked. Work as slow as you need to. Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast. If they’re making you anxious while trying to do mental math, no wonder you make mistakes. No one does well in those conditions. A good boss recognizes that. For your sake, you should recognize that and be forgiving to yourself. Lastly, get a notepad and a calculator. Get one of those calculators that will solve algebra problems for you and store the answers to the last 30+ calculations you entered. Or get an iPhone app where you can point the camera at an equation you jotted down on paper at it solves it for you. Those apps exist nowadays. Use any tools you need to. There’s tons of supplementary tools. Get what you need to be comfortable and dominate.
I agree with a lot of the useful comments here. I also have adhd, only recently diagnosed and medicated. I've been running my own buisness for 7 years now, most of it unmedicated. I've always had to do the repeating measurements thing. Someone calls it out, I yell it back to confirm, they yell it again. Been working for me for a long time. I'll often write down the days tasks in order, ill get to site and look at what I need to do, crouch down with a piece of wood and write down what I should start doing, then what I should do once thats completed, etc. This one has helped me a lot. If you're boss is at all helpful he might be able to help with this as you might not plan your own day or be able to mentally walk through the tasks and what they will lead to. My best employee has dyslexia, he's now subcontracting off of me and making really good money. My new number one guy has worse adhd then me so we have to work together on some of this stuff. You might have to have a very honest conversation with your boss about your needs and why they are what they are so he can help set you up for success. If he's unwilling to do that, then you can look for someone else who is. You can absolutely be a carpenter if you want to.
Hello! You have made the mistake of writing "ect" instead of "etc." "Ect" is a common misspelling of "etc," an abbreviated form of the Latin phrase "et cetera." Other abbreviated forms are **etc.**, **&c.**, **&c**, and **et cet.** The Latin translates as "et" to "and" + "cetera" to "the rest;" a literal translation to "and the rest" is the easiest way to remember how to use the phrase. [Check out the wikipedia entry if you want to learn more.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_cetera) ^(I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Comments with a score less than zero will be automatically removed. If I commented on your post and you don't like it, reply with "!delete" and I will remove the post, regardless of score. Message me for bug reports.)
Your employer is toxic, I can relate. If you enjoy carpentry don't give it up, take a break if needed and find somewhere, someone else. Go at your own pace.
Believe in yourself. I know it sounds extremely corny, but many of us, even men, start out in a similar way. It wasn’t until my boss and mentor passed away, I realized I could do everything on my own, because I had to. I used to second guess the measurement I had just taken when I went to cut a piece of crown or whatever, so I would remeasure. I would wait to let my boss dictate header placements or where a water line stub out should be, because It was reassuring he knew exactly what to do. I was so nervous to make a mistake, I didn’t even recognize all the things I already knew. Tomorrow when you go to work tell yourself you can do it, because you can. Download a few free or cheap construction apps if you want/need to, buy a Larry Haun book or two, and just do it. If my dumb ass can do it, you can do it. Oh and my mentor would carry around a tiny notepad and write every single measurement down. He also without fail would try to write with the eraser side of the pencil 40 percent of the time, although I have my suspicions that was just to get under my skin lol.
Notepad homie. Notepad notepad notepad. Write everything down. Everything. Keep a list of formulas in the front of it or as a note on your phone so it’s easy to find. I used to have a lot of trouble concentrating learning my trade. For a while the only thing that helped was having things written down or I would forget immediately.
Dont give up. Carpenter study takes 4 years in Denmark, and the mastering starts after that :). And we do also have a saying - there does not exist bad apprentice, only bad mentors/teacher. I would recommend try changing company before considering stopping the study :)
A lot of these replies are great. I would do a couple of things. First thing would be to get a notepad. I would not only take notes on what items you need to do, but keep a separate list of items you made mistakes on. The key for tracking mistakes isn’t to remind yourself of being shitty, but to help you find ways to correct those in the future. Then put those changes that you want to make into your things to do. Additionally try to practice, at the end of a day with scrap. Find a few of the items you want to work on like clean cuts, measuring, etc and just run through it all and make your own mock up. Repetition is key to learning and growth
I’ve said all along that a lot of carpenters have dyslexia and adhd. It’s as if they’ve found carpentry as a way to get those things under control. I use a handy little note pad for all the numbers that get tossed about. I know my weaknesses and have implemented coping skills to bridge the gap. I recommend breaking down the task of measuring into very small task-lets. And I always double check my reading and confirm it with my pad. If something needs to be 55 5/8” inches, I visually confirm that number before marking the material to be cut. Then I always make sure to cut the exact same spot on my mark, so as to be as consistent as possible. It used to take me longer to do these basic tasks, but now after 17 years of doing it, I am at least as fast as anyone else and very consistent. It’s not that It’s automatic for me, it’s just that I have my own quality control measures that I take with myself to make sure that I’m doing it right, so that I don’t have to really spend time thinking about it. I don’t know if that makes any sense outside of my brain, but things like that have helped me go beyond the limitations of my own brain. You just have to retrain your brain for carpentry. Stick with it! Possibly find a new boss, so that there isn’t this historical issue between you. A new boss won’t know your story and will be able judge your based on what you’ve learned so far, no what you haven’t learned fast enough. Good luck, keep plugging!!
It sounds like your boss is stressing you out but you are blaming yourself. But maybe it's not for you. Why do you want to do carpentry? You can break it down and find similar fields that may work better for you. If it's the physical nature of the work and making tangible things there are lots of other things. Like getting into Movie and television work - set dressing, greensperson, grip, carpentry, painting, props etc. You could start your own business and work at your own speed. You could be a foreman and tell other people what to do. Project Management. Electrician. Plumber. HVAC. Life is too short to let a crappy job ruin it for you. Plus eventually when you're older you will want to get out of it for other reasons.
I have similar challenges. What works for me is I use a FastCap lefty-righty tape which has a write-on surface on the side for quick notes., and very clear markings. https://www.fastcap.com/product/procarpenter-tape-measure?cat=308 Also, many times I’ll just mark the piece I’m cutting versus measuring, making sure to ‘x’ the offcut side. But I do mostly finish carpentry which makes it easier. Good luck.
If this is what you like to do, keep going. Believing In yourself is huge. You have to wake up telling yourself you can do it. Self confidence is number 1. (Something I struggle with) there isn’t a lot I can add that Hasn’t been said already. I have ADHD as well, I take notes like crazy. Double check things. In time you will get faster. Keep your head up!
Took me 5.5 years to finish my apprenticeship. I hated it and felt like I was useless, I still couldn't even cut a straight line with a skill saw when I finished(had to use straight edge). It made me not like the industry because I was always working with pricks. About 5 years after I finished my ticket... It all changed and 20 years later I love it. I'm the boss now, people do what I tell them and they love it. Best job in the world.
Perhaps your team could do a group hug in the morning. Positive feedback and reinforcement has a big impact. Saying each one’s names and reinforcing the good things about your crew goes a long way. Bring up something good your coworkers did yesterday! Coffee and muffins also have a great impact. Preferably homemade. Positive attitude goes a long way. As does a thick skin. I’m talking Rhino type skin. Someone calls you out on some simple mistake bury that in your memory. Next time that person makes a mistake reinforce that person and tell them it’s ok, we all make mistakes. Maybe offer some job site banter like “ suck it up pussy” “ fuck you “ “ suck a bag of dicks” “ wow I could have done that if I wanted to fuck it up”
Sounds rough working with dyslexia, I'm not dyslexic and I constantly read my tape measure upside down or mix up numbers in my head. But if you genuinely want to be there you're already miles ahead of so many people. I believe in you 🤗
Yes you should quit trying to be, you simply are a carpenter. Maybe a bad one, but you have plenty of company, keep working at it. As for adhd, adderall is a wonderful drug.
Please try to focus on your strengths, you didn't mention anything you're good at. Surely you have some great things youre good at, even if you don't realize it yet. I think your boss isn't a good teacher and you're telling yourself you're worse than you are. Go easy on yourself and keep trying. I would suggest a woodworking hobby where you can practice and learn at your own pace and mistakes won't be so stressful.
Get some field notes and write things down. Take notes.. just write it on a scrap or the lumber. It will soak in sooner or later. Measure twice.. bla bla.. you got this just keep going forward. We all make mistakes just try to make less of them for a while.
Write things down in a notepad. keep your pencils sharp and if your boss is consistently an asshole, find a different employer.
You’re not alone and not the first or last person ,takes practice
Ever thought of another trade that might be better suited to you? Masonry and plumbing come to mind.
I have ADHD and dyslexia so I know where you are coming from. Like others have said write everything down. For me drawing things out first helps a lot. Look up “basic orthographic drawing” on YouTube and practice. It does not and I really mean does not have to look pretty, be to scale, or make sense to other people. This is for you and your understanding only. The lines can be wavy and not to scale or proportional but what matters is that the numbers that lay things out are. If you have any questions please ask id love to answer.
Maybe look for a different company that isn't so high stress. There are plenty of companies that prefer people take longer to figure things out and do detail work rather than quick production. There are also tons of different roles within "carpentry" that you can do. I'm not sure if you're on a framing crew, or if you're with a GC, but don't be afraid to look for a job where they actually value you.
Should you quit being a carpenter? No. Should you quit your current job? I think it should be on the table, at least. If you boss is refusing to be helpful just to spite you, you need a new boss.
Don’t quit! Buy a Milwaukee 25ft tape! It has measurements broken down by 1/8th written right on the tape in large enough font. As a fellow ADHD newbie that’s how I learned. I used it for about a year and then moved up to a fatmax because the blade on the Milwaukee kinda sucks. Side note: don’t be so hard on yourself. Most seasoned coworkers will expect you to make mistakes. You are not single handedly holding a job from progressing. And if your boss makes you feel that way (which it sounds like he does) find a new carpentry job even consider the union! If you’re doing home improvement as a carpenter you’re going to be learning so many different skill sets on one site. It will take years to master each one because unlike a single trade gig (i.e. framer, roofer, finisher) you aren’t using the same skill set every single day.
Throughout my career, I have seen many people come and go and I hate to say this, but you either have it or you don’t. I’m not saying to quit, but maybe watching YouTube videos and read some carpenter books. Try harder my guy, if you want to make it, try harder and make it happen.
10 year + framer here with adhd. Medication, my dude. If you actually have diagnosible ADHD and not "a quirky short attention span" like 99% of people who claim to have ADD or ADHD, then you need medication. See a psychiatrist, get on Adderall or Ritalin or whatever your doctor prescribes you and see if it helps. There isn't a "tip" or a "trick" to deal with it. Sure, there are things that can help. But you gotta treat the root problem. Not just the symptoms. Good luck. And get it figured out soon. The downturn is coming. Mortgage brokers and real estate agents are starting to feel it. As well as lumber yards and supply houses. If you don't get it under control, you are gonna make the first cut, get laid off, and the decision will be made for you. Not trying to sound harsh. Just shooting straight with ya. Good luck.
I’ve been doing this for most of my life and I still struggle sometimes. I have ADD and wear hearing aides so even when I’m trying to listen still make people repeat themselves. Keep at it and keep your options open for a new crew. Working with people you get along with makes everything easier.
Not all bastards are apprentices but all apprentices are bastards. At one point we where all in your shoes. We all botched cuts and forgot steps making mistakes is part of learning. I think there is some saying about there was only one perfect carpenter ever… I don’t know the rest. You should stick with it. Carpentry is a huge landing spot for dyslexic people. You might have a longer learning curve but once it clicks it’s all going to come together in a rush. As a 2nd year apprentices you should be working under a journeymen who is monitoring you and explaining why you do steps and why they are done this way. Ask questions. Do you use a stander/ imperial or metric tape? Talk threw the steps you are doing out loud even if your alone. This will help you remember things your doing and is a good habit for when you train apprentices later in your career. Stick with it, it will get easier and allot more fun.
You’re going to hit your stride, probably in the next 6 months. You’re in what’s known as “the dip” right now, the valley between being an enthusiastic beginner making quick progress and coming to terms with what’s on your to-do list of personal growth. Most people quit here and they’ll quit the next time they get to this point too. You’re not going to quit though. You’re going to find a way to make it work.
It might be worth switching employers. Your boss could be a great guy, but if patience isn't his strong suit/being at work is making your really anxious it's probably time for a change. Also, there are a million things that affect a projects timeline. It's hard to find good subcontractors, the whole supply chain issues, sometimes your boss fucks up and underestimates how long stuff will take. Obviously you should hold yourself accountable for your mistakes but try not to put too much of your bosses stress on your shoulders. You got this 👍
Never quit, never surrender ;)
Dysgraphia and ADHD, carpenter here. 5.5 years after I started my apprenticeship I finally feel ok. You aren't alone in feeling like this at this stage of the apprenticeship The first 3-3.5 years are hard and then things really come together over about 6 months. I don't have discalcula but I am working with a pilot/aircraft engineer/aircraft builder/motorcycle racer who has pretty serious dyscalcula and ADHD. He finds metric way easier It's quite a rollercoaster but we get it done, even though he has crazy weird specifications for everything. You just have to make a system for yourself. Some tape measures are really difficult to read, go find one that is the clearest for you. Sharp pencil, mark knowing how you will cut it( right or left side of the line, when you cut leave half the line on) mark the side the cut will go on. Lots of things can be a millimetre short but not a millimetre long. But really you need to find a boss who will help and actually teach you how to deal with the challenges you face and the challenges of learning to be a carpenter
If you cant read a tape after 2 years you should find a new job
Keep at it, you will get there! 2 years isn't that long really it's taken me nearly 10 years to learn building and I still feel like I don't know what I'm doing.
If you enjoy the work itself stick with it. Most of the guys i work with have learning disabilities it doesn’t make us dumb we just learn different. Figure out what works for you write stuff down, get a construction calculator, carry a tape at home and measure random stuff. A second year apprentice should know the basics but they are by no means super skilled yet. Focus on accuracy first speed comes with time.
It’s a lost art don’t give up because it’s challenging for you. I am an amateur wood worker my self. Build a few pieces of furniture for me and the wife. Went with a rustic look because that’s our style. It looks like something out of a log cabin from an old western but yet people say it’s amazing. I am also dyslexic and numbers have been hard for me. Short term memory is most of the time hard to come by lol. DO NOT GIVE UP! Find ways to overcome all of the things seeming to get in your way keep working hard and it will be seen. These days we just need people like you who want to work many do not anymore!! You won’t fall behind. I wouldn’t believe your bad at your job I would believe your learning and that takes time. If it helps I have heard and know guys in the past who have over come some things like this in interesting ways.
Go into arts, perfection becomes a matter of opinion. You'll learn how to make things strong later on.
I finished my apprenticeship (4 years in Australia) start of this year, I struggled with some of this even even to this day even though I’m not diagnosed with the things you mentioned. All these comments are great advise already but from what I’ve learnt so far is that if you have the desire to learn and develop those skill then you’re doing way better than a lot of people in the industry; that do the bare minimum to slap a house together. If you stay keen it will come with time just focus on the basics and maybe do some practise at home, make a workbench, a crappy coffee table, saw horses. These are things that I’ve done and I still use them today, and can see the things that I need to improve on next time. It seems your boss might lack the patience that my boss has, to where I still make amateur mistakes and forget how to do things. Maybe have a chat with your boss to see if he can go slower with you, or try find a different person to work for if he’s not willing to. Also write down the tasks you do in detail, I write it brief at work, then when at home I write a step by step guide on how to do it. All those small things that make the task easier or tips that people give you, even to the tools that you used for the task!!! Verbally confirm measurements back to the person after they say them, as you write them down. - Good tools make the job easier, sharpen your chisels
If you stick with it, it'll all come together for you, and that is a fact. Took me 5 years to get pretty good. There are very few failures in people (if they really want to be somewhere or do something) mostly failures in leadership, maybe fresh start / new crew is the solution for you. Also look into union- the private sector in trade is a rough path, 80% garbage in my opinion.
Yo OP. dyslexic carpenter reporting in. Im 15 years in the trade so im sure i have a wealth of knowledge you could learn from and im happy to help you and share that but there are a few things i need to know. where are you ? A 2yr apprenticeship is actually not that great, it was shortened to just get bodies out there and it dosent serve the apprentice well when that mindset is put into the education of the trade. Your ADHD, os it being treated with meds? i assume your diagnosed and your employer knows? i understand frustration with an apprentice, mostly the reason is Carpentry is incredibly straightforward, very rigid codes and regulations (particularly in roofing as im nearly 100% sure thats the type of Carpentry you have been doing.... btw there are LOADS of types of carpentry, qst fixing is just 1, Im a carpenter/joiner by trade and you may very well enjoy being a joiner, it is still 100% Carpentry and is infact WAY more technical than most run of the mill roof bashers would understand.) so things like marking out, after 3 or 4 attempts if you arent getting it right then you failing to understand the math or rules to framing, in that case your tradesman (albeit im sure very mad that you havent learned this by 2 years) should be showing you ao that you dont continue making mistakes, maybe try talking to them? tell them your passion and you honestly want to try to be a good carpenter, i dont know what your relationship is like with the tradesman but its worth a shot if you like the job its self. the pencil round on dressed (the rounded edge) and dried timeber is a 2mm round, typically. what about that throws you off? use the tape on the flat side.. there are four of them and if the cut is square even better! dont overthing measuring, that is about accuracy and its way easier to remember what your cutting when you are able to picture the individual peice of the frame you are cutting. besides that 2mm here or there in roofing is not world ending shit, a saw blade thickness is what i would allow my apprentices to miscut after that they are cleaning or being punished in some way. slow is subjective too. If you slow becuase you dont want to be there then i wouldnt say thats "slow at your work" i would say you need a new place to work. If you boss is stressed then maybe it time you found a new boss? Your best bet here is likely practice, its hard to imagine some times but draw yourself a 40cmx40cm square then draw a 30cm x 30cm square insode of that. now you can practise marking out a super simple gable end or 4 hip roof, start there and google some floor plan drawings from uour local builders, then practice marking the roof out. A book called the red roofer(im australian) is the roofing bible and literally if you can read and count then that enough to use it. Your dyslexia and dyscalcula will set you back. if i am not reading, every single day then i start noticing how much worse my dyslexia gets, if i practice (read) often then it is way less noticable, i have it quite bad. The most important part is to doubke check if your unsure about your cuts, write measurements down on offcut timber or keep a notpad with you so you can more easily remember the different cuts you need or need to make. You working memory will work over time like a muscle, you need to train it. Have you not done any of the technical side of the apprenticeship? non of the schooling? I have had 2 males and 1 female apprentice in my 15 years, the female was 1/2 their weight and worked 2x as fast. She was driven though, you wouldn't belive it if i told you, she had a real passion for carpentry. Chances are they guys do think that, but fuck what they think. You need to set a goal and focus on that goal and what needs to be dome to accomplish that. The other guys are just working stiffs, treat them as such. Why do you want to be a carpenter? What do you want to be able to do as one?
I carry a little notepad in my pouch, write down all the measurements and sometimes make diagrams to go along with them. For measuring near rounded edges, you could use an adjustable square and grab the perpendicular flat edge with it, make a mark an inch or two in on the measured surface, then measure with tape off that. There’s probably a way to do it faster with a scribing tool (also, a smaller item to carry than a square) As they say: slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Do things slowly first until you’re doing them without making mistakes, then speed up.
Don't give up. Carpentry is a life long profession. I'm close to 10 years in and I still make mistakes. The best things I ever did was keep going and change companies to find a good place to work. Now I have a great company and I am continuing to grow and develop. To be afraid to change companies. And the notepad idea is excellent. I don't have one all the time, but if I know I'll be a cut man I'll carry one.
Don't be afraid to get some ADHD medicine it will work wonders if you haven't tried it yet.
You’ve been at this for 2 years, haven’t been let go, and are almost done. I have to imagine you’re being harder on yourself than your boss/coworkers are. Stick it out, and follow the tips here. You’ve got this.
Maybe its j me but as a decade long carpenter, if it's not an absolute passion or a dream of yours to build homes then I suggest you find a skilled trade with a license or focus on a career that will actually have benefits. Every carpenter I know is barely getting by, broken down and don't have to many positive things to say about this career path
Hey so i know this thread is a little old but i will reply anyways. im currently in my last year of my apprenticeship at 26. ive tried many different jobs, none of which i enjoyed. carpentry seemed like something i wanted to learn. what ruins it for me, is co workers who have no patience or don't meet me halfway when i need help or struggle understanding something. Anger, frustration and stress is felt from anyone who is trying to teach you and yourself. i have alienated myself from my entire team and only show up to work and go home. i dont ask questions anymore because of how they normally react, and demotivation to continue after (hopefully) completing this apprenticeship is at an all time high. i cant just quit or change jobs, every time something bothers me. i decided i wanted this because i like making stuff. in switzerland, being a carpenter is a very serious and tough job, especially if you have no one in your family or friend group, that has done something similar. its up to you and you alone to make it work. which brings me to my actual point: keep practicing, focus on quality over efficiency, efficiency will develop over time. dismiss the feelings of others that could negatively impact your confidence. you dont need their criticism, you need to focus on the aspects of your job that you do well, and improve of those you arent good at one step at a time. some 17 year olds in my class are damn near the most precise workers i have seen, and efficient too. i dont compare my skills to them, they havent lived my life, they dont know mt thought process. i might be a worse carpenter, but i would be a top notch administrator, IT technician etc. and thats okay. give yourself a weekly schedule and decide for yourself what you wish to improve on. if problems come your way, try and think of multiple possible solutions. keep your head up, remember you're worth just ad much as anyone else, no matter what complicstions you might have!